World Class Soloist Augustin Hadelich's Secrets to Practicing | TwoSet Talks | EP. 7

Don't have a very long pinky me too um uh it's yeah it's a that's a it's a hassle it's a freaking big problem yeah you see I'm not the only one it's a big [Music] problem hello everyone welcome to another episode of two set talks and today we have a very special guest his name is Austine hardik if you don't know him he's an ex extraordinary talented incredible viol He's a worldclass soloist travels around the world so if you ever go to a city go check him out AUST things thank you so much for being

here uh it's great to see you thanks for having me on on your podcast yeah nice so I mean I don't even know what should we even talk about today well I mean since it is a uh musical two set talks podcast why don't we begin with uh what did you have for breakfast no just kidding I mean I mean what have you been Up to tell us a little bit are you in the midst of touring right now yeah it's been a pretty uh intense summer actually uh in July I I I I spent

July in the United States like going to a lot of different festivals like Aspen tangle Woods played at the Hollywood Bowl Rabin like all these festivals Veil Colorado now I'm at the Colorado music festival and then and then in August I'll be in Australia and New Zealand so it's sort of nonstop travel in the summer but There a lot of the nice thing about the summer is that the the concerts tend to be in like really beautiful places often uh okay like out out in you know like like Aspen or like you know you're out

in the mountains in the Rocky Mountains or places like that and so uh it's it's really beautiful to to spend time there and make music there although sometimes it's hard to to actually get there so the travel tends to be a little bit more more difficult but um yeah yeah I mean That is true I think that's something we noticed for the first time when we I mean we don't tour anywhere near as much as you do but when we went on our two world tours we realized just how much difference it makes depending what

season you go to the city right so like go to Norway in winter it's just miserable yeah I've learned this the hard way like you know um I was always going to like Minnesota in January and and to Hong Kong Hong Kong in July right Like it's um like I was like I'm doing this wrong wrong dates yeah so true but what's what's your like schedule like when you tour do you is it kind of really back to back or do you have time to kind of do some fun things do some sightseeing anything like

that yeah I I try to um but some some of it especially this summer has been quite back to back and sometimes it's not the same pieces I F so that raises the just The amount of pressure and stress like uh when uh you know at one Festival I was playing proof second and then and but and then sh kovich number one and melon but then also Hillary canceled the concert in Veil that then I also did with be and so so it was like so many so many conos and so that at that point

I'm just uh you know I'm trying to focus and relax and practice and you know enjoy the concerts don't have time to also like hike up the Mountain you know but in the in the past when I've been to ask when yes I went I went for long longer walks and uh normally it's an it's it's a nice thing although maybe not right before the concert because sometimes you know I I don't know you can get like I don't know I don't know if it's heat stroke or if it's just like the exhaustion of hiking

a lot it's it's not maybe good right before you perform yeah yeah yeah I was just going to say um I was just like the repertoire stuff like actually I I I really want to ask you like right now because for those people are listening for context solo is kind of travel and they have bunch of repertoire their sleeves and when they perform all that stuff for like for something like mendleson or like be or anything like how how many coners can you play right now do you know and also how much time do you

need on a notice to play con like hey Austin can you play The beta sh tomorrow like what is it like well I sometimes start especially when I was starting out sometimes your big breaks come as like short notice constellations and then and this a tricky thing to know can you do it or not it's actually way better not to do it than to do it and you know not be ready for it like if you like if if you can handle it then it's great to do and then you have it can be particularly

successful because everyone's already so Great ful that you're there to save the day to do the replacement and people are like yay we have someone who can who can step in but um it's also important when to say I don't think I can handle this so there were some times uh um like there was one time I was asked to play the bear coner on like a very short notice and at the time I had not per I I hadn't looked at it in a long time and I felt like oh no this is going

to be I'm going to be out of my depth you know Then it's better to say no sorry I can't um yeah I mean right now I prob probably the stuff I did this summer is is pretty close to being in my fingers but um it's always a question of kind of getting way getting really back into the piece so it's a little bit like like method acting that I think by thinking only about one piece for like for for a while then I get really into it and then I play it better than if

I um if I'm if I'm just otherwise it's a little bit to the performance feels like it's a little bit so of um distracted almost like I'm I'm thinking about mandalone while I'm performing shov you know that sort of thing so you kind of have to like get really deep into one thing uh I think it's uh is is also important but these are these are mostly pieces that I've played for so long some of them I learned when I was growing up like a long time ago I memorized when I was Like you know

maybe 12 or 14 or 16 or something and so so then getting them ready again is in some ways much faster because like because like they'll be they'll be um pretty uh I don't have to like rememorize them from scratch they're kind of still there it's more of a question of you know maybe sometimes that the old habits like the stuff that like the the fingerings I did when I was when I was 10 I don't want to be doing Those in mandalone because they're all bad but but those are the ones that keep they

keep popping back up Suddenly I find myself doing them I was like what where did that come from you know I haven't done this finger in years Suddenly It's it's back because I think the the childhood memories are like really uh present they're like very easy to access maybe in the brain whereas the fingering I figured out last year is Saved in some other part of the brain that and maybe gets forgotten again right so so so some of some of the work I do is that I've I've written down in my part sort of

the changes that I make and I sort of look at ah okay I changed this and this what are the recent things that I changed to try to uh not fall back into Old Habits which is I think especially Meson that's a piece where that happens to me sometimes because I just played it so much so early on and It's a curse with that piece that often it gets played by Stu by Young students uh which isn't good for mental stone or for the students maybe sometimes that's really funny yeah it's funny right like people

