What a Sales VP at a $1.5B Organization Knows That Most Leaders Don’t

I'm not a sales leader. I'm an operator. And that's what makes me very different. I've been a sales leader, a COO. I've run revops and products and finance, right? So now I have a very different approach to the way that I think about total go to market. I truly deep down believe that you are a lion or a zebra. Like through and through. Either you love the thrill of the kill and release or you love to build relationships over time and manage them. When you combine that hunter and farmer role into one, I believe you

lose the best of one side of the coin or the other. People fight with me on this one is they're like, "No, I can do both." And I'm like, "Cool, that's not what I said." I bet you that you are better at one over the other. And when you are better at one thing, you want to do more of that thing. So the other side will suffer. [Music] [Music] >> You're listening to the Revenue Vault, the show for sales leaders who architect unstoppable revenue engines. I'm Marcus Shan, CEO of Benley Consulting, and I'm obsessed with

helping CRO's, VPs, and GTM professionals engineer performance at scale. Today, we skip the theory and dive straight into the tactical playbook of leaders who consistently exceed quote. If you're ready to build a bulletproof systems that deliver pipeline velocity and predictable results, you're in the right place. Our guest today is Stephanie Valenci, CRO Bill.com, a $ 1.5 billion year fintech powerhouse. Now, Stephanie isn't your typical sales leader. She's what she calls an operator who's run everything from marketing to revops to finance. At bill.com, she manages complex revenue motions, including trials, direct sales, and channel partnerships while

leading over tuner reps across multiple segments. Now, here's what makes Stephanie dangerous. She conducted over 2001 ones in 15 minutes each when she started build.com and then use that intel to completely rebuild their goto market foundation. Her approach, stop treating sales like an art and start treating like an engineering problem. In this episode, we dissect her controversial take on why you're either a lion or zebra in sales and why you can't be both. Her systematic approach to diagnosing performance issues using data before people and the exact change management framework she uses to roll out new

processes without the typical flavor of the month failures. Plus, she reveals the one metric she obsesses over that most leaders completely ignore and how it's completely transformed her team's results. Ready to think like an operator instead of just another sales leader? Let's build. So, Stephanie, what makes your approach to sales leadership different from others you think you've worked with or observed in the past? >> H, it's such a big question, right? I think the world the word sales leadership encompasses so many things. If I was asked this question say 10 years ago, I would have

a totally different answer. But today, what I would say is I'm not a sales leader, I'm an operator. And that's what makes me very different, right? I've been a sales leader. I've been a COO and run the other side of departments. I've run revops and products and finance, right? And so now I have a very different approach to the way that I think about total go to market. I do believe and talk about it all the time is go to market as a whole and selling as a whole is everyone's responsibility not just the sales

leader and so that's why I do think taking that operator approach is a differentiator >> you know I I love that so much and in the book made ma made by America I think it's made by America it's about Sam Ultimate not Sam Ultimate it's about the Walmart Sam Walton the Walmart >> yeah yeah yeah >> and he talks about there's like eyesshaped people like T-shaped eye shapes like you really get a one function like sales T-shaped is like you are really a one function but you understand the other departments so much better >> and

the T's are like the best recruits the best people to work with and and all that jazz because you see like a different scope >> so because of that how have you seen that way of thinking where you had the operator mindset >> impact like the some of the sales teams and and what was some of their reaction because it's always interesting to see that perspective. >> Yeah. Yeah. again like in my most recent role. So right now I'm at bill.com. So you sometimes you have to say the com afterwards but that's a large organization

right like so I've done the PE stuff I'm now with a large organization and in this organization having that operator mindset is very diff it was very different for the sales organization they had not had an operator in that role and I think it's rare across public companies in general right generally you grow up in a public company you stay in your practice you stay in your department you grow and I had took from smaller companies and come in And so I think that alone was very different. It's like whoa, you know how to speak

marketing's language. Oh wait, like you're thinking about Revox and scale and like things in a very different way than maybe like leaders in the past were, right? So I'm not coming in and saying um only focusing on the art of the deal or your conversion rate or right. I'm thinking bigger and trying to move us forward. One of the first things I always do is go across the sales organization and say in one-on- ons, so like in this role, it was at 200 one-on ones for 15 minutes. And it was like if you have a

magic wand and you could change one thing, what would it be? And consolidating that information to make their job better, right? and then applying that into operating principles was a huge move in both change management but also again in that operator mindset opposed to just send me your best deal, right? Or send me your one deal that you won that you're proud of. There's some of that, but how do I help them really operate like a scalable machine is generally my go. I'd say like the bigger impact of that was with my crossf functional partners

