William Brown: Complete Guide to Create a $10M Business

And I asked myself this question if I had $10 million in cash in the bank right now and I could just do whatever I wanted keep the business turn it off work or or not work travel not travel what would I want to do with my day there are questions that you can ask where people will close themselves one of my favorite questions to ask is why can't you just do this on your own and then people say well if I could do it on My on it'd be done already people don't really understand it

yet people don't really see how powerful it is and how it can seriously change people's lives in a way that College University and school can't before we start this podcast I have one little favor to ask you can you please hit the Subscribe button down below so we can help more people every single week thank you all right man let's do this all right let's do it all right man first I want to say a big Thank you for this since we last spoke man the amount of help you've given me has been incredible and

like I don't think you realize that sometimes though you know it's just like for you it's quite these things just pop up and it's just oh here do this do that but like you've transformed my business in the past four or five months you've grown it a lot indirectly and directly pointed me in so much directions and um yeah I just want to say a big thank you for that and Even with the new book today there's been so many changes already so it's been a while man how's the past couple six weeks six months

been for you it's been good yeah it's been um fun easy so yeah but no that's that's really good to hear man the uh the indirect sounds like you want me me some money as well talk about that we'll do a r share on it I'm only joking but yeah know things have been good man yeah man man the the book is what was the idea with The book man because I know you you've always T about it but you know who you remind me of you remind me of a a young Daniel priestle don't

know how I feel about that he's he's pretty far ahead but well no look the book the book was actually a a passion project right cuz I've always loved books since I was very young I've always loved book books and magazines you know graffiti magazines and books and art magazines and books music Magazines and books now Business magazines and books as well right and I've always collected books and just love like the art of just making them the cover design and and and all this cool stuff so I selfishly always wanted to make a book

and I was just waiting for the right time when it was worth doing one you know where I could really give away something substantial and then after you know building and and and then selling the Last company it just felt like I've got enough to share now that's actually going to help people you know and that's why I literally give everything away in it was because when I sold the last company I was like done you know I didn't want to specifically Chase more money I didn't want to build another big business at least not

for a while MH so I just thought well it doesn't matter now I can give it all away it really doesn't matter because I've already got Everything that I need MH so if it helps me then great and if not well you know I've just fulfilled that that kind of goal yeah and obviously the whole thing with YouTube happened when the bloody Channel blew up and then I had to hire reps and and and then it became more of a proper business in in January but yeah the book was just just a just a labor

of love and now it's a great asset to have you know I think Like the level of detail you go into the book is unknown so just for context for people like for first like for people to check it out you have to check it out number one and I'll have all the links for it for you and everything man but nobody is sharing the level of detail that you have it in terms of like you're literally giving people like your actual scripts which is it may seem obvious but it's like if that's across your

vssl your landing page your sales page you're Running your sales calls your objections it's literally holding nothing back and I think that's what puts you in a category of one and that's the reason why the the YouTube blew up and the book is going to do well and the businesses are done well and even the trading company man because the way you look at it it's like oh yeah we just kind of fell forward and it was one thing another thing another thing but it's not though and the way you even Explain how the training

company was built and your perspective on like was a mechanical trading whatever it was [ __ ] described it's it's like I've seen like the compounding effect for you which is really cool because you got into this quite late compared to most people who like try to get into this you know super young 2122 so that's kind of been interesting but yeah man okay I want to get into the detail taught me true a Bleeding neck problem a bleeding neck problem well that's what you need to solve if if you want to make good money

you know cuz there's loads of problems to solve there's big problems small problems for all these different kinds of people so obviously it just makes kind of logical sense almost like the bigger the worst problem that you solve is MH the more you can charge you know like dude oh man imagine if someone could invent like a pill for any anxiety And it just instantly gets rid of anxiety my God man you could charge so much money for that and it would be so easy to bloody sell if people believe that it worked which is

a whole other problem it's positioning though too right yeah it's just solving a big problem man the bigger the hairier the problem um the easier the the whole business is you know and you can still make other businesses work but yeah and that's what what trading was because you Know the people that really want to need it to work they want to need a solution very badly and if you can position it in the right way then they're just they're just in you know true true I think it's how you position it to those to

them like you give them that solution right because yes yes yes it's a problem they've identified a problem but you've been able to find a way to aggravate that problem and I just interviewed um Sabri subie you an marer guy such such an awesome dude we had a massive conversation around vitamins or painkillers and the concept of like transitioning from a vitamin to a painkiller and at the end of the day like the way we settled on it it was like a debate he just said you go after the bigger problem you go after the

pain problem you create a painkiller but at the end of the day like you can almost spin the vitamin to be a painkiller if You can get into the core which is like health wealth relationships increase Revenue save time so it's just an interesting way to do it because there's a lot of guys selling trading products but they're just positioned the wrong way but you were able to break through yeah well that's comes down to Unique mechanism you know that's that's the thing and also doing what one thing that's always served me well is doing

the opposite of everybody else you know I I'll give you like two examples so example number one when I start the trading education company everyone was talking about technical analysis and analyzing the charts and finding the patterns and stuff so I just went well you don't need to do that you can just literally follow a set of rules and no one else was saying or doing that so it cut through the market everyone's like what on Earth is that like what is it I've never heard Of it how does it work so you had Intrigue

you had a new mechanism as well and just saying I dude I remember everyone that I that found out about that was like what is it how I've never heard of it like how how does it work so you've got people from the minute that you say it m before anything which is really cool so that's one thing and then with the YouTube channel you know everyone was doing these mad edited videos real edited graphic design Thumbnails all these fancy titles and [ __ ] and I was like [ __ ] that I'm just going

to do the exact opposite you know fancy title text message title [ __ ] $1,000 graphic design thumbnail it took a week no thumbnail planned out scripted out you know no plan no script the counter Trend just just do the opposite man and then you cut through the market immediately when you can do it you can't always do it but but when you can do the Exact opposite and get away with it it almost always works you know interesting because it's it's like if you if you were starting out and you starting out in your

Journey on YouTube and you were putting these really shitty videos with no thumbnails people would say this guy has no idea what he's going on what he's what he's doing but the fact I think that like you knew that people were doing the super edited videos and you knew that people were Shilling like Technical analysis allowed you to come over the top like you have that awareness so that makes sense it was almost like you had that approach because did you have much resistance negatively because I guess that's what people fear of right they have

an idea business idea starting an agency helping people do X Y and Z and then they they hear the first bit of resistance and they [ __ ] their pants like dude are remember when I started my company I was In Singapore and I was sending Outreach to podcasters in Singapore and I was telling them that I would save them time by managing their podcast and I got back this huge hate mail from a guy of a guy being like people don't want people to manage their podcast they want to help them grow their podcast

and remember I like Shar myself at the time like 2022 and then uh my partner said like there's there's a hint of Truth and everything and I took that advice and I went with It does that make sense so for a lot of guys they don't know when to disseminate between count under a trend or am I just [ __ ] this up you've got a point you've got a point well dude I've always been a big believer in just like just go out and make a mess and then clean it up and that's what

you did you kind of just put it out there and then learn from it and and cleaned it up that's that's what you've got to do whether it's with business with I mean look with paid ads Right I always describe paid ads as throwing DS to the diet board right so whenever I start with ads I'll make 10 or 15 or 20 run them all and then two or three or four will work then you just put the other 16 in the bin and you're good to go right so just make a mess get it

all out there see what works and then kind of work backwards and and iterate and that's what you do with everything that's what you do with your copy with your ads with your offer you know this Is why sales calls are so beneficial because you can just test [ __ ] and speak to the people and then if you get someone that's like no I don't want to buy this you can say well why you know what what could I put in there or what could I do that would make you want to buy it

just go and speak to the market and just test [ __ ] YouTube is a good testing ground as well like what one thing that I've found is for me there's like two Types of videos a grow the Channel video and Book Sales call video but it's hard to do both you know so certain videos will get a lot of views but Less sales calls and some will get not many views but a load of sales calls h you know which but you only learn this from from doing it what's the difference in the videos

well the grow the Channel videos are more stories and you and just more kind of you know like how I became a millionaire or um or or how I sold my Business or stuff like that whereas the ones that book sales calls are more like right here's a walkthrough of my funnel and how it works mhm or just more more tactical stuff but made in a wow not how way explain that actually before you do that this is going to piss off a lot of people because the content space is built on share everything no

