How to Create an Alter Ego // Todd Herman

get uniforms wear the same thing over and over and over again literally it's what the elite do like Mark Zuckerberg Steve Jobs Gates even does this Tom Ford Tom Ford who's in the fashion industry produces nothing but new fashion has been wearing the exact same black jacket white shirt black tie for two decades [Music] what's up everybody I'm Chris Ron co-founder and CEO of Tran yule and this's process makes perfect as always we're talking with experts in process creation automation and delegation basically the people that make business easier you just heard Todd Herman and this

episode is all about the process of building an alter-ego Todd Herman is an award-winning author performance advisor to athletes leaders and public figures and as the recipient of an Inc 500 fastest growing company award he's been featured on The Today Show sky business news Inked Magazine and CBC national news he's also the author of The Wall Street Journal best-selling book the alter ego effect which is the power of secret identities to transform your life and a team a book my team just read company-wide he lives in New York City with his young family but he's

calling in on this from Utah in a mountain home I loved this episode not just because I read the book which I think you should too but because Todd breaks down the process of creating one of these alter egos and why it's so impactful on your performance so a lot of times you hear these performance improvement coaches and they've got big philosophies but they don't have the tactical sequence of how you can do something to get a certain result and he talks about both the intrinsic and extrinsic motivators mentors alter egos and all the things

you can do to use your mindset to shift your performance I think you're gonna love this episode so stay tuned and let us know what you think can this business thrive without the owner you've got to start putting systems and processes in place if you don't use the system's the business will break we're always looking to buy back our time you cannot say something once and expect that it actually is received a big motivation and that for me is creating a job for myself that I really enjoy this is how you discover your vision and

this is process makes perfect welcome to process makes perfect I'm your host Chris Ramsey oh and as you heard in the intro today we're talking with Todd Herman Todd welcome my man it's good to be here and we're wearing matching glasses today I can't believe that when we first signed on we're like are those really the same thing so yes yeah crazy so this episode is sponsored by Warby Parker awesome we'll reach out to them so what we're gonna talk about today is the process of building an alter-ego your book the alter ego effect our

team actually our whole company just finished this book so it's really timely that we're talking I saw you speak live a couple months ago and loved your presentation so I'm excited to share this and I think right now it's more important than ever to understand the alter ego and the mindset that goes with that yeah absolutely I mean it's uh where I've sort of hung my hat for the last I mean I've had my performance coaching and training company for 22 years I'm starting out working with athletes and pro athletes and Olympic athletes and then

it evolved into another arm branched out working with CEOs leaders and entrepreneurs and just in the process of me working with higher and higher caliber athletes this sort of golden thread was starting to be revealed amongst the athletes that were consistently performing at higher levels than everyone else and because I was working in not just one sport this is what kind of allowed me to sort of see this common mental tool that everyone was using and it was that they would say things I got got this performance identity I got this person they step into

I've got this you know switch that I flick and and for me it was always one of those things where I'd say oh that's fascinating because I you know I played college football I was you know I had a bunch of scholarships I was a nationally ranked badminton player as well and you know someone sitting there going back I've been sitting in football that sounds like two sports that don't they definitely kind of work out of hand but I mean I just loved I mean any chance I could get to compete that's just what I

love doing as a kid when I was growing up on our farm and ranch in the middle of nowhere a chance I could kind of get away and go and play sports it was all for me I was I was like oh that's interesting because I did the exact same thing my alter ego was Geronimo in the football field and and and then I was like wait a second there's actually and I went back through all my notes on all these athletes and again like I'm now up to just coming up on 18,000 hours working

with people one on one not that's not counting group or speeches that I've done all around the world and globe and stuff and so I started unpacking this process for how do you do this and you know how do you consistently kind of trigger this and then I got into even the historical context of it which is that man this exactly been used and referenced hundreds and thousands of times by really amazing public figures and leaders Martin Luther King talked what Oprah Winfrey's actually mentioned it it's just that they don't unpack it in a way

where people go oh that's the thing I should go and use it's more of just a very conversational device so on it's like in the same way that your career kind of unfolded and these things don't uncover themselves I was reading the book and felt like that experience was fast forwarded through me and I'm thinking like through my whole life of all these little moments where I was trying to you know beast be like someone else and and how that gave me superhuman powers so let's get into it on the cover of the book later

before you go into that that's interesting what I want to ask you is when you were doing that though did you feel like you were being a little disingenuous or fake or inauthentic because you were using that as your own mental device to get better I don't think I did and I was trying to process why I felt like I I you know I'd watch a TV show like an example I gave my team was if you've ever seen Saved by the Bell and Zack Morris like Zack Morris was my guy in in middle school

