Jordan Stephens On Social Anxiety, Body Dysmorphia And ADHD | Fearne Cotton's Happy Place

We've got so much to catch up on oh no i don't know where to start [Laughter] i don't know either i suppose i don't know either yes well where we could start is right at the beginning where i met you which was really fortuitous and strange and not how people would expect are we gonna do oh so we're gonna are we gonna Lay the ground why not with with uh yeah why not so i know your godfather yes right who is the most wonderful man and he's one of the people in life that i don't

see enough and i text saying oh we should have a coffee and then it never happens i feel really [ __ ] about that don't i love ray doing he's fine he's fine he's lovely so he's your godfather i'm not he's a photographer i was working with him one time and he said You are going to love my god son's music and i was thinking oh god yeah yeah yeah yeah i don't want to listen to this what if it's awful what do i do and i watched the video of you in rizzle kicks and

was like who the hell are these two they're amazing this is so fun this is what we need at the moment and then i think literally a week later i was playing it on the radio yeah mad it was one of those what's it called serendipity yeah yeah synchronicity Because we had fortunately we had everything we had all the artillery ready for that moment but it was fortunate you know and but i i i want to credit myself and harley for we did have this kind of year we didn't go to uni we we decided

to have our gap year as a a grind gap year we were just going for it and um yeah we emailed we wrung everybody Everybody we knew in london to do with music you know i mean i would play it to them ray was more in touch than that of course so when he heard us doing music he was really into it but yeah we had managed to do enough promo-ing and website development and and we'd made this music video with my friend toby um so when you heard it we were ready because you said

i think it was one of your producers who got in touch with me Actually had fortunately that just established the infrastructure to be able to act on it which was amazing and because of that i mean our life changed because you did that you put us as a record of the week maybe it was the month then no week it was a week yeah a week yeah um and then and it was we i remember it so clearly you know we were in the charts at that point at 144 that was what we were doing

with all of our little groundwork you know because That's probably quite a good result actually amazingly yeah and then it was july 2011 and the end of that month we were number eight i remember and that was it wow captain america captain cotton yeah but you know i'm i've been i was very lucky at that point in my career that i had any sway on anything and i'm only ever a tiny part of that like you say that whole journey but it's a beautiful thing i loved being able to do that that was the Best

part that was the job for me going oh my god this person's amazing this band was brilliant whatever but if the song's crap and it doesn't resonate it doesn't matter what i'm doing i mean it has to connect with people and what you were doing and that sort of fun and levity that you brought yeah just people just loved it it was infectious and it carried you onto this like amazing ever-changing career journey that you're still on i'm Still on it's ever undulating and moving and changing and you've done so much since then i mean

more recently you've done some sublime acting which little bits yeah but some amazing things star wars and like very very cool parts yeah yeah yeah no the acting thing was a actual mistake um which is cool i think that will maybe infuriate all actors listening um yes because it's the work it is it's The of all that i've i've i am someone who feels obliged to express themselves in kind of any medium that's i've got to this point you know kind of 10 years in where i have to just accept the fact that i like

doing loads of different things i envy those who can focus on one thing but then i speak to people who focus on one thing and they talk about yeah yeah yeah um and so yeah so uh I try my hand at anything but of all the industries i've i've been in or worked in at all i'd say acting is the most savage really yeah i'd say i'd say the acting world is is pretty horrendous actually in terms of self-esteem or i think i think so so just to explain the accident side of it i i

i as i began acting because um actually me and harley got me harley by the way is an incredible actor he's Taking his time but he's gonna be i'm very confident about even if it's something i write like he or he writes he's very talented but he um he'd been battling he's been battling with anxiety but i'm sure we'll talk about that at some point but um we both got meetings because we had done well and we'd been in the line we were in the public eye so we got these kind of meetings do you

want to do any work In acting i actually said no i said to my agent i don't want to act i would love to write and direct one day um harley's the actor you know and then uh but because i was so mouthy in interviews i got given this wild card audition for a show called glue written by jack thorne who's now one of the greatest british screenwriters there is he he wrote the Harry potter play he wrote um he's collaborated with shane meadows he wrote on skins this is england anyway he's and his dot

materials i just i'm obsessed i love him um but yeah so i read the script and thought it'd be rude for me not to audition and i just happen to be the character let me just i need to explain this i just happened to be at that time a [ __ ] mess the character was a [ __ ] mess and it just synced up i don't know how to audition i Don't know how to do anything i tried to audition and tried to get naked because that was in the script and the guy was

like please please keep your clothes on but they were like he's fantastic jeremy because that would have been something different i turned up late i didn't i didn't have i was always the way when you go really wanting something and trying too hard yeah it never works out and that's what i mean about it being savage with acting Actors will will say that well we'll they'll clarify this it's they can these people can sense desperation it's unattractive yes i i had that experience once youngs ago this is when i was in my early 20s and

i'd been i don't know i was doing probably top of the pops or something at the time and um itv were like oh we really want you to audition for love island which was a Very different concept the one that is on the television today it was like celebrities and whatever it was in fiji and i was like oh i don't know if it's very me so i went i think i'd had two hours sleep i was hungover maybe still even a bit drunk to be fair and i was just a bit like whatever in

the meeting like yeah they're like what do you think you could offer i was like I'm just sort of whatever and i got the job but then since then after that i was like professional yes i was wearing my propeller i'd slept for 12 hours didn't get a bloody sausage it's ridiculous it's mental i know it doesn't make any sense and it still it still continues it's an energy thing it's an attention field thing but it's that interesting because it's even the same with dynamics with partners friends that when you have Someone who's saying eager

and overbearing you're like oh no but when someone's a little bit not even stand official call but just their energy is more contained you're like oh my god i'm quite curious about this yeah you're drawn to it i'm not very good at doing that i know i think the sweet spot i think i think the sweet spot is is preparation and then and then and then surrender letting go i think It probably takes years to master yeah but i think like it would be stupid to be because i had a phase where i think i

consciously tried to under prepare that also doesn't work acting like you're under pressure yeah i won because i once got uh well yes it's a cat to carry on that basically i i got grilled an audition for glue i got like five five recalls which isn't normal so i was chemistry tested a lot Because it wasn't like let's shove this little pop star into the show it was like can this pop star act and um i got the part so which was crazy and then since then i feel like i've just been falling forwards i've