so let me let me walk through this concept for people so for most people uh and I fall into this category which is probably Shot me in the fot from a revenue perspective for sure is like the overshare share everything and then people pay from impementation or whatever that's that's a common knowledge but your approach is different I don't agree with that I really don't agree with that man I think I love Alex samoi yeah I very much respect him and I'd love to he's got so much value to to share and he's just way

ahead of me by by by quite Far but that is it's not good advice man because here's the thing right if you let's say we do a YouTube video and we really give quite a lot away mhm right well someone is going to watch that and they're going to go and try and do it on their own but there's so much context they don't have MH there's so much they don't know about it because you can't share everything in one video they've also got no coaching they can't ask questions a lot of those People will

take what's there try it and fail and be like that guy he doesn't know what he's talking about cuz that didn't work for me but it doesn't work for you because that's one little thing there you don't know this this this this you haven't been able to ask me questions I it just it's out of context so if you give bits and Bobs away even if it is real the tangible stuff A lot of people are going to fail and they're going to Blame you it's not done right so really it's a disservice this is

why training programs exist this is why coaching programs exist because that's where you get it all and you do it properly you know that's why they exist because I mean I guess you could put a training program on YouTube right you can do that but even then there's more to it man of course this is why people buy programs this is why people um buy the book and everything is in that book but they Still come for the coaching because there's more to it man well at the end of the day people want the accountability

right people need the accountability I asked you about the the weight that you've lost and how fit you've gotten and I said you have a CO coach I've just passed two years on my fitness coach yeah dude I don't need him to tell me what [ __ ] macros to eat anymore but I I'm with him for the accountability you know that that Element of accountability so it's that extra layer that you pay above yeah I think I guess like the and this is a really good conversation with people so I think I asked this

to Jack Hopkins I know you've worked with Jack is like sometimes with offers isn't isn't offer misleading and his his point sometimes was like well you have to be a dumbass to look at an offer and think it's going to happen without any effort and sacrifice you Have to realize an offer comes with effort and sacrifice and if we extrapolate that to content it's like you need to even think about that more and more because like this content is out of context so therefore you can't assume it's the [ __ ] blueprint you know yeah

it can help people but it won't give them won't give them everything exactly exactly like a client just joined our program a few days ago and he literally said to me on the first Call that I had with him he was like I know what to do but I'm just not sure about how and where and when to do it and I just need you to kind of tell me yeah just cuz you know so that's kind of one element you know people know what to do but they need someone who's actually been there and

done it at a very high level to just fact check them and hold the hand and steer them in the right direction to give them almost like just belief in themselves you know someone Else said to me on on our group call yesterday he said to me look will I kind of knew I had to raise my price but I didn't dare but when you told me I was like fine I you know I will because you know and I don't know so I know what to do but there's something else there it's it's not

the knowing it's the I'm not describing this very well you you almost permission from someone who really knows what they're doing because you kind of don't really know what you're doing yet Yeah so you doubt yourself a bit you know what I mean so so what's the concept so of the W not ho well not how is basically if you tell people how right like I just said MH they'll try and do it almost certainly fail because it's out of context and they don't have you behind them and then they'll blame you and they'll be

no better off anyway they'll be worse off in many cases wow is this right imagine we met in a coffee Shop and you were like oh well what what do you do and I'd basically say well I help people sell information right and if they have like a talent to teach that to other people if they have like specialist knowledge on dating or how to uh uh approach girls or stop drinking alcohol right I help them monetize that and sell it through like an online course or a coaching program or something like that so you

know what I do but you have No idea how right or you might say to me well like how do they do that though and I'd say well basically there's four pillars there's like traffic so eyeballs and they get people to know about that and what they do number one and then they send that into like a sales process where they add a bit of value and explain how it works and then they get them on usually a sales call and then we'll see see if they're a good fit and if they are they'll tell

them about the Program and close them into the program right so again now you kind of know what to do get traffic somehow put them in a sales process get them on a call and close them but you still don't know how to build a funnel or what funnel right you have no idea about a sales script or handling objections or framing or anything on and on and on so you know what it is but you don't know how to do it it's like wow but not how that's the way I I describe it and

that's how you Should keep all your content you know I did a very tactical video recently about the last funnel and I showed the funnel showed all the steps all the pages all the numbers even for it but I didn't show you how to write the copy for an optin or the copy for a vssl or give you the sales script or talk to you about pricing and deliverables so even tactical video so strategy without the tactics and that goes back to expert Secrets right it's Russell brunson's Expert Secrets yeah that's which is like the

vision versus the uh the detail pretty much pretty much and and to be fair that actually apart from YouTube you kind of can't teach the tactics in like a LinkedIn post or a tweet or even a 60-sec video you can to some degree and I guess some people try stuff it in but like again you need to have your own discernment when you're looking at content to think like okay this is super helpful Wills a g but I need to Obviously invest to be able to figure out this on a proper level you know exactly

exactly this is something else that people don't think about as well newer people when they learn right I've got to get traffic they just try and do they'll do long form they'll do short form they'll do all the platforms but they don't understand different platforms have different like Theses but behind them so for example we we don't make short form because we don't want to Work with short form people MH we only make long for because we want only want to work with long form people you know we only use YouTube because number one it

compounds on itself whereas no other social media platform does but also it's just like uh you can indoctrinate people so so much easier and so much faster yeah as well than Instagram reals and stuff like that so you've got to think long form short form the different platforms and where and Why when it comes to your your thing it's a bit of a deep deep topic but I I agree man cuz I haven't been able to crack Twitter I tried it and I was like oh [ __ ] I have so much things going on

YouTube for me is working LinkedIn is working for the business YouTube's working for the podcast why do we need to open it up you know and Instagram using Instagram as well but does that make sense like you don't need to go jumping at everything it's almost like Focusing on in on your own a genius if you like long form and you enjoy doing it yeah perfectly fine there's nothing wrong with that you made a good point about guys coming true and then paying for the accountability and whatnot something that I'm actually just struggling with like

at a personal level is is the difference between our done for you offer and done with you offer is that the done with you offer is not meant to be super super one to one all The time right there's meant to be more of a group group element but I find myself just my own personal attachment is that I actually want to be super close to every member at all time um which is obviously like not scalable but I'm still able to do it it's still fine but I guess for people like what are they

how much touch points should you be having in a group coaching setting when you're trying to build like a group coaching program and build this up Because there's no rule book right that's there's no real book yeah you're completely right and people this is very common like people dude dude dude dude like I I had someone come to me recently and they had a $99 a month school okay with a course inside it and two or three group calls a week and a oneto one every two weeks for [ __ ] $99 in total why

[ __ ] bother literally you know for that [ __ ] Price point and um yeah I mean he couldn't run ads because the price is too low and you're struggling with traffic and stuff I was said dude you're way over Delivery Man way I mean it's it's good for the customer but the customers are ripping you off like big probably getting the wrong customers too and getting the wrong customers massively as well so just this is kind of one thing that I've been thinking about recently is how much do I need to give people

for them to succeed you know and the best customers the people I mean everybody's different some people do need more some people do need less some people are more self- sustaining some some aren't so it's a bit of a balance but yeah I think I think what we what we do is is super dialed right now man what what are what Are your programs and prices so what we are done for you offer um that's like the we do everything run the podcast end to end so that's like between three to 5K a month and

that's running well for the past two years P runs everything I'm not even involved in the business anymore um and then the done witht you is a coaching program so we started at 3K one off and it's a cohort so it's eight it's eight weeks it runs in sprints and then we have course material Like six seven hours of course material very very detailed on growing managing scaling your podcast and monetizing and then weekly live calls from there and then tree want to ones on myself but we're going to be doing a few master classes

too like getting in you know people like Rob lipid all the kind of big kind of guys in the space and we're going to increase it to 5K take off the cohort so leave it as an openend the coaching program and then bring the Coaching calls down to one a month one to one one to one keep obviously the weekly but um yeah so that's kind of where we're thinking of scaling up to CU it's growing right similar to you it's just getting bigger and bigger and bigger every day and the systems are getting sharper

and the deliver is getting good and so on and so forth but it might just kind of problem with that is like is like I'm still thinking in my head how Much should you be in slack specifically solving problems because learning from experience you made a great point in your book which is you know build a product that you want to build I've been in a ton ton of programs man very expensive programs you'd write a question in and no one would respond at all and then it would go like 3 4 days we just