who were not used to having a partner that could dig into their business, right? Like because I had an opportunity to run marketing, I can not only ask the right questions, but also offer ideas and suggestions on way that we can partner better by you and use their language, not mine, not that sales language. And so that was a that was a big difference as well. I can see why I like you so much because we think very similarly you know it's you know I ran full P&Ls forever. >> So going into orgs and actually

full understand other departments and having full P&L responsibility where my comp plan's tied to it >> and I'm looking at a whole bigger picture of everything and I'm not just trying to get a deal done. I'm trying to make sure it's a win across the whole spear. >> Yeah. >> I have found that when you're able to talk to other departments, you gain a lot of trust, right? because they they they're like, "Oh, this person gets me." You know, and I'm really curious for you. >> Obviously, you did some of these other roles, which I

think is amazing. For some of those other CRO or sales VPs who've only stay in that sales realm, how do you think they could improve that level of business acumen and operate operational thinking even inside the scope of their job? >> So, I teach CRO, I have all of these classes, right, in different communities. And I I talk about this all the time. It goes back to the first thing I said of revenue is a team sport. But in order to make it a team sport, it's actually up to the CRO to position it to

be so. Right? If the CRO, let's even say forecasting for example. If the CEO comes to the CRO and says, "Hey, like how much money do you need in in headcount dollars in budget to be able to hit your goal?" And they say, "Oh, well, I need this much heads." and they go in their hole and they do a sales capacity model and they do what they need over at their desk and then they just present it. Well, guess who's responsible for the number, right? The CRO. If instead you get the entire executive team together,

you show what a bottoms up model from marketing and product and pull all those data data pieces together and you say is if we do nothing, here's what's going to happen. Now how we as a team come together to really solve this problem to really grow the way we want to grow. Let's start looking at each individual department on what our contribution is to this number. And surprisingly like it's HR, it's product, it's every department has a hand. And so one of the number one things I could say is like involve others and prompt others

to be involved in your business. And that's that's a wonderful way to learn, but also get like accountability from your peers so that it's not all sitting on your shoulders. The other piece is like as a sales leader, you should be good at this already. Curiosity is king in sales, but it's also king of the CRO. And so, anytime someone says something or you don't understand, ask questions. You don't have to be an expert. You don't have to wear the ego thing on your shoulder. Say, "Hey, I've never been exposed to this before. Like, why

do we do this? How do we do it? Can you share why you think this is going to work? And and people love talking about their business and what they're doing. So, lots of questions work as well. >> Yeah, I love that so much, right? Because it's um you know, if you want to actually influence change, you have to get people involved instead instead of a top down approach, you're getting other department heads, other leaders, executive department heads into the conversation so they have more buy in. And I love that. And what when I think

about today especially in today's you know time selling time for a lot of like sellers and sales leaders we know there's they have to sell to like not usually other sales people to like operators >> CFO COO sea level execs and that's like not their language and I have found personally because I was an operator. >> Yeah. >> I was able to help trans teach them and guide them the reps to sell like like a business person versus just another rep. >> Yes. >> How are you doing that because you've changed a couple different orgs.

How are you doing that same thing to help get the reps ready so they can have these business conversations and improve their financial act? >> Gosh, it's a good question. And especially in them today, I mean, we're selling to the financial office. They don't want slough in the financial office. I mean, we're when I used to sell more into the marketing group, you could do a lot of that upfront relationship building and right more of the cander and they're used to more of that sales like pretty pitch decks and stuff. Finance office, no. Like they

don't want that. And so really making sure that we're teaching and educating our team on product right first and foremost. Um if you're selling a financial automation software you better believe you know that product inside and out. So we have a lot of product training a lot of focus on understanding the solutions and the problems that we're solving. So that's a big one. But then basic financial acumen. You know, it's something I am a big proponent if you do follow me on LinkedIn. Like I am not someone that will only um hire from industry. I

myself like have a crazy background. Um and I'm in fintech and there is nothing on my resume that would have said that I should be here. And so but we do interview for business acumen and that is something that you can teach over time, but if you come in with strong business acumen and understanding that is truly a differentiator. So those are just a couple things that that we're doing. that and it's so key, right? Because um many reps don't have financial acu especially they only sold to maybe certain personas, right? >> Yeah. >> What

