[Music] this hearing will come to order and before we begin our formal business let me first extend a Welcome to our new finance committee members uh we have Senator Marshall on the Republican side welcome Senator and on the Democrat side we have Senators Luhan Sanders Smith warock and Welch we welcome you all to the committee as well you all bring great Expertise to the committee and we look forward to working with you I'm also honored to lead this committee alongside ranking member ween Senator weiden and I have a proven track record of working together to
improve the lives of our constituents in the Pacific Northwest and on this committee and we can and will do so again in this Congress I look forward to working with you Senator rden this committee's Jurisdiction tax trade and Health Care policy reflects some of the most challenging matters that Congress confronts the finance committee will continue its long tradition of addressing these matters in a manner that invites bipartisanship and delivers results to create opportunities for Americans turning to today's hearing let me extend a warm welcome to Mr Scott Besson president Trump's nominee for the Secretary of
the Treasury as well as his family congratulations Mr bessent on your well-deserved nomination and thank you for your willingness to serve and for your extensive cooperation with this committee it has already been a great pleasure to work with you you've been transparent candid and insightful with me and with my colleagues you've spent countless hours meaningfully answering our questions and according yourself with great courtesy Dignity and professionalism throughout the committee's rigorous vetting process and I think that our finance committee has the most rigorous process of any Committee in the Congress you have worked tirelessly to meet
our longstanding diligence standard it's clear that you followed applicable law and provided thousands of pages of documentation that substantiate your positions positions supported by Major law and accounting firms thank you for your transparency and responsiveness throughout the finance committee's exacting process and I look forward to continuing to work together with you Mr bessent has worked for the last three decades as one of the sharpest Minds in the global Finance industry including as an entrepreneur who started his own own asset management firm he taught economic history at Yale University is a member of the Council on
Foreign Relations has served on the board of universities and nonprofits and engages in a variety of philanthropic Endeavors Mr bessent based upon your background experience and character president Trump made an excellent choice in nominating you to be a Secretary of Treasury as you have described it the position for which you are nominated is at the heart of the American economy which is in turn at the heart of Global economic growth a treasury secretary heads the agency charged with supporting economic growth representing us interests before foreign Nations and Global Financial markets and organizations managing the federal
Treasury and overseeing financial institutions to name just a few of the responsibilities past successful SE treasury secretaries have understood business and financial markets as well as foreign policy and National Security budgets and regulation they have worked collaboratively with Congress to enact the president's priorities additionally they have been forthright and communicative the next treasury secretary will have to work with Congress to preserve and build on the progrowth Republican tax policies that have great greatly benefited all Americans as well as improve our Global Competitiveness through trade deals that create Market access and combat China's unfair practices as
seen in the results of our most recent election American voters resoundingly support returning to the robust economy that we enjoyed during President Trump's first term if you're confirmed I look forward to working closely with you to achieve these and other essential aims Mr bessent on behalf of my colleagues I Thank you for your willingness to serve and again congratulate you on your support and on your nomination which I intend to support with that I recognize ranking member ween for his opening remarks thank you very much U Mr chairman and I appreciate your introducing all the
new members on both sides and uh as always your very kind comments about me very very much appreciated in a trump economy the Winner circle is small and it's dominated by the ultra wealthy working people in the middle class are on the outside looking in and Trump and his advisers are indifferent to the problems they face each day I've had more than 1100 open to all Town Hall meetings in my state I'll have several more this weekend but second word I hear from oregonians in those meetings is almost always Bill grocery bill medical bill Electricity
bill Americans feel held held down by the cost of living they look at the growing fortunes at the top and they weigh that against their sense that America's middle class just doesn't have the opportunities to really get ahead the American people voted for Change and more than anywhere else they want change in the economy I don't believe they're going to get it from Mr bessent or Donald Trump The center piece of the Trump economic agenda is extending his 2017 tax law at a cost of more than $4 trillion ultra wealthy individuals who rake in millions
each year would get tax break of hundreds of thousands of dollars families who live paycheck to paycheck would be lucky if they could just get enough to cover the grocery bill for a week how does Donald Trump and Republicans plan to pay for their multi- Trillion dollar giveaways to the ultra wealthy for starters they'll be offering acrossthe board tariffs and let's be clear about what that's all about trillions of dollars in new taxes paid for by working Americans and small businesses and to me the ultimate distillation of the Trump agenda is paying for tax breaks
for the top by increasing child hunger booting tens of Millions off their health insurance and laying off hundreds of thousands of manufacturing workers it feels to like a class war on typical American families and the nominee if confirmed is going to be right in the middle of it Donald Trump's going to be waging this class war instead of fixing what's broken about the tax code which is there's a special set of rules that apply only to the ultra Wealthy make no mistake about it those ultra wealthy people get to pay what they want when they
want to and often little or nothing for years on end Mr bessent is a case in point the taxes that fund Medicare are automatic for the vast majority of Americans they come straight out of every paycheck it's a civic duty that pays off as earned benefits down the road but like a number of Wall Street fund managers Mr bessent makes use of a tricky legal maneuver to Op out of paying into Medicare it's a tax loophole that hurts Medicare but benefits him to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars each year now the treasury
Department has gone to court to argue that taxpayers taking this position are violating tax law make no mistake about that that's not me making the Judgment that's the treasury Department they went to court to argue that taxpayers who take this position are violating the law I believe It's a big conflict of interest if the nominee is confirmed either he and his lawyers take the position the treasury policy doesn't apply to the treasury secretary or He blesses a loophole that lets Wall Street Titans blow off their fair share of Medicare taxes this is exactly the kind
of abusive scheme that lead leaves Americans feeling disgusted with the tax code they feel it every spring when they go to file their taxes through the big Software companies as well it's absurd that Americans get charged huge amounts of money to file their taxes every year that's why a number of us in this room worked hard to create the new direct file program with resources from the inflation reduction Act and the Biden Administration it's a free option that allows taxpayers to file their returns directly to the IRS no software middlemen picking their pockets or harvesting
their data it launched last Year to rave reviews and virtually nowhere in the western industrialized world do we have the kind of bureaucratic costly system we have today and we're trying to change it 35 million Americans across 25 States excuse me 30 million Americans across 25 states are going to be eligible to use direct file this year that's if it continues to survive the software Giants want direct file killed Republicans are on their side so maybe they're going to get their Way if they do it'll cost American taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars this year
alone Trump and Republicans aren't stopping there when it comes to siding with special interests over the typical consumer the inflation reduction Act was the largest investment in clean energy in our history it was largely developed in this room and it took years to try to find the common ground around technological neutrality and the more You reduce carbon the bigger your tax savings it's created hundreds of thousands of jobs it's saving consumers money on their energy bills and along with record fossil fuel production it's brought energy secur to a level not seen in Generations our country
is in a clean energy arms raii with China and other powers but unfortunately these policies from Donald Trump and Republicans May prevent us from winning that arms race with China that's because the Trump Administration is talking about selling out the special interests in far-right idogs that want to Nuke the provisions of the IRA that help us promote clean energy they want to keep in place the oil and gas subsidies that have been around for more than a generation but eliminate the incentives that put us in the lead on clean energy from what I've read that's
how the nominee sees it as well that would be a recipe for higher energy costs weaker Energy security and surrender to China when it comes to clean energy jobs and investment in my view that just defies Common Sense I'll close with this many people myself included hoped that the president-elect would pick a steady hand for treasury secretary someone who would be a moderating force who'd work with all sides and especially for the interests of all Americans for a tax code that gives everybody in America the Chance to get ahead not just the people at the
top so this is an important discussion today and I wish I had read something that would indicate that this nominee would be the kind of treasure treasury secretary I described that's why we have the hearing to get his views thank you Senator kpo thank you very much Senator whiten and today we are honored to have our good friend and colleague and now the new budget committee chairman Senator Lindsay Graham to help introduce the nominee welcome Senator Graham from the state of the great state of South Carolina I want to thank you for joining us today
and I'll turn it over to you to introduce Mr bessent well thank you Mr chairman and ranking member to all my colleagues and there are only hundred of us we know each other pretty well uh this is my first appearance in the finance committee probably last uh y'all work on complicated stuff and uh I'm Glad you like this stuff seems kind of boring to me but it's important what you do and I respect the intellect of the people on this committee because our economy needs the best Minds uh that we can find on the finance
committee and we need a Secretary of Treasury that knows what he's doing has the trust of the president and loves his country your ship came in with this guy so Scott sets from South Carolina uh he's academically gifted and Real world tested uh he went to Yale so nobody's perfect when he told me that I said I don't know about that but anyway he's really really smart and this is a complicated area now why am I here because Trump won I wouldn't be here if Trump hadn't won Trump won because more people voted for him
and he had to pick people to form his cabinet and when he talked about the Secretary of Treasury I'm not the normal person you Would go to ask about because this is not so much my portfolio but when mentioned Scott I said oh my God home run from my point of view I mean you talk about somebody who's academically gifted understands the world Scott like any Republican president would pick Scott I mean he's really understands the president and what the president wants to do and reason I vote for almost everybody for Every president is I
believe um colleagues that every president deserves a cabinet that they know and trust and can rely upon if I had to vote for People based on agreeing with them I wouldn't vote for anybody y'all picked that's not the standard for me I vote for people who I disagree with because I think they're qualified so I would just ask the committee to think for is this man Qualified does he have the background and the intelligence and the character to serve president Trump and our nation Secretary of Treasury I think by any reasonable test of qualifications he
he excels beyond the bare minimum to to the highest level of Excellence but that's just my opinion so my goal here today is tell you a little bit about him um you've heard from the chairman about his success in the financial world uh about his academic Qualifications he was born in L River South Carolina why do they call it l River because it's little and it's a river it's in aie County you how many of you heard of Myrtle Beach most of you well this is somewhere between Conway and Myrtle Beach at 9 years old
his first job was to set up beach chairs and umbrellas in North Marlo Beach And apparently you did well there because North Myrtle Beach is thriving he went to North Myrtle Beach High School and he was voted most likely to succeed in 1980 and we have a high school um classmate of his what did they see in him the same thing I see someone who really is talented and works hard and just a good person the type people that you think are going to succeed but you hope Succeed so he lives in Charleston in a
really nice place going from Little River to Charleston is about a 2 and a half hour drive but it's a real change since I represent Carolina I like them both very much he's married John his husband's right behind me and they have two kids Carolina and Cole and they're absolutely adorable and from a South Carolina point Of view we're really proud of Scott I was over the top happy when President Trump picked him because I know him I know where he came from the rich and Powerful don't live in Little River this is truly the
American dream this man has been successful at everything he's ever tried to do he's wor really hard and why did President Trump pick him because he believes that President Trump's economic agenda is good for this country and he wants to Help president Trump be successful and here's what Scott said I think it's the melding of economic policy with National Security economic policy and National Security are now indispensable and Donald Trump understands that so I'm here to tell you folks I agree with that if we don't have energy Independence we're less safe if we don't get
our debt in order we're less safe I am known around here as kind of a national security guy but I Do understand Economic Policy matters uh if you want to clean up the environment a carbon fee seems to be a good way to do it to punish China and India for bad carbon practices call it a tariff call it whatever you want to do so president Trump won I'm here today because he won I'm here today because Scott lives in South Carolina I'm here today to tell you if you use qualifications as your test this
is the easiest vote you'll ever Take if your goal is to play like the election didn't happen then I guess you'll vote no that's just where we're headed in the Senate when you lose an election you get up and dust yourself off and you get ready for the next one but I was honored when he asked me to introduce him because I know this man and America will be in good hands if he our Secretary of Treasury he deserves this job he's qualified for This job and president Trump thank you for picking him in behalf
of all of us in South Carolina we're extremely proud of you and we wish you well thank you thank you Senator Graham we appreciate you giving this introduction and you are now excused as is our practice and Mr bessent before we turn it over to you for your opening statement I have four questions that we ask all nominees who come before this Committee the first is is there anything that you are aware of in your background that might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to which you have been nominated no
sir second do you know of any reason personal or otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you've been nominated no sir third do you agree without reservation to respond to any reasonable Summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted Committee of the Congress if you are confirmed yes sir and finally do you commit to provide a prompt response in writing to any question addressed to you by any Senator on this committee yes sir thank you very much again welcome to the committee
Mr bessent and you may make your opening statement good thank you chairman crpo ranking member widen members of the finance committee it's an honor and a Privilege to be considered by this committee as the president's nominee for the Secretary of the Treasury I want to thank all of you who took the time to meet with me over the past few weeks I want to thank my spouse John Freeman who was here today and my wonderful children Cole and Caroline Mike I'm not sure is Mike's who were sitting behind me Mr bant could you pull the
microphone a little closer to you who were sitting behind me for the Ultimate civics lesson I want to acknowledge three people who couldn't be here today my 98-year-old mother-in-law Seline Freeman a World War I French War bride of an American soldier who lives with us in Charleston South Carolina making for a three generation household my sister Paige McLoud bessent who doesn't like crowds and prefers the mountains of South Carolina to large cities and my recently deceased sister wi bessent who Worked tirelessly as a public defender in one of South Carolina's poorest counties I also want
to thank president Donald Trump for having placed his trust and confidence in me for such an important role in his administration while I've met with many of you most Americans watching at home will be unfamiliar with my background I have been blessed with a fulfilling and successful career but my presence here today was far from Predetermined I was born and raised in the South Carolina Low Country my father fell into extreme financial difficulty when I was young when I was 9 years old I started working two summer jobs and I haven't stopped working working sense
I eventually made my way to Yale I accepted my first internship in finance because the job came with a pullout sofa in the office to sleep on which allowed me to live in New York City rentree I've been involved in the Financial markets ever since I've been fortunate enough to work with some of the world's greatest investors in a career that has taken me to almost 60 countries over 40 years my life has been the only in America story that I am determined to preserve for future Generations today I believe that President Trump has a
generational opportunity to unleash a new economic golden age that will create more jobs wealth and prosperity for all Americans My life's work in the private sector has given me a deep understanding of the economy and markets and while this experience will be invaluable in crafting Economic Policy I have long adhered to the principle that you should know what you don't know and lean on those who do having never served in government I intend if confirmed to be in close contact with each of you in your offices and seek your counsel the treasury Department plays a