had a conversation this morning saying new is every common gets responded to within two hours I was like Let's just set a standard and if we don't know it our team in uh East Coast will say Dar will get back to when he's awake in four hours time or whatever so but again we're we're making this up right yeah dude this is the thing I mean we're all making it up you know like no one no what one of my favorite quotes right is there's no such thing as an adult [Music] like no one really

knows but you just Kind of learn and some people have just learned more and some people have just learned less right so I I I always I always think that there is no such thing as an adult no one really knows what what they're doing you just learn along the way and dial it in for you but if there's ever a concept that I really believe in it's like make what you would want yeah for sure you know that's that that's that's what I do I just price it what as I was want uh make

it as I would Want I think that works well and I think recurring High ticket is the one like this is one big thing that I've learned that I don't think really people have caught on to yet like recurring allows your best clients to stay much longer so if you're selling like a you know 3K program for let's say three months or whatever then it's just there's an end to it there's no you're not really building it to to continue Y and you know when people stay long You can not only get a massive LTV

for yourself to grow your business further but you're just letting them give you more money if they want to which has been a massive thing for us man it's and there's so much peace of mind when you go into a month and you know you've got like whatever it 230k due in before you've got new customers and yet some of it's going to churn of course but it calms you down sleep easier at night money yeah you sleep easier I Think I've been scarred from that last [ __ ] business bro I learned from you

about that cuz you were saying you said every month you'd go from zero and I was in my head I was like that's weird cuz like we only did recurring then and it wasn't it wasn't 400k a month but it was 40 50 and I'd wake up in first of January or 1 of February and I wouldn't have any I wouldn't have any issues paying payroll put it that way um but then I have the other curse which is you Get less people through the door like there's always an EB and flow right and that's

why it's like is it agency is it info is it SAS there's an EB and there's a strong there's a negative and positive everything but what I love about the book and about what you guys were doing was that you get them in 8 and 1 12K and then you have the backend software or maybe coaching or so on and so forth that can add the LTV that's what most people aren't doing they're selling the One thing they burn the lead they burn the customer and they move on that is what most people are doing

and you've got to again we were saying this earlier right but there's different seasons so there's a season where you need to make money right you know when people get into business it's usually to sort out their financial life you know so that's kind of one season then the next is when You' when you've TI the money box there's there was this question that That I once asked myself so I went downstairs in the building in Dubai that I live in with my journal and I asked myself this question if I had $10 million in

cash in the bank right now and I could just do whatever I wanted keep the business turn it off work or or not work travel not travel what I could do [ __ ] anything what would I want to do with my days you know when the sitting on the beach wears off and the being bored wears off what are You going to bloody do man you know and my answer was my the thing that I wanted to do was just talk about business that was basically the answer that I wrote just just just do

and talk about business um because this is like my favorite thing in the world and that's an important question for people to think about man because that's usually what you should be doing you know make you can't always go and do that straight away because you don't Have that Bloody money unfortunately but that's what you should be doing so that just helps you realize where you should be going yeah if that makes sense 100% man yeah I like that and I think it's interesting for you because you've had the you've had the cash you've sold

you've had that feeling the realization of selling and you've had the opportunity to go again so like you feel you feel the money gap for sure and then health wealth and relationships Will always come back to get you right you can't escape it if your Health's and [ __ ] it's going to chase you right yeah man there's a few points I want to pull out that um I really that really really hit me hard so I want to go into the sales process so I think what's interesting about sales is that you know whether

you identify that you're [ __ ] at sales you think that you're okay sometimes pinpointing why you're not good at something is difficult unless You're recording them and having maybe someone watch your sales videos which I'm actually only doing recently and something that I really liked was you mentioned around why now so getting people to understand why now to act and if I was to ever look back on my sales process and think why we're not closing would probably be that element not necessarily urgency but just relevancy to act now what do you think about

that well I just love sales calls man I just Love I just love because I just love talking to people and learning about people and like I I can just sell with so much conviction when I know that it's right for them and I love objection handle no I like pre- objection solving I one of my favorite things is when you remove an objection and then it's just they almost don't they can't not buy yeah like when you've removed all objections they can't not buy because you've you've made them Realize in their head you know

why do you want to do this now though well dude if I don't do it now then when am I going to do it you know I've waited all this time to do it and and I and I still haven't done it why haven't you done it yet I just couldn't find the right program do you think this is the right program or 100% I really believe right so what you're saying is now is the time yeah yeah this is the perfect program for you yeah yeah yeah and like you said Earlier you've got more

than enough Capital to afford it right as well yeah yeah sounds good so now they can't say they can't afford it they can't say they need to [ __ ] think about it you know so the only option is to close it's funny man I I think do you think guys in your seat are not willing to to push to say to say why now like like why why can't we look a bit deeper instead of um I I interviewed um was it was it Michael Glover Robert Glover recently and he wrote about um no

more No More Mr Nice Guy name of his book and he said a big issue people have especially guys around rejection whether it's sales or women is they don't want to be faced with the rejection so let's say you have a connection we talk well and then I say oh do you want to buy to my Ser do you want to talk about my service and in set of faing the rejection we'd almost just say no and just Cop Out same with a girl Right you talk to a girl she gives you all the signals

you don't ask for the number though and guys are more willing to to accept a feed versus get rejected and that could be a micro example of how it extrapolates up into men selling right do you want to launch a podcast for your business but you don't know where to start remove the stress pressure and all the overwhelm that comes with it by working with podcast University if you're an ambitious Individual who wants to build your influence online grow your own podcast and also stand out from the crowd podcast University is for you we help

you with a strategy equipment the content your guests everything you need to create a top tier podcast if you want to learn more check out podcast University and start your podcast Journey today yeah definitely man I mean no one likes rejection you know we've all got kind of os to to some level but I think the the thing that really makes you good at stales it's intangible it's not needing the sale truly not needing the sale right and really believing that it's good for the person you can't fake that you can't buy that you can't

train that mhm you know so if you need those things you're in a much worse position like if you are like a a a broke closer and you're trying to make money you need the sales and you really want the sales you know and you may also Be selling an offer that you don't fully believe in but but you're just there to to make money and get paid and some people that in that season I respect that season man cuz we've all got to pay our rent and eat food and pay for the car loan

and blah blah blah so I fully respect that that that situation but good God is it going to be much harder manh because you're not doing it with integrity and it's it comes across you can't fake real you can Sensor yeah you sense that that anxiety you can't you can't fake the realness man you're either you know you've you've got that energy or you haven't mhm yeah tell me about leaving the room to get a cup of coffee oh oh this works so well this work it's just this is it's it's I almost didn't believe

I'll never forget the first time I ever did it literally I just moved to Dubai I was in this apartment I was on a sales call back when I used to take Sales calls and I just needed a piss really bad and we got to the to the close and um I just found the time and and he was like oh yeah just let me get my card or some [ __ ] I was like dude you do that I'm going to nip to the bathroom you know so I honestly went to the bathroom and

I think I I learned so much from that cuz when I came back the guy literally said to me did you do that on purpose because I was a bit scared about buying but as soon as you out of the Room I could clear I could think much clearer and now I understand that I should buy did you do that on purpose I was like no I really didn't do that on purpose you know so I learned and then I tried it again like not on purpose and it's just a little hack man that works

so well just to give people space to think so when they say let me think about it you actually let them think about it you get up and you walk out of the room exactly Yeah but you've got to do it with confidence you've got to literally say dude no problem at all tell you what I've just got to make a quick coffee anyway so let me leave that with you I'll be back in two seconds and get up and go you can't hesitate and you've got to be ready to do it as well it

it's again it so this goes back to you know being comfortable in your skin not needing the sale and so on and so forth so if you have that conviction you can Get up and be like all right I'll give you two minutes and the other thing that I really enjoyed was the fact you mentioned around the 70-year-old man curiosity oh that's I I love that man just in being like Oh like why is it like this right yeah oh what what made you think about that well again seriously the uh the coffee thing was

really real like so I just I was literally someone said that to me and I just thought Well right literally let me just go make a quick coffee and I'll just leave it with you for a minute and I just happened to do it so naturally and so smoothly because it was real and then again I learned from it because then when I came back he had literally had time to think about he was still there and then he just couldn't object and then he he bought and I thought wow that worked well I'm going

