Reform, R*pe Gangs and the Rot of the UK | Matthew Goodwin | EP 521

What we've been living through is an Elite Class imposing policies on everybody else the consequences of which they are not going to have to endure a trillion cost Net Zero plan was passed through Westminster with 20 minutes of debate Mass uncontrolled immigration has fundamentally weakened Great Britain Boris Johnson did the opposite of what he promised voters he would do do you want to just describe what you see as The reality of the rape gang situation in the UK everyone around the world has heard of George Floyd nobody's heard those names these are girls who were

murdered when they were 12 13 14 years of age not a single police officer social worker Council official Member of Parliament has had any serious consequences for turning a blind eye to this I don't even know how to conceptualize this and remain out of the domain of radical conspiracy [Music] theory hello everybody I was pleased to sit down today with Dr Matthew Goodwin uh Dr Goodwin was a professor of political science in the UK but he's turned his attention in recent years to um to developing a more public presence on the political front he didn't

really believe that it was appropriate for him to be engaging in political action as a professor but he also got let's say sick and tired of working for the Increasingly woke University and so we started our conversation with a discussion of the pathologies of modern Academia and tried to analyze exactly why the institutions had become so hidebound and ideologic rigid and punitive and also investigated whether there was anything that might be done about that apart from say making new institutions I can't say we came to a particularly optimistic conclusion then we turned our attention to

the unit Party in the UK the strange co-option let's say of both the conservative and the labor party into this woke utopian green idealism that characterizes so much of modern politicking and talked through as well the rise of the Reform Party in the UK as an antidote to the top- down elitism let's say the destructive top- down de-industrialization elitism that characterizes the political the Attitudes of the political class in the UK we also discussed the relationship between the policies and philosophies of this new emergent Reform Party we compared and contrasted them with the political attitude

that's emerged in the United States under Trump collaborating let's say with ELO and musk and the rest of the Trump Avengers and as well the alliance for responsible citizenship which is a group that I helped found in the UK that was designed to produce a Philosophical equ a philosophical alternative to the machinations let's say of the WF Davos and un crowd so join us for that Matt maybe you could start by letting um the viewers and listeners especially those who aren't in the UK know who you are yeah sure well I uh I'm a recovering

academic I was a professor of political science for uh what since 2015 I was a University academic for 20 years and over the last year I've basically moved more into the public Debate into Political campaigning uh having left the universities uh but in terms of my background I've also worked uh I've been sued to government departments um I've advised various Prime Ministers and presidents here in Europe about political issues but now to be frank I've become so concerned about the state of my country that I've entered the public debate in a much more political way

okay well let's start with your University background then um what university were you at last uh I was at the University of Kent having previously gone through the universities of B Nottingham and Manchester here in the UK okay and so what was it that apart from the Dismal state of your country let's say which I think you share with my Home Country Canada um what was it about Academia and maybe even more specifically about your soier and as a professor as in political science that Disenchanted you with Academia I think essentially what I saw over

the last 20 years was higher education in this country much like in North America completely lose its way uh it increasingly lost touch with the original Mission of higher education the universities I was working at were no longer really interested in the pursuit of Truth in good faith debate in scientific knowledge and evidence especially in the Social sciences I know that you've spoken on this show to my good friend Eric kofman uh who has experienced the same here in the UK uh and to be frank uh Jo and I just got sick of it and

I decided you know life is short I wanted to try and do something about what's happening in uh in not just the UK but in the west today and my University ran into financial problems and I decided this was a great moment to exit and try and have an impact on the wider Conversation and that's what I'm doing and that's why I'm with you here today okay so let's delve into the details both practical and personal with regards to the universities because you know now it's been a while since I've been actively involved with the

university it's really been since 2017 and you know I now and then have this sense that maybe I'm exaggerating the uh the catastrophe that that the universities have become because I was involved in it So deeply personally so let me review for a minute what I see as the major problems um and maybe you could expand on that I'd like to know as well what you experience personally okay so the first thing that happened to me I would say around 2013 or so was that I noticed that my graduate students particularly the females were starting

to get nervous about lecturing about gender differences in personality and that actually turned out to be a big problem for my lab Because I'm a personality psychologist and one of the things we do is look at sex differences in personality and then I noticed I was starting to get nervous about that and that really set me back on my heels um because I was never nervous about anything that I lectured about particularly because I tried to base what I lectured about on what I knew what I learned what I had investigated it was pursuit of

the truth as far as I was concerned and I Was uh apprenticed in a lab where truth mattered and then well and then things got worse theep Pei people moved in and the administration ballooned out of control and uh University tuition prices continue to expand in in expense and the research boards which I always had a trouble with all the way back to the 1980s they became impossible to deal with so that while I had ramped up my ability to do Research I would say I probably improved my speed at doing research by a factor

of 50 given in computational technology I was doing research more and more slowly because it was took forever to get through the research ethics boards which had nothing to do with research ethics as far as I was concerned and then and and then there was the overwhelming tilt the radical left okay so that's my Spiel and so it became dis uh motivating unmotivating to continue So tell me what your experience was as a professor as a lecturer and a researcher well I think in many ways Jordan our stories are somewhat similar within higher education you

know if you look at the UK you know the stat that I always remind people is back in the 1960s for every one conservative academic there were three academics on the left today for every one conservative classical liberal academic there are 10 academics on the left today if you look at the Rigorous surveys of how faculty has changed uh over the last half Century or so and so within that what you've seen you know as I'm sure many people in North America uh will also uh relate to you've seen the rapid expansion of the University

bureaucracy the politicization of the University bureaucracy which for an academic like me found its expression in having to do things like mandatory diversity statements whereby every time I went for A research Grant every time I went for a job I had to swear Allegiance essentially to the diversity Equity equity and inclusion agenda I had to uh decolonize my University reading list but more than that Jordan to be frank I was sick and tired of watching many of my colleagues good people uh Kathleen stock Noah Carl Eric cman among others being harassed bullied intimidated and chased

off campus because they were saying entirely legitimate reasonable Things that happened to violate this Orthodoxy on campus and I felt sorry for my students I felt sorry for their parents who were paying for this education and it was particularly for me actually it was the experience of going through the brexit referendum okay I mean just to paint a brief picture prior to 2016 with the votes for brexit and Trump I was by all you know metrics a very successful academic I was one of the youngest professors in the UK I had No problem getting research

grants I attracted a lot of money from the research councils I published it for Oxford University press Cambridge University press I published in the most prestigious academic journals and this was part of what I would call the the BB era in my career before brexit now when 52% of Voters decided they wanted to leave the European Union and I publicly uh expressed you know my acceptance of that I didn't campaign for Brexit but I said well if 52% of people want to leave okay let's you know leave the European Union and I wrote some some

op heads saying perhaps how Britain could take ad vage of this well everything in my career after that changed I mean I I can only describe it as being something similar to what I experienced when I was at high school being bullied uh by kids in a in a in a boy School notoriously difficult environments but um academics really did Launch a sustained campaign of harassment and intimidation I was taken off research Council peer bodies I struggled to publish uh my suddenly my research Grant applications were rejected so you know this isn't the sort of