critical Role in protecting American National Security we must secure Supply chains that are vulnerable to strategic iic competitors and we must carefully deploy sanctions as part of a whole of government approach to address our national security requirements and critically critically we must ensure that the US dollar Remains the world's Reserve currency today Americans face significant challenges in an economy That has not created enough opportunities for working men and women we have an affordability crisis a housing shortage Ag and for the first time in my lifetime parents feel as though the American dream is slipping away
from their children the federal government has a significant spending problem driving deficits that have averaged an historically High 7% of GDP during the past four years we must work to get our fiscal house in order and Adjust Federal domestic discretionary spending that has grown by an astonishing 40% over the past 4 years productive investment that grows the economy must be prioritized over wasteful spending that drives inflation as we begin 2025 Americans are barreling towards an economic crisis at year end if Congress fails to act Americans will face the largest tax increase in history a crushing
4 trillion tax hike we must make permanent the 2017 tax 2017 tax Cuts and jobs act and Implement new progrowth policies to reduce the tax burden on American manufacturers service workers and seniors I've already spoken with several members of the committee as well as leaders of the house about the best approach to achieving these important goals together as president Trump has said we will unleash the American economy by implementing progrowth regulatory policies reducing taxes and unleashing American energy Production ction the breadth and depth of our Capital markets along with predictable progrowth tax policy and smart
updated regulation will continue to make America the most popular destination in the world for starting growing and taking public a business and as we rebuild our economy and lay the foundation for the next generation of American competitiveness we must use all the tools available to realign the economic system to better serve the Interest of working Americans for too long our nation has allowed unfair distortions in the international trading system president Trump was the first president in modern times to recognize the need to change our trade policy and stand up for American workers if confirmed I
look forward to working with President Trump and members of this committee to do just that members of the committee these are just some of many important goals that President Trump has Laid out for me and others on his economic team I firmly believe that if confirmed and with your Council and support we can Usher in a new more balanced era of prosperity that will lift up all Americans and rebuild communities and families across the country I humbly thank you for your consideration and I'm eager to take your questions thank you Mr Besson before I begin
my questions I want to reemphasize how appreciative I am of your diligence In the process that we've gone through vetting here in this Senate I appreciate the more than 3,000 pages of supporting material you've provided as well as the countless hours you and your staff have offered to respond to questions for members of this committee let me be clear you followed all of the applicable law and met the committee's longstanding diligence standard your process matched that which has applied to nominees in Every previous administration and I want to go in my first question to you
to the tax cuts and jobs act which uh Senator weiden and I have both mentioned already and you've mentioned in your remarks the attack on this statute this this law which is law I remind everybody it is the law now it was passed in 2017 is that it was a tax cut for the wealthy I appreciate you Mr noting that it will be A4 plus trillion Tax increase if we do not extend this law and a point that I would remind all of my colleagues is that if that four plus trillion doll tax increase happens
it's not just going to be something that impacts the wealthy it is 2.6 trillion of it the majority of it falls on people who make less $400,000 for a a a mar a family with two taxpayers for under $400,000 per year that's the number that President Biden chose to say he wanted to protect it 2.6 trillion of this tax cut hits those making less than $400,000 moreover massive amounts of it hit pass through entities small businesses across this country this is not a tax cut for the wealthy that we are talking about it is a
tax increase on all Americans the majority of whom are in the lower and middle income categories my question to you is one of our PIV pivotal tax is to make sure that This tax increase does not happen can you give us your perspective on the impact that would occur in this country if we allowed this 4 trillion doll tax increase to happen senator Senator kpo uh thank you for this and thank you the for the meetings over the past few weeks I've enjoyed working with your staff and this is the single most important economic issue
of the day this is p fail that if we do Not the fix these tax cuts if we do not renew and extend then we will be facing an economic calamity and as always with financial instability that falls on the middle and Working Class People we will see a gigantic middle class tax increase we will see the child tax credit halfed we will see the deductions half so it will be what we call an economics it has the potential for a sudden stop and as I Said traditionally with these sudden stops it falls on working
Americans thank you and U I would just say to you you may be aware of this but the tax Foundation has indicated that if we uh do sustain these tax cuts and protect them from expiring and stop this tax increase that the extension of this policy would increase the growth of the GDP in the United States by 1.1% over time similarly and I don't know how they Came up with the same number but the National Association of Manufacturers indicates that if we don't extend this tax relief that there will be a 1.1% reduction in U
growth of of jobs and development in our economy um it seems to me that as we are talking about what to do for for America that protecting America from a 1% reduction versus a 1% growth in GDP is a critical objective uh could you just give a little bit of perspective I know you've Just answered this question in another context but could you just give a little bit more uh perspective on those kinds of Dynamics and I'm sorry I'm going to try to keep to five minutes and we've only got about 15 seconds left of
mine and I want to be sure everybody else stays on time so I will too you quickly respond well Senator I I would just say that we saw the power of these tax cuts in 1819 and going into to uh January of 20 before they were interrupted by covid And the great success that we had thank you Senator ween thank you very much uh Mr chairman let me say to the nominee I've got four questions that I'm going to ask and if we both can keep it brief I think we can get to all of
them because I think it really frames for us what the debate is all about I'm going to start by talking about the future of direct file this is the program that helps our people who choose it to save hundreds of dollars when they file their Tax return last year the IRS launched it it was enormously popular uh among taxpayers but of course the tax software Giants in their big Lobby just hate it they want to shut it down now the filing season starts January 27th so it opens in 10 days and millions of taxpayers around
the country have already been notified that they are going to be eligible to use direct file this year so I won't do this for every question but I'd really like a yes or no on this one Will you commit to keeping direct file up and run up and running if you're confirmed I will commit that for this tax season the direct file will be operative and the American taxpayers who choose to use it will and if confirmed I will consult and study the program and understand it better and make sure that it works to serve
the irs's three goals the of collections customer service and privacy I appreciate the answer it means that Taxpayers are going to save who choose to use it because it's voluntary hundreds of dollars and we'll have a chance to see once again how popular it is with practically everybody except the tax prep software crowd on to tariffs Donald Trump with no plan and no strategy says he's going to put across thee board tariffs blanket tariffs on all imported goods which means means that our workers and our small businesses are going to get clobbered With additional taxes
on practically everything they buy from other countries my question here is who would pay these tariffs Americans or foreign countries so this Senator weiden I just to understand uh so I can frame the answer correctly uh do do you believe that these ts are a consumption tax increase I believe these tariffs you can call it whatever you want in trying in terms of trying to Gussy it up they're going to be paid for by our workers and Small businesses all through the campaign we heard they weren't that foreign countries were going to pay it I
think that's baloney it's going to be paid for by workers and small businesses so your response uh yes Senator I I would respectfully disagree and the uh history of tariffs and tariff Theory optimal tariff Theory does not support what you're saying traditionally we see that the current if we were to say use a number that has been thrown around in The Press of 10% then traditionally the currency appreciates by 4% so the 10% has not passed through then we have various elasticities consumer preferences may change and finally foreign manufacturers especially China especially China which is
trying to export their way out of their current economic malays they will continue cutting prices to maintain market share okay that's an academic view of it but What I know is the history of this is it clobbers people of modest means they're the people who are going to get hit and all through the campaign there was a big show that it was going to be paid for by foreigners not so two other uh questions that I want to get in and I already made it clear and you and I talked about this I'm for a
tax code that gives everybody the opportunity to get ahead you and I talked about my friend Bill Bradley he and I have been working for this for Years do you believe the tax code should treat wages differently than it treats wealth that look in any tax system that advantages and creates distortions it it it is a change that Senator it it is a decision that was made when the tax codes were written and so every tax codes in uh involves the trade-offs and distortions in in favor of other um the games it sounds to me
like you do believe that it's fine to treat uh uh wealth uh more favorably I couldn't Disagree more the idea that a dollar earned by a hedge fund manager has more value than a dollar earned by a teacher or a factory worker I just think is a disconnect with the American people one last question and that is about the legislation that was written in this room that was the biggest transformation on clean energy in American history that is our package that basically said the tax code as it relates to energy is a broken down mess
and we basically said We're going to have a technology neutral system the more you reduce carbon the bigger your tax savings now there is a big effort in the Trump Administration to reverse it I think that's going to be bad for the economy but it is going to be damn good for China because we are in an arms race on clean energy with them are you going to be on the side of people who want to unravel this uh senator the senator widen uh just so we can frame this for everyone in the room China
will build a hundred new coal plants this year there is not a clean energy race there is an energy race China will build 10 nuclear plants this year that is not solar I I am in favor the of more nuclear plants and I would note that the IRA as scored by the C CBO is wildly out of control in terms of spending on the upside well F first of all the clean energy package does protect nuclear because members on both sides of the Aisle in this room wanted it to be that way but if you're
going to talk about fossils the United States has achieved a greater level of energy security than we've had in Generations oil and gas production is at record highs and it's not just that but it's about clean energy and I'm very troubled by your position denying that we're in an arms with China on clean energy because we definitely are thank you Mr chman we do need to move on and I I told Senator White he could have those four questions but I want to remind everybody else we've got a five minute time limit he deserved those
extra questions Senator Grassley Mr congratulations I want to start out with where you and I talked about something in my office and you remember that tongue and cheek comment I made to you that you're going to be asked by the chairman we answer all of our letters And everybody that comes to the hill says yes they're going to and I said maybe you better say maybe because most people don't uh keep that promise so I just want to remind you if I write you a letter on my oversight responsibilities I'd appreciate it if you'd answer
now to my first question my Democrat colleagues believe uh you going to put that up my Democrat colleagues believe the only solution to our unsustainable debt and deficit is higher tax rates and and that Ends up being on job creators and families alike however history proves that high tax rates fail to raise significant revenues taxpayers workers and investors are smarter than that uh in in other words they smarter than we in Congress that thinks that at one time a 93% marginal tax rate would bring in more Revenue than a 70% tax rate or a 50%
tax rate or a 30% tax rate or a 40% tax rate and so on but as you can see from this cart uh Congress Isn't too smart because the taxpayers decide how much money they're going to bring into the federal treasury now on the other side The Ledger uh federal spending is at levels we've never seen outside of war and recation and still growing so I'm making a statement to you but if you'd like to comment on whether or not we have a fiscal imbalance primarily or or a uh or a spending problem rather than
a revenue problem Senator I enjoy Senator Grassley I enjoyed visiting you in your office and we'll remind you that the when we were talking about the American agriculture that I made the first treasury secretary nominee in a long time who knows what a section is 642 Acres yeah and and involved in the farming business and yes we do not have a revenue problem in the United States of America we have a spending problem that historically for the past 40 or 50 years revenues federal government Revenues have averaged about 17 to 175% of GDP yeah and
spending has been slightly over that leading us to a 35% budget deficit which is manageable because we have roughly 3.8% nominal growth 1.8% real growth 2% inflation today as you stated and to be clear this is one of the things that got me out from behind my desk and my quiet life in this campaign was the thought that this spending is out of control we are spending about 24 25% of GDP so as You said 6.8 to 7% deficit we have never seen this before when it is not a recession or not a war and
I am concerned because several times the treasury of the United States has been called upon to save the nation whether it was the Civil War the Great Depression World War II or the recent covid epidemic treasury along with full government and Congress has used its borrowing capacity to save the union to Save the world and to save the American people and what we currently have now we would be hard pressed to do same uh my last question is one I ask a lot of people to come from treasury uh while I oppose Tas hikes on
individuals families and small businesses I've long Champion sensor policies geared towards shutting down tax loopholes and providing tools to IRS to detect Tech cheats a primary example is my uh legislation that I authored in 2006 the IRS whistleblower law it's brought $6 billion back into the federal Treasury this program could raise billions more if IRS would use it to its full potential so I hope I could count on you if you're confirmed and I think you'll be confirmed to be supportive of this whistleblower program and work to ensure its full use uh to its full
potential uh Senator Grassley the uh we are in complete alignment the on this program thank you next would be senator Corin well thank you Mr chairman Mr Benson welcome to Washington DC you're getting a taste of what it's like here um which is a out-of- body experience for most people who are not acquainted with it I happen to represent a state that has the eighth largest economy in the world we think we understand the formula for economic growth and prosperity and opportunity with your low taxes reasonable and modest regulatory footprint and opportunities for people To
um prosper and by prospering invest and create opportunities for other people to pursue their dreams we think there's a lot Washington can learn from that formula and it sounds to me like you agree um one of the strange experiences I've had here is that so many of our colleagues principally on the other side think that the money that you earn is not actually yours it's the federal government's and you just get to keep a little bit of it uh conversely I Believe that the money that people earn is theirs and they have a responsibility to
pay taxes but as you point out an over tax burden or large tax burden has a way of depressing the economy and reducing standard of living so um I'm grateful for your nomination and I think you are exact ly the type of individual um to that needs to serve in this important position and I support your nomination wholeheartedly let me ask you in the Short time I have a cou one sort of uh obscure question and another one that we discussed in our office as you know the market for us treasuries is the largest market
in the world at 28 trillion and it's critical to the financial stability of the United States there is actually a proposal for an entity to clear US Treasury Futures at the London Clearing House which is overseen by the bank of England some argue that the bank of England would have control over a um Heaven forbid a default scenario in a in this critical Market instead of the US is this a concern to you Senator cor Corin I enjoyed visiting in your office and uh I I would note that while Texas has more arrivals due to
good economic policies South Carolina has more arrivals as a percent of the population also driven by our wonderful Governor Henry McMaster I'm still going to vote for your nomination we I think it's, 1600 people A day in Texas but go ahead yeah I um everything's bigger in Texas sir um that you you raised a very important question and one that I will investigate the further U I was unaware until the past few days of this with the new exchange what I can tell you is as a student a professor of economic history that is important
for the US for us treasuries for us to be able to uh resolve the any stress issues in the Market in the US we saw during The Leman Brothers bankruptcy that much of many of the problems emanated through from the UK subsidiary so this is something that thank you for bringing this to my attention and I am my inclination is that the resolution Authority must lie here in the US but I will get back to you in writing with an answer on this if confirmed thank you you approp L mentioned China as one of our