and growing up I was like uh slamming the locker I want to be like him so you know I'd walk through a crowded hallway and kind of take on that persona and in it until I grew into it and so I don't yeah I think it was negative but but I never really thought about how much I've done that in my life but that's my point to people because some people are so they hear this and they're like okay I get it like people get the concept right away that's why it's helped with the books

kind of the book kind of flying off its shelves but some people when they're reading it they're like a little bit shy about letting other people know that they're reading it because they feel like it's some signal device that you're trying to be something that you're not and yet it's actually baked into our human psychology it's just how human beings work we all need a model in our own mind to help us move into or grow into the next version of ourself like we all know intellectually that who I was ten years ago is different

than who I was today that's why it can frustrate us when we go back to family and friends who treat us like we were when we were fifteen or sixteen because you're like you realize that I'm not 15 anymore right that's and and so the people who operate at the elite levels they latch on to these mental tools and they just go with them whereas people who sit in what I call the average middle they get so caught up in paradigms and concerns about what other people are thinking of them and that's the point of

one of the reasons why this is such a powerful way to navigate change really really quickly yeah absolutely so I want to get into all the deep questions but I think for anyone that hasn't read the book we're wearing the glasses there's glasses on the cover you mentioned the historical references so can you just share really quick what that story's about and and what it means to kind of take on the the persona of someone else yeah so do you want my story or do you want the story like why the glasses are there yeah

well they're related I think they are yeah well when when when people get into the book because you think about maybe Superman and Clark Kent and so you know like oh yeah putting on the glasses Superman used Clark Kent as his alter ego because really the real the real individual was Superman the person with all the superpowers any wore the glasses to navigate the world and blend in and you know have a more muted personality I guess and that's actually my my sort of my point to many people is the version of you oftentimes that's

walking around isn't the real you the real you is nested underneath a whole bunch of like beliefs and paradigms and stories and narratives about things that happen to you and and they end up trapping you and maybe wanting to impress other people or being concerned about judgment and and all that stuff creates what I call in Chapter three the trap itself right because and the reason I say it's the trap self is that's the number one word that's been used by people when they say that like I just like can't get like I just can't

seem to show up or like I'm just not taking the actions and that's what feels it feels like you're in a prison it's trapping you and and so Superman is the real version and that's what I say the people is like there is this that's why I call it the heroic self there's the hero inside and sometimes it's hard for you to just get it out there you know you hear these great terms or phrases that are used like wait you're just gonna have the real you or bring you real Orien just be your authentic

self all lovely ideas but they crumble on the field of play of action they just have a hard time getting out there but the alter ego which was a concept that was first phrased in 44 BC by Cicero where he said the in a letter to a friend and again this is Cicero is widely known as one of the greatest Roman statesman and philosophers to ever live so one of the wisest people of that time said in a letter to a friend one who's giving him sort of basically life advice talking about the alter ego

and how it's the trusted friend or other eye within and it's a really useful kind of frame for people to think about because we all know that you know you know this Chris as you like scaled your business and grown that after a while you're like oh wait a second by me simply trying to carry up the load of these goals and ambitions up the hill by myself that's a really hard way to do it and and then you're like listen I know that the better the quality of the network that I have the relationships

the friends the more that I can just pick up my phone and make a quick text message to a friend who can solve a problem or open a door or whatever for me that's gonna accelerate success so we all know that having an amazing group of mentors friends acquaintances around us helps us accelerate success makes it easier gives it more joy as well but people don't think about navigating the six inches between their ears the same way and that's truly what an alter ego is is it's a model that you have within for how you

want to be showing up and it's inspired by maybe someone or something else that you admire already and it's so useful for the brain because 75% of our brain is dedicated to the visual cortex and and by having a very clear image of how you want to be showing up allows you to disassociate this other image of what you think you are now and allows you to step into a new Association which then accelerates the pathway to success but then the thing that's unique about what I walk through in the process in the way that