are maybe some ways you found valuable or helpful in in your interview process to help kind of vet somebody out to see if they have a >> interviewing is my absolute favorite thing because I don't sell that much anymore, right? I get customerf facing for feedback and issues and stuff, but I don't sell. And so, um, I love interviewing. It's my one opportunity to get, um, my discovery hat on, my sales hat on, and ask a whole lot of questions. And so, for me, really diving in and asking questions about basic things in life can

really really share like transparently where people at on their acumen and their communication. So, for example, I can say, "Hey, talk to me about college." like when you were in college, what was your experience? And I'm They don't know what I'm trying to find or dig for. It's a really like authentic conversation when in reality what I'm trying to get to is like what did your day look like? Did you ever have to like did you ever run out of like your feed card? Did you ever have to did you ever have to ask mom

and dad for extra money? Like what did that look like? Did you have to create a budget? Now, there are a lot of ways I've asked that question, but that's an example of like just a fun way you can start to get information from people without asking the question directly. >> You know, I love that so much because it's not like those silly questions where it's like, hey, how many jelly beans are in the world? You know, you like a thought process behind it because you want to get to the point of like, hey, how

do you actually manage your own personal finances? Yeah. Because if you already think that way, you know, it's obviously far easier whether or not they have strong P&L acument, cash flow, whether they can read 10K report or earnings transcript, you know, or income statement doesn't really matter as much. They already think that way. You could probably teach them other things if you need to. So, I I love that, >> you know, and I think that's really valuable, especially from a mind of an operator like this way. What's maybe one belief you hold about leading a

sales or that you think some might disagree with? Oh gosh, there are so many. I get push back on all of the classes. I like this is my opinion and all all of the reasons in the messaging why this or that is not the right opinion. I think there are two that like really stand out. The first one is I truly deep down believe that you are a lion or a zebra like through and through. And what I mean by that is either you love the thrill of the kill and release or you love to

build relationships over time and manage them and you're able to see like more of that farm, right? And so when you combine that hunter and farmer role into one where you're not only acquiring, closing, and then managing long term, I believe you lose the best of one side of the coin or the other. So, I stand by that. Um, I've done both and every time I go back to splitting those roles into two. >> Yeah, I think it's really hard to have that one single role for I I agree. It's like it's a different way

of thinking >> in their instincts, their operating pattern, their level of urgency, their level of like aggression, you know, like I mean there's some people who are just frankly they're wired >> to be hunters, to be that lion like >> like doesn't matter. they'll you'll get it and they'll find a way versus some other people you put in another role. And it's interesting that you bring it up because I'm sure you've seen this too where >> you might have someone that's an amazing like they're a great person, they're not performing that role >> and they

just kind of shift them into maybe like a zebra role, if you will, and they're like the best rep ever because they're just, you know, >> I know. So, the reason people fight with me on this one is they're like, "No, I can do both." And I'm like, "Cool, that's not what I said, right?" It's not that you cannot do both. It's that I bet you that you are better at one over the other. And when you are better at one thing, guess what? You want to do more of that thing. So the other side

will suffer, right? Are you Marcus? Are you a hunter or a farmer? Are you a lion or a zebra? >> Yeah, I'm a lion. >> Oh, me too. Through and throw. >> Through, you know, I I never never thought I was. And I remember like I had to take some tests where they're like, "Yeah, I I can do both. I know. I can." you know, but they're like, "Yeah, you're you're pretty intense. You're definitely a hunter." You know, which made it suddenly made sense because like, >> you know, I've always seen hunters or the lions

to be creators. They make they make something from nothing, which I think often makes them naturally easy go to entrepreneurship and to do their own thing. >> For sure. >> Because they're used to like, "Give me ground zero, baby. Let's go build, you know, like doesn't matter, you know, like don't give me like ourselves." Yeah, that's the >> So, uh, yeah, we're actually a little bit insane, too. I said the other part, too. We don't stop. We don't stop, you know. So, yeah, it drives my wife crazy, but it's it all it all worked out.

Um, >> that's so good. So good. >> Now, going into into like, you know, you're bringing people in, right? So, obviously, you know, you love the hiring piece and and I'm curious, so people have an understanding, especially at Bill, what's maybe the current revenue motion from like lead to close deal? >> Yeah. Cool. So, um, I run two different partners and channel motions as well as a direct motion for simplicity. I'm just going to share the direct one because it gets a little bit messy on the other sides, but >> humid. >> Yeah. In our

direct business, we have two motions, right? We have our trial business where people are coming to the website. They're trying out a trial and maybe they got to the website from an ad, right, or a social um, you know, instance or an event, but they get onto that website and they say, "I want to enter into a trial." So those leads then get sent into our direct team based on employee count. So we have a small SMB team, a mid-market team, um, and a growth team. And so those are segmented and then in the trial