complaint of an academic that never had these things I just noticed such a tangible shift and after a while you know you have to look yourself in the mirror and you have to ask yourself do I want to spend the rest of my life doing This because I was becoming very depressed I wasn't particularly Pleasant to be around you know it wasn't nice environment I have a family friends people were saying you know what's going on what what's the matter and I just said you know this is this is crazy I don't want to spend

the rest of my life like this and I I looked at what was happening at the University of Austin I looked at what was happening at the University of Buckingham here in the UK I looked at things like you know you've got the the Peterson Academy I said well here are parallel structures parallel institutions okay so that's important we should be supporting that but I also started to campaign for something called the higher education Free Speech act here in the UK which was the first the first piece of legislation that created a legal Duty on

universities here in the UK to protect and promote free speech and academic Freedom on campus and thankfully that was that was passed although the current labor government is now defanging that that law and we can come on and talk about that but I but I decided basically I wanted to do something about the state of my country and the state of the West and to be honest I concluded that I could really do that while remaining a university Professor I do believe in the importance of neutrality of objectivity you know I don't think University Professors

should be politically active to the degree that I want to become politically active and so I made a decision I said okay I'm going to walk away from this after 20 years and I'm going to actually try and Enter The Wider public debate and try and give people a voice okay well two two observations about what you just said the first is um what was I think it was Ernest Hemingway who famously one of his characters when Asked how he went bankrupt famously said gradually then suddenly and I've watched institutions large institutions including corporations devolve

and die and it happens gradually then suddenly and I think it I think this is how Psychopathology develops in people too you you hit a point where a POS feedback loop of some sort develops and you you kind of pointed to that I think so you imagine that as the number of radical leftwing professors increases the cost Of not being one of them increases and then it increases to the point where anyone who isn't someone like that who has options leaves because they can and then the people who are left are either incompetent and can't

leave or are the radicals themselves well this happens in companies all the time if a company has a bad quarter or two often the 10% of people who are hyperproductive leave because they can and then the company's in Desperate Straits almost immediately Even though it may still have most of its employees okay so there's that and then the other comment I would make that's that's horrible really it's a horrible observation is that I mean are we really at the place where the institutions of higher education that we're supposed to function not only to educate young

people but also to act to some degree as intellectual stewards of the political economic social and psychological Environments let's say they've abdicated their responsibility they've become they become so irresponsible and so corrupt that they actually can't do that anymore like one of the things I've been wondering I I've been contemplating the reality of the rot at universities and one of the things you have to ask yourself when many large institutions of the same type rot all at the same time you have to ask yourself Whether or not the reason that they're rotting the the simplest

reason that they're rotting is because they're dead they're actually dead and they're not savable and and I kind of think that might be the case I because I've I've tried to Think Through how you could save them but you can imagine here's the situation they're way too expensive they're way too centralized they're way too dependent on government money they're way too radical in their Thinking there's far too many administrators and me well and that's enough that's like six that's like six terrible problems and my experience watching large organizations fail is that if they have two

major problems they're they're done and I think Academia has six and I can't even I can't even hypothesize how well and then he adds this one final observation would be the younger the professor given Everything we've said The more likely they are to be radical in their orientation and that means the longer they're tenure as tenur professors before this scales might be rebalanced and so I can't even I okay so I'm you you left and you started acting in a more political way and said you had some personal reasons for that including the fact that

you didn't think you should be a political actor as a as a professor but do you see like I can't Imagine that you're happy to see the demise of these great institutions I mean if we lose Oxford and Cambridge for example that's a complete bloody catastrophe but do you look I I I think they're gone I really think they're gone and I've had this debate with many friends and colleagues of mine um much you know much more successful academics than me I mean you know people I really respect historian Neil Ferguson Among others and you

know the way they talk about Academia in the 80s and '90s um is something I don't personally recognize from from my experience I think I think the universities the Legacy universities Jordan are gone donors constantly say to me well I'm going to buy um you know or invest in an Oxford College and I'm going to reform it well you and I both know you and I both know is disillusioned uh academics that the moment that collides with the Reality of the ecosystem of higher education the ethics committees the research councils the bureaucracy you and I

both know what will happen any attempt to reform the Legacy universities will get tied up immediately in paperwork and ideological motivations that's what's going to happen yeah well and it you know we we also didn't uh add to the panoply of s the fact that the research journals themselves have been captured and Corrupted academics have to pay to publish in them they have libraries over the barrel they charge them an arm and leg uh completely inappropriately and they put everything that researchers write behind the pay wall and then it takes two years to publish like

this is that's insane in in in a world where you can write something and publish it to an international audience in one day the fact that it takes two years to publish a peer-reviewed article means that You're stuck in like 1830 if that it's terrible well absolutely but there are also ideological scams and that's that's when I became very disillusioned I watched the grievance studies hoax play out whereby you know clearly fraudulent papers were were submitted to Social Justice journals and then revealed to have been uh authored by um you know Peter Bogi uh Helen

PLU and James Lindsay I watched the Michael lur uh Scandal whereby a Researcher had claimed that a randomized control trial uh involving um gay canvases talking to voters face Toof face made them more supportive of uh same-sex marriage it turned out he had fabricated his data but that was accepted without question by the most prestigious journals uh in Academia I saw the Roland frier scandal at Harvard you know the the the the nightmare that he had to go through to publish uh a finding that challenged the Orthodoxy on Campus in that case that African-Americans were

not uh more likely to be uh to be killed by police and I was just watching one one scandal after another and just realizing you know the whole thing is rotten you know the industry that the the the sector that I'm working in it it it it's just it needs root and Branch reform so I left and I think in many ways for me The Universities at least in the UK are really a symbol of a much deeper rot That is set in has set in uh into our culture uh and into our civilization the

institutions the public sector taxpayer funded institutions have become politicized they've become deeply corrupt they've become utterly disconnected from uh the vast majority of ordinary uh people in this country and they've been imposing top down a political agenda on everybody else that is really supported by only about 10 to 15% of radical progressives within Western populations and and that is what I've seen not just in in universities but within government departments uh within Westminster um you know within the civil service within the federal state bureaucracy uh and you know I think people are sick of it

I think they can see this for what it is which is political indoctrination okay so yeah well the uh we have a new leader who will likely be the next prime minister in Canada if he Takes over the liberal party which is the kind of classic ruling Party of Canada Mark Mark Carney who was the governor of the bank of England and I just read his book values which is a very bad book in from the perspective of of literary quality let's say for a variety of reasons but worse than that it's like Trudeau our

current prime minister has been a wef follower for I don't know the last 15 years let's say but he didn't have the originality or The ability to come up with the ideas or really to implement them all that effectively although he's pretty much crippled canadi Canada's economy but Mark Carney he's like a WF leader and there's every probability that he'll be prime minister at least for for an interim period and maybe longer than that and so and then I've I've been to the UK many times and have great admiration for that country for your country

it's a it it's a terrible thing To see it decay and slip away and and um it's it's it's terrible to watch for example you people contend with Energy prices that are literally five times more than they need to be at least five times Mark Carney said for example that 85% of fossil fuel stores across the world have to be kept in the ground and at the same time he promises the Dennis of my home Province Alberta which is oil rich that somehow magically they'll all be supplied with Green economy jobs whatever the hell they

are to replace the fossil fuel jobs that you know actually exist and so and I don't know I mean My Country Canada has has gone down the insane woke Rabbit Hole like the universities but I think your country at least at the moment under the labor government is even ah maybe you guys are worse which is a hell of a contest to win so so let's expect on that yeah go well look I think it's just important for people who are not in The UK but have been asking asking us britz the same question you