I work with people is there's a whole bunch of other psychological switches behavioral switches that are embedded within all of us that I want to flick with the process that I teach that allows you to truly honor the idea that's up here and allow you to stay consistent with showing up that way and just like you said you said it perfectly before I became that person you know I was acting finally I became that person that's the beauty of this is you evolve into this new version of yourself and then in which which did what

allowed you to you know live the way that you wanted to live or act whether you wanted to act and invite new experiences in so so the glasses itself I used them for me when I first got into business when I was 21 like when I say business getting into like starting my business I was super insecure about how young I looked I was 21 looked like I was 12 and I was starting this performance business I didn't have a bunch of degrees behind my name I didn't have a bunch of best-selling books so you

know I had this terrible psychology that was stopping me from taking the actions I needed to take to book workshops or reach out to people to get a speaking gig or something to just like a negative self-talk you just had that story running yeah it was just it wasn't just negative self-talk because even negative self-talk a lot of people get concerned about negative self-talk Dave Attell talk it's supposed to be there actually because it's just the activity of the mind the activity the minds job is to produce activity thoughts that's like begrudging the heart for

beating right it's just there's pause where they're doing the problem that people could fall into is they engage with the negative self-talk thinking that it's really them what I was with the psychology that I had was actually more of a total paradigm like it was a philosophy of only the people who had books on shelves were successful or had the authority to talk about these things only the people who had multiple degrees should be out there speaking on this topics because I have degrees I you know I had played college football and then I ended

after my first year because I busted up my knee really badly couldn't play again but the reality was I did have a really powerful process for the mental game because I'm not physically gifted I'm not six foot four and 205 pounds on the football field but I played in the zone and flow state consistently so I had actually discovered this sort of process that you go through to get into it and then when I got done playing I volunteered at a high school was working with the defensive backs there and I'd spend way more time

I'm like listen you need better routines like you need to have better game prep process you need to set some goals for yourself you need to stay committed to the person that you want to be when you get onto that field you need some breathing strategies and I was just going because I just worked out all this stuff for myself and kids started getting really good results and I was good at that um but I wasn't a sports psychologist and and that and that's wasn't what I was trying to do anyway so he's my point

was was I was resisting against doing the things I needed to do and then I remembered wait a second I used Geronimo in the football field why didn't I use that for helping me to navigate this new world I'm going into and I thought he will draw them away and custom-built for being an entrepreneur he's definitely built for playing football you need something else needed something else yeah and I took the inspiration I was like okay well that alter ego was a model being inspired from Ronnie Lott Walter Payton and five Native American warriors and

I can unpack maybe that later so like how I stepped into that from a visualization standpoint and then I was like okay well who would be my sources source code that's kind of what I call it my source code my source of inspiration and it was Joseph Campbell who wrote the hero's journey and some phenomenal pathologists I just loved his stuff he's actually the inspiration for the creation of Star Wars from George Lucas and Benjamin Franklin I mean I would probably put myself up against anyone else in the planet for reading Benjamin Franklin's biography more

than anyone and so him and then the third one was Superman and I was like okay well I had my uniform in the football field I have to have my uniform in in business and I went on about a pair of non prescription glasses at LensCrafters in West Edmonton Mall where I was living at time and this is important I want to point out you didn't need glasses right this no I'm not prescription so fake glasses and this is long before Warby Parker and others made wearing glasses just a cool accessory and even when I

went into the optometrist was like yeah but you've got 2015 vision like you got perfect vision and I'm like can you just shut up and give me the glasses please and it was because my association with glasses was that people who wore them and this is actually based on my own personal history the smartest kid in my class my best friend growing up in Schuler Alberta Canada a population of 85 people he had glasses he actually won the National math test and so glass is equals smart I wanted to be more smart I wanted to

you know really own that space so that's what I went and I put on those glasses and I had to step into really embodying the spirit and the traits and the abilities of Superman Joseph Campbell Benjamin Franklin and you got a process for this I mean the glasses are a totem or that's an artifact you put it on and you kind of embody those characteristics I think people have been doing this though for a long time consciously by picking certain brands right you pick a brand that has baked into it some characteristics or they've got

some spokesperson that you want to be like that's the reason I would buy Air Jordan shoes when I was playing basketball and feel like I could jump higher you know like I'm take on a little bit of that persona and and scientifically psychologically what you're actually tapping into is a concept called enclosed cognition and enclosed cognition is that we as human beings we attach story narrative and meaning to the clothing that other people wear and that we wear okay now the trick with this how it turns into include cognition is because we do that if

we were to wear that thing we actually unconsciously start to exhibit the traits the qualities and the attributes of that item and there's a great stuff that was done at the Kellogg School of Management where they were testing this theory of enclosed cognition so they brought a bunch of students into a room and they did this eye color test where you've got the word of a color yellow but it's done or it's colored differently so you but it's actually the the letters are written in orange and then you've got blue but it's written in green

