How to Skip Your CFI to Fly a JET // #54 - Bypass the Process and Soar!

what I I could go deeper into that and say by the time that from from the time that I've had my initial commercial fixed Wing license to now uh which is only a year and nine months I've flown at least 1300 hours nice nice man that's great that's great foreign welcome to the pro pilot Playbook where we give you the tips tricks and hacks to become an airline pilot faster and cheaper and this is episode number 54. we're very excited here we're starting a new series where we have guests in this case a parsley in-person guest on the show and I think you're really gonna like this episode um we we put a uh we put this episode on the fast track to get put together and the reason why is our uh most viewed episode uh of the pro pilot playbook in the last three year history has been a video on skipping your CFI so we know that our viewers have a very keen interest in that topic uh uh and you guys are up and coming so we wanted to build on that and add on that um so this is the continuation of that video and we thought what better idea but to bring a real live professional pilot who's made in the industry on the show that's actually skipped to CFI in real life so we're happy to have Jordan with us and and Sean he's a good friend of Sean's and I'll let him do the introduction yeah yeah Mike you know I I'm sure the viewers have noticed this is the first time I think I'm out of my office recording one of these things and uh you're always all over the place now you're at home in the office yeah yeah we're here in Georgetown Kentucky the Georgetown Kentucky Airport I just thought this would be a nice location to have Jordan meet me at and uh yeah we're sitting here in one of the hangars hopefully it doesn't get too noisy with planes going by and stuff this Airport's usually pretty dead and as soon as we hit the record button you know there's 14 airplanes flying by but uh yeah Jordan has uh not only when I came across Jordan's story it really struck me because not only did he do the exact thing a lot of our listeners are excited about which is very important skipping your CFI can save you tons of time and and you're getting right out there doing the job sitting in the right seat of being an actual paid pilot instead well not that being a CFI isn't being a paid pilot but it's a lot different sitting in the right seat of a machine like this sitting behind us versus the little Cessna you know getting all sweaty all day but uh I thought you know maybe we would just let Jordan uh in you know Jordan isn't just he's been doing this for a while Jordan I I think maybe I I should just shut up and stop rambling and let you tell your story a little bit about how uh you know what maybe just start at the beginning you know how did you go to your training did you did you go to one of those hurry up get them done schools like ATP or were you the guy going to the local airport taking your flight lessons and stuff yeah I was definitely the ladder guy uh I I was um you know I actually right here at this airport is where I started my training uh there was a little R22 here and I didn't know anybody that was in aviation so I I really you know I didn't have the pro pilot Playbook and anything like that in order to to kind of guide where I was going in this industry and uh so I kind of just hopped up here one day and uh you know there's a guy up here that was given flight lessons actually out of a helicopter in R22 uh and you know getting getting that private was was an amazing uh accomplishment and it was a blast but it was not cheap and I know that's kind of what you guys are pitching with the podcast here is how to get it done fast um you know cheap and effectively and I did it completely the other way right yeah the helicopters I mean what's a helicopter it's probably like three times as much as a a little Cessna or something yeah I mean this was before all the all the price hikes but I think it was around 375 an hour so yeah getting too fun but so was your intention to become a professional helicopter pilot or was it just to have fun at it was man I I really uh there's an helicopter right there but I you know I really love helicopters there may amazing machines uh but it is super hard to get in that job industry compared especially as a guy with low time uh compared to getting in you know the right seat of a jet and uh you know doing the job that that I do now but uh I have been in both Industries I've had a job as a helicopter pilot and I've had a job um you know as a as an sic in an airplane and um it's and and also a captain now uh oh cool so when you said Jordan just got some news this is kind of a cool little thing maybe we get in this later but Jordan just got some fantastic news as of last night it was kind of a surprise but uh go ahead Mike what were you gonna say okay uh yeah I guess we'll come back to that yes so uh so when you're a hell uh you said it's difficult to be a low-time helicopter probably starting out is that because there's a lot of military uh guys in the field yeah the influence is there the first job that I had pretty much I would say at least half of those seats that were filled were helicopter guys so yeah military guys so would you say as far as getting your private license is it is it harder in a helicopter than a plane I mean you've done both or what what are helicopters harder to fly yeah that was actually uh an interesting transition because a lot of the time that applied uh you know to my private to your licenses actually transfers over um to the fixed Wing so you know your total time and all that and it does make it a lot easier because you're not sitting in those Ground School sessions going oh what's an airport what are the markings what what's weather you know because you kind of already know all that or you should at least yeah well I mean I think what Mike would as far as getting your private in the helicopter do you feel like it I mean do you have any awareness of whether it took you longer to get your private going the helicopter