Bodybuilding Training & Improving Gut Health For Gains | Austin Stout, Dave Tate's Table Talk #297

Well let let me pause you with that one because getting back to the gut health a lot of people won't even register that that's a symptom for them they that morning you know they may have you know blown like it's coming out of a garden house right and then ask four hours later you know how's your digestion it's it's good right so it's really think about that first like what just across the Board what are you taking for granted that could be abnormal that you know's abnormal when you're doing it like when you're you know

splattering the toilet in the morning four times before you leave the house right they it's the uh this is normal for me I'm like no it's not normal for [Music] [Applause] anyone time down keep it real and cut The [ __ ] welcome to table talk all right guys we're back with another episode of table talk today my guest is Austin Stout Austin is a physical I I made notes here right so a physical enhancement and health coach I made the note of that because that's on your Instagram but I like the way that sounds

because it encompasses everything that you do yeah and you've been doing this for over a decade almost 15 years right yeah hundreds of clients that You've worked with also a competitive bodybuilder last show was a couple years ago so before we get into some topics I want to kind of do a deep dive into some of these things let's just recap how you got into all this so wrestling in high school is where we'll jump off so I don't need to hear about your CH your childhood yeah yeah and stuff like that so as bad

or good as it was we don't need to know that all right so you're wrestling and then you find training What point in your wrestling career did you with the training's always involved yep at what point throughout your process did the training start to become as important or more important than the sport I think with it being a weight restricted sport you know it's like there's a lot of delarius habits with weight cutting and all that stuff and um performance suffers especially when you have like same day weigh-ins like that so I wrestled 145 pounds

in high school My senior year um funny story I actually Wrestled a heavier weight class the year before because then when I got in into nutrition and training a little bit more I was actually to able to drop down a class and perform better and be less tired leaner so on and so forth but what I was Finding was every everything nutritionally I would try to pull up was all bodybuilders so I'm like all right well these guys know something because that's the only thing I kept searching And searching and I ran across like everything

I was like bodybuilding media bodybuilding media you know whether it was back then it was no IG so it was or Facebook barely yeah and a lot of the sport nutrition things you would find was not what you would be looking for correct and so it was like muscular development uh RX muscle forums you know uh professional muscle um to you know kind of got into That realm so right on the back end of that right and so then so beyond that point I I actually started training like a bodybuilder for wrestling which hindsight probably

wasn't the wasn't the most optimal thing but of course I got way stronger and the muscle that fast twitch muscle still translated in wrestling and so I had a I had a little bit of a scholarship offer for wrestling I didn't really like the school I you know I wasn't D1 level so I Decided to go to a local school and I'm like you know what I'm going to keep doing this bodybuilding thing so I actually started prepping for my first show I was still in high school so I'm bringing all my tough Weare to

school sitting at the lunch table that that weirdo yeah you know all my weight out [ __ ] everyone's getting Uncrustables from the you know the lunch line and [ __ ] and uh so I did my first show in August of that year so I graduated Probably you know May June May somewhere in there did the first show in August in the teenage Division I prepped myself out of a Beverly International magazine okay so I followed the diet and I adjusted it for my you know my weight and I kind of was like okay

when I stall I eat less I take the [ __ ] away you I was doing like the prescribed refeeds and things that they had in there and uh I did fine you know didn't know what I was doing but I did okay and then the Next show I competed the following year and I got linked up with uh with a coach he helped me for a couple years there mostly in preps and I finally 2011 I got into like real bodybuilding shape um you know like strided glutes like the whole how' you do in

that first show I think I got I think I got second place out of five people in the teen teen division which whatever you know was fine yeah I did kind of the same thing it was the summer after my high schools when I did My first bodybuilding show and it was kind of the same process right just eat last train and yeah I placed about same you know so nothing to dial home about no I mean you figure at but up to that point before my senior year high school I'd never seen my abs

before like I was not ripped yeah even at 145 wrestling I mean I did by then by that time when I got lean but you know prior to that I was basically just a chubby stocky chubby kid I wrestled 145 I competed at Like 148 pounds maybe next year was a little heavier following year so basically as the years went on I competed as lightweight a welterweight a middleweight then light heavyweight um and so kind of fast forward there I I was going to school I was going to school for originally I was looking at

Medical Fields so like physical therapy and right around that time they changed it from a master's degree to PhD and I was like nah I don't Like it enough like I don't like it enough to go two or $300,000 in debt and what three two three more years I just didn't right so I did all the all the prere so I had all that stuff already there so I basically just switched my major over to nutrition finished school but I was already personal training people in person and you know doing some um doing some dietary

stuff on the side and by 20 I would say by around 22 years old I was full time already um that's All that I did I was broke as hell I lived in an apartment and back then online coaching I mean I could count on my hands how many people you actually knew that did it unlike now everyone in their mother's online coaching so you know I was fortunate enough to get in early um and get introduced to some good people like I I knew John well um Eric Sano you know Eric's Eric's probably the

one that introduced me a lot into more functional medicine because of course me Competing three years in a row crashed my hormones crashed my thyroid did all the all the [ __ ] that you you know that you shouldn't do and uh so how' that conversation go I've been in that office many times so well so originally originally I had gone to my family doctor because I mean I felt I felt terrible I'm like why am I 20 years old I feel like I can't walk up flight of stairs you know and he's you know

he checked my I finally convinced him to Check my hormones checks some I think my total test was 150 nanograms at 20 I never touched any keep in mind I was completely clean and uh he's like well you just need to you know eat better like dude you don't know your bodybuilding yeah like I don't know what you're talking about so I got connected with Eric and of course we didn't want to immediately jump right to MH right on to HRT we was like all right so let's try to gain some body weight back let's

Try to increase the food reduce the training and we did and and actually my test was worse after about six months he's like you're going to have to go on because and the other thing is he's like I know you're going to keep competing so realistically even if we can get your levels up like what's the sustainability of that long term so I was prescribed you know early 21 I was almost 22 and uh then over the years I'd ran into Gast you know gastrointestinal issues Digestion issues so like I basically all that stuff I

started implementing into my own coaching so now the field that's kind of known as like Functional Health You' call it I was kind of one of the early people on the front end of that doing specialized testing and doing looking at things like digestion and microbiome and cortisol and and hormones and things and female reproductive and fertility and and all that and so that's so as of now that's probably about 40 to 50% of my business is that side and then the other side is competitors like last weekend we were in Chicago I had a

open Pro bodybuilder and the uh Chicago Pro so like I'll have that one day next day I've got postpartum mom yeah you know talking about lactation well that's that's kind of like the reality that most people don't understand with what I you guys do is they think you're only working strictly with competitive bodybuilders or strength athletes or Whatever it's going to be and while there are some that do that most don't I I think now it's hard to just Corner yourself like that because I think in I think it's difficult because we've seen the need

for understanding some of those things you don't have to be an expert at it necessarily but just basic things like fatigue management and manag volume and training and stuff stuff that powerlifters have been doing for years it's like you can't just give somebody Macros and send them on their way anymore like you're going to get phased out real quick no one's going to hire you and who's going to pay who's going to pay four or 500 bucks a month in some cases for that yeah you know it's that brings back some memories there where I've

worked with some people in the past and that's kind of what I should probably put a disclaimer out there is I know know how to manage those you know but that would be what the update was You know here's the macros for the week or however it would undulate throughout the week and then put the foods in however you want that's it you know so you'd send your weight maybe a photo and then that would be adjusted and I always wondered and I did find out later that's not how the coaches I worked with worked

with everybody because you have different clientele some clientele you you may able to do that with but there's still other things that can be going on Which is kind of where when you get into the gut biome and all the other kind of stuff is just let's go back through your competitive career and as you're competing each one of these things came on your radar probably at different times which led to you going down the rabbbit hole essentially for yourself to be a better competitor and then that ends up making you better Coach on the

side yeah so when what was the first Functional Health topic you ran into as A competitor outside of the hormones we already kind of talked about the trt thing what was the other ones that as they kind of came onto your radar I think the next I think the next biggest thing was probably more in the digestive realm because what I was what I was Finding was now I had competed frequently so I never really had like a proper off seon so I'm like I'm going to do this you know two years I'm going to

eat I'm going to just Hammer the weights Cuz I love training so like [ __ ] I can't eat anymore why am I why am I bloated all the time you know it's why am I you know why am I having loose stools like why is all this [ __ ] going on and so well there's got to be something to this I can't I can't possibly grow and absorb nutrients and things if I'm functioning this way and I think what it did for me was it just made me more aware of recognizing these things

with clients Cuz back in that time people weren't asking those questions so they so it wasn't being reported back to you as a coach you know you have a qu you have like a check-in form that has whatever your weight weight basic yeah some basic feedback cardio but no one knew to even report that stuff to you because no one was asking those questions so I'm like I'm you know I'm going to ask more questions because I was finding that like well why to some of these clients It's just basic math I take away calories

they lose weight and they lose body fat I give calories they gain weight they increase dose they get bigger they get stronger like but why is it not working for some of these other people like what am I missing and of course I started asking more questions and I'm like okay they're not digesting their food they're not able to eat they're they have terrible acid reflux they have you know whatever they've been Having [ __ ] for three days you know so as I asked more questions I started realizing how actually widespread those issues were

especially in my bodybuilding population because especially like my male bodybuilders I mean you know you're just taught like eat as much as you possibly can I it's funny because one of the off Seasons I was eating seven I got up I was like 7200 calories a day like third of it was Liquid because I'm just dude I'm just Like I want to die every second of the day I'm sitting and I remember at the end of it there was a point I'm getting ready to get in the shower sitting on the toilet I'm like trying

to finish this meal just I'm just like I'm just like butt ass naked on the toilet try and then I puke all over just down the front of myself and I'm like dude there's got to be a different way to do that like this can't like well at the same time are you calculating how many Calories you just puked out go back to the kitchen you got to get it back in I got to go back to the kitchen again yeah yeah and I'm like so and and the funny thing you know the funny thing

about it was when I dyed it back down I'm like I gained five pounds you know like but for what you know so like there's got to be more to this and so of course all those things led me to continue to get into these topics more and more and more um and it translated heavily over into the Clients and then I got I would say beyond that getting more into like the Stress Management piece was huge because I'm like so what are the drivers of this things Beyond food because I'm getting these female clients

and stuff that come from these like yo-yo dieting over dieting background rounds they prepped my bikini competitors they prepped like six times a year for the Last 5 Years I'm like well why are they having digestive issues and understanding how Stress played into that and how that affected their nervous system and digestive motility and all that other stuff thr some birth control in there throw some antibiotics in there and uh man it's a there it's it's a complex topic but the but the stress piece was the one that that really drove it home for me

and understanding that that was no matter what that was always a component for everyone but it could be stress could be like environmental like Your job or your you husband wife relationship could be your training you know it could be someone's training doing two a day seven days a week and it's like maybe that's the problem or it's some accumulation understanding like that alistic load type of thing you know like it's like a pie chart you know it's like there's a lot of things that go into that so is there some of the questions that

were going through my head if if somebody's Carb cycling for instance you know you may have you know calories on one day of 2,000 calories the next day of 6,000 that's going to affect sure you know your digestion for sure so then you have the stress component physical mental all the other kind of stuff and food component you know if they're eating the same Foods all the time are they going to develop allergies from those Foods right and so when you're asking these questions of these people It's literally everything that is associated in their life

that you have to kind of peel through yep what seems to be the the I don't want to make it seem like it's with everybody but what seems to be the the lowest hanging fruit like after 15 years there's going to be certain things that it's it can be a hundred different things but usually it's always these 10 or 15 I think the lowest the the biggest piece is people's Just general lack of awareness okay so that's kind of like how do we get them to report when they don't know so like and you know

this just as well as me is you just grind until you just fall over you know it's like eventually you just have to stop because you just can't something breaks you know it's like but how so how do you get through to that person that maybe there's a point before that where where things might be an issue so that perceived that like idea Of perceived stress is difficult to teach people so what so maybe it's we have to use like biomarkers like looking at their blood glucose or their resting heart rate and and the thing

is like those stuff those things are good then that's also a slippery slope because people are hyperfocused on numbers and [ __ ] and they start obsessing about stuff so now the next thing you know I've got them like like [ __ ] coach should I wear a continuous glucose Monitor to check my glucose I'm like no yeah yeah you know now we're driving a new stress so I think that building awareness around the things that actually stress them and bother them and cause the problems in the first place is like that's step one and

and they normally tell me I they tell me without knowing they normally will report it so they'll kind of like spill the beans and then they'll say well I don't know why I'm feeling this way I'm like Just did you like go back and reread what you just sent me like everything that happened last week I'm like you just word vomited you know all this stuff and uh and so I have to you know go through and and make them aware of that so once we can get that accomplished and some people are great at

it and some people are are not great at it um then we can start peeling back the layers and they can actually work on managing you know managing those issues And and that's where the lowest hanging fruits I mean the easiest stuff is quantifiable training is always the easiest because Summer's here and so is the heat I've spent most life training in unconditioned gyms and I know most you that are training in garage gyms private gyms black Iron gyms know what I'm talking about when I say the Heat sucks it kills your motivation to go

to the gym it kills your performance but it doesn't have to if you keep your Electrolytes up that's why today's episode is sponsored by element element is a tasty electrolyte drink with everything you need and nothing you don't this means lots of salt with none of the junk no sugar no colors no artificial ingredients no gluten no fillers no BS it contains an electrolyte ratio of 1,000 Mig of sodium 200 migr of potassium and 60 millgram of magnesium element can help prevent and eliminate headaches muscle cramps fatigue brain Fog sleeplessness and other common symptoms associated

with electrolyte deficiency right now element is offering a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase get yours at drink element.com this deal is only available through the table talk link that's a number thing I can adjust the volume I can adjust the sets and the Reps and the RP or R whatever like you know whatever you want to use that I can quantify just telling someone to relax Is like yeah like how you know yeah there you know some people like have them meditate have them go out and do this I said you ever

tried said you ever tried to sit down and meditate when you're anxious as hell I said you're I said there's going to be demons all over in your head you know sitting on each shoulder and it's going to be difficult to do so sometimes it can be something as simple as you need a hobby man yeah like what else do you enjoy do You have a hobby like no all I do is sit home and eat meals and watch TV and and you know go to the gym and go back to work I'm like okay

well let's find something else that you can derive a little bit of Joy from you know so distractions can be helpful there but um but like I said everyone's a little bit different some people some people I I think um they deal with a lot of they deal with a lot of uh trauma and things from past from you know so it's habitual Yeah you know the behaviors are habitual so that's where it's like I'm not a therapist I'm technically I'm not a licensed therapist so sometimes I have to Outsource on some of that stuff

and be like listen it's not personal I just think I just think that you're doing some [ __ ] to yourself that's I'm concerned about you know we're talking like disordered eating and different patterns like that that are just really really bad and I am not licensed or Qualified to tell you how to fix these things even if maybe I can yeah so I have to maybe Outsource and and work with people in that way because we're all neurotic we're type A we're all OCD you know I was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder when I

was in my early 20s I had depression all through my childhood and then eventually they realized it was more of an OCD tendency and it's like well no wonder I'm good at This [ __ ] yeah you know but it was debilitating until I learned how to channel it into my work and channel it into being like task oriented and scheduling and doing all the other stuff it just owned my life like everything because OCD in most of us it's a control thing right it's like we want to be in control we want to be

in control of the numbers in control of our of our destiny and control of our goals it's like sometimes you got to let someone else be In control yeah well stress is a weird thing because it's so broad right and then with that and we'll keep training as the example because it's it's the simplest right is you can have somebody that say they stress or they cup is over full because of the training aspect and you can dial their training back and then keep dialing it back but that's not going to be the actual solution

because they actually may need to be able to grow or for the stimulus that they need Higher work capacity so the the the Band-Aid or the this the pause I guess is to dial it back but then they have to increase their tolerance to be able to handle more stress and that would be the same thing with anything that they're dealing with and work life or whatever you can always pull the stressor away but you're you're living a very [ __ ] naive life to think that it other stressors aren't going to take its Place

because they're always there so as a coach when you're dealing with all these different aspects nutrition may be a little bit different right because if you have foods that are actually stressing you you can pull those away maybe reintroduce them you know in low low quantities right you know to build it back up again but over time the goal is to increase that stress tolerance because if all we're doing is mitigating Mitigating mitigating mitigating then they're going to suck at everything yep you know so how do you keep that facet in mind I mean it's

one of the reasons why people put D loads in the train right is to be able to put it in there to be able to put it back up but bodybuilding training we'll get into it a little bit later is a little bit different than well it's better now it's a little bit different because it used to be so un phasic it Was it was ridiculous right and so that can create just an ongoing increase of volume this has always been an interesting thing if you look over you know 40 50 years you'll see this

ongoing trend of high volume high volume you know th those programs popular popular popular then there's a tilt then it's all low volume right and it's the greatest thing in the world and everybody's like man I had no idea I was Doing so much [ __ ] then I started doing this other thing and I just got way everything grew like crazy and then you'll see that come back up that pendulum will swing and um to the other direction because they just become so accustomed you know to what they're doing but I can say but

