Bleed Management, De-roling, and Debriefing

everyone welcome to bleed management d1 d3 king the roundtable panel my name is Eric I'm the moderator just in case you this is your first panel here there's water at the back the doors are closed but the doors are actually this is around table so it's going to be on a conversational side but we want to make sure that everyone has a chance to speak so when you have a question or something to have Ken's raised or if it's a great way to get our attention and then we'll just see should we introduce ourselves hi

my name is Kingsport they've MRAM pronounced please I'm involved in intercom I'm member video for and I do a lot of work with safety as well I have now exponent I record as I'm here most people probably do know me probably receive me circles and especially our counseling it's very small hi I'm Rafael Skellington and I'm mostly involved with a lot of like online YouTube work from working I also put a lot of these in the backend for sensitivity issues and also proper design [Music] a large scholar and organizer and [Music] Hey by [Music] and

business companies yeah it sounds we have a great variety of perspectives on these topics so to start with wonderful panelists I thought it would maybe like kick us step back from the jargon of lead and talk about what is we so I don't think there's a right answer here but it would be great to get everyone's perspective on what they think about what they think about the terribly yeah I'm not gonna start so when I think about bleed I think about both positive and negative things and pack you in ways that you might not expect

after alarm or feelings that are left over and sometimes these are great things but sometimes you see people in marks who have a romance an alarm and outside of that mark it doesn't make sense but their service left over emotional connection because of the whole play but there's also you know lead because of trauma or things that are upsetting which needs to care for self afterwards and make sure that your emotions are taking care of them that you're physically being self-aware yes sometimes things heat you out the glute you're not expecting my operating definition is

that sort of it is behavioral emotional affective ambivalence of which the etiology is [Music] very similar to what's already been said where you know those feelings that you had from the game certainly into your personal life and you know how do you deal with those other promotions from role play or a bet that happen you know or but sometimes we can even mean the reverse is found with you know you have those feelings from talking that'd be you know a personal relationship in a positive way negative [Music] without things in from your real life into

the default life I prefer into the and without [Music] I don't have to have somebody so much data I think sometimes six years plus [Music] I like to taste to say that not with any kind of emotional response is bleep sometimes those impressions for example a level 3 that meant if it works and deeply strictly when there is attitudes or emotions on your tractor back and forth which player 1 if it's the over other questions from Italy from below for example instead so if folks are comfortable in a pass or like that thank you is

always perfectly client answered this we're hopefully willing to share an example so I think there could be when I first start learning fact that no high school very impressionable very insecure teenage girl and probably my first instance I'm pleadin really experiencing that was actually a positive point where the friendships I have made in being were starting to clean out to my real life because I was very oxidized I was in high school so five people that were in that sphere like my life with the enthusiasm that I had was like oh it's so good but

sometimes even with what that was having it was good it did end up turning to a negative thing because you know sometimes people develop crushes and things aren't wrists in between is and they take place things happening theme that reflect that and that's a there's been a couple of times where I've had to distance myself to another player because I didn't feel comfortable plenty a relationship with them anymore because they had express feelings to me often or maybe kinda communicated with me important you know how they felt about me talking and we're trying to use

the in-game world to get with me off me and that started to make me feel really uncomfortable and another another instance of believe that I had when I was growing up probably I was probably 17 please don't memorize English was Puckle became from New Jersey chapter and my turn to Baxter was ramping up and she like I actually basically drank out the entire base like I was so hydrated that began it was fantastic but I went to a party right after me mom and I noticed that I was drinking a lot I know should you

wait too much that might work I realized that like I was still relaxing into that like sassy attitude that I had a game and I have to catch myself from it and be like whoa you know this is not good you know so I kind of insistence backwards and forwards so it happens nowadays to do but I feel like I've gotten a lot better at detecting booze you know when things are starting to reach the lead barrier and like cutting it off for toppings or addressing people but actually for me it's often the reverse where