and the and the test was you had to go through and say the words or you had to say the color that you're seeing not the word because your your brain sees the word processes the word before the color and so if the order was blue but it was in yellow you had to say yellow and so what they did was they had a whole bunch of these on there and they tracked how many mistakes you made and how quickly you were able to get it done so the first group that come in plain clothes

they do it track the data they leave next group comes in and they gave them a white coat and they tell him as a white painter's coat and had to put it on and then they did it track the data they leave then the next group comes in hand them the exact same white coat except this time they told them it was a lab coat or a doctor's coat so they put on the doctor's coat or lab coat and then they do it so what were the results the people who had the painters coat on

and were in the plain clothes had the exact same data no difference but the people who were the lab coat a doctor's coat they were able to get that test done in less than half the time and made less than half the mistakes why so why is that they enclosed themselves in the cognitive traits and abilities of someone who's a doctor or a lab person which is detailed methodical and careful all three traits that helps you to do what the test that you were just given so our clothing lives in context as well to the

skills or things that we're trying to bring to the table and so when you think when you know this about like I mean I'm just fascinated with the realities of how our brain works that's why problem with person want myself help spaces they're actually pushing a lot of paradigms on people that break underneath the psychological structure of how we're how we're built so that's why I like a lot of our training doesn't look like a lot of stuff that you hear in self-help books like affirmations affirmations is very contextual it's very dangerous in fact it

can actually cause people to go into depressions if you use affirmations that's why there's no one-size-fits-all with the stuff so so the enclosed cognition you know it's it's funny or should we give everyone permission to go on a shopping spree and buy some things the just level up their life is that is that how to pretend it and actually yeah I'm gonna save you money get uniforms wear the same thing over and over and over again literally it's what the elite do like Mark Zuckerberg see you jobs gates even does this Tom Ford Tom Ford

who's in the fashion industry produces nothing but new fashion has been wearing the exact same black jacket white shirt black tie for two decades you know there's there's so much truth to this though I remember like years ago when I was consulting I walked into a client's office and I had these like little holes at the bottom of my shirt from washing my clothes too many times or something and he was like am I not paying you enough that you can't have clothes and so I went out that weekend and I was embarrassed and I

bought like all this nice stuff and I literally felt better about raising my prices because I was wearing stuff that I felt proud of so I think there's there's real truth there so so let's shift gears a little bit because I think everybody understands this concept and how you can trigger it and step onto your field to play so we're going through a crazy world right now with kovat 19 and I found out early in our call that you were actually one of the first person to get this which blew my mind so first I

I want to hear like how that's been for you and second how do you use these alter-ego tools or mindset shifts to get through something like that yeah it's you're right it's fascinating time and I was one of the first cases in the New York area so we live in New York City right now we're actually in Utah at a my friend's mountain big mountain lodge that he's got so we escaped New York after we were through it but first I got it because I actually had also 2024 my health perspective has been a lot

of you know kicks in the groin almost because I ruptured my Achilles middle of February doing American Ninja Warrior training with my daughter and winning when I went to the hospital to get the surgery that's when I actually contracted the corona virus was actually at the hospital so that was at the end of February and so I was I was we were always you know this is my overachiever I was always ahead of the curve so we were in lockdown before there was an actual lockdown and but my experience I lost 19 pounds in two

days because mine started with horrible flu that's is that's not for everybody and then it's settled into my lungs and took about three weeks for it for me to get over the virus however I was just seeing that talking to saw the doctor the other day and right now my lungs look like someone who was smoking for 50 years so I did a lot of damage on the side like and it'll I'll recover from it but it's definitely a different experience so it's caused a lot of fatigue issues and again I want to say to

everybody everybody's what's crazy about this thing is everyone's response to it is so different my wife when she got it because you know we're in a you know apartment in New York City it's impossible to basically isolates someone there so my all through my kids got it they were all done it and a build a day day and a half my wife she lasted about six days with it I'm the one who got it the worst but the fatigue and then the other side of it is it's actually created for some of us a lot

of brain fog as well almost like the same feeling as if you were in a depression so yeah it's it's been strange what's been more strange is really just the societal response but when you understand human behavior it makes sense because a lot of people who are whether they're dismissing it and again this is this is a complex issue you know everyone's saying that there's just one way to do it they just don't understand like it's complex there has to be trade-offs that happen I don't know if this is the best response locking everybody down