I can also preempt this by saying I don't pay as much attention to this as I used to before I haven't seen that pen I've seen it try like we kind of saw the Menor Stuff try to come back 6 months ago but it didn't last very long so I think that we've killed that high volume low volume pendulum with the number of people putting educational content out there with that but to get back to the original question is how do you kind of navigate that because it could be something that they just need to

increase that tolerance but you have issues that you have to deal with IMM imediately to be able to lower that yeah So every when it comes to stress it's all perception it's not elimination yes right like and I always can to use myself as an example is I'm twice as busy and have twice as much stress if you looked at it on paper like if you wrote it down like responsibilities and things and schedule but I'm not more stressed than I was with half the workload so like how do you do that M I think

some of it's just you get used to it you know I think There's just an element of like you know when you it's like uh a great example is I had had a client the other day not calling her out but dropped a weight on her thumb H her thumb it's like can't train for two weeks I'm like why yeah you know what I mean it's like but if you've never been hurt before that might seem like a big deal you know if you have something you've been hurt a bunch of times you have something

major happen you're Immediately thinking all right what what am I going to do tomorrow to to work around this if it's a thumb you like right no big deal whatever yeah it's not a so it's like you're you do become more accustomed to it because you're what used to be a 10 is probably a three now you know because you've you've basically just been acclimated to it so I mean I think that's an element of it but also I think that I think that a lot of it is just understanding that it's going to be

There no matter what and you can't run from it you can't hide from it and you're and the thing I find funny about about bodybuilders and powerlifters and high like high performing people is I tell them like you're GNA do it anyhow why hate it yeah you know it's like you're gonna be you're gonna go home you're probably going to be a you know a parent a spouse you're going to go to work I'm like you're not a loser so I'm like why hate it I mean because your Other options just quit but I know

you're not going to do that yeah you know what I mean it's like you're going to show up it's like we got to change your attitude about what you're doing is it going to be hard sometimes sure you know are you going to get pissed off sometimes sure but I think that the length of which in which you are pissed off needs to be reduced yeah getting stressed out is one thing but letting it ruin your whole week because you stubbed Your toe is a whole different story so I think that that's kind of what

I found in myself is I still I still have a response to things but it's like I guess that doesn't really matter move on I got other [ __ ] to do well you well the question is will this matter in 5 years right or 10 minutes you know in some cases and so that's I think that's a big thing for people is just that how do i digest that as quick as possible because human beings are programmed there's this Article I send out to a lot of people it's talks about how like human beings

are programmed to we have automatic negative thoughts we're we're presented with a situation first we analyze first with the negatives we go cons to Pros so how can we like maybe maybe flip that a little bit and that will completely change the way that we respond to situations as a hole you do that you get 5% less stress here 10% 10% 10% over time I can take that 10% And push it into your volume push it into your nutrition push it into your cardio and now our work capacity goes up and up and up and

up and up and up yeah so with with the gut health and it falling back with that being the one consistent thing across everybody I'm going to assume what they're looking for is a probiotic you know or something like that so while this is going on and because this is a Long process of controlling or making them aware of the negative stressors because that's probably more the case than anything else is they're stressed but they really don't they're not aware they know they're stressed right but they're not aware to pause and then ask the questions

that we just did like will this matter in 10 minutes right you know will this matter in 5 years is this even anything I can change because it happened 10 years ago and I'm just Freaking out about it now I or or is it something that won't manifest in the future and these are questions you can ask you know to be able to mitigate all that but they're my assumption is they're just going to want to know what supplement to take because if it's training they're going to want to know what the best exercise for

their chest is right you know and there's no real answer that so how do you address that so let's assume we take we've got the Stress thing we've already beat that to death so we kind of uncovered that yeah believe it or not I the what I've really found especially in the last few years and I kind of as I put these pieces together is that one of the biggest things with digestion as a whole is as ironic as it sounds is the nutrition that we have as bodybuilders especially is way too narrow mhm okay

so we when we're looking at microbiome for one the research and we have it but there's so Many trillions of bacteria we don't even know what all the strands are you know it's like we can't you can't possibly do it so I use I use uh certain stool testing and stuff and you can measure and check things but it's still limited I mean it doesn't show everything but when you're eating the same four foods for 5 10 15 years you got chicken beef rice potato maybe and if you're in the offseason you sure aren't even

any vegetables because There's no room in your stomach you know what I mean Vol food volume's too high right so like when we're doing that repetitively our microbial diversity goes Narrows down so we kind of are broken up into two major categories we have like commensal bacteria which is considered you know the good stuff generally and then we have what we would call like uh opportunistic or dis biotic bacteria these are like the bad bugs they're called opportunistic because They'll eat anything they're like raccoons you know they'll go in Dum where where are these settling

we talking the stomach intestines mostly intestinal tract right so we think and the reason for that mainly because of pH environment stomach's really acidic like you don't have too much bacteria lives in there you can get like a h pylori infections for example acid reflux a lot of that stuff's coming from the upper you know upper GI so then how's it get Into the intestines if it's not getting there through the stomach so most of the food the food is actually fermented in the intestines right so the BAC that's in there is once it gets

once the food gets down there cuz so in the stomach it's broken down into like a paste right and then it's emptied down in the intestines and then your body starts feeding on it the bacteria feed on it so really depending on what you put in there will dictate which bugs feed on What and which bugs are able to like repopulate themselves and grow and expand so when you're have a case where we're having like this disbiosis that's kind of like the general blanket term the bad bugs are probably out feeding the good bugs right

so and there and there's there's all kinds of variations to that I mean you may have plenty of good bugs but you just have way too many of the bad ones or you may have none of the good ones and all the bad ones or You may have a normal amount of the bad ones and none of the good ones right so but in any case the ratio is skewed so what those do is when those bad bugs um kind of populate themselves to a high level they produce hydrogen and meth thing gases so when

you do a like if you were to go to a gastro do and they did a sibo like a small intestine bacterial overgrowth test probably wouldn't do it but if you got one that did it's a breath test so You would they would test like how how much of that you're blowing out essentially and that would tell you how much of that's being produced in that intestinal tract right but that's what causes that lower intestinal bloating a lot of people think it's just like food in there but most of these people that have that overgrowth

do they're waking up like that like they haven't they haven't eaten for 8 10 hours and they're waking up and I see it especially in my Clients that are leaner females especially because they have a short these torsos are real small they turn to that side profile right there right in that pelvic area I'm assuming it's not like a like a menstrual cycle thing you know and that it's pretty noticeable because I'll get these people that are like ab ab ab boom it's like blown up with that with those gases right and so I half

the time I can see that I'm Like well I mean I already know what's going on there before we even dig into it so kind kind of going back to the nutrition one of the very first lines of Defense we have is creating more diversity in that diet and um we've been we've been just kind of conditioned over time to eat certain things and then we then it's funny because we went from that then we went for to the like if anyone's been around long enough they went to the If It Fits your Macros just

Like calories in calories out cuz we know that's really what dictates yeah weight loss essentially and then we got back to well that's not good because it's too much processed stuff whatever then we got into now what kind of foods we eat so now we're kind of like in this space where people are trying to understand how to program in foods and for general population it's easy because they're not trying to eat five 6,000 calories 4,000 calories so it's like Healthy balanced diet man we yeah you know I can get if I can get two

to three different types of fruits and veggies in there and sometimes they're not very tolerant of that so you kind of have to introduce it a little slower and assess man we're rocking I mean that's a great base to start with that's not to say that we won't have to do anything else but I've got a good base to start diversifying that bacteria so it's slowly introducing other Foods back sort Of if somebody was to have food allergy test or whatever if if they had to go on an Elimination Diet because they're did one of

those tests and they're allergic like to 8,000 different things right and then you slowly would so it's the same kind of philosophy there where you're going to slowly add back different foods so you know what's the culprit the tricky part I think the tricky part about this is what we're Seeing now is since there's so many people talking about this stuff that people are doing these mination type diets for too long periods of time and so now we're just creating the same issue again so they're like I'm going to do a Elimination Diet or I'm

going to do a paleo diet or I'm going to do a keto diet or I'm going to do a you know whatever insert whatever you want or low FODMAP diet you know to reduce fermentation because that will reduce The amount of you know bacteria that's fed and they get symptom relief from it right then they get to me and they're like I've been doing this for two years and I'm like so you don't have overgrowth anymore because you weren't feeding it but now you just don't have anything you know you just wiped everything out so

it's like you can't stay on any of those for extended periods of time like none of them are are long-term solutions that can provide Symptom relief but we have to get to a point where we have that diversity in the diet and it doesn't you know there's a lot of different opinions on this um I'm not someone that thinks that it's like everything you eat has to be like organic and you know whatever it's like if you want to do that great I'm all about food quality especially if you can fund it cool I understand

some people can't yeah and and that's no problem but we do have to get to a point where we Like you shouldn't be it shouldn't be a case where you can't eat blueberries you know what I mean like like we got a problem and I always know that when they come in and they're like I can't eat and they name off like 10 things I like you're not allergic to chicken probably not yeah it's the reason that you have all of these food allergies is the fact that you have an underlying GI issue to begin

with right there's no reason because people that have food Allergies have allergies like if you have a peanut allergy you're going to go in anaphylactic you're like EpiPen like that's a whole different you know you have celiac disease like these are life-threatening issues most of our food allergies are just like underlying you know gastrointestinal issues so like I said kind of going back just building that base of varieties is step one well when you when you look at that hierar hierarchy for lack of a better word so You'll I know a lot of people that

have had you know the food testing done with you know whatever was trending eight years ago you know and it comes back with this huge list and so that's one marker blood work can be another marker where one of the questions I've always had with blood work is if your your gut and your intestines are not actually digesting and ass simulating the micronutrients the way that they should then the blood Work the things that are off in the blood work may not actually be off in the blood work granted they are but they're not causation

right you know so would the gut health be higher in that hierarchy you know than the blood work for what we're speaking about because obviously if there's other symptoms or other issues blood work is going to be a gold standard there yeah so there's so there's a couple things there like what tests like what testing Can you use and how would it reflect in your testing so if we're thinking like let's say person comes in common scenario they have some type of bacterial overgrowth see it all the time like what would that actually do to

your blood work you know what would you look for and there could be it could be a variety of things but stuff you're going to see potentially with be like white blood cell markers you know you could see if you have a really really Prominent overgrowth you might see like um elevation in your nutrifil or elevation eosinophils or or even some of those being low and that would indicate suppressed immune function or or that the white blood cells are actively attacking something right so that could be an indication inflammatory markers you know because we test

things like uh C reactive protein and there's ESR and there's a couple different ones and a lot of those are usually associated with Like cardiac you know like cardiac markers but I'm seeing these things in absence of any of any cardiac issues whatsoever it's like systemic inflammation from the gut so we may see those be off hormones are a big one especially in women so one that I'm commonly seeing is like extremely elevated estrogen levels because estrogen is interesting because it they produce it from the ovaries m aromatize it from testosterone right but we have

To excrete hormones right we have to get rid of them so if we're not they can recirculate back into the body and those levels stay elevated so we have in the one of the GI map tests I can talk about that it's like a stool test one of the things that measures is a marker called beta glucuronidase it's kind of an enzyme that shows this detox right so we're getting a lot of these females and even men that are not detoxing this stuff so they're they're having like Guys are like pounding AIS and stuff on

you know 150 milligrams of of on trt because they e because they estrogen's so elevated I'm like well it's because you're not detoxing anything you know it's like there's no we all aromatize a little differently how much body fat you have and genetic genetics and all that stuff but I'm like your your estrad is not 150 on that dose you know like you're not detoxing and it's all coming back in the body or I'm seeing these Women with estradi of like 500 on there right and it's screwing up their menstrual cycles so what do they

do they go to the doctor doctor tries to throw them on birth control whatever it's like lo and behold they actually have gut issues so like that can manifest on the blood work um I mean there's other things you can see definitely nutrient deficiencies like looking in the CBC like in the red blood cells so there's like uh alkaline phosphatase we have Zinc and magnesium deficiencies we can see the CBC would have like your red blood cells but also have the size of the red blood cells and it would kind of indicate like B vitamins

and iron status and things like that those can easily be off and it's always a dead giveaway when I have guys like that I'm like you don't have an iron deficiency I mean you're eating 250 grams animal protein every day like you don't yeah like there's no way that you're deficient in vitamin B12 And iron at least from a intake standpoint it's so they're not absorbing it right so you see stuff like that it's blatantly obvious that we have we some kind of absorption issues like a lot of that stuff can manifest in the blood

work so so the blood work could then be that higher hierarchy you know to delve down into this yeah thyro especially if it's not symptomatic right thyroid would be another one even seeing like issues with like your T4 to T3 conversion you Know that that would manifest from GI issues so and the reason I like blood work first is because it just gives me a lot of other stuff too you know I can run these GI Maps in the test and like it's like a $400 test you know not everyone's ready to to dish that

out especially when they got to pay me and they got to buy the supplements and do all the other stuff so but with blood work I can at least get a pretty good idea and then I can match that up with The symptoms that they have and I can also get an idea of their hormones and their thyroid and you know whatever blood glucose insulin levels like I can see all that stuff so I think blood work is probably the most bang for your buck there and just because it's just giving us a broader yeah

Outlook speaking of the blood work I should shout out one of our sponsors mer Health you know so the link is in the description we have two panels up there um there's the full Panel which we'll talk a little bit more about blood work here to kind of explain the difference between what people actually should be doing and what they actually are doing or what doctors are having them do which which is I'm I'm speechless you know so they just kind of leave it with that but anyhow the link is in the description you get