biggest challenges um and uh while I believe in Free and fair trade we know that uh some countries principally the PRC and Chinese Communist party don't play by the rules over the years uh by some estimates uh us investments in Chinese companies have totaled $2.3 trillion in market value that was at the end of 2020 that included $21 billion these are American companies investing in China 21 billion in semiconductors 54 billion in military companies and 221 billion in artificial intelligence so it's pretty Clear to me that us Investments have fueled China's economic growth which has
allowed them not only an increased standard of living which is great for the Chinese people but problematically it's also allowed them to modernize their military and now threaten the peace in the indopacific ific and Beyond um we as we discussed I've introduced a bill that would require transparency uh of American companies investing in in China and of course the The the entity that would receive the reports from American companies that do that and since is strictly a reporting requirement would be treasury um what's your view of an outbound investment transparency requirement Senator Corin I I
I believe that as we discussed in your office this is a very important issue that the we we can the chi Chinese economy is the most imbalanced unbalanced economy in the history of the world they are using Their surpluses to fund their military machine in China and I'm not I'm not going to try the Mandarin pronunciation for the sake of everyone in the room uh but there is a phrase that is two words military industrial and Military always comes first so uh we should understand that and that we should have a very rigorous screening process
for as you identified anything that could be used the in AI in Quantum Computing in Surveillance in chips that the US has the lead and we must make sure that we maintain it the through smart policies such as you and I discussed thank we need to move on Senator Bennett Mr Besson thank you for being here Mr chairman congratulations on your position we look forward to working with you as I always have um Mr Besson thank you for your willingness to serve we are um at the beginning of what's going to be a a vigorous
conversation about the Country's fiscal Health you've described our deficit as alarming and yet you are here with the same Trump tax policy that has burdened the American people with another $2 trillion dollar of debt that their kids and grandkids are going to have to pay back and despite the the conversation we've heard over here clearly you know the distribution of it was deeply deeply deeply unfair 50% of it went to the top 5% of Americans 75% of it if you add the salt which even the Wall Street Journal won't support because it's so unbelievably outrageous
uh will go to the wealthiest 5% of Americans the tax policy is one that's hard un it is for some reason in this room it makes sense to people in America I don't think there's been a mayor in the history of the United States whose tax policy has been to go to the people of New York City or of Atlantic City or even of even of mar Lago and said to them I have an idea I'm going to borrow More money than we have ever borrowed in history of that community and and I'm going to
spend it and I would say well gez I'm worried about that I don't want us to borrow a bunch of money without knowing what it's going for what is it going for is it going for schools no is it going to compete with the Chinese uh in their defense no is it going to pay for Parks no is it going to deal with the Mental Health crisis that we have in America no is it going to pay to secure Our border no what are you doing with the money Mr Besson what were you doing with
the money m Mr minuchin what are you doing with the money mayor in America the answer is we are going to give it to the richest people in America the richest people in our community and expect that somehow that's going to trickle down to everybody else that has been the Trump tax policy since the day he showed up and no May in America would ever with a straight face say that's What they should do and in fact no America in history has done that but to add insult to injury you sit here and Mr minuchin
sat here at his time and said it's all going to be paid for by economic growth we know that's not true we know it cost $2 trillion so while the benefit went to the richest people in America the cost is being born by the children of working people all over this country and that's what's going to happen now it's 4.6 Trillion this time not $2 trillion and then you come here and this is my question Mr Besson and you sneak into your opening statement that we have a spending problem and what we have to focus
on as you said is discretionary spending after your crocodile tears about uh the the the defend the how China is out competing us and as you know because you're a smart person and you spent a lot of time on Wall Street just like your predecessor did um Discretionary spending is about a third of our overall spending 177% of what we spend is domestic 177% roughly of what we spend is military spending that spending you were talking about with respect to China I there's so many things I think you owe the American people after we have
seen the catastrophe of the result from the tax cuts the last time and the and and the fact that the benefits went to the wealthiest people but don't you at least Owe the American people a refund for the 2 trillion that they've already incurred because of the last round before you get to the 4.6 trillion can't we think of a better idea in this the Halls here than cutting taxes for the wealthiest people and expecting that it will trickle down to everybody else when we have the profound needs that you have talked about when we're
living in economy you had the American dream we heard you say that where fewer and fewer people can Get ahead where this generation of Americans is going to be the first generation to leave less opportunity not more to our kids and our grandkids where we see massive income inequality and wealth inequality when Trump was president when Biden was President can't we think of a better idea than that and at a bare minimum and this is Tiny don't we owe them an answer about what you are going to do to that 177% of discretionary spending or
even the third Before you come in here and say that the most important thing we should do is cut taxes for the richest people in America Senator thank you and I would respectfully disagree with much of your categorization in terms of the benefits are crewing to the richest Americans actually the share of taxes paid by the upper percent of Americans increased after tcja it went from 39 to 46% the top 50% of Americans now pay 98% Of taxes and Working Families had real wage increases the in 2018 and 2019 and going in 2020 preco the
CBO scoring for the Trump tax cuts got rescored by 1.5 trillion make sure that make sure cuz we in the beginning of long debate that if you're going to rely on the CBO score for this that you're going to be willing to rely it on it for the things that you've said it's no good uh look I'm not in love with CBO scoring I know that that's why now you're relying on it so I'm just saying let's not let's not it's not funny money this is American people's money we can do math every mayor in
America has to do math and we're going to insist that you do the math too because we know George Soros understands the math when you work there and you understand full well what's going on here just like Steve minuchin did just like Donald Trump does and we're not going to let it happen again to the American people thank you Mr Chairman thank you and I again remind my colleagues we need to hold our time to five minutes Senator Cassidy um Mr bassant I'm always going to pronounce your name as if it was in south Louisiana
and I'm GNA pronounce it with a French bon as opposed to bessent that's what those folks in South Carolina do um I'll try let me compliment you on substantiative answers sometimes we get people here who just Rope A Dope and They'll have a set of statements such as have been just delivered in all due respect to my colleague uh they just Rope A Dope and you actually give substantiative answers I thank you for that by the way I also Lindsey Graham alluded to it going back to tariffs which Senator weiden spoke of I've been very
concerned that countries like China manipulate environmental regulations you point out that they're putting they're building 100 Coal Fired plants over a Period time and that whatever we do will not have an impact on global greenhouse gas emissions because China's putting up so many I believe I've learned that that is called an externality in E economics when we met we discussed uh the farm pollution fee which would put a levy a tariff on those carbon intensive products coming from countries like China roughly commensurate with their avoided cost of not controlling it now I would think that
That my Democratic colleagues would like that because that's clearly a way that they are manipulating the world economy to steal jobs from the United States and simultaneously increase Global greenhouse gas emissions uh any comments on such a farm pollution fee Senator Cassidy I I enjoy greatly enjoyed our discussion and the extensive presentation you gave me when I visited with you and this this is a very good question because and I believe it is one For your Democratic colleagues to understand whether they would be in favor of the equivalent of a carbon tariff that Senator Graham
is in favor of it and I think this is a very interesting the idea that it could be part of a entire tariff program because you know I I think president Trump hasn't taken office yet um but if confirmed I look forward to working with them on various strategies Some that could be specifically aimed toward carbon as you say others that could be aimed toward unfair Trade Practices unfair financing practices so if you will there's externalities that a tariff can address those externalities in of themselves hurt the pocketbook or the job prospects of an average
American let let me move on I I I think you would agree with that that um I applaud your goal to get our debt to G GDP ratio down to 3% or or or percent of our GDP down To 3% um but but but you studiously say that that we can't talk about things like Social Security and I think that's because routinely if we talk about social security we presume that there's going to be a cut in benefits or a raise in taxes uh I think we spoke when we met um um I and others
have a bipartisan plan that would create a pension investment fund separate from the Social Security trust fund and that um just like we do With our 401ks invested in the broader economy and use the proceeds from that to offset the upcoming 25% cut in Social Security benefits that will occur if we don't address this problem and just so folks get that under current law when the Social Security program goes in solve it in 8 years per CBO there'll be a 25% cut in benefits under the plan I and others have endorsed it's a pension investment
Fund in which we again would invest in the broader economy with all The safeguards to keep the government from interfering I mentioned that because it seems that other advisers to the president incoming president have spoken of creating an investment fund to benefit Mr lutnick I think has Mr Paulson did on the campaign Trail um what are your thoughts about that concept I think they spoke about it as a sovereign wealth I'm speaking about it as a as a fund to bailout social uh not by the way all risk borne by the fund None of the
risk borne by the beneficiary she would get her scheduled benefits what are your thoughts on that so Senator Cassidy first of all I want to emphasize that President Trump has said that Social Security and Medicare they will not be touched and I believe but I'm saying touch in a positive way not cut benefits not raise taxes indeed increase benefits and take that 25% cut off the table just to make that clear no I I understand and um so those those Would not be touched one of the tragedies of this blowout in the budget deficit is
that we have to get our short-term house in order to start before we can start implementing the smart plans such as yours I I do believe that there is discussion to um leverage the ass set side of the US balance sheet as we discussed in your office you know in in favor of a fund whether it's a sovereign wealth fund uh something as you Discussed a supplemental fund so that is very much um in the mix uh I look forward to getting back to you on it uh president Trump hasn't take taken office yet uh
you know if confirmed this is something that I I think uh could be very exciting because you we we always look at the debt of the United States and we have fantastic assets that the could be uh earning leveraged the uh or Ed for multiple uh Revenue generating opportunities thank you I thank you Senator Warner thank you Mr chairman congratulations Mr Bessant it's um good to see you and enjoyed our meeting I've got some specific questions I want to ask but I just and I don't want to litigate this now um but I I do
feel as someone working with Senator kpo and others when we took on I still think the most comprehensive poach SMI Simpson bows and we took arrows from each side um and I'm looking at any kind of Progrowth policies possible but I just respectfully want to say there is not an industrial nation first world industrial nation the world that gets anywhere close to meeting their revenue needs and I'm not proposing that America spend anywhere like the Europeans at 17 to 18% of GDP it's never happened historically it's not going to happen in in a trump Administration
or future Democratic administrations so I just you know we'll have a time to talk back and forth on This but I just I I can't let some of this uh go without at least uh offering something that uh there's not an economist around that wouldn't concur we got to bring down re we got to bring down spend but the the revenue side alone is not excluding that we're never going to get to a balance I do want to raise on a more positive note again something I worked closely with the chairman on and actually worked
um with your predecessor on was was very proud Of that uh relationship I disagreed with secretary manuch on a lot of things but I found a lot of things to agree with him and one was a relatively narrow part of the financial sector called community development financial institutions cdfis um under the previous Trump Administration we put about $12 billion in this serves um access to capital for underserved communities uh under Senator kpo leadership we've built a bipartisan cdfi caucus 12 DS 12 RS it's try tough To get 24 bipartisan Senators agree on anything it's kind
of lwh hanging fruit there are things we can do to continue to expand uh this area creating a secondary market we've got some bipartisan legislation there trying to reward patient capital A lot of these institutions now have tier one equity but they've got to get patient capital and again Senator crle and I've worked with the current Administration would Want to work with yours on something called The Economic Opportunity Coalition but can you say a word or two about how you view um cdfis and this uh making sure that unders of communities get the access to
Capital so they can have their own American Dream how that fits into your Lexicon Senator Warner I I enjoyed talking to you about cdfis in your office I am the early part of my career was as a Financial services analyst so I I have a depth and breadth and I I believe that the breadth of the the US Financial Services uh industry is what makes the the US economy uh differentiates US economy from the rest of the world and I think the addition of these cdfis into underserved communities are very important well I I I
appreciate that and again it's bipartisan and there are again you understand markets well if we could spark a secondary Market in this Debt if we could leverage and I'm talking about private capital and I know that's what my colleagues like a upot private Capital but we can leverage it exponentially um one of the things we discussed and I again we talked about this in my office and I don't want to you know um one of the things I I was happy to hear I feel very strongly that we cannot reward Vladimir Putin's you aggressive outrageous
behavior in Ukraine and I think the ukrainians have performed remarkably obviously they have Manpower issues I see this from the Intel side on a daily basis one of the areas that I think we have not done as well and and candidly uh the sanctions regime uh I don't think uh was as effective as it should have been and I frankly think the Biden Administration waited too late to put some of these additional sanctions On oil and and tankers um the ability for to Russia to uh to retool listen I hope if president Trump can settle
this um Hallelujah uh the world would be better off but one of the things we discussed in my office with the potential to actually increase the sanctions regime as a way to help further leverage that would you would you care to talk for a moment about about that again uh yes so Senator Warner I I believe that the sanctions Regime especially well F first of all I I would say in my adult life that the tragedy going on in Ukraine is is one one of the greatest tragedies the of my adult life and ending that
the as soon as possible U an in role the treasury can play in that if confirmed I I would like to do um as we discussed I believe that the sanctions uh were not fome enough I believe that uh we U I believe that the previous administration was worried About raising us Energy prices uh during an election season and I am perplexed to see that now National Security adviser Sullivan on his way out the door is raising the sanctions level on Russian oil companies and indeed the oil prices the in the US are up about
9% this month so what was good for that Administration is being voed on us uh but having gone from I I think low-level sanctions to midlevel that if any Official in the Russian Federation are watching this confirmation hearing they should know that if I'm confirmed and if president Trump requests and as part of his strategy to end the Ukraine war that I will be 100% on board for taking sanctions up especially on the Russian oil Majors to levels that would bring the Russian Federation to the table and I will only take 30 second Mr let
me just get 30 seconds thank you for That because I think it's important that we don't take these tools out of the toolkit we can litigate what the past administration did and when they did it but increasing pressure on Putin to bring about a resolution I very much appreciate your willingness and I hope you will be an advocate for keeping those sanctions on and actually advancing them even further thank you Mr chair thank you Senator Warner Senator lenford thank you Mr chairman Mr Bon Good to see you again uh thanks for the time in the
office to be able to talk through a lot of these details as well I was interested to be able to hear your statistic you shared earlier that after the tax cuts and jobs Act of 2017 now we've had several years to be able to see what happens and now I believe the statistic you gave is the top 50% of earners in America now pay 98% of the taxes did I hear that correctly because I've heard over and over again that it Was only the wealthy only the big companies that get it I would encourage quite
frankly every Oklahoma company uh that's a small business to ask their CPA this year when they're filing their taxes what if the tax cuts and jobs Act expires next year what would my taxes be next year and have small business owners ask that question of their CPA and I think they will be quite surprised based on all the rhetoric to say this is only about big companies and wealthy people That every small business will quickly find out oh it's them as well it'd be the same thing on the child tax credit if tax cuts and