can sometimes call Mendelson a student conter but it really isn't it really is no so much more right it's it's in in the end if you want to play it really well it's actually I think one of the harder concertos I find it's it's really really Diff difficult harder harder than like seus chovsky Boven I mean it's hard to comp in some ways it's hard to compare I mean not no when you look at it technically it shouldn't be right but yeah um on some way it is because in Mone you hear every note when

it's not quite right it's very transparent actually as a piece whereas in chovsky there's like there's a million notes like do people really really like Examine it under microscope like if every single one of them was you know like there there's a lot going on basically and a lot that maybe also doesn't get noticed whereas in mandon I feel like everything has to be totally pristine and perfect and um that and then maybe also then the you know it's there's a psychological component too when when your own expectation for this piece so so high like

it's like and uh that's part of it Too I think if I I actually learned it now as a new piece maybe in some ways would be simpler um to play because it wouldn't be so much uh yes so many memories so many so much baggage in a way right and baggage maybe maybe baggage from recordings to other performances what does everyone else do you know with a piece like that everyone plays it it's all these things don't make it easier actually yeah yeah yeah that's why I Played Mendon Le Lear it I don't have

any baggage in the past and now this one of the hardest con I'm done I I've graduated from B but what do you mean by what does baggage mean to you like is it like you play you're like I remember when I was 12 my teacher yelled at me for my octav being Out Of Tune what does it mean I I don't know if it's that specific but it's more that I mean these Are not like bad memories it's more that sometimes it could even be you know once when I was young I managed to

play this passage really well and but now it's does it feels harder suddenly or it feels different or maybe you can suddenly lose your uh there's a sort of like natural intuitive connection to the music maybe that you that you have when you first learn it and if you play it too much then you kind of lose that a little bit you're like you become you Start to overthink it's like a it doesn't feel natural anymore like how do you find that again you know like that can be a part of that that too that

sometimes you have to sort of like ReDiscover what you liked about the piece in the first place kind of like we revisit it as though it's a fresh piece maybe uh so there's there's a lot of ways in which just playing something for a very very long over many many many years like this can it doesn't doesn't Only make it easier it can can also make it a little bit harder but that can happen I mean it can happen to other pieces too but I I find something like proof second I learned much later and

somehow I feel like uh this prob um have a great time playing it and it's even though objectively I guess in some ways it's more difficult maybe but uh it feels uh the process feels easier somehow mhm compare it perform it I don't know that makes sense I actually I'm curious then cuz you mentioned about like kind of rediscovering pieces after playing so many times which piece have you performed the most this year so far uh oh I'm not totally sure uh huh played so much or is that like a piece that you just like

been playing on repeat well I don't think think I've been playing something like con that I always try I try to have enough variation actually between pieces that I don't get sick of It so that I find that even the great pieces of music after a while if I play the same thing over and over um there's an excitement and inspiration right in switching Rapp so I I try to have some variety I did play a lot of d quto uh like a lot this past season and I love the I love the piece actually

love it more uh I've loved it more over the years I think it's awesome and kind of underappreciated and it's it's a awesome piece but I'm now taking actually a Break from it I'm not playing it this coming season because I played it so much and then then I think it'll be good for for me now I don't played VJ for a while when I play it again um then it'll feel fresh and diffic different again that's with some pieces I I I do that but okay so for let's say I'm hypothetically yeah someone goes

hey can you play dorja show tomorrow can you do it okay I mean if you yeah if you hold The gun to my head I probably um I mean if you say like right now um I don't know I wouldn't want to because like I would say there are things it's a real it's a piece like really hard places like already the the beginning like and the ending of the piece like those are super super difficult and most of it lies well but some suddenly there are things in there that you know some it's dangerous

when a composer actually knows the violin Really well and then they know everything that's possible in theory and then they go a little too far maybe so stuff is really hard so I I would always want to look at it so so I don't know uh tomorrow maybe well in a few days would be it would be okay uh I don't know about tomorrow it would have to De would have to depend but I've been in those situations where it's yeah like like okay the day after tomorrow uh we needs But there was one time

it was zus and one time it was like uh Pro 2 actually my uh my debut at the Hollywood Bowl was Pro two way back when and like okay in two days and then I'm like oh God how does the piece start and like playing you know like um and then play it through and then I sort of think like okay I think I can do it or uh but as I as I said there were a couple of there were a couple of times when I said I think it's better if I don't it

feel it Doesn't feel like I'll be ready and yeah um you don't it's more important not like in a for your career it's more important that uh you don't uh that you don't do something that you're not ready for like like yeah let me say it's it's better to say no than to play a performance that you're um that you really weren't prepared for right and it's it's hard when you have so little time there is not that that much like uh that you can that you can Change fundamentally right it's going you're probably going

to play it more or less how you played it last time and just try to get it in your fingers but you're not gonna like rethink all your fingerings and stuff right like there's not there's no time for that so when it was uh uh I think that that time when I uh got asked to do play back CH now now I play it uh sometimes and it's different because I've spent more time on the Piece but back then um I felt like it's not only had I not done it in a long time but

