The Debate Over James 2: Catholic or Protestant View

Making sure we're good to go I hate to pause and do this so bear with me skip forward 30 seconds if you have to and you'll get right to the meat and the content alright we're good now let me explain to you what we're doing today this is the topic of whether or not Christians are saved by faith alone specifically what the Bible teaches in regards to James chapter 2 because that is the key battleground I Think a lot of times in the conversation on this particular issue so let me explain what I mean in

every battle in every war there are certain battlegrounds like d-day the Normandy there are certain certain moments certain places where even though the war is big the war has all these fronts and different things going on this this front this issue this thing determines what happens in the war long term like this is the key turning point for the Battle and in in battles these are the things we write about these are the things we all talk about we remember forever we forget a lot of the smaller battles and really with theology that's how it

is - and in theology in the question of justification by faith alone the battleground one of the major battlegrounds is James chapter 2 James chapter 2 that's what it is so this this is where we're really gonna find a separation between the the Biblical Christian view and then on one side that's where I believe course I believe I'm there but I'm going to show you why I think this is the right view but on the other side you're gonna have Catholicism Mormonism Jehovah's Witnesses and just about every single other religious group out there will all

agree on the opposite side of where I'll be today on this I think is a good thing I think that that's a sign that this is the unique gospel of Jesus Christ but I Will actually look to look to verify that and and I'm telling you this is I've been looking forward to making this video for a long time this James - issue of are we saved by faith alone or is it faith plus works this issue it comes up constantly I have a I have on line a four-part series on Catholicism and I'm not

gonna rehash that material here today I deal with the historicity of it the the church councils I deal with and things like that I deal with the Church fathers theology I mean you name it I deal with it the Pope's and all this kind of stuff but in the comment section of those videos I constantly get nailed with James chapter 2 over and over again I mean I can't always reply to comments so here's my reply here's my reply but first let me let me be for a second the Protestant and the Catholic I'm gonna

share both sides of the debate I love doing that I think we learn a lot by hearing two sides of a conversation So I don't have a Catholic to debate here today although I would be open to doing that if somebody wants to volunteer who's who's a rational reasonable person not just to Internet kook just being real here I don't wanna debate a kook like someone who can you know who can do it well but okay so on the Protestant side here's what we say we say solafeet a faith alone we believe that we're saved

justified by faith alone apart from works just like it says In ephesians chapter 2 and the protestant would read to you for by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God not of works not of works lest anyone should boast and the Catholic would respond now here's what the Protestants generally don't know the Catholic might respond with this and I've heard many Catholics say it Sola fidei faith alone do you do you know that There's only one time in the entire Bible where the phrase faith

alone even comes up and it's in James 2:24 let's read it it says you see them that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone James 2:24 that that is the thing in fact in in Catholic answers which is I think a real spearhead in the Catholic apologetics movement right Catholic answers I think it's Trent horn is his name he he was answering a question about justification and he gave Like seven steps or something to answering the issue when you're dealing with a Protestant and he said the first thing you do he

said number one you want to bring out James chapter two verse 24 it specifically says justified by works and not by faith only or not by faith alone seemingly to refute the Protestant position I see what I'm doing right now is I'm trying to create the tension I want you to feel the tension that people feel when they enter into this Conversation so we can resolve it with a verse by verse study through James so the Protestant would respond to this Catholic and say but but Romans Roman says in Romans 3:28 before we hold that

one is justified by faith apart from the works of the law and in Romans 4 listen to this passage it says what then shall we say that Abraham our Father has found according to the flesh for if Abraham was justified by works he has something to boast about but not before God for What does the scripture say abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness not now to him who works the wages are not count not counted as grace but his debt but to him who does not work but believes on him

who justifies the ungodly his faith is accounted for righteousness so then the the Catholic would turn and respond oh yeah but James 221 it says speaking of Abraham was not Abraham our Father justified by works When he offered Isaac his son on the altar so you see what ends up happening typically in these these conversations is you get the Catholic on one side or the Mormon or the jehovah's witness or the you name it the works the faith plus works a group which is just about everybody out there except for biblical christianity and and then

you have them all lined up saying we have these passages and james and then I say oh I've got I got my passage in Romans and Ephesians and Galatians and they go yeah we got more in James and it seems when it's quoted out of context it seems like it contradicts and really the Atheist wins that's because if I like see your Bible contradicts itself so my method today is this I don't want to use the bad methodology of using scripture to fight scripture I find that not only irritating but not insightful not helpful and

nobody learns anything through it when I just use one verse to Combat another verse of scripture whenever someone brings up a verse that challenges me my thought is let's stop and let's just look at that passage you brought it up let's look at it let's look at it in context let's see what it really teaches I won't combat it with a whole different passage so that's the bad method right the good method instead is to just contextually study the passage in question so that's what we're gonna do we're gonna do a verse by verse Study

through James - I would wager most people arguing about justification most of them have not done a careful study of James 2 verse by verse just looking at this passage specifically James to verse 14 through 26 so here's where I encourage you guys with two things one get your Bible out get your Bible out have it ready I encourage you to have it open to these passages or have it on your phone and app or whatever it's just that you have The Bible open so you can look at it with your own eyes and I

also encourage us not to be babies there's my big baby head on the wall just a reminder don't be the baby don't be the baby right and what I mean by this is let's not demonize you Protestants you wouldn't even have a Bible if it wasn't for the Catholic Church and change the subject let's not attack the person let's look at the passage like I'm doing this with you this is a verse by verse study where I'm doing it with you and I am gonna give you the chance to combat and compete with what I

say at the end of the stream I'm gonna read your comments and I'm gonna respond to your objections which I hope they come so how you how you'll do this is if you're watching live on YouTube in the live chat you're gonna go ahead and you're gonna type out your questions or objections AJ he's monitoring the chat thanks for being there AJ and he's going to send those Things to me on my phone so that will isolate your specific questions out of all the rest of the chat and I'll deal with that at the end

