as people were arriving at a Kentucky courthouse for hearings early Monday morning a man suddenly opened fire gunning down three people not far from the courthouse steps the suspect took off but didn't get very far we've got the latest on the case that shut down a small city outside of Louisville with criminal defense attorney Anthony Oso welcome to sidebar presented by law on crime I'm Jesse Weber there was a very scary situation that was unfolding in downtown Elizabeth toown Kentucky we want to talk about and when this happened the police chief appeared before reporters to
give them an update about what happened before 9:00 this morning we received phone calls multiple 911 calls about U multiple individuals being shot at our Courthouse just about a half a mile from here uh we were on scene within a minute located three victims while we were down there the suspect had fled the scene obviously armed and dangerous we began working to find that individual uh we later identified him as Christopher Elder he is now our understanding in a negotiation stage in Western Kentucky with law enforcement so police say 46-year-old Christopher Elder opened fire on
the people walking up to the Harden County courthouse and when he did this it was personal that is because Elder was supposed to appear in front of a judge at 9:00 a.m. Monday morning for a hearing involving an emergency protection order according to police he had been dating one of the victims in this shooting 37-year-old Erica Riley and both Erica and her 71-year-old mother although a GoFundMe that was set up says that this was her stepmother but either way a parent Janet Riley who was accompanying her that day they both were shot and killed now
it's also being reported that a third individual was also shot but was in stable ition possibly Erica's father again that's according to the gunwi we can't independently confirm that but police revealed also that Erica's two young children were also there allegedly saw this whole thing go down their mom their grandparents shot right in front of them and fortunately they weren't injured well I should say they weren't injured physically but if this is true it's kind of hard to imagine the effect this is going to have on them losing loved ones is hard enough but watching
this happen now what about Elder right while his First Responders were tending to the victims police took off after Elder and they reportedly used flock cameras to track him from Elizabeth Town which is in the middle of the state to Western Kentucky and police say Elder ended up in a Chase with several different law enforcement agencies reportedly pointed his rifle at officers several times before stopping in a church parking lot out in Christian County it's understanding that's more than 100 miles away from Elizabeth Town in the parking lot Elder was involved in a standoff with
police that lasted around an hour that's according to authorities before he reportedly turned the gun on himself shooting himself in the head he was airlifted to a hospital later died from his injuries okay so there's a lot that we want to get into here and I want to bring on criminal defense attorney Anthony Oso who's a regular her on sidebar and for all of you who don't know Anthony worked as a prosecutor in the Harris County district attorney's office out in Texas he actually worked particularly in the office's domestic violence division he was responsible for
over 40 active murder cases so unfortunately Anthony you know a think or two about these kinds of situations it's good to see you again um but it seems based on the facts here not too hard to establish a motive about why this would have happened but how often do you see such blatant acts of violence like this in public when you have a domestic situation it's uncommon um I think when it comes to domestic violence most of those incidents happen behind closed doors and they're a lot less severe so when you see um a murder
and a murder in public that is sort of an atypical situation now I think there is a rising Trend in the level of this crime in the domestic violence setting but again it's still the outlier right before a court hearing right outside of a courthouse have you experienced that have you seen that before I've never seen something like that before um not since I've read A Time to Kill where I've seen a a murder right in or around the courthouse so it's very uncommon but I I you know I'm I'm glad to hear that on
one sense but also I'm wondering should there be more precautions put in place when you're dealing like I I've covered cases before where maybe someone's not killed outside of a courthouse but when you have what you're dealing with very very personal sensitive issues here and you're talking about children you're talking about um domestic violence restraining orders you're talking about divorce proceedings I see so many times homicide cases where right before an important hearing right before a judge is to make a decision there's something that happens and I Wonder has there been any effort to put
more precautions in place I don't know if it's a resources issue you can't maybe assign some sort of security to people before they have these hearings but even at the courthouse itself is there anything that should be done well I think I think what they're doing and I think what you see judges doing is is pre-trial conditions but in the end of the day the court only is able to restrain or restrict people that they have jurisdiction over and in this situation there wasn't an active case against Mr Elder and so um the courthouse is