I actually develop reciprocal romantic very intense romantic moments in game and I would say one of the ones that was really exciting was at new a bunch of school of when I was playing there young version of myself in a version of myself that that I admired in a lot of ways but still had a lot of emotional issues that I think I probably still have but we're just so much more about so much more my teenage genitals selves and so when I came home from from that experience I experienced about three weeks of very

intensive and you know I think if those things not as positive or negative I think of them as opportunities [Music] and what we can learn about ourselves [Music] probably attract whispering time to get in touch with that somehow activated romantic relations that it takes some time to wear off playing I think that's why I have had my share of girls and also for some friendships sometimes of the largest next to someone so I have a ever protected character that was basically a crack and was obsessed with eyeballs and was not that in-game we rolled around

and I was even target and there was suddenly a reach full of eyeballs that got so excited like Michelle ducking down that started clapping and I reacted in character to this ridiculous eyeball thing and I caught myself third time around as I was jumping up and down being excited by myself I should had and realized what I was doing and had accidentally programmed myself to have an eyeball fixation silly example silly not happy examples - I was a personal drama in my past I stepped in to play a character in a game last minute that

was expensive did not realize they were in amnesia I had a huge basically rebound psycho off of it and had to step up the game so like it can be a positive thing it can also be something that so I went to bear with the matter it was my blanket treaty it was game but like I wanted to do bears if you have seen a show like Downton Abbey and despair meant to take curiam Clarke words taking place right during World War one they are all fancy nobles drinking tea there's marriage going on TV ha

ha and I always wanted to do this I love the my studies national history they love that time period I wanted to devote everything to it and I really part work for that heart watch I went deep for it and it it was good because it was everything I wanted it to be in work for me and me and there was a lot of personal fears I had about that that I'll touch it on a different panel but coming out of that game you know as you go into the family there's like difference was the

American family that's Belgians deep in the French except said I was heard of the Irishman and in our loom was so tiny family that I had talked to something to people for like weeks months and weeks preparing how to be a big sister or you know how to be a good daughter and stuff like that and and after you know all that build-up and finally playing out that that game once it was over I didn't it still felt like we were still family it felt like universe we still had this intense like bond with each

other and it didn't hit me until about two days after the war when I was sitting alone waiting for my plane and a hotel in Berlin that like a fantasy why do I give it when will this happen although I have this feeling again and like this crushing crippling loneliness like started to creep in and I felt like almost at Mike hafnium like the wait is like how that's just the best serve everyone to like I didn't know how to deal with the loss of both of those relations are not being able to hold on

to those feelings but you know almost six months to seven months later I'm still friends with all those people and once that quite initial loneliness or that that that beaten drop and that kind of leave came like those friendships that I stood fellow for most brothers and sisters that I made made walking we're sewing really really close friends is thankful for those relationships so thanks everyone moving front like the experience of having leader seeing somebody experience be very telling the management of we the kind of wire like what are the weren't were the reasons we

would need to manage leaders or what are the risks of not managing believe Sarah you might start [Music] I think that this is a really good word I don't like the word danger I'd really prefer a risk I think that all workers receive I think you know we're playing emotion you know but you know you're having these very whether playing out impression dynamics or whatever it's just you know experiencing being part of a team and going with meeting a dragon I mean that those are bonding experiences it's great and it doesn't have to necessarily be

something that's like emotionally depressing or intense but it can't feel very intact bill and in some more real than life because we tend to be keep everything a very little level of intense that you're trying to do and because of that there's areas of ephemerality like I'm never going to experience that okay incredible moment for this person it now it's gone and the person's gone and the fiction spawn and the person I was done and Who am I now and what does that even mean didn't mean anything and do they feel that way and if

you know or if it was a negative experience or what is perceived as negative a mechanistic dynamic did that person really need to do that to me right like where they trying to target me how do you have those conversations is part of this and I would like but it's also socially and how we navigate our communities economics afterwards how do we determine how do we make that transition between what those those of experience experiences and returning back to our lives but maybe some of our memories or our thoughts our Sicilian commercially in the game

somewhere that can be an issue or maybe you know like you're not sure what you're gonna see cos people of them halfway around the world in them and I know those feels okay and and so how do you what kind of like like what kind of life are you now and you know I've had experiences where I've been in communities that have to have this language and didn't have these skills or any tools whatsoever it was talk about and frankly I experienced quite a bit of emotional breakdown as a result of that and I felt