been i've had i lived with one of the the main actors in the show he ended up living with me after we did glue and i saw his kind of thing with acting and i kind of accepted that there's a whole other level he's called billy howell he's an incredible Actor and will be huge but i just you know the way he was i don't know engaging with it there's it's it's it's lethal because as an actor you're constantly employed and unemployed yeah there's no control there's no there's no or there's no reaction there's no

reactivity so for me with music or writing uh or books or whatever it is if i feel a pushback i actually have it Within my power to do something about it yeah with enacting if you if you get to the last two three or don't get anything or whatever else you don't get it you have to wait i hate that that's why actors go listen actors can be some of the wildest people you'll ever meet in your life because they got all this off time and that's also why i think actors end up with actors

but yeah i there's bits of my career that i think Mimicked that where i was solely tv presenting and every january i'd [ __ ] myself because there'd be nothing in my diary for 12 months and i would just have to wait hence why i now don't do any of that and i've tried to create something where there's more control and i feel like you know we're very similar in the fact that we're probably not very good at sitting back and waiting so you know that having a creative endeavor is really key To staying feeling

good and you've branched off into all these areas not content with just doing the music thing or just waiting around for acting jobs and auditions you're doing solo music now which you know i've loved yeah that's so cool brilliant but also now this gorgeous book that lies on my desk here the missing piece which is so beautiful and i text you the other day because I read it to my kids the other night and you were like what you're reading it to your kids this is i didn't know that this was going to happen and

it's like this is what's going to happen now loads of families will read i think you actually might be the first parent ever to read that book to their children that's wild isn't it because that wasn't even planned I didn't even think about that i didn't think you'd do that you have to test it out on these little blighters i mean they loved it and it's got a beautiful we're going to get on to all of this it's got a beautiful undercurrent that adults can pick up on and take heed of because usually the messages

that you want your kids to understand are the ones that we still really struggle with as adults Because we probably weren't taught it or it's just still the culture we live in is quite toxic in a lot of ways and stops us from really understanding what's what and the message in this book you know being we'll get onto the deeper level in a minute but for a kid being very much it's not in the end result the thing getting the thing it's it's all the spontaneous happiness and what happens along the way and i chat

with my son About this all the time who's obsessed with pokemon cards and he'll go to me every morning can i buy some pokemon cards and i'm like still they're still going mate that is an incredible industry though oh you tell me about it my little before my little brother does i've got a little half brother he is obsessed the amount of money we've spent on pokemon cards and i keep saying to him look it's you're if you get a pack and there's Nothing in it you're just going to be disappointed for the rest of

the day but if you get a pack and it's got a great card in it you're going to feel good for about 10 minutes and then in an hour you're going to go can i get another pack yeah and it's just this cycle and i mean he's like what are you talking about i just want a shiny v max stop giving me yes sorry i know i know there's a i know you're going uh in a Path on this but just as a side note there's a pokemon card store in holloway where you can get

the kids to pick the shiny out i'm never going there no no no no because then they pick it and it's only like a fiver then he's gonna go can we go there every day like my son will just now think that that's how you get pokemon cards you go you spend extortionate amounts of money on the shiny card he wants i'm trying to teach these moral lessons Through the medium of pokemon cards it's going badly um but they are designed beautifully they are designed there's some really i saw when i took my little brother

to that store i was like god damn these artists are really quite abstract actually what rex said rex said mum and look at the artistry look at these characters he's trying to get me hooked into it but it is it's an essential piece of messaging that i don't think And it's not just for kids because we're all doing it to an extent we're all looking for you know whether it's the promotion the perfect partner the holiday the pair of shoes and we still have this um strange mythical conclusion that that's gonna make us then feel

happy forever or complete or better than we did beforehand but it's ephemeral it comes and it goes and it's Then it we need it again and it's i mean how are you doing with that one with with a desire for more and more um yeah i'd say i'm insatiable yeah the human condition sadly yeah i think i think the idea of enough i mean i understand it you know i understand it in theory i heard a great quote the other day which is that freedom is the absence of want which i like because it's difficult

to put a Finger on freedom sometimes and maybe that's still isn't it but i like the sound of it i you know i've got an addictive personality i'm i am an addict i think that's what people say i'm an addict and and i have that capability to become obsessive with things um and definitely love a dopamine rush but i i do think that there are steps i've taken in my life that have lessons that impact or lessens the Desire for the constant need of dopamine actually from removing some of the dopamine which is an interesting

one definitely in terms of my career and and who who i am as a person you know the kind of more egoic desires for sure man i'm always thinking about like it's not enough we've got to do this and that i did listen to one thing recently a game theory i'm not sure if it's called game theory but an outlook on life looking at it specifically as a game Right which really helped me because um the person was basically saying i'm gonna paraphrase here and i'm not doing it justice but he says this guy who's

probably a very qualified philosopher he said that he said that um if you were to look at particular goals or achievements in your life as games if you're to approach it as a game then at least you'll know when that game is complete and then you know that you're Setting another game right and that resonated with me because for example i've had a total complex about rizzo kicks um because you know i've been in a i've been around this entertainment industry now for a decade and i've seen i've started to see the ups and downs

and the curves and people come and go and people you know go into this crescendo and all this kind of stuff And there was a point where i was so wanting to be this idea of myself that i'd created that i'd almost forgotten completely what i had achieved you know and i think it was difficult with rizzle kicks because it's not that it's not normal for it to go that quickly like you put it as record of the week and it went and then we were there for four years decided to take a step back

i've seen people's trajectories go a lot To last a lot longer they've gone through a lot more rejection a lot more fighting a lot more you know and then they finally get this little sim is a great example finally 10 years of hard hard work for simby and then she's like you know popped off and but with us it was like first go it was like what you know what i mean so i had this idea in my head of like does everything just happen like that yeah and then i had to tell myself recently