a public place it has to be people are allowed inside the courtroom and so yes they have metal detectors and monitoring systems to allow or to determine what people have on them when they go in the court room but to have security out front and decide who drives on a public roadway I I think is Impractical but but clearly um I think timing and knowledge of of the fact that hearing is coming up is is something that maybe could be addressed and if he didn't die it would have been a I think a very very
straightforward case to ultimately prosecute and convict him because according to witnesses that day who were near the courthouse they saw him circling the parking lot stop stops gets out fires 10 to 12 shots gets back into his car speeds away talked about the children allegedly seeing this you also see the the the full Chase I mean this not only seems to me that he would have been convicted but this was a clear clear premeditated murder right I I don't think identity would be the defense I would Lodge in this case and uh yeah I think
that based on based on what she was there for right the emergency protective order hearing she's going to get help uh he's aware of that that setting date that hearing um and brings a gun to the courthouse there's obvious premeditation I think that a jury would likely light him up tragic story shooting outside of a courthouse is just crazy to even think about but look I always say it's important to hear these stories not only as a way to bring exposure to what happened to these victims tell their side of the story but also can
be a warning if anybody's in a similar situation and one of the reasons we're able to do that why we're able to bring you these stories a large part is because of the incredible support that we get from our sponsors and I just want to highlight one in particular right now Morgan and Morgan our incredible partner America's largest injury Law Firm look if you should get hurt this is a firm you may want in your corner over a thousand attorneys dedicated team of investigators Specialists paralegals the whole process can be done straight from your smartphone
there's no upfront fee they have a track record of verdicts and settlements and the multi-millions they know how to win so if you're injured you can easily start a claim at forthepeople.com ELC sidebar help you check it out by the way just so we can be clear when I'm talking about this do you know about the security outside of the courthouse at all we talk about the security inside the courthouse but outside of the courthouse is there what's out there usually well really it's Courthouse dependent uh in a city like Houston where it's a very
populated area you do have security oper in the courthouse so that there's not um any Riff Raff or harassing um Behavior going on like that but in some in smaller counties they don't necessarily have the Manpower ability or typical need to do that I think I think the police chief spoke to the um how unprecedented a crime like this was this isn't really something that they've seen before or that they've dealt with you know it's unfortunately very common and very consistent the children that are affected by domestic violence and I mentioned before it's hard enough
that they go through the death of a parent or a loved one but to witness it in your experience in your practice how do you approach how do you communicate with those children what do you tell them when they're they're affected by this every case is different Jesse I think the first thing that you have to do when you're dealing with a young child who's lost a parent especially to a domestic violence um homicide is work to earn their trust because their trust in the world and and their trust in adults is pretty much shattered
at that point and it's once you gain that trust that that you you then build their confidence um and just try and provide them a sense of hope that that life will get better that there's a lot of Life to Live and they should be strong yeah um I want to get into this a little bit more giving some context about the leadup to this event so according to court documents that were obtained by WRB in Louisville Erica had filed for an emergency protective order against Elder on August 8th and in her petition Erica quote
described an incident from July in which Elder was downgrading and talking nasty to her teenage daughter she says she defended her daughter and she and Elder got into a screaming match Riley reported that when she yelled at him that he's a drunk ass Elder hit her twice in the left jaw she then allegedly jumped on his back hit him in the head AC accidentally hurting him with her electronic cigarette that's when he allegedly threw her off and H her repeat and hit her repeatedly on the sides of her head Erica said that the fight happened
in front of her two children and that Elder had been terrorizing the family for a year and a half Anthony I'm sure this is something that you've seen and heard about way too often right it is this is the typical uh sort of what appears to me what what we always would say in in to victims before it got to this point when you're dealing with sort of assaults or things like that is that it's when you want to leave that it becomes most dangerous and it appears that that that's what happened here um there
was sort of a pattern of behavior of jealousy and possessiveness on behalf of Mr Elder and when she went to get that emergency protective order effectively keeping him away from her and her family that's when he um took it upon himself to enter life how does it work the protective orders how does it work in terms of filing it how does it work in terms of what the hearing would have been if this actually had happened so on an emergency protective order um well when a case is it it really is jurisdiction specific but here