to do that again so all this [ __ ] just happens to me and Then if it works I'm like wow I've just learned something there and then I do it and it's and it really works so that's that and then the Curiosity thing is just a good calm way of getting everything that you need out of people for you and for them because sales calls in my opinion are just helping them make the best decision for them and people are not good at making decisions because if they were they'd be they'd be very successful

you know because success is Just good decisions in in order over time you know so if you are not good at making decisions you're going to make bad decisions and you're going to [ __ ] up your life basically and wonder what happened so it's our job to help them make good decisions when it's appropriate for them and again like I was saying a second ago if you are attracting the right prospects to your offer and you know the right problems that you can and can't Solve then it's your duty to fully understand the person

and help them just understand and and see the value and if you can really help them you've got to really tell them and and and convey it and doing that in the right way will will raise your Clause rate dramatically man and that that Curiosity just sit with it don't rush through it you know if someone gives you a [ __ ] answer don't move forwards just just chill and just go a little bit deeper with them and Just stroke your chin and just think you know sometimes I like to just go quiet and then

you know just let people carry on talking and get you know and then they tell themselves cuz when people are talking they tell themselves you know so if you say why now you know why not six months ago why not wait and do this in six months why now shut up and just let them think and let them talk and if they give you a bad answer You' be Like and just wait and then they'll tell you more just these little hacks man it's like the um it's a subtle social cues and I remember I

remember the first big client I ever closed and remember distinctly cuz I [ __ ] it up several times afterwards which is funny um h on a call asked them where they are their podcast and everything and they went for like 28 minutes and because my internet was kind of shaky they just kept on going and they were like this is the Problem this is the problem this is how we want to fix it this is what we want to do this where we are and they like yeah so at the end like I think

this is basically like this is basically what you're doing right and this is exactly what we're doing and I was like yeah absolutely and they spoke for 28 minutes of the 30 minutes at the very end it was like okay and it was the fact that they had opened the loops closed the loops open the loops created the questions and So on and so forth and because there was two of them there was um a manager and like a director they were just discussing between each other to some degree and I was just the person

that solved the problem in the end and uh that was over a year ago same client as what us to today it's just an interesting observation right the the there are questions that you can ask where people will close themselves what one of my favorite questions to ask Is why can't you just do this on your own and then people say well if I could do it on my [ __ ] own it'd be done already you know or like well I I obviously I don't know how that's why we're on this call you know

it's a stupid question but it's very powerful because they will sell themselves you know so they will say well dude if I could do it on my own it would be done that's why I'm on this call oh yeah that makes sense so you're here because yeah I mean you can't do this on your own I mean what what else have you tried oh well I've tried this and I've tried this and I've tried that got it man so basically I mean it sounds like you really are stumped and and you I mean it sounds

like you really need help with this right well yeah obviously right so now the it's they will they'll tell themselves I'm here to buy basically because otherwise what the [ __ ] am I doing here it sounds simple and and Almost stupid but good God is that a powerful question man well a lot of life is making things as simple as possible Right reducing the friction and not over complicating things obviously understanding all these things you need to do in the back end your metrics and all and all this these other elements but it's interesting

to observe this last thing I want to ask you about on this on the sales side which was very new to me was a temperature check oh Dude that is dude that is critical man you just can't not do that yeah when we learned this in the last company it really changed the game because without the temp check people have unanswered questions and OB objections and you just go into the close then they give you the questions and objections you know but if you say to them you know what what is what what is in

the book in the in the script I can't remember it word for word by this stage but basically cool so with Everything that that we've covered you know one thing that's really important to us is alignment you know so before we go any further I just want to pause here and check that we are in alignment so scale of 1 to 10 where where are you at you know zero look thanks for the call but this is just not for me 10 dude this sounds amazing it sounds perfect it's exactly what I need I'm all

in let's go where are you on the scale and they basically tell you how ready They are to buy nine or 10 they are ready to pay Man 10 they are ready to pay immediately five don't go anywhere near the closeing the price man for God's sakes because they're just going to object and leave so it's your last chance to say okay F five out of 10 well I really appreciate you sharing that what's stopping you from being like a nine or a 10 if you don't mind me asking and then you get the real

stuff H I Wonder how much time do you put into following up with leads afterwards I know you mentioned the book that like you obviously the followup and so on so forth but are you going back to your CRM or would you determine some of them as dead after a while because I feel like I'm investing time into leads that are effectively dead but they're in the CRM so you just keep batter keep batting them down on CRM and I do have a lot of people who bought in 2023 that came in 2022 in 2024

who came in 2023 now that does happen but I do think that there has to be a tradeoff sometimes right yeah definitely well you should absolutely follow up but from from my own experience this is just my experience um if you can get people subscribed to your YouTube channel that is your followup you know and people when I used to take sales calls for this offer right because I've still got the tracking sheet and my close rate On that tracking sheet there's about 140 50 calls on there and right as of now I'd closed about

61% of them right but the only reason that's that figure is because honestly about 12 13 14% of that is follow-ups coming in over time right so at the time the close rate might have been whatever like 45% 50% whatever but it's really surprised me how many people have slowly come back and bought but with no follow-up right because they're seeing the YouTube Videos and it's literally just the YouTube videos and a bit of my Instagram so that is the followup the content is the followup well that's certainly been the case for me are you

familiar with Colin Yorkers no he was uh he actually helped Jack Hopkins with his personal brand years ago Collins based in Miami big personal brand Guy and um his approach to this is let's say you're putting out all the content on YouTube or link or Instagram easier example and A guy comes in and say hey bro like what's the program and you're like oh it's 8 and a2k and whatever and he goes instead of you following up you just get back to what you were doing putting out the [ __ ] content cuz that's as

you mentioned that's the followup and then every single day he's seeing this guy hammering the feed same messaging same positioning getting better growing seeing all the the wins and improvements and then the guy comes back down like Four weeks later and bites because you know maybe in that instance he just wasn't ready or he was trying to figure things out or Wai until he gets paid or or whatever which is what he dm'd you so instead of putting the time into that put the time into the content that was what drove people in the first

place without a doubt yeah cuz I mean content brought them there so it might not be the right time but if you keep making that wow knut how content keep stressing The problem adding value as well sharing testimonials with them testimonials carry carry a lot of weight man testimonials really really help it's it's a matter of time if if they're men are buy they'll buy given given time you know and this is I think we we touched on this a little bit earlier I think when we were chatting outside but we might might have been

earlier but I think sales calls people are getting wise to sales calls now they kind of Know what it is and how it works so I think selling through a document in the DM is becoming more of a thing it doesn't allow you to scale as far that's a fact but depending on the business that you're trying to build that gets you good quality customers though because they buy of their own free will so they're 100% self- sold basically so you get almost no no refunds no charge backs no bad customers no bad fits everyone's

a joy To work with you know when it's they've come in 100% of their own decision that's that's that's what I see but equally there's a lot of people that you do leave unclosed that via sales C could have been closed but it's kind of what do you want do you want to scale far or do you just want to chill and like James Kemp now yeah you know I get you well it's funny you said that because for our coaching program right now Trek price point 80 I think about 60% of people who Bought

didn't take a call they just bought straight from a webinar or from an email you know they just bought straight and the other 40 then had it so I think the reason I'm saying this is because I think that gives us a lot of Merit to scale do you get me there's a lot of good metrics there to be able to scale um and to be honest a lot of this was very uh it was curiosity driven actually what happened was I got den den fever it's like malaria and I was lying In bed like

this for a week straight like Den is [ __ ] up man and I couldn't even think and then I was just messaging and I was like I think it's time to build a coaching program it's only like a month ago and I'm lying in my office on the bed be in mind is a bed and I have the Whiteboard and I'm just writing on the Whiteboard like maybe we'll do this so I followed your approach was we built we we sold it with nothing built and then we backfilled everything Because it's all in the

head but it was 50 sales calls what are you struggling with I'm struggling with this okay we can do that I'm strugg with this we can do this and then we just built it out in here about a week or two ago so sick man but I think it's just interesting because like that def but to be honest have you ever read The Lean Startup by Eric Ry I actually haven't first ever book I I ever read a business book I was given to it in College and the whole concept is you have a hypothesis

so you can help people build and exit their business and then instead of building something you put it out you go speak to people and you walk around the town and then you build what they say or you change what they say and you just build a solution and the and this book started the early 2000s and it was because all the San Francisco startups would be these nerds in MIT thinking I'm going to build this super Computer would spend [ __ ] 200 million building a computer that no one would ever use so all