10% off your first order the panels are there that we have and they've been vetted out with pretty much Everything every guest I've ever sat with talks about blood work the full panels cover and everything that everybody says they have professionals there that can help and been a sponsor of the podcast since we brought it back up so with that in mind with the blood work the um the reason why I've been fortunate is yourself because Dr sorrano has been my doctor since like 1990 or something like that so the year I was born yeah

yeah so I didn't I never Really knew that it was a big that it was as big of an issue than people would tell me because I really never had that I was competing and he was trying to help me mitigate which I wasn't very compliant at that time but trying you know later in time it meant a little bit more because mitigating became more of an issue right than what it was when I was younger but what I hear even today from people just blows my mind is a they can't get the Blood work

you know or if they get the blood work it's just basically a cholesterol screen and that's it y or or or or or I mean I can just keep going down the down the line with all this kind of stuff now on the other side with you know all these trt clinics I call them hair test Club for Men yeah you know that are popping up everywhere I don't even know if they're even doing blood work half the time it's just like here's your test here's your AI to your Point you know 150 milligrams of

test in a butload of AI and here's your HCG or whatever the [ __ ] else they can be able to put on there and that I don't want to say it's worse than Black Market but it's it's it's an issue because a lot of people will think that's what this is supposed to look like because they don't know any different and then at some point they get a hold of a a coach that knows what they're talking about and You're not a doctor you can't prescribe and all that but you can educate yeah right

and then when they speak to somebody that really knows what they're doing then they realize I don't want to say scammed but it's kind of a fraud you know lot of these clinics with what they're doing because obviously they don't have that person's health in mind because they're not doing Mone exactly yeah they're making money and now they may be good For sourcing you know so I mean having a legal script yeah I mean that that has value but having somebody that knows what they're doing to be able to walk through these indicators kind of

like what you were doing earlier is you know is this gut health is this some other Factor you know is you know if you're eating all the meat then obviously iron and bees should be high right you know and I'm not sure a lot of these clinics have professionals that even go that far They'll just look for the red lines and say okay this is off your be's off so here's a multi here's a B vitamin iron's off here's an now the question I would have with that is when they go down that route doesn't

even go up with the supplementation because it's probably not going to be absorbed because because something stopping that absorption to begin with or if vitamin D is kind of another interesting one you know where you can have people Taken what's the typical dose 10,000,000 80,000 right and it won't go up right it's like well maybe you know what I'm saying I'm just I'm just hypothesizing here but maybe there's something disruptive you know something that's causing that to not go up right cuz one 10,000 should probably do the job for sure so yeah so you know

I uh I've been lucky enough to talk to some of like couple people that own these clinics and Um and uh one Clinic I work with a lot and then also there's another lady that um I helped her with a lot of Education before she started her clinic and stuff and it's it's the difference so you know when you're looking at like our typical going to your physician one they don't know cuz they're just not educated on it I mean that's just even if they want to know even if they want to try they just

don't you mean Eric's great because Eric has probably self-educated himself over The years and two they're tied down by Insurance you know they're like they're reactive instead of proactive you know it's like they can't which Eric doesn't take that either right exactly so it's like a great you know you hurt yourself they're like well you got to do all this physical therapy before we give you an MRI it's like well why you know but their hands are tied on a lot of this stuff so like when you're going in and getting a blood panel like

you said you Might get the CBC and you get your renal markers checked maybe in your cholesterol panel they're not going to check your hormones they're not going to do any of the stuff and if they do they're using these obscenely huge ranges that are like like my doctor for example he's like well you're one point in range I'm like dude I'm 20 years old you know like I should be I should be walking around looking at anything and just being aroused you know it's like What's this is not okay and um but then you

go to the other side which is the clinics and they they have the power to prescribe but what I've noticed and and I'm not mentioning anyone specifically is a lot of them they'll have an owner and they have a prescribing either it's generally either an NP like a nurse practitioner and I and I'm I'm assuming they probably use MPS a lot just because they can pay them less than than uh MDS but um they'll Have that they'll have a prescriber but it's very disconnected you know what I mean they'll have like they'll have like the

company that the compounding pharmacy you know what I mean they're trying to make money off them and they got to deal with them and they're doing this thing and then they've got the prescriber who's kind of like disconnected from the thing and they're just like well this person's got this give them this without any real without Any real effort to look at those other areas and like you said you start giving them these things and some of the some of the better ones might suggest the nutrients and the other things but to your point that

doesn't fix I mean it still doesn't fix it's better than nothing but it really doesn't fix any of the underlying issues um so it's unfortunately it's like maybe that's I don't know if that's better than going to your physician I feel like it Probably is in some cases in some cases yeah but I feel like there's probably a lot of downsides there too and um unfortunately people get like overprescribed for example like I'm getting these women coming in you get this 50 old woman that's not a competitor or anything and she's getting prescribed you know

test replacement and she comes in her test is like 500 NRS for dleer I'm like oh my God like she goes M I've been having a lot of hair Growth and acne and my voice is changing I'm like whoa this is not okay I said do you know what a mail range is I'm like mail range is like eight or 900 thousand maybe on the high end I said you should be like a hundred or less and she's like why are they doing this to me you know so it's like I don't know man I

don't know where the I don't know what the answer exactly is I think that it's you had mentioned it earlier and the best thing I can do is just educate People as much as possible so they're equipped with the right questions and the right knowledge when they go into because you have to be proactive with your health when you're going in there and you have to kind of advocate for yourself you you have to push them sometimes they'll do a little bit more if you push them to do it maybe you have to get a

new doctor I don't know yeah what would my question is going to be what would be some of those questions But before I get to that question what I've seen with myself and with with others is when you are advocating and you are actually asking good questions your your doctor that you may think is not a very good doctor becomes a very good doctor because you got to put yourself in their position especially say you're a personal trainer and and one day you have 10 clients and nine of those clients really don't even want to

be There they're there because their doctor said they have to be there all they really want to do is walking the treadmill it's just a pain in the ass and one does you know and if you have that over a period of two years you're going to form this bias you know that most people just don't give a [ __ ] so here's my you know template of just basic [ __ ] to be able to have them do because they're not going to commit Beyond a level two and this works for The level too

and it's all fine I think the Physicians are that way too you know most of the people are coming in they really don't want to hear lifestyle Health advice because they they're not going to do it they don't care about it they just want whatever pill to be able to fix that then over a period of time that's 90% of who they see until they have that one person that then asks a question to where they're like think again put yourself as that Trainer now you get that one client you're like holy [ __ ]

this is want to work with this person you know what I'm saying this it makes your whole day you know when that person comes in because they give a [ __ ] they're going to work hard they care they're going to follow the advice and they're going to challenge where your intellect is and maybe create an environment to where you have to learn more right I'm making a broad assumption that most Physicians Are probably that way too yeah I would I would think most of them are and then you get the small percentage that their

ego doesn't allow them to do you know they're like how dare you ask you know how dare you challenge my well sometimes what I found is with I'm I'm that person is if it's if it's a specialist you'll run into that a lot right so what I've secret that I've kind of learned is I wait until it's just myself and the specialist without Any um grad assistants or interns or anybody else that's in there then I'll pose the question then there's no you know what I'm saying where if there's if he has those other people

around then you pose a question I think hypothesizing you know being a fake psychologist here that there's a there's a threat in some way to where they're like you're questioning my authority and you're doing it in front of these people right you know and I've had success with that you know so once you claar them and you're like can you explain to me exactly what you mean by I should never lift 40 pounds again right you know and you would give that same suggestion to somebody who's a 60y old grandma like why why 40 pounds

why not 30 you know but it's it's framed a little bit better like what are we trying to avoid here you know is it a vola maneuver is a blood pressure is it you know X Y or Z and then it's that That's there but when there's an audience it's not going to happen it's like a it's like a off the off the record conversation you know you you definitely and I find that with a lot of experts you know what I mean especially when you're in front of a crowd or doing something it's and

it's difficult too because if they're if they're talking and they have the interns in there they got the grad students you're also talking in generalities a lot too yes You know what I mean versus getting very specific and kind of like looking at the context of somebody's case um so what would be the questions that people should be thinking of when they're going in you know to see a physician for longevity I don't that's another word that's really weird to me as well like what the hell does that even mean right you know we can

all die for whatever reason just out of the right it's another ill defined word but for Discussion sake you know if they're going in for that what are some of the questions that they should be thinking about so I think the first thing is understanding understanding who they are as a demographic and what their risks or potential issues might be because my questions of myself might be different than you know my 40-year-old mom going in so I should understand like am I more concerned about hormones or gastrointestinal health or what is it And then we

can start posing the questions so I think that first and foremost is just knowing what your symptoms are and what they might be correlated to because you're not going to get the the blood work that you want and the things that you want if you don't know what you're actually asking for well let let me pause you with that one because getting back to the gut health a lot of people won't even register that that's a symptom for them They that morning you know they may have you know blown ass like it's coming out of

a garden house right and then asked four hours later you know how's your digestion it's it's good right so it's with what you're saying in mind what I would put out there to people is really think about that first like what just across the board what are you taking for granted that could be Abnormal that you knows abnormal when you're doing it like when you're you know splattering the toilet in the morning four times before you leave the house right they it's the uh this is normal for me I'm like no it's not normal for

anyone so even just having an honest even just having an honest uh just kind of symptom assessment of yourself and just like what is my day look like from Top like am I fatigued when what do I feel am I going to the Bathroom every day is it formed you know like does it resemble something that is formed is it liquid you know like looking at basic stuff am I am I getting signs of you know high blood pressure all the time am I getting headaches a lot am I having um symptoms that might resemble

like allergies or skin or things like that so I would I would say you have having an honest conversation with yourself and kind of just maybe even writing a list before you go in Because if you're just kind of put on the spot you're likely going to answer whatever you perceive as normal because you're used to it and I will say that that is about the worst thing you can do because I've once I've actually if I just like for example if I gave someone a questionnaire as a new client and I left out those

things they wouldn't tell them to me yeah they just wouldn't tell me but when I start asking the questions they're like oh okay that makes sense You know I'm going through these questions and they're starting to uncover all these things that they've been essentially ignoring over and over and time and time again and um you'd be surprised what you know you'd be surprised what they could find I find out that they haven't you know they haven't gone to the bathroom in three days mhm they're like well I never go to the bathroom for 3 days

I'm like that's problematic you know that's problematic And but even then like even if you ask all those questions unfortunately you're still may fall short in terms of the care that you've received but luckily we there are people you know we have people like myself and other people that can help now I think the difficult and this may be a good conversation for us I think the difficult part of this is we are there's a barrage of information right now so like we are so overwhelmed and You said it earlier take a probiotic for digestion

like do you have this symptom and this symptom and this symptom you should take whatever dude it's insane like you you open up the internet and you're going to think you you're going to think that you have testicular cancer you know what I mean it's like Well everybody's subjected to that too because if I'm scrolling through Instagram at least once a day you know and I'm not On there as much as people would think but at least once a day I'm going to see some [ __ ] that's like an entrepreneur thing or some AI

type of thing and it's a slider post and it will stop and I'll look through there and I'll think oh [ __ ] you know this then you you pause and you're like no this is [ __ ] you know this guy's not making 30,000 a month because of this stupid AI digital ebook thing or whatever it is you know and so the way that I've always thought About that is if it's stopping me for a second and I kind of know better on most most of these things then it's definitely stopping everybody else and

one and we'll definitely go down this rabbit hole but before that one thing that I've changed with my own blood panels over the last two years is because your blood work is still just a marker in a space and time right right it can be different two days ler 3 days Later for sure is I don't know how this came to me but one day it's if I if I ever need to take my weight up or down and I have to track my macros I don't even make any attempt on what I'm doing with

that until I track it for a week you know so my calorie king or whatever the [ __ ] I use just don't change it you every maybe they don't know this so I'll spell it out right so if you track all your Macros for a week and you don't change anything and the Trick here is don't change the [ __ ] and you're going to most people probably do you can side with me on this if you found this to be true as soon as they start tracking things they start eating a little bit

cleaner right right so you can't do that and then you'll get an idea of what your normal calorie intake is can adjust from there so I took that same philosophy and I'm like okay I'm going to track everything I do for a week before the blood work like so what How many times in the morning am I taking a [ __ ] you know it's what is my stress level work-wise you know what is the train I try to get as much information as I can for that week leading into that because what happens and

I get my blood work before I see the physician I learn I don't like the other way you go in and you have the conversation they take the blood work and they call you on the phone and say this is [ __ ] up this is [ __ ] up no I Want it first and then I'll go in but not only can I go in then when they ask what have you been doing differently I can say why can't give you the whole past three months but here's the things that we're leading into that

week and a lot of those stressors will can open conversations right like well is this normal well it was for that week so I'm gonna assume it but anyhow that that helps with that and it's not that hard to do I mean we all Have notepads on our phone yeah you just jot down I was pissed off eight times today you know and is that good or bad well after seven days you're going to know right well it's normal or actually it's higher than normal and that can express itself in cortisol a lot of different

things it can express itself on yeah it's uh and and I'm sure you would agree with this when you do something long enough all coaching is pattern recognition right yeah it's like How do you people talk about I coach intuitively I'm like no you coach you're intuitive because you recognized patterns because you've done it 9,000 times and that's where that's what all of that is is like when you're looking at a situation is like is is recognizing patterns but there's not really a way you might be able to recognize a a certain um pattern in

someone that because you've seen it in other people but you don't really have a Good Baseline on them until they get that weak food log until they get that weak symptom assessment till they've checked in four five six seven times so it's like and people because again people are inundated with all this information and I start them on you know I start them on something I'm like I need you to not touch anything I need you to report honest I need you to just not worry about any of this stuff let me look at it

like Give me give me some check-ins let me see what's you know what's affecting you I can point out things like stress triggers that may be causing digestive distress they're like well I'm you know I'm having loose toools or I'm really bloated and then I just come to realize that the only times that they're bloated is when they're stressed out I'm like okay we got a stress issue we may not even have any I may not need to have you spend $400 on this test over here so That's why having that that Baseline for people

is so important because we're I know in in my industry like people are so quick to jump to like doing all these things when we've got youed mentioned low hanging fruit earlier it's like we've got all this other all this other stuff and I can basically tell you XYZ that's already affecting you so why don't we start there before we start spending all this money and all this time and freaking out about yeah you Know all these things well the way I've always seen it is if you're not a flat earther right we we have

the Earth then we have an atmosphere that goes around the earth right and that atmosphere compared to the earth let's just say it's margins right everything that these people are seeing on social media or on these reals or these slide poost or whatever it is it's always [ __ ] in the margins yep always right diet soda I Mean we can just go through a list of a hundred different things but what doesn't sell and what doesn't get clicks and what doesn't stop the scroll is the main [ __ ] yep you know and that's

you know a message that everybody's been driving trying to drive home for the longest period of time and I think that a lot of coaches will avoid really speaking about a lot of those things because they don't think it has the glitz and it's going to stop the Scroll and all this other kind of stuff or they think that it's just overplayed everybody's been saying these things for decades but what they forget is while that is true you haven't been saying anything you know for decades and the changing the messenger can change everything I'm sure

you know this with clients that have worked with other people that come to you and you may be telling them exactly the same thing somebody else did But now they're compliant or clients you may have had to go to somebody else and vice versa it's just how the message is being communicated it's like you can you can teach anyone anything if you know how to relay the information yes right there's everyone learns differently everyone understands differently you can't speak to people the same way um and that is a lot of the stuff I talk about

online I would tell you when I first started learning about a lot of This stuff I spoke a lot more in technicalities but over time I've simplified I think everybody does that the way that I speak I used to make fun of that criticize that a little bit but it's kind of like a it's kind of like a bell curve you know when you when you're in school and you're first learning this stuff you're you know reading muscle and fitness and all this other stuff and if you're really inspired maybe you bought some books right

then you learn all the Weeder principles and you know five meals a day or whatever the [ __ ] was and you start kind of working your way up this educational curve right and for a while you're like man I kind of know my [ __ ] but then you start learning bigger words yep you know and usually in the training sphere it's they start learning words associated with biomechanics and physical therapy so then they're narrative changes how they speak changes and they kind of go up that curve and You can I can plot where