I also felt like I don't think my background right now is ready to like I'm not happy with it right now I need to plan spend more time on it so you kind of these are the Temptation is there to say yes you know because you you don't because of course all if you say no all you're gonna think about is like oh I could be on this concert stage Right now playing yeah it's like the fear of missing out is like such a it's such a big thing for for everyone yeah yeah I think

people often think about how like just you should say yes to all these opportunities right it's kind of like a very inspirational type of advice say what's what's it to lose uh say yes but there's always like a flip side um to I think it's good advice to know when to say no to something right 100% for sure Yeah because I mean the there a bit different like analogy I I definitely think one is like kind of the consequence of if you say yes and they don't perform well what might that imply but there's also

like sometimes if you say yes to too many opportunities as well you just find you're so busy you can't focus on the few things that are really important right like let's say you have a way more important uh performance coming up that You really should be focusing your time practicing towards but then you also go oh but let me try to learn Burg in two days next week right then you kind of you only have that limited amount of time and resource yes so your yeah your your brain has a limit right so so want

to uh sometime sometime it's better to do fewer things and do them really well than to do try to do too much you have to sort of I agree you have to sort of know okay I want to do this other thing Too but maybe I'll do it next year you know like or I do it some other time um you kind of uh that is that is a better mindset and then you eventually learn your limits uh like how much can you do once so some soloists have uh set very strict limits they're like

okay I got play two or three pieces only each year and I tend to play more pieces than that but it's kind of like you have to sort of figure out when do you feel happy and with your playing and when do you when Do you thrive like what's the what's the limit and if it's there's sometimes a sense if it's too much then you stop having fun you stop somehow the performances can suffer so like that's you have to know when that is and for some people they can play a lot of stuff um

but this you still have a limit of course like there's uh you can't be in every place at once doing it what's the the movie everything everywhere all at once yeah yeah that or if you have a Multiverse then maybe your timelin okay but then let's hypothetically go all right so there is something that you have decided yes I can do it's just at that border of where I think my extreme you know like like the deadline is just achievable but it's kind of makes you a bit nervous what's your kind of goto process or

practice routine when you okay I have three days to get this conuter up I think I can do it but I Have no time to waste how do you approach that type of situation or maybe like at least I have like two months not three days yeah for you might be 3 days M morals that might equit like two months right but what no one year how do I size it up well you sort of have to it's important to have some sort of process or method or kind of like to be organized I think

in your uh I'm I tend to be a pretty organized person like not Necessarily in you know I don't make my bed or something like that I'm not that organized in like uh in everything but it's more like you don't make your bed I shouldn't have said that you cut that off exposed no I mean I'm not like I'm not like you know super organized about everything but um you have to be fairly organized in the practice work to like handle a large volume of stuff because you're sort of like uh you know Especially if

you have to do work on different things parallel to one another and um I think that's a that's an important um aspect of it so if if I have now to prepare something in a couple of days then I mean the different the different sides of it are the how the fingers feel like that it has to that that that the muscle memory has to be second age you have to just like put in enough time practicing the thing and just repetition and you know Um so that that so that that feels good then there's

also like a mental preparation and memorization that I I have sort of a method to like uh it since if I don't have much time to rememorize something how do I make sure that I don't have a memory slip um it tends to be that I that I go through the piece mentally without my left hand moving so what I do is um that I that I sit down at the piano and play the valent part with the right hand at the Pianos because I can't access the left hand muscle memory that way like it's

it's a different it's the other side of the brain or something I don't know how it works but somehow um if I play the piece like that I will get stuck in all the places where I might have a memory slip basically yeah and it's what happens even in with pieces you know very well is that you know of course you know how the themes go but then as soon as this Passage work that's faster you just rying on your fingers knowing where to go and maybe you don't actually know what the notes are like

like Fast passages and that's uh that's sort of how I how I test that and check and like okay what's what are what are these patterns what are these not something like versus sovich where sometimes things seem a little bit random or confusing or you know kind of very um um not predictable right um and that Becomes even more important yeah and uh so that's that's another side and and then kind of yeah and then there's the on the musical side trying to remind myself of what what the piece is about what the what's the

what's the the what's the character what what am I trying to say with it and that's sometimes maybe it can be the thing that takes the longest if I bring back a piece but I feel like it's not quite there yet it doesn't feel Doesn't feel like it has the right character yet it doesn't doesn't have the right sound yet you know like that's um so that ends up maybe then the being the thing that I spent uh the most time on uh maybe but uh I don't know when it's a brand new piece that

I don't know then um then some of this some of this stuff I have to discover so it takes longer um to sort of figure out what I want the piece to be I don't know yeah I just I just want to say that's quite Fascinating I've never heard of that approach of playing on the piano to help you memorize but it makes sense right you're basically saying rather than just having muscle memory as one channel you also want to test your actual ability to um know the music I guess an extreme version of that

would be like can you dictate out the entire score yeah yeah that's that might be too that's a yeah that's a hardcore Method of I I I know yeah sometimes people do that as an exercise you write down the pie but that takes forever that's the thing like you can't do that all the time whereas the thing with the right hand on the piano it doesn't take longer than the than the piece really like you can't just kind of view it that way then you've then you've got like a it's like a backup to the

muscle memory and the thing is once I know that I've done that then I know and I know it's I'm not likely to get lost then I'm also not afraid of the memory slip and if you're not afraid of the memory slip you're less likely to have the memory slip you know cuz like the memory slip happens when you think you might you know it's all psychological right it it's such a um complicated thing but it's it's been really uh that has s i I learned about it from a Pianist who uh would like she