know what the hell is happening to the UK right that's a question I get from many Americans Canadians and others and the answer is that we are living through the effects of a political project that was embraced by both the established left and right by the uni party that was really United by a set of policies that voters are now beginning to reject Net Zero uh Mass uncontrolled immigration Much of it from outside of uh Europe uh the imposition of radical woke progressivism within public sector institutions doubling down on a london-based economy we we don't

really produce anything anymore we're closing factories across Northern England we're closing steel factories in the name of uh Net Zero uh and climate change and a broken model of multiculturalism that most recently found its expression in the rape gang Scandal across more than 50 towns in the country now many voters over the last 30 years have gradually looked at this Elite consensus um shared by the established left and right and they said you know we've had enough we want a different politics uh we want a different kind of culture and that is why I actually

think you're beginning to see now uh what America saw in 2015 2016 you know we're beginning to see radical political change in this country as I'm talking to you now in in early Mid-February uh 2025 you know in the National polls Nigel farage and the Reform Party are now number one labor and the conservatives are now trailing this disrupted party similar to the Canadian Reform Party in the early 1990s we're beginning to see a serious push back from voters who have had enough of this uh and and in Europe too Jordan you will know in

Germany Austria Sweden you know we are I think beginning to see a sustained uh public Le push back to the Policies that have dominated Western democracies for the last uh 30 to 50 years are you ready for a fresh start after the holiday Indulgence make 2025 your healthiest year yet with balance of nature those Christmas cookies and holiday feasts were great but now your body's craving something different that's where balance of nature comes in the perfect way to reset your health this New Year getting your daily fruits and vegetables has never been easier Balance of

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Spice that's balanceof nature.com promo code Jordan for 35% off balance of nature promo code Jordan for 35% off your first preferred order plus a free bottle of fiber and spice so let's talk about Net Zero in the UK for a moment I just interviewed kemy badok who's the new leader of the conservative party in in uh in the UK For everybody who's watching and listening um and she noted her init her resistance to Net Zero when it was initially formulated but she also pointed out and I just I don't even know how to conceptualize this

and and and remain out of the domain of radical conspiracy theory you know she pointed out kind of like Kier starmer when he talked about the fact that this experiment Mass migration was something that was perpetrated from the top down Consciously and that everyone who opposed it was gas lit and that was also conscious and oops were sorry about that but bedno bad said that that something approximating a trillion doll cost Net Zero plan was passed through Westminster with 20 minutes of debate it's like so I just don't know how to conceptualize this it's like

first of all what were the conservatives thinking like what was their what was their motivation was was it merely that they were trying to look Like planetary saviors into to Virtue signal despite the fact that they were conservatives or like how do you want or was it the fact that like Kier starmer they were completely enamored of the Davos WF crowd which they regarded as like somehow more stylish than you know the mere plotting pedestrians in the parliament well you're answering your own questions in a way Jordan because the answer is they're not conservatives what

has happened to the conservative Party one of the oldest most successful parties in the history of democracy is that it has completely abandoned its ideological Roots it's become a liberal party the vast majority of MPS in Parliament uh conservative MPS are essentially liberal MPS they are the ones that put Mass immigration on steroids they are the ones that put Net Zero on steroids they are the ones that put gender ideology on steroids and KY badok is claiming that she is the party Has learned its lessons that she's going to change direction but in reality because

of the structure of the conservative parliamentary party because it is dominated from top to bottom by liberals even if K bad not believes in what she's saying she knows deep down she will not be able to fundamentally change the direction of travel so what I think we need is a bit like what America uh has witnessed over the last 10 years which is a complete replacement of not Just the Tory party but the dominant establishment in this country which is clinging to a consensus that is fundamentally out of touch with what voters want I mean

Mass immigration give you I'll give you one example Jordan you know we can come back and talk a little bit about Net Zero but to me mass uncontrolled immigration has fundamentally weakened Britain Great Britain it has undermined our prosperity it has divided our society nobody ever Voted for it Boris Johnson did the opposite of what he promised voters he would do when he was elected in 2019 he said he'd lower immigration he put it on steroids 86% of all migration into Britain is now coming from outside Europe from what I would argue are culturally incompatible

uh Nations they're more impoverished Nations uh and the evidence that we now have from various government bodies that are now finally admitting uh That actually this is a net fiscal cost to the UK taxpayer before you get to things like the rape gangs before you get to things like islamist terrorism before you get to things like sectarianism uh on the streets of Britain that we've seen since the 7th of October just at an economic level this doesn't make any sense whatsoever yet it was imposed on Everybody by by both the established left and the established

right so my theory of British politics Here is that the voter backlash to mass immigration is going to be the new brexit this is going to a major fault line in our politics and the Tories the status cons conscious Tories and and you're right Jordan because they are more interested in winning social status from London liberals from the luxury belief class from what Rob Henderson and others have talked about they are more interested in ACR social status from the London bubble than they are at saving This country and that is a reality about the Tory

party they've completely sold this country down the river in fact one one minor example that I think will give International viewers a real sense of what I would argue is a betrayal it was the conservative party under Boris Johnson when it was in office that even removed a requirement for companies in Britain to advertise jobs in Britain before they advertised them overseas they didn't even prioritize British Workers uh within this National economy they just completely opened uh the floodgates and the end result is what you see around us today which is zero growth massive amounts

of debt no productivity declining GDP per capita while we're also pursuing this Net Zero Madness closing steel factories across Northern England in order to deal with this political vanity project for an elite class that doesn't apparently seem to care about anybody else in this Country so I'm deeply worried about the direction of travel but the Tory party is not going to change the direction of travel you know if if if an architect demolished your house you wouldn't invite the architect back to to to do it again would you and I think in the same way

you know it was the Tories that really demolished Britain so why on Earth would you invite them back to have another go I think we need wholesale political change okay so Let's see if we can get to the bottom of things here a little bit me you're outlining a scenario where both the right-wing party the conservatives uh Centrist right party and and all the other parties were taken over by the same Progressive mob let's say that took over the universities it's something like that and so the distinctions between the parties start to become irrelevant but

then we have to ask ourselves what are the motivations of The people who who orchestrated and participated or at least and or at least didn't oppose the Takeover so let me lay out a couple of theories and you you I'm going to go a little astray here but but I really do want to get to the bottom of this you know because I'm trying to figure out what the fundamental error is we see it let's say it's this the same error manifests itself in virtue signaling on the environmental side with regards to n zero and

virtue signaling On the Multicultural liberal tolerant side with regards to mass immigration and so underneath that there's this claim of tolerant moral virtue that requires no effort personally and that requires other people to make the sacrifices okay so let me let me lay a structure underneath that and you and I'd like to know what you think about this so I've been investigating um classic religious stories in the Old Testament and the new and I've I I found An interesting parallel about about a class of sin you might say in both of those sources Old Testament