these Silicon Valley startups were failing and this guy just said stop being such a [ __ ] nerd go outside and speak to people about the problems that you have and then build a solution and as a result that that started a whole new wave of startups uh early 2000s yeah dude I've just made a YouTube video about this saying it's called something like you don't start a Business with a product you start a business with a customer and the the whole point is basically like back when I was a musician when I was younger

right I would basically make products make tracks yeah exactly I'd make the tracks then be like please like them you know please please play them and just shove them in people's faces and hope for the best but that's the right way to do it that that you've just said where you go out in business at least and say Look what is the problem you have the sales calls and just just serve survey people and ask them what's their problem what they pay to solve blah blah blah and then you just get the problem then build

the solution and just [ __ ] give it to them and this happened with the the trading education company because I had no want to desire or anything to build that education company I was just trading and I had a Twitter and someone asked me one day can you please coach me And I was like dude no problem $50 come to my house and then he made a Word document himself of his notes I kept that and sold it to a few of the followers or tried to sell it and it did sell so he

made my product he was my product Market fit he did all the work for me and then I just took what worked for him and did it with other people and that worked then they started saying oh will can we put images in there can we what's this about what broker do we use And they just told me to how to make the product and then as they told me I raised the price and then eventually it went from a Word document to like a more of an ebook thing and then a Dropbox folder of

videos and I just kept listening to the feedback making it better and better and better and better raising the price then I learned the rest and the rest is history man so that's that's how it's done yeah I love it man so something that I'm definitely Struggling with myself is is is ADS the concept of ads I think it's a limiting belief I have which is like and it's crazy because I hire people but I wouldn't put the money in ads I don't know it's a liin belief I don't know I need to overcome that

and I think like I've focused so much on content a lot of guys will focus on content they're coming from their hosi style stuff where you just blast loads of content and they're transitioning Over to to ATS when would you make that transition when would you make that transition or would you ever go now that you've done both how do you think about the paid versus organic route dude you're asking me this at the exact right time because we've just finally turned on paid ads last Monday or not where are we now Monday today what

day is it today I don't even know what day this is what happens in barley there are no days it's just Life in I don't know what day it is Tuesday Tu Tuesday we we've had ads running for a week and a half two two and a half weeks something like that not very long like 15 20 days and basically so before ads right this year if you average it out we'd be doing about 280 a month cash collected Jesus Christ or they about two 27 8090 a month cash collected about a 91% profit margin

YouTube and sales calls that's it me two sales reps one virtual Assistant YouTube sales calls they buy one of the programs that's all we were doing now we've got the book though right I've done a a book funnel so I paid do you know who Alan sultanic is um yeah I know the name very famous uh copywriter I paid him and his team to help me with with my book funnel anyway so we're running Facebook and Instagram ads to a long form sales page selling the 12.95 ebook with a $47 little bump MH um for

Like a 1 hour training essentially U behind the scenes training and with those ads depending on the on the week we're just above or just below break even and then all the sales calls are completely free oh I get you right because we paid for the customers then we get the customers to book sales calls for the coaching and as of now that's 12.1x cash at the moment so for every dollar we spend on ads we make about $12 back How do you calculate that like so the way we we calculate it is let's say

we spend simplest way to describe it let's say we spend $100 on ads we make about $100 back from the book right and let's say we bought 10 customers well they're free they're free customers right if one of them then buys a product for $1,200 we spent a 100 someone buy something for 1200 well we 12x mhm you know 12x X XR and that's about where we are just above 12 that's an info product they're buying Then they're buying they coaching which is info person or personal to you so we we've got three programs um

$4,000 a month group coaching $99,000 a month one toone coaching uh $155,000 a month done for you built and coaching and it's basically just proximity to me you know group is a group call one to one is anytime one to one done for you is anytime one to one and by WhatsApp and the training program and and blah blah blah blah blah it's it's a mixture of That stuff in there but basically my point is ads are the only reason we made the money in the last company because it was 95% paid ads right and

basically ads [ __ ] work so just [ __ ] run them right cuz basically they just [ __ ] work they definitely work it's just not knowing how to do them properly like you do you do them on YouTube Correct now YouTube was your main focus for ads right or oh yeah back then it was it was all YouTube 100% YouTube ads and now you're you're looking at Facebook and stuff so so these are probably really stupid questions but like ask away and hopefully this is valuable for other people right because the problems that

I face or problems that other people have even though like I could be a lot further on or a lot further behind but how do you segment like where where do you look for ads like what what are you trying to do are you trying to make sure You're doing on Facebook Instagram is it going to be different we talked about platform agnostic right how different platforms are do they show up differently or you know are these things that you were considering or you just like no [ __ ] it this is the system this

is the process I've seen in the book as well right in terms of the execution I think you're over complicating it 100% you know I mean with the book funnel that I just told You about basically we run let's just keep it simple we run Facebook ads and they just basically aggravate pain or offer a solution and they're like basically do you know how much money you can make selling info if you've got a talent or a skill or specialist knowledge you should be selling info and if you don't know how you should buy this

book basically click this ad and go and learn about the book that's basically what the ads are In different ways of saying that that's it and then people see that and they're like oh yeah I didn't know that oh wow this sounds awesome click and and then they're on the sales page and the sales page is is a you it's a [ __ ] beast you got to see this bloody sales page but it's a [ __ ] huge sales page with everything you would ever need to know testimonials proof the problems the solutions the

pains the reasons to buy it blah blah Blah blah blah blah massive sales page and then the whole idea is they read that and it either it basically makes them want to buy right and then they buy and then they can buy the 47 upsell if they want it about 52% of people buy that um currently anyway and then we just saw happen at the moment to again just above or below break even on the that front end and then we're buying loads of this is the thing we're buying we're getting Buyer leads right so

they are the best leads you can possibly get because they've bought from us once or twice already and hopefully they love the book and they love the the rest of it so they have a good experience then they like us and trust us we they see that we're the real deal and then we just basically do everything in our power to get them on a sales call to buy the coaching if it's appropriate and if the time is right and if it's a good fit so that's it just ads That aggravate the pain or offer

the solution something here usually a vsl typically or a long form sales page and then get them on a call and and get them in the bloody program yes I think the problem I had in my head previously was the fact that for a done for you offer there was like a ton of decision makers and were selling to bigger Enterprises so it's harder to get to the champion whereas for what we're doing in the coaching Side of business it's not complicated like it is very straightforward it's do you have a podcast that's struggling is

it does it make no money is it slowing down is it not helping your business here's the solution here's what we can do and then a lot of those guys will Ascend like you know it wasn't really the intention but a lot of people already want to ascend into the done for you offer which is their which is a retainer um so it's basically just Serving people at different price points which is kind of why I was I'm really happy with what we're building right now because it seems like before it was like you had

to be such a high criteria it was like a million dollar plus company and had to have the budget told me you know and it was just it was just so complicated and there's still there's still a lot of people like that in the world but it's just hard to get to them right because it's just like it was it Was just even I'm [ __ ] find it hard to get to them whereas the other one it's like an Andi statement it's just everybody else so I think this can be helpful for people in

their businesses because you know I've over complicated it I'm trying to simplify a lot of this stuff right now and I'm kind of working through that process yeah man it's interesting yeah ads are hard and sometimes impossible when you're in the nichest of niches you Know if you're trying trying to sell to like bloody highlevel CEOs that are behind seven doors ads almost certainly aren't going to work you know but if you were selling more like that offer that's that's easy for ads because the problem is so obvious you know do you have a podcast

that is struggling or that's not doing what you want it to do or whatever well we've got the solution man click the ad and I'll tell you about it on the next page you know and then they land on The vssl and then it's like right you know this is probably your problem if it is this is our solution you know this is what we've done in the past this is our reputation blah blah blah book in a call and let's just discuss to see if if it' be a good fit get them on a

call get them closed if it's a good fit you know cool man it's really simple yeah it it's really simple but you should really just simplify a lot of the things in general As in like you know even myself just simplify the process then fresh principles dude you know how I was saying earlier like I had a client come to me a few days ago and he was like I know what to do but I'm not doing it that's you you know what to do but you're not doing it but I also feel like sometimes

that you get caught up doing other stuff right yeah like like we're so big on Outreach and uh that's been a blessing and a curse I will say now it's Made me a lot of money but it's a it's a lot of work and I'm good at it I'm naturally good at it and it's a i it's definitely a blessing in a curse because I find it so hard to maintain but I know that it works this is a problem you know I can book a bunch of calls from it I know it works but