she was really scared of memory slips and so she would practice The right hand with the left hand and the left hand with the right hand she would like reverse it in order to kind of test her memory and that's that's much harder than what I'm suggesting that's crazy that's very hard imagine oh I'll just Yow it I feel like I would be so paranoid that my muscle memory will still k it's like practicing with the wrong fingering on purpose what on the actual conert Yeah yeah that's pretty crazy it's an extreme method okay so

but so you have the kind of muscle memory side to make sure that that's all there then you have the kind of mental memorization and then lastly you focus on kind of the character to know what you want to say with the music I think it's really interesting but I I I guess I want to first ask in the kind of Muscle side are there actual any methods you go about getting there as quick as possible or is It kind of more just like you're all set and you just do a bit of metronome practice

and you're there like what is that look like for you um well I think that's it it's going to be different for for every person a little bit so like for for me a lot of it has evolved to a practice method that's all about kind of like doing a lot in a very little time so like I try to I try to avoid wasting time with things in in my Practice that's let me well let me say it this way when I was when I was younger I would often just kind of play passages

over and over again and then wait for them to get better and maybe eventually they they they do because somehow your subconscious part of your brain like fixes things for you and then eventually that does sound better but it's kind of it takes a long time and some things you can't uh you can't really improve that Way because you haven't really understood like sort of what the what is the problem what what are the the actual problem solving part of the practicing wasn't there enough so when I practice now um you know I I I

play a passage but I I I avoid repeating until I've improved something you know like if if something isn't working I don't just I think it's important to avoid repetitions it's better to First figure out why it's not working why is it Out Of Tune you know is there better fingering that I need to use or what am I doing and then once I fixed it then do a bunch of repetitions and then put it in context and then move on to the next thing so it tends to be like fairy that side of things

sends to be fairly quick because I've sort of figured out over time like what what what does that feel like like cuz I know exactly what we're talking about like repetition and I honestly I still do That today like I make a mistake I'm like yeah just keep doing it try a few more times maybe I'll hit it one one out 100 times but like because I imagine people listening it would just be like well I mean I know in theory I had to like not practice my mistakes but what does it feel like in

the brain like let's say I play a passage and I just clearly there's something wrong maybe I don't know thises it because I need to be aware of My mistakes first and then if once I identify my mistakes how do I then go to be how do I be disciplined enough to go you know what let's try to figure out what's going on okay is it the snow is the Spring Crossing is the phrasing what is it what does it look like for you like how do you do that I mean maybe it's like I

mean maybe I have the sort of Mind anyway that like likes to uh likes sort of as I was asking why you know why is this happening why why is it Not working like what's going on sometimes you know there are some teach to teach in a sort of like uh this sort of mystical way and they they give you some something inspiring to think about and then suddenly it sounds better that always frustrated me you've had a few lessons like we've all had a few like just imagine bethoven suffering in your soul like my

suffering is I can't play so well so I I found that kind of Frustrating because I um I was like no I okay it sounds better but why like I need to know like what what what was different what did I do differently and so that's kind of already the mind the mindset so that the so when I'm playing something um I tend to be like really I I think it's very important to listen to yourself very closely even if that's frustrating like okay you hear a lot of stuff maybe that you don't like or

you know you know that you want to be better And then that's the that frustration uh you can Channel it positively by by by using that to then to then work and like ask okay why is it not working and okay I'm missing this shift why am I missing this shift okay maybe maybe it's a bad fingering maybe I haven't practiced the shift enough times that can also happen or like maybe uh the motion isn't smooth enough or you know there there's often like that can be multiple reasons so like you have to Sort of

figure uh figure out try different try different things there's not all like an answer that pops into your head you know like it's not always like ah this is it it's like could this be it could that be it you have to sort of like you have to you have to be be searching until you until uh but if you do that for a while uh you find oh now it sounds a bit better yeah okay and then now you've made progress now okay now you repeat it a couple of times to Like save that

progress kind so to speak and if you if you do that over and over day after day year after year uh you know you you you sort of like accumulate um uh your Tech the level of your Technique sort of like accumulates and grows because um you've solved so many tiny little problems that eventually the whole starts to emerge as being sounding pretty good but still uh there is even after all these all these years you Still have to keep it's keep keep added with the with the problem solving I guess I love that you

mentioned like practice a lot of practice is problem solving because people don't really say that right but like there's a very kind of mental it's almost like a game like a challenge that you're trying to figure out uh to me the the kind of imagery I'm almost seeing when when you describe this is like like a precise Precision like doctor trying to make the correct Diagnosis of a situation before giving the right treatment right it's like okay you don't just patient comes in you just keep treating with whatever until hoping they get better you actually

okay well let's maybe I think my blood test or do some scans or whatever until you figure out exactly what is causing the root cause of the issue I mean that kind of that's kind of the feeling I'm getting but then my question is like I feel like then for me Sometimes it almost sounds like the the the speed in which you can correctly solve problems then becomes almost a determining factor in how quickly your practice can improve you right because sometimes I might yeah know that I sound crap but I'm just trying to figure

out like is it my arm angles my bow contact is it my first joint knuckle is it my neck and and then I kind of like just it's I know the problem is there but then I'm trying to come with all These hypothesis of what could be this issue but that sometimes it takes a long time and I don't I guess there's there's something to be said like maybe in case like that you you seek guidance you look for a teacher that could help you or like a friend but I'm curious to hear what your