This is like within this year or maybe even last year like i i have to just accept the reality that i achieved all my goals i completed the music game in my mind in a year we got we had a platinum album that's all i ever wanted was a platinum album but i never let myself just go well done you've completed that game yeah now everything else is a bonus or maybe there's a new game you know and and i think that feeling really did Help calm that that desperation for and i used it as

well with with um with sobriety actually i used to say that with that before i even heard this game theory i used to say that almost as a joke i heard it from a friend people would be like oh you don't drink anymore i'm like yeah i completed it i'm completely drinking but it's do you know what is so interesting when you look at that model In terms of success what you've just described there is the perfect example of how all of this goes against the grain of what we're taught in society so we're told

you know you could look to social media to tv to newspapers to whatever infrastructure is going around in our culture and the myth being that when you have success you feel complete you are fine you are happy forever and you've just Described this sensational success that happened in let's say 12 months but you didn't go now i am happy forever i'm going to sit back and chill which we're all hoping happens but it doesn't and we all kind of know that and we can hear millions of stories about ceos at the top of their game

who are completely in bits and mentally a complete mess or pop stars or movie stars or whoever it is at the top top of their game and they Still have all the issues from the past the lacking they felt before they were successful nothing changes about who you are as a person it's just how other people treat you that's the bit that changes because they imagine that you're something different that you are so untouchable or whatever and it's like oh no i've still got all the same bag of [ __ ] that i'm carrying around

and stuff going on and nobody really wants to hear that because We all hope first of all that when we reach this pinnacle we will feel different but also it gives us all um almost an excuse to go well it's all right that i feel so terrible or that i'm angry or that i'm pissed off because i haven't got there yet yeah but when i do or you can look at other people and go well it's all right for them because they've reached that point and i haven't So i can be in suffering but it's

if we just dismantle the whole thing it's like terrifying yeah terrifying so when you reached that and i heard a bit about this on your ted talk which i i only stumbled across recently and i absolutely loved it you completely nailed it it was brilliant i learned a lot about you i didn't know but when you reached that pinnacle of everything that you desired as a musician as a Teenager growing up wanting to get a platinum album when you reached that pinnacle and looked around when i am like you saying the ted talk i'm one

of the top dogs now i'm like i'm up there with the big players i'm mixing with everybody else who's done very well and you had that realization that you didn't feel complete you didn't feel this ultimate everlasting happiness what then what did that what actually did i do i Ended up making some pretty awful music i remember afterwards no we had the second album we had the second album that did well um but then that's it so we i suppose we had a different the the expectations rose uh around it's always the next level yeah

and yeah and i suppose the goalposts moved and our desires became bigger and larger and then All the pushbacks became more painful and i think um [Music] you know a couple of decision i think there was slight slightly different creative decisions i mean you hear this a lot with music there's slightly different creative directions and desires between myself and harley and and perhaps the label i've we know we never meant to be pop stars we only wanted to make music and We loved making music and then we found ourselves we found ourselves detached from an

idea of us we found that there was a new idea of us that was outside of our control and people were talking about this idea and we felt as though you know we and also by the way we were like [ __ ] 20 years old you know what i mean so it's like so these these so these like freakouts now i look at 20 year olds now i'm thinking [ __ ] me i was that age of Course i was freaking out so i was wanting to be you know all the things you know

taken seriously or respected all this kind of stuff on the basis that even though we were in this pop market we were making the hip-hop we grew up loving you know and then but you know the more commercial songs were the ones that i played and did that anyway so we're in this whirlwind of of opinion and critique and Um and also success and and yeah so that was hard um but we were only just trying to make music man we're trying to make music we're trying to balance making music we loved and and and

being current and whatever the [ __ ] you have to worry about i was a little bit worried about myself harley began his issues began to come up too um i can't really speak i mean that's for him to talk about and i'd Love for him to speak with you about this actually but it was just to do with anxiety generalized anxiety we took a year off to to regroup um i made some other music i made this music with a group called wildhead a band like i formed which is like the antithesis of rizzle

kicks i just wanted that out there and harley made some incredible solo music as jimmy charles moody which just honestly blows my mind And then we came back together and it was just it just didn't feel like running back into the pot well was the best idea and it was at the um this is more of a kind of uh like nerdy maybe like outlook on it but it was that the the transition into streaming so we were we were watching labels have absolutely no idea what how to deal with streaming so we were like

we're just going to let this you know This once we take a step back and then we just grew up that was it i i feel like i started to grow up at 26. i remember thinking that and and loads of things hadn't processed i hadn't processed where i'd been i didn't process the gigs we'd done um it's all too quick it was yeah yeah so i just i just did a lot of that and then and then um you know focused on trying to grow up and then i had to was confronted with The

next stage of life which is you know interpersonal relationships and um and uh becoming a mature person uh which is something that that definitely entertainment industry fame in itself can definitely delay you live in this kind of suspended state of existence it's such a cliche but it's absolutely true i mean i think it took me decades to not be a teenager like decades how old were you when you Started 15 [ __ ] off yeah seriously yeah yeah yeah yeah and and working like every week in that environment with adults and commentary and it took

me years probably in my 30s where i started to go wait a minute i still i'm mentally 15 here i need to yeah look at everything and change everything and you know that's where everything imploded and i'd change the whole thing but i think it is a it is a cliche and But it's a very very true one sadly because it's such a strange environment to find yourself in um yeah and during this ted talk again as i said i learned so much about your life and your experiences and we've been texting a bit over

the last couple years because we have an amazing mutual friend on a lancaster yeah who i probably mentioned on this podcast like at least once a month because she's she's sort of a mentor to me in life i Know she has that kind of role with you as well where you can speak to her as a great friend and a wise wise person in your life and i love her she's got a beautiful book out called the bridge yes and she helps so many people out there um find some equilibrium and peace and and all

that good stuff that we want so we've we've spoken a bit about this but there was a it's about to say missing peace without a pun for your book but There was a missing piece like watching your ted talk i had no idea that you'd you'd had addiction issues there was drug use so i didn't know about any of this so where in the time very high functioning um yeah so it was almost cliche so when i was saying i was a bit worried about myself after the second album that's what i was talking about

so i remember i remember getting into cocaine like just Just after i remember when it was there was a point where i i want to say i'm not i can't be supposed i'm not sure about the specifics but there was a point where i had finished i think we'd finished the second album or something like that and there was this gap i remember this gap between finishing it and it being released and you know The type of mind i have i couldn't i wouldn't be able to listen to it without wanting to change something the

idea of being not being able to change it was hard for me especially now with this new fun expectation the first album was like everything's a plus yeah yeah second one i'm like oh my god and there's this gap in time and i just remember just having like time money and you know attention which is a savage combo for like a 20 Year old boy who also was a weirdo i was i was an odd teenager i wasn't like this kind of like i wasn't like a jock or whatever the the uk equivalent you know

i mean what is it what is it what is it english there isn't there isn't one but people know what i'm saying but there wasn't like i was i just about got through on the basis i was a good footballer you know what i mean so i was in some popular circles but i was i was Old man for real like i used to yeah i didn't even understand friendship for example i saw the cisco video on the teddy bear where you were recreating a cisco dance routine that was that was as a kid that