extremely alienated and I one of the reasons I feel very passionately about this talk because I want to help others too I can't solve them but hopefully we can sort of provide some tools and some support one of the and you know building networks a statement of support and help people feel like a this is actually normal and it's fine to have these feelings and you people are there and want to help and take not everybody but you want to help you know guiding getting people to you to those tools I was counting along and

premiere experience DM where to add to the risks of not managing bleed tariffs to say I think I approach this I'm almost a college grad student I would say that so it's important because our present is in antagonist saying it's like it's exhausting it depletes all your resources until until you can't have no more to give it is the nature of look and you want to get a neuroscience of it but like you just think your physical resources are only half financially you will run dry your crates of significant threatens or work-related work maybe just

underlying cognitive mission right and that's when will you get surprised [Music] so you have two very powerful impact so whether it's when it comes to incentive structure debrief anomalies and I guess we're never to touch more on that later but that can be probably useful sometimes I don't think it's dangerous and I think mostly it's and risky for people I don't know how much is it very much so is it something that we are not supposed to be or is that I think it certainly was [Music] so I think the lots changed in the discourse

I think that and normalizing it and you know writing on their wall I'm having bleed which I'd loves the human element they're not only are they they acknowledging medicines they're experiencing it but they're asking for you know and I get that that shows to me that the community is also ready to have that conversation than to support each other but there's still places where you'll be courage to walk it off or if you're having some sort of reaction it's your fault or shouldn't be what I see as you should yeah thanks so much good so

Martin II kind of already helped me segue right so now that we have a establish that there is a need for managing or help to us to to recognize that need let's talk big picture first and a big we'll get down to specifics but big picture what are some strategies for managing believe that you need either seeing be successful we've personally been successful with you when we get started on this one yeah this actually goes back my dad used to take affairs I never wanted to do the longhouses waitress you you take my hand [Music]

you know this look at me you can say maybe something it's all it's all fake it's all pretend it's all pretend you're gonna walk out of the house you're not going to die in the line pounds and keep always you said it you said that's me early except promos coming around four years old always a lot was probably like and having that monster like he is itself a it's pretend when it comes to for me like situation will be eating like you know if something scary happened to me and game great and I have to

deal with like that fear at the end of the day I have it known to myself like it's okay that's allowed me to be able to cope with some of those fears actually farther itself into you know darker stories or you know and things I really probably wouldn't have faced that mantra allowed me to be like okay at the end of the day we're going to protect its advanced perfect but it's more ten and I'm gonna make it through no matter what you know and maybe outgrow penis or I'll learn from this and that's that's

when you help me cook but you know situational kind of stuff like dealing with the effects of an event or like killing a dragon like dealing with that after but when it comes to people like having to do with relationship leave and things like that I really found that like my best my personal best solution is that like I really only do those kind of really tight relationships with people that I personally trust to be responsible with me and and also respect me enough to be able to communicate with me about a lot of issues

things that are on their mind coached you know posting theme during the game or the theme because I find that that having beat knowing that you're really secure and you're communicating with when you're doing a deep relation like that like a marriage or a boyfriend or you know like a really really close friend or sister or brother I have knowing that you can go and maybe even Hoff gave me like calm handling you know or kind of this second where even in evening space or like parking space but like in your room right let during

the Lark and there with you you can just like rage for a minute this is this is crazy for doing this like stuff like that just thinking to have that comfort zone with that person I think it's really tangled so for me to help manage my relationship leave when it comes that I just make sure that I do people you know kind of know what they're getting into yeah that's a great idea mantra every setting can be super helpful super powerful Kim can you also give us a few strategies that you've seen these successful or

you haven't success foot in here have sure checking brakes with people but also I have a list of friends who I know it's okay that I touched them certain ways we have pre-existing things that there's a friend or two but I know I can scream in their face if I do you do I'm probably not going to and they need to be reminding to take it out game and we're going to talk about that and it happens and we have pre-existing discussions about that and we think something's gonna move that way we also set it