thoughts on that sometimes I'm just like am I dumb am I just not it it's not to be I think it's normal I think it's normal to hit the wall Sometimes you know like like that and you're like uh and and I said the solutions don't just pop into your head you're like could it be this could it be that just like as you as you say like that you're searching maybe for a while like you're trying to figure out why it's not working and then and I think that's okay you can't you have to

be patient with that and keep going because like eventually you might finally think of the thing maybe it ends up being Something really obvious you're like oh my God why didn't I think of that you know or like um but um uh teachers can of course help with this because with their experience they might have seen the issue before so maybe the right teachers looks at you and it's like yeah I know exactly what this is you're doing this with your B arm and it's affecting your sound or you're um yeah you're pressing too hard

with your finger what whatever it is I don't know uh then they Might diagnose it very fast and it's like a shortcut to get there like that's that suddenly uh you have the solution but it can also often happen that the teacher is also not sure like then they're like you know they can they can sort of help you with your they can help suggest or maybe it's this maybe it's that and they can give you things to practice on and uh but when you when you're teaching you don't always know exactly um uh what's

uh what the student Should should do you can suggest things and with the more experience you have the more things you think of that might help and and and you know some things that always help like you mean you know like um like P if you get if you always get stuck in a passage if you practice it slowly that's something that tends to generally help in most cases like it's never a bad idea or you know like just that kind of looking slowing things down Looking at at the shapes you're making um but I

find often that the question of why is this happening that many players uh many young players just kind of like don't ask that yeah um and they kind of like um waiting for it to get better and then maybe wait for the teacher to say something but it that is you're you're ultimately everything you're going to improve you have to improve yourself under violin like nobody nobody's gonna play it for you right uh so it it is up It is up to you so this question is kind of the most essential and and the the

the the more years you spend practicing and asking these questions you uh you do see the same problems pop up over and over So eventually you actually know a lot of the answers it's like okay that was Out Of Tune and I know exactly why it's because that finger is flat because you know I mean one of the things that happens for example is that the hand pretty much always wants to be like in This kind of relaxed shape so whenever you're trying to like whenever you have to like stretch things in a way that's

that's different with your whole steps and half steps the fingers tend to be out of tune in the direction of sort of like even even space that's that's that's it's often a thing that especially when you're when you're shifting into a position that the fingers are just going to be sharp or flat based on where the hand naturally Actually kind of wants to be and sort of like getting your hand used to the hand to the shape you have to you have to make in each in each position and sort of being clear okay here

you have to stretch like this and then you have to stretch like this and what that that is part of kind of this this diagnostic that sometimes explains so when I'm practiceing and some's Out Of Tune I you I often uh know right away what it is it's Like oh yeah well that note always wants to be sharp so you know got to remember now it's okay so it's almost like imagine like over years with experience you can have a mental checklist of the possible causes of different problems right so let's say it's an ination

problem there's a tone problems it might be like legado connection tone like different types of problems and with each one you go okay so let's say Ination one of the pro possible problemes the tendency for fingers to want to revert to even spacing and so you just kind of build this arsenal of testing tools maybe in your mind what' you say yeah yeah yeah I think I think you sort of uh there are the sort of the your the the things you the questions you ask you ask first because they they pop up so often

right that you're just like okay so this is a this kind of I Mean maybe you don't even need to ask the question you just recognize uh you just you just know exactly what you what you screwed up eventually because it's such a familiar issue already uh but then if something if something new happens it's like oh I'm not sure why this isn't sound sounding well or why am I having trouble with this sometimes physically you know when you get older uh it's also like you have to sometimes relearn different Aspects of your Technique and

that's something where then you're you end up encountering new questions I mean one thing that I started doing when I maybe when I was around 30 uh or in my late 20s is that I stopped moving my fingers quite so much I think it's because I when I was growing up I played a lot of piano and on the piano every note you play you move your finger right but on the violin it doesn't it's not supposed to work That way I mean the the lower notes you can often keep pressed like your your first

second and second finger sometimes they can stay for a while or it can be on multiple strings at once you know um I wasn't really playing like that so uh the first finger particularly always came up constantly and it was putting a lot of strain on my hand and then I started to try to be a little bit more efficient and basically move my move those fingers less sometimes leave them Pressed for a while and um that was something that's it took quite a while to build this habit because it's so ingrained these things it's

like Sub sub subconscious it's second nature that that the fingers always move away from the string once you're done with the note um but when it when it finally uh when this new habit finally became ingrained uh I found it's actually it's more consistent we should try that too so uh it's easier to play In tune sometimes because you put the finger down once and when you come back I have that bad habit I always like one two I already lifted it up did you see that I just like unconscious I just want to lift

it up it's so annoying and I know you have to try and be efficient right so maybe that's s can try practice actually it was funny I was just thinking just that like orust has like a whole MRI scanner and like all these diagnostic tools and I just have like a Mirror that's what it feels like you know like AUST August Dan like spent so much time like building these mental tools to assess any situation well yeah well I want to sorry I want to know like so when you do have a new so Nery

about this I'm so curious like I want to know CU I feel actually ask do you know your mbti your personality mbti there's 16 personalities oh [ __ ] yeah do you know do you know it oh no do I want to know oh no it's probably like it's probably Uh super over perfectionist nerd I don't know I don't know um no it's it's uh you should do it you should Al I think you should do it I I already have my predictions yeah I'll send it to you I was going to send to you