so here's the thing Bible study verse by verse and then taking on your challenges to try to get as much clarity as possible on the issue I love this stuff man I I love I love that truth comes out when we when we sort of poke at it and push at it and press on it and ask questions and try to dig into the details so what is James - Really saying first let me let me read the passage James chapter 2 verse 14 all the way through 26 this is a Bible study we're gonna

read through the whole passage then we're gonna go through it again verse by verse just trying to understand what it says and we'll see why I do not think this is teaching that you are justified in the theological sense by by faith plus works so James 2:14 it says what good is it my brother's if someone says he has faith But does not have works can that faith save him if a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food and one of you says to them going peace be warmed and filled without

giving them the things needed for the body what good is that so also faith by itself if it does not have works is dead but someone will say you have faith and I have works show me your faith apart from your works and I will show you my faith by my works you believe that God Is one you do well even the demons believe and shudder do you want to be shown you foolish person that faith apart from works is useless was not Abraham our Father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac

upon the altar you see that faith was active along with his works and faith was completed by his works and the scripture was fulfilled that says abraham believed god and it was counted to him as righteousness and he was called a friend Of god you see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone and in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she receives the messengers and sent them out by another way for as the body apart from the spirit is dead so also faith apart

from works is dead now the two verses that i think as we just read just kind of read straight through that really jump out to me that kind of apply to this issue of how are we Justified how it made right with god is verse 21 and 24 so I'm gonna read those again to bring him fresh into your mind was not Abraham our Father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar and then verse 24 you see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone so

before we before we get any further I think there's something that we really need to to nail down and this is just a good biblical like rural principle for Bible study Something we called hermeneutics that's a great word to learn if you don't know it the word hermeneutics it's the art and science of studying the Bible or really the art and science of studying anything any text in particular so our hermeneutic is how do we understand the meaning of this how do I make sure that what it says I'm not twisting it or changing and

I'm just understanding the plain sense so one of the problems we have is as Christians we We sometimes read theological definition of words into the words in the text let me explain what I mean I'm gonna give an example the door word saved okay so we know what salvation is I'm when I'm saved the theological definition of saved is I'm in a state of forgiveness I have a right relationship with God I have I have assurance of the future of my eternal life in Christ you know that's what saved means right in the theological meaning

but the word saved Doesn't always mean that sometimes the word saved just means deliverance from some sort of danger or suffering Philippians 119 is an example of this it says for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance and that's the word saved so terror in the in the in the Greek through your prayer and the supplication or the supply of the spirit of Jesus Christ so he speaks about his deliverance and he's talking about his in jail and he's gonna be released and He's gonna be able to minister more so Paul clearly

uses the term saved and delivered not in a theological sense but just ended just a Webster's dictionary kind of sense or a Greek web stays dead on huh Webster but for the Greek version of Webster's and don't stay strong all right so first Timothy 2:15 is another good example of this here he uses the word saved clearly it does not mean theological salvation it just means the dictionary meaning of the word saved First Timothy 2:15 says nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith love and holiness with self-control so here I

mean if that if you're gonna take every time the word saved comes up it has this theological meaning that goes above and beyond the way people in the culture used it then you're gonna say that women are saved by having kids along with a group of other works that they do but that's obviously not the case And so the doctrine isn't the word what we do is we have we have theological doctrines and then we come up with words to describe those doctrines but that doesn't mean that every time the word is used it implies

the whole doctrine and that's the key issue in the debate over James - let me give you another example because this is really this is probably the most important thing I'll share with you tonight on this passage so the word God we know the theological definition Of God right when I say God I generally speaking I'm talking about the eternal omnipotent creator of all things transcendent omniscient holy triune I'm saying all this when I say God yet the exact same word God has other meanings that depending on the context you may mean so the the

the simple like Webster's dictionary definition of God would be like you know some sort of deity or powerful being someone receiving worship that sort of thing in The Greek and the Hebrew is really kind of the same way and the Greek gets the word feyo's and it means a divine being or one who is worshipped that's that's the dictionary definition of the Greek word Thais now usually in the New Testament when the word Theo's is used it's talking about that theological meaning god right with all those attributes but sometimes it just means the word meaning

not the theology behind it so 2nd Corinthians 4:4 is an example Of this it says whose minds the god of this age has blinded who do not believe lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ who is the image of God should shine on them now here's a verse where the same word thais is used two times one time referring to Satan one time referring to God and one time having the theological meaning with all of its weight and pomp and importance and the other time just referring to some sort Of leadership

being powerful being that that receives worship but is not eternal omnipotent you know all of those qualities that God is so same word different meanings sometimes theological sometimes just the dictionary meaning and the Hebrew the word Elohim is even in that's the word for God Elohim and the Hebrew typically translated God it's even more flexible it's used sometimes referring to angels or even human judges or just powerful Beings or any deity and sometimes God the God of Israel the Creator over the universe so you might say but Mike you know that's that's what we have

in the Bible that's what we have the capital G's in the lowercase G's well this is added later by English translators for the sake of clarity but it's not in the original there's no it's not like capital Elohim lowercase Elohim you know capital Thais lowercase it's that's added later and they get it out of Context now why do I labor this point so much because when James says that we are justified the question is does he mean the theological definition of justification or does he just mean justification like you're justified so I use the word

just like James or Paul I use it in different senses so the theological meaning is this I'm made right with God my sins have been taken away I've been given the righteousness Of Christ and now I am right in the eyes of God I am clean I am I'm free from the future wrath of God because I've been justified made righteous that's the theological definition right but the word itself justified even in the Greek it doesn't mean that necessarily it can just mean to acquit so if someone's oh you didn't commit the crime now you're

justified they'd use it for that it could mean to be to declare someone and treat them as righteous or It could just mean to show or prove that someone is right that's it to vindicate them that's an entirely fair explanation or definition of that word let me give you an example of this and this proves it you you don't need to know Greek to know this right look I'm speaking to people you who can just read this in the English of Luke 729 this proves this verse I'm gonna quote proves that the term justification is