the rep's responsibility is to immediately as fast as possible very fast speed to lead responded to that trial and say I' I've noticed that you're interested right in Bill etc etc really beautiful sequence um but can't wait to jump in and help and better understand your needs and then they're responsible for doing some discovery supporting them at that discovery to bring them over to some pricing which in a trial you already have the opportunity to see and then to if needed really send them over to our implementation team um to go ahead and get them

started. For more complex deals, we have sales consultants that will help and get the um the technical pieces complete. Um but after that, after they're closed, they go over to a post sales team and in between there, we also have the opportunity to cross-ell them on different products throughout the So that is the trial motion. The non-trail motion is not also dissimilar, but they're signing up maybe for a demo or attended an event. And then lastly, we do have ABM and outbound as a supplement as well. And so, um, those are obviously, you know, leads

in the pipeline moving through SQL to SQL and not entering into that MQL stage. >> I I love you also many motions going same time. >> And I'm really curious from an operator perspective. It's always like what's cool is you've had you've worn those different hats. So for you when you look the whole bigger picture where do you see maybe the most consistent drop off across the board? I'm sure it might be different by a team but kind of overall what's kind of the common themes you see like oh this is where we're kind of

drop there some friction this stage right here. >> Yeah I would say two things. I'd say at the very top of funnel, I think everyone's experiencing um paid search change, right? So paid search used to just be an unbelievable channel for us and that volume is is not necessarily going away. It's changing. And so from a full stage and a high level perspective, it's what are different and unique ways that we can fill top of funnel and still capture our ICP, but not through to the traditional search motions. from a sales perspective like when it

actually gets into funnel it is very different per team um because they're all in different stages entry level right high level I would say like for something different in our mid-market team generally some of the holdup there is either legal right so contracts and getting put into long-term contracts especially in this economic like instable market some type some hesitation So there there is definitely sometimes like like deal push that happens in that funnel. I would say more on the smaller business side. Anything that happens from stage to stage and stage if anything slows goes wrong

like dies out it's always because discovery wasn't done the way it needed to be done. Always. >> No matter what. Always. Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's so it's so funny, right? for so many leaders kind of push that top of the funnel, you know, but when you take a look at overall like a win rate or load, it's like well realistically majority of time discoveries is done poorly in any segment. It's like >> almost too transactional once you surface level like it's just kind of checking the box and excited to get to the demo,

right? >> Yeah. >> Very very common. >> Yeah, that discovery is won or lost, right, in a deal. It's that the I said it a little wrong probably, but I mean that's that is true tied and true for every industry. No matter the sales team, you're not good at discovery, you're not winning anything. >> Yeah. 100% 100% right. >> Yeah. >> When you look at like getting repeatable outcomes, what are maybe some plays or processes you see to be most effective at creating the repeatable outcomes? >> Yeah. You know, I think it dep there's a

lot of areas that you need repeatable outcomes. I would say if we start at the very very beginning, it's hiring people that want to follow process. And that's hard sometimes when you're hiring in sales because that rogue person is really good. That rogue person >> I'm a unicorn. >> They are really good and like you want them like you're like, "Oh no, I don't care. They're going to be a bull in a china shop. They're going to do whatever they want. I don't care and I want them." But that is not repeatable. >> That's right.

>> And so I think it does start in the interview process of like, are you choosing the right people on your team that are open to if you follow A, B, and C, you will be successful. So that's that's one piece. I'd say the second piece is being investing the time to actually come up with a robust and simple process. And using robust and simple together in the same sentence doesn't always work. It's like an oxymoron, but it is it is actually possible. And then continually communicate on a weekly, monthly basis, not just at the

manager, the rep level, the director level. I need to talk about it. I need to talk about this is how we win as well as everyone else throughout the org. That's how we get something that's repeatable. If you don't talk about it a lot and you say it one time and you just expect everyone to absorb and listen, it goes away. >> You're so right. You know, I mean, I was just talking to a team uh to to a CRO and it's interesting because, you know, they've tried past training initiatives, right? And like flavor of

the month. They hire a big company, come in, implement medic or something else. They're excited for two months, it peters off, they hire someone else and they're spend like tens of thousands of dollars, sometimes even hundreds of thousands of dollars, right, for the flavor of a week where it's a manager and leadership adoption that really helps drive it even beyond that that situation. So what are maybe some ways you see to be valuable as part of like a best practice or strategy so it's consistently top of mind so the implementation continuous as a journey versus