in Houston and I'm sure there's a lot of other jurisdictions that are similar is when there is a as a probable cause finding of Family Violence the judge in in a family violence case the judge will issue what's called in a MAG a magistrates order of emergency protection but even in situations where there's not a case a victim can apply for protective order um and use facts like we've heard like you just stated about the prior assault to get that effective order granted now we talked earlier about trying to protect the victim when we know
about hearings like this and and the reality is is in order for defendant or a dangerous individual to abide by a protective order they've got to know of its existence and that's that's sort of the double-edged sword here is that you you're basically putting someone that's that's known to be a danger on notice of a situation like this but they have to know about it in order to abide by it so it's can I can I follow up on that do they have to know about it before the hearing in other words is this just
one side I'm going to lay out some allegations against this person are they notif is the person that they're making the allegations against are they notified about it do they have an opportunity to present their side of the story or does that defeat the purpose because if you're asking for an emergency protective order so you're not near an individual I would imagine like how much notice does the other per how much notice would Elder have had about this no he wouldn't have necessarily had to have notice not on emergency protective we're hearing uh like in
a civil situation now on those temporary protective orders um you're not gonna have twoyear to Lifetime protective orders right these are going to be temporary because again the defendant doesn't have the knowledge um an ability to defend themselves in that type of hearing so how long is it how would somebody in Elders position let's say say the order was granted um how would he be able to fight against it because clearly the option wasn't going to the courthouse and murdering people but the option could what was his legal options moving forward well typically you you
don't just practically speaking you don't see a lot of appeals on those temporary protective orders um especially when there's actually a charge filed um you you don't see defendants going into open court and appeal the protective order they might ask for amendments to it as in May I have contact for the purposes of children and that contact not be threatening harassing but you don't see overall appeals of these of these temporary restraining orders so they let it die down like if it's for a year or for for a period of months because then what happens
that person uh for example Riley would have to go back to court and allege new facts uh well and again it depends right you have you have different types of protective orders youve civil protective orders and that's under a different subset of Law and then you've got protective orders that are ordered by a judge presiding over a criminal case and so the in a criminal case that is only going to last 90 days at least in Texas and it might vary throughout um different jur jurisdictions throughout the United States and a civil protective order again
it's it's it's um it's based on you know whatever the jurisdiction is so in a civil setting yes she would have to go back and then rege uh new findings or additional reasons to have the protective order um Extended in the criminal setting there's got to be a new reason to have like a new crime to provide the judge with jurisdiction to provide that protective order that's that's a little concerning because even if some if someone's allegedly assaulted and you know 90 days goes by just because another assault didn't happen because you know there's the
protective order in place person could be just waiting for it to happen the idea that you have to wait for something else to happen to get another emergency protective order I I mean again maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way it's just it seems problematic no no I I completely agree um now when you're talking about a criminal case where somebody is obviously there's probable cause to find they committed an assault the judge in addition to a emergency protective order can can put What's called the they can create Bond conditions right and as a
part of their bond conditions they can order defendant not to have contact with the witness but this all funnels into the the important message that I think you often try to send and it's the victims need to speak up early and speak to people they trust because um the court system it's it's limited in its ability to protect them uh there are things in place to do so but the best thing they can do is to seek help as well tragic situation really sad to see Anthony oo uh thank you so much for coming on
appreciate your your perspective and also I'll let everybody know that the family has started a GoFundMe to cover the funeral costs provide for their children we'll put it up here uh in case anybody wants to donate uh again Anthony Oso thank you so much appreciate it thanks for having me Jesse all right everybody thank you so much for joining us here on sidebar and as always please subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify YouTube wherever you get your podcast I'm Jesse Weber speak to you next time [Music]