used in the Bible in senses other than the Theological meaning of being given the righteousness of Christ so Luke 729 it says this and when all the people heard him even the tax collectors justified God having been baptized with the baptism of John now nobody in their right mind would think that Luke is saying that tax collectors made God righteous like they imputed their righteousness to God or some some garbage like that like no it's clear that in that sense Luke 729 justify just Means that they're saying God you really are true we're affirming that

you're right we're affirming the truthfulness of what you're doing right now so that that since justified validated vindicated do you get the point I hope so I think if I think that makes it pretty clear and I think I've just made a really solid case for this so when we come back to James 2 we can come with this context of justified sometimes just means it's been made Evident or made clear or has been proved right not necessarily given a like salvific righteousness so we're gonna take this passage and I will again I'll interact with

your questions at the end of this stream if you're still watching it live if you're not watching it live if you're wondering today's Tuesday March 13th we are live right now and if you're watching it later I still think it'll be of great value to you so we're gonna Take this I will answer your questions even your challenges at the end I mean please hit me with your best shot your most rational reasonable challenge and calling me names doesn't count that just that's the big baby head thing I'm looking over there alright so that's the

question on what is James saying here is the passage saying that you need works to be saved or is it saying that works are simply a symptom that confirms you have a living or real faith is it saying That saving faith is the issue or is it saying that faith plus works is the issue that's the question so James 2 verse 14 let's dig in and let's let the Bible be the Bible what good is it my brothers if someone says he has faith but does not have works can that faith save him so this

this really sets up the whole thing you really should read the whole book of James you know to get it all in context and I'll quote I'll talk more about context later but the Beginning of this section is James 2 verse 14 it is all one section it will be the whole section and it really sets it all up it offers a hypothetical situation and it's James saying hey what good is it what use is it if and then it gives it a description of a situation and the situation is someone who says who says

I have faith but he doesn't have works that's the situation notice this the situation of James when he talked about works he's not talking About sacraments I'm I want I want Catholic people to know this because you don't read about the sacraments for the most part in the scriptures but James is not talking about them James 1 all the way through the rest of the book James 5 is gonna talk about simple good works the good works James is talking about here the good works the person doesn't have is not Baptism and Confirmation and and

Eucharist those aren't the things right The the good works are things like being a doer of the word and out of here only I'll read it to you James 1:22 he says be doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving yourselves for if anyone's a hearer of the word not a doer he's like a man observing his natural face in the mirror free observes himself goes away and immediately forgets what kind of man he was but he who looks into the perfect law of Liberty and continues in it and Is not a forgetful hearer

but a doer of the work this one will be blessed in what he does if anyone among you thinks he's religious and does not bridle his tongue that's an example of the good work bridle in your tongue but deceives his own heart this one's religion is useless pure and undefiled religion before God and the father is this to visit orphans and widows in their trouble and to keep oneself unspotted from this world so it's basically Helping people in need the use of your tongue James 3 he talks about that again in James 4 he talks

about carnality and worldliness like he just mentioned here at the end of James 1 so the good works that James is saying in this hypothetical person that James 2 is all about this particular kind of guy who says I believe I believe in Jesus I believe in God I believe all that but I don't have control over my tongue and I don't help the people who need it and I Don't stay unspotted from this world so it's not about sacraments it's about general Christian obedience and godliness following Jesus in your life but what the person

does is he says I have faith it doesn't actually say he has faith it says he says he has faith that's interesting differentiation isn't it I once heard someone say that Jesus was their Savior but not their Lord James too is about that he's my eye I believe I believe but I don't follow That's what James 2 is about and has a very scary message for the person who fits that description but the issue in James 2 starting in verse 14 is that faith can that faith save him let me read it again get it

in your heart and mind what good is it my brothers if someone says he has faith but does not have works can that faith save him can the faith that he were you where you go well I claim to believe but you're like not believing can that faith Save um in fact when I just lost my spot here um okay so I I know that um it for those of you that know a little bit of the Greek you're gonna say well the word that isn't actually in the Greek and that's true that faith can

that faith save him but it's added generally by translators for the sake of clarity and it and I say generally out of 16 translations I consulted 13 of 16 of them added the word that 13 out of the 16 including the Catholic approved in a bre translation so what what I'm saying here is that can that faith save him is a fair translation of the Greek by the weight of these various translators and I think it wouldn't change my translation even if the word that wasn't there obviously this particular guy's faith that's what James is

all about that's what this passage in James is about the guy who claims to believe but he shows no evidence of faith that guy Saved that's that's the question claimed faith without obedience and then and then he simply asks at the end of James 2:14 what good is it what good is it that's the word of fellows in the Greek or a fellow's in the Greek it means pertaining to a benefit to be derived from some object event or state an advantage a benefit or something beneficial what I'm saying here is what benefit what what

how much is a faith like that gonna change your life how Much is a faith like that gonna affect your salvation that's the real question when you say I believe but I don't follow is God gonna respond to that kind of belief that's what James is so far about verse 15 he says if a brother or sister and didn't give an example to back this up if a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food and one of you says to them going peace be warmed and filled without giving them the things

needed for the body what good Is that it's it's empty and this is that same word you know that the fellow so what good is that what so I the parallel here don't miss it the parallel is I have faith but I don't have works and he goes well you're like a guy who's like oh yeah go be warm and filled but I'm not gonna help you assuming that you could help them that's implied in the passage here it's empty it's actually kind of offensive you know it's like I pull over on the side of

the road and Someone's like crying out help me out of this pit and I go I hope someone helps you and I Drive away like what a jerk you know you obviously don't really mean it there's something wrong with your hope you get better when you're not willing to do anything to help them when you could and you should so if you believe in Jesus but you don't follow him and practical ways like with your mouth with a kingdom focus mindset with an Impartial love towards others with selflessness those are some of the things in