an event. Yeah, good question. And so you you're specifically talking about like training, right? Actual like training and enablement. >> It could be training, it could be, it could be anything, right? So let's say for example, you roll a brand new simple but robust process to the team. >> Team says sounds great. Maybe you do your SKO, whatever. And now what happens next? How how do how do you keep it keep that >> keep that that wheel going? Keep the the team going down that same path still. >> Yeah, it's the same thing I teach

in change management and that I talk about in change management. It is it is all about make so you can say we're going to roll this out right we're going to roll out ABC this is how we came to the conclusion here are our five W's but then after that all hands meeting it's going in and doing small team meetings making sure that there are no questions going into a deeper level of detail then it's doing one-on ones being like how do you feel about this do you think you can adopt it identifying champions people

that are going to rally for you people that are going to sell it for you so that you don't have to sell it as a leader. And then it's continuing to do that over and over and over again. And then it's giving them some sort of scorecard or repeatable measure where we can actually hold people accountable to this on an ongoing basis. Otherwise, it goes away and it needs to be easy. So, if it's manual, forget it. No one's going to do it. We've got too much. And it all ends up being about the revenue.

So, it's like making things easy, communicating often. I also anytime I roll something out or change something I tell my teams you're allowed to feel the way you feel. Like if you don't like this cool like let me know but let me know what you don't like about it so that we can work together to get you where you need to be. And I think that piece like people will always say like this is what we're doing. Get on board or don't. And for me it's like no no no like people feel certain ways like

we're human. You're going to tell somebody not to feel something. >> 100%. Yeah. I think there's a couple key points and hopefully other execs are listening carefully about this, right? Because when you're rolling type of change management now, right, there's a couple things you did very very well, which is you number one, which is you got locker room leaders involved which are going to help with the roll out. So you you build you bring champions in early as part of the role and I found that to be so critical because you get them involved, get

their feedback, they have buy in so they're going to be your ears to the ground helping handle objections. >> Yes. Then you have the overall bigger roll out, but then you're constantly seeking feedback. But then you create systems in place and also like easy scorecards to help with managing >> and engaging that performance ongoing. So it's not just a flavor of the week. It actually becomes a transformation over time. I think it's so >> yeah, I think that was very very well explained. When you look at your overall org, what's maybe your one challenge you

see with them right now? if it doesn't get like fixed or figured out next year, you know, like I'll be kicking myself in the next like 12 months. >> Goodness, there's, you know, there's actually a lot like Bill has been around. >> Bill has been around a long time, but right, we had a large acquisition. We're blending systems, Marcus. So, we like have, you know, all of these new systems integrating, blending systems, two ERPs came together, two CRM, like it's a lot. So, you're hearing a lot of system stuff from me. I am a huge

believer that systems should be in place to make sales teams efficient, not for reporting and documentation. And so if I could fix one thing today that I know if we don't fix by the end of year, we'll I'll be kicking myself, it would absolutely be reducing the steps that a sales rep needs to go through to work a deal in their system. So not customerf facing but in the system we have a unfortunately there are too many steps right now which creates inefficiencies and I need rep efficiency. >> So when you say steps can you

define a little more because is it like too many CRM steps too many internal internal partners they have to talk to to make a deal happen. >> Yeah I would say CRM steps >> they have you know too many tabs open at the top. Um, so they've got their Salesforce, their outreach, their scratch pad, their right, etc., etc., etc. U, their Zoom Info, their LinkedIn navigator. I mean, we've got all the tools, right? And they're just all there and there's too many places for the reps to work. Um, so I would say that internal systems,

sure, like we're we sell a complex product. We're like a bank, Marcus, really. Like we manage our own payment rails. So, there are a lot of things that go in to closing a deal from on our card payments like approvals, credit lines, right? And so, there are always areas of opportunity to streamline those processes as well. >> Oh, yeah. Especially when you're doing the credit and approvals and you have complex I find really interesting, especially the tech piece, right, where you have like a million tabs open, right? I mean, how many times have we seen

you're like, "Oh, God." Like, the reps share a screen. All the tabs are like this. They're so tiny you can't even see them or what's inside there. >> And we ran the same issue first in my own company. So, we actually ended up consolidating and like got rid of all tech bloat. So, now we have like one tool that does a lot of stuff. So, now we have less tabs. Maybe you might have only two, three tabs now. >> Um, have you figured out what type of solution or solve to kind of figure to eliminate