right now I feel like might be an inj um maybe anj I think inj but um it's basically a system personality where there's like four kind of different components that make up someone's personality and so the first component Is like whether you're an introvert or an extrovert whether you gain energy by being with others or not the second one is whether you're kind of a more sensing this is really interesting I think you might find so the second pillar is to do with how one's mind takes in information from the world and so some people

lean more towards the side of sensing so they're very much in their senses and so they perceive the World very like it's almost very through the five senses right whereas intuitive people of course we still have our perceptions but we kind of perceive more through kind of intuition and abstraction and then we kind of live more in a world of like theories and mental models and then the third one's about with the information you get how do you then make judgments so some people arrive to judgments very much based off how they Feel about some

the information they received and others tend to make judgments more based on kind of logically what they think is factual or whatever right and then the last one is p&j which is basically PE uh Jays like to make judgments earlier on based off the information they get and they stick to it until something breaks that whereas P's tend to want to delay having to make that judgment until the last possible Moment so that typically manifests itself in people Jay's like to plan and organized whereas P's are very um spontaneous and fluid type of thing you

should do it it's a really interesting test yes yeah and so that that makes 16 personality combinations yeah I can see um yeah I'm definitely more the person who's uh who tends to be more organized and then like you know tries to tries to decide and um yeah I don't I don't think I'm an introvert like I've always really Loved being around people and I sort of like uh get energy from for talking with people then it's sort of like my my mood picks up I sort of feel uh feel energized uh so I'm not

necessarily someone who like has to be around people constantly you know like some people feel lonely as soon as they're not talking to someone like I'm perfectly fine being on my own but like I feel like my mood picks up When I'm around people I think it's it's one thing that I enjoy about chaming music or when I when I when I travel around when I'm playing with when I'm playing with others that it feels so social I I um I have a slightly like when I'm traveling all by myself and then I also am

playing solo recital then sometimes that feels a little lonely like you know uh that's like it's I mean it it's great repertoire it's very rewarding and so Forth But like after a few days I'm like oh I miss the I mean I meet people all the time but you know what I mean like to sort of you have you feel like you have a deeper connection when you play when you play music with with with people then it's is a more intense I'm so curious I know what you should do it let us knowest let

us um but yeah I don't know just the way you kind of think about analyzing but I I did want to ask I'm so curious so when You do encounter the new question like how do you it's that okay I've never seen this I'm looking at X-Ray Scan I have no idea what I'm looking at like what do you do do you kind of just start tinkering experimenting do you look for answers elsewhere you know how does that kind of yes okay so I had this I had this experience where I was um learning the

valin contructor by Thomas Addis which is uh unbelievably difficult he he wrote it in 2005 and it had been played by other people but I think that was an example where everyone found sort of their own weird Solutions because the difficulty was so extreme and what what I found so crazy was at one point I had to play incredibly High really with all four fingers but it's so high up that I had to take my thumb off basically interesting I can no longer have that as an orientation and because I don't have a very long

pinky me too Um uh it's yeah it's a that's a it's a hassle it's a freaking big problem yeah you I'm not the only one it's a big problem it's like I I was jealous when people's pinkies are as long as they're as their third finger unfair UNF but so the problem is once I'm up once I'm up there I can I can reach no problem with the second and third finger but not with the fourth finger so I had to take the thumb off and that was it Felt so scary it felt like sort

of free climbing not that I've ever done that you know so I don't know what that feels like but I imagine free climbing a mountain without any ropes you know like that's sort of like you have a feeling that you're gonna you could slip off you could fall off um that was kind of terrifying and then yeah but in the end though I found once I performed that so the first time I performed I was really scared about that passage but then in The end I figured out it's not really that much harder than a

lot of other stuff you do on the violin it's just like I had I never had to do that before and I know some violinists with very really small hands who actually have to take the thumb off quite frequently and they play without any problem so it uh it's kind of like when you when you encounter a problem that you just haven't seen before and it can feel like totally insurmountable but then and in The end maybe it actually isn't even that difficult it was just something something that's totally different from the from the challenges

you had before you know uh it's not maybe it won't be useful in any other piece because in every other piece that I play there's probably some other fingering that gets around that that way I can leave the thumb still uh so it's only for this piece that I I definitely have that issue Especially this sort of Pinky like I know exactly what you mean as you go up the second third finger are fine so I always replace my fourth finger with a third of third finger like it's just easier and sometimes un unless I'm

forced I just I don't like it I'm forced I'm like oh I have to come all the way around yeah yeah yeah it's a it's not it's not a good feeling um to and so some people have like this Sort of like pinky extension it feels like they can just like and so there there are sometimes fingerings in the parts uh when you buy music by some I feel like franchis cotti fingerings always like this in the international Edition that he has he puts a lot on the fourth finger and he must have had a

long fourth finger because like all those fingerings are super uncomfortable to me I don't think they're they don't work for everyone surer I feel like that Could be a whole another podcast next time just talking about fingering decisions oh we should do that next time'll be crazy there'll be like super like deep fingering positions there was so much okay we should take take a like a 180 turn um off the camera you're saying that you love cuz you fly a lot right you tour a lot you you travel so much we travel a lot but

no one near as you much as you um so when we fly we get points flight flight points what is that Like because I I I Ed myself we definitely need tips because I feel like we're using our points in the worst possible yeah so yes but I think because I because I sort of like uh strategy games and I sort of like approached it that way that um I think if you think of it like it's a very complicated strategy game that's totally rigged against you like it's the rules are made in such a