up plus I will go and have the awkward conversations if I need to I hate to it yet but I'll go and conversations yeah so there's are some great examples of stuff that we have used as as financially Oh doing a question [Music] [Music] negative work not dealing relationships work that's why the White team out here or that's that's hard though I know there's also a possibility of talking at the game runners about it because sometimes they can run interference or divert the two of you you don't play well together in two separate areas if

they're aware if they're not aware they can't do anything first once the conflict has happened it's a lot worse in their campaign game in my end where there's no flames a lovely person I like her type of game I should never play near this person in game ever because the ways that we both get attention who plot need to gauge each other are too similar so we went running over each other and I wound up in a game in the last year where that was going to happen and I went [Music] [Music] [Music] no no

eat your own and there's no we do the best that you can do to minimize something you know I think on the same thing you know some news and media and try to reach out to run interference if that's the best thing like you don't communicate well with this person maybe you can get some help I mean at some point it turns into high school gossip club we don't need that but if you can't talk directly you're kind of stuck under everybody engaged I think it's I'll have it's like I have a friend a friend

and we can even play more games that makes us and so when we learn together there's this wildly them it's very very challenging so we decide that to be role play like have speed which isn't necessarily a slipknot like a caramel multiple turn here as much as like the energy before it tends to be we both agree that like we're forever at the same situation let's let's you know what we're going to do sublets please acknowledge that and be proactive many of our communities and also studying communication strategies and holding grudges it's really especially if

you're having interactive this person long term is just going to be better and it's not results in some way and you may not get there but if you can find a way to let go of it and and try to avoid that person if possible so it's not kind of to be triggered a little side of that who can actually manage to have a positive interaction with that it could fix it but if you have a weird history of that may not happen but sometimes that house you touched on something that I found really interesting

that's this notion of actions that we can take close or actively to mitigate risks up front like a lot of the discussion around the energy please like what do we do after it happens right what do we do after the game can you maybe talk a little bit more he gave us one example right if I found you with this person are there other examples you can give us of techniques to mitigate beforehand sure I think so now doesn't get wounded but that I had the downside about of course is having to know someone very

well the person in which I was speaking and I have known for well over two years and so in almost lurkers I'm just actually here in the block let's receive you are not going to have that was going to be right to know that person really dipped in any event of intimacy degrees consent and so you don't have that advantage so well that is hopeful you have that relationship what do you do if not and I think the key there's is what's becoming more and more apparent to me is workshop and I think most of

your men many of these problems can be mitigated solved by I just like we're shopping that allows for intimacy calibration before going in as well as establishing I'm you need to know one another's behavior noticing behavioral trends of other people that have met with yours and you get a good idea once you're in proximity maybe just doing some sort of Pharma what you know whatever like how do you your cognitive reactions together on that person I think these are and also learning to be around people is a challenge in and of itself and all these

can be solved early extensive work shopping the challenge there is designing it or the experience and that I think is something that we're going to see more and more need for and we're also getting better and better yes so opening up that topic to the rest of the panel or any upfront mitigating practices or specific workshops that you seem to be successful in helping the bleed process to be a healthier planet I'm a super big fan of relationship celebration kind of thing like how would you like to play on certain thing with a great rapport

with individuals so that's they're not bringing in some assumption of oh you're playing we have oh that means you want me to teach you the whole game itself you know they have their own assumptions and projections right so if you can just really be very you should about exactly play - looking for then you can see whether or not you're a match if you're not a match that's fine and it's not to be personal fight but it's worse to find that out if you've already had a really neat experience with each other but I also

would have liked a balance of saying that and safety in general in the workshops I think is or however you decide to design it whether it's with a lot of mechanics or not but having it be a front and center conversation that that is an important part of a community and that players are more important than larks which we shouldn't have to say but it really reinforces because some is more important than and they get very happy and it makes sense especially lately for just a bunch of time and money and energy and they were