was that i'm talking about i'm talking teenager yeah teenager i was still that kid um yeah so so but i mean the reason i say that is that there's some some kind of dangerous power dynamics at play there because if i if i feel like i Have have not had a certain power growing up or if i was you know then the fact that i suddenly have it i don't know what to do with it and you see that especially with men it can become old boys rather that can become dangerous you know having that

power because suddenly i'm just like right well i'm gonna go out every night and you know try and pick up someone and whatever else and get into these kind of Cycles of of of kind of yeah just hedonism yeah pure pure untapped headache wanting to um annihilate all your thoughts and numb like what was the what were you chasing what were you wanting out of that i had a noisy brain and the issue i had with um with coke or or or just an upper the whole thing with amphetamines is is that It's actually what

how the people medicate adhd yeah so this is just my personal journey you know so interestingly my actual abuse my drug abuse and addiction didn't actually stem from me wanting to just go out all the time it actually stems from me staying in because it was the only time i'd ever felt my voice the voices in my head kind of quiet And and and become simplify um not necessarily the greatest thoughts that i was left with but but you know they were kind of very and trashy but it was but they were still less thoughts

than i had and i think that's what drove me towards it and also this is another one i don't think i've ever said this before i can't remember i've said it on the podcast i was [ __ ] anxious man this is what i Remember too it was a complete mind [ __ ] being in front of the people i was in front of people i'd grown up watching on television like people who who and i was so i remember this has just come back to me now actually i can feel this in my whole

body but i remember being terrified of saying but goodbye to people right there's a weird obsession so i would like go into a room and i'd see someone i'd seen on telly i don't Know who it would be it could be a footballer or it could be like jimmy carr or someone like that right and then and then he would talk oh yeah nice seeing you you know we're just new you can nuke us on a block well i'll see you i'll see you later man and then i don't know what i do handshake fist

bump under a hug and i would think about the way i said bye to everybody in that room for oh my god for Like an excruciatingly long time and when i did drugs i didn't think about that when i did drugs i just went into the room and was like hey what's good and then [ __ ] kind of my night i mean really simple [ __ ] and that's why i can understand why people get into this i can understand why that scene exists i can understand the people you meet there is all just

as hedonistic and i missed it for years when i stopped i missed that world because it just is This irresponsible escape you know um but i ended up finding some form of medication from adhd a few years later just before the ted talk i think and and and i think that took me off of um drug abuse i'd say because really i was it was like i said it was just at home i was writing loads did you have an understanding that you had adhd before You started taking drugs i i had been diagnosed once

but i didn't really believe it i didn't take it very seriously i got put in a special education unit at school for my gcse so i was allowed to stand up during my gcses that was it um and then and then i was later re-died re-diagnosed uh as an adult um and in the middle i went to new york and Took a friend of mine's adhd medication called adderall which right and uh i did it almost as a laugh and then um i had this i'd like remember taking this out of the role and we're

in new york and a bunch of friends we're having a bit of fun at that time it was a really great place to go for me and harley because it was really peak attention for us here new york no one knew who we were and then i suddenly had this Calm come over me with his adderall and i could think yeah i was about 22 23 and this happened i could think about what i was going to say fern i'm not lying to you right before that point with adirondack i honestly didn't know people could

think about what they could what they said i thought when people weren't saying anything they just had nothing to say i didn't know that they were considering It so i had honestly i at that point you just say what i mean you would have remembered that of me i'm sure i need to come around to your house and i was blah the producer about these parties earlier bloody hell no but i would honestly my mouth and then i would think about what i'd go but wait go [ __ ] what did i say you know

like and anyway so i realized that you know like there was another part of the world which was that your thoughts have Another space to go to before you say them yeah so that so that was part of the journey and then eventually i was again diagnosed in harley street by a guy who looked at me and was and said you quite clearly have adhd and um i'd also been self-medicating on this stuff and i've been taking way too much of it um because it's another story it is so interesting i've been learning so much

about adhd i i actually did a king's college course to learn more About it really brilliantly just wanting to really get to grips because i've had loads of friends diagnosed recently i know a lot of kids who have got it and yeah i'm really desperate to understand more about it and the different presentations i don't even know if i've got it or if jesse's got it you know all these were there yeah i think but also our demographic Went undiagnosed as kids in all areas it just wasn't this stuff wasn't talked about that's why i

think there are so many late diagnoses now yeah of course people are going oh right that makes sense as to why i do this why i do that and and whatever and i think it's so interesting because clearly you've now found a medication that really suits you which is well or not which is no the one are you on medication no no you're not Okay come off that as well but this is the interesting thing because this is what i was learning about on this course is there isn't obviously one route to take as a

kid or an adult you've got to find what works for you and it could be a lifestyle thing it could be therapy it could be just having that awareness changing something in your life or medication it's got to be and it goes for all you know Neurodiversity or mental health problems that there isn't one answer you've got to take this medication you've got to do this you've got five you have to find yourself it works for you definitely i wouldn't suggest going the route i went necessarily in terms of like yeah accidentally medicating yourself with

with the worst drug by the way yeah i just think cocaine is the worst drug but i i but everyone in london anyway it's just a it's a wild Underground is it even underground is it underground probably not probably not i just don't go out so i don't know anymore yeah i remember you of course you [ __ ] remember what music in the 90s you serious jesus christ they've done it on their desk at record labels quite literally unbelievable unbelievable it is but but you know but i do again mass compassion for why that

happens why people engage in that World and and um yeah like i say it was it was based around an insecurity i suppose and it's just a constant it was a constant crutch and again the difficulty for me was i was also very high functioning like i said i was it got to a point where i was high on television and [ __ ] you know but but no one would ever know until i've told them on a massive podcast exactly now we can look back but nobody those Episodes yeah yeah yeah yeah but it's

it's so interesting because i think you know whether people listening to this now have adhd or not so many people are going to relate to that social anxiety and how that individually manifests so for you it's this very cute thing of like saying goodbye to people i still have terrible social anxiety in lots of situations but i'm very good at masking it because for my job i can sit and articulate and think about Things and be interested in other people's stories etc but i still walk away like i went to a wedding thursday and as