that? >> It's in the works, right? But I think the problem is is there even more tools out there now with AI coming out and we've got to try to stay on the precipice of what's happening. And so there's actually more being added. I do think over the next 12 months like there will have to be and this is why it was my choice like there's got to be something to make the team more efficient and more efficient is truly in my opinion giving them less to do in the systems and more talk time right

and talk time comes through less administrative burden. So, I think that it's it's got to be on the road map. It's coming. Um, but I don't have the answer yet. I don't know what what the best course of action is. >> I mean, I was just talking to a sales VP last week and they're like I think Salesforce says the average rep spends only 30% of their time selling, which is kind of crazy, right? And they were like I think I was like 20%. They were not confident even a third. I'm like that's kind of

wild, you know? So when you have a a rep or a team who's the behind their number, >> how do you determine at your level? Is it a people issue? Is it a process issue? Is it a system issue? How do you determine that? How do you diagnose it personally? >> Yeah. Gosh, I think that's like at least 25% of my job is understanding how to diagnose issues within a department, within a specific team, etc. I in the past would always go to people because it was my natural self. So when I as a young

leader, I would immediately say, "Oh, it's got to be a it's got to be a leadership problem or a management problem. Let me go dive into people and assess talent." As I've grown as a leader, I actually flipped it because my natural tendency is people. I went ahead and I always start with the data. So I go ahead and deep dive and really look for inconsistencies or variability in conversion. I look at top of funnel and the volume coming in. I dive into quality of conversion from stage to stage in the funnel and then I

also will look at um we use gong another technology for you um but I'm able I'm able to dive in and even like dissect like what am I hearing in key words are we not hearing asking are we not hearing next steps so starting with anything and everything quantitative first >> love it >> then I will go ahead and if I'm not seeing anything there and I'm like gosh everything seems the same between teams but this one team is struggling. Then I will go dive into some of that qualitative. Do we have a cultural issue?

Right? Um is there a man is there a training gap? Is there a a management gap? Is there a hiring gap? Right? Are we hiring the wrong people on this team? Do we need to tweak something? So that's generally my order of operations. >> I love it. It's I think it's again from an operator perspective, it's it's how you you think a little differently, right? I think a lot of times most leaders in your shoes are like it's a rep problem, it's a manager problem. Let's get right into it. It's probably it's probably because of

this. And it's funny because I made that mistake personally. I'm like solve it. And so now I have a very similar process, but I call it the uh MPP. >> I look uh mirror. I look in the mirror first. >> Is it me? Am I send the team right? I get them dialed the right tools, resources, whatever. Right? Then the process. Okay. I'm looking at the data, looking at everything else. And then I look at the person, you know, like >> that. Yeah. >> Sometime it's in the mirror. It's like I just didn't set him

up for success. That's for sure. That's a real thing, you know. So, um >> Yeah. >> Now, let's just say for example, if if you were tasked, you know, by the CEO says, "Hey, listen, Stephanie, I want you to double revenue the next 12 months, but we're not going to increase headcount at all." Okay. Exact same headcount, but I want you to double revenue. >> Yep. What would you need to change or what led would you pull first to drive towards that? >> Yeah. I'm going to pretend because you didn't give me very many guard

rails. I'm gonna pretend you didn't have a channel or a partnership motion. >> Sure. >> Yeah. And so one of the first things I would do is look for um something that would feed the team higher converting leads and higher on like we call arpoo or vas or you know um but your contract value right your ACB or T or TPV that would probably be my first thing is I don't want to raise each individual's rep's quota and just expect them to do more. I would prefer to find something of higher value at the top

that simply converts at a higher level to be able to grab that grab that growth. Now, I don't know if that would double. We're at we're a $ 1.5 billion company, so I don't think just doing a channel would get us there, but that would be one piece that I would push into. The other thing is just other growth levers and growth strategies. And then lastly, I would probably dive into monetization, right? Like where are we discounting too much here? Are we not charging for this? Are we do we have the right price packages for

the right customers? Is there verticalization opportunity from a pricing and packaging perspective? So, I would probably do that. >> Yeah, I I love that. You know, especially I mean both are fantastic, right? You're focusing on higher leverage leads to increase the overall deal size and then also >> you're protecting margin if you will by making sure like you actually have profitable growth because everyone can grow without this is what I love operators for reasons. So like how can we increase the margin actually? Is it an onboarding cost that we're waving? Are we waving part of

the fees? Can we increase the contract term overall? Can we if we're negotiating anything? How else can we increase the overall margin of the deal? I love that. Now I think a key piece is um everyone's seen CAC go up as across the board. We're seeing cost per lead go up. It's hard to get qualified leads. >> If you had to get more of these higher qualified leads, how would you go about it? how like how would you go about do you think if that was the core task? It's actually something that I did quite