character and the outcomes of schools or whatever but just being aware this is a community experience and everybody's experience is just as important culture yeah I wasn't talking about talking so much about friendships now but I get the feeling that perhaps you talk about leading the bowler this is mr. clean it seems like a perceivable it dangerous of course if I agree it can sometimes be overwhelming and it can be acting can change life cycle I think people have the most complete but I still think that love decliner that is really cheap and they turn

it off that's one of the reasons they learn and if we if we end up over planning everything happen I think it's probably a safe way to to play to close relations with you you know already with them you have to pay a little drag because you get much complete in value I'm not sure if it's all sitting around I also agree with the workshops and the calibration but sometimes the most magic moments happened with players you need anything like that I believe that is very important for for the learning experience that they can keep

the possibility these magic moments I also think that picture it's a positive sign it's a little bit like sitting giving the players too much responsibility for making their own relations and this also is bringing in more believed in into the play and I think also perhaps a takes away a responsibility and the possibility for the organizer is to plan and for the rolling process and what comes after [Music] either everything into the cactus or main in workshops under the organizers facilitation while I haven't played all blockbuster loves and some and it seems to me it's

a fairly common way to do this that players are completely free to reach out you happy what they want and make relations that is like you basically create your plot like it's your make what you want but fair what America meant was we more like structured like my relations were built into the character of two or cast as those characters like I didn't know any of the people in my family back well prior going in it was that relation coming out on the flip side to that like you know I do kind of agree that

sometimes you can be a little bit lazy the blockbusters seem to have you know all relations and all that organizing put on the players because I was a prefect actually at fourteen fifteen sixteen and while it was a lot of fun you know the prefix had to come together us off game prior to beginning going we should probably make a debrief session just for defects so we can talk about the things but it was up to us to have to put that together so you know we made the agreement that you know after the house

cup was given and right before that a party would begin we'd all speak off to the library and we talked and it was it was so I'm so glad we did that there were a lot of frustrations that you know if you're just playing a student you're not gonna understand because prefect is kind of like half in and half out of game at all times because you're worried about your house from an off game respected making sure that everybody's having fun did your responsibility you know you're making sure that things are are only speaking wells

and clarity and arrows and everything's organized and then on the if you excited you're participating play you know and you can volunteer to be in prefect you volunteer but it was nice to come together off game and you know cry would be like oh my god I think this is gonna work we just won the whole thing it could be like but only us you would understand that but I will necessarily be it's completely fair how will we have have put that responsibility on us to make that demon saying you know I believe that there

should have been some formal organizing with you know you know means how much you know and organizers feel really really stressed and you know the MCS feeling really really stressful of course the prefix ahead of houses have to organize everything their house camp organized you know the initiation you know going to classes to make sure everybody's happy you creating or because how the house is going to be a lot so the bus terminal which are described in first degree I think so written right now and it got worse the last bit here so like I

don't know I think it comes from a good place if any consumer desire thing to be to run light I think it comes from like a safety perspective whereas if you want everyone to have the play that they want you wanted wanted to feel yeah do you want me to to empower people to make their own historian sort of spin while I can give a lot of unfortunately puts this huge load of responsibility of individual and it's not the careers like club I think we're in sort of here's big territory do not like we've sort

of had this maximum capacity for that thing in terms of like the creator's giving giving control almost complete authority control over and you're spending I'm personally in the field seeking to have really like the star effects in terms of people just mean one able to participate because the wheat responsibilities about what we are talking about certain big logs like has anyone tried this for about say 200 to 500 people well you can have different connections and relations with people from say the other Kingdom and it is impossible to make sharing for all these groups of

people all together so you have probable to do it like in small groups but then you miss something maybe anyone has some other ideas how to do it how to let people to share these experiences and to talk about the one who has that such people [Music] I had to do things that excite do you have some groups to do big four of the share stories and actually make fanfic their characters afterwards to help you process their emotions gargantuan size but it wasn't really I wouldn't really consider a large form look about a week and

that was dystrophy in Tampa but that was more like a war being working we're kind of just fighting with different feeds but it still had its own in its very straight because very experienced but even then you know everything had to be broken down into guilt and groups and and those people when you know debrief with those people are talking to people about their groups so and then fax 3000 person name or ligament there's no way that always people like sit down have a nice to many people I think at some point you do can