i was going to bed my head was like why did you say that yeah what did you do for why did you they probably thought you were really awkward they were probably looking at you thinking you're a [ __ ] like i i don't know how to eradicate that and i'm feeling it even when i'm in the situation i'll i'll still say things without thinking it Through properly and go why why did i just say that yeah because i'm anxious i'm nervous i don't know how i'm being received by other people it's wild it's and

i think it's got certainly over the pandemic it got worse because we all went into our little holes and hid for ages and i really went into a little home was like oh god this is quite cozy wonderful yeah and i'm still coming out of it and i find that Especially in the strange industry that we work in have worked in where it's so heightened where you might be in a room with someone that you really admire or you're with people that are very big characters that seem confident they might not be but they're presenting

themselves in a way where they're the ring leader of the room they're courting everybody there and creating some noise and i just feel like i want to hide i don't know how to deal with that i think So probably more people feel like that than not 100 and also with adhd i think generally from the stuff because i i'll check into certain podcasts and stuff like that i love listening to actually at the moment really love listening to like really long form podcasts i'm listening to like two three hour ones it's crazy but um adhd

i think is becoming more prevalent In society just because of the way society is structured because of our screen time yeah our usage and because of the incu just the encouraging of of of um unhealthy behavior so you know i definitely think people or if they have some kind of dormant adhd or if they're dealt with nhd is definitely being like you know heightened exactly you know it's being um i mean how we live today is It's not sustainable we all know that in terms of like how much we're on our phone but also how

we are seeking distraction like we didn't you know if we were doing that back in the day it was probably in quite a harmless way we were just like i don't know watching crap tv i would buy a magazine or whatever but now you can do like watch tv read a magazine and be on tick tock and you're like your brain's going like a ping pong going around a Machine like wow what's going on here and we're all caught in that cycle and we don't actively seek to counterbalance it that often do you have techniques

now where you know it will help you to get your brain thinking in a simpler way or to have that space away from all the craziness i think one thing that helps me with my adhd now i don't medicate i i find food nutrition is really helpful for me Nutrition and exercise so i usually am more erratic if i've eaten something kind of un um non beneficial for my body yeah and and exercise you know if i'm in a routine i've just been through a phase i've just been away but before that almost a month

solid two months solid of of this half an hour training with my friend on zoom every single day and i just feel so strong and and and You know they're natural endorphins natural feelings of goodness and happiness and i feel that i make better decisions when i'm in that space but food listen food is a whole thing one of my compulsive behaviors that i battle with nowadays is is body dysmorphia actually um which i got a few years ago uh because of an unfortunate other story but the point is i i i'm Very i i

i haven't a dysmorphic idea of what my body's like even if i'm in really good shape i feel like you know you see it when people go to the gym it's a real thing i think it's actually a really silently common issue for men women too but i think most women have it sadly yeah they don't talk about it that's what i was about to say yeah i haven't heard as much discussion about my perspective but I think it happens i think it happens in a weird extreme way um but i can only talk on

behalf of myself and and yeah it's just like i'll feel sad sometimes when i don't feel as though i'm in as good a shape as i could be something i'm working on speak to my girlfriend about it but the thing that upsets me kind of externally about it is sure i have my own responsibility on being kinder to Myself but i also feel like i'm constantly fighting a world that's encouraging not only my body but everyone else who i loves bodies to have [ __ ] things in it yeah and like them and all and

it's got totally heightened by me learning about nutrition and being like [ __ ] hell this is awful like this is once i understand what our body needs to be fueled how that we'd actually need to even eat that much but when what we do eating it has to be like This and that and it seems common sense just to fuel your body with but then there's encouragement of these really addictive sugars and really addictive fats and them together is like the best thing in the world and yeah that it freaks me out i get

that's like the the most severe form of existential dread and all the stuff in our language all the colloquialisms and the societal um the accepted ways of engaging with each Other about food encourages that it's it's you see the way people talk about the people who want to eat healthily you know people give me [ __ ] about it all the time it is it's yeah it's like it's like oh i got some seeds yeah yeah just wow also i've got a really dark history of eating disorders so i need this is i have to

be like this i'm not going back there do you know what i mean but right it is very you're Totally right people like oh just have a burger and shut up like chill out or whatever and it's like this i want to feel good i want to have energy i want to be healthy i don't want to be like i used to be back in the day i want to feel i know good about myself and i think it's the same with drinking you know if i go out and say i'm by no means sober

but i rarely drink i'll probably have like i went to a wedding last week i had One glass of champagne i was absolutely hammered from that i was like i need to go home but if you say oh i'm no i don't you fancy i'm not drinking tonight people like what yeah chill out like have a have a drink and that's a very british cultural thing as well that we get [ __ ] for not drinking massively if it it's it's it frustrates me it feels like it's all Part of a greater plan to keep

everybody trapped in this space yeah because what i mean so if you have to feel like i diverted then sorry i kind of know you're going off on great tangents i love that that's what this is about but say you you find yourself due to the work you're doing whether it's book writing music whatever you're talking about promoting or you're at an event there's people that you know there Whatever do you still have that surge of social anxiety or do you know how to deal with that now i think i'm getting better now i think

in comparison to where i was oh my god hugely because i think as i've got older and as i have gone through more and as i have given my body like for example recently i i cut out coffee for me which i don't know if i no no no no listen i've i i've have everyone around me adores this only sin and i envy no no It's not a sin what listen why don't i i could not avoid what was clearly happening which was that i'd start off i'd have three months of bliss one coffee

in the morning great push it to two great yeah then this was getting a bit later 3 p.m oh like you know i feel crazy if i hadn't had the coffee for me because i have the addict in me right she drinks it all day yeah but then in the evening the thoughts were wild yeah yeah and it's Like i can't keep doing this so for example now i don't have that i drink decaf i love decaf obsessed i'll drink a thousand cups of deal but if i go to these events i'll have the thoughts

but i'll be within myself to be like okay i'm just gonna let let those pass i definitely i have to give myself credit here i've definitely got better at that i don't fear those events so much because i don't think i need anything from them you know I'll go there and i'll and the only thing i feel sometimes at these events is i feel like a bit of a um like a misfit sometimes in it sometimes you go i go to events where there's like a clicky crowd or a crowd that i think are really

cool yeah yeah but but individually these they're all probably great but it just for in in me i just sometimes i it creates this Bizarre like chasm between us and i and i remember just being like a playground or whatever that's the only thing that i think lingers and then i begin to kind of overthink people's but then even then i'll just take a moment and be like these everybody is just a fallible you know complex chaos thing i think most people In that room are feeling that yeah we're all feeling it but we all