jobs act goes away it gets cut in half in the child tax credit and all the inversions that were Happ under the Obama Administration where American companies were being bought up by Foreign entities now that's actually switched Now American companies are buying foreign companies and those jobs are coming here so there's been a Tremendous amount of benefit in that the one challenge that we've had on this committee has been a conversation with Janet Yellen about pillar two and it started really four years ago now three years ago where the conversation was about well we really
don't need Congress to act on this we feel like we can do unilaterally we can change America's tax policy for all businesses in America and now in the last year they've shifted and say well we're going to have to come Back to you at some point to be able to get this in the meantime a deal has been negotiated that literally helps European countries and hurts the United States on this and they negotiated a deal that exempts China from being affected by this at all my question to you is are you going to engage on
this issue of pillar two number one have this Committee involved in writing taxes which seems to be consistent with the Constitution and then what is your Message to other countries if they try to implement pillar two on American businesses thank you thank you Senator uh as we discussed in your office Senator Langford that I I believe that any uh especially European country but any country that in the next few days before President Trump takes office is intent on implementing pillar two will find it a great mistake that the taxation of us companies is a sovereign
issue and it is res it that Authority Lies with this Congress and I will respect that I will work with you to undo what I think the has been the a a terrible policy yeah which I would agree and many members in this committee would agree not only they they went around Congress violating the Constitution but it deliberately hurt American companies and I I just think that's really terrible policy on it it truly was America last uh policy uh on the energy side you've talked a lot about energy Production uh I'm Oklahoma and unashamedly we're
all the above and all the below energy uh we probably have more wind in hydro and solar production in my state than any other state on this Diaz with very few exceptions but we also use oil and gas uh and we we're going to produce all the energy that our our state needs uh to be able to make sure that we stay stable on that one of the issues that is a business issue for small or large businesses that I've been Fighting for is a stable bonus depreciation amount this is not about the type of
energy or the type of business even it's if you're actually investing in your company and trying to grow your company that you would know with that bonus depreciation now this will help with pipeline Productions but it will also help a pet shop and a hair salon and a restaurant uh just as much as well and so thoughts on bonus appreciation and just a stable rate for That uh so Senator lenord you're referring to the 100% immediate yes what has been in the past but for quite frankly a stable rate period right now we have a
diminishing rate that's unpredictable yes so I I I think that increasing the a after tax return on capital for us companies especially small business is one of the greatest forms of job creation that we could see and the to uh go back to your point on energy production we've heard much here Today saying that we are at a record amount of energy production and we know that's a Canard we are barely above where we were in 2020 and if we were to look at the department of energy projections for 2024 and 2025 we are well
below those the past four years we have seen us production constrained and part of a fulsome sanctions program would mean that we need more energy production in the US to make up for the loss of sanctioned Russian oil to Protect the US consumer right which is American jobs which is American Income which one of the things we're going to have to deal with is the intangible drilling cost punishment that was actually put on all the independent oil and gas companies in my state and everywhere else that drives up the cost for consumers as well that's
another issue that this committee needs to take on Mr chairman thank you thank you Senator Hassen well thank you Mr Chairman and again congratulations on your position I look forward to working with you and all of our colleagues on the committee and thank you Mr bzen for being here congratulations on your nomination and for your willingness to serve and welcome to your husband and children as well we are grateful uh for their willingness to share you with the country um I appreciate you meeting with me in this process and sharing your priorities at treasury if
you are Confirmed and I want to follow up on some of those topics today I also just want to associate myself uh with the comments of my colleagues Senator Bennett and Senator Warren uh Warner uh I certainly believe we need to cut taxes for working people and we need to make sure the wealthiest pay their fair share and um with regard to Senator Warner's comments on sanctions um you mentioned if Vladimir Putin is watching this hearing he's not the only one watching This hearing China is watching this hearing and we have talked about the importance
of making sure that we are not only competitive but outperforming China uh for economic purposes as well as for national security reasons um and as important as a resolution in Ukraine is uh history tells us that appeasing tyrants at the expense of Freedom Fighters never works and it is critically important not only uh for the Ukrainian people and for the freedom of All of us but it is important because China and North Korea are also watching what we do and watching of this hearing and how we will go forward imposing sanctions to turn to some
of the topics that we discussed when we met in my office the research and development tax deduction was one of them it's critical to helping us out compete countries like China currently China provides a 200% super deduction for R&D while American businesses can only immediately deduct 10% for R&D I've worked with Senator Young on a bipartisan effort to restore the full and immediate R&D deduction so do you support restoring the full and immediate R&D deduction will you work with me and my colleagues to get this across the Finish Line in Congress uh Senator I I
enjoyed the meeting in your office uh I am not fully versed in this but my inclination is that this is something that I would support and I will get back to you if confirmed I will Get back to you very quickly on it and we'll make a priority make it a priority do you agree it's an important tool for American companies to improve their competitiveness yes Senator thank thank you um one of my other top priorities is working on a bipartisan basis to lower costs for families uh under president- elect Trump's policies do you believe
that prices for families will go up or down I I believe that inflation uh will be the much closer to the Federal Reserve Target of 2% and I believe that what we have seen over the past few years is that the bottom two quintiles have a very different basket of goods and services so there there are two ways we can either lower cost or we can get real wages up I would hope that we would be able to do both so you believe that President Trump's policies will incre further increase wages uh and lower inflation
I I believe that they will increase real wages and Lower inflation closer to the Federal Reserve 2% Target as it did did the during President Trump's first Administration are there any specific policies proposed by the president-elect that you expect will increase prices for families uh there not nothing I can immediately think of so that's a no if the president elect were to propose a policy that you believe will increase prices would you advise against it uh I would advi I Would speak to president Trump about it it is his decision and I believe that we
think that if we look back that it is a complete composite uh return uh in terms of aggregate inflation numbers and I think it's very difficult well if you believe I have limited time so if you believe that a policy that is proposed by President Trump would increase prices would you advise him against doing it yes or no I I can't answer that question question because it it's a Hypothetical all right let's move on to when we met prior to the hearing you told me that President Biden was responsible for increased prices over the past
four years something we can litigate but I don't want to right here by the same token I assume you would agree that if prices increase in the next four years president-elect Trump would be responsible uh I think there could be a variet variety of reasons I think that it could be the we we will See the policies of the Federal Reserve the the spending policies Congress sets the spending policies so look I I'm just going to I'm going to cut to the chase because I'm out of time but uh at the end of the day
what you're articulating is a double standard and it's disappointing to me thank you Mr chair thank you Senator D chairman thank you Mr pent good to have you here this morning I I think we're seeing here in this committee is we really do have a Divide between two very different philosophies about how to go forward and what's best best for the American people in this economy what's best for Global competitiveness I remember sitting right in this chamber as we were debating whether or not we should launched the multiple trillion doll massive spending bills which is
a$2 trillion doll covid Bill the inflation reduction act massive multi-trillion dollar bills that even Democrat former secretaries of Treasury Said could be inflationary and indeed it was you compare that outcome to what we are going to return back to the policies of the prior Trump Administration that when you lower taxes for businesses the American people you create more tax revenue you create more economic activity you create more wage growth particularly for minorities as well and you start to get back into winning in terms of global competitiveness we stop the inversions we it was absolutely like
Boom went from multiple inversion to zero once we move forward of this and I couldn't be proud of what we did boldly back during the Trump Administration we tried to fight against during this Administration these massive out of- control spending bills that were inflationary and the American people suffer greatly with these high levels inflation higher mortgage rates and so forth and so I'm glad to have you as uh our next secretary teria work with you To restore sanity back to where we were under President Trump congratulations on your nomination your willingness to serve uh with
the expiration coming of these tax rates we're facing a 4.3 trillion doll tax increase if we don't act this year as we begin drafting this bill and I applaud chairman kpo he brought us together as ranking member last year prior to getting the majority back anticipating we might have this moment And we started talking about what what are some key themes then we got into the details over several months of working group for this next tax bill to renew and protect preserve the the tax rates and prevent a $4 trillion tax increase one of the
key words was permanency permanency um I've expressed my support for the use of current policy Baseline I've expressed my support for permanency because we add uncertainty here in Congress with expiring tax code Provisions it's time to make them permanent to take one additional burden away from the American people wondering what's going to happen with Congress whether my tax rates will depend on what happens in the next election or what happens if Congress going to act let's take that off the table with permanency my question Mr bassen is you've said we need to grow our way
out of our current economic situation I couldn't agree more And that's just the the philosophical divide we Face here somebody who embracing more the supply side idea reduce rates unleash Capital into the into the the free markets and let them those markets decide where that investment relies versus a bunch of bureaucrats here in Washington with wasteful spending how does permanency and certainty of the tax code affect our ability to grow out of these problems uh Senator D I've enjoyed Getting to know you over the past year the with with your work on the national Republican
Senate committee and talking to you in your office and Al also discussing your history and the private sector both of the big company and small companies and that a question like that makes it clear to me that you understand the incentives that it is incentives that drive everything in tax policy and I can tell you that since November 5th for small businesses we have seen the Biggest increase in optimism since they have been keeping the metrics so certainty small business owners many of whom they are passed through corporations uh believe that we will get the
tax uh tcja across the line I think we could see a bigger increase in optimism you know in economics when we have something we can't Define we call it animal spirits and I think we are seeing Animal Spirits the a nent move up but permanency and Forward guidance gives people certainty we get capital investment we get hiring we get real wages employers want to keep ret keep train and the uh expand their Workforce so you everyone wins with permanency certainty you know a kind of forward guidance for tax policy I think would be one of
the things that could unleash this new golden age that President Trump has talked about yeah I make one statement I know I'm out of time here Mr chairman but when you take A look at the private sector jobs in America about 140 million private sector jobs 88 million of those jobs are from past from pass through entities that's about 63% which tells me that and that's the part that's expiring I mean the corporate rates are staying permanent it's the pass through rates those 88 million jobs 63% of the private sector jobs are taken look at
what's going to happen here in Washington over the Course of the next 6 to8 months very very important we make these rates permanent and prevent a tsunami of 4.3 trillion tax increase that would come if we don't act thank you Mr bent thank you Senator Cortez masto thank you Mr chairman uh Mr Bess good to see you thank you for meeting with me welcome to your family as well um let me ask you this I'm going to talk a little bit about the ACA premium tax credits over 880,000 of my constituents in Nevada Receive that
premium tax credit to assist them in in affording their health care coverage and on average these credits lower an Americans health insurance costs by $530 per month Congress provided an enhanced PTC in 2021 but that policy expires this year and without the enhanced PTC in place millions of Americans are going to lose their health coverage so as the person most responsible for tax policy in the incoming Administration um would you Commit to opposing any attempt to remove or not renew these credits uh Senator as we discussed it in your office and as it's just been
a brief time since we met I committed to you that I would research this I have not had time to do it before this hearing but if if confirmed I would uh get back to you the with all deliberate speed in in investigating this thank you I appreciate that and and um let me just say you would agree that these tax Credits because they're current policy they actually extend current tax policy costs excuse me that you agree that extending current tax policy actually costs money uh I again I I think I don't understand the Nuance
of that question but I will get back to you on it okay I appreciate that um you have been um supportive of of many of President Trump's tariff plans and I've heard the conversation there um so I am not going To go into that we've talked a little bit about it in in my office but let me let me jump back to um these uh credits that were imposed that some of my colleagues are against but they have benefited Nevada and I want to talk to you a little bit about it the 45x manufacturing tax
credit supports thousands of jobs uh in the Reno area and billions and investment across my state it also is key to reducing dependence on China for the critical Minerals we need for our military and supports mining jobs in Nevada we are a mining State we are mining critical minerals and so um will you commit to opposing any effort to repeal or reduce the 45x tax credit which is not just a benefit in Nevada it's a benefit in in other states as well including Alaska so again Senator I I am unfamiliar with that exact provision but
I do believe that it is important for us to uh mine accumulate and move to domestic Production for uh rare Earths and other vital minerals so I I will get back to you on that exact my thoughts on that exact program but on a atmospheric meta basis I I agree with the direction of travel thank you um let me ask you this we also talked about this President Trump has stated he thinks the that the a president should have influence over the decisions of the federal Reser Reserve um and I I we discussed this in
in my office um and I appreciate uh that Opportunity does it continue to be your view that the Federal Reserve should be independent of the president uh of course and I actually believe that the the notion that President Trump believes he should have influence uh there was I believe a highly in accurate Wall Street Journal article saying that the he believed something to the effect of he should be in the room president Trump is going to make his views known as many senators did uh three Senators including Two on this committee called for there was
a jumbo rate cut in September 50 basis points two of the Senators on this committee called for ask my Senator colleagues I get the politics on their sides I'm asking you but it but let me just say but you don't devate from our conversation that you think that there should be Independence I I think on monetary policy decisions the fomc should be independent thank you I appreciate that uh and then for the Benefit of our colleagues you what you're referring to earlier is in our meeting I asked you um if there are any um regulations
Treasury regulations that currently exist that you disagree with and in response and continuing in response right now you're saying you're going to look into it and get back to me is that right uh well uh look I I I I believe as we saw I don't know if it's a regulation but it's a policy as we saw from the December 88th hack by the some Chinese entities into the treasury which is very serious that that was through a work from home uh software app so one of one of the policies that I support I intend
to be in the building every day that I am in Washington and I support a return to the office which is against the uh current treasury policy right and I appreciate that if there are any others that you oppose uh and you can share with me doesn't have To be right now get back to me I appreciate that of course I'm ha happy to provide that in writing all right thank you thank you so much thank you Mr chairman thank you Senator young Mr Besson good to see you congratulations again on uh your nomination to
this important position and and uh thank you for your willingness to serve our country um I'll tell you what I'm looking for in a treasury secretary I'm looking for Someone who has a a clear record of professional accomplishment U uh a distinguished AC academic record would be uh a bonus you have those things I'm looking for someone who is thoughtful what I care less about is is the performative dimension of the job I have to tell you uh that so there's a lot of chatter in Washington uh about that but I do appreciate your thoughtful