people are on this thing by the way and then they get to the top right then they think they know everything like they can solve everything and then you stay up there not that they are at the top but they're perceived perception is there at the top yes big words you know expert in the field you know da da da da and then they get exposed to more and more people because as you become more educated thus does your sources of Education that You're looking toward then you start finding people like oh my God you

know there's no way right I can you know then you have impostor syndrome yep right because it's but they're all specialist in that thing eventually they kind of make their way back down the other side of the curve to the where they're like man I don't I don't know a [ __ ] thing y you know it's right and everybody kind of does that now how high they go before they start to Realize my audience is really the most important thing not how I present myself but the message is are being received there's uh and

from a business aspect I think it's interesting because I uh so one of the things I do in my business is I I educate a lot of coaches too so that's like a large part of my business and one of the things we talk about is like who are you talking to and who are you trying to attract because I can say big words with the best of them mhm What kind of client is that going to bring in and if it does bring them in what kind of preconceived bias are they going to have

when they come in like what are they going to expect from me that's what they're going to want you know they're going to want the thing they're going to want this thing they're going to want the big word they're going to want the exercise or the biomechanic tweak or the supplement I don't want that right because I know that there's Probably a lot of foundational things that are going to be very basic and they're not even going to want to listen to me when I start talking to them so I think it is important to

be careful how you talk and while it might take a little more time to build a business on that type of theory or that premise I think it will attract better more quality people that are more willing to listen to what you're talking about and you're going to deal less with like Really you know deal a little bit less with the crazy neurotic people and you might even get some of those people to change their tune over time and they realize like there's can be a lot of Simplicity in this complex you know in these

complex topics so do think it's important that's always been myo is like I don't want to get caught up in talking like that and and attracting those people because social media now it's like the more sensationalistic you are Yeah the more you know the more hits you're getting but you can't coach those people like they don't listen they they don't produce results they don't do anything for your business they're hard to work with you know it's like you're going to spend 95% of your time on 5% of these clients that you that you're going to

get their monthly payment for a few months and they're going to drop off cuz why they're going to go to the next guy that has the bit the other big words Because you're not giving them what they want I don't I don't want that well the other thing that happens with that as well is they're going to be the least likely people to ever give you a referral sure because in in their world if they refer somebody else to somebody they think that that means that that person they referred is better than what they are

yep and they're not going To do that yeah you know so from a business perspective it sucks from so many different areas that from a client perspective you know from an education perspective might be different yeah right because those might be that market for educational content that's a webinar or something like that you know so that's a little different it's interesting because I've I'm in a spot now where I like when we talk when I talk to the coaches about that I'm like You have to understand your audience and who you're talking to because a

lot of them I'm like all you're doing is talking to other coaches like these people these are cool words and they sound catchy but they don't understand what you're saying it's like all you're doing is talking to the other people that can understand the verbiage that you're using but it's been difficult for me because I have to talk to both I have to talk to like both audiences when I'm You know when I put out content or talk or get on a podcast and stuff so it's like well where's the middle ground there you know

so I have to do a little I have to wear like both hats and do both but I think it depends on the platform you know like if I'm at a seminar speaking at a seminar it's probably all coaches right everyone there is probably has clients so I'm going to maybe talk a little bit differently then if I'm on a podcast you Know if I did one a couple weeks ago and she's like hey our demographic is uh all non-competitor general population women I'm like okay tone tone the volume down you know or so there's

levels in terms of like what kind of language we're using and what how we're presenting ourselves and I think that's super important understand when you're putting out content because people just want people just want like the biggest words the fanciest the most sensationalistic And I'm like but clicks aside views aside who is that actually talking to I can post a picture of my cat and get oh yeah you know stupid likes does that do anything for Roi in my business no I mean it might put me out in the algorithm a little bit but doesn't

do anything for me right ultimately so I think that people kind of mistake like popularity and visibility with what's actually helping them because at the end of the day if you're not getting if You've been around more than five years and 80% of your business isn't referral you suck yeah well the the other part of that is in a way that's kind of insulting the intelligence of the people would understand the bigger words because if they can understand the bigger words then they're going to understand the generalities that you're speaking in right and if they

know the bigger words and you know the bigger words they You're probably not going to teach them a whole lot right about what that is what they want to know is your take on it like how do you address a b and c application for sure the application of all that so it's not like they're going to be there and oh this guy's well they shouldn't be there and say look this guy's an idiot but there's always going to be those people that are going to say that just because they want to you know make

themselves look better Than somebody else but those people aside most of them just want to know how do you address this problem right right and if if it's answered and now the third grade level becomes a little weird for me especially with gpts now because I can take stuff and say right this is a third grade level and I'm like I don't know if this is really yeah back maybe we got to go like eighth grade you know from because that maybe it is true I'm just not very acceptive Of that because it's like you

know the cat wore a hat walked down the street you know it's just very too simple you know to put it out there and I don't think that in the realm that we kind of all operate in that we're dealing with that demographic sure yeah so there's again like finding that yeah finding that middle ground can be difficult um and some people and some people are and I tell you just with having worked with coaches over the years like you can Memorize anything you know like I I've got protocols out the Wazoo for all kinds

of stuff but doesn't mean you can apply anything because if it was I would just write an ebook or I would just create an app that was like symptoms boom boom boom spit it out and I'd be done I wouldn't even be sitting here I'd just be out somewhere you know but it doesn't it doesn't work like that you know it's funny because we're I was talking to a coach yesterday about Ai And stuff and I was like well the the further we get into this coaching space the more people are actually having to like

coach individuals as individuals and we're getting further and further away from automation interestingly enough yes right and that's the only way they're going to make it yeah like so you can't you can't think of it in terms of automation I said if your model is just a if you want to write an ebook and you want to do stuff like that and and Use that quantity model it can be a good passive income to help supplement people like I have classes and things that there's in a Marketplace you know you buy them but if you

want the full application you want to know how it applies to each individual you got to go to the source right you got to learn how to work with people because I can give you protocol for intest you know small intestine bacterial overgrowth but you might have 10 Different people that present in 10 different ways that have 10 different lives and are different genders and different ages and it's like we're going to have to adjust so um memorizing I can teach a protocol to a Junior High student if they look at it enough they're going

to memorize it and write it down they just copy and paste it and put it on their notes on their phone doesn't mean they can coach anyone like the days of doing That are yeah there's there's way more to it where asked a couple weeks ago to create an ebook for like a lead magnet you know just like a conjugate get template I'm like okay whatever that will be easy until I actually started to like really think this through right it's like and you know if it was to be you know because I looked at

okay now if this was to be an app you know I need to know you know What phas is this going to fall into and then what day is this and then how do you feel before you actually came in do you need the warmup do you not need the warm up and if you you know this is then you need to do and it's like oh my God you know what the hell did I get myself into where I mean the default is the basic template's a basic template and that might apply for 50%

of the demographic that's never done anything like that before maybe right you know But then there's that other 50% that's this is [ __ ] this doesn't work you know so it's they and I am using AI to be able to kind of help you build this whole thing out but the realization that I've come to is that there's so much especially if you've been doing this for over a decade there's so many things that you're processing throughout a conversation to be able to determine where this kind of goes from step one step two and

that's before you're even Move from one week to the next week to the next week that's just the initial start right of the whole thing y it's uh it depends yeah yeah yeah it's uh because I always tell people they come in because I you know since I do a lot in education they ask me about my services and I kind of give them the breakdown and they're and I get asked it's like well you have all these classes on these things so why would I want to purchase this oneon-one Option that costs 10 times

as much I said hey these classes are great I I will say that these classes I basically put together so you it's going to apply to the largest amount of people I can possibly Encompass in a set template yeah right and a set template of me talking for two hours cool nothing wrong with it but if you want to actually understand on a high level how to apply to everyone no matter who walks through your door and you want to be able to do It quickly and efficiently and confidently you need to come here right

so because I think that um and what I tell them is I I was like do you understand like one of the one of the biggest limiting factors on your business is the fact that you can't help somebody that comes through the door I said what would it be like if you and and it's not to say that you shouldn't refer people out don't don't work out of your scope don't uh you know especially If you're newer don't get in over your head on stuff don't have such an ego that you can't refer people out

but I'm like what would it be like if you could everyone that came in or almost everyone that came in you could accept them and you could help them I'm like that'd be a pretty good be a pretty good business model and it might require a team you know you might have to have some other people on your team to Outsource like you have the clinic or I have other Coaches on my team team and my company and we can all do a lot of the same things but also some different things so it's like

I wanted to build something where I could just be like no matter who walks in the door it's G to be me her him or him and we we've got you covered and we have these resources and we're able to do it ebook won't do that a template won't do that you can get pretty far I think it's I think everyone should do that everyone should Understand biomechanics everyone should understand physiology and stuff but well I think as a coach the process putting those materials together is part of your educational process so even if it

doesn't sell one copy you had to take your thoughts and put it together in some kind of rational way which is going to make you better understand and also see where your weak points may be that need to be brought up so it's from that side you know monetization as side for Sure that is worth more than what the monetization would be yeah practi yeah practice it's like uh looking in a mirror you know you do I I like I like being challenge you know it's like I was talking to talking to my girlfriend the

other day and we're talking about how when you're when you're uh an authority figure and like you know for me so I got all these coaches that ask me for advice and I got the team and I got the clients like who Do I report to yeah I report to her right and I have I take I take feedback back from her and I trust that she's going to give me good feedback and because everyone needs everyone needs that because we have gaps and we have blind spots and so we have to have that somewhere

and sometimes writing stuff out like you said and even writing that process you're like ah that could be better but I wouldn't have known that yes until I saw it until I saw it on Paper yeah you know so I think that's a great great point I got used to restroom real quick then we'll come back and get into some training stuff okay Summer's here and so is the heat I've spent most most my life training in unconditioned gyms and I know most you that are training in garage gyms private gyms black Iron gyms know

what I'm talking about when I say the Heat sucks it kills your motivation to go to the gym it kills your performance but it doesn't Have to if you keep your electrolytes up that's why today's episode is sponsored by element element is a tasty electrolyte drink with everything you need and nothing you don't this means lots of salt with of the junk no sugar no colors no artificial ingredients no gluten no fillers no BS it contains an electrolyte ratio of 1,000 Mig of sodium 200 milligram of pottassium and 60 milligrams of magnesium element can help

prevent and eliminate headaches muscle Cramps fatigue brain fog sleeplessness and other common symptoms associated with electrolyte deficiency right now element is offering a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase get yours at drink element.com this deal is only available through the taable talk link [Music] [Music] [Music] I want to get into how your training Philosophy has changed which I mean coming from a wrestling background I kind of know where it started and let's stay in the hypertrophy realm and the reason why I want to stay in that realm is when I have people that

work with bodybuilders or health Functional Health whatever it is a lot of my demographic are going to be strength athletes and they're going to be set on however they're programming their strength phases the hypertrophy Phase is where things kind of fall apart the other place where Things Fall Apart is I like to class classify most strength athletes as being strength athletes that live gen pop Lifestyles okay right so earlier you were speaking about you know some of the coaches that will get into the space kind of staying in their Lane and stuff like that to

where there's a lot of health coaches it's a shitty word I mean It's a shitty there needs to be a better title for that right you know what I'm saying because it's just kind of a stupid title but that work in that space but then they don't think that working with you know a strength athlete be it strong man you know weightlifting or powerlifting was kind of like in their wheelhouse I'm like it's more in your wheelhouse than what you think it is you know let them take care of that aspect of the training but

then talk to them About sleep hygiene nutrition all these other things because most of them that I've ever known the large percentage live a genp poop lifestyle just eating more food right so they're they're more them covering their nutritional basis but with 3,000 more calories than what they should right right which can create all these other issues so from the hypertrophy standpoint coming from a wrestling background I'm going to make an assumption here that the work Capacity is high at least your mental your mental processing of work capacity is is high right so and one

of the podcasts that I listen to you on when you're in one of your preps it was like ridiculous it like two hours a cardio day then high-intensity interval training session with that plus the regular training which screams to me this is somebody coming from a wrestling background you know but it also could be the situation that you ended up in just As you diet it down for that show right so when you work with your clients that would be intermediate or above you know do you work with them on the actual training aspect yes

okay yeah most people I prefer it I I like to have you know be able to sync all the variables together as much as possible I mean I have some people that Outsource some of that stuff as long as I know that person um I do work with some powerlifters um actually work with uh do you know the Masons Nicole has been a client of mine for a long time so like I have some good strength athletes that I work with but they handle you know programming mhm like you said it's like it's funny with

strength athletes it's like man the the amount of progress they can make with better sleep hygiene and improving digestion and stuff like it's ridiculous blowing up their totals and I'm not touching anything in training um but in hyperopes I love that you cited my my Prep because I think that that would that's an extreme example where I've always been someone that has to beat myself to death to get in the condition you know to compete and um but ironically enough I'm very much I'm very much a person that's like get the most out of the

you know get the most out of the least with the clients because I always want some Runway to work with and and training is no different is we we always progression is The name of training whether that's volume or load or intensity it's like there has to be a stimulus to create adaptation you know so if we if we just throw someone in there at whatever their maximum recoverable volume if you want to use those terms and we do all those things right out of the gate and all these intensifiers it's like we might run

out of Runway pretty quick we might have to Del load in three weeks or something it's like that's kind of it's A pretty short it's going to give us a pretty short window to grow with it would be like coming in and you know blasting to the Moon your first time out of the gates like where do we go from there yeah right um now I think the I think where things get very tricky is we did a couple podcast recently another guy from the UK that I podcast with and we had a doctor on

you know guy that's versed in the research and stuff And where are where it gets hard from a research standpoint is the fact that everything is well it lay laac control first and intensity varies so much from person to person even when you're using things like even when you um even when you assign intensity like RP dude my RP of 10 versus someone else's RP of 10 is going to be different like you better you better have a stretcher ready yeah you know what I mean but someone else I'm like if I just stand behind

you and Don't let you rack the weight you're going to get 10 more reps yeah anchoring it becomes a problem you know so it's like well how do we how do we really assess that so I think that one of the things I have to do is understand what that level is for that person you said intermediate to advance so what I'm going to kind of assume there is that they probably have at least a little bit better idea of what intensity is I hope so we could assume that so I can assume That if

I do assign something that they'll be able to understand what mechanical failure looks like right so we we'll assume that and then I'm going to next thing I'm going to do is just assess their physique you know we're talking about this isn't squat bench and deadlift so it's like you know we have to I have to understand what their weak points are for some people it's like we just need to get bigger all over cool no problem we're going to do a pretty Standard split allocate volume pretty evenly over the week cool good to go

but I'm working with a lot of people that are like National level most of my competitors at this point are pretty much like National MPC level or Pro level trying to be Pro level so that's kind of what my competitor demographic is so they they have probably developed they have a good base they've probably developed muscle but what the more you develop the more those weak points Become evident because the stronger ones get better and the weaker ones don't get that much better you know so they have imbalances they have probably injuries and things that

come up because they have you know weak posterior chain or whatever it might be so now I'm looking at what is the total workload of this person so if we're looking at a basic split now how do I take that total workload and allocate as much as I need to to the weaker areas and as much as I Need to to the stronger areas so how are you defining workload because it's the way that I would Define that sets times reps times weight right so but you may be defining it just the total work that's

being done over that week right so yeah I use it as a broad term so workload would be like how much volume you know it's like how much volume can we handle in a working set throughout the working sets an entire week so like a real General real general term then we Got to break that down further because me unracking if you're strong me unracking a a bar to do a barbell squat requires a lot more CNS fatigue than me sitting in a even a hack squat I mean it's drastically different when you put stabilization

well if they're stronger too there's more warm-up sets to get there 100% so what I've what I've really found over the years is especially with these more advanced people is I have to be a lot more and and we'll get into the Workload thing I have to when I'm setting it up first I have to be a lot more particular with movement selection right out of the gate because one is like some of these guys they're not powerlifters so it doesn't matter like detach from exercises don't care doesn't matter I'm like cool you can deadlift