assume everyone else feels really comfortable and like they belong there and but also i want everyone you know there'll be that egoic part of me that wants everybody to just to know that i'm amazing oh you know what i mean i want everyone to be like oh he's so amazing like this is coolness what about this guy This guy's the coolest you know and then i'll say this [ __ ] to my girlfriends if you're like what the [ __ ] you are cool i'll be like no but i mean i mean this i need

these people to say that i mean they it's ridiculous ridiculous i was thinking about this last night and i don't know if it's because somebody said to me are you watching love island and i was like i haven't seen it i've got nothing against the show i just haven't I haven't watched it my only big big fear with that is that when these people come out of the show and then they've already got like millions of instagram followers and whatever yeah their hope is that they're liked and we all have this yeah and if they're

not liked then it's like what do they do they don't know how to cope because they're now very famous but people don't like them or whatever But we're all feeling this on social media but actually we have forever throughout history in our lives we want to be liked and i was thinking why is that it's obvious it's nice to be liked but what is the deep down historic like the prehistoric feeling of i want to be liked you know is it tribal we want to be part of a gang so we feel safe and we

feel connected like What is that like i think for a lot of us our fear is driven from we're so terrified that people aren't gonna like us and that you know when you leave my house today that you might think oh didn't like that don't like or whatever like that's our worst fear that we're disliked it's so it's a passion i think for me i think for me it's it's just a battle of self-worth isn't it because to worry about being liked For me means that i've placed my value in an external opinion so i

feel at least care when the value is sat with me so if i if i go into a space and i'm like no i i know where i'm at what i've done literally it and i can i know this is true for me because i can measure it so if i if i sat down and written like two pages of a book and i love it and i'm Buzzing and i'm imagining you know i'm living in my own imagination about where all these things will go and i go into a room and i'm confident about

the fact that i will be going back to that book at some point and that's something i can it's a purpose just a purpose you know goal all these things that the human the soul needs i'm not going to be too [ __ ] about what person thinks i'm In that in that environment in that moment if i have just you know not got a job or something i thought was gonna go well or whatever kind of valuation and then i go into a room i suddenly need something from that room do you know what

i mean so i think in a world where we are i i really feel like there's so many things in this world that actively try to deconstruct uh well of course they do it you know breaks us down consumerism is is is built on inadequacy You know they the the these corporations are these big brands they need a person to feel like they need them in order to feel better you need to have this person's name on your chest otherwise you've got no social currency or you need this other way you know what i'm saying

like get this quickly before you go on holiday otherwise you'll look you know what i mean or it's just it's all based around Us not feeling secure um so i i can understand why we all end up that because we get hammered with it when we're young and yeah and and also yeah and then you say and then it's just a normal thing of like well it is just really lovely when when that when that comes um but you know then there are ancient spiritual practices which is you know you're not you are to treat

critique as you are to treat compliments you're not Even supposed to get taken away by compliments you know yeah yeah it is what it is like some people are gonna like us some people aren't gonna like us sometimes we're gonna be accepted sometimes we're not it's just life isn't it but we're all desperate and you know going back to your book because i know that there's obviously that that's the message but this alludes to that addiction in a Sense it doesn't have to be drug addiction but it's the addiction for more for the end result

for the big shiny bit that you know kids get in small hits pokemon cards toys the tv show youtube whatever it is but we're we're worse than you know weird weird doing it adults are doing it all day every day looking for the next when will i be okay when who's going to fix me and it's yeah and i know that from when we've spoken on text You've got obviously an inherent understanding of that but you don't know how to replace the word journey so i'm going to use the word journey but your journey has

been about getting that without the stuff without the things without the exterior it's an inside job and it's not like yeah jordan's done that one tick like that's not a game that one's a lifelong you just gotta keep Going back to it yeah the game theory in that respect is a hard one isn't it what where where what where does that game end it i mean i suppose setting achievable reasonable goals you know that you can have little games in the big game you know i mean you can have little little achievements um but yeah

i i think i think um i definitely want to be in a place of self-validation for sure that's the kind Of goal i have friends who have this ability to be able to just create love what they create put it out and just and i love that i love that energy um [Music] but it's it's i just think as i'm getting older more responsibilities come in i have to start making more rational decisions and then i i sit and observe the consequences of those decisions and then Pivot and and figure out if in this situation

maybe i actually need less of something i don't need any more you know um but i'm learning the whole time because also life's changing so rapidly and i think um i'm fascinated by people i really am fascinated by the world and people and um yeah i i think that helps me oh i really i want to have a strong idea of of self and also a detached idea of Self that's the dream you know and it comes in waves often when i've eaten well for a week and had some sleep and i had you know

the five tenth poles yeah has done been on here uh no no she is coming on in september great for the okay so so in her book i'm sure i haven't read all Of it i started reading it last week amazing she will mention the five temples of whatever and i've said this before on podcast because it's just everyone needs it and it's it's it's oh maybe i'll let gonna say actually you can say you can you can uh okay well it's just that it's just a lot of the time in life when we do

feel a little off center one of the tent Poles is off and that's fine and then you can just know that there are other reasons it's not just your thoughts or people's ideas or whatever else there's other reasons so sleep nutrition exercise creativity solitude slash um community you know walks in nature six temples [ __ ] there's six see my sleep and uh solitude temples have gone awry they're bent they've been like smashed by a hammer i need those ones back in yes i've had no solitude I'm [ __ ] awful honestly i need solitude

i mean there needs to be some other temples for parent life there really does you have to find mental solitude in the in the craziness and the chaos i think where where's your self-compassion at not only for you today because i think this is the thing that we all need to work on constantly is self-compassion acceptance whatever you want to call it but how's your self-compassion for when You were making as you've called them bad choices whether it's drugs or partying or looking for outside validation how's your compassion for that version of yourself oh you

know what i don't know i feel like it's dead i feel like that i feel like it's a different version of me i feel like that person's died but can you feel at least grieved Grieved perhaps maybe i've grieved i do i do think you're i think you're right actually i think that's something i haven't confronted i haven't gone back there and maybe hugged that part of myself for or or under i understand why i def you know what i definitely understand why yeah i made i i've made those decisions and and and was in

that world totally i totally get it yeah but i feel quite Like especially in lockdown i went in a whole other way in terms of i really wanted to make myself strong man and and self-sufficient and like i just came out i looked down like ready it was this other energy that i hadn't i don't think i'd focus on in myself i've um [Music] i don't know what to call it i don't know whether i'm gonna put an a masculine or feminine energy on it i Don't know whether that's right i haven't thought about it