I I it's just something that I think has almost given me like golden handcuffs just cuz like you know it works um I don't know there's there's two different ways to do It and then it's funny when I had sales reps as well they're like Jesus Christ This is complicated just because like you know it's a cursor ground the knowledge what you know and you're very good at explaining things I know for sure but I suppose if you were to do something for someone you'd be like oh it's like this and this and this again

it's all the tangents right um I don't know I just kind of I guess I enjoy it to some degree so what I'm trying to say Is that I'm definitely opening up my time now to be able to put more time into these other levers to pull and I have the cash as well you know when I was [ __ ] starting out I was kind of like you know but now yeah if if of course this is like scalable which I think it is is the main thing this this goes back to what we

were saying earlier about when you're on a sales call if you need the sale it's harder yeah or when you're running ads if you like if that Is your money to pay your rent and your bills and eat food I do not suggest running ads you know if you can approach ads with like let's just spend a couple Grand and see what happens buy the data let's see where the numbers are you know and then when you know the numbers maybe there's a little bottleneck it's like okay well let's spend another one or two grand

and try and fix the bottleneck you've got to approach it with with that kind of thing like it's an investment Yeah and Investments go down sometimes don't always work out straight away but Sab subie probably said this to you but I truly believe like ads is the number one highest Roi thing that you could possibly do on Earth you know you know no no other investment vehicle can get you you know 1,000% Roi per month cash predictively like a system it's [ __ ] crazy man like people I I seriously don't think people know how

profitable ads can be I think one of your your your One of advantages too is uh your tracking right I think your data and your metrics are like super on point how do you do that and it's not um let's it's it's autom like how do you automate cuz you've done a lot of tracking and whatnot is this pulling from I don't know click funnels this pulling from go high level like how do you think about data because for a lot of companies even our company to some degree we could get the numbers but it

would definitely Involve more work to to have them super [ __ ] Crystal 24/7 would you do the work if you could quadruple your money every month for sure yeah we'll [ __ ] do the work then no seriously seriously though I was a bit tongue and cheap but no of course like I mean dude our tracking right now is basically hyros see the buyer leads from the ads and then when they book a call we can See that in hyro so then we know which calls came from the Facebook ads and then I just

get my VA we just got a spreadsheet with a list of all the Facebook calls and then we write you know was it a attended or no show or canceled or rescheduled and then if they both you know and then we just got a list of the taken calls and all all that stuff it's quite simple you know it's it's our what we're doing now is really quite simple actually um the front ends A bit more heavy to track cuz we got to track bloody the book sales and the upsell sales and the the bloody

clicks and oh it's that's a bit more complicated than the the cold tracking interesting I like it I like I feel like a this sounds so gay but I feel like it's like a little game it's like a scienic little game and when you win you make [ __ ] tons of money so it's a really fun I just love it man I just love all the numbers and seeing What effects it and how you can make more from it and it's just it's sick I just love it so to confirm you're kind of making

your own dashboards basically like within in spreadsheets yeah okay that's that was kind of more more my question because uh that's what I observed myself um I remember I was doing like a lot of it manually and I was thinking like oh like there must be an easier way just to automate it but it actually was Um you could actually do it though true cly you probably could as in you could pull the values uh you talk about the um uh survey mathematics yeah yeah change the game yeah so funny enough I actually was thought

that as well from from a different a way simpler example which was just to rate the scores 1 to four 1 to four 1 to four 1 to four so basically on countly having a bunch of questions but just think it's interesting because not a lot of people do that uh I think You Tau me about that initially but most people don't don't do that all at all and then therefore they get a bunch of [ __ ] leads so the reason I'm saying this is because I used to pack that up with questions on

my C not book calls and then I started to take out some of the most more aggressive questions yeah and then it it it it balanced back out which was nice the biggest one I had this is actually interesting observation so for most marketing agencies they'll have at The bottom like can you pay the 5,000 a month retainer if you're a good fit I had that I took that off and bookings tripled yeah yeah swear to God it was that me but but I'd seen that so often yeah that that was the reason why I

was like oh [ __ ] I'll include it and then I swear to God our our booking rate went down loads as a result are you an entrepreneur who wants to build your influence and Authority online you may Have tried some of the hacks and tricks but none of it has worked and it makes sense 90% of podcasts don't make it to episode 3 of the 10% that are left 90% of them don't make it to episode 20 that's where Vex comes in Vox creates manages and grows your podcast for you on your behalf if

you've not been getting leads not been growing consistently you haven't found your tribe and you don't know what to do Vox is the answer don't just take our word For it in the past couple of years we've managed over 35 podcast we've also been able to generate over 55 million views with 500 episodes produced and not only that generating over $1 million for a clients in products services and sponsorships so if you want to learn more about how you can build a great podcast have a fully managed for you schedule a call with me at

Vox and we will help you achieve your podcast goals you've got to test this stuff man you've Got to put questions on take questions off you know just play with it and um it's just all like a scientific test and it's again it's I think it's fun because when you nail it you make more money it's quite rewarding to solve the puzzle you know so FR friction is is an important thing through a funnel at first you just want to book CO's man like we were saying earlier just take call learn from the people and

just slowly add the friction in depending on Who you're getting you know what's your talks now like the future of like the online education space you think it's going to keep booming like where do you think the online business space is going I think it's going to be I think it's going to get a lot lot lot lot bigger man I don't I think don't people don't really understand it yet people don't really see how powerful it is and and how it can seriously change people's lives you know in a way that College University and

school can't and don't you know it's just because you're learning from True experts well not always but but but in in many cases you're learning from True experts directly you know and it's just awesome man yeah I think uh this is a emerging industry that will will only get bigger and better over time and I think we're starting to see the bad players get pushed out as people know what funnels are they know what sales Calls are I want to ask you about pricing so one thing that I found very interesting was perceived value versus

value uh and this is definitely something that in my head I've I've struggled with over time which is almost the concept of in trading you're giving people an opportunity to make more money or financial advice or investing or the markets or a business you're giving them the opportunity in the information to learn more but there's some other things Like a podcast like taking photos of birds uh like I don't even know knitting maybe that is much more value based how do you think about the pricing for things that are a bit more obscure that's a

good question that's a good question man well when I think about pricing I usually think of two things so what's like the long-term value and I try and quantify it it's either money in which case it's easy to quantify or if it was like say knitting The value is more well it's intangible number one but it's like what would what would the value be of being surrounded by like-minded others who you can form friendships with and do your passion and your hobby with it is valuable so that's kind of one part of the equation and

then the other is based on the Avatar how much can they even afford though like how much do they on average make how much do they on average having savings and you kind of try and put the Two together you know so the pictures of birds guy it's kind of easy because people generally that take pictures of birds they're older and they're quite wealthy generally um so and they've got a lot of time on their hands and they really love it so they've got money there is value there some of them want to do like

uh the gallery shows and show their pictures off and stuff so that kind of makes sense to be a 3K 5K offer you know It's not Skyhigh it's not cheap but to the right person they will pay that but you've got a price test as well because no one really knows what's going to work until you take it to the market so start at three try three try four try five try six you know and you'll find one that works the best you know yeah it's a very interesting observation because like to some person again

it goes back to the Feedback you get right if if you don't have thck skin in the game and someone's like [ __ ] hell 4K for photos you would think oh my God okay let's go down to the $9 like the guy last time where if you're like okay there is a lot of value here we just need to be able to extract that value to for the person and show them we can charge the 4K and we can provide a 4K service it's an interesting observation right it's kind of like goes back to

the entrepreneur as Well you made a good point about pricing is usually an insecurity of the entrepreneur almost always almost always yeah it's an interesting reflection of where people are at and most people undercharge because they've got stuff to learn I mean we all start somewhere M you know you start you don't know so it's better to charge low and and learn and raise it than start too high and kind of mess up so I always say to People I say to people all the time it's like look I think it should be priced at

about five but because you're a brand new I say just start at two and close a few people first look after them get them results and they will you know they'll come a point where you're getting great testimonials people are very happy and you'll start to feel oh this is too cheap man that's the time so you've got to do it with integrity M you know so whilst price is made up kind of Is made up it is it is you've got to be in alignment with it or else you won't sell it well you