600 lbs for reps because you're huge awesome but doesn't matter right yeah um so I have to kind of detach them from those movements and I have to a lot of The time get people in stable you know stable braced movements and that doesn't always have to be like doing some squeeze PE te fly know some [ __ ] it's but it might have to be I have to get you off of the barbell squats all the time I have to get you in a hack squat I have to get you in a pendulum Squad

I got to get you in something where we can drive to your quads or glutes or hamstrings or whatever so I kind of have to figure out that first What are the movement selection don't want to get you hurt make sure you're stabilized make sure you're driving the force to the muscle cool we got that established next thing is I'm assessing the physique figure out like where the you know where are the weak body parts at then I have to figure out so with those weak body parts how much CNS fatigue are we going to

create like if your quads are weak and I have to push most of your workload towards your quads That's going to be probably still less sets maybe than it is if your biceps I mean yeah small muscle group yeah I mean I can do all my bicep curls to failure and I'm going to be fine the next day yeah my arms might be sore but if I go in and do 20 sets of quads dude I'm I probably got rabo you know it's like I can't I can't do anything for the next week so and

and unfortunately that volume but exercise selection could play a role There too though right because it could be that heavy thing but then three days later it's something like a leg extension right you know or a [ __ ] squat you know so the frequency if it's trying to bring up a weak point would you have those movements on separate days to still hit the muscle but lower the systemic fatigue for sure so I I I don't want to say I don't like to lump myself into like a certain category but I would say I

probably fall a little More on the side of frequency yeah than I more often than not just because there's caveat so like I just mentioned though and I think that when that's explored most people would fall in that same camp yeah because I think that and the way I kind of think it too is that let's say you were doing 10 working sets for your quads in a week by the time I get the set seven or eight and if in a single session my performance is just garbage but if I can SPL that up

into a Second day I can perform each one of those optimally to high intensity and and get and get the progression in weight and so I do think splitting it up that way may have Merit now one day might be more of our heavy movers might be a hack squat might be a leg press more CNS intensive and another day might be like some more um like a cluster set like a muscle round or you know something like that locked into a machine where I can just drive force to The muscle and I'm not going

to beat you up too bad but I can get all your vol in cool and you can progress on either of those right it's been seen it's been seen before I mean there's no muscle doesn't know too much what you're doing there you know it's it it kind of just relates to are we adding more stimulus to the muscle over time and that's kind of what matters at the end of the day um so I would say in the majority of cases I'm probably splitting it up that way Where I'm my weakest body parts are

probably getting the most frequency right so if we have if we have uh let's say we had 40 40 working sets an entire week I don't know these are just arbitrary numbers and I needed 50% of that to go to the weak body parts they those might be trained over two to three days right whereas if your packs are really good I'm probably going to give them like four working sets on one single day and it's just going to Maintain and I'm not going to worry about it I'm not going to waste I'm not going

to waste my work capacity on that when I know that it's not going to go anywhere MH you know so so that's that's I mean that's kind of the basis of the training and then what would be the runway from each movement so how often will you switch that movement so if it's a hack squat that's being put in there there there's there's optimal then there's reality right so what would be The optimal for you and then what is normally the reality that happens what I find is that some people are really good at eing

out progression for a really long time but what normally happens is it's because they're making mechanical changes in their movement to to do it like you don't know it and unless you maybe see it on a video or something but it's like maybe you're shifting your hips or you're moving around your triceps are coming in on a press more or Something so like they can progress for six months on the same movement but it's just because they're willing themselves to do it and their forms getting yeah is garbage it's a different movement at the end

right so if I assuming that they're locked in and the and the movement pattern is solid we and let's assume it's like offse and calorie Surplus you know they've got all the good stuff going on we might be able to get you know we might be able to get anywhere From two to four months out of a movement if they're pretty sound on their sleep and everything's going well um and assuming I'm not giving them too much we can probably get two to four months out of movement before we need to before we need to

rotate something else out and it also depends on how heavy that movement is like I can't progress on a bicep girl for two to four months like what am I gonna do I mean I can microload M magnet plates I guess on my Dumbbells but like so with the progression is it always weight or are you changing tempos because it's in in some cases with myself and other people that I'd advise I may if I'm trying to get a longer Runway and it's uh compound movements are hard to get long runways with especially if they're

if they know what they're doing I may ask them to go a lower Tempo a slower Tempo just to get a couple more weeks and then before the end then it's you know full Tempo in There um where others will just increase weight um how do you try to look for the progress there's many ways to progress sure which I think the default for most people is it always has to be weight right and so how do you go about that so it's usually going to either be Tempo or even a rep range like we

could progress in a certain rep range let's say we're in a six eight rep range that'd probably be kind of a lower rep range for a bodybuilder and then we can progress in A 12 to 15 rep range you know if we're doing six plates aside if you're big guy you're strong you're doing six plates aside on the hack on the 68 rep range and we kind of top out on that we might be able to restart in the 12 to 15 rep range and we can you know progress on that for a while yeah

I'm going to run out of Runway there somewhere just because next thing we were going to be doing you know I really am not a huge fan of doing like tons and tons of 25 to 35 rappers to failure within a session I like that stuff I think it's good for 4 itude and I think it's fun it is fun it's also really great for systemic fatigue I think it's fun yeah yeah but is it how practical is it to do that like every session all the time probably not would I use things like that

for most recently if I do a clinic I'll have people do something like that just to Anchor effort yeah because when that's over I can say look that was an effort Of 10 you never need a train at a 10 but now when we talk about an eight you know what I'm talking about right and they're like oh [ __ ] you know my four you know used to be I thought my four was an eight right like actually no so from stuff like that that I do think it can help with that anchoring it

can definitely help with your mental health if you're pissed off about something but there's the systemic issue you're going to run into it's funny because I and you Probably don't remember this so I actually came in with uh with John 2012 and I trained with you guys okay and you probably don't remember so I had long sh I had shaggy hair then I was prepping for a show then I was probably like six weeks out it was at the old place and we did you know standard three hour I think I kind of remember three

hour leg workout and uh in hindsight six weeks out this was my hormones were tank before I got on HRT yeah and you had the You had the garage door open in the front we were on the monolift and we were doing squats we had chains or something on there and I just remember coming up in the Reps and I I swore to myself that day I wouldn't give up unless I fell down because I got to go train with you guys right and I remember just coming up in those reps and it was just

and I was anemic too I had no idea come up and it was I couldn't see anything it was just Stars everywhere Speckles couldn't see [ __ ] did like three of those puked in the trash can did the whole thing but you know it's like it's okay to do that sometimes you know and I think that it's we all have to enjoy what we're doing and we all have to test ourselves but doing that all the time yeah see yeah John loved that [ __ ] but the the secret behind all that that people

don't know is that was that was pretty much like a two and a half year to three year process of Increasing the work capacity to that point right to where he just loved the fact that if anybody came in a train they would just die right right and for us and that's where work capacity can become a really strange thing to discuss right because wasn't necessary to have that work capacity that was developed at that time um from a strength athlete standpoint no you know but it's definitely possible you know to develop it if it's

phasically because there were Waves where it would kind of like come up and then you know structure up all through there it wasn't just oh we're just going to do 40 sets of quads or whatever it's going to be but from that bodybuilding perspective and even from from a strength athlete perspective at what point does it really even help anymore right especially for bodybuilding because you don't need strength endurance because you're going to pull a deadlift four hours or five Hours after your heavy squat right where where does that come in um it's fun right

there's no doubt about that but and for for him you know that was John like the volume but not all the time right right which is funny because he'll be characterized as you know the high volume's like the meadow stuff and then the low volume would be like Dante and it's like it's not totally true not true like there was other phases that came in there but when you're if we're speaking About I guess this would be challenge sets like would you integrate those in with your clients to be able to from a psychological perspective

to be able to help anchor that in effort a little bit more for sure and I I think one of the things I found is that sequence and which which I add them into the sessions has changed a lot over the years so for myself personally and for those people that train on that level of intensity I've had to kind of restructure like if I do stuff like that it's in the end of the workout yeah anymore like because I can't I'm done it's over I'm toast you know I can't even do anything else and

my effort my effort might be there but the load that I can use is going to be pretty dismal after that but I do think it's I do think it's great just from a realization standpoint of like figure figuring out where your limits are and um and it's something that it's something that as a bodybuilder I think That you should enjoy what you're doing too you know so I like to integrate that stuff into most people's sessions especially if especially if we have the the calorie resources and their sleep's good and we have the recovery

resources to do it I mean I'm not I maybe won't do that two weeks out from show yeah like that's completely unnecessary and I'd be pissed if somebody got hurt yeah you know I'd feel like a real well that you can accumulate can be an issue too right But as long as we have the recovery capacity to do it for sure and I I mean I do it with myself and you know what would it be better if I did it less often maybe but I don't care well that that's that kind of gets into

what you're talking about with you know the RP and the r because if we use a movement and the leg press is probably the best example of that is you know there would be people that would come out you know to train with us you know Like yourself or you know other ones and we're doing a leg press and you know you're doing John like like eight work sets right some stupid amount of work sets and it's like 8 to 10 8 to 10 8 to 10 8 to 10 you can look at them they're

all like two R maybe one R then on the last one you know you get on their [ __ ] you get them going and then there's 25 so every time I would do something like that or I'd see something else somebody else do something like that I I Discount like was I even working on the other seven you know and that's where that becomes that conversation of that effort or RP is in what mental state are we attributing that we're allowed to be in right because if I'm just in a normal mental state you

know the eight to 10 is probably a rep too shy of failure the psycho mental state you know it's different and so is the systemic fatigue so is the the adrenaline release so is you know everything that follows at you Can [ __ ] up the whole week you know after that because of that whole thing it's uh I I like that you said that I've noticed that when I train I used to on the way to the gym so I train at home now because I have a you know home gym outside my barn

and stuff and I used to be like metal or the wrap and [ __ ] all the way there and I'm like dude I can't do this anymore I said I'm blow my whole wad before I even before I even get here You know so so I have to reserve that a little bit more for certain sets but but like you said finding that balance between going into that going into that space like how often can I operate in that space some people don't have that you know some people don't have that but um if

you can tap into that space you know you realize it gives you a whole new perspective on gauging gauging the intensity on the rest of your you know on the rest of your sets um about Wouldn't it last as smart too because it it it can destroy the whole rest of your training especially if you don't know how to Pivot you know because it's if the squats are first and you're doing all that but then you have a leg press or something second that may not have you may have to change that movement right yeah

it's different if you're you know it's different if you're powerlifting and then you're doing accessory work after totally different Totally different ball game but as a bodybuilder if you're looking at hypertrophy and you're looking at progressively overloading throughout a session and and your go goal is to try to do that from a week to week basis or session to session basis you do have to sequence things in a way that allow you to do that from session to session so if I'm understanding you correctly when you're kind of lay laying out these blocks per se

you you're moving the Repetitions up over time not pulling them down up or down so we may we may start higher and then stall in that rep range and maybe move to a lower rep range or we may go the other direction some of it depends on movement too like again a bicep curl I can basically operate in any rep range and I'm not too overly concerned about the systemic fatigue from that a hack squat or a leg press or an RDL or something like that it's going be a little different well if We're if

we're on the biceps for example would you have the frequency being three or four times a week because of that and then just one movement so like I can give you use myself an example right now I would I'm doing what I would kind of consider cuz I kind of do all in like a prioritization phase where I'm going to take what I know as my workload capacity and I'm going to allocate a lot to the weaker body parts that need to come up and everything else is basically train And maintenance so for me quads

and hamstrings are basically just maintenance I train them one day a week they get I probably have five to six work sets on my quads I probably have five to six work sets on my hamstrings I've been doing that for months they make small amounts of progress but I'm not really trying to grow those things as as much as everything else back which you could say like you know Romo terries Erectors traps and lats so there's a lot There there's a lot there's a lot to that that would be one and then buys and tries

that's kind of where I'm at delts are at maintenance PCS are at maintenance more or less I train Cavs every time I go in because they suck and they'll probably suck forever but whatever it won't be it won't be because of lack of effort yeah do what I can um but for biceps for example I can I train three days a week I mean I don't have any issue with that they get sore a Little bit but it's not like I can't do it and they might they're probably about four to six sets a session

you know per session I spread that so it's about 12 to or it's about uh 14 to 18 sets in a week total and I spread that out over three days works great for me I do various movements in terms of you know super neutral grip pronated whatever um long head short head I don't know how fancy you want to get there we do all it you know short lengthened shortened Whatever blah blah blah um I have no issue with that in my biceps I could probably do I could probably even do a little bit

more volume frankly it's just I get to the point where they're so pumped and so blown out that I can't even get a full contraction on them anymore so it's like that's kind of my limit yeah on that but would that impede my performance on anything else in a session probably not too much you know it probably wouldn't impede it probably Wouldn't create so much to iic fatigue that it's going to like cut into my back well if you're doing it right it shouldn't now if you're doing you know a cheap barbell curl with 315

for yeah if I'm doing [ __ ] then it would but yeah for sure and again it's sequence too it's like I'm I'm probably gonna train the bigger more demanding muscle group first in that case because my biceps don't take I'll say this I don't always want to do them because I'm tired from Hitting back MH but I can will myself through that and no problem I could get through it and perform well and still progress but on back I might not same reason I train my calvs first cuz dude I don't want to do

that [ __ ] at the end I do them at the beginning of every session because I'm I don't feel like doing it at the end you know I'll just I'm GNA walk out but um but sequence I think sequence for me has been huge in figuring that out for other people and Stronger people the stronger you get the more important that becomes with exercise selection and sequence just because of the fatigue it takes to set set a movement it's again like doing again I use the RDL as an example doing an RDL when you're

doing six plates aside for 10 revs I mean there's a lot of fatigue that comes into getting set up for that movement and getting in the right position and and handling it and that's a lot different than me getting In a a glute ham raise or something else where I can just lock in and focus and grind refs you know so those things become more and more and more important like you said warm-ups six plates aside requires five warmup sets it's like I mean [ __ ] you're those warm-ups you know you're doing four plates

on a warmup I mean that still requires quite a bit of systemic fatigue and your nervous system does adapt but your nervous system never adapts the way that your you know your Muscular system does over time because if that were the case if if we got huge we would just still be able to do 50 sets in a workout if our nervous system forever got you know forever adapted but it just doesn't work like that so if you're if you're progressing through and you're going to change out of movement say it is the the RDL

and then that that swaps out to a Clute ham Ray you know there's that glute ham Ray may require one warm-up set then you're into your Work sets but when we're talking about total work the total work of the glute ham Rays may be 20% of what the total work was for the rdls so are you accounting for that with either more sets or perhaps two different movements or are you using that is just being part of that natural phase almost like a D Lo if I'm if I'm just switching movements just for the sake

of continuing progression I'm either going to need to add sets or add add a movement if we're Doing it as a D Lo that's a whole separate whole separate thing but I'm going to count for like how much Roi am I getting off of this movement in comparison to the other movement because yeah it's it's definitely going to be a lot different so I might have to do three work sets instead of one or do five work sets instead of of three or I might have to add a you know a ly leg curl or

something in there with it or maybe I'll add an intensifier on the end Of it whereas I may not do an intensifier on the RDL like one straight set to complete mechanical failure just yeah going nuts versus you know glute ham raay I might I might do something where I'm doing it weighted and then I drop the weight or I do someone assisted you know some assisted negatives if I have a partner or whatever I can add those intensifiers in there to make up for that that extra you know workload that I'm missing right so

where would You fall on the science with even doing the intensifiers at all I'll tell you that I've gotten less I've done less and less intensifiers over the years um the more and I'm not I'm not a I'm not like an Olympia level bodybuilder or anything but as I've gotten more developed I've been able to handle less and less intensif fires because one I can do my my Straight sets better I can also create more tension on rep to Rep I think that's kind of an underlook thing is like you ever notice and and I'm

sure you have it's like you notice an advanced person how like rep one you're locked in and it looks just as taxing as rep 10 granted the speeds maybe a little bit more but like there's no shifting in form everything's perfect tension's perfect and it's just a beginner doesn't do that they're like I don't even feel anything until I hit rep 10 MH you know it's a whole different Ball game so as I've gotten stronger and more and better at creating tension I've had to kind of scale back on some of that stuff I'll still

do intensifiers on things like I might do like a length and partial or something like in a stretch position on something but I'm probably going to avoid anything that's going to put me in a lot of danger right so when I say that is I probably G to stray away from doing intensifiers on something that requires a lot of Stabilization right just because knowing myself I'm not I'm going to go till I probably can't see anymore and then I'm like don't know where I'm at and what's going on and then I think it's just maybe

not it's maybe puts me in a higher risk of injury whereas in a machine I can get away with it you know um but again stronger bigger bigger stronger I I have to kind of scale some of that stuff back because just because of the CNS fatigue it comes with so then How will this change as you're leading to a show so first thing I would do coming into a show is realizing that like the amount of volume it takes the amount of volume it takes to maintain muscles like substantially less than it does to

you know to to create it um I think that the first thing to realize is like the first half of your prep if you can't maintain a similar work capacity than you did in the off season you're doing you're probably Doing something wrong or if you're doing way more you probably were half ass in your yeah you know half ass in your off I kind of laugh at that they're like doing twice as much it said because [ __ ] around the whole time you know but if we're talking when we're getting to the leaner

stages a few things happen one you lose leverage you know when you get body when you when you're losing a lot of body fat you lose leverage you don't really have the cushion anymore And the joints you know you can't come out of the hole and stuff you Bell's smaller you know you can't get the bra if you're wearing a belt you don't get the same bracing you know you're you're my elbow sleeves aren aren't as tight you know all that stuff so I I'm simply going to lose leverage for one the second thing is