but there's definitely a fierce energy that came out where i was like okay here are my boundaries you know and and i'm kind of no [ __ ] you know and sometimes i had to accept i have to be i had to be hot like not hard on myself but i think i had to go that's not me anymore yeah i had to let it go because i definitely have a tendency of Of holding on to things and i and and i do it we have such a weird world now man like my phone i

got my phone i've got this is another weird fact about me i have i don't know how to get rid of it but i've got like something like 65 000 photos on my phone oh oh i i think i've got more no way yeah it terrifies me i don't know i can't get rid of i'm a technophobe i don't know how to make put them anywhere else no i can't do it i'm not a Technical put them on a you have to change your entire no no you have to change your entire icloud i'm too

scared yeah no same i don't know it all of it terrifies me i don't want to lose them but i'm not on my phone right it's me too this is it stuff like that stresses me pretend it's not happening 20 this goes back to my phone goes back to about 2012. wow 2013. so i think mine does i think i've got pictures of when rex was born on there mad [ __ ] so i'll get like i'll get sometimes on my phone i'll go like here's a memory from 1960 it'll be like 2 000 [

__ ] 14 and i'd be like holy [ __ ] and then i'll sit with it but then i do just let it go yeah it Just feels that's good because that's i've talked to donna about this a lot and it's still something that i want to i've just got more healing to be done on the me in a certain area of my life you know i've done everything that everyone else has done i've been mean to people i shouldn't have i've you know i've done silly things i regret and i hold on to them

too tightly oh really you don't Forgive yourself for it no i've still got a lot of work to do okay then there are like darker bits of my life where i'm like i do need to hug that version of myself but even going back to bits of it is like i can't i'm not there i'm not ready i can do it a bit here and there but it's not like a p i haven't found the piece but yeah does donna say that you should you should go back and hug that version yeah We talk about

it a lot and we're going to do some more sort of ceremonial work and some cool stuff together where we really get stuck in but yeah it's all self-compassion-based stuff do you think you're do you think the fear of confronting that version of you contributes to some of the ways you act now oh yeah for sure like i did i had terrible sleep last night i got Really bad night anxiety right um i've had quite a good patch of sleeping but last night all every worry that could ever be created was in my head and

i was just like oh i am absolutely [ __ ] i've got a really long day today and the kids are off school already and it was just like and it is i know that if i go back to certain eras and i've got to make peace i'm already waiting for that tidal wave of Self-loathing first that i've got to work through i'm so aware of all this and i've done so much therapy but it's still there's still stuff to be done and i'm quite accepting of that i'm quite accepting that it might take years

or forever i'm kind of fine with it because i've always got something to talk about i've got books to write i've got things to get stuck into well to work with all that [ __ ] okay and get it out how are you With anger um yeah i can get i'm quite reactive which is again something i need to no i don't think so i mean react react rage isn't good no it's never rage but i can get yeah and get pretty angry anger was for me that was actually a real way out of stuff

for me really what to have a cathartic release to get it out i think my therapist and i i feel and i believe her it makes sense a lot of my self-destructive Self-abusive behaviors was inverted anger anger that could have been expressed healthily healthy anger is like i say boundaries is that anger towards other people exclusively or sometimes towards yourself i think the anger towards the other person isn't it could be an anger towards itself because you have allowed that to happen yeah do you know what i mean so In a dream world you know

we have our we have our boundaries and we value them that's it so if we were to honor our boundaries then we we're in that oh i think i've got a lot more anger than i thought yeah well that there's no i'm not [ __ ] qualified for that at all i i just whenever i speak to my friends or you know because obviously i've been through the bridge i've done i've done yeah i did a retreat just a couple weeks a week and ago actually With a group of men which was great with a

band of brothers which was amazing but it speaks to people and it's it's one of the worst aspects of of this type of western society in britain is this kind of staunch you know one mustn't express one's you know and then you get the other extreme which is the kind of ra yeah but there's not this middle bit which is like just say i mean donna would say it's saying ouch you Know it's just going no yeah ah like that because we think we overthink it or we shouldn't maybe it's rude or you know or

you're putting ourselves second because that's what we learned as a child yeah it's really hard to do it but if you can do it i think you were rewarded by a sense you're telling yourself oh you you value yourself this space really hard by the way not but i'm getting much better at that one I felt a shift even only like a few weeks ago i just felt something shifting like what is this i couldn't put my finger on it i was like do i cut all my hair off what is this like what is

this thing you want to get it out there's something that's going on and i had a couple of really good little tests from the universe of like this this minor things nothing that's going to like rock my world and i could feel myself going into the Habitual thing of self-loathing i've done something wrong i wasn't aware oh god i thought something wrong and then i thought no actually no good no this is your [ __ ] wrong thing is the worst is i eat that that's my my default in everything is i my biggest fear

and my go-to is i've done something wrong but i didn't even realize yeah it's it's that extra bit of i didn't know i got it Wrong i didn't know i had it wrong i thought i was doing the right thing and you're telling me i got it wrong that is below my that runs below my life always fear of wrong yeah but but this me not getting it like i'm so stupid that i didn't even know that was wrong like that's i go back to it but last week i thought no i'm not going there

it's gotta be a [ __ ] anger there man oh yeah you know what this is so deep Because that is one of my main triggers is i have a fear that i'll be wrong and because i'm wrong someone will leave yeah that uh honestly so bad that i had it the other day with like one of my closest friends and it was i was battling between my objective rationale and the deep wound that it was so we had a debate it was a heated debate he believed something i believe something But because he be

so believed that i wasn't right because he believed i was wrong he believed i was wrong i started to think [ __ ] what if this is what if because i've because i've got bit wrong in his eyes he's never going to speak to me again and then i'm sad that i'm going why i can't i can't i was actually upset i couldn't believe i was thinking that of course he's not this is someone i love you know what i mean wild so it's it's Deep set and i had the responsibility that day to try

and do what i could and actually hilariously because i have no vices anymore i don't even smoke cigarettes anymore really i just ended up eating loads of cake to be honest but option i was aware at least it wasn't ideal you were doing it wasn't ideal yeah it wasn't ideal i know i do that oh i certainly will comfy and go i know what i know why i'm Doing it i would not i don't think people should come for e but i but it was just it was a real it was my almost my number