answer answers uh here this morning so uh I'm going to dive in and begin by asking you Uh about um uh a dimension of of your role uh as treasury secretary you will inherit the role of of chair on the committee on foreign investment in the United States also known as cfus that reviews foreign investments in American Industries and uh very recently President Biden blocked nipon Steels a quisition of us Steel on National Security grounds um yet he and the administration provided no Clear uh substantiated evidence uh publicly at least to justify this decision for
my home state uh this abrupt action has instilled a lot of anxiety particularly in the Gary Indiana area where there's nearly $1 billion in Investments that were promised if the nipon US steel deal were to reappear before cyphus sir uh do you commit today to an impartial review an impartial review particularly when political pressure was initially Permitted to overshadow an honest assessment of National Security vulnerabilities Senator young thank thank you for the question and I understand the imperative for job the for your constituents uh in Indiana uh I president Trump most recently has also spoken
out against the deal uh but if if the deal is uh the statute uh indicates you should that you are charged with providing impartial reviews that's all I'm asking would you be following that law or not sir uh impartial reviews sure so it it is currently in litigation the review is closed but if it reappears that CPUs they will conduct the the same review that it always does yes sir okay well thank you uh we may have an opportunity to uh work together on that effort uh Mr bessent your nomination comes at a time when
tariffs are are Central to our economic debates particularly on issues like inflation Supply chain resilience and job creation Now I believe that in moderation tariffs uh for a Time strengthen America's negotiating leverage with other nations and U they can strengthen certain National Security relevant Industries but overuse overuse of tariffs can inflate costs and provoke trade retaliation as hooer Farmers have experienced firsthand over the years uh they often bear the impact of these Retaliatory measures leaving already thin margins much more vulnerable what concrete steps would you take to Shield these Indiana producers if major trading partners
impose steep duties and how do you envision the treasury Department's role in supporting them thank thank you Senator young as I mentioned before and I may have mentioned it when I was in your office uh our family is involved in the farming business so and soybeans and corn so I'm Very sensitive the to this and very up Tod dat uh the American farmers have been the very loyal uh 90% of rural voters voted for President Trump so they should know that his that their interest are his interest and when you a ask what I would
do specifically uh I have said recently the Biden administ Administration kept on all of the Trump tariffs but what they did not do in the agreement with China was enforce the purchase Provisions so uh if Confirmed next week if confirmed I would begin pushing for the purchase guarantees that were in the China agreement to be enforced and perhaps they pushed the Chinese for a catch-up provision over the past four years just a quick followup uh in terms of the application of tariffs know a skilled negotiator might sometimes use broad tariffs uh to gain leverage and
then in other cases a more sector specific approach could be effective so what Criteria or perhaps benchmarks would you use to inform your decision uh to go with across the board measures uh or or more surgical tariffs and and um do you believe there should be any built-in Caps or triggers to prevent an unintended escalation so uh Senator I haven't been confirmed yet uh president Trump isn't in office but I I would imagine that you the American people should think about tariffs in Three ways under the Trump Administration one will be for remedying remedying unfair
Trade Practices either by industry or country uh all the Chinese tariffs the steel uh two may be for a more generalized tariff uh as a revenue Razer the for the the federal budget and three uh president Trump I think has uh added a third use of tariffs as you said as a skilled negotiator uh to uh he believes that we've probably gotten Over Skuse of it on sanctions and that sanctions may be driving countries out of the use of the US dollar so the tariffs can be used for negotiations whether it's for Mexico on the
fentol crisis the so you know I I think you and the American people should think about those three broad categories thank you we need to we need to move on and next is Senator Sanders senator Sanders I I don't believe you were here when I welcomed everyone to the committee this Morning but uh as a new member of the committee I personally welcome you and look forward to working with you thank you very much and it's a pleasure to be here um Mr Besson thanks very much for being in the office the other day uh
Mr bent the United States today has more income and wealth inequality than has ever existed in the history of our country you got three people on top uh Mr musk Mr Bezos and Mr Zuckerberg who are now worth almost a Trillion dollars that is more than half of the bottom of our society uh some 170 million people three people more wealth in the bottom 170 million we have more concentration of ownership today than we have ever had uh we have more concentration of ownership in the media we're a handful of billionaires like musk Bezos rid
Murdoch uh increasingly own the media and the information that the American people receive we have a corrupt campaign Finance system uh in Which a small number of billionaires in both political parties make huge contributions uh into the presidential and Congressional campaigns when you have a small number of multi-billionaires who have enormous econom IC media and political power would you agree uh with President Biden who last night stated and I quote an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth power and influence that threatens our entire democracy our basic Rights and freedoms end of quote
that's what President Biden said last night I agree with him do you uh Senator Sanders I enjoyed our visit you talk a little bit closer into the mic I I enjoyed her visit and I hope you got my my follow-up materials that we on the discussions my previous writings on the tariffs in China um and look the the three billionaires who you listed that all made the money themselves the m m Mr Musk came to the country as an immigrant I understand that but what I'm asking you is when you have a handful of people
like musk who will soon be part of the Trump Administration and others when you have three people owning more wealth than the bottom half of American society when these people have enormous influence over the media when they spend huge amounts of money in both political parties to elect candidates what Biden said last lers were moving toward an Oligarchy I'm asking you that question do you think forget how they made their money do you think that when so few people have so much wealth and so much economic and political power that that is an oligarchic form
of society well I I I would note that the President Biden gave the presidential medal freedom to two people who I think would qualify for his oligarchs so this is not a condemnation of any one individual I'm just asking you would so Few people have so much wealth and power but do you think that that is an oligarchic form of society uh Senator I I think it depends on the the the ability to move up and down the income no that's not really the answer I mean even if you had that Mobility no matter who
those individuals might be all right but let me ask you another question uh right now in America uh we have over 22 million workers who are making less than $15 an Hour and nearly 40 million people in our country earning less than $17 an hour shamefully uh the federal minimum wage despite the efforts of myself and other people here have not been raised since 2009 and remains an unbelievable $725 an hour will you work with those of us who want to raise the federal minimum wage to a living wage to take millions of Americans out
of poverty uh Senator I I believe that the minimum wage is more of a Statewide and Regional issue so you Don't think we should change the federal minimum wage of $725 an hour uh no sir okay uh Mr bent uh millions of workingclass Americans who are struggling to keep their heads above water are paying outrageously High interest rates on their credit cards over half the American people who take out new credit cards are being charged interest rates of over 24% 24% during his campaign president-elect Trump promised that he was going to cap credit Card interest
rates at 10% uh I happen to think that that is a very good idea and I will soon be introducing legislation uh to do just that will you as if you are confirmed be supportive of what president-elect Trump said and what I want to see happen and that is to cap credit card interest rates at 10% uh senat Senator I think we can both agree that credit card many credit card companies have been bad actors the have Throughout history and I will get back to you once very simple question Trump said he wants the cap
credit card interest rates at 10% I agree with them will be you be supportive of what Trump and I would like to do when President Trump takes office and if I am confirmed I will follow what president Trump wants to do okay thank you very much Mr chairman thank you very much next is Senator Smith thank you very much Mr chair and Ranking member and I'm great to be a part of this committee I appreciate it very much and um welcome Mr bessent it's uh it's nice to see you again um I want to follow
up a bit on the conversation that we had um yesterday and um just get into a little bit more detail and actually some of the issues that Senator Sanders is Raising um I'm focused on how we can lower costs for Americans and how we can make this economy work better for regular people In this country and when we spoke yesterday we talked generally about this and you have said that you think our biggest challenge um is to get after the deficit and you've also said that your first priority is to extend the Republican Trump tax
cuts which would add $4.6 trillion doar to the federal deficit um and you've also said that the Trump Republican tax cuts have generated economic growth and that those benefits um are going to have trickled down to Everyone else but what I see is that these Republican tax cuts have delivered massive consolidation of wealth at the top almost half of those benefits went to the top 5% the top 1% got a tax cut that was 852 times bigger than the one that the was that was received by the lowest earning Working Families in this country and
now these wealthy people have more money than they know what to do with you see Elon Musk buying Twitter and now He's got an office in the old executive office building and a seat on the platform when the president is inaugurated and these Tech billionaires are launching Rockets into space and building themselves these lavish Doomsday Bunkers buying up newspapers all of which gives them more power so what I want to ask you is it seems to me that this concentration of wealth is not good for our country and it is certainly not doing anything to
lower prices for Working Families in Minnesota or help them afford a home or child care in fact it seems like it's doing the opposite of that so could you comment on this uh yes and uh Senator Smith I I I believe that President Trump and if confirmed myself uh are committed to addressing this affordability crisis and part of the affordability crisis stems from this great inflation that we've had the since the 2020 it was nent in 2021 it occurred in 22 23 um we are still substantially Above Target My Hope Is that we will not
see uh it accelerating again and inflation is one of the great Killers for Working Families as we talked about in your office the the CPI or pce the statistical numbers may be up about 20 22% uh under the previous administration but the basket of goods and services for Working Families so getting inflation down getting interest rates down and addressing this affordability crisis and Yeah so and as you know inflation is coming down and one of the things that I think we saw um during the course of um the last couple of years was these big
Consolidated corporations with so much Market power jacking up their prices Way Beyond the amount um of money that they would have had to have raised their prices in order to cover their costs so in my view this level of corporate consolidation is actually hurting Americans it is hurting um the price It's costing people more and that in fact the Republican Trump tax bill that we are you know there's such a move to reinstate or to extend is going to contribute to that problem not um not make it better but let me ask you another question
you've also said that in order to get our fiscal house in order we need to cut spending we need to deregulate and we need to privatize so I want to just look at how what we are seeing with some privatizing in the Private sector that is of great concern to me let's look at Health Care we've seen a move by big corporate investors into health care and especially hospitals terrible stories we've heard about rural Hospitals and Clinics getting shuttered maternity Wards getting shut down um and caused in part by this private Equity big Corporation purchasing
um um and mov moving in and controlling again concentration and health care and none of this of course Has lowered costs for Americans in fact the opposite people's costs have spiked so I wonder do you see this kind of model of big corporate takeovers of Health Care actually helping to lower costs for Americans the uh Senator Smith uh healthc care I probably had health trying to understand healthc care cost and the drivers of that on my to-do list for 10 years to be able to sit in a room for a week and understand this and
I've never Been able to do it but you know I will tell you that when we see things like Health Care like higher education uh you know both of which have uh substantially outperformed any inflation index by cost there there is a problem there um I I think that what you identifying could be one of the problems but I think the level overall level of Health Care cost that we're seeing uh is driven by a multiactor it is a complicated issue and I know I'm out of time Mr chair but what I see and we've
done work on this and chair Sanders um when chair Sanders was chair of the health committee with these big corporations come in the quality of care goes down patient cost go up there's a hospital in Massachusetts that bought up was bought up by one of these big firms and they stopped stocking a common Treatment for Hemorrhage during pregnancy and they've seen patients die so again I think this is an example of how privatizing is not a solution to our problems in health care or other parts of our economy thank you Mr chair thank you Senator
Johnson thank you Mr chairman Mr Besson welcome thank you for your willingness to serve I want to just start by refuting one of the false narratives we hear ad ad nauseum from the other side that the tax cut and jobs Act was the primary cause of our of deficits it's just not true so I'm going to actually use the facts from CBO again this isn't to confirm CBO numbers this actually shows you why we ought to take CBO projections with the grain of salt uh after its passage CBO projected 10 years but I mean for
seven years that we've just experienced total revenue of$ 27 trillion actual Revenue was $28.7 trillion that's to do the math that's $1.7 trillion more than what CBO estimated which shows it it the original score was 1.5 trillion lost Revenue so we not only paid for the tax cut in s years we generated $200 billion more Revenue even with the co recession so again we need to take CBO uh scores with real grain assault but I hope this committee understands what Senator Graham was talking about in terms of your humble beginnings and your tremendous American uh
success story so I want ask you I want to ask you hypothetical because because you understand American families uh if an American Family let's say they normally spend $100,000 have a serious health crisis and so in one year they have to spend $50,000 on on medical bills but then fortunately that that family member gets well what would that family spend the next year just real quick unless they have more income they'd spend $100,000 they'd Spend the same hundred and probably have debt costs associated with that right they they certainly would do what the federal government
has done in 2019 before the pandemic we spent $4.4 trillion in 2020 we spent 6.5 6.6 trillion you know when the pandemic ended we didn't really reduce spending for the last five years we've averaged $6.5 trillion last year spending $6.9 trillion know mron is is there any justification for keep keep in spending Levels at this level uh Senator Johnson as I've said repeatedly the the United States does not have a revenue problem we have a we have a spending problem spending problem so the question is how do we reset spending levels to a reasonable pre-pandemic
level I've you know wrote a column in the Wall Street Journal I laid out a couple scenarios and let me just give you the the guts of it if you take one of the prepandemic years and increase all the spending by Population inflation by the way that's that's what families would do as well um but you exempt Social Security Medicare and interest and and use President Biden's 2025 budget because you you spend you know what we plan on spending this year if you take Bill Clinton's 1998 spending I don't think he spent too little back
in 1998 we would be having a baseline of 5.5 trillion if you took President Obama's 2014 spending levels it'd be $6.2 trillion the one one I like The best though is if if we use president Trump's 2021 budget his estimates for spending in 2025 and use again inflate just use those numbers but slide in Social Security Medicare and interest as they are nobody's touching those we'd be spending us about $6 trillion so wouldn't that be a reasonable level somewhere between 5.5 and6 trillion do is a baseline spending to project our next 10 Years Senator I
I look forward to working with you on this that you clearly done more work than I have and uh this looks like a very good starting point to me to to figure out the how we've gotten into this spending morass so it sounds like pretty reasonable approach to me by the way I'd take 1998 I'd use Clinton spinning levels for this I also want to refute this current CBO score on uh extending the tcga back then they they they scored the Whole thing as $1.5 trillion uh if you just inflate that the same way CB
you know according to CPI it'd be $2 trillion you how do they justify a score of 4.3 to 4.6 trillion it makes no sense so again I think we need to take those estimates with a huge grain of salt my final point I heard the ranking member talk about inflation the cost of living uh because we've incurred these massive deficits a $1 1998 today is only worth 51 a $ 2014 today is only worth 74 a $29 is only worth 80 that was caused by this massive deficit spending the devaluation of the dollar and a
lot of devaluations occurred over the last four years because we spent too much money not not because we didn't tax America enough it's because we spent way to much money thank you Mr chairman thank you Senator catwell thank you so much Mr chairman uh Mr bent uh congratulations on your Nomination and I see your family um sitting there in Earnest on these economic issues it's so interesting uh our perspectives you can see from this committee are arguing about what we think are the right economic policies for the country and as the treasury nominee uh with