New Testament sources so one of the Ten Commandments is to not use God God's name in vain and you see people think that means don't curse that's the popularized idea but that isn't what it means it means don't claim to be motivated by Divine Purpose so to use God's name when you're Actually pursuing your own selfish agenda right so don't subvert the Divine to your own ego your own motivation your own status because status is very important to people right it's a fundamental psychological motivator and Status determines longevity for example and Status determines mating attractiveness

among men uh socioeconomic status it's a okay so you can subvert that process by falsely claiming moral virtue now the Same thing happens in the New Testament because the Pharisees that who are Christ's primary enemies are the virtue signalers mean Christ tells the Pharisees Who are the leaders of uh popular religious movement uh Tradition at that time that the only reason they Proclaim their allegiance to God and the prophets they purport to worship is so that they can have the best seats in the synagogues and ACU social status and he Compares them to tombs that

are Whitewashed on the outside and full of rot on the inside and it's actually that accusation that's one of the primary reasons that he ends up crucifying so the reason I'm the reason I'm I'm telling you this it might seem a bit obscure but the reason that I'm bringing this up is because I don't think that we've come to grips with how powerful the temptation to ACR moral status falsely so that's reputational status How Deeply seated And absolutely destructive that is and like absent a better explanation and and Rob Henderson of course you who you

pointed has touched on this with his idea of of uh what's what's the name of his luxury belief class luxury sure luxury belief class look how good I am right and so so first of all I'm kind of curious about what you think of those ideas then I'm curious about whether you have any alternative explanation for this because It's a systemic rot right we talked about the universities we already decided for what that's worth between us that they don't look salvageable but you really extended that argument to the to the political parties themselves with the

possible exception of Reform which we can we can talk about in a moment so like where do you two things what would have how you would have you characterized your political orientation prior to your Departure from the universities let's say and then and then what do you think of what's your explanation for the pervasiveness of this rot well I I think the and the answer to the first question is I I would describe myself as I mean it sounds very vague but as somebody who who simply cares a great deal about his country and somebody

who is in very broad terms on the side of of the Forgotten majority of people who share small C conservative values particularly On cultural and identity issues who want to reform the economy so it works for ordinary people but feel that they're no longer really in the conversation and I I don't feel as though my politics have changed over the last 20 years what I think has happened is that we have been living through over the last 10 years the greatest radicalization of the elite class in Western societies since the 1960s and I I've seen

this not just in terms of the universities but actually In Westminster and I think the answer to your second question is to go back again to this idea of the luxury belief class what we've been living through is an Elite Class imposing policies on everybody else the consequences of which they are not going to have to endure and I think you can see that in everything from Mass migration which across Europe the evidence now is overwhelming serious academics people like Professor Yan vanand Deek has shown This the influx of low skill low wage migration from

the Middle East and Africa is a net fiscal cost to European economies right if you looked at it simply through the lens of a cost benefit analysis you would simply say this makes no sense we've got to radically change the way we're dealing with migration yet still the Elite Class won't change it so obviously this is about the AC crew social status for themselves but there's Something else going on here too which is the enforcement of these taboos within our conversation around migration around you know what John mwater and others would call the new religion

the sacred values that we cannot question pronet zero PR migration pro- diversity in all of its forms and that's exactly why for example Jordan we didn't get to the bottom of the rape gangs crisis because it was people's fears within the elite Institution of being seen to Be um racist being seen to be conservative being seen to be islamophobic or whatever word you want to whatever term you want to choose which stop people from getting to the truth so the imposition of these taboos the imposition of of these social norms of trying to tightly control

the national conversation through hate laws through these orwellian things we have in the UK called non-crime hate incidents which which again are are sort Of police measures that designed to stifle debate and discussion all of this I think is about controlling the supply of information stigmatizing alternative opposition to the elite project uh and trying to use these taboos to basically impose this Elite project from above and The Losers of course are ordinary people who are asking themselves questions like well well why are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of young white workingclass girls

being raped in Great Britain and nobody talked about it for 30 years like that's a question a lot of people in this country are asking why why did why didn't they might why didn't the Legacy Media do anything about this you know and and and by the way a Legacy Media in this country that is now complaining about Elon Musk talking about it whereas the reality is if Legacy Media had been doing its job by actually pursuing truth and taking the rumors seriously from the 1980s about girls being put on heroin and cocaine and alcohol

and being gang raped in Northern towns across this country and being trafficked from one town to the next if if journalists had taken that seriously we wouldn't have had according to one MP she estimates perhaps up to a million children from the 1980s have have been abused to some extent by these gangs and and the enforcement of these tabos is going on today which which is what makes it so Remarkable even after the rape gang Scandal we've got a labor prime minister K stama who's now come out and said well if you want to discuss

the rape gangs if you want to ask questions about the rape gangs I'm not going to give you a national inquiry into this issue but also and I quote directly you are jumping on the far right bandwagon if you're talking about this issue so again it's an attempt to control the conversation to suppress descent to Suppress opposition uh and ultimately I think it is it's partly about individual social status but it is also about maintaining and and protecting this this ideological project I think fundamentally that's what it's about hello everybody I want to tell you

about Peterson Academy so as I watched the universities deteriorate and become inexcusably ideologically rigid over the years I started thinking about what might be done to address that we have The technology at hand now to film the best lectures On Any Given Topic at every university around the world and to bring the results of that filming and distribution to a wide audience at a very low cost and we also have the ability to do that with the best possible production quality and so I started working with my daughter and her team on Peterson Academy a

number of years ago and we launched in August we have about 40 courses on our platform Now we're producing for a month and I think I can say without hesitation that they are the best courses that you can obtain on topics associated with higher education anywhere and they're beautifully filmed and produced there's a very inviting and welcoming social media element to Peterson Academy and it's all available at an eminently reasonable price we set out to produce the best education platform in the world and I think we managed that go to Peterson Academy and gain access

to the kind of education that was once reserved at the best institutions for the most elite and privileged of students and change your life in consequence okay okay so so it's about protecting the pretentious claims to unearned moral status of the elite but then we might ask ourselves do you have any sense of why it was the progressive ideas so to speak that merged to dominate The Universities like I I can't Quite I can't put those two things together is it that the is it that Progressive is it that what Progressive ideas actually do as

Rob Henderson say might indicate is that is prog is the progressive ideology nothing but the proclivity of the privileged Elite to cover themselves in unearned moral glory and is is the Temptation so profound that that's the natural course of things like cuz you might say well why wasn't the Progressive Movement working class You know or why was the elite movement towards moral uh status uh virtue signaling why did that take this leftist twist and I can't quite put those things together and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about that well I think over the

last 50 years my my view is that the nature of status fundamentally changed it moved away from wealth and resource into the realm of ideology and belief and that became a key indicator for the Elite Class to a crew status to say actually it's not just that it's not just that I've got a butler I've got a house I've got wealth I've got money it's that you know I know the vocabulary of radical progressivism I know uh what white privilege means and I you know I know what white guilt means and I'm going to you

know latch on to this sacred religion and ensure other people have to have to you know hear the word and do the work I think I think I think that's Part of it but I think also okay so yeah well okay so let's imagine okay okay that's a good hypothesis so let's imagine this let's say look when I was at Harvard in the 90s I taught there in the 90s that place was firing in all cylinders and that was the same at McGill when I trained there as a clinical psychologist I really like being at