James that he talks about then this passage is about you and that's it's good that you're becoming aware of it because now you can make a difference in your life because you need to because that's scary so continuing on verse 17 he says so also faith by itself if it does not have works is dead and this is really the main point if he gave it he gave an intro he gave an example and now He kind of hit to the main point verse 17 faith by itself if it does not have works is dead

works indicates something about the quality of your faith do you see that that the quality of the works isn't the thing in question the quality of the faith is What's in question the quality of the faith so faith is still what salvific in James it's just what do you do when someone says I believe but they don't show any Evidence that that's real faith you say well if you don't have works your faith is dead and if you have a dead faith you have a faith that is not saving you that's the implication pretty pretty

hardcore but not teaching that you need faith plus works so far is just talking about the quality of the faith what kind of faith actually saves versus what some people call easy belief ISM verse 18 but someone will say and now this is a really misunderstood verse and I think It's really key I've heard Bible says or the guys teach it they don't understand verse 18 in my opinion let me tell you what I think it means but someone will say you have faith and I have works show me your faith apart from your works

and I will show you my faith by my works why is this misunderstood because I think here James is doing what Paul does a lot of the time he's setting up like a dummy to talk to he's he's putting a complaint in the mouth of someone else In his writing so he can respond to that complaint so James just laid out some really hardcore stuff if you really believe you're gonna live it out if you're not living it out that's dead faith what good is that implication you're not even saved so then what response james

a' assumes the response will be and here he it's in quotes for reason he says but someone will say you have faith and I have works now that you here is the dead faith person and the I There is James so let me put it this way someone will say James excuse me uh you you dead faith person you have faith James over there he has works James is preaching works that's exactly what the Catholic assumes and the jehovah's witness in the mormon assumes about james james is preaching works so james in verse eighteen he

brings up that issue and he rejects it because he describes no no i'm not saying one of you has faith and one of us has works I'm saying it's all about faith but i will quote show you show me your faith apart from your works and i will show you my faith by my work so James is gonna demonstrate faith by works so faith is still the issue but how do you prove that there's faith James rejects the idea that this is an issue between am I saved by faith or saved by works he goes

no no it's by faith but is the faith real I mean God sees your faith you're saved but how do I show you my Faith so then he he sarcastically says show me your faith without works well I can't show you my faith without works the only way to demonstrate what I believe is by how I live so verse 18 let me read it to you again I hope you caught it I hope I explained that well um there's a reason why people get it so misunderstood so someone will say you have faith and I

James has works show me your faith apart from your works hahaha that's the gotcha question and he says And I will show you my faith by my works so faith is the issue not works but works is how you demonstrate the faith verse 19 it goes on James says you believe that God is one you do well even the demons believe in shudder it's as though he responds to the to the person who's slowly backing away from what James is saying well James you're preaching works he goes no I'm not I'm just showing you my

faith by my works oh yeah well I believe I mean I believe I'd Really do believe so they're gonna they're gonna give a profession of faith even though their life doesn't live out the gospel and his response to them is that's good I'm glad you believe you really believe that's great so the demons I mean they know who God is they know Jesus is real and they tremble they shudder because they know that wrath and judgment is coming so the implication is that a belief that only exists in in a sense of personal as intellectual

assent That that's dead faith if your faith doesn't doesn't result in works in your life well then what kind of faith do you have you have dead faith this is a pretty hardcore thing and I know many of you guys know too when you encounter somebody who has empty faith or dead faith it is incredibly difficult to get them to realize it like how often and how easily will they admit that I mean there James has obviously interacted with these people too and the Holy Spirit knew this text was needed because it keeps backing them

into a corner this isn't about salvation by works but show me your faith without works and I'm telling you if you have faith without works you've got dead faith and you're not so you're not saved whoa I believe James I believe and he goes that's great so do the demons it is hard to shake people out of this sort of self-deceived thing that's why he earlier said that if you're a hearer of the word but not a Doer you deceive yourself like you really don't know what's going on you don't even realize you're not saved

you're not saved and that it breaks my heart I mean just statistically this video will be watched by somebody in these in this exact situation that doesn't realize it's not like do these works and you'll be saved it's like no you have not really truly turned in faith to Jesus you don't have a living faith you just have a dead faith and and I just hope and pray that their eyes get opened as they even hear this message so let's keep reading he decides to further further shake the person out of their slumber and says

in verse 20 do you want to be shown a foolish person that faith apart from works is useless he calls him a fool not because he's trying to be insulting but because he's trying to help them see it I mean if you're thinking I believe I believe I know I'm not living it out I know I'm not Following Jesus but deep in my heart I believe it's true I think I'm okay because deep in my heart I believe it's I'll be like if it's only deep in your heart then I mean what does that really

mean deep in your heart you believe it's true oh foolish person do you want to be shown that faith apart from works is useless so when in the context now he's not saying you need this many works to get saved no he's saying this kind of faith that doesn't motivate action that Doesn't lead you into living a life for Christ that kind of faith is useless it is of no benefit it does not produce salvation powerful stuff and he will use an Old Testament passage to demonstrate it and here because you might be sensing as