your background and experience we still are talking about the president's policies and whether we Think they're effective or not uh real GDP has increased at an annual rate of uh 3.1% in the third quarter of 2024 that's strong growth right uh uh as an aggregate number it's strong growth okay the economy added 16 million jobs over the last four years an average unemployment rate is the lowest since been in 50 years so that's led to better pay and working conditions we want that right I I'm in favor of better pay and Working conditions yes Senator
and after tax income increased by 400% so these are these are good economic news and I I personally think that focusing on Innovation and Building Supply chains is a good thing to do and so when you start talking about tariffs that's when you get you know the Pacific Northwest attention in fact I would say a recent uh editorial by one of my newspapers was you know bracing for the the Trump tariffs aviation in general you can Imagine we actually have uh an actual net Surplus I think we export about2 billion dollar worth of goods out
of our state versus importing one billion dollar but this is a big part of it and so in the a in the aviation sector I think I sent you an article about the fact that we think in increasing our manufacturing Innovation to continue to have markets and sell to those markets as a good economic strategy Senator K well as I discussed In your office that in my hometown of Charleston South Carolina Boeing is also the largest employer so I view Aviation is very important great so now I want to I this is is and and
believe me I would have the same conversation with Joe Biden or Barack Obama or whoever so I want to focus on Innovation not the T the tariffs I'm worried that the tariffs are going to increase supply chain products they're going to increase prices on our Farmers They're going to increase prices on Americans and so um I want to ask you what do you don't you think we are in environment where exporting products and growing markets outside the United States is a big Economic Opportunity and what are you going to do to build coalitions to help
us be able to achieve opening up those markets as opposed to just the retaliatory tariff environment which may raise costs on Americans and not resolve these issues so Senator Kentwell thank you for that and after our discussion in your office I actually went back and looked at some older data in 2000 uh in terms of the labor share of aggregate income in the US 69% acred to Labor uh today that number is 60 and you could see a sharp drop after what is called the China shock so I I agree with you that opening markets
is good but the uh free trade has must be the also balanced against fair trade and clearly what has happened Is the trade has not been fair that has fallen on the American workers and we cannot allow as I think I mentioned to you China is the most imbalanced unbalanced economy in the history of the world they are in a severe recession SL depression they may have 4% um disinflation and they are attempting to export their way out of that as opposed to doing the much needed internal Rebalance so you know I am with you
on the need to open markets but we cannot allow a player like this the to flood our markets or to flood the world well I I but I'm I'm saying I believe in coalitions we disc discuss a technology NATO I think thought that was a good idea the notion though I I mean I can get upset with my colleagues on the other aisle all the time and and object but that doesn't move me forward and so I I hope that you will look at what We're going to do to build allies I mean these numbers
uh that basically are talking about just the Tariff and what it would do to the price of gasoline given um uh Canada is concerning and so I want to know that that the the Trump Administration is going to focus as much on innovating our way to success as we are on the tariffs because I I do think we're going to see ralit tariffs we saw them in our state it hurt us in our Agriculture and what happened is that You lose more Farms I mean there's a lot of people buying Farmland Goldman Sachs Bill Gates
there's a lot of people buying Farmland but we're losing farmers in the middle of the trade Wars and that's a concern I have thank you Mr chairman and oh by the way thank you so much for mentioning housing I so appreciate that that was in your statement I look forward to working with you I do think that's an area if the president will push forward that it is a Way for us to lower costs thank you thank you Senator Luhan thank you Mr chairman uh good to be with you Mr bant thank you and your
family for being with us today I very much appreciated the conversation we had in the office now I'm going to touch on several topics so I'm going to ask you some yes or no questions and I thank you in ADV for your brevity um it may surprise many observing today the immense responsibility that the Secretary of Treasury has in stemming the flow of fentol and other substances now yes or no will you commit to continuing the Biden administration's Counter fentol Strike Force which brought together the office of terrorism and financial intelligence and IRS criminal investigation
to fight Financial crime thank you Senator I enjoyed our visit that and as I mentioned uh in your office this is personal for me as two families who are close to our family uh Lost children to the fentol crisis so I I will commit and know that uh it is my belief that President Trump is laser focused on this issue Mr Ben Benet yes or no will you work with me to ensure that there's more transparency over suspicious activity reports SARS at the financial crimes Network for congress uh I I believe as you and I
discussed uh there is a sleeve of Treasury called TFI Terrorism finance that deals with this with within uh fsen and I I believe that we uh I I believe that we have to have a 2025 approach to you as you and I talked about uh digital currencies uh and and all all branches of government so yes now Mr B in your role as treasury secretary do you agree that you will play an important role in advising president Trump and Congressional Republicans on policy related to the Economy including investment in government programs yes senator now I
was pleased at our meeting that you stated quote no Cuts will be needed unquote to achieve your economic goals I think that might surprise a lot of my Republican colleagues but I very much appreciate that conversation that we had now yes or no will you recommend cutting Medicaid I'm I'm sorry uh did you I Didn't hear what you said Medicaid or medic yes or no will you recommend cutting Medicaid Medicaid that um I I will it's the the business of Congress to do the budget and I um I am in favor of empowering States and
I believe that for some states that will be an increase for some states that will be a decrease so Mr bent will you recommend cutting Medicaid to president Trump and I'll remind you that you acknowledg that One of your responsibilities as Secretary of the Treasury will be to be providing this advice uh I I will get back to you on this when the I I have seen the details of the the full budget proposal once president Trump is in office and if confirmed will you recommend cuts to broadband following um the Investments that we've been
seeing across the country making immense uh uh progress in connecting more people people across the Country that were included in the bipartisan infrastructure law uh the senator I am unfamiliar with the exact program it is my understanding that much of the allocated funding has not been dispersed yet so um I will get back to you on that well Mr bid a lot of folks back in South Carolina including some of your farming neighbors are getting connectivity because of these programs you may just need to chat with them About the importance of what this program means
um as my time expires um it might surprise many here that there's only a couple of us in this body that are members of headart and I imagine we might hear a little bit more of that from my my brother in headart Mr warno here but um when we talk about the importance to Early Education in America the economic benefit um yes or no will you recommend cuts to Head Start yeah again Senator I I'll have to get back to You on on this I I don't understand uh the intricacies of of that program I've
had start yes I I I don't understand the budget ramifications I don't understand do you know what Head Start is yep I I believe it's an early ear childhood education program that's fair sir I didn't realize that you have to qualify to get into that program so the family that I was raised in we qualified to get into that program um but it opens up doors I mean Heck it got a couple of us to the United States Senate um so certainly hope that we might be able to find some agreement in protecting that program
and uh if someone tries to eliminate that in early childhood education that we could count on you on behalf of New Mexicans South Carolinians and people across America to say no we're not going to do that one Mr chairman thank you for the time today appreciate you being here again sir thank you Senator barasso thanks so much Mr chairman uh thanks so much for your willingness to serve thanks for being here the enjoyed our discussion quite a bit in talking about the future for the country and the role of the treasury secretary in getting our
economy back on track this means lower prices higher wages more jobs and stronger economic growth for America it also means protecting people in States like Wyoming from crushing regulations and devastating tax Hikes uh it means getting wasteful spending under control and I'm greatly encouraged by our meeting that we had you have I believe a strong vision for America a wrong vision for unleashing American Energy for getting tough on China for getting tough on our adversaries and to getting the federal government out of the way for so many of us I'd like to talk a bit
about energy and i' just been in the other committee yesterday Secretary of Energy earlier Today the Secretary of interior lots of energy questions so I'm glad that we agree a key ingredient in reigniting the economy in this country is to unleash American Energy in my home state of Wyoming is an we're an energy superpower as a nation and we are America's energy Bread Basket in Wyoming energy production is the heart of our Wyoming economy and the nation's economy it supports workers uh as well as schools infrastructure the money that Comes from that the tax revenue
Wyoming is the least populated state but it is the third largest net energy supplier producing 12 times more energy than we consume it's at the Forefront of oil natural gas coal production carbon capture technology hydrogen production many alternative sources of of energy what's happened is that energy producers in Wyoming and across the country faced a whole of government assault from the Biden Administration on American energy production uh taxes crippling regulations they've weaponized the tax code in ways that are just Unthinkable to me against conventional American energy production the things that that Joe Biden signed into
law just made things worse but the good news is with you there with president Trump in the White House things are about to change so you've talked extensively about boosting American energy production what role do you see yourself Playing as treasury secretary in making sure we become American Energy dominant and in terms of energy security as well Senator baraso I very much enjoyed our meeting and wide ranging discussion and the my family and I had a fantastic vacation in Wyoming this summer uh that in terms of uh within the potential Trump Administration uh I'm sure
you've heard it from secretary designate Wright and beram uh we refer to as energy dominance and uh energy Dominance one of the reasons that I I believe we have not been able to apply the as muscular sanctions against the Russian Federation or unwilling was because the supply of energy was constrained in the US so the the same with the terrorist regime in Iran so I would view that as we can raise us production uh we would squeeze down the the Bad actors especially Iran uh I I think I'm right maybe not in the exact numbers
but in order of magnitude I Believe Iran was down to 100,000 barrels of oil exports when President Trump left office I believe that they are now exporting an excess or approximately 1.7 million so through sanctions policy I believe that we can again uh as I like to say make Iran poor again not the Iranian people the Iranian the government and then at the same time the have our domestic producers push that up with the highest energy standards in the world yeah we're the best we we do it We're the best stewards of the land and
I agree and what we've also seen as you mentioned with Iran increasing the sales we're selling it to China China is buying it at discount so they're getting cheap energy Iran is getting tanker loads of cash back essentially and that's they're using that money for terrorism so in terms of our own National Security I have one last question in my time remain and this has to do with the tax cuts and Jobs act that we passed in 2017 if that were to expire we're talking about a massive tax hike of over $4 trillion what would
that kind of a tax hike mean for small businesses for uh for job creators as well as our Global competitiveness if all of a sudden we put the heavy wet blanket of a $4 trillion do tax increase on our nation uh Senator I think it would be devastating that especially for small Businesses one of the things that as someone who came from a very small town lived in New York with a very big town and came back to a small town I I believe Wall Street has done great the past few years and that Main
Street has suffered I think it's main Street's time Wall Street can continue to do well maybe not as well and it's time to have a Main Street small business-led recovery uh led by uh small Banks Regional Banks uh as I call it repr Privatizing the economy and as I as I said earlier we've seen since November 15th since president Trump's election we have seen the biggest jump in the history of the small business confidence index thank you Mr chairman thank you Senator Tillis thank you Mr chair Mr Bon thank you for being here and time
in the office and uh congratulations to you your spouse John and your children I think Cole and Caroline he's doing a great job I leaned over to Senator Johnson and uh when you were being attacked on uh by one of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle it says the guy looks like he's got a heart rate of 40 you're very composed and I thank you for staying on the facts and demonstrating all the knowledge you possess uh when I wasn't here someone put in a question your viability is a nominee because of
a lack of public service uh which I find interesting sometimes I think we have too much Public Service in people's background here not real world business experience but can you give me an idea of why this nomination may represent your first entry into public service yes Senator Tillis and um again the as an adjacent State and someone who's a homeowner in North Carolina I appreciated our conversation in your office um look I I have been in public service just not in the government I when I lived in New York I was a strong Supporter of
a charter school called Harlem children's Zone which takes the young residents in a multiblock gigantic block keeps getting bigger area of Harlem and um takes them from cradle the through High School uh but I have found that my service anyone can write a check or anyone that with my means can write a check what has been fulfilling for me is mentoring many of these young people I'm still in touch with them today I was also a trustee for Rockefeller University one of the great research universities in the world or was on the executive committee and
the um uh chair of the investment committee but sitting here today is especially meaningful for me because this is my third tribe public service and 1979 when I was 17 years old I wanted to fight for my country um my father had just experienced extreme financial difficulties uh I wanted to attend the US Naval Academy I Was offered by our Congressman in the sixth district of South Carolina an appointment uh but was unable to take that appointment because of my sexual preference um I managed to go to Yale worked several jobs to do that uh
while at Yale I wanted to do public service and join the Foreign Service I was told also Al not welcome so sitting here today is my third attempt at public service and I sit here knowing that President Trump chose me because he Believes I'm the best candidate not because of my sexual preference not because treasury secretaries with green eyes do better and they I think it is a tribute to president Trump that he looks at people there as people I I I I agree and I appreciate that answer uh I'm going to go into a
lightning round here um first off this is the uh joint committee on taxation distributional analysis of what happens to the various socioeconomic strata if we don't manage To pass the jobs and tax cut extension uh without exception without objection um uh Senator Johnson does big foam boards I do handouts I'm handing this to all of my Republican colleagues right now saying if we fail to extend the jobs and tax cuts act we're going to own a fiscal crisis for people in Middle America 93 million people will be affected in terms of an added tax burden
if we fail to pass an extension of Tcja now the last time I checked there are not 93 million rich people in this country there are people who struggled like you did when you were a kid and like I did when I was a kid who had to work themselves through college and every time we had some well attention program from government to make things better for me it made it harder for me to dig myself out of the economic situation I was born into so the facts are subborn things this tells us what Happens
if we fail to pass the jobs and tax cuts and it doesn't even really it doesn't even get to the impact that I had turns out at that very table jelly roll um was here for a finance committee hearing he lived in the same trailer park that I did 20 years later in in South Nashville Tennessee and what I found interesting in my own family is we were right on the economic Edge every time government had some well-intentioned program to tax the rich I went from a house to a trailer park and every time government
let us do what we wanted to do we lived in a house I'm living example and I'm sure Ben R Luhan some other people have had those experience you got to go back and look historically at when people like me and people like you had real opportunities I look forward to supporting your nomination and uh Mr chair I'm going to support so I'm going to send some questions for the record but it's just To refor reinforce the message that Republicans have to deliver and anyone who says that we should not is advocating for a $5
trillion tax increase that will hurt the people who are on the economic Edge worse than anybody else thank you Mr chairman thank you Senator warau thank you chairman kpo I'm grateful and honored to be joining this committee I look forward to working with you and ranking member widen to ensure our tax code supports Working Families to protect so Social Security Medicare Medicaid and to promote trade policies that work for Georgia businesses and that boost our economy uh Mr bent uh good morning and good to see you again I enjoyed our conversation uh earlier this week
and in that conversation you outlined ambitious goals for the federal government and deficit reduction I'd like to follow up on our discussion uh about your economic uh plan according to A new report from the tax policy Center uh the largest tax cuts from extending the Trump tax bill would go to those with a highest income especially those in the top 1% making more than $1 million per year uh in fact the top 1% of owners will take home roughly one quarter of the benefits of the law and the top 5% uh will get almost half