Mill we we I had excellent compatriots there and the the education I received by large was extremely high Quality especially on the research side and then when I went to Boston and taught at Harvard I thought the undergraduates were great I had excellent graduate students the administrators served the faculty particularly the senior faculty the senior faculty were the smartest and most well-informed people I'd ever met by a lot and everyone was devoted to their work to the point where we had very short faculty meetings because Everyone wanted to get back to their lab it was

really good okay so now imagine that we had a period of time after World War II where the the elite universities the high quality universities really were high quality they were merit-based in high quality and they set up a reputation system that was valid okay now imagine that the cluster B Psychopaths and the narcissists and the histrionic anti- Merit types invaded those institutions that that had Developed this new currency of status that you referred to which would be educational uh accreditation but it was valid well now you can game it now you can game it

because it's been established and I I I really see that this happened at Harvard for example with with the promotion for example of gay to the position of President it's like what the hell was going on with that she didn't have the academic Credentials to be hired at a second rate um at at a at a in as a professor in the second rate department so okay so imagine that the universities built up a a reputation a a a real they were really markers of credibility and then the system got gamed maybe that's the right

explanation now you could place go ahead go ahead yeah just just something on that I think something else happened too though and ultimately you know it depends on whether you view the radical Progressive takeover which I personally think has peaked I think it's now on the it's in Retreat I think you know Trump has got you know the woke ideology whatever your favorite term I think it's on the back foot but if you if you ask yourself why did it emerge I think you know there are those who say it is a a kind of

radicalization of you know cultural Marxism and so on but there are those you Eric hman among others who I'm persuaded by who say no actually this is A radicalization of liberalism like this isn't cultural Marxism this is the inevitable extension of liberalism which became so consumed with minority rights and emotional harm that particularly within universities emotional safetyism protecting minorities racial sexual and gender minorities from harm from perceived emotional harm was basically prioritized Over The Pursuit Of Truth objective science objective knowledge And that just filtered through everything and the moment the Northstar became this notion of

of of harm of protecting people from harm everything trickled down from that now that's what I saw in universities is what I see in left right in politics this endless obsession with Dei this endless obsession with anti-racism training this endless obsession with apologizing for what happened 500 years ago it is I think fundamentally this Sacralization of minorities that that is lying at the heart of this ideological Revolution okay let me add another ugly Dimension to that line of argumentation and this is something I haven't talked much about this publicly but at least not in this

context but I think it's probably worth broaching it so I did a research project in 2016 just before my academic career blew up um where we were looking at predictors of politically correct authoritarianism first of all we Established that such a thing existed all protestations to the progressive of the progressive uh social psychologist to the contrary there was a coherent set of left-wing authoritarian beliefs and you could identify them statistically then the question was what predicted them okay we found three major predictors and we we had no aii presumption about this um the first predictor

was low verbal intelligence and so when you ask Yourself well how could be people be daed enough to believe such things is well one of the answers to that our research showed was that well people who swallowed that those ideologies weren't that smart and so they were very much likely to dominate those academic subdisciplines that attracted the least cognitively able people okay so it was a big predictor the the correlation between IQ and politically correct authorit authoritarianism was higher Than the correlation between uh cognitive ability IQ and grades it was a whopping predictor the next

here's now here's the so that's bad enough here's the kicker though there were two other major predictors three actually the first was being female I was going to say that yeah yeah the second was having a female temperament that was an additional predictor over and above being female the third was having ever taken a politically correct Course okay so now that you know you pointed out that this ethos of harm avoidance let's say something like that this protective ethos started to dominate well no one has been courageous enough or fool enough to broach the possibility

that the reason for that is that the universities became dominated by not only women this is even worse I might as well go in all the way childless women yeah right and that's actually actually there are a couple of Papers on that Jordan I'm sure you see I think Cory Clark uh and I've read a couple I think uh showing basically the feminization of higher education over the last 50 years but there's something else listening to you that that just came into my mind I don't know if you've read it there's a a book by

a psychologist called Luke Conway that came out I think a year ago uh called liberal bullies and what he has done which is fascinating is he's Gone back and looked at all the old stuff on right-wing authoritarianism and and and the SC and the scales the scales that they used comparing right-wing authoritarians with left-wing authoritarians and of course the old argument this is you know going back 50 years of social science was that you don't get leftwing authoritarians you only get right-wing authoritarians yeah what a lie that it was and the whole literature right has

just been debunked Because what Conway is saying well if you actually if you change the scales because they were measuring right-wing authoritarianism differently from leftwing authoritarianism if you use the same scales on both what you find is that so-called Liberals are actually more prone to authoritarian impulses and tendencies than conservatives and if anything explains the last 15 years in Western politics a kind of great awokening you know all of the you know Fanaticism um and dogmatism that we saw around black lives matter and the social justice movement it's this it's this take you know I

I read his book and I was like there it is so basically social scientists were misleading everybody I would say maybe they knew about it maybe they were just lying to people and here we have evidence that that if you identify as highly liberal you are more prone to authoritarian impulses than conservatives okay okay so they were They were definitely at least Lying by Omission like I got into the study of left-wing authoritarianism sort of sideways because I'm a personality and clinical psychologist not a social psychologist and the people who studied right-wing authoritarianism or authoritarianism

let's say were social psychologists and so then I had to master the social psychological literature and I found to my absolute bloody shock what you just Described which was that for 60 years the social psychologists essentially had insisted that there was no such thing as left-wing authoritarianism and I thought well what what do you mean there's no such thing as left-wing authoritarianism for Christ's sake who did who the hell do you think was who do you think Stalin was and Ma that's not left-wing murderous authoritarianism and that's why we did this research but but here's

another thing that's that's horrible and I don't know if cway has dealt with this and I didn't know about the book and I will read it see the pattern of cancel culture is the same pattern as female antisocial Behavior so there is a literature on antisocial Behavior that's sex typed so antisocial males are violent they're physically violent and and they're criminal for that regard and they tend to get thrown in prison because of it because we don't tolerate violent crime white color crimes not so Bad you can defund a million people out of their pension

but you don't want a m someone and you know I can understand that because people are afraid of being physically assaulted but but we definitely have a differential scale of Justice when it comes to economic damage anyways female antisocial types they don't use physical aggression they use gossip reputation savaging and and like like camouflaged aggression right and so you could imagine I mean this is a very Ugly hypothesis but there's no reason to assume that women are going to be any less pathological in their social behavior than men it'll just take a different form so

I was just going to say I would say the evidence on Council culture you know comprehensive rigorous surveys across the West is pretty consistent in showing that that female Scholars especially young female PhD students are consistently the most likely to endorse a range of cancel Culture measures they're the most likely for example to say that we should sacrifice academic freedom and free speech on the altar of protecting minorities from harm so I think that's a big part of the story I mean again it's controversial and the fact that we would struggle to have this debate

uh at an Oxford um you know Union debate or on Cambridge campus is itself a reflection of of the problems within universities I think it's an enormous part and in Politics too by the way I think if you look at the people who have been most dogmatic when it comes to the debates over migration Net Zero um who have refused to look at the issue of the rape gangs have refused to give the country a national inquiry routinely I mean routinely it's been prominent women in in in in National Pol political life and I think

there's also by the way been a lot of hypocrisy there too I mean if you Just take the case of of the rape gangs you know the whole me too Scandal you know middle class liberal middle class liberal professional women who didn't say anything at all about young white working-class girls being raped harassed and abused by by Muslim gangs and you know there's just I think people aren't stupid they can see a lot of this stuff that's that's playing out before them well it's a good thing that neither of us have academic jobs anymore because

if We had had them this conversation would have done them in for like seven different reasons okay let's turn back to the rape gang issue because you know in for a penny in for a pound and so if you don't mind what I would like you to do is you know I've looked at the rape gang issue as much as I possibly could as an outsider to the U to the UK right and was shocked by it absolutely shocked Beyond Comprehension that such a thing could even be vaguely possible I Couldn't even believe it when