reach a maximum like [Music] then then we have so many people it has to be broken down the trees otherwise nobody here anybody or nobody is going to be able to express I think we lost to the boy something's where I've secrets across before you know I find that you get its do even though people might be put into groups they find themselves automatically organizing into their own groups to kind of debrief and talk about things without you know saying it's just people who had relations try to debrief in game and I find that that

can happen in larger need the kind of it happens naturally in smaller games where these were pre structured anywhere growing 6280 people and by that age structure theory post game is very successful most times where it's led by staff but I think once you start crossing and thrown I feel like once you get over to read you do review people begin to really difficult because just too many so I think it's important to give time and space in your planning to allow them with the excitedly hawk and that that needs to be exclusively there you're

not just kicking people off the slider out of the area and our story is sort of a contentious term now they think [Music] but the idea being that you know there's a difference between having the excited oh my god it was so cool of my character to max versus having a share conversation that was really a powerful moment when I cried in your arms you know for you those are two different conversations and one of the problems that I have with the after party model which I think after parties are great as long as there's

also an option or several options for people who don't want to immediately just start getting drunk and hanging out with people I'm the kind of person that actually deals and I have a lot of emotion but needs to be after that are not and I get extremely over singing story and my face and I have loved hearing people's stories I loved sharing that with them and I'm the I'm an honest dollar i i literally record people's stories and then study them later but when I'm emotionally overwhelmed like you're saying like just when you're getting a

boost up maximum threshold I can't be in that space and so I really need more of the structure like one person speaking at a time even if it's been formal debrief and I think that for me the ideal for any large whether it's like new people or five people is to have well I think will be destruction eerie but is to have different modes of engagement I think colleges are that's right areas where the husband would go over here to talk to you here if you want to do it for welcome or whatever the different

modes were I think that's really where we should move into because not everybody has the same needs and and also Chinese weird you know well maybe feeling just fine immediately after the labor they're having issues and some people really don't want that dumped onto that maybe they have an amazing life experience right so how do we hold space for people in general whether it's for large groups or small groups how do we incentivize a play culture really is more I think the larger question that that has a variety different roles and suggestions maybe I can

say hey I can't be a moat [Music] so I think there are important there are like these nice we lose sight of what the goal is the debrief right or the D roll set around like what why do we do that is it just in French is it just is it are we giving in to the hike next believe or are we trying to we're trying to be or are we trying to prevent something worse and I think that bull I am taking an understanding effects affecting and that's something that can be difficult to do

before but in its Louie needs to be adapted and understood what is the impact my game because there's really ultimately two two things that debriefs bullies trying to do the effects of which are different and what is the I don't want to get into a conversation of operationalizing the player character like I'm Malcolm is that's really really complicated that don't really agrees on that but so it's like the effect accelerating you need to deal with just a separate of the character play which is important and sometimes we overlook entirely which i think is a mistake

and then there's of course identify personal behavior cognition and character by your cognition things that were affected over the past compiled and then being able to successfully separate those and if those are ultimately the two goals and then you need to find just a matter of adapting out in scale I think of course you can't force anyone to do anything but I still think that when you sign up to something you can communicate to the players that you are opting in for a package now and you can't cherry pick th thing and it's increasingly common

that you have to take part in the feel of virtue to be able to play they are and that I think from an organiser perspective you are also allowed to say that you have to take part in the postdoc workshop or they'll be waiting for you there of course then people can still meet but they are kind of disregarding the contract if they do that they might have their reasons too particularly if they learn touches the oppressive relations everything from oppression listen counselor ever it is I think that trestles should be quite high for the

people who have been requested to opt out of the coast of workshop there's not giving their oppressors chance to show their human face to kind of show that they are nice people after all and it resolved and something new effects I think in these cases it's very important that the organizers communicate before and that and we we will not force you but we expect you to be there as well what advice we will probably leave someone else in this mess yeah so part there was a comment that you made a little while ago we were