I'm sharing this stuff you may be like Mike you know I feel like especially if you don't hear me really carefully you'll feel like I'm dancing on salvation by works even though I can I keep refuting it actually with my Words but but just the words themselves I say faith without works instead but you've got to hear this and you've got to get the solid in your life there's a reason why James - is in the Bible and even though it made Luther mad it's it's good that it's there and we need to understand it

carefully so let's read on verse 21 was not Abraham our Father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar you see that faith was active along with his works And faith was completed by his works and the scripture was fulfilled it says abraham believed god and it was counted to him as righteousness and he was called a friend of god okay so there's a bunch of stuff that's all now kind of coming together what i said earlier about the meaning of justification we'll come to that in a second but again

let me see let me point out something in case you've missed it as I've been going through or maybe I didn't share it well Enough everything so far James is not talking about how you get saved that's assumed it's by faith James is talking about how you show you have faith get this he's not talking about how salvation is accomplished he's talking about how salvation is demonstrated that is a massive different issue and it helps us understand the passage and it works so perfectly with what he quotes from Abraham check this out in verse 21

he says when not was on Abraham our Father justified by works when he offered up his his son Isaac on the altar so again justified them the theological meaning of justified means you're made righteous but the word meaning itself just means to show or prove to be right it can also mean to make righteous just to proclaim someone who's righteous to vindicate so I think we have clear indicators in James too that the term justified is not being used in the Theological sense it can not mean that theological sense and I'll say this when I

when I first heard James - especially dot dialoguing with Catholics I was like oh yeah you know I don't really know how to refute that but when I sat down and I studied the passage in context it was like the light went on and I thought how could anybody use this passage for this that's not what it's saying but what it's saying is very important but it's not justification in the salvific sense How do I know that let's read verse 21 again was not Abraham our Father justified by works when he offered up his son

Isaac on the altar so this justification if Abraham happened at a specific moment according to James and that justification whether it was salvific or if it just met proven to be true you know proving that he had real faith whichever one he meant it happened when Isaac was offered on the altar and that's what rules out the salvific Meaning because Abraham was justified in a salvific sense decades earlier in Genesis 15 let me read the passage to you and you consider this is this a salvation justification in Genesis 15 it certainly as Genesis 15 for

and behold the word of the Lord came to him saying this one shall be shall not be your heir but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir that was Eliezer his servant will not be this heir someone who will be born from Him then he brought him outside God brings him outside says look now toward heaven and count the Stars if you're able to number them I love the visual right every hand was like in a tent he's asked to come outside the tent and he looks up at the sky

and he sees the Stars and God goes look up but try to count him you can't and and he says to him so shall your descendants be and verse 6 and he believed in the Lord and he accounted to Him for righteousness abraham believed in God and faith was accounted to him for righteousness now this is not clearly this is not justification in some sense of Abraham was proven to be a true person no it's it doesn't even use the word just justified it says and God accounted it to him for righteousness and this is

of course what Romans talks about Galatians talks about this is the theological meaning so when was Abraham justified or Accounted righteous it was in genesis 15 decades years and years before the Isaac incident that James talks about in James chapter 2 so what what's the Isaac incident let's look at that verse 20 to 12 of Genesis so you guys actually most of you know the story right Abraham he's told to offer his son and he prepares to do the sacrifice Scott stops him and then tells him this in Genesis 22 12 and he said do

not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to Him for now I know that you fear God since you've not withheld your son your only son from me now I know see what what justification happened with Abraham when he offered up his son his faith was proven true you really did believe God didn't you Abraham how do I know because I as a human I saw you offer your son as a sacrifice you really do believe you really do believe that fits exactly the theology of James the theology of Galatians Romans at all

works Let me read James again so we can see it in this context knowing those these decades difference between when he was declared righteous and accounted righteous I should say and when he was justified in the James sense was not Abraham our Father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar you see that faith was active along with his works and faith was completed by his works and the scripture was fulfilled that says going back Decades abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness and he was called

a friend of God so yes you're saved by just faith but you demonstrate that faith by works even though they may come years later if you really believe give it some time you will bear fruit that shows that you have that faith so what justification happened when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar he was just demonstrated or shown to be true in his faith that that's the Justification not even possible that the theological meaning is meant there it's ruled out by the context of Genesis verse 24 he says you see that you

see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone again that were justified here means vindicated demonstrated connecting it to earlier in James he says I will show you my faith a person is shown to another person their faith it's not about how I'm saved before God it's how I demonstrate that Before people how I show it to them that justification of my claim to be a Christian that's produced by works so I'll show you my faith by my work by my works just like Abraham was justified by works when we what

saw his faith played out in his offering of Isaac beautiful important truth definitely not Catholic theology definitely not Mormon theology definitely not jehovah's witness teaching or any other group verse 25 and in the same way was not Rahab also Rahab The prostitute justify by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way obviously you know whatever since in which Abraham was justified Rahab was also justified in the same sense that's the context of the passage so if Abraham was justified in the sense of a demonstration that his faith is real he's

validated then so Rahab was given that same validation to show that she has living faith because she took action based upon those things And then verse 26 our last verse in James I have a few other things to share with you and then I'll take your guys questions questions challenges disagreements put them in the live chat on YouTube and I will respond to those live with you right now very graciously and happily I will verse 26 it says for as the body apart from the work excuse me apart from the spirit is dead so also

faith apart from works is dead the issue here isn't you have to Have this thing called faith and if you have faith without works you're lost or faith with works you're saved no no he's describing two different kinds of faith faith that's a live faith it's dead and how does one tell which faith you have well faith with works that must be the faith that's alive faith without the works that's faith that's dead just like a body without the spirit or a body with no pulse with no breathing with with no Movement well that must

be a dead body okay and a body that's moving that must be alive so the symptoms of life are the things that the spirits the spirit is invigorating the body and so the symptoms of faith that faith is alive are that works are coming from that person's life this is the theology of James it's beautiful it's great and it's radically abused and butchered by every every false and twisted group out there when it comes to the gospel twisting the Gospel they always use James - that's why you need to know this passage that's why I

thought studying it together thoughtfully carefully would produce hopefully an army of people who know how to use James to properly so what kind of faith do you have that's the question do you have this faith that saves or that faith that doesn't well I don't know well why don't you check it by your works just like you check the vitals of a person to see if they're alive vitals Don't make them alive but they're symptoms of that so dead faith doesn't save you living faith does save you but it's faith that saves just in James

as it is in Galatians as it is in Romans as it is in reality so here's a summary of some of the theological points I've made and then I'm gonna give you a summary of my methodology and then all I'll challenge us with what if I was wrong what would that imply I think this is a systematic way of thinking about it and Hopefully it's helpful for you this passage does not combat or contradict the idea of salvation by faith apart from works that's one theological point this does I can be fully assured that I