I first started to investigate it which was probably about 15 years ago by the way and so the first thing I'd like you to do for people who are watching and listening and for me is just to do you want to just describe what you see as the reality of the rape gang situation in the UK just lay it out you mentioned 56 ities and up to something approximating a million victims so tell us tell us what you Believe to be the case in the UK with regards to these rape gags Define them and then

tell us what the case is yeah so the first thing I would say is that this will go down in history I think is the biggest Scandal uh in British Society one that much of the establishment deliberately ignored and downplayed for half a century what we are talking about to be clear is the sexual exploitation of mainly young white workingclass girls often from very Uh damaged broken homes vulnerable girls uh the organized industrial scale rape and sexual assault of those girls by predominantly uh Pakistani Muslim gangs of men operating in Alliance with one another trafficking

those girls from one town to another often uh having some kind of connections with police Social Services we have police officers who have been uh arrested and and and being brought before court because of their Involvement uh with these rape gangs and the rumors of this really began uh Jordan uh from the 1970s 1980s but it wasn't really until 2011 when one or two Rogue journalists started to talk about the issue uh and some prominent political activists and campaigners too but this was instantly branded a topic of you know farri politics it was seen as

low status to talk about it in Westminster and then as the transcripts came out of these girls As the number of towns increased as I say upwards of 50 towns and cities across the UK uh and you know lots of young girls coming before court saying they were put on heroin they were put on cocaine um they were told they were targeted because they were white they were non-muslim and they were trash they were white prostitutes those are words that were were used in in the court transcripts and as the evidence simply became unavoidable we

Then started to get these local inquiries into key towns like Rotherham a town where 1,400 girls at least were raped uh and sexually assaulted by these gangs towns like oldum and Telford and it wasn't really until actually the beginning of 2025 that uh the release and the recirculation of some of those transcripts in conjunction with Elon mus drawing attention to it basically forced Westminster forced the elite in the in in Britain to actually do something and talk about this crisis in a much bigger way but even then they said actually we're not going to have

a national inquiry into this issue which is outrageous because this is is clearly a systemic National crisis that involves social workers police officers uh Muslim communities gangs of men it's been going on for 30 40 years some of these girls by the way have been murdered um I just Want to mention a few names Lucy low Victoria agoglia Charlene DS everyone around the world has heard of George Floyd nobody's heard those names uh these are girls who were who were murdered uh when they were 12 13 14 years of age um you know like you

I'm a father I find this absolutely despicable and even when in some of these cases even when fathers in desperation were trying to get their uh daughters back were trying to save their daughters from These gangs they were then arrested they were then uh told that they were uh breaking the law so every aspect of this Scandal is utterly hideous and the fact that our labor government you know which has announced 25 National inquiries for other issues cannot bring itself to launch an inquiry this time around also tells you a lot it tells you that

labor is scared about the scale of this crisis it tells you that labor officials are probably implicated in this crisis and We do know that some labor officials have been implicated in this crisis in local uh towns in England it tells you that this crisis probably goes much deeper within the state than we currently uh are being led to believe and it tells you again that because the victims are white workingclass girls that within the Matrix of social justice ideology which dominates many of the public sector institutions they are simply not seen as being fashionable

or Important enough to Warrant the same level of attention and concern that other groups in our society receive okay let's see if we can sort out why that is because you might assume that if the elites that we were describing have a harm uh ethic like a harm reduction ethic that you might associate with a maternal Instinct gone astray that the that a logical Target for an empathic impulse like that might be Underprivileged workingclass girls like it doesn't seem to stretch the bounds of of credibility unless and you know I think I maybe detected this

as a strain in British Society because I'm a bit of an outsider looking in unless part of the motivation for The Virtue signaling on the part of the people who are ignoring this including upper class women is to separate themselves as much as they possibly can from any hint whatsoever of contamination with that Lower class status is that I know that's a harsh judgment but you I've seen that yeah I think so let okay so let me add another layer to that and again I'm speaking as an ignorant man you know I'm not a citizen

of the UK and I'm trying to sort out what the hell's going on there as an outsider you know I really became aware of the grooming gangs as a consequence of my knowledge of Tommy Robinson and I Started watching him about 15 years ago and I interviewed him last year my wife first and then or my wife and I she it was actually at her instigation um and then we did two interviews and my sense with Tommy was you know I kind of understand him because I was raised in a working class environment by the

way and so I understand what sort of character he is and he's also super bright he's remarkably intelligent and you know he's got a checkered past but my sense of Tommy Robinson and I'm more than happy to hear your take on this is that he uh he's he's a representative of the working class he saw what was happening to the girls in Community including his own cousin who fell prey to these gangs and he started to make quite the damn fuss about it and he wasn't afraid to point fingers particularly in the direction of the

Pakistani rape gangs and we have to talk about the fact that they're well you know because we're Already in serious trouble in seven different ways they're Pakistani Muslim rape gangs that's the ones we're concentrating on and at the moment in the UK from what I understand and this has been the case for quite a while to specify it that carefully and precisely let's say opens you up to accusations of being like a far-right Neo-Nazi like Tommy Robinson let's say so tell me what you think about Robinson and the reaction to him I mean I know

people Like Pierce Morgan I get along fine with Pierce he's treated me great we've had lots of good discussions he's certainly no fan of Tommy Robinson and he's pillared in the British press as a general rule I know there was a huge demonstration what last week 100,000 people I heard the leg media never bloody well reported it anyways see tell me what you think about that mess so I've always found Tommy Robinson interesting for a number of reasons We're similar age he grew up um in Luton which is very close to the town I grew

up on the outskirts of somewhere called St Orbin um I'm very you know he he reminds me of lots of the guys I grew up with you know I don't want to make it too personal my background was somewhat similar not not not stable certainly wasn't middle class um and so when I saw him first breakthrough in 200920 drawing attention to this issue I kind of you know I sort of understood Where he was coming from and the anger and the frustration that was driving that um now where I departed from Robinson is that I

felt at the time that being so provocative and this was between 2009 and 20134 with his movement the English Defense League by by being so provocative um on the streets I felt that he was playing into the hands of the state that he was becoming useful for the state which was Then saying well if you talk about these issues you're like these guys and I think he's obviously been on a journey he's not the same person today that he was then but I think the reality of Tommy Robinson is that he would not have become

a prominent significant figure in our national political life which he is were it not for the sustained failures of the British state to deal with the issues that he has been campaigning on had they taken this issue seriously had They investigated the rumors had they looked at at the rise of of radical islamism as well particular within um some of the communities that Robinson knows very well uh then he wouldn't have become a significant figure so you know he he certainly gave voice to some of the issues that were being ignored as did by the

way um a few other people at the time some some Renegade journalists and so on but I think all I think at the same time though and this is A it's a it's a sensitive conversation because I think everybody who cares about this issue you know cares cares very strongly about it right my view is that the only way we can change Western societies today we can save Western Civilization we can reassert the values that we care about is Through The Ballot Box that's my view that the only way forward is by appealing to a

majority of concerned citizens by bringing together a broad Coalition of people who say Actually enough is enough I'm not going to have this project imposed on me anymore I'm not going to support Mass controlled immigration I'm not going to be told that little boys can become little girls and little girls can become little boys I'm not going to uh see my my country my home be denigrated in this way you know I want to push back through The Ballot Box and to me that's the only viable alternative plausible Way Forward it's not to say that

