best-selling author and social researcher her name is Brittany Brown she burst into public consciousness with her TED talk in 2010 the power of vulnerability remains the site's fourth most popular talk listen to this it has 36 million views Wow today Brene brown is busy juggling consulting and speaking events at fortune 500 companies including IBM Disney and Google her new book focuses on how each of us can cultivate effective leadership it's called dare to leave brave work tough conversations whole hearts Rene Brown joins us once again first on CBS morning to talk about her latest book
it's always good to have you at the table brené Brown good morning it is it isn't a masterpiece just the fact that you've had 36 million views he says to me that people are very open to finding out more about this but I know very few bosses and leaders that think it's okay to show vulnerability but you say you can't be you can't have courage without vulnerability what do you mean you know it was interesting because I used to spend a lot of time led go into these companies kind of evangelizing about vulnerability it's important
then one day I found myself on a military base talking to Special Forces and I just asked a simple question give me an example of courage that you've seen or witnessed in your life or that you know you've done yourself that didn't require uncertainty risk and emotional exposure which is the definition of vulnerability give me a single example of courage that did not require that and there was just silence until one guy just raised his hand and said three tours ma'am there is no courage without vulnerability and so now I just ask audiences that simple
question give me an example of courage that doesn't require uncertainty risk and emotional exposure you say most people think of courage as a personality trait not a skill you say it's a skill it's a skill set I mean we've been studying it for I've been doing this work for 20 years the last seven years really looking at courage and leadership specifically for skillsets can you rumble with vulnerability can you stay in tough things when they get uncomfortable and awkward or do you tap out gieux and this is a hard one living into your values are
you clear about what your values are and have you operationalize those in behaviors do you know what behaviors support your values what don't three breathing trusts can you build trust and be trustworthy and the last one which I think was really interesting was learning how to get back up learning how to rise because we found that people are more willing to be courageous upfront if they know how to rise yeah I mean that's why I'm sorry John that's what I called this a masterpiece because to just sum up everything and then you write courage is
contagious to scale daring leadership and build courage in teams and organizations we have to cultivate a culture in which brave work tough conversations whole hearts the expectation in armor is not unnecessary or rewarded that's the thing because people want to know how do we scale this type of behavior yeah courage is incredibly contagious as is fear as we can see in the world as is scarcity and so courage is contagious and we can teach it we can learn it we can measure it and we have to create cultures we're being armored all the time is
not rewarded behavior so first of all as a disciple of the gifts of imperfect parenting I have now let's move on and I don't I hate to get a political but one of the best leaders we have right now who has totally reformed a political party in His image who's gotten two people on the Supreme Court and and achieved other things so thinks showing vulnerability is the key to loss not showing vulnerability is in fact one of his signature traits so that seems to be the opposite of what you're saying yeah and I think so
that's why I'm glad we went there because here's the thing John goes there yeah John goes hey I'll go with you John you can absolutely get away I mean you can you can get masses of people behind you if you do two things if you weaponize uncertainty if you take people who are in uncertainty and and guarantee them certainty and then give people someone to blame for their pain mm-hmm I mean you can you can do anything you want yeah the problem with that is that fear has a short shelf life and you cannot do
that for very long the question is always what kind of damage are you gonna do while you're able to do that but I do not I have seen no evidence and I'm reading Doris Kearns Goodwin right now so she's leadership I don't think that's sustainable let me ask you this I'm a leader in whatever I'm doing in my life how do I be more vulnerable if I want to try and access this trait that is so important so vulnerability is not disclosure so let's like that's the big mythology right it's not like I know a
lot of leaders who show up and just everything that has nothing to do with courage or vulnerability vulnerability is can you manage uncertainty and risk an emotional exposure can you stay in the hard conversation can you tell the truth can you give feedback when it's hard can you ask for feedback when it's hard bonor ability is I believe and it's probably 60% of the book the only path to courage and it is the birthplace of innovation creativity trust empathy I love it when people call and say hey can you come talk to our company Brene
we'd love to have you speak just don't mention like vulnerability you hope that people that read this book it will result in one behavior change for leaders that they should read it cover-to-cover on a flight one behavior change that you think all leaders need is what it's gonna be simple clear is kind unclear is unkind stop stop avoiding the tough conversations because you think you're being polite are kinds of people that's not kind right they're great everything you say it's so you're Renee brown thank you so much thank you all very nice