can say I'm saved by faith alone apart from works that's definitely biblical teaching and this does not challenge it it combats the idea of dead faith saving the simply I believe even though I don't follow Jesus with my life what what James would Say is well you don't really believe in the way that Jesus is asking you to in a salvific way your faith is dead so it's not about how somebody gets get catch this James assumes you know the gospel salvation by faith this is not about how you get saved it's how you show

your saved to someone else how do I prove to you that I'm a Christian look at my life does my life prove it if not then maybe I'm not works demonstrate saving faith So mere intellectual belief is not what's meant by saving faith although we have intellectual belief in that sense no that's not what that's not what it's about real saving faith is living faith in a resultant works and works here are finally not salvific works don't take dead faith and turn it into living faith you still need to get living faith works our result

they're not the cause they're the effect that's the difference so in The formula for salvation that I would get from Catholicism it would be I mean not every Catholic would agree but I think the Council of Trent would agree with me on this right so it's salvation is faith plus works equals salvation but the Christian definition and James would agree is faith equals salvation plus works if I'm really saved works will come how do I prove that that real faith is there well are there real works here because it will result in works now Listen

real quickly to what I did not do I did not rely on quotes outside the Bible just now to subvert a simple study of the text right we just studied the text I did not offer pretty analogies to move away from the meaning of the text in its context I didn't read deep theological meanings into words specialized meanings into words that are used in a variety of ways I just let the word mean what it means justified as in validated I used I Didn't use one observation to distract from the context the contextual interpretation so

I didn't go well the only time the Bible says faith alone is when it's just not by faith alone except it's obviously not not talking about the same thing that the person is talking about in that context I did not rely on misrepresenting anybody I didn't demonize people I just demonstrated the text and harmonization helps me because now when I go back to Romans and Galatians and Ephesians it all is perfectly harmonized this all goes together but I don't even know how and I actually want to know like if you're a Catholic and you're watching

this and you're theologically minded what do you do with Romans 11:6 where it says if it's by grace it's no longer on the basis of works otherwise grace would no longer be grace it's like is it by grace or works and the two are are diametrically opposed if you're Gonna say it's faith plus works well Romans 11:6 tells you no that's not an option it's by grace not works otherwise grace isn't even grace it's just definitional Romans four gets it gets across the same point it says now to the one who works his wages are

not counted as a gift but as his due and to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly his faith is counted as righteousness just as David also speaks Of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works but what do you do as a Catholic with that passage now I see James just totally in harmony with Romans and Galatians and I don't see how you could how you could I don't know how you could deal with it if you take James out of context you

read theological meanings into justification instead of just the word I don't know what you do with Ephesians two in fact Ephesians two is Like echoing James it says for by grace you've been saved through faith and this is not your own doing it is the gift of God not a result of works so that no one may boast for we are his workmanship and here's James created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them so I'm saved by grace apart from works but that results in works so

how do I show I'm saved I showed the result of salvation in my life yeah I'd love to see the Catholic view on Galatians Romans Ephesians and even interact with someone if if they're you know put up a video or two showing me that you can interact rationally on the issue and I'd love to talk with you about it openly because I think people learn a lot from those kind of conversations so there you go there you go now somebody might follow up and say but Mike you've ignored Romans 2 actually I have a video

on Romans 2 where it talks about being safe saved by Works yeah it's not what it's about but it's actually called the most misunderstood passage in the book or most misused passage in the book so I have a video on Romans 2 I'll put a link in the description after the chat and what I want to do right now is um AJ if there are any questions if you could go ahead and send those over to me that would be great okay so I'm gonna wait for your guys questions to come in if you have

a question put it in the live Chat right now I have something to share while I stall for time I just I want to hear especially from people who disagree with me not so I can attack you I want you to get a chance to voice your opinion I've been talking for a while so you get to share your opinion and what you'd what you don't agree with and if if you do agree if you're a Catholic I just saw in the chat there's a Catholic who says I agree with you I think you're right

there so my question is do you do You disagree with the Catholic doctrine or do you just think that the Catholic doctrine is different than what I think it is like what do you think about that that'd be my question for you Martin I'd also like to know I'd like you to know that the reality is there's a reason for James - there's a lot of people out there who think that they know Christ and they don't and I can't think of it of anything more important than knowing Jesus man than knowing that you're saved

And having true faith in Jesus Christ if you're if you're life like if you're just being attacked by the enemy and you're just paranoid because your life isn't perfect and so you get beat up all the time and if there's any any area of your life where you're struggling then you feel like you must not be saved like that's that's the end of me I don't think you I think you need to like you need to have more trust in God's grace and mercy and realize you're putting a Burden on yourself that you probably wouldn't

even apply to anyone else right anyone else in your shoes you would say oh you're you're a believer you're safe look your life has been changed by Jesus you know but but maybe there is a person listening who you you don't follow Jesus like you just don't like to you works is like when you every once in a while go to church but my entire life is about the Lord as a Christian I have a kingdom mindset I control my tongue because of Jesus I change the things I like and love because of him I

love others I love God first like I'm not saying a sinless perfection or something along those lines but I'm saying a transformed life and evidence of your faith if you can't show your faith by your works you don't have saving faith that's James chapter 2 and you need to repent there's a solution see this is not a condemnation it's all over this is a wake-up call right there's a mirror Being held up to say hey you need Jesus like you've got to give your life to Jesus Christ you need to get down on your knees

and repent of your of your um your lack of belief the difference between you and the demons is that they tremble and you boast like they believe in God in they're scared of judgment you believe in God and you think judgments a joke because you haven't really offered your life to the Lord and and so give your life to Christ give your life to Christ I pray that you would have a godly fear and that would lead you to a repentance and then you would be able to say no my life has been changed so