of that do you believe that the wealthiest 1% of Americans deserve or need an Additional tax cut Senator Warner warock I greatly en enjoyed visiting with you um I uh I think probably a better way to look at it is on a percentage basis and when I think about the distributional aspects of the tax cuts and job acts that most of the benefits accured for the working and middle people as opposed to the upper ends in absolute dollars as you just read that is correct but I think it's important to look at it in Percentage
terms so you you you believe that the tax cut uh that provided uh one quarter of the benefits of the law uh to the top 1% and top 5% getting almost one half actually benefited those at the bottom more than it did those at the top is that your testimony uh I I believe that in 2018 2019 that the households in the bottom 50% of income earners the wealth increase from those those households was three Times Higher three times higher Than the wealth increase for the top 10% of Americans so we should continue to move
in that direction and give more tax cuts to to those at the highest you you uh have talked about high deficits as a National Defense problem and I agree with that I think we need to be fiscally responsible we need to work to close the deficit and bring the national debt under control in 2013 Congress extended the Bush tax cuts for everyone except those making more more than $400,000 a Year this bipartisan decision save the treasury $600 billion helping to narrow the deficit do you agree that ending the tax cuts for those making more than
400,000 would help close the deficit and reduce our national debt uh Senator War I do not I I believe that you would capture an inordinate amount of small business people who largely uh are in that cohort of 400,000 to a million you you wouldn't cut it off at $400,000 what about $1 million that again I believe These are small business pass through owners and I believe that we um you know as I said before wall Street's done great it is time for Main Street to do well and small businesses uh need to drive what I
call the reprivatization here away from this government spending I agree that it's it's Main Street type time I'm from Atlanta so I'll say peach tree and uh some other locations uh in my in my state what about those making more more than than 10 million would Would we reduce the deficit um uh by uh extending those tax cuts for folks making about a million $10 million so again I think it's important to that we put in incentives for them to invest so you know going back to the 100% depreciation for equipment that I I think
that so and I don't mean to keep interrupting but and I'm the pastor and and we're known to be loow question of speech but I'm running out of time here what about $1 Billion sir again that I I think that these are the job creators so there there's no income level for which you would support raising taxes is that fair uh there there is no income level that I don't think we should continue the tcja the as it was all right um I think our country is uh facing uh structural deficits however I I think
that they continue to reduce taxes for the wealthy and letting them avoid Taxes uh uh based on what they already oh is not going to get us out of that problem uh but I look forward to continuing that discussion with you thank you very much thank you senator thank you very much and and before we go on to Senator Blackburn I just want to restate there's a lot of facts that have been thrown around in this hearing today I'll just restate one that I said in my opening statement and that is of this 4.3 to
$4.6 trillion tax increase that It could happen $100,000 that is simp tax increase Senator Blackman thank you Mr chairman thank you for bringing that clarification because if we do not extend the tax cut and jobs act it is that $4 trillion tax hike that people are going to see and I appreciate your comments about a Main Street small business recovery that is something that is so vitally important and as the chair chman knows we have had much discussion Over the last few years with the Biden Administration over how they determine that $400,000 number if it
is the gross if it's the adjusted grow they came up with the term of total positive income which is everything you make and we know that the Biden Administration approach on this would be a killer for Main Street businesses we know that 199a is vital to them and they need to see that in the Trump tax cuts and in That permanence so that we can have that Main Street small business recovery and Revival I appreciate that and I appreciate that President Trump has has nominated you for for treasury secretary because you are sensitive to that
and what your work means to Main Street and to individuals and getting the IRS under control and looking at some of these Provisions that are going to be in front of you so we appreciate that you would Come back a third time and look at public service and that John and Caroline and Cole and by the way they are behaving so beautifully whatever they want they get ice cream Senate orders will we'll be right there to support them I do want to talk with you for a moment about uh cbdcs and some of uh the
push that the Biden administration had they did an executive order for treasury to research development of a cbdc in the United States and of course this causes a lot of us heartburn because we look at what the CCP did with the digital yuan in connection with the Olympics so um upon confirmation how would you approach this discussion of cbdcs and are you for them or against them could you end the Biden Administration project to create cre a us-based cbdc um Senator Blackburn uh thank thank you for your uh remarks um I May have a little
trouble disciplining the two behind me uh as as I'm sure that I will hear that a US senator has vouched for their behavior but uh on cbdcs I I see no reason for the us to have a central bank digital currency in my mind a central bank digital currency is for countries who have no other investment Alternatives so if we think about a reserve manager uh a a high Surplus country whether it's Saudi Arabia the Singapore who ends up With uh call the Chinese currency whatever you want the Yan the R&B yeah if you own
that currency you have to have something to invest in that there's very little to invest in if you want to hold the currency you could own Chinese government bonds which don't yield so your view of that would be a negative view well I I I view that many of these countries are doing it out of necessity whereas the us if you hold US Dollars you could hold a variety of very Secure us assets I I appreciate that I appreciate your comments earlier to Senator baraso about the pillar two negotiations this is something that we would
be well served to extract ourselves uh from this currently the preliminary data that we have 40% right at 40% of the total pillar two tax burden is on us and China of course has found a way to exempt themselves from this so that is in need of a a revisit and I Look forward to you doing that and standing with our com companies I want to get and this I think you can just submit to me in writing uh advanced persistent threat a um which is China they were able to override treasury security system and
remotely access workstations where they reported access to unclassified documents and of course this is Chinese um Chinese Communist party at work again and this is we found this out after Finding out from the treasury Inspector General that 2800 IRS employees still had tick tock on their government devices if confirmed and when confirmed will you take steps to improve treasury security systems Senator Blackburn I actually the one one of the earlier questions was what policies of the current uh treasury secretary do you disagree with and as you noted the hack the December 8th hack into treasury
was via a work from home System so uh I as treasury secretary have confirmed plan to be in the office every day that I'm in Washington DC and I expect all the other employees to do that too and I think it's a matter of national security for everyone to be at 1500 Pennsylvania Avenue thank you that is well received thank you Mr chairman Senator Welch uh thank you thank you very much uh Mr chairman it's delightful to be a new member of the committee and I look Forward to working with you and all our colleagues
Mr Besson thank you so much for your visit yesterday and uh welcome to your family uh as we discussed the situation for a lot of roners who work incredibly hard uh is very tough uh Vermont actually has one of the widest if not the widest gap between what people can earn and what their expenses are so it's tough at the end of the month to pay all the bills the grocery bills the healthc care bills All of these things and we're talking in a way abstractly about this tax uh plan and the reality for most
folks in this country is that for the past 40 years working Americans have actually they had a pay cut not a pay increase and my hope is that whatever tax policy we have is going to start with a commitment to making lives better for the Main Street folks that you mentioned and I'm glad that you did um but there is going to be a lot of Negotiation on how to pay for these tax cuts and one of the things that'll be on the Block is something that's very very important of ver monitors and that's uh
the the affordable tax care credits uh that we have now so in Vermont I mean healthc care is incredibly expensive for everybody but if we have just as an example an electrician in Bennington Vermont who's making $67,000 a year uh with the tax credits That are set to expire uh that family would have a $700 a month increase in their uh healthare bill that that's going to hammer them it's like $99,000 so my question to you is in putting together this tax proposal where you are going to have to be making recommendations about how to
pay for it will we continue to provide this help to vermers like this electrician in Brattleboro so that he doesn't get Hammered on healthc care premiums going well beyond what he can afford uh Senator as we discussed in your office and I haven't had uh time to do my homework on this as I I think I told you that I my family friends Co business colleagues I often get sick of hear hearing my phrase uh no data no opinion so so I I will the get get up to speed the this I appreciate that but
there's a couple of things that really make a difference for working Americans in South Carolina and in Vermont the child's tax credit you know when we had that and reduced poverty for children by 50% that's really Elemental for uh hardworking families uh in the premium support where healthc care is just a brutal expense for employers too by the way so my hope is that in the design we're going to start by making certain that we do no harm to working vermers and working South Carolinians okay uh second on the tariffs um I I'm uh in
Support of the China tariffs uh that is uh defending us against unfair Trade Practices by China uh I'm concerned about the impact of tariffs on Canada and what that does to us in Vermont uh our major business partner is uh export partner is Canada and from what we have seen it would raise cost to businesses probably cost jobs and cost to Consumers so what reassurance can we get from the Trump Administration that there's going to be a Do no harm Policy to American consumers and Vermont workers and small businesses with a tariff policy uh Senator
very very difficult for me to isolate Vermont especially but in terms of working Americans I believe that President Trump uh un understands that it's working America he had a very unique Coalition well he does and I hope the policy will reflect that so and I appreciate the opportunity to work with you on that I look forward to working with you and I I Think he understands that the it's the affordability crisis it is and just the last thing very little time but we were talking about credit card rates for Consumers Credit Card fees for our
small businesses are the highest in the whole world the highest in the whole world why can't we bring them down and pay what Europe pays are small businesses it's like the second or third highest expense for them and you'll have some impact there but those costs on our small Business including those small the pass through businesses I'd like to get them down and get your help in doing that I I look forward to working with you on this issue if confirmed thank you very much thank you thank you Senator Marshall well thank you chairman kpo
raiki member widen it's great to join the finance committee as I listen around it it just seems like to me like so many of us share the same goal that we want Americans to be prosperous we want them to be able to live their American dream we disagree how to get there often times but we all had this same goal that we want Americans to be prosperous um Mr besset welcome and congratulations on your on your nomination as well um I think it could be said that rule America in many ways is President Trump's base
of the 7 7 million people that voted for President Trump a lot of them came from ru America in fact I think I could argue That 90% of rule Americans voted for President Trump and no one has suffered more these last four years than rule America has so my question is may be geared up about that is this economy what can we do to help Main Street to help small businesses and to help rule America now everyone knows that you're a financial wizard that you've been successful on Wall Street but I I just want to
understand your commitment to to small town America you're from a small Town I think you understand agriculture from our conversations and even some background in Community Banks how important are Community Banks to those small towns and what is your commitment to rule America the well Senator Marshall I think I again may be one of the few Tre treasury secretary uh nominees in recent period who uh usually listens to farm Radio on XM on weekends and I can tell you that after the Silicon Valley the Debacle uh that farm radio was intensely focused on the potential
loss of small and Community Banks yes and they are important pillars for those communities so I I think examining in terms of you know what what is the regul what is the supervision that are they being unduly burdened um and that they are not able to help their communities uh what what are the supervisor what what is the supervisory uh edict there and then again as I said earlier too I I Think that China has not made good on their uh a purchases uh for 4 years and if confirmed next week I will would start
pushing for them to uh resume the purchases and then I would uh conference with President Trump on whether he believes that there should be a makeup provision thank thank you I want to stay on rule America and talk about tax credits for a second um 45z is a tax credit and I'm not sure if you're familiar with it or not but it Would really help rule America in the standpoint that we help take uh some of our feed stocks whether it's soybeans or or corn and turn it into biodiesel renewable diesel I think it it's
going to lead to a cleaner air for all of us but it's certainly very important to rule America and just would ask that you would look into it but what we can't do is let it China benefit from it I really think any tax credit we have should not not impact foreign entities And just want to a few background thoughts on on this 45z tax credit from you well as we discussed in your office and gave me a very good uh overview of how the Chinese back door into this program so that that's obviously unacceptable
and um you know I look forward to working with you on the 4 e5z great and then I want to finish up probably here on the Trump tax cuts and how important it is to make them permanent I I don't understand what $4.6 Trillion is but I can tell you that families back in Kansas were able to keep about ,000 dollar a month in their pocket after the Trump tax cuts took effect um and I think that would be going forward so if we lost it if we lost these Trump tax cuts then I would
assume that those same families would be given the federal government another, so this this issue to me is vitally important to rule America to the tune of $1,000 a month so I guess my Question for you is beyond just making the current Trump tax uh Trump tax cuts permanent what else would be on the menu that would help the economy as far as other tax cuts well I I think president Trump has talked about and it's not specifically a rural issue but it it is something that U affects the lower say the lower two quintiles
of the income distribution more uh no tax on tips no tax on social security the no tax on overtime the and uh perhaps making auto Loans uh tax deductible again you know that is would go a long way towards addressing this affordability crisis so that's a great start I hope we can come back and talk about seore tax coming down as well one more time that is permanent as it is but I think there's opportunity there thank you chairman it's an honor to be here Mr chairman one sentence um I very much appreciate our colleague
mentioning 45z the ocean excuse me the clean fuels uh production Tax credit that is part of the clean energy tax credits that we got into law so I look forward to working with you on it thank you so let me just so uh Mr bessent so you understand how we're going here I know it's been a long time and thank you for your patience we have Senator Warren next followed by Senator Scott and then Senator White House and then Senator weiden would like to ask one more question he's he gets the only extra question of
the day and then he And I will probably make a few very brief remarks in wrap up and um we'll be finished at that that point Senator Warren uh thank you Mr chairman and welcome Mr Besson and welcome to your family it's good to see everyone here today so last month president Trump said he supports repealing the debt limit so do I so there we are Donald Trump and Elizabeth Warren are singing from the same Himel Mr bessent let's make it a Trio do you agree with President elect Trump that the debt limit should be
repealed Senator Warren um first of all I I enjoyed our visit in your office and appreciate the fact that when I walked in uh you said let's talk about what we have in common our love of Cape Cod the Red Sox and that addressing the affordability crisis and the housing shortage so um I the the debt limit is a very nuanced Uh convention uh what I would like to do is get back to you and president Trump I'd like to do a survey or Market participants are with this amount of debt uh you know it's
very fragile equilibrium that we sell Bond Bonds in Mr Besson forgive me for just a minute here because this is the question about the I'm not asking you whether or not we ought to increase our debt I'm asking a very different question and that is whether or not we Should have have a a statute in place that says there's a debt limit that if we don't increase the debt limit would cause us to default and that's not an economic analysis in fact Let me let me ask you I understand earlier uh you were citing the
Congressional budget office have you seen the Congressional budget office projections of what would happen if the United States government defaulted on its debt that is if we hit the debt limmit and just kept on going Without raising it or eliminating it yeah look one the United States is not going to default on its St if I'm confirmed but but you know I I will tell you that for people who don't don't understand the the debt limit it might be like taking out your handbrake in your car that you can still hit the brakes but it
it's one less feature and but thought you just said you'd never use it so you're talking about a handbrake that appears to be there but In fact is not connected to a braking system it is literally never used right never I I've never pulled a handbrake going 60 M an hour in my car and the reason for I assume is the enormous cost of a debt default in fact the Congressional budget office that I was asking you about a minute ago said that or Moody estimated that a debt limit breach would cost the US economy