you'll you'll you've got like a weird comic kind of debt where you don't believe it's worth that so you scared to sell it and that fee will come across kind of thing you know it's funny do you give any much thought about like the price sensitivity of the buyer because to me 4K seems the same as 5K you know internally sometimes like I've bought AK Pack packages before that if it was six it wouldn't have made a difference just because I know it's a large amount of money that's coming out of my account yeah definely

does that make sense cuz it's it's just kind of the same but not the same because you have money set aside it's not like daily expenditure money yeah well you've got to think you know I mean if we take our group program it's £3,000 about four $4,000 the only reason we even created That program was because back in last year we only had the £7,000 uh one to one and then one of my YouTube videos blew up we got loads of newer people loads of beginners seven it just wasn't right for them it's too high

wasn't a good fit they didn't even need they weren't even ready for the Ono one and we were losing a lot a lot of sales of people that we knew that we could help so then we were like right well what is high enough to stop anyone Buying but low enough you know there's that sweet spot and that sweet spot right now for us is £3,000 a month you know so beginners buy it regularly but only serious beginners per month yeah to be honest we've got people in there that are doing 40K a month 70k

a month cheap bastards he should be in the one to one really someone even said that on the group call yesterday one guy he's just done his first ever six figure cash month and he was like you know I need to Change program now and get one to one but um it's the Ascension model well yeah yeah and we we do see people do that like start up there and go down there or start up there and go down there um but you it's just you got to you just get it from yourself you know

what what kind of customers do you want what can they afford where's the line where it stops anyone coming in and you only get the serious people so and it depends what you want as well because if You if I wanted to scale to the Moon I'd change my prices in what way I'd probably I wouldn't do monthly for one I would do you know instead of 3K a month I do like 8,000 for three or four months instead of 7K a month I do like 20 25,000 for 3 or 4 months so I do

more programs paid up front rather than recurring because you'd make a hell of a lot more cash a lot faster therefore you could spend more on Ads and you could scale further and buy more customers so if I wanted to scale really far that's what I would do so is that the difference between a cohort and an open end the coaching program um it's kind of what do you want I mean do you want maximum up for cash month one or do you want the Peace of Mind of recurring and to give your customers that

trust because it's easier for people to buy when it's cheaper and monthly than It is higher in one time number one but then people can leave if it's not good so it kind of puts a lot of trust in your in your customers and your program's got to be good for them to stay and keep paying but it's it's what do you want you know there's no one way to do it there's no one way there's no right answer you know for me I just love coming into a month and having a big list of

refer of of uh uh renewals you know and I look at the names and I'm Like oh she's definitely going to renew or this guy's crushing it he's definitely going to renew and you know you've got money coming in and you don't have to chase new customers yeah you know and then you have to be better to your customers because you want them to Ren and if you don't do well you know they're not going to renew so it's like a shared responsibility I didn't realize that those coaching programs were per month per month yeah

I didn't I didn't Realize that so that's kind of a that's a unique mechanism on your side right yeah because a lot of them are kind of like oneof or you pay for the year like I know some of the big sales programs the guys I train like very very senior people not not beginning sales guys senior guys it could be like 27k for the year and that's kind of it and yeah they might try to get you in the following year but that's interesting so so that's reoccurring on EX stripe basically yeah It's just

unended and then when they want to leave uh they just ask and we just pause it yeah basically but it's good because you actually make way more yeah you know so in our uh $9,000 us uh program the middle one you know if if they really do well they'll stay for for months and months and months and months and you make so much you know you can make 9 18 27 36 45 54 I think the longest anyone's ever stayed in that program is about six six Or seven months that's a big LTV man like

55 60k cash so during that process are people joining at different stages in the program and learning different material or do you bring them through the same Journey because if they're joining the sales call today we're talking about funnels but then next week we're talking about something different does that mean people come in a different discrepancies well so in the group program yeah everyone's on a group Call in the one to one it's with me anytime one to one calls so they would just book in with me 45 minute slot just me and them and

we work on whatever they need help with m you know so that's that's why they go in that program it's tailored to you personally in the group we do get that I mean there's people on the group call that are doing 21 a month 70 a month 40 a month zero a month you know but it's really good for the new guys because we had a couple of new guys On yesterday's call and one of the first guys was like yeah I've just had my first ever six figure month I joined at 20 I'm now

touching on 115 and it blew their [ __ ] mind and they can see it's real cuz those real guys are there on the call sharing the numbers and strength I and stuff so if anything it's better for the new guys cuz they're in the room with sick people and they can really see what they're doing that's a value the community too Tom mentioned That to me which was you you you'll be surprised how the guys will interact with one another and they'll go off and form friendships and relationships and create content together build businesses

together I I didn't anticipate that but that's that's been quite interesting observation yeah um especially for what for what you're doing because there guys that are literally making cash and they're growing together so whether young and Coming at the same at the same value too right yeah that that is the that's the value of a of a community but we don't have like a chat Community or we don't do support or anything just the the group calls so no no like slack or anything no interesting no nothing why is that because it's [ __ ]

annoying I just hate it you know and I I it's important to me that I love this business so we've got a I've probably Told you this before but the mission statement behind this company make Mone uh make money have fun and help people right and when I'm doing those three things I feel calm I feel happy I feel fulfilled and I just know that I'm in a good spot and when I'm not when one of those is out of alignment I just feel like something is not right something's wrong I'm doing something wrong and

if I had a slack that would not be good that's Funny because some people might hate the one to ones well yeah you know so one of my friends who's an advisor to me but I've actually helped him build a sales uh business a sales coaching business he was the opposite to me so we have very little calls with our clients just whenever they need it yeah um he was the opposite 10 10 calls a day all week and he was like what the [ __ ] is going on and I was like dude we

need to find like a hybrid here but it was just Interesting because he was like oh I don't mind the calls and I was like if I didn't need to take them I wouldn't take them because the US time zones they're like 5 AM 6 AM some some mornings H and that's every week every day you know so I just think it's funny because your natural so so what feels natural to you is being on one toone calls and strategizing finding problems and so on and so forth that could be someone else as hell yeah

You know so that's why it's nice that you've built a business or that you build a business that's in alignment what with the world you want to see dude exactly you know an an ideal business is the one that you you design it to suit yourself you know if you don't like onet to ones man like Dan Bolton I don't don't think he does one to ones really I think he or maybe it's just one of his programs it's like just slack and a course I think I'm sure he said that no No calls it

might be one group call and he was like yeah I don't like one to ones so I don't do them you know I like slack and I was like dude I hate slack but I like the onet to ones though so you just do what you want to do you know and then you stay happy and because you're happy you do better at work and because you do better work you make more money and it is a nice flywheel when you design it that way you know very important cuz I Wasn't happy in the last

business what do you think that was well I had a massive team and I just hated the meetings hated the calls um it was overwhelming and the I wasn't trading anymore at the end of the company so I felt out of a out of alignment and out out of Integrity with the customers and the product as well which grinded on me more and more as time went on because you were basically not doing What you were selling I guess because you were running the company of course exactly exactly I'm very conscious of that with my

podcast that I I'm we're now going to eight a month because I want to be I want to know what's happening in the market to be able to sell what's happening in the market that's if you want to stay ahead that's what you've got to do man so yeah massive Team every month we started from zero which is mad painful mad painful And at our height we were spending about 7,000 a day on ads and uh dude I was paying off the MX every [ __ ] 18 hours or something for God's sakes so whatever

it was it was terrible and it was just just not the one man didn't didn't like the team didn't like the customers didn't like the the niche and when I didn't need the money I was like I'm out yeah you know that that's the thing right I'm out [ __ ] hell I I I only stayed in That company for the money that was like my season of basically that company was the make will rich company basically it was not it didn't have we did have a culture uh and we did have values towards the

end when we were making it more of a proper company but it was just a bootstrapped cash flow monster you know and afterwards when you saw it to a private e firm like what was the reaction within the team when you said okay we're going to sell they were They were well most of them knew okay because they had to know through due diligence cuz through due diligence they were being interviewed and customers being interviewed and everyone knew that we were selling and uh that was my favorite part of the business was the friendship with

the team cuz they were basically all friends and we'd have Team holidays we all knew each other very very well the sales team manager was my childhood best friend so that Helped that really helped man you know like we we only ever had one team member quit and every other person we ever hired never left which is quite I'm I'm which is quite a cool thing to be able to say so we were a good good team but I I just it was too many to manage and it was just a nightmare man everyone in

slack everyone in WhatsApp all the meetings just a mission absolute mission do you think you didn't have a system around how to manage It we did and it was it was solid but it was just overwhelming and I was just always conscious of like I'm responsible for so many people and I just didn't like it I just didn't like having a big team man you know I basically all the things I didn't like there I'm doing the complete opposite now yeah massive team tiny Team all paid ads all organic 32% margin 91% margin you know

not fun very fun not longterm very longterm so i' I've learned a lot I needed that Business to make this one good I couldn't have made this one at all without that one though of course right you learn from the fire you learn from the fire yeah and it's funny because when we just built the next offer that we've done it was so easy to build cuz we had spent two years building a business right so just like this is what it looks like this is how we get customers we just send them messages and

they show up on the calls whereas when You're younger it's like as in it seems like from hearing from you it's like much more out of scarcity because you didn't know like how to run the ads you were figuring it out but then when you cracked it now it's like okay and that's how these this St compounds Generations right yeah dude I mean to be honest all the stars aligned in that last company we had an amazing offer of great timing within the market I learned from some of the best people you know which like