talking about player creator content plays great American relations it sounds to me like are you commenting on enough on there being an opportunity for like bleeding in and then it sounded to me like that was a concern for you could you explain that concern I think that if you eat it I don't know I don't I think that is usually something that disturbs your focus because you are supposed to play a character and of course we all have lead and sometimes we play with people we know already and we like them thankfully dislike them but

that is not part to the design of the large that is not part of the idea how this dog was made so I think of course it's good if it breaks that you feel safe or that you feel like they're easier to play but when you bring in your attitudes I think it's awesome that it expects of the character strategies from you bringing in your own emotions it goes let's backs of the characteristic ocean but this is always there it's not something that can get rid of its normal is it's there all the time but

I do think the prolonged experience is of more interesting if them so I think therefore it's interesting playing with people you haven't met before you come before us thank you but I guess piggyback that like how do you I hesitate to use the phrase weed out but how do you discourage people from people like how you we know the people who are seeking of lead experiences versus people who are treating Marcus therapy to say what was in the last panel which is that lead is going to happen but it happens in a social context and

and I could mention this as well and so yes you're if you're if you playing through drama again I want this it's dangerous it's very risky but also it impacts people so if somebody all of a sudden asks you their Tiger focus to manage you or their or whatever they're experiencing is completely overwhelmed by whatever you're projecting and that is I guess I would call it a negative right it's the inner physic an invasive intervention right we're all of a sudden you are sort of stuff which is sure I mean I think we don't even

talk to prospects though what their position is I was like because yep here all day I think it is a another barrier of safety Oh Sarah I'm so great stuff but it is it's there as like the engagement it's perfect for this because people do do not have know again and they show up and then they crash and burn it's nasty and it's up their game and no one gonna remember chopping through that like fix this yeah and then you have someone there whose job is to do a motional labor that way the mess got

like a dozen plenty mouse the players there someone there who's like and who was trained in this how to had and I think the big thing that's understand slur and not understands the epistemology of our theory as well because that's a really valuable tool in handling situations as you can there's like amount of secular education involved in a way where you can set like this is normal this is probably what's going on and puts in that deescalate right and get that person reintegrated or get them out right it's a really unique underutilized layer of safety

that is really important for our larger games when things like that about to happen especially in a culture that is increasingly pushing playing with fluid which is something you're seeing more of because a lot of people aren't like as Martin said it's not something to be afraid of right and I think people are just like really digging it down let's do it now going for it which is great when people might be messing with material I caught it this year but they're ready for right [Music] so I think it's a tool that we talked about

you can't until I hear a very they're things have become staples but that is not one of them and it should be used for every game but it should be something it is considered for every and the very least having a safety whether it's an in-game person somebody who its job it is or the organizers were already taxed with other texts away baby yeah yeah [Music] favorite so what I would I would indeed mighty green process tends to be pretty fun I went to the guy I'd like to share stories like you know dude we

almost protects trick me against that wall that was so awesome man like I love going into those those feelings are like oh actually struck serious terror I thought you were gonna kill me like it was so cool I love sharing those stories and and sitting down people really thought like you know what were you thinking during that moment like why did you do that like I went to this when I was in Denmark actually back in March I went to a Danish vampire called thoughts in Mozilla and it was a just a part when I

friends of mine which I was in the air he's like okay so I basically played the epitome of vampire mate she was a growing character I was expecting her neck to get broken by the end of the night didn't happen but right I had asked everybody in the clan that was bullying meaning essentially right to treat me like crap and so one of the guys did a very specific thing where he basically sat me down told me there's no hope and I should never I should never dream of white freedom and this is where I'm

going to stay forever [Music] we have to that's what my thing is finding the why behind certain scenes are like how how did you do this or how did you do that you know even a real practical sense like not even necessarily of dealing with the direct emotions of a scene where prisons begin a referencing the memory report that I went to one of the backers got a fight broke the guys are but he had a tiny shock box in his hand all thing and cracked it and I said and it sounded like he broke