way that you're not meant to get good Value for your miles for your L miles but if you are really clever about it and and plan ahead and are really like methodical about about it you can you can get pretty pretty good miles but it's uh so it became a bit of a hobby just because I was flying so much and I was accumulating miles I had trouble using them well and then I was and then I got like really into this points game as they call it and um sometimes I remember one time I

was uh I had a trip To Hong Kong so I was like I I set a uh I set an alarm clock for uh precisely uh 300 31 days before my flight day when it was midnight Hong Kong time because I knew that then there award seats on CA Pacific would come online and I could book it like right right there but other people were the thing is like they they released two seats at that time it's everything has changed since then but like the line was Releasing two seats right at at at midnight always

and and there there's probably someone else who's doing the same thing who's also trying to click and get this award seat and the pro my problem is I had very specific days that I needed to fly like I I'm going to fly there because of the when the concert is so so it's like I need to get it for this did you get it and yes I sometimes I had some success stories but also you have some some Stuff uh that don't work out some dreams are Dash you know in the points game it's uh

how do you get started like someone like like I'm just I see points there but then I'm like we did a whole world tour I even get is one upgrade yeah one up or like sometimes only one because the flights too long or like if it's a short FL then we get one upgrade then it's all gone points are gone okay I I guess it's it depends a Little bit on what airline you are crediting the points to because some Airlines have programs that are much more rewarding than others and then you can there are

some websites where they sort of like discuss the pro PR and cons and try to put valuations on those points they're like well these points we think are worth two $2 per mile or maybe these points are only worth one cent per mile or something and that can be a way to at least assign a value to them but That's not very exact because sometimes when you uh some of them uh some awards might be overpriced or you can there are some good deals you can you can get as well and so it depends a

little bit on where you actually want to fly later like with your points and so it's there's a lot to con there's a lot to consider but I think it sort of Brotherly starts with researching the different programs and which one is actually the most rewarding One because it sounds like uh it sounds like the one that you credit that your points to just isn't isn't giving you enough for for your trouble for your miles uh and so some are more rewarding than others or have certain upgrade rules that are better in games there's a

term like the current meta you know the term is a current meta for points like this is the optimal Airline well it's funny that's a really funny way of putting it yeah there there Were times when uh for when some airline miles were giving sort of an a ridiculous amount of value and then but then the airline realizes it and then they sort of like ra their price nerfed it they nerfed it and so they Nerf it yeah so there were times there were times when American airlin miles like they were really some of the

First Class Awards were like really cheap for some reason and but then they eventually they raised the prices Or this has has happened and in general it there sort of some inflation going on because they're they're handing out everyone's constantly running miles so the amount of miles in total is is probably increasing plus people are getting miles for their credit cards and for all kinds of things and so at regular intervals the the value of the miles is actually decreasing so I think one rule is you shouldn't sit on your miles for too long you

should try you Should try to use them before too long because it's just like having cash in your bank like eventually like the value it's worth less right it's like it's all rigged against you they need someone needs to begin um miles investment like freaking calculator yeah fun something like if I don't use my miles now I put it into this fund it gives a 5% mile return perom oh I wish I wish that no no that's it's not it it really is um I mean there Wouldn't be running these programs if they if it

wasn't good for the L right it's good for the L cuz makes a lot of people then buy more expensive tickets on that Airline so they earn those miles but ultimately the airline doesn't give you that much for it so they they're they're not they're not losing that much from it so it's but because I'm kind of like a I've always been sort of a strategy game person like a board game uh into into board games into like Strategy video games like Starcraft and so then I I sort of like was like I bet I

can figure out the the rues and there's a whole Community online of people who who try to uh figure out ways how to get more value and some things they keep secret you know because like if you if you talk about it it's done then the airlines will change their rules you know if yeah so um there's a whole uh uh it's like a whole Subculture so funny imagine every runs online forums and use and there was a points hacker 101 you say play ball games what ball games do you play cuz we play a

little bit sometimes we have board game nights uh yeah I used to have a lot really regular board game nights now nowadays I don't get to do them as much but the board games that I like most I guess the kind of like more in depth longer strategy Games um like agrea Burna these kinds of games uh there was one called chlen which was I thought really awesome like very complicated uh I've played Settlers of Katan also a a classic uh there there a lot of I think the board games that I like are the

ones that are not too much luck based like if everything is determined by D Dr roll then I'm less interested somehow but I want to feel like uh you know I struggled and Overcame you know some my opponent with uh with strategy and um and like yeah I gu really I'm I wouldn't say I'm that always that good at some games I'm good at but most of them I don't know Starcraft for example I'm actually not very good at Starcraft but I still just love love the game uh so it's sometimes uh even if I'm

losing I can I can still have a very good time if I feel like I'm learning something I'm I'm I'm figuring out my strategy for the next game yeah and and that can be uh and there's and there's also like a it can be fun to see people play strategy games really well yeah um I mean lately have been getting really into watching chess games you know and when you watch like uh in incredible chess players and how just amazing their their their moves are and and so that's can be even yeah like like marus