Alex Becka Sam ens Cole Gordon Alan suich and just all the stars aligned that's how we were able to scale so bloody far people can't even people can't believe how far we scaled man even to this day but you never know what's going on behind the scenes for sure you know you think that's the case with a lot of the big guys online now if you looked at like IM man few other guys they're like you know they're huge well huge teams it's huge operations man huge Operations yeah it's huge operations but I mean I

know a lot of people's numbers man so I get to see what's working and what's not and people can never believe some of the numbers man you know usually people are either doing way smaller numbers than you think or way bigger numbers than you think that's always the case you can never guess it correctly man do you know Mar Kelly from space Goods yes I do I love Matt legendy he was here now we we recorded two podcasts One in person that was here and um you know he you know they're doing like about a

million a month now roughly uh really healthy healthy margins and everything and he was saying that you know they're looking at some of the huge huge companies um like Holland and Barrett and all these companies that have like 1% mergin and the reason why they have 1% is because they've obviously like raised so much capital and stuff but it's almost guys that are At zero a month don't realize that like sometimes like those businesses are at that scale whereas what's funny is these some these info product companies are doing such small numbers or tiny mergin

whereas like they very unhealthy businesses which you talk about in the book too right definitely Effectiveness effectiveness of of scaling effectively yeah well dude I I said this to Tom earlier like for me to make 200k net in a month in the last business we had to Make like 800k cash but for me to make 200 now we've got to make 220 cash so the margin the difference in margin it makes things so much easier but it's like this is kind of a lifestyle business in a way you're not going to sell it I do

want to sell it in the future not for a few years we we've got a software now so I want to sell it with the software you're building a software we well it's a go high level white label okay but you can sell go high label White labels interesting by the way but not nonetheless um yeah I do want to try and sell it whether I will or not I don't know but I'm going to bloody try interesting last question for you so the first thing when I saw the book I saw the how to

call on does that mean there's going to be follow-ups yeah I the first thing I thought about man the first thing that came into my head what's your what's your like thinking well the next one will be not How to 10 million but how to 100 million H I don't know how many how long that's going to take but we'll get there and hopefully maybe how to one billion one day you think you want to become a billionaire I do want to become a billionaire I've got a plan to become a billionaire you think You'

do the sacrifices to become a billionaire I don't know you think there is more sacrifices or it's just operating at a better level operating at A better level I think you can do it in ways that are less hard you can do it in ways that are more hard just like making 100K a month do you know Serge CER oh I've heard of him from Montreal originally from Rwanda 24 drives of Porsche awesome dude man I interviewed him last week and they're doing like 600k a month he's 24 25 and uh he does build and

release so they they kind of some similar to yourself it's like 35k 40K up front and they'll come in and Build your sales infrastructure build Ops build your HR infrastructure and release it into the company and then take like a revare on the back end and uh that's basically what what his approach is is like instead of playing this smaller level trying to get like a client he's look he's looking for like the really big plays and he's finding them he's finding a few big plays a month he's adding it in and then they're they're

doing crazy numbers dude that's The way no he has a and what's interesting here is actually funny so he's kind of sounds like similar to you your first business he's trying to go really big so now he's hired like a leadership team very high level very high quality people so he's ranking up his his payroll but he's doing it to be able to get to like two three four million a month um so he be good guy to just have a conversation with awesome dude super cool dude man I had a podcast Remote and he

has like he's like super young this huge penthouse in Montreal and he had all the cameras set up and I was just like it was it was like 9:00 in the morning for him and he was like what's up bad man he's a cool dude he's a cool cool dude man you you've got to play at a different level man you've got to play at a different level but it's for me it's just a case of learning just learning and Just thinking and just putting it all together but I really I truly believe that anything

is possible man you know I truly believe that anyone can achieve anything if you just learn what you've got to learn and the steps and if you can handle it do you think you a software company in you H do you think you a software company in you I mean like real Scrappy startup do you think you'd want to do something like that as in that's what would be your billion Exit you know know I'm getting old man but they're I have so much PTSD from that world like it's like the raising Capital Building Product

Market fit scaling like that aggressive VC approach that's where that's where I came from you know all all my background was was in those compan companies um small scale scale UPS I joined and um brutal like honest God like the worst culture ever like that Silicon Valley startup approach yeah um that's how I started my Career in 19 and like even the first company I joined I was 19 had raised around 5 million we were just all we were trying to do is just not run out of money and reach Amer product Amer fit build

build build build build Engineers working 16 17 hours a day cuz you're trying to get the product out to get it out to try to get cash flow in without liquidating the company further um it just takes a different entrepreneur someone who's uh basically willing to Lose at all for the hope of of winning at all because you're only doing it for the hope of winning it like you know the story with um Loom when Loom sold no Loom sold I think it was Loom or was a figma I think it was Loom I could

be wrong in this the guys had suicide letters beforehand and they eventually sold for like 970 million I'll find an actual company but when but they diluted so much cuz they were trying to stay cash flow positive sorry they weren't Trying to cash they trying to stay alive and they came down to owning like half a percent they sold the business and they ended up with [ __ ] all like and then after attacks ended up with even less um bro it's a brutal game dude I saw Matt Kelly tweet something recently and he said

I can't remember it word for word but he basically said like sometimes I feel stupid for playing this game when I'm watching the core sellers just print one two or 300K a month cash M and be so much more chilled and happy and I was like that's me and and I'm very happy and I was like that's true you know and um part of me thought but it's for the bigger exit isn't it I mean these guys are going for the Big Exit and that will be the day when they're very happy you know but

I think they're unhappy until that day I thought to mad about this I was like you think the eggsit make you happy cuz he Was just here in Bal was working from his laptop whatever and he he works a lot obviously but I was like I said it to him I was like you don't want the money though you actually like the game and then he he he he I recognized it and he was like yeah like I love to build he's like an artist he's a designer and I was like trust me you'll sell

this company and you'll be on [ __ ] Photoshop the next day making a new logo because that's his design he's he's a Visual guy they've never had a designer he's on all the artwork himself I was like dude that's where your brain is so so for you lean into it don't over don't kill yourself in the process but lean into that versus like I I'm what I said to him was I I said do you think you're a failure until you sell and he said yes I think I'm a failure until I'm a success

and I was like it's a broken model I was like I was like that means you're always going to live in a Scarcity because his other like friends have done like and like this is just paraphrasing but the idea was just that until you get to that point you're failure at a subconscious level and I was like dude we're all [ __ ] if we think like that yeah he is a brand guy that guy I think he's born to to run proper good brands yeah he's not a cash flow course coaching guy in my

opinion he's he's an artist he's a designer he thinks long term he wants these big Exits he's a builder yeah you know because I I I think of um my number one favorite thing in the world is just to build things build logos build music build graffiti magazines build coaching businesses build whatever um and he's a natural Builder we're all natural Builders are we because if we weren't we would get the enough money and leave and stop 100% and coming from that salary world man I can tell you that's not where we belong you know

thank God now I'll leave you at that that was a heavy two hours want to say thank you sir I appreciate everything you always do and uh yeah man just going to continue watching you smash it thanks so much for having me on man that flew by very very very fun