and then you know completely ruining an economy because on the flip side of it you know there's going to be an there is a massive mental health crisis and because I work on mindset stuff and I've been doing this study right now of 92 CEOs and how they're responding and reacting to this crisis yeah really so I read through this article on LinkedIn and I'd love you to focus on that just the the the difference between a CEO that you're finding is just engulfed in fear or just kind of blurry and don't know what they're

doing verse someone that is real strategic like how do you make that shift if you are stuck or in a fog right now well one thing the easiest if there's if there's one commonality the people who are being the most strategic right now because so to break it down in this study that I've got going on and they have to fill out stuff for me every single week and only six of them knew me beforehand that's key because I didn't want to muddy the statistics that I'm gonna get out of this by people just my

my stuff so so there's three distinct groups there's a fear focused group there is a unfocused group and there is a strategy focused group and the unfocused group it's the kind of qualities that they have been brought in that I've been coming up is more they're dismissive about this and they're the ones who are most almost caught in a purgatory of inaction like they're trying to find a plan and they're not making a decision on a plant they're just not making decisions they're sort of indecision overwhelmed but in the strategy side if there's a huge

difference one of the huge differences between how they're responding and how other people responding is they are most leaning on their strategic networks so they're people like other people that they have so whether that's having more conversations with peers that are in their peers not people peers other CEOs other leaders other founders just to hear how other people are navigating it and what this is actually doing is it's satisfying one of the base human needs when going through crisis I have this model called the calm model C ALM which is in in times of uncertainty

volatility ambiguity and complexity you need to have clarity there's a need for clarity like okay what's this about like how can I the second one and this is the getting to the hole why navigating this with other people is important is people have a need for assurance reassurance so I don't know about you but because again it can feel like ah the great thing about this time though is this is happening to everybody right so the hole there is hard to play a ready party for yourself because it's happening oh yeah it's universal and it's

this is the I don't know other besides the flu epidemic that or pandemic that happened in the 1920s even the world war what 1 & 2 happened it didn't happen for every country but this is a global thing so it's a shared experience amongst everybody so this assurance and reassurance when you come in and you have a conversation like if you and I are just chatting about just how's business with you and has business with me how are you navigating it there's a comfort that happens that's the need then so the realness so the assurance

creates a feeling of okay comfort okay and and so that's important so the people who are navigating as well are leading on those networks so if they were already inside of communities and groups those are the ones who accelerated out of and into new plans of action faster than others so if you if you weren't a part of whether it's you know why you know YPO young you know master yeah what CEO visited why all those things or we're having a if you weren't involved in mentorship and coaching if you didn't have like I mean

I'm I always have at least three mentors and coaches that I'm working at one time yeah so so that's that's a key thing the other side of it though is because there is so much volatility it is so easy for people to fall into fear-based thinking it's attacking a lot of people's identities right now because maybe financials have been hit and for men especially because we live through archetypes of where the providers when going through crisis this goes this this triggers the lizard brain right so we go into fight or flight mode what it also

triggers is it triggers are sort of baseline archetypes women because I have the data on this are triggered to move into caregiver mode you're trying to take care of people and Men it triggers their provider mode and so if your finances have been hit by this you feel like you're failing as a human being and this is this is where the mental toolkits that I give people help to navigate this whether it's using an alter-ego it's like okay in crisis mode who would who would mind be so mine one of my core inspirations is Winston

Churchill I love mr. Churchill so even me I'm in in my own mind I'm constantly modeling the idea of how Winston Churchill navigated World War two because because this is actually this our economy doesn't map to the Great Depression everyone keeps on bringing that know this maps to wartime this Maps this is a wartime economy and because during the Great Depression it's the it's a diff type of settling in that's happening on the on the society in wartime there are forced closures there are there's movement of assets here and resources here to to deploy and

that's what's happening right now so you almost create a separate alter-ego for this situation then right because it's not like you have this alter ego and try to think through well how would that person deal with kovat 19 maybe but maybe you're piecing something new together to give you the tools to get out of this yeah yeah I'm trying to find patterns so what would land again this is how I think I know never has to do this but I I go to okay this is wartime who is one of the greatest leaders during wartime