Carson Of course like the greatest but so then I uh even though I I could never play like that you know but sort of like it's really fun to see that somehow like to see someone uh play play so well it's somehow really thrilling honestly it's very it's so inspiring right to see someone do the house that even possible yeah yeah kind of like us when we watch you play volin like like so many recordings on I'm like how's that possible how's that and it's Not just that it's like you listen to him you you

know that's pretty good you listen to it like hang on whoa you know like you switch it on a bit and he like whoa how's that even possible yeah but yeah I know what you mean though like the games games are just for me actually do would you consider Katan more strategy or more luck s Katan um I think Katan is it does have a luck uh I think element it's pretty pretty strong Because even like sort of how you start the game off like there's a lot out of your control there are other games

that are much more I mean they should always be a Randomness Factor so that the game is not the same every time you don't want it to be repetitive so something like caverna is good in the sense that uh you there are certain cards that will be shuffled differently so like the ones the options you have of things of these tiles to take are different in each game But still uh when you start off um everyone has probably an even chance to win and in the best games even if you're way behind you should still

have some hope like I think I don't I I don't like games where um I think it's sign of a bad game when um you're just completely screwed because you made a made a mistake on the second this game are so late you did the wrong thing that's it can't win forget it and now You have to suffer through hours that's a sign of a bad board game yeah you just sitting there like okay I'm lost it's like Monopoly once one person ears like half the land it's just a slow drip that one person yeah

that's not yeah exactly that's that's actually not uh I wouldn't say that's I mean it's a famous board game and it's fun but I wouldn't say it's a great board game for that reason because it's not it doesn't have this kind of exciting comeback Potential like it should be that you're you're struggling and and you're behind but but if you think of just the right thing and do the right you have a chance to catch up and maybe you'll get it can sometimes maybe you you know you're not going to win but maybe you can

get second place you know out of four players or maybe or you or like how many points can I still get like maybe I can still or maybe maybe you're really mad at one player and like okay I can't win Now but them up but I hate those players I like come on bro you're not even doing this to win you're just trying to screw me over we should play some ball games next time in the same city yeah absolutely yeah that'll be fun I'll be so fun I want to Trav those other b games

that yeah be so cool yeah cool I mean I'm keeping an eye on time I think we got to wrap things up but um what should we say anything else We want to share with the audience listening in today yeah I don't know I guess um that was super fun thank you so much taking time to chat with us uh yeah is there anything like a passing ending thought that you want to share with everyone watching today's podcast episode oh uh oh [ __ ] disclaimer we did not give him any going to okay so

think of something really wise and wi and [Laughter] Inspiring I don't know I mean I think that having a kind of I think that's having a sort of playful approach to uh to like to many aspects of life I think it's it's really it's really healthy so some I think one of the reasons why I like playing why I play games in my free time where I like strategy games it's not only because it's a challenge or it's not only because oh it's good for my brain it's it's not really that it's more that I

find this sort of playful Approach is kind of a healthy approach also when when I'm and I think it does it does actually apply to violin playing or it applies to many other aspects uh in life where you have to be sort of uh where you where you have to make strategic decisions or where you um that you can't uh yeah you can't be I don't I don't know what I'm trying to say you can't be too hard on yourself like for each decision you there has to be sort Of like um maybe a playful

approach I don't know if that's if that's so good you can cut that out and and and splice something something more interesting funny that's funny that if we just leave it in like yeah you know what that's probably not the best don't worry this is a playful podcast nothing serious here um but I think okay but like I I feel like if anyone's you know if you're wherever you guys are tuning in and or things coming to your SE definitely go Check check out the concerts right and do do you have like an album coming

up or anything like record concerts yes right I'm supposed to plug you're supposed to plug it that's the whole point of this podcast supposed to yeah yeah okay so um yeah so I do have an album coming out um at the end of August and it's called American road trip and uh uh it's been 20 years that I came to America and I've been living here for 20 years and So I decided to finally record an American album with Orion Weiss on the piano and it's a lot of it's a lot of wonderful pieces of

with many many different styles I think that um the amazing thing about American music is that there isn't like one style of American music there's like all kinds of totally different compos ERS from like avangard composers to uh romantic Romantics and minimalists and composers who write Jazzy or music or that's There's one piece that's inspired by Jimmy Hendrick or you know there's like all sorts of it's such a Melting Pot right and that's that part of what I was trying to make this album um is that it feels like you know sort of going on

a road trip through America and seeing sort of all the different styles of music and I had a great time especially with some of the with some of the country music and uh or jazzy music um I think that's it's uh uh that was yeah That was really fun for me I think especially lately I've been getting really into country and uh blueg grass playing because I feel like it's actually uh this is It's a style of music that's like really asking to be played by classical players because it's it's it suits the instrument so

well it's actually easy to get into too and um and there's so much good music out there so um anyway that's the that's a new album it's coming wait yeah I can't Wait I want to hear it okay my hands on one yeah cool all right man um thanks so much for being on this uh podcast and I hope we can meet again sometime soon I don't know when's the next time we'll do our round two over Bard games yeah round two over Bard games the round two podcast will just be a stream of us

screwing you over on Katan but there are some some board games you can play online and act it's Actually it's pretty nice because you don't have to like you know how there's a lot of preparation for board games and a lot of cleanup at the end so when you play the online versions you don't have any of that so you can actually play way more matches than best time and so uh for example Seven Wonders is awesome play online today yeah online too I always go for the University route the the you know the academic

Point ah yes Yes Expos Expos oh and do your do your uh mbti test and S I'll send you a proper link yeah that be so okay I will okay all right cool awesome yes all thanks everyone who's watching okay well it's great to see you guys thank you thank you and thanks everyone for watching see you guys next time bye bye thanks bye back