a bit last year within the channel. Um, in the channel business I lead, it's quite a large group, but we call it the accounting channel here at Bell. And within that team, we needed to find unique ways to engage and get higher quality leads, but also engage in a way like it's a channel, right? So, you have to build partnerships. It's not a a mass opportunity. It's very very targeted. And so one of the things is uh that we did that really worked well last year uh was small intimate roundts but they included current customers

and prospects in local markets. So, I brought some of my field sales back, Marcus, and we worked both locally um going into offices, you doing some swag, doing some fun, but we also allowed our existing customers to sell our prospect base on our behalf. The biggest difference on these dinners and these events is I don't know about you, but like when I go to some of these dinners I get invited to, I feel like I'm getting held hostage for a steak. And right like they're going to sell me like the entire time. Like I can

buy my own steak. Please don't sit here and sell me. The dinners I love are when I'm collaborating with like-minded people, learning things from them and then just at the end they say we hosted this like we're doing this so that you can build the community right and learn from each other and then let people talk you know always have super users in the room. So we did do that. It was absolutely phenomenal. you had great success and because of that we're really spreading it out throughout the rest of the orgs in the company. >>

You know, I I love that so much, right? Because you don't see that often, especially in the tech space because >> yeah, >> everyone's so used to working off a laptop, right? You and I came from the field sales world where we actually know like that was critical, right? To be able to create these experiences that didn't feel salesy, >> you know? I mean, it's just I mean, there's so much power to the live events of other execs in the same room, which gives them access to people just like them. which sometimes that's what they

want. >> That's right. That's right. >> I absolutely love that. Now, we're going to pivot a little bit. All right. For you, what's maybe one sales metric that you obsess about that you think most leaders just overlook? >> One thing I obsess over. I don't know if it'd be different than others. I mean, one that I look at a lot that's maybe not relevant for all organizations is attach rate. Like how many orgs are coming in with a single contract. So, not every company has that as a metric, but that's something that I look at

a lot. The other thing, >> what's that mean specifically? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, like multi- multi- location, right? Are we selling an individual headquarters and no additional locations that come with it or are we truly grabbing the entire organization in all its locations like almost saturation? Oh, yeah. >> Of the org. So, that's something I look at a lot. I would also say I manage post sales as well. And in post sales, something that's important to me is book coverage. It's really easy to get caught up in your customers that continue to give and need.

And it's very hard to be proactive to hit your entire book with the same intentionality. So, that's also something I obsess over quite a bit is did you talk to everyone in your book in the last six weeks? Right? Do you have a relationship with everybody? And you know, you never know when that relationship turns into more. So that's another one. And then lastly, in an inbound motion, when you have trial and non-trial leads coming in, I really dive dive deep into leads per day per rep and conversion by rep. So even at my level,

like I want to see is there gross difference between this subset of reps and this subset of reps given that they got the same amount of leads. Why are they converting at such a drastic different rate that shows me things like training, right? Or work ethic or right a little bit of everything there. So, I like that one a lot. >> No, I love that so so much at last especially because you see training challenges but also sometimes you see the direct frontline leader. There's major gaps there because of y >> because level conversion you

see across the whole team. It's like there is definitely a challenge across the board. Maybe it's not accountability. Maybe they're not running one ones. maybe they're not on calls as reps, maybe they're not coaching. So, you start it starts to expose gaps where you're like, "Oh, this could lead to obviously bigger problems down the road, too." >> And um I love the point about even, you know, the the it's almost like the it's like the account penetration by the number of sites, if you will. So, for instance, it's kind of like I gota imagine let's

say if you sell into one Domino's, then you get the whole franchise group that maybe they own 100 dominoes. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. >> All about that too. It's interesting because uh you know I used to look at that. I used to also look at the account max in terms of where XMR products and services how much penetration do we have because I knew if we had like I think it's like 11 out 11 like at least 11 like service and products line items in there we had it was like never go we'd never

lose that business like it was like a forever account. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're totally right. I had that during my time at Staples too. Right. If you had office supplies and janitorial supplies and print and promo and furniture, you are never going to lose that deal. Ever. You are never going to lose it. >> We got you. And you you're stuck with us whether you like it or not. I I love that. >> So, what's uh what's one tactile move that you've have borrowed or stole shamelessly from another company or leader that you still