one i was really yeah so and then outside of it then i kick into what i've got to do which is you know protein good food running oh my god running running but i think the anger thing man i think it's just like going back and just [ __ ] destroying these these things For you in your imagination destroying the things that have made you feel that way like yeah you're allowed to be i'm saying this as if i'm again i'm not qualified but i feel like you're allowed to just have a space my therapist

and i form these spaces where i can just be i can ever and just get it done yeah i mean get it out and then yeah sometimes i will do that when i'm running i'll be like i'll be usain bolt Around the park because i am getting it getting it out of my system i want it out of my body but i need to almost do that every day like get because there's probably years and years of [ __ ] that i need to just get out of but it's so interesting that thing about believing

you've got it wrong because i don't even think i've got fear of the other person leaving the scenario yeah that's definitely specifically me but i think it manifests in different Ways my fear is i'm just a shitty person you're just [ __ ] yeah i'm just a shitty person and i don't deserve anything that i have and other people i like imposter syndrome yeah oh hugely like have you have you spoken to a therapist is this because it goes back to i'm a shitty person i haven't done enough to help i haven't done enough whatever

it might be i'm full stop i'm a shitty person like it just ends That is where it ends and i that's now i'm in my 40s that's where i want to go hmm this needs to be deleted this sentence because it's just boring boring to go back to that all the time you know what am i aiming for to be like a saint a perfect like we're we're humans yeah we [ __ ] up we do things wrong we can be a shitty person and we can be a beautiful person it's just like it must

be i for me anyway i feel like it must be a Thing where we or i or you are so used to it's just a comfortable space it's like uh easy it's easier yeah and that other place because if you were to use my trigger being that the abandonment thing the discomf the discomfort in that place is going well you know i've said what i said that look as it should it's that energy i said what i said i mean that's that's The space where because i i always want to i always want to find

union and as i get older what i really want to get to is a place where it's like this is what i believe and i'm happy to open other ideas but in this moment this is what you know i mean just standing by it yeah and and not being nice i've been nice a long time as a thing i was trying to get out in this in this direction the other day was to Get rid of this [ __ ] nice thing i i like being kind to people but sometimes like people need to [

__ ] off i know you know what i mean and i need to be cooler that's the uncomfortable thing i understand the fact that you need to [ __ ] off and then we can talk about this another time it's a boundary yeah and but that's you've got to live in that for a bit so it becomes comfortable it's the same as anything it's like freaking out when You're getting water it's like water being cold you know wim hof man has he been on here yes well they all tell you about that we love win

we love it you know but it is none of us want to sit in discomfort because it's not nice it's that simple but it's the place of growth it's the place pain pleasure balance man it is and it's the place of like it is it's balanced isn't it it's the equilibrium of going you know There's good and bad and and light and dark and whatever it is it's all coexisting and we have to see it all and also i bet that [ __ ] feeling of like actually getting something wrong just accepting it it's bliss

yeah that's blessed me i didn't get that wrong anyway yeah i did that last week i actually apologized to someone but very neutrally i didn't feel like Self-loathing i just i'm really i'm really sorry that that's how you feel and that i've contributed to that and i'm very very sorry and i i left that peacefully yeah that was good yeah saying sorry's a good one it's a real good one jordan i could talk to you about five hours longer because we could just even hone in on anger for like another hour and just go i

wanna i wanna i wanna i wanna um say though about the missing yeah go on uh That that uh i have actually written the book for adults that's that was that's the kind of thing okay yeah yeah so so my i've done a deal with bloomsbury which is amazing i came to them with this idea i had this idea about six years um because i i just had an idea i had to say i was I was interrogating my own um obsession with completing things yeah right and and just more and more and more and

more and more and it was only when i was reading my friends kid a book called the fox and the star so um i love that book right yeah so shout out that author because it is straight up inspired me to write a kid's book i don't know if they'll listen but It'd be cool if they did and then i read it and was like what the [ __ ] this is deep so i was like maybe that idea i had in my head i could make into a kid's book so that's it i put

a tweet out you know someone put me in touch with this wonderful woman called julia churchill shout out who was unbelievably patient with me three years for me to do one redraft I did i met up with her told her the idea she's like this is great in waterstones and piccadilly she's like this is a great idea write it down send it to me wrote it down and she was like it's not quite what you had said you know just have a think about it and then over the course of three years i changed the

lead character to a dinosaur i changed i i i wrote a different kid's book something Against me she's going it's going no no but just what you said to me on that time you know checked in on me every six months and then three years later i'd got writer's block horrendous and i went well if i've got writer's block i might as well look at the things i've already written open up this kid's book and then i've seen that i've added this bizarre storyline when the original one I gave to i added this kind of

like i'd made the grandma into like a detective anyways so i just was like well i'll delete that then so i just deleted it and she's like okay great that was it three years i just hot deleted off of it and then she sent it around bloom's beating me up with me and bluesbury all the kids books were amazing but they were like look we think you can write more so i've got a deal to Write three kids books with them and i've written the second one i've got the outline of the third one but

my my goal my kind of i don't know what it is manifesto is that the books i i want them to be engaging for kids i want them to love the colors like beth susana incredible illustrator in this book the colors are unreal and i had to pick from a lot it was a crazy situation to deal with all these Different people's versions of sunny this character that lived in my mind but beth there's something about a color she used um but the story man it's like you know adults yeah because i want people to

have that feeling i had when i read the fox and the star wars where it's like no i got it straight away really my kids were like as you say engaged in yeah there's repetition But i was like i get the center do you know what i mean especially with the missing pieces this is a this is a [ __ ] ancient sentiment this is this is this we've heard this all throughout our life but it's just it's it's it's giving that it's giving that that lesson that journey through the lens of a young of

a young girl and then also just adding a little Sprinkle of um of elders eldership which i really wanted to add the theme of of how important i wouldn't say because not everyone is is lucky enough to have grandparents or or they might not be grandmothers or whatever but definitely having a another tier i think that's so important with child i mean intergenerational even friendships are so important i've got two three really good mates all In their 70s yeah and that is a different conversation that is a different mindset wisdom like we need all of

that it's really important yeah really important yeah but it's beautiful well done it's amazing i love it and it's so exciting that you're putting all of your thoughts and creativity into another beautiful thing yeah yeah thank you for um for reading it to your kids it's super exciting oh well They loved it and i loved it and it's been so good talking to you today so thank you jordan cheers [Music] you