I think these People are wrong to be highlighting these issues but I think if you're serious about bringing about change changing things changing policy changing government I think The Ballot Box is the way forward I don't think Britain has the same culture as France Italy and other countries whereby Street protest is embraced or supported I think we have a very distinctive political culture in this country Which social scientists Have talked about from the 50s onward we have a Civic culture we're very skeptical of what anything that might look like it's aggressive anything that might look

like it's um you know challenging the rule of law and I think ultimately it it's about what approach do you think is really the most viable way to bring about change okay so you're okay so if I'm reading this correctly your criticism of Robinson would be that he took the protest route let's say Rather than working within a system that you still regard an electoral system that you regard as viable and and you you have your reasons to regard it as viable I mean let me just put it a different way I think path I

think path dependency really matters in politics I think where you start determines your eventual destination so if you start with a movement that's very combative provocative that is associated with you Know rightly or wrongly it was associated with with drinking and conflict and fighting with cops and whatever it's just going to be very difficult for you to change the public perception right from where you start basically determines your eventual destination now what I'm interested in I'm interested in movements that are winning 30 40% of the national vote as in I want to get things done

I want to do what Trump's doing in the US I want To come in and say right we're slashing the state we're getting rid of Dei we're ending Mass uncontrolled immigration we're going to have a serious strategy for integration right we're going to push back on Net Zero I I'm interested in that I'm not interested in a purity spiral over on the over on the corner here as to you know who's been talking about this issue for the longest period of time I respect people who are ahead of the curve on on On issues like

that but I'm ultimately interested in how do you actually save a country what's the most viable way of doing that look there's two way we can take this conversation now and we have to kind of decide between them because we're we're going to run out of time although we have an additional half an hour on the daily wire side so what we could do we could take apart the Pakistani Muslim immigrant issue and see if we could discuss the separate Contributions of each of those three attributes to the rape gang phenomena right that's a hard

thing to do but but it would be it would be worth doing the other thing we could do because I don't think we can do both is we could further discuss the plan that you just described or the vision that you just described in relationship let's say to the to the um U Reform Party in Nigel farage and we could talk about how it is that you might Reinvigorate UK civil society and move it away from this virtue signaling Net Zero and multiculturalism idiocy and so do you have a preference to those for one of

those directions well person I would I would want to focus on how we realign politics and and and save this country that's that's where I'm investing a lot of my effort I have a a plan for that I think I have something that is that looks pretty credible I'm involved in in the plan to to try and do That I'm speaking across the country at many events um you know alongside people like Nigel farage and I'm interested in thinking about how do we realign this country in the way that Canada was realigned for a period

of time in the way that America is currently being realigned what would what does that actually look like uh because For the first time in history I think it's actually possible as you and I are talking right now reform is number one In the National polls okay it's on 25 26% it needs to really get to about 31% to win a majority at the next election I think that's possible I genuinely do I think there's so much volatility in British politics at the moment I think it is possible for this movement to actually do what

the labor party did in the early 20th century when it emerged to replace the Liberals I think there is an an enormous opportunity for reform to do that principally but not only because Of the mass immigration crisis uh so that's where I'm spending a lot of my time and the rape gangs is part of that but to me that's a symbol of the failure of our state policy of multiculturalism it's a symbol of the failure of mass immigration and it's a symbol of this political correctness the fact that so few people were willing to talk

about it that has created this enormous vacuum that you're seeing now uh playing out in the National polls okay so let's do that Okay so let's start by let's start with this so could you detail out your both your association with and your understanding of the I guess we're going to concentrate on the Reform Party in in the UK and differentiate that from well the current conservatives maybe even the classic conservatives in the UK so how are you associated with reform what do you think of Nigel farage and what he's doing and how would you

distinguish reform from the whatever the Conservatives are now the Net Zero conservatives let's say the liberal conservatives I think probably uh many people in Britain would call them um or the uni party they're indistinguishable from the labor party look I uh I think many people in Britain know I mean I I'm friends with Nigel farage I've known him for 15 years I'm very sympathetic to what he's trying to do I speak at Reform Party uh rallies and conferences and um you know I have a close Association uh With the party because I believe fundamentally it's

the only political movement that we have that is capable of bringing about the kind of change this country needs to see if it is to be saved and by that I mean ending Mass uncontrolled low skilled low wage migration from outside of Europe uh I mean fixing our borders by leaving the European convention on human rights by reforming the laws that Tony Blair brought in including the Human Rights Act uh by uh dramatically reducing the 15.3 billion pounds that we spend in foreign aid every year and making sure that our Public Services work for British

people before we uh send money to China uh India and and elsewhere I mean pushing Back Against The Net Zero uh project and I mean investing in non-london areas in places outside of the capital in PL and investing in people outside of the elite minority now I have come to the view the Tories the Conservative party are completely incapable of doing those things they they are The Architects of the mess that we see around us today they are The Architects of our national Decline and the labor party is part of that I do not view

reform as merely a new conservative party that would be selling it short I view reform as a noneof thee above party neither left nor right as a party that could just as easily win over the working class in northern England and Wales in the industrial heartlands as it could win over disillusion conservatives in the Tor shy look Jordan I'll be honest with you I don't think Nigel farage has all the answers and I don't think the reform movement is the perfect movement but what I think is that Britain is for the first time really in

Generations is ideally positioned for a full-blown political realignment and I think Nigel far and reform are are the vehicle that can be used to bring that About okay so let let me compare and contrast this your your Reform Party agenda let's say with the agenda that we've put forward perhaps more on the philosophical side with this Alliance for responsible citizenship we have a conference coming up in London February 17th to 19th we'll have about 4,000 people there I think that what we're aiming at has uh what they're to some degree they are overlapping ven diagrams

with what reform has been proposing so We have five major policy initiatives six CU we added initial an additional one so let me just lay those out and I want to do that not to advertise art precisely although that's you know handy um but to give us uh structure that we can use to take apart the reform platform so um cheap reliable plentiful energy in all of its forms to drive energy cost down so we don't starve the poor people to death let's say allied with something Approximating responsible environmental stewardship but that doesn't mean nature

worship and it certainly doesn't mean there's too godamn many people on the planet um a rekindling of the narrative that the West is founded on and a re restoration of appreciation for the fundamental principles that the free West is predicated on I'll give you an example 100% of protestant and Catholic majority countries outside of Africa are highly functional Western democracies There's a reason for that and no one will talk about it and so that needs to be discussed we're not a fan of government media Corporation collusion so it's anti-fascist in the genuine sense um we're

very pro- family we don't think there are too many people on the planet we think that monogamous child centered married couples are the appropriate environment for children and the foundation of a civil society and that's well that's basically In so far as they those aren't policies they're axioms that's a good way of thinking about it and so I'm wondering perhaps what you think of those but also more specifically how you see that in relationship to what the Reform Party is doing maybe even what the Trump Administration is doing in in the United States well the

first thing I would say is congratulations Jordan you are a reformer uh if you believe all of those things uh then you share the platform of Reform and I look forward to to seeing you at ARK but in my mind there are two principles that that differentiate this movement from what we might call the uni party in my mind and I'm not speaking in an in an official capacity for reform the first is the principle of popular sovereignty I think reform believes that the true source of Power Authority and legitimacy lies not with a distant