Winston Churchill boom and so I don't necessarily have to just use him I can bring him into my suite of characters that I use in my own mind because again this is it's it's it is a hallmark of phenomenally succumb and talked about this he's the leader of JPMorgan Chase talks about his own a Board of Directors in his own mind that he goes to to think through things and that's and that's really what that's that's an example of using an alter ego so I mean for everyone that's listening and alter egos something you can

use in good times and in bad it powers your performance it fuels you out of problem and problematic issues like these but you know for anyone that's listening you can probably tell Todd is a process guy he has a process for developing all days he's got a process for using them to enhance your performance and he's even been putting out awesome videos recently so check out his framework he made on clarity decision why great video i watch that yeah thanks for that I know we don't have too much time left but can we get go

into rapid-fire answer on five questions do it alright let's go what's a brand you think has perfected its process brand that's perfected its process good question I would I would go with I merely go to say Porsche mmm I haven't heard that one yeah you know because I now I'm actually not a process guy I learned it because it's a necessary part of excelling in life period right like so I'm very much creative person but if I wanted to create a repeatable outcome with my clients I needed to have a process so I mean that's

why I love your guys stuff and I'm Porsche is one of my favorite cars that's out there and I love watching the documentaries on how they put together their assembly lines and so they've got so that when I think of like a company that's perfected their process also the thing that's unique about Porsche is that they're one of the few vehicle companies that's out there that you can you can take a look at the style of a 911 now and the style of a 911 in 1951 and the process it links together like a beautiful

daisy chain mmm I'll ask you about the documentary later that sounds awful who is someone that's coached or mentored you many people I would say the most impactful one would be Harvey Dorfman who was the king of the mental game world who truly was the master he literally wrote the Bible of the industry called coaching the mental game he's known as the Yoda of baseball every single major league baseball team every single major major like elite Major League Baseball player was his mentor and I went and studied with him for 33 days at his home

in North Carolina so I could tuck myself under his wing and I'm a big believer in apprenticeship I think it's the most lost accelerant to success that people don't get people wanna just it's fast food mentality I'm gonna just call myself an XYZ in my LinkedIn profile as opposed to going and tucking myself under Chris's wing for a year if your aspiration is to run a SAS company and again like there's I know a lot of leaders who they don't want people like that and I'm like listen if I've got someone who's a shooting star

they're ambitious if I can capture some of the magic of that shooting star for six months inside of my company and I'm good to that person that person is a shooting star they're never gonna forget where they came from and you might have a few people who are psychotic in some way who will who are gonna forget but yeah so anyways Harvey Dorfman tuck yourself under so much I love that okay favorite book other than your own a seeking wisdom from Darwin to monger amazing book lot on mental models would probably you know be if

people are listening to to you and our trainable customers and stuff they would get a lot out of it mental models helps you navigate life with speed oh I love that all right two more most entertaining person you follow online most entertaining person oh I don't follow that many people online i but I do it's it's probably it's maybe a The Rock I just find him fascinating you mentioned him in a book I my kids are super into Moana so they I've been talking to them about him and I'm like no you don't understand it's

like this guy not yes yeah that's funny yeah big wave big wave is his character and actually mention it yeah I mention it in the book Kevin Hart I find fascinating I'm a big comedy guy so I love following like C Bert Kreischer he's another community machine alright last one what's one app you can't live without one app I can't live without would be any audio recording app any audio recording app so part of my process is because I'm massively extroverted and anytime I need to create something I'm a huge when you're extrovert you're typically

a huge relationship person I never work in isolation that's the if you want to create a prison for me it's ask Todd to write something by himself so and and I like to speak out loud so auditory stuff and then I send it up into our whether it's you know a sauna that we use or whatever and then that stuff gets put into you know SOPs and stuff for us awesome great process alright well we'll link all those up in the show notes Todd I really appreciate you spending some time coming in here from your

mountain home and Utada to chat with us for everyone listening be sure to check out the book I've got it in hard copy and on the iPad so I can highlight the heck out of everything and search for for the keywords so that's my process that's awesome where can people find you if they want to connect after this my home based on the interwebs is Todd Herman taught me and that kinda gets gets you to navigate towards all the different training resource and companies that that we've got and then links to social media their Facebook

Instagram LinkedIn as well so Todd Herman dot me and then for the book if you want more resources alter-ego effect calm great and if you're listening and you develop your own alter ego I want to hear about it so comment on this or send us a note and we can promote that after the fact Todd thanks again your chap hey thanks for listening to process makes perfect if you're watching on YouTube we do have an audio version available everywhere you listen to your podcast so be sure to check that out if you liked what you

heard please leave a review and be sure to subscribe to the channel here and we'd love if you would tell a few friends or family or anyone you think that could benefit from this you can find me on social media anywhere at Chris Ron Zeo or the company trained Ewell that's trained you al like a training manual at trained Ewell anywhere you want to follow us thanks for watching we'll see you next time