let me let me take any questions you guys have now I think I have a few now coming in okay so from bin Zeeland Ben Zealand it says what do you think about the appearances of the Virgin Mary you know I I've never looked like deeply into those things at the appearances of The Virgin Mary largely I tend to be very like my default positions to be fairly skeptical on claims like that I realize how easily people are fooled and tricked and how once a story starts like I remember when somebody as a joke told

some kids that there was like ghosts in our church as a joke they told him this and then some of those kids later were like yeah we saw him we saw the ghost like it was psychosomatic you know what I mean it was just just kids They probably played playing Slenderman on back when it was when it was a new thing and I I don't want a mock I'm not mocking at all I just saying that I think people are like that so I tend to be extremely skeptical but let's say hypothetically that there's an

appearance like of the Virgin Mary and and weeks what we think is the Virgin Mary and then people are being led to worship there and to build altars and to make offerings and to make trips to that Place I think the that's not a godly thing I mean I don't think that's biblical I don't think it's sound i I don't think so I think that this is something that the the Catholic Church started doing in the Middle Ages and they never stopped and not just the Catholic Church but people were doing back then and they

just never stopped um maybe it'd be worth me doing a longer answer to that question with some actual research and stuff behind it but I Alters I've seen seem very pagan to me and didn't seem Christ honoring and the the distraction from Jesus that it becomes I think Mary would be bothered I think if she could show up she would show up at those places and knock those altars down and tell people to get back to Jesus so I'm yeah this is a question from spades nuke Spades nuke I am a Protestant that believes in

faith only for justification in my opinion James 2 teaches that faith That doesn't result in repentance and the want of turning away of crazy sin like you can't think that murder is right and have saving faith I believe in just in faith justification I believe that James too is teaching that you can't have saving faith if it doesn't produce repentance and turning away from sin like murder what do you think about this I would agree with you except for the okay so from what I understand about your question it's the idea that murder Becomes the

big one right like like I'm gonna I'm gonna compartmentalize sin which I'm not actually opposed to the idea entirely there are different levels of sins so to speak sin it some sins are worse than others I know some are really bothered that I just said that right now but if you'll think about it for a moment the law has different consequences for sin doesn't that imply that sins different degrees Jesus talked about how some would suffer greater Judgment than others that implies that certain sins have greater punishment because they're worse all sin is horrifically evil

and that's a mistake people make they think some sins are little they're not little they're just not as bad as the other one and that that's where I would say I would maybe disagree murder of course is pretty serious but Jesus he seemed to elevate this and he says like hey you hate your brother in your heart you've committed Murder in your heart you look with less you've committed adultery in your heart so he's showing us that even even those issues are things that need to be brought to the Lord I don't think any Christian

is sinless if they are then I I really want them to make a youtube channel and teach us how to do that and I wouldn't mind hanging out with him for a week just to see if they're real cuz I doubt it but um but yeah I think that maybe You need to have a much bigger list than murder a much bigger list than murder is there the results of sanctification in your life is that happening that's the question obviously we can we can find any one sin and condemn ourselves over it eternally but but

the alternative of having one really bad sin as long as I don't do that I'm okay I don't think that's biblical Oh sometimes this this my app like jumps around okay here it is from Douglas Dobbins do you think that do you think faith necessarily produces works or just that works are the only way the world can see our faith I'd say James to teaches about justification in the eyes of men not God okay the way you just put that is fantastic I think James too speaks about justification in the eyes of a man not

God yes and I would also say a different kind of justification justification in the sense of proof whereas in the eyes of God my Justification comes in a sense of a salvation so do I think that facing the faith yes necessarily faith will produce works but it takes time in the example of Abraham it was years between one and the other James is just speaking about works in general he's not talking about sacraments he's not suggesting that in fact isn't it interesting that sorry I'll come back to your question that um that all of the

groups who use James - they don't take The examples of James of good works and say do these right control your tongue help people in need keep yourself unspotted from the world those aren't the examples of works they're examples of works are you have to do our list of things right you have to speak in tongues or you're not saved you have to come underneath the Pope or you're not saved you have to have the Eucharist confirmation you have to have you know the job is witnesses have their List of works that have to be

performed the Mormons have their list of good works they all have their lists but that's not James's list nor is he talking about it performing those for the sake of salvation so but how does this apply to see the thief on the cross the thief on the cross he dies right after putting faith in Jesus deathbed conversion no good works none to demonstrate his faith now Had he lived would he have played out good works yes he would and that's that's what James is talking about someone who's Christian and they're living life where's the fruit

and it really is the only way to prove you have real faith to the world or to other believers for that matter from jihad Stuart the question is I was told told by a pastor today that apologetics isn't as effective for speaking to Millennials However our personal testimonies are I think both are imperative when ministering to unbelievers thoughts I've heard this before myself where people say that apologetics is not is not effective apologetics doesn't work I find myself seriously questioning the people who say this I get messages okay I I have a small online ministry

I mean compared to other ministries I have a small online ministry and I get messages regularly from people who've been Impacted and affected by the use of apologetics in fact it's one of the things people are the most excited about the things that I do is my videos where I deal with apologetics there's people who've been saved by it countless people been saved through things like evidence that demands a verdict or through watching the debates that William Lane Craig does apologetics is effective and to say it's not means you're you're one you're not paying attention

and two You're the kind of person that's okay just blanket dismissing things without even knowing the truth about it because it's not true like this is not true apologetics is effective I think that there's an ulterior motive probably for why they would want to to say it's not effective and I don't think that that's wise not to mention a careful study of the book of Acts reveals a consistent use of apologetics a consistent use of apologetics so You're actually like would you I mean you have to tell it to Paul Paul I know your reasoning

from the scriptures that Jesus is the Messiah because he's Pro filled prophecy you know you're going to the synagogues and you this all the time but that's affective Paul like okay read your Bible buddy yeah now it's possible they've been exposed to really negative apologetics or apology apologists who have bad character ungodly character and Ungodly characters not good but apologetics is very effective okay from TD it says all of my non-christian friends are extremely interested in understanding why we should believe any worldview well that's a really interesting thing um I don't think you have a