Elite but with the people I believe that ultimately um the the relationship in Politics that matters is vertical it runs from the people to those they elect to represent them on their behalf it does not run horizontally from one group of Elites in in Westminster to another group of Elites in Davos to another group of Elites in Washington so I believe foremost in the principle of popular sovereignty that's what got things like brexit over the line and that's what will get many other Common Sense positions over the line the second Principle that I think uh

unites reformers and certainly is something I believe in is the principle National preference namely that in every aspect of our country our home I believe from housing to the economy to our culture identity and history that uh the people of that country should ultimately be prioritized that if limited housing is available if uh limited places on the National Health Service are available if we have money we should focus on fixing Our home before helping other parts of the world that's not say we don't want to help other parts of the world it's just about the

ranking and the Order of preference those are the two principles that I think put the reform movement um clearly apart from the uni party because both the labor party and the Tory party have shown consistently that they don't respect the values and the voice of ordinary people and they have shown quite clearly that they don't have much Of an interest in prioritizing and protecting our home and the things that make our home distinct Ive its identity its culture and uh its sense of collective memory or its history so to me you know reform is a

common sense position almost all of its policies from migration to um uh the borders to uh the economy uh almost all of them are supported by large majorities of people uh and they used to be advocated by mainstream politicians it's just as I Say the elite class has drifted so far to the cultural left you know we had a survey recently in Britain by some social scientists and they found that labor and Tory MPS are closer together ideologically than Tory MPS are to the average voter right in other words the conservative movement have moved so

far to the cultural left that they've basically abandoned ordinary voters they're indistinguishable basically from their labor colleagues now nobody could Say that about reform MPS they are bang on basically where the average voter is uh on these these big cultural and identity questions so that's how that's how I see it and I see it's a it's a correction to A system that has become deeply corrupt and ideologically homogeneous I should have pointed out too given what you just said that one of the primary focuses of Arc as well and this overlaps with the principles that

you just laid out is the principle of Responsible citizenship hence the name Alliance of responsible citizens and it is predicated on the IDE idea that sovereignty properly inherits in the people and that the and that Society not not only can't be but shouldn't be governed by top- down elitist rule by let's say Force compulsion and fear that ordinary people aren't so ordinary and that they have to that it would be best All Things Considered for them to adopt responsibility for their own sovereignty And to govern their own Affairs that's partly an emergent consquence of the

principle of subsidiarity which is an ancient doctrine of social order that has been classically viewed as the alternative to tyranny and slavery and so okay and so that's in keeping with your well your let's say something like a return to the people which is a deep obviously a deep British tradition may maybe the deepest of British traditions and something that the you Brits have Given to the world most fundamentally it'd be a catastrophe to see that disappear but I just say just about the the conversation that you're sparking with ARG you know you have to

understand Jordan that that that is essentially the only place that is having that conversation here in the UK I mean if you look at the long-term forecast of where we are headed as a country by 2100 you know our fertility rate is forecast to be 1.3 you know well below the Replacement level of 2.1 it's currently at about 1.6 at the moment we also now know that uh between today and 2047 which again isn't really that far away 22 years uh our population is forecast to grow by another 10 million people uh obviously all of

whom will come from outside of the UK migration is the only driver it is the only driver of population growth in this country because more people are now dying than being born among the British population So migration is the only driver of population growth while our fertility rate is collapsing so what what I'm saying is if you want to a conversation about pro- family policy okay what does that look like how can we support families outside of you know tinkering with the tax system how could we actually radically have bring about a pro- family culture

right and people say oh you can't do that well I say well look what they did with smoking I mean Look at how you know that that changed the culture right you've suddenly convinced everybody Israel has done it Israel has done it now interestingly Israel has Israel has had a lot more success than countries like Poland and and Hungary also countries on well now how Israel done it Israel's done it by making it clear that actually the survival of the nation the survival of the people is dependent upon them all assuming responsibility and playing a

Role in that Enterprise now somehow Western Nations have to come up with something similar something that is existential that appeals to the soul and appeals to that sense of responsibility because I don't think tax changes and all that stuff are really going to do it but again so that conversation is happening at ARC it's not happening with our mainstream political Elite uh the effects of migration they're not talking about the evidence that is being Accumulated that is showing this is going to be a disaster over the next uh 10 20 30 years what we're doing

like Canada is we are pushing our country into a population trap what do I mean by that I mean that we are basically pushing ourselves into a position whereby the capacity of the state to provide B basic Public Services is being overwhelmed by the sheer scale of demographic change that's a population trap so if you cannot provide basic Health services basic housing if you cannot keep people safe on their streets and you're being sort of you flooded with demographic change well you know welcome to a disaster because that is what is unfolding not just here

but also by the way in countries like Sweden I mean most of your viewers I suspect won't know this but since Christmas you know we're speak speaking in February 2025 in the last month there have been more than 30 bombings in Sweden 30 Bombings none of covered with none of that's in the mainstream media again you know convers conversations that I have that are being had thankfully in this new ecosystem of podcasts of shows of daily wire new universities that is one of the reasons one of the few reasons why I am actually optimistic because

we are now beginning to force a conversation about family policy about the rape gangs about the future of the West uh about how we Reframe our understanding of our history about how we uh you know share a sense of uh patriotism and a belief in the values that have driven this this this this thing we love called Western Civilization that's one of the only Reasons I'm actually optimistic that this new ecosystem uh has taken off to the extent that that it has done all right well well okay first I'm looking forward to continuing the conversation

at ARC in Mid-February and it is a conversation because we're trying to figure out how to move toward the implementation of these let's say broadscale philosophical visions that we're putting forward and there's obviously a conversation to be had well I think with the conservatives as well as with reform but certainly with reform and you know I'm I'm certainly attending very carefully to your concerns about the cap of the conservatives because it fact that They're still promoting Net Zero seems to me to indicate quite likely that that capture is pretty complete but in any case we've

got many things to talk about and there is some reason for optimism I think maybe what we'll do on the daily wire side for those of you who are watching and listening is I think maybe we'll return to the issue of the rape gangs because there's some more delving into that I'd like to do um both on the pessimistic and the optimistic side Because I'd like to take apart the contributing factor on the side of the perpetrators like just exactly who are they and why are they doing what they're doing apart from you know issues

of pure unadulterated lust with some you know with some genuine sadism mixed in there so I think we'll do that on the daily War side um apart from that I'd like to thank you for talking to me today and for being so forthright um that's a hell of a Conversation to have to have there's so many terrible things to delve into and uh I'm looking forward to seeing you at ARK thanks Jordan looking forward to seeing you as well yeah much appreciated and to all of you watching and listening on the YouTube side thank you

very much for your time and attention thanks to the Daily wire for making this possible the film crew here in DC I'm in DC today at the prayer breakfast and uh well we'll We'll continue our conversation for another 30 minutes behind the daily wire pay wall [Music]