I'm going to be under more systemic fatigue just because I'm probably doing like more cardiovascular activity as well so that's another thing That's eating into my recovery I have less calories my sleep might be starting to get a little funky in there as well so that's even more strain on my CNS so I'm going to start first thing I'm going to do is start pulling out the stuff that doesn't give me much Roi so that would be like fluff you know anything that's in there that's like accessory work or anything that's maybe not going to

give me as much stimulus as the big movements That might go first I want to try to maintain as much strength as I can that's going to keep the tissue on me so I might start pulling all that other stuff out next thing I'm probably going to do is cut the volume back a little bit if I have to if I don't have to or feeling good cool keep rolling but if we have to we might you know shave a work set off we're doing if we're doing like a a top set and a back

off set maybe I'm going to take the back off set off right And we're just going to stick to the top set I can still maintain that load so we're start kind of picking things out pulling things off and eventually we're stripped down to a kind of a probably a similar amount of exercises but at a lot lower amount of volume by the time we get to the end and then also you know by the time you're two weeks out from a show I mean the muscle ain't going anywhere at that point you kind of

have to go by feel on that if you if you're Really beating to the ground and you've had to really dig to get in shape you kind of have to just listen to your body at that point because you had mentioned systemic fatigue it's like it's the same reason that people back off their training going into the week of the show it's like you're clearing inflammation you're going to be more separated you're going to look better um you have to take that in consideration too is I don't want to be just a look inflamed you

know Going into this going in the contest um so I'm not having my just because my guy can squat 500 pounds for 10 reps like we don't need to do that [ __ ] four days out like don't you know I'm not I don't think it's a wise thing to do so then with that contest prep have you found longer preps are better than shorter preps or there's really no difference at all assuming that you're starting in a good place I probably air a little more Towards the side of long just because [ __ ]

happens you know like there's obstacles that happen you have a bad week you I don't know you power goes out at your house your food goes bad like anything can happen you have to go on a work trip even if we know that you need to lose 25 pounds roughly in a prep and we kind of program it to lose a pound and a half a week like that's best case scenario that you don't have to take a day off right I me what's the chances That you're not going to accumulate fatigue and not have

to take a rest somewhere there so I think that it's just from a from having some cushion standpoint I would program in a little bit more now I can't sit and say like that's 20 weeks or that's 18 weeks or 24 weeks because a lot of that depends on how fat you are and how much yeah you know and how much like how quickly you can use body fat are you enhanced are you not Enhanced like what does that look like um but I I much prefer to be able to have in an Ideal World

everyone's ready a week or so early mhm and we can just Coast you know we can Coast in the show we don't have to do anything I mean that would be ideal but what normally ends up happening is you plan for that some [ __ ] happens and you end up ready right on time and then you know you go into the show um now there are downsides to the longer though because I do think that I Do think when we're talking adaptation we're looking at down regulation and things like thyroid conversion and leptin levels

and and systemic fatigue there still is an argument that longer exposure to that stuff even if it's slower could be a problem so I don't really prescribe to the idea of prepping for eight months just for the sake of only losing a you know a quarter of a pound a week I think eventually too long becomes mentally Taxing and becomes probably creating more adaptation than you really want so there's got to be some kind of middle ground in there well wouldn't if it's too long wouldn't the calories become too low well the the idea of

of longer would be that you have less you know more subtle calorie restrictions or more subtle adjustments over time but there eventually becomes a point where eventually becomes a point where that Time that that length of exposure to that deficit is problematic and of course you can like refeed in there and you can take you know some people they do the super long preps and they'll do like full week diet breaks you know where you're like out of a deficit for full weeks and things and and that's a VI option and a lot of people

prescribe to that but I probably fall somewhere in the middle I don't know that there's a lot of people that are going to be Peeled in six you know or I'm sorry in 12 weeks like it doesn't yeah like there's hardly anyone like that like those are the people that don't end up in shape on show day you know and and people always underestimate how much fat they need to lose and how much weight they need to lose especially newer people um bigger bigger guys always lose more weight generally going into shows like the guy

prep for Chicago it's like he was lean at 305 lbs wow you know he's 5' 10 he's like separated quads and abs at 305 he still ended up at 255 on stage because the first 20s fluid and [ __ ] and it's co you know it's like someone that big there's so much space in there for fluid and water and adapost tissue that they're going to lose so much more weight than my 130 lb bikini girl that ends up 110 on stage yes but their length of prep might be similar yes I I've seen a

lot of that with powerlifters that will retire want To do a body buing show or die at first show whatever it's going to be and they walk around maybe like 285 and they think right they're going to be like 245 and I think Justin Harris told me one time Ronnie Coleman won his first Olympia way like 244 right you know so then these guys really don't realize until they start dieting down that most likely they're going to end up like at 215 right you know but while they're walking around at 285 290 they Think they're

going to be shredded at 250 right and it's just not how this works this like the first 10 pounds is visceral fat and they don't even see it you know like man I've lost 10 pounds I don't look any different well i' I've joked to that you know for because I went through this as well that there's a fugly face too flat and fat yeah and that's where you're like what the hell you know I looked better when I was fat and big you know this is terrible and Then mentally kind of getting through all

that but with competitors you're working with they've done this multiple times so they kind of know all that so this would be for for them and even for yourself is every time you get in the single D like the first time you get in the single digits it's kind of like a mental nightmare right and each time you come back down is it better I think that it's I don't think it's better in terms of I don't think it's Better in terms of like you all of the sudden feel better there but I think you

learn you make less mistakes and I think there's pattern recognition in terms of a great example would be like refeeding or giving some days off the more I prep people the more I can catch those things before they become a big problem and I know that if I let you go two more days we're going to have a ton of fatigue and we're going to need an extended break whereas I'm already kind of seeing it Creeping in and let's just get ahead of it right so instead of because the idea would be the idea would

be as you get better at those patterns that you aren't wasting any days in there right there's no really wasted days where you're sitting stagnant or you're sitting heavily fatigued I can catch those things early which might require might require some extra check-ins on my end you know might Require some extra extra monitoring on my end especially as you get further into it but you just make less mistakes you understand the person's body better you understand where their fatigue threshold is a little bit better so you can you can get through the prep smoother with

less wasted you know with like less wasted days in there you do two three days here two three days here you've just shaved off a week two weeks now you're ready early or now you're Leaner than the previous prep so it probably doesn't get easier cuz I mean I've prepped I think I've done I don't know probably 13 14 shows in total and I always end up you know always end up super low calories and tons of cardio every time but I but I get tighter you know I get tighter I look better I look

bigger I can fill out better and all that's just a product of recognizing things earlier so I'm making less less mistakes in that process so how do you Manage and work with other so it's to be a personal and then working with others too on keeping B your your neat right you know so your your your basic metabolic rate so how many calories you're burning per day you know from offseason to preseason to you start you know pre-contest cardio goes up all this other stuff goes up but you also start laying on the couch way

more watching TV way more so the the Majority of your calories if if I'm not mistaken Bon is not burnt during the actual movement it's burned to knee levels right so how do you keep that in check because it's a weird balance right because that's that can fall the longer the diet's going to go and that can fall at a greater rate than the cardio that you're trying to put in yeah so you just put in more cardio which is burning less calories than if you didn't let the frecking Kneat fall right and then there's

different you know people p some people prescribe to like the step you know doing steps um and I think that's an I think it's an okay method I think it holds you a little more accountable as far as that looks at like a total daily expenditure but even steps aren't perfect because if you weigh 250 at the beginning of prep and you weigh 210 at the end you're moving less through space each step you take Burns less calories And you become like your resting heart rate goes down as you become more cardio adapted so your

movement becomes more efficient you're burning less calories for 20 minutes on the treadmill at the end of prep than you did at the beginning right so like none of those models are perfect right because in any of those cases not only are you wanting to move less and there's little things like you you used to take out the trash every day and do the dishes every day And now you don't because you're tired you tapped your used to tap your foot at the desk and do other things and you stop doing those little things and

then adds up you take that and you add in the fact that everything you you do is now burning less than what it was when you were heavier it's like put an obese person on the treadmill and in 10 minutes they're like you know it looks like Niagara Falls over there because they're so poorly adapted to cardio that They the amount of calories they burn versus a a little cardio bunny over here who's been doing an hour cardio every day it's substantially different so there's not a perfect there's not a perfect model but I'm gonna

if we're doing a if we're doing a step model and I do both with people I kind of go based on people's preference and also maybe what makes sense for their schedule and their kind of mental space um steps can work good for people but sometimes it Creates like a super obsessive Behavior you know what I mean and I'm like I know what you mean you know so I'm like okay so some for some people that might not be I just don't want to add any more reason for them to be neurotic so like that's

not a good model for you so we might use a timed we might use the traditional walk this much on the treadmill or whatever and I can make that a little bit more a little bit more um Standardized by like giving a heart rate perhaps because you know your resting heart rate's going to go down so if I'm like hey all of your walking sessions need to be 100 to 120 beats per minute they're going to have to pick up their intensity the later in the prep to maintain that heart rate goal which kind of

tells me that we're probably burning close to the same calories you know throughout that so that's another way to standardize it and If I'm if I am using a Time model as as generic as this sounds I'll be like I want you to try to live your life as normal as you can if you used to do these chores at home keep doing them at home if you used to contribute these things to your family or to your whatever keep doing them if you used to like to do these activities I'm like just think of

prep as it's the same as every other day you're just eating a different amount of food and you're Doing a different amount of stuff so like you talk about laying around on the couch and resing if I'm assigning that to you because it's a rest day and I need you to chill that's the one thing but otherwise I want you to try to participate and do these things because most of the stuff that's all low intensity them taking out the trash and them walking through the house and and sweeping the floor and mopping is not

I mean it's not going to create a lot of Fatigue but I can have them continue to do as much normal keep as much normaly in their life as they can and that will help maintain those neat levels you know to the best of my ability but I would say the step model is probably slightly more standardized it's just that it's just that some people don't do well with it from a mental yeah a mental aspect you know I've had people I'll tell you this I've had people get Completely peeled on walking on the treadmill

fasted every morning I've had people get completely peeled on doing literally no time cardio at all and just tracking it all in their watch I think the M I think you have to be able to rep replicate it and you have to be able to track it consistently and maintain neat levels the best you can if you can do that any of the models work yeah well I think that I mean one of the things that you said about the treadmill Kind of brought back a a story to me to where I'll Circle this back

around with what the takeaway is is during one of the times I was dieting down there was a lot of cardio that was in there and whatever 110 120 whatever the heart rate was I was trying to achieve you know it inclined it like 8% grade 30 minutes it became very really hard for me to get that to happen and it was one of the appointments I had with sorrano so I'm like I don't understand like what the [ __ ] is going on like I've always been able to do this this this and then

this was the outcome but now I can't get the damn thing to go up any higher than I I can barely even get to where I was you know from the heart rate perspective and this is you know anytime I it down I never wanted to be show ready so whoever I worked with is like look the goal here is like five weeks out for the world you guys live in I know what happens after that I said I'm not naive to this whole [ __ ] like that I don't want to do that and

um so his reply was so what you're telling me is you got in shape you know because you get better to that but the way my brain was working at that time because you're in a deficit you're training you everything's regimen you kind of like a monck right and your brain my brain would only operate for like 30 minutes after a meal anyhow where if you don't have a coach kind of helping you with this kind of stuff it's Really easy to Discount the obvious like yeah maybe I needed to just go higher incline or

faster right you know to be able to do that but you're not thinking that because you're [ __ ] an autopilot mode like here's this here's a meal here's this here I get to work here everything's just locked in the whole thing so I can see where it's really easy to just I got a two hour break I'm just sleeping yeah you know the neat Falls And all these other things are going to fall which would be obvious to that same person four months prior right but once there and it's not that the brain is

actually becoming dumb which it probably kind of is but everything else has become so high priority that obvious things get missed and where a coach can help with that or if they can't afford a coach somebody else that just does the same thing that's not in the same prep period that can look at that and be able To say oh you know what that is because as soon as I was told I felt like a freaking idiot like oh yeah okay I get that but I'll see the same thing if it's you know a powerlifting

coach and they're used to working with top lifters all the time and they the last thing that they're really looking at is are they grabbing the bar even right or if they're squatting is it on their back even you know there was months after a shoulder surgery at Westside I will say that you know you couldn't stand behind anybody the way the gym was set up you know where the monolift was it faced out so there was yeah there was a wall and it took a coach coming in probably four six months post surgery you

know so I may have taken off well it's me I may have taken off like 3 weeks you know and then had St shove my arm in there and asked me like why are you carrying the bar 2 in off to the side I'm like the [ __ ] you Talking about you I'm not doing that yes you are right and there's no cameras or phones like somebody look and May and it's like now this is 20 other guys I'm training with you know what I'm saying for 5 months and nobody realized that the bar

was offset by 4 in right where that's not what we're looking at you know we're looking at the bracing we're looking at head position we're looking at all these other finer things and the basic [ __ ] Just gets lost sure where I can see that same thing kind of happening as you know an intermediate or even Pro bodybuilders going into their prep where all the focus is on that weak point you know where's the water you know where's your cortisol where's your stress o you know overflow over flowing that's not not when I'm spilling