$12 trillion and cost 6 million people their jobs I think this is the reason that President-elect Trump said that eliminating the debt limit is quote the smartest thing Congress could do and I'd like for Congress to do the smartest thing and that is eliminate the debt limits so we don't have this problem well Senator Warren I will tell you that once president Trump takes office and if I'm confirmed if he wants to eliminate the debt limmit I will work with him and you on that great great because I agree with president-elect Trump that the debt
Limit should be repealed I note however right now that's not what congressional Republicans plan to do last month they committed to raising the debt limit by another $1.5 trillion dollar so why do Republicans want to raise the debt ceiling because their plan is to shovel new tax cuts to billion and that would increase the debt by more than a trillion dollars just in the next 4-year period during his first term president Trump's only major legislative Achievement was his 2017 tax cuts that mostly got sucked up by millionaires billionaires and giant corporations now most of these
Cuts were good for only eight years so that Republicans who were designing them could claim that the cost was was only $2 trillion eight years of cuts that added $2 trillion to the debt now we're talking about Republicans and president-elect Trump who want to give those same rich people and giant corporations more years of tax cuts and I just want to be clear that we understand each other here that I think it was Reverend or senator waro who asked you about is there any billionaire Rich enough who you wouldn't support a tax cut for going
forward that I I I think it's unwise to to single out any people any any individual okay is there any group of billionaires you can just pick a dollar figure and there can be more than one above that I I I could give you a GLI Answer but I won't but you know again that that that's not where the money is that that this at at one point when President Obama was debating M Mitt Romney the the the moderator said but sir the that would make collections go down and he said yeah but it's about
fairness and I have to tell you Warren I'm about collection I I understand but I like to think that fairness is about billionaires actually paying their fair Share too thank you Mr chairman thank you Senator Scott thank you Mr chairman Scott welcome or Mr Bess Welcome to our committee good to see you again and thank you for your willingness to serve it is certainly a sacrifice to your you and your family but I think it's actually an investment for the country we need folks who are willing to sacrifice on behalf of a greater cause the
greater cause in this instance is generations of Americans you will likely Never meet but we be better off because we do the right thing one of the things I think about as the right thing I know you grew up in a workingclass family and I grew up in a single parent house so mared and poverty is having stability in our financial system one of the places where we need the greatest amount of stability is for our banks I think about Silicon Valley Bank and other banks that failed recently as you can imagine as the chairman
of the Banking Committee I Care deeply about the stability and strength of our banking system from your Vantage Point can you provide your assessment of the current safety and soundness of the US banking industry and what steps you believe are necessary to ensure long-term stability uh Senator Scott good good to see you good to have two South Carolinians in the room and uh look I I think the the strength of the the US economy our financial markets is the the depth and Breadth the of our financial systems I I believe that we have likely seen
the top five banks become two bigger share of banking assets we have seen because of undue regulation the shadow banking system get larger and larger and to the detriment of Community Banks small Banks and the small Regional Banks so I think that we have to uh take a look at both Regulatory and supervisory uh conditions in those I Think that the banking system is well capitalized perhaps over capitalized and this comes from someone my background is as a financial institutions analyst uh I I've also taught the history of financial crisis so I am very attuned
to the idea that Financial stability is important we the pendulum tends to swing from one way go into overshoot and that from 99 to 2008 that was an overshoot and since then the regulation the our banking system has Been constrained and if we are going to have the kind of the generalized Main Street Prosperity that I would like to see over the next few years it's going to be driven by Community small Banks and small regionals well if I had more time maybe another five or six minutes would' be great I don't I don't think
I'm getting it thank you very much uh I we' spend a little more time on bosel 3 because your answer actually reinforces the fact that Bowel 3 puts more capital on the sidelines which means there's less Capital to to loan for mortgages or for starting small businesses but I won't go there but where I will go however is towards opportunity zones as you know I wrote the legislation and opportunity zones was in fact a bipartison piece of legislation although it's only supported by Republicans and the results of the opportunity zones has been astounding my my
friends who are Mayors Democrat Mayors support it and celebrate it my friends who are Republican Governors support it celebrate it because the fact is simple that $84 billion committed and invested in Opportunity zones have led to real help coming into some distressed communities it's only had less than a 5% gentrification rate which is really important but for the housing question so many folks Mayors around the country said for the first time because of opportunity zones they're seeing Affordable housing in their downtown areas and they haven't seen it John Getty's in Rock Hill three decades so
we know that they've been effective without gentrification I hope that the administration will spend some time uh encouraging and supporting the next iteration of opportunity zones your thoughts quickly uh Senator Scott I I think they have been a resounding success and I I recently read data that in terms of affordable housing the Opportunity zones have created more affordable housing within the zones than any other the government prog federal government program the since opportunity zones were created so I I think that it's a fantastic way to address the housing crisis I think the inner city Redevelopment
I think we could think about opportunity zones more in rural areas so I I look forward to expanding the and continuing the discussion thank you my last thoughts will be a comment Not a question but the as a result of the tcja we saw the richest Americans tax burden as a percent of revenues coming in go up and we saw the poorest Americans as a percent of Revenue coming into the government go down I think the easiest way to say that is to recognize that a single mother like the one who raised me in 2017
made on average $4,000 a year her tax burden her tax percent went down tax rate went down by 71% that is a result of good policy being good politics and I hope we keep our eye on the ball of helping the average American have more of their money in their pockets thank you thank you Senator Scott Senator White House thanks very much chairman uh welcome Mr Besson thank you for the meeting that we had in my office I understand that colleagues have already raised the urgency of more sanctions on Russia's Shadow Fleet particularly as it
is Sabotaging our allies infrastructure in the Baltic um and uh urge that it is unfair for Chinese manufacturers to be able to underprice us manufacturers by virtue of lower environmental standards so I just want to give two big thumbs UPS to both of those Notions um as we talked about in my office I think that the most uh immediate danger of a major uh econom IC collapse is going to come through the insurance industry uh we're seeing signs of it in Florida already The fires in LA are making it worse out in uh California but
it's um occurring Nationwide and as we discussed where you can't get insurance you can't get mortgages where you can't get mortgages you can't sell properties at Value and that Cascades according to the chief Economist of Freddy Mack into a 2008 style massive economic uh recession so um I would like to ask first that you get somebody on your team to take a look at this report which I'd asked to put into the record uh from the Senate budget committee while I was chairing it on the non-renewals price increases and unavailable unavailability problem county by county
across the country and if somebody on your team looks at it and can give you a summary I would be grateful and I would actually ask you personally to read this Economist magazine article I don't think it's complicated no Senator White House you gave it to me in your office and I I Did read it good all right so we're ahead of you so I just want to make sure I will point out to my children behind me doing your homework's important it is important and thank you for doing that I think you're the first
person in a nomination here who's actually done the reading that has been proposed so um I just think that all of us need to be alert to this problem um I think it's actually started Ernest Hemingway famously said that Bankruptcies happen gradually and then suddenly I think we're in gradually on a climate change driven Insurance crisis that will Cascade out into the whole economy um I gave my environment Public Works colleagues a book this thick I gave your team a similar book of all the many highlevel serious peer-reviewed studies that have shown these economic risks
and I just don't think we're ready for it and I think it's really important that we be ready for it and I don't want Anybody to say that they weren't warned about it so there's my warning uh last question to you and I'm going to be treading into an area where I don't know a thing because I just heard about this this morning and I've been the ranking member in the epw Noms hearing so um what I did read this morning is that the manner in which you have structured your partnership has enabled you to
avoid the payment of nearly a million dollars in Medicare Taxes and that the IRS has taken the position that the manner in which you structured your partnership to avoid those Medicare taxes does not actually support avoiding Medicare taxes and um it's probably more complicated of an issue than you and I are going to get through in the next 1 minute and 13 seconds um so we'll follow up with a question for the record but I just think that when we're dealing with these Massive issues of income inequality and threats to Medicare and all of the
concerns that I think actually helped Propel president Trump to the presidency it would be extremely awkward if the secretary that treasury we're taking advantage of a supposed avoidance mechanism that the IRS which you oversee has determined actually doesn't produce that result and somehow those things need to come into alignment I Don't know why I suppose the easiest thing would be to go back and pay the Medicare taxes um but again this is way more complicated than you and I can dispose of in the next half minute um but I do think it's important I think
it's really important sent a message as an incoming treasury secretary that everything you do with respect to your personal taxes aligns with IRS guidance Senator white thank you for the question uh so it Is my the have firms taxes and we are up to date on all our taxes uh this matter is in not by us but it it is in continuing litigation uh if confirmed I have agreed to shutter my firm and I have also the informed the ranking member the and the chairman that I will provision uh the amount that is lower than
the amount that was stated in the press release that went out last night and I will hold that the until the the final till the case makes its way Through the courts so once that seems like a an attentive response to the problem and I'm glad you resp that this actually is a problem that needs to be attended to so thank you thank you and and Senator ween has asked if he could add one final question and you get the last one Senator ween thank thank you Mr chairman and uh I I gather that after
this at some point you and I will have H some closers I appreciate that and I'm going to be very short on that as well Um Mr bessent I want to ask about the double standard with respect to tax enforcement in a America the working person a firefighter or a nurse or somebody who works for a wage pays taxes with every single paycheck and the government gets that information and to a great extent the ultra wealthy can have a very different system they can bring in this whole battery of accountants and lawyers and the like
and say you know make sure that I don't have a lot of income this year and then they don't have the same reporting uh system and what I have always felt is that ensuring that the government the IRS can do tax enforcement to prevent wealthy tax cheating is absolutely crucial to limiting this double standard with respect to enforcement where we have all this information from people who are working for a wage and you're trying to figure out what's Actually going on with lots of wealthy people because to me the scam is in what's legal I
want it understood that I'm talking about people using their accountants and lawyers and this battery of people so my question to you is do you believe that it makes sense for the Congress to give the IRS the resources to collect taxes from people who may be cheating and we don't even know no because it's so hard to run down all this information do you believe it's Important for the Congress to fund the IRS for that kind of inforcement uh Senator weiden I I I believe that collections are very important uh and I believe that the
IRS and again U I haven't been confirmed I have had no meetings this is all external I I I believe that a large amount of it can be solved uh by data processing and we are on the verge of an AI Revolution and I would hope that the AI Revolution the M much As it has in medical technology you know its pattern recognition and that you know my understanding now is that the agency runs in 12 different systems on cobal which is the programming language that when I went to Y in 1980 so I am
100% in favor the of that of updating those systems so um you talked to me about this in the office and I appreciated the the comments it's still resources it's going to be computers perhaps not people But I showed up in the United States Senate when only one person Pat Ley knew how to use a computer and so we've seen the these dramatic developments and I think you're right AI is going to shape the debate but it still leaves the question we're going to need resources and again what you've seen because we don't have the
resources to go after the wealthy tax cheats people who use the earned income tax credit or something they're the ones you know who get the Audits and the like and I I want to see in this position somebody make a commitment to making sure we'll have the resources to go after the wealthy tax cheats who have this unique kind of system and I would acknowledge your point that um certainly it's going to be a challenge in the years ahead with respect to Ai and other Technologies but we're still going to need resources are you going
to support that uh I if if confirmed I will come back to You with with a plan for upping collections on Wealthy tax cheets uh well for you seem to believe that the wealthy cheat more but that I think across the entire income Spectrum so you you you were saying that the wealthy have this special cache and you know if if there is some large the mother load there than to figure out how to crack that whether it's through AI the or some other means that I will commit to coming back to you well let
me Tell you why it's so important important former IRS commissioner redig who is president Al president elect Trump's last IRS commissioner testified here that the IRS needed additional multi-year funding because it was quote outgunned when it came to auditing wealthy individuals and large corporations so the view that I have stated today is not just one that I offer but a former Trump appointe said specifically that the agency was Outgunned with respect to resources so you've indicated that you'll continue the discussion it's an important one thank you Mr chairman good well thank you and why don't
you go ahead with any closing remarks you'd like to make right now and then I will wrap it up I'm going to spare spare everybody and especially the nominee of filibuster it's been a long uh U morning and uh Mr bessent we started off with your confirming that you're going to protect taxpayers Ability to file their taxes for free directly with the uh IRS I think that's constructive because I think when it works for a second straight year we're going to begin to join join the rest of the western industrialized world and making sure that
our our people have a chance to uh have a system that works for them that empowers them if they choose it um with respect to some other issues uh I'm concerned about a number of other matters and we may need to have Some additional um conversations about it what concerned me was your response to my question about um uh wealth rather than work with respect to being uh favored in the tax code and I think today that's a reality that's just plain fact and the people I represent know it because they pay taxes with all
their paychecks and they're paying a higher rate than people who as I've you know indicated today have good lawyers and and good accountants so I Continue to be very troubled you know by that and some of the past reforms have tried to minimize those differences between tax rates for wealthy people and tax rates for workers but uh I remain concerned uh about that and um with respect to some of the um other issues I leave you with the proposition that I haven't really heard you touch on and it's the proposition that Bill Bradley and I
have believed in low these many years is we want a tax code that Gives everybody in America the chance to get ahead and with differences like the one I've asked about the difference between the rates for the wealthy and um and for workers there's a long way to go to get it done so I'll look forward to continuing some conversations thank you Mr chairman thank you Senator ween and uh Mr bessent we're toward the very end here I'll be brief myself uh I want to end where I started out I think that It's it's very
clear that you have acted in your dealing with the vetting of this Committee in a very very straightforward courteous and honorable way uh when it comes to your qualifications to be the next Secretary of the Treasury there is no room for debate and you have shown that today here in the hearing your background your training everything is Tailor Made for This role and your character and demeanor are self-evident you have Satisfied our due diligence process in Prior congresses I've joined with many of my Republican colleagues in voting for well-qualified treasury secretary candidates put forward by
a Democratic president even though I didn't agree with all of the positions that they advocated your candidacy ought to enjoy similar support and I'm going to encourage my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to join with me in advancing Your nomination um I appreciate you're taking the time the time that you have taken to work with us over the past few weeks to get this process to this point and with that I would like to remind my colleagues that the deadline for submitting any questions for the record is 5:00 p.m. today and without anything
else this hearing stands adjourned