use to this day? >> Oh gosh, that's a good question. What have I I feel like everything I've done I've stolen somewhere. Um, like is there a lot of reinvention? I don't know. Gosh, I would say um it is probably the fun and enthusiasm in my all hands meetings and the content that goes in those meetings that I had had in my first sales role. I had a leader. It was the director and he always had so much fun integrated into those all hands meetings. There was accountability, there was stack rank performance, there were guest

speakers, right? But they were always like themed and everyone always looked forward to them because they were a good amount of fun. And I do them religiously with all of my in all of my leadership roles since then. Just they get to be at a different scale, but making sure you're always having a really fun time, but also making sure it's valuable for the people that are attending. The all hands meetings that I hate are the ones where you're just reading out and you're not engaging and everyone you can tell is doing things on the

side and it's a total waste of their time and it's more for the speaker than it is for the attendance or attendees. I'm all about the attendees in my meetings. >> You know, I love that the structure you're trying to talk through. Is there maybe one memorable one you've done where you're like, "Oh, I got the amazing feedback from because I did whatever." >> Yeah. So I would say one of my biggest most recent it was a little different than just a normal all hands. It was rolling out some change, right? And in this change,

I made sure that I tethered on like a uh it's like an analogy kind of, right? So, I was calling it a house, right? So, this is our house. It's got a crack in the foundation. We change we keep changing the curtains and that's not fixing the foundation, right? And so we're we're going to b I like got a bulldozer and I'm like we're bulldozing the house and we're going to rebuild it together, right? And he first we're going to start with the framing and then we're going to start with our our our walls and

then we're going to put up like the outside and make it pretty and then the interior design and everything had like a different like example associated with that stage of the build. And when we finished like the wrapup on the next meeting was like look at our house, right? like we built this together and this is where we live. And so I think that was wellreceived and so now when I do all hands meetings with that team like we always start with the house because it's it's where we live. >> I I love that. So

like was it like did you like physically build things or was it like did you like have like is it a deck that show how how did you like I'm trying to visualize it for people listening. >> Yeah. So, we are remote. So, we have some people in the office, but I've got people all across the country. So, we didn't I That would have been actually a really good idea, Margus. Like, I should have had everybody like build a little house kit, maybe got some Legos. Um, >> some giant red houses. I don't know. >>

That would have actually been awesome. Fail on my part. I missed out. But it was all um it was in a deck. Um there were a lot of visuals and it what it really would do is like the framing. So the framing of our house is for us means A, B, C and D, right? So it means creating our segmentation the way that we wanted and listening to our business and our customers and responding to that and making that change. Like that is the framing portion of what we're building. Whereas like the team selection and

team names and the fun stuff, well that's our interior design, right? Because we're living in this house now. So, like what bedroom do you want? And so, we just like more did that together. It was very interactive but very visual in the presentation. >> Yeah. I so love it, Ry. Because it's like you're and I I believe teams, they know when you're trying and when you truly care and you're making an effort to like, yes, this is serious. Yes, this is a business. Yes, we the numbers deliver, but like how can we >> how can

we make it fun, right? How can we make it like really personalized to that, right? I remember doing some very similar things where it's like, you know, I had some teams that were in person and some were like remote, you know, like I remember like one year we had a new announce for presence club, right? So, you know, for all the in-person teams like we, you know, and my team or my EA send out like packages to each of the bulens to set up the beach layout, you know, the the fake blow up palm tree,

the sign, the glasses, the straw hat for the people that in remote, we sent to their houses so they could like do the same thing, right? Right. So on the next call, everyone can wear the funny hats. I mean, just just to have fun with it, right? Cost a little bit of money. But like when you make it fun, that's like the emotions they remember, you know, especially when they're having a tough day and they're thinking about maybe quitting or taking that recruiter offer, you know, they're like, >> I remember how Stephanie made me feel.

>> Yeah. >> You know, yeah, >> I think it's so powerful. >> Um, amazing conversation. Um, so many so much value dropped today. People wanted to uh learn more about you or get a hold of you. How best can they find you? >> Yeah, LinkedIn is it. I don't have a web page or anything like that. Corporate girly over here. So, um but LinkedIn is the best way. Um if you send me an invite, I will absolutely accept and um I usually do respond to messages. So, yes, please do connect with me. Look forward to

to hearing from all of you. >> Awesome. That's a wrap on this episode of the Revenue Vault. Now, if you got value, here's your next step. Go to benleyconulting.com/teams. Get a free performance scan of your sales or will show exactly where deals are stol and how to fix it. And this episode gave you even one insight worth sharing. Send to a sales leader you respect. I'm Marcus Shen. Thanks for joining us in the vault.