over meanwhile the basic [ __ ] like neat yep isn't even being looked at because it's just assumed that it's being taken Care of yep right and I think when you're dealing with and I like your perspective on this when you're dealing with top athletes that's usually where the biggest issues come yeah because they get they get hyperfocused on these done details right so it's like that hierarchy of hierarchy of needs it's like they just kind of assume that because they're high level that all those other things are going to be taken care of it's

very oddest Software in the brain you know and they're and in prep it's easy to do it's one of the things I encourage people to do is I'm like don't think of it like it's not anything different right I said you especially those people that are really good in their off Seasons that are executing year round 100% yeah it might be less free meals you know you're going out to eat less whatever but it's largely you need to be focusing on the same stuff sleep Movement you know blah blah blah blah blah I said I'm

only changing numbers you know I'm pushing and pulling you know working stuff but they but your tendency is to get hyperfocused on those other small details but meanwhile you're missing out like you said you're missing out on the important stuff and that's and and again we were talking earlier about abundance of information and that's making it harder and harder on me as a Coach and on people that are coaching people because I'm like you need to get off Instagram for a bit please you know we got to stop we got to stop having too many

cooks in the kitchen here yeah and stop you know worrying about all this stuff and that because that's why we pay somebody you know it's like I have an accountant that does my taxes and I just basically tell him what I need to tell him and I trust that he's the professional well I think that if you're If you're being locked into something because when I was still competing you know one of the things that I always did is if I was training for a meat which is basically all the time so when the whole

time I was at Westside I never subscribed to powerlifting USA you know I wouldn't read powerlifting forums you know because here's how I'm training you know here's what the bias is here's what we're doing I don't want anything to Impede that because I'm trying to maximize the efficiency of what's actually being done so if I start looking at all these other places I'm going to start questioning things so the easiest way to not question things is don't look in other places yep now after meet's over and it's you know more it's not as important you

know then you look around you know then you kind of do it that way when I would try to pull body fat off it was John or Justin or Shelby Or whoever it was I quit reading anything that had to do with all that because of the same reason and it was just a habit that I you know have always had but I think it would serve a lot of people really well you know to be able to do that because your commitment to the thing that you're doing goes up right and when that goes

up that means other commitments in your life are probably going to go down right so the way that you can avoid those other Commitments in your life going down is is remove something which is usually what you think is education or entertainment remove those things completely out of the mix and then you'll have more time for those other commit ments that are in there because during that short time period three or four months in a span of a lifetime is not a long time it's not necessary and it even it's counterproductive right right because if

you keep that all in There then where are you g where you gonna find the time for these other things let alone a hobby that's why when you mention a hobby like what the [ __ ] you talking about like who has time for hobbies you know hell is a business owner people ask me that all the time like what are your hobbies I'm like man I'm working on it when did you start working on it 20 some years ago right you know I I'd love to be able to put it in there but when

and I know that's just It's an excuse yeah you know it's me just falling in my own trap catching myself again thinking right now I need to come up with a hobby Knowing damn well I won't you know because that's but if you have those outside people you know if they're involved with the industry even better you know but at the same time you should have those outside people that aren't involved in the industry y because that perspective is one you don't want to hear right but When we're talking about these Sports and the commitment

to these Sports past the beginner level the definition of Health and Wellness shifts a little bit right because these are not healthy things right when you peel it all back so when you work is the like a health specialist that's better than health coach but I'll come up with some hope before we're done I'll come with something better than that there are still things that you have to keep in Check so what would be some things that if they're going through a prep to where this prep is over because that's the last thing anybody's ever

going to want to hear or do but for the betterment of their health there is going to be a Tipping Point which you want to avoid at all cost and but as we've seen over the last decade some people you have died but I think more from diuretics and I have my theories on all that um well I'll ask you I'll just throw that out Here before we get into this I was theorizing during that time period because that was also when everything was kind of being locked down that you have somebody prepping for something

then that gets moved you know six weeks later then they just continue the prep then that gets moved again eight weeks later now they're continuing the prep and I'm in my brain I'm thinking okay thyroid Clan you know I'm thinking all the things that are helping to burn that Fat which isn't exactly the best for your heart over a longer duration and because a lot of those it was at a rapid pace for a couple years right it seemed to die down which makes me think I'm Alex Jones and my conspiracy was correct right right

so but getting back to the original question of that health and wellness at what point or what indicators would because you're going to catch them be it's got to be really really bad to Cancel a PR sure right you should a good coach should be able to catch that before that even happens sure so what are some of those things that you're looking for yeah so like a cute like acute issues versus chronic issues because understanding that even if you start the prep in the perfect position which is the ideal like that's another thing is

when you talk about issues and preps something that would halt you is a lot of people are going into prep with One foot out the door already you know and that's why I don't most the people that I prep I don't like taking people just for prep yes like they like hey I got a show in 16 weeks can we start tomorrow I'm like dude I don't know anything about you I can get some blood work and stuff on you I can look but I don't really know one it's difficult because I don't know anything

about your body and two it's like I don't know anything about your health and what Other things might come up so having someone in the good position from a digestive aspect from a stress standpoint from a life standpoint and nothing's ever perfect if you're an entrepreneur and you have businesses and you're crazy busy like there's no perfect time to do anything you just kind of have to do it you know but we don't have to put ourselves at a disadvantage when there's stuff we can make better so like that's first Priority because that that in

and of itself prevents a lot of issues later but then once we get into the prep understanding like what amount of negative adaptation is normal and what amount is going to be problematic so things like thyroid down regulation well you probably are just going to take exogenous thyroid in there you know things like um seeing your lipid panel skew and your HDL go down because you're using Peds like well we know that Summer's here and so is the heat I've spent most my life training in unconditioned gyms and I know most you that are training

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something that's now we're talking renal function now we're talking some scary [ __ ] you know some stuff That's potentially it's not liver enzymes anymore you know these are things that are potentially problematic I'm seeing like massive EMA on somebody I'm seeing you know people that are completely unresponsive or swelling or having major weight fluctuations like these stress and inflammatory things that are potentially chronically problematic that would maybe indicate to me that we need to step back um but most negative adaptations we see in a prep Are completely normal part of that process I think

the more important thing is understanding and working with someone that knows how to fix them when you're done and not just and and hopefully you stay on with that coach after the prep and that you have a successful postow period yeah you're going to eat some [ __ ] you're going to do do the whole thing but having someone there that can actually help you navigate that stuff post show is going To be super important and not just coming out of the show and doing your thing and just switching compounds and continuing to just roll

for the next six months you know until something breaks what would that time be time period be when you're looking for what their Baseline is because everybody's going to be a little bit different you know on their Baseline so if it's post show they're not blasting tons of [ __ ] and all this other kind of stuff you should Be able to see you know a relative Baseline you mean as far as like Labs just labs and stuff like that yeah so hopefully I have a baseline prior okay right I have a baseline prior and

then I might and then I mean I I do like drawing I do like to have a kind of an idea of what like what are the worst Labs look like I want to see the worst [ __ ] like I know it's going to look bad or worse I shouldn't say bad I should say it's not going to look as good as it Does when you're not doing anything and nobody wants to do the labs during that time it's like I I would like to know what that looks like and so I have an

idea of good bad where's the middle I think that you know that we what's happening to people over time is that they're we know the good and we know the bad but the Good's getting a little bit worse each time you know our Goods not as good anymore we're recovering less and less the ones that Kind of get me are like I mentioned renal function there have been some individuals that have you know had renal failure and things like that it's like you know you go in and you see real basic marker like your egfr

which can be skewed by your muscle mass so take that into consideration but you don't you don't walk in one day and have a GFR of 20 that takes a lot of time so one of two things happen you Ignored it you saw it but you ignored it or you never looked at it right it's like there are certain things that that adjust acutely like your lipids your HDL is going to go up and down pretty quick you come off stuff and it's going to shoot back up to probably wherever it was within as soon

as [ __ ] clears out right LDL same thing liver enzymes affected by training we know that that's kind of a crappy marker for people that train and have muscles so it's like we Know that stuff's going to move around um inflammatory markers even but when you start looking at things like renal function markers or you start going and if you want to go a step further you're getting a you know you're getting like a calcium score done you know if you if you're really Advanced and you're maybe getting a little bit older you're getting

a echo done like those are things that independent of whatever you're doing would show you like a Long-term Outlook of where you're trending right and and is every person goingon to go in and get an echocardiogram done absolutely not I mean what's the percentage of people bodybuilding powerlifting that I've had Echo done you why not a lot right but I can do that with my Apple watch if I wanted to right well or or a calcium score to look at you know arterial plaque like it it's not as it's not as common but these are

things I want Markers that would indicate chronic you know chronic dysfunction over time versus like and that's important for the coach to understand that too because if you a doctor's perfect example you go into the doctor and you trained the day before and your as and ALT or you know 120 they're like oh [ __ ] go to the hospital we got liver failure and and I've seen that happen I had a client that happen too and they went in doctor freaked out and they tried to rush him The hospital and they emailed me and

I'm like what's going on and you know found nothing of course I okay we'll get them retested give me a couple days take a couple days off and they're 100% normal like stuff like that we we know that they're acute changes but certain things take a long time I and that's why i' cited the renal thing it's like that doesn't happen overnight you know those are things that take long periods of time to regress you're not going to do One you know one cycle and end up with stage five kidney failure doesn't happen you know

you're having high blood pressure for years on end and and carrying tons of body weight and doing all those other things and that's when that stuff starts happening and for my bigger guy I got to I got to pay closer attention I also have to understand that perfect or good is like a little bit lower for them and that's just the reality of it it's like good enough like I got to make it as good as I can considering the circumstances well if it falls under good enough health issues aside would that still not make

it harder for them to get in the position they need to be in yeah it absolutely would and I think that's where it's as I've gotten to work with bigger people over time and more advanced people I've noticed you know you see in Pro bodybuilding for example like let's go the Pinnacle is Open men's bodybuilding Biggest guys right you know some of them you know they just don't diet hard enough they don't get into they're afraid to lose muscle whatever they don't get into shape sure that happens but sometimes there's a look about some of

the guys where it's like you can see it in their skin and their face and their and tone of their skin and the color and and they don't they're very lean but they never get hard you know they never get the Separation they don't get the detail they always have that like film look about them they're like oh they should have just took you they needed a diuretic they need to cut their water and I'm like but maybe this is a chronic inflammation issue and they're as lean as the other guy but it doesn't present

the same way so those things would happen it would be harder to get in the condition it would be harder to peek for the show it' be harder to attain that Look that you want and then you get those guys that have done the right stuff and they look kind of fresh MH it's like okay so there's a difference we can see a big difference in the skin and the you know in in the facial appearance and their eyes and all the stuff and it looks different and they're able to get into shape easier they're

able to peek better they're able to get those fine details so that stuff does it's not like you can't get there but It's not going to look as good and it's going to be way harder to accomplish mhm right and then what's the effects of that repetitively and how often are you doing it you know it's and it it's a big reason that these guys trying to qualify for the Olympia for example like they took out for my understanding they took the point system out so now you have to win a show it's like I

feel feel bad for some of these dudes because they're having to do you know they're having to Do they're just trying man they're doing five six shows in a row and by show three they they're a shell you know they they can't Peak anymore they don't have the were were they kind of still doing that if they're trying to accumulate the points though they they were but some of them could point in you know some of them could point in a little bit quicker than they could actually having to win the show because the idea

of winning a show as a pro Bodybuilder is difficult yeah you know like how many it's like 0.1% you know that are actually going to win a show and be on the Olympia level and so these guys are just getting ran into the ground and you know all they're doing is increasing their oral dose in between competitions to try to mitigate the fact that their body's not responding anymore it's like man there's got to be there's got to be a middle ground where the the better you function The better you respond and so we have

to find that and still like while we're pushing the envelope we still have to find that enough better you know that idea that we're still functioning good enough to continue to respond and do these things over and over again and that might mean not doing the next show that might mean a longer break between the shows it might mean titrating your dosages like less aggressively into the show you know um more is better until It's not you know we know that more training yeah more androgens like more of everything creates a dose response until eventually

it doesn't anymore but I think a lot of people just more is better until more is better and forever yeah well yeah right but we know that's not true like there's limit to that where you're kind of an inverted you and eventually the effects the side effects outweigh the the pros yeah and we try to avoid that what are what are some of the Things that are trending right now because these are interesting fields that on social media because you know things come you know in these waves and from the dietary standpoint or the bodybuilding

standpoint what what are some of the things right now that are hot topics that because every year there's new Hot Topics that kind of emerge where you know gut health which you kind of specialize in few years ago like Everything was attributed to gut health it didn't matter what it was right everything was is there anything like that now that's kind of going around man there's always something if and we could break it down so since I'm kind of in that Functional Health and the bodybuilding space and Functional Health everyone wants just like in bodybuilding

it's no different everyone wants the thing that's wrong so we were on gut for a while now it's like Everyone has mold or everyone has like parasites or something you know it's like we'll latch we latch on to something for a little while and then it goes away you know because some high-profile influencers will will push this stuff out and then eventually we realize that it could be any of these number of things and each person's different we always come back to that every time because that's the answer yeah you know and within bodybuilding um

I mean there's a couple things one is this a big push which is it's cool to see but I think it's also a little bit deceiving is like this idea of the safer use model is like a thing now they coin this term of like using less to achieve a better look and stay healthier it's like well that's kind of a good goal regardless you know but but I think it's deceiving because most people aren't complying to Yeah well I it's it's amazing to me that you know trt use is now two grams you know

where you know it's it's because the narrative around this has increased which is good and bad you know I think it's a net positive and there's always going to be negatives that are associated with that but it's a net positive if the person that's considering actually explores more voices instead of just finding one and just listening to that One because I think that's what leads to teenagers taking Tren in high school you know where if they just expanded and listen to more voices they would find pretty much nobody is advocating it's not as common as

yeah well yes and anybody that knows anything about this is not advocating for teenagers to take [ __ ] steroids right nobody right you know but they'll find that one voice you know that will resonate and that's what they do and but with a lot of these Things that's kind of how it moves right right instead of listening to more voices they just narrow down into that one the loud one that loud one and because of that now anybody who would be taking blasting gear it's now trt right right where the actual trt dose is

going to be dependent of on what keeps you at that 800 or 700 or whatever level you want to be at you know for some people it might be 50 milligrams I mean It's not going to be a whole lot for some people other people it might be in upwards of 400 but it's certainly not two GRS right where that that's been the fun thing for me to watch is nobody now blasts gear it's just all trt right it's like okay you know who's transparent about what they're actually taking you know not a whole lot

of people yeah and that's a that is so that's one area that's been big I think the the other areas Nutrition's been a little quiet training's been the one recently that's been really there's been a lot of back and forth about that just because of again the research coming out but I can't but the research is ridiculous I mean some of these studies are showing like 50 sets is better than 20 sets I'm like who in God's name is doing 50 sets of squats on a workout like who who are the people for one they

don't know how to read and I'm not saying I'm like I'm Not saying I'm an ultra expert on dissecting research to it but I understand it enough and the controls are garbage the the the participants are garbage you don't know anything about what they're doing outside of that and of course if I do 50 sets my quads are going to be two inches bigger because they're going to be so damn inflamed like let's measure sweet well nothing happens in isolation either right you know so it's it's interesting because The original research on Ecentric was strong

right right and but that was really all that we really anybody was really speaking about now it's a stretch position yeah right so it's like so I'm just like I'm just following the path of a repetition right so in another year or two the Centric is going to be we Circle back you know what I'm saying that that's going to be you know and it's just kind of how it all works to where it's it's it's fun to watch and there's Probably something to be learned from all that but again it doesn't all happen in