the guys are so after the game is over and people merely kind of all teary because like how did you make that sound like what did you do it's like and we got to share all these techniques about unity stage combat increments really insight only one I don't think that degree always has to be heavy and sad it's not you're sweet but I think we when you're able to kind of share those stories why alliance precedes it can really help even the why behind antagonist exceed either somebody was bullying me or I was bullying them

learning like you know what in that movement made you cry or like what made you run away or scream or do this so I'm sorry maybe like that the fun that you describe is having the players from the newsroom if your debrief setups or mechanic separately to such a positive experience i I really like when you're in Des Moines happens when disabled is going away character I think that's a nice connection for their energies standpoint but story and like cool things I don't do things I see one there's so many I think it's really tight

this is not the answer you want I looked I think relying on the same way is and more techniques you stop designing at that point when you're just like this is company Kreuzberg and then you I think once again I'm going back to what is the goal here is in this particular game is the dear old more important of the debrief is the social element more important is the GUI and artwork with movement a big thing do we need to can aesthetically deal all right these are a few that you need to really consider it

affects of the game my player base and then and then be a game designer and develop methods for undoing all the damage I do love my degree so it starts with Adi Birol that is very similar to it she was describing you you know he finds a way to symbolically take off something of your characters or say your I was this person I am NOT this person and then one thing Nordics but one thing you would like to take with you from the character one thing you would like to leave behind that's a very powerful

and I've been learning a lot from the spiritual communities we should do workshops as well what would you like to bring into this experience needs a really love creating space and and so that's like a really powerful powerful thing and deep rolling and then what was your most intense moment I like that question to be you know traumatized and it doesn't have to be it doesn't neccessarily deep in the war story though it's what your most intense comments right seriously and then and then kind of freaking it into both of us accelerating on my order

you know exciting moment and that can be a moment I was ill rating for you and when you heard the crash it was tailored for your character right so tonight what what was it that you know it's usually kind of bring in the peak experiences really and just creating space for authentic relating or one person like we are here or one person at a time to speak and share I think that's really important distinguishes it the instruction and or sometimes a model and then bring it into the thermos personal to the I'm having a a

chair where everybody gets to talk about what it was like to be part of a group experience because as we start the game and we do a workshop it's a group experience why not believe it that's a great experience so you'll have the opportunity to share maybe that part think one more thing not spend two hours sharing the hard thing [Music] for example hangouts those are tremendous their opt-in wasn't stuck there with the debrief that I'm describing takes 45 minutes you know so it's not like it's awaking people to slowly transition out and in the

life that I just ran and company which was actually basically playing themselves we had a reflection hour before the degree when you create a piece of art it or you can go for a walk but you weren't really allowed to talk to each other so adding even more time for that transition and we need to create an artifact in view and some sort of something with really the energy of that experience that you just titled any continued with you I [Music] okay for me this is very personal and I feel like I think sometimes we

talk about we in a general objective sense but you also have to remember that it's also you person to you you know so for me like I can't wait but my mighty breathing okay I guess maybe I handle that is I voted my person I had these memorable scenes with and I talked to them about it and or you know people come to me in and we talk to talk about it I tend to like a little more individual platelets that's how usually for me and I feel like a process is better because I feel

like sometimes in a group think it's nice to have that structured way sure to to be brief and I might have been too formal like you remember Dean I just if it's an opt-in or opt-out thing it's a choice I usually don't because I like handling it my own way I like being able to try and meet the people behind the mask counterparty like eating them as people rather than who they were the last three days and I like making friends I fight eating with people so for me I find that that's the best way

I but that doesn't mean it's because we for everybody than Hamilton working I was try to give that one piece of practical advice and that is said usually people have more need to talk them to listen and I think it's designed to be brief exercises it very small groups of two or three because it allows more people to talk perhaps change practically so that you get to talk to different people and perhaps you see semi randomized methods so that you have - or seeking to talk to you but [Music] recession experience what was your question

- I've seen large groups why I don't think deep recession should be mandatory because not all the sessions were everything more stories I think no titties all traitors yes made-up stories but if you make something that is based and I miss directly back to something like that I believe that should also be part of the deck and evening with history responsibilities take it all