choice I think you're gonna believe a worldview the only question is is your worldview consistent or inconsistent that's one question and I should say there's another one and is Your worldview accurate or inaccurate so you can have a consistent worldview that's not true or you can have an inconsistent worldview which obviously can't be fully true if it's inconsistent with itself so someone who thinks like I think we all just go wherever we think we're gonna go when we die and yet you know then you ask about Hitler and they're like oh that guy why the

hell you like okay you have an Inconsistent worldview for sure I would say an atheist who believes in genuine morality in my opinion has an inconsistent worldview and an inaccurate worldview so yeah like your your friends they they already believe a worldview the question is is it accurate you can't avoid it it's it's not avoidable yeah it's just a question of being whether it's accurate or not I think that that's actually an attempt in my opinion to avoid having to decide anything because It's so much nicer to be the critic sitting on the sidelines just

kind of casually criticizing people and then when people are like what do you think you don't ever offer what you really believe what you really think because then you wouldn't be able to survive your own criticisms um and so it's kind of like an intellectual laziness that really undermines a person from finding the truth from Troy heads or Gettys does Mike believe that Romans 4:16 is based On saving faith does might believe that Abraham is a prototype for saving faith I'm gonna bring up Romans 4:16 and it says that is why it depends on faith

in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham who is the father of us all I think that romans 4:16 is both about saving faith and about a specific promise that Abraham received so because abraham believed in the specific promises God gave he's believing in God he has saving faith but not everyone saving faith will result in believing in the same promises in the same way I know that's that's nuanced

but I think that that's what Romans 4:16 is about and your your second question was do I believe that Abraham is a prototype for saving faith absolutely I don't think that there's any way around it I think Abraham is is Is lifted up as being the example of how we are saved by faith and that this understanding that really really changes the way you understand Galatians and Romans especially Romans 4 where he's building a careful case in fact I have I have Bible studies all the way through Romans 15 now and so I encourage you

to go look at Romans 4 if you're interested in more of my opinions on that that's all online and from Blaine mckinsey I think this will be our last question It says I'm high blank good good to hear from you why does Paul say that in first Corinthians 13 to that though though he have all though he has all faith it's useless if he doesn't have love is he teaching faith + love okay that's it really interesting I'm gonna bring up the passage real quick first Corinthians 13 - okay let's just read it in in

context of Romans first Corinthians 13 if I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but Have not love I'm a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal and if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but have not loved I am nothing and he goes on here Paul is not I don't believe Paul speaking about saving faith at all I think that he's talking about faith to move mountains so there's there's there's faith I know that they're the two are

connected in Some sense but there's a difference between I believe in Christ and therefore I'm saved and I'm praying for this thing God grants me faith to believe him on this issue and some crazy amazing miracle happens that wasn't saving faith right that was faith for miracles which is a little different and so um let's suppose that God's granting you this gift of faith and you're believing him and praying these wonderful miracles are happening yet you Don't have love you're nothing you're not special you're nothing so my answer Blaine would be I don't think that

that's about saving faith at all so it's not saying faith + love equals salvation it's it's just saying any of these incredible Christian qualities of tongues prophecy miracles you take out love and is pointless it's so he's showing them quote the more excellent way in first Corinthians 13 so I think that's all the questions so I Have a quick announcement for you guys and it's that I am now on podcast it's so it's official I've received some encouragement from people online to get to do a podcast and I've finally actually got it going it took

a long time because it turned out I had to have a website before a podcast and the website took a lot longer than I thought and but the websites up that's Bible think org but you can also find me now on iTunes and stitcher and I'm trying to Get onto other pod you know platforms as well so if you want to go look up either my name Mike winger or if you look at Bible thinker you should be able to find my podcast there it's probably got six or seven episodes so far and I'll be

uploading a bunch more very rapidly because I'm gonna get us all caught up to where we are now and you can listen without the data issues that some people have trying to watch this stuff on YouTube and hopefully hopefully that'll Be a big blessing for you guys and just be able to be used for the kingdom I love getting to do this I'm so excited I'm so excited about biblical truth and sharing it and I loved taking challenging and hard issues and getting the clarity that comes from God's Word because God's already built clarity into

the text we just have to spend the time reading and studying it to get that clarity it's it's all it's all there I'm so my confidence and trust not only in The truthfulness of God's Word but its sufficiency has grown year by year by years the more I've studied it the more I've researched it and I'm excited to not just make that claim but but to get that teaching out and do the at least the best of my ability whatever gifting God's given me to get that teaching out make it as accessible as possible so

podcast on iTunes stitcher they've both approved my podcast at least for now hopefully it stays that way it's Free you can you can download and get it all there you could also listen to the audio of some of these things on bible thinker org or 180 videos or whatever that are up on that website as well it's all free and that'll be it until until next time thanks guys again for being here thank you AJ from on during the live chat and anybody who's stuck with me this long I appreciate your prayers if you can

I mean you're here this long in the live Stream because you you probably care about this ministry and you think there's a value in it I greatly appreciate those those prayers of yours I'm seeking to try to keep pushing that forward it's the only difficult thing for me is the amount of time it takes because I'm I'm definitely a little bit overworked at the moment I'm trying to figure how to create that balance I wouldn't want to to overdo it but I do want to get spent for the Lord so Appreciate your guys at your

guys time and your support and even your disagreement you think I'm nuts you think I'm wrong put it in the chat tell me not if you're if you listen say this is not live anymore and you're watching the replay please oh please put why I'm wrong not just that I'm wrong specifically detailed you know answer why I'm wrong right there in the in the in the comments section and if I've time I'll reply but it's not enough to just Say Protestants are always blank blank blank like big baby head right that that's what that is

and we're not interested so and if you do check out the podcast if you go and you have a chance to rate it and give it if you if you think it's worth 5 stars give it 5 stars or give it a good rating or review that actually really helps more people get to hear the message alright god bless you guys have a fantastic day or night wherever you are in the