isolation there's a lot of things where the effective rep one is one that is interesting you know to to look at and I can comprehend it I understand what they're talking about but if you know two rep shy a failure or whatever it's going to be so then why not just why are powerlifters that do threes and fives and not more jacked right so it's there there's a lot Of questions you know that kind of fall into there and then the Reps that lead up to those effective reps are building work capacity you know so

for bodybuilding maybe powerlifting you know maybe a little bit more degree not as important but to a wrestler or something like that work capacity is a big [ __ ] deal right right so effective rep or not effective rep it's it's it's not the most important thing right to being that better athlete You know so it's a lot of these things get spoken about in isolation yeah you know instead of and I guess that's okay as long as the person who's digesting the information understands this is one thing in isolation you know versus and nutrition's

kind of the same thing but it has gotten a little quiet just give it another year something else will pop up there but yeah um because they'll take a micronutrient you know in a diet and whoever has a diet that just compos The one micronutrient yeah because a lot of them are based on like correlation equals causation right there's like uh and and I find that interesting because looking at lab work you know looking at hormones and things like that it's like this causes this I said okay maybe for a second but the fact of

the matter is the rest of that feedback loop is going to also respond to that in something else is going to happen within that because we're we're designed it's Pretty cool how we're designed we're basically designed to protect ourselves no matter what happens you know like there is always a counter mechanism that's going to do something else to protect us and so as long as we're not in any one of those States for too long our body is pretty good at just balance and stuff out right like our whole goal is to basically like be

the same body weight don't be super lean don't be super f fat you know don't be don't be Super strong don't be super weak like we're not really designed to do any of those things which is why bodybuilding pting are so cool because we're having to create adaptation somewhere but our body and that's why like the stress thing so important is I can't tell you how many cases that they're very complex like I pull blood work and we do like a stool analysis and we see all these things and some times it's really bad like

it looks rough but there's been Plenty of cases where with minimal interven in terms of supplements or medication they get better it takes a while but they get better because we provide the environment which is the lower stress environment we're getting adequate sleep we have good sleep hygiene I can understand how much training they can handle how much they can't you know and we do some basic supplementation and over time their body does exactly what it's designed to do And they get better now not every case is that easy but but it happens you know

it happens a lot of the time and because a lot of the time the changes that we're seeing are just all they are is adaptation all they are is a protection mechanism you know our body's not dumb it's trying to keep us safe yeah you know it knows what it's it knows what it's doing it's just that one of those Pathways starts like inflammation like we need inflammation you know Inflammation responds to muscle damage inflammation responds to gut microbiome or injuries or cut your hand or your thumb or drop the weight on your foot like

we have to have those things things but too much you know too much becomes a chronic issue immune system becomes disrupted now we have a problem so it's just like how do we give ourselves an environment to where those things calm down and we do that long enough and our body will do exactly what it's supposed To do and we are back to Baseline the trick is that and I mentioned this earlier that in a general population person is a lot different than that in a bodybuilder or a powerlifter because we are doing so many

other things that are disrupting homeostasis at the same time so my goal in a Functional Health case in a in a general population person is to create a result and sustain that result forever here's the lifestyle here's what you can Handle here's what you can do here's the nutrients you need you can pretty much maintain this model with maybe some subtle tweaks as you get older you can do it forever lifestyle right lifestyle or we call him a lifestyle client but in a bodybuilder it's like here's what we have to do in a prep to

maintain it here's what we have to do in offseason to maintain it here's the differences between those things and so it's it's like we we fix it to break it again you Know we're fixing it because we know we're going to break it again but we want to try to break it less and less each time you know and so it's it's working with those cases is different and I and it's I I enjoy it because a lot of the people that work in that Functional Health space don't work with bodybuilders so I'm like one

of the few that actually has the that has brought it together and it and you know there's not a lot of people that are working With like big hu you know huge body butter guys that are doing this stuff and it's just really cool to see because these dudes have good genetics you know what I mean it's really cool to see what their bodies can actually do when you when you do some of these interventions and it's like man what kind of potential we were missing with some of these guys like your gear works better

you know metabolizes better your food works better I've got guys that are eating you Know th 2,000 calories Less in the offseason because they're absorbing food so much better and they're just blowing up and it's it's incredible to see but unfortunately it's not really come into the it's not really come into the Limelight enough yet but we're getting there with the functional side or the Functional Health side bodybuilding all that aside so those practitioners are they embracing resistance training more Now than they have in the past yeah I think most do I think that I

think that um and I can't speak for I can't speak for everyone but I know most of the people that I work with if they're coaches that that practice that type of stuff they probably are were competitors or are competitors or they live that lifestyle so they're kind of naturally inclined to suggest that stuff anyhow um but I do think it's definitely become a lot more a lot more prevalent um but I'm Also not naive to think that there's plenty you know I find it interesting like there's plenty of people that don't do traditional weight

training that are look good quote unquote that are healthy like you could probably accomplish [ __ ] doing Pilates and you know and doing some hard you know hard resistance yoga and some body weight exercises like but weight training expedites that process I mean I think the the difference is you just get a lot more bang for your buck With weight training than you do with those other things M but it's I'm not naive to think that you can't look good and accomplish a lot of those things without it no but I I think from

that side the the resistance training's come a long way over the last decade for sure you know where you know it wasn't even a thing because it's like what Meatheads do or you stereotype yeah and now it's way different than what it was and should get more popular you know just Because of the health benefits associated with that it gets weird when you're the retired powerlifter retired bodybuilder trying to wrap your head around doing this for health yeah when the whole time it wasn't really about that you know so that's that's a different psychological conversation

you to be able to work through that the uh the one that I feel a lot of people struggle with is the um the coaches that I work with that Have have a heavy competitive background or they're actively competing and they're working with those other people they have a heavy bias towards what they did yeah you know what I mean so they're I think not not necessarily we're not talking about necessarily suggesting weight training or anything but I think they have a hard time when it comes to like goal setting and stuff for people they

have a hard time wrapping their head around not wanting to be like that Well that in mindset as well yeah you're like dude I I have and I'm you know through and through I'm a bodybuilder and even when I'm not competing anymore I mean that's just who I will be forever but I'm fully aware that I don't think anyone's weak or dumb because they don't want to like they don't want to lift weights five or six times a week and do that stuff I think you can still accomplish and be you know look good and

and be healthy without doing that and I And I also understand that not everyone wants to weigh their [ __ ] every day and mhm you know and do all that stuff and I think that a lot of people are close-minded and think that they're just weak or this and that it's like dude there's a lot of there's a lot of Life out there well that I think they forget the they had to develop those habits themselves right you know so at some point in time they were not weighing everything they were not as Regimented

when they first started right and they they forget those first several years right right and it's easy to forget that because if you've done it for 30 years you know three years out of 30 years pretty [ __ ] easy to forget and you're going to think that you were always that person that was always doing that and that's simply not the case and you're dealing with people that are in those first three years but don't have the same desire that said coach had when They first got in y you know they're in for different

they're in for health or whatever it's going to be which is a different a different drive a way harder drive to be able to work with people on than when there's a tangible competitive goal it's like we just want you to be healthier what the [ __ ] does that mean right how do I keep doing that like what am I striving for you know there's no tangible timelines or anything and they uh and that's why we always talk about Having to meet people where they're at you know it's like for some people coming in

if they are just used to eating McDonald's three times a day I the idea of tracking macros to the tea and weighing everything to the Graham and drinking a gallon of water every day and taking 40 pills a day like dude I'll take 60 pills a day I don't care they're just pills but for some people I mean that's a that's a lot to wrap their head around but I always this Is what I always tell people is like your goals are your goals I'm going to try to push you towards something that's probably best

for you based on what I see but I also am not going to push you towards what I think what I think you have to be if that's not what you want to be but understand that each goal requires a different tier of effort you know if you've been eating McDonald's three times a day and now you're eating protein a lean protein in each meal and And taking some basic supplements and we get some labs done you're going to get to this level but if you want to go to the next level just understand that

it's going to require this next level of effort and if you don't want to that's fine you know yeah like it's not it's not my business one way or the other I'm just here to kind of direct you towards what I think is going to help you long term but a lot of the people that coach those people but have competitive Backgrounds have a really difficult time with that they just can't wrap their head around the fact that someone wouldn't want to optimize what they're doing you know and I'm like dude it's not that big

of a deal like it's not that big of a deal you can they can do whatever they want I mean I'm I'm not going to recommend anyone do anything delarius if they general population but I'm also not I'm also not going to be like you have to be the biggest Strongest version of yourself like if you want to just be better than average good because you're still you're still you're still ahead of 80% of our fattest country in the world you know good for you man I give you props I think that's difficult I think

living and I know there will come a day where i'm not competing anymore and I've had to and I think that day will probably come sooner rather than later and I'm like I'm having To visualize what that's going to be and just let go of some things and understand I don't need to be 250 pounds or 240 pounds like I don't but it'll be hard but I think working with a lot of other people has helped me realize that it's okay and that there is a different life that you can live after um and so

that's why I do continue to work with that crowd that's why I continue to Sur myself with different demographics and get exposed I think the More situations you can be exposed to the better off you'll be yeah were there any topics you wanted to go over right didn't bring up um I know we talked about the the stool testing a little bit if you wanted to because we were talking about GI so just so people know because we kind of grazed over it slightly but if you are interested in that type of stuff there are

some because we talked about how blood work could give you some indication of some of those issues um There are some more specialized testing that we can use and that I do use often and that a lot of the practitioners I work with will use and that's uh so generally we do there's a couple different versions the one we often use is called a GI map so it's a diagnostic Solutions is the name of the company basically you collect a stool sample at home poop in a little tray yeah collect your [ __ ] you

know get it box it up send it out yep send it off to the lab so now This is different than what you would do at a gastro do because they're generally going to be testing for like infectious pathogens eoli they might test you for hpylori some stuff that's going to cause acute infection and make you sick um some may only test for blood or that the blood in the stools things like that what we're looking at is they it will test for those infectious pathogens but it also gives you a much broader scope of

immune markers that come out in the Stool um microbiome so commensal good and bad bacteria um parasites can show up on there yeast and fungal infections can show up on there they don't always but they can show up on there um other digestive markers like fat in the stools end pancreatic enzyme function um H pylori can show up on there infectious pathogens can show up on there um so you're getting a lot broader scope and so we can take that and we can create You know we can create a plan to to go ahead and

in in a really simplistic sense you're kind of killing the bad stuff and supporting and repopulating the good stuff I mean there's obviously a lot more to it yeah but that's kind of what most of those would entail to some extent is balancing out that microbiome so there are there are other options than just going to your doctor and getting put on a proton pump inhibitor and to not have acid reflux for the rest Of your life you know yeah so there's like there is a lot more in-depth stuff that you can do out there

that's a provides a long-term solution staying on that topic how would somebody go about because do they need to convince their doctor to actually have that done or do they just reach out to the company to do it so that's so the nice thing about it is it's it's very much like ordering private lab work you can actually buy the kits on your own Okay so it's nice so you can luckily in the US we have a lot of testing we have access to it's been tricky because I've been doing a lot more consults with

people in different countries where it's a lot harder to get but I've found that that company's pretty good we've been able to get them in Europe pretty easily Australia Canada um I was even able to get one in Poland the other day um didn't speak very good English but we we got it done um but they could reach out To someone like myself or any qualified practitioner and we can we can either so we do one of two things we either go through like a private website to order it you know you got like just

like you would order Labs same thing send the kit your house you do it you send it out then I would evaluate it we would work from there and it and that that's something I do for my ongoing clients but I also do like a lot of oneoff consultations with those I say oneoff But some of them are I I tell people caveat is I do recommend followup for yeah a lot of those because it's hard to just give you something and send you on your way and expect it to be like one and done

but but yeah I mean I I probably I bet you I probably look at but between my own clients and all the other coaches I help dude I probably look like 50 of those things a week well yeah I'll put this out there so much yeah I'll put this out there just for People who are thinking about this is I've had it done several times and I still remember the first time because you get the kit and like I don't want to do this you it's it's it's not as bad as you think it is

it's it's nothing even close to that you know you just it sits right on the toilet you sit down you [ __ ] like you would normally [ __ ] then you screw the top on the thing and you send it out it's not it's not what I thought I'm like man this is going to Smell up the whole bathroom I'm going to gag when I go to put the thing back on it's it's nothing nothing like that you know where after the first time Breeze you know not a big deal now had to get

a colon Emy because of one of those but that's a whole different and that wasn't even that bad either so yeah is what it is but that's what they found is found blood right hemorrhoid you know so yeah you know so that that's a interesting time period because they find that and It's like oh now you need to go do this you're like oh God I'm gonna die you know and is what it is and sometimes and I would say 90 95% of the time it's just all stuff we can fix I will say every

once in a great while I do catch something on there where I'm like I need to get you in with the specialist and get some Imaging done just to rule that out especially when you're getting into uh people that have a lot of inflammatory bowel disease because then We're getting in the risk of you know cancerous cells and stuff forming and so I will refer people out but I don't find I will say I find that stuff very seldom where it's to the point where I'm alarmed yeah well even in that case though the earlier

the better yeah where who knows how long that would have been until they would have actually had anything done yeah right years I mean it could have so if you're became way worse you know and no digestion is dynamic I Mean you can like we could go and do a two-hour leg workout and I could have diarrhea for two hours because we push too hard you know like that's it can happen but if you're someone that's having you know that's that's like pissing out your ass every day and you're you know and you never have

a form stool or you don't go to the bathroom for three days or you're chronically having acid reflux or something like reach out to somebody you Know there are solutions to that stuff and it's and it can make a huge difference and not only the way you feel obviously you feel a lot better less brain fog I mean systemic inflammation less joint pain better cognitive function better skin but also just there's risk of other you know that systemic inflammation is is a high risk factor of other potential autoimmune conditions and maybe even heaven forbid like

really serious stuff like disease And cancer and stuff over time and granted I'm not trying to scare anyone yeah because that's generally not the case but it can increase risk of some of those things well just from the Mead perspective you know if if there's too much inflammation your progress you're going to make in the gym is going to be less right fact for sure nobody's going to disagree with that and taking Advil is not an answer by the way um no you know well they people confuse that Anti-inflammatory you and it's not not the

same thing right um how can people go about finding you so I'm I'm pretty easy to find you can get me social media so on Instagram um Austin St and the number eight um in my bio a link tree so that would have like email to contact me any inquiries consult coaching mentorship just shoot me an email there's also link to like I have a YouTube channel I put a lot of videos on there's link to my Facebook on there I Put info on there's a link to my uh uh classes is on there so

that's all in in a store so you don't actually have to talk to me you can just go in and buy them and download them so like basically as long as you go there and go in the bio you can find everything well I know that you've been around a long time because I believe your email is still an AOL account OG email so I wouldn't change that because because that puts in the um that shows That you've been doing this for a long period of time yeah you know never going to change some people

have given me [ __ ] about it and I was like do you realize do you realize the authority that the AOL email gives me any final thoughts man appreciate you having me yeah I haven't been to the new gym yet so I was glad you know I was glad to invite I wish wish we would have had our other guests yeah unfortunately yeah yeah I felt bad Paul was Paul's Struggling but yeah I gave him some well wishes the other day um so his wife Olivia actually I helped her turn pro in Toronto so

she was a client she just got her ifbb Pro card she she won the overall at the Toronto proam in Wellness category so plug MH plug to her um so they're they're friends they they accommodated me gave me a hotel room all that stuff so that was my first time in Canada never I don't know why I would ever want to go to Canada but uh but no nothing really I I just keep an eye on my social media I post I give free content all the time I you know any classes I have like

anything I pretty much keep everything updated I post like every day all right well thank you for coming out it a great seeing you again and we're done cool all right guys thanks for watching the video to the end make sure to like And subscribe to the channel and click here here here or here for more videos