route than somebody going in at Cessna 172. man that's that's a that's always been a toss-up I think that I think it's harder as far as uh you know I don't I don't even want to say skill because there's so much skill associated with both but it is harder to grasp those physics really that you're using in order to hover and you know all that kind of stuff okay and then do you do cross-countries in a helicopter like yeah yes sir you do uh I forgot what the time was maybe it's maybe it's 25 or heck I don't know maybe it's just 10 I think for the private because I've got commercial as well so but yeah you gotta you gotta do cross-countries a lot of that stuff is is still the same so I suppose the instrument rating in a helicopter almost is non-existent correct so you you worked on your private build up time and then took your commercial check ride right I never did the the instrument there's a lot of people that I knew that do have an instrument um in helicopter but I never never did that because that's even more costly so but of course you have to do it in an airplane there's no if fans or buds that you know that's a must that's a must and it really uh it really increases your in-depth knowledge of airplanes and flying and what goes on when you have your instrument there's uh you know if you have a a license you have to get your instrument immediately too so yeah so uh just to give our viewers I just thought of something we should have covered right in the beginning um Jordan how much uh what's your total time at right now I'm sitting uh right at about 2 000 hours that's total time okay gotcha and um how much time you have in Jets now Jets is about a thousand seventy five so wow like that yeah okay so you got your you got your commercial helicopter and uh you went uh did you what was your next thing did you find a helicopter job did you realize yeah maybe maybe I went the wrong direction here yeah exactly I did get a helicopter job I got a lot of hours from doing that but just to try and shorten the story here I ended up finding out that wasn't for me I kept looking over at the guys you know getting out of jets on the ramp because they Park us helicopter guys way away from the Jets anyways and I was like man that that'd be awesome to do that because you're going all across the country you're going to great places and uh you know I always wanted to do that so I kind of just uh I did a hard stop on it I Quit um and I started to work at a local FBO here and I think that's one of the major keys on getting in the industry is is knowing people and just being in that space is just so important uh and and also just your your personal interactions on a daily basis with people that are in the industry uh and you know that's that's really a big deal because if you have those certifications there is a need for it to be filled and you know personability and just talking to to guys it kind of helps you get in that seat a lot that's a very important point so expand on that for the viewers tell them what an FBO is and what your job was what you did in that it's a fixed base uh operator they fuel the airplane uh Park the airplane uh we we call them ramp guys and and ladies I've been seeing a lot more ramp ladies on the ramp recently yeah for some reason I but that's pretty cool they do a great job um but yeah so pretty much just uh assistance um for to uh you know form the the kind of line that they want that day with the airplanes Park the nose into the wind all that kind of stuff that's what what an FBO does but you kind of that's how you get your feet wet and of course you're not making a lot of money and so that's always kind of a tough pill to swallow but it does allow you to meet people in the industry you know especially if you're you don't know anybody that's that's in the industry it really helps so yeah we're always harping on the networking you know it's way better to go get a job at the local airport fueling airplanes and towing airplanes around than it is to go get a job at uh you know the local Enterprise Branch or something you know you're out there interacting with the people doing the job whatever you want to do yeah yeah shout out to uh I was at Orlando Executive last week and uh one of the line guys stopped me uh Penny shout out to Kenny said he's a fan and he's working on his license so you know you you hear that time and time again uh the guys break into the industry by just being around planes they make connections you're meeting jet owners you're meeting Pilots um you know you might not be making a ton of money but you're learning a ton of valuable stuff and then absolutely you know it just which is really amazing is this a new guy or did you get recognized again is this amazing all over man gosh no nobody ever recognizes me it must not be approachable that must be what it is you're not a pro maybe uh maybe I just never fly that's right I just never work enough from my job you know at the FBO uh I was I was knocking it out of course I was already a commercial pilot so I ran straight into uh being a commercial fixed Wing pilot um did you have to well you have to do a transfer how's that work it's another check ride correct exactly right but it's real low like you just have to have a few hours especially the private it was like 15 hours oh you didn't worry about that so I just went straight over to commercial um so you know obviously the standard for your flying is a lot higher going from that private to the commercial but right you know if you have that experience it'll be okay but they so if you're a fixed-wing guy and you want that helicopter license for recreational use or maybe you're just interested in helicopter job it also works the other way too right um I think it's like what 15 or 20 is it 25 or 15.

it's something like that number of hours to add on that license yeah yeah I think it's I think it's 25. okay don't quote me on that oh but then I got my instrument uh and and you know like I said earlier that's key uh you gotta you gotta have that instrument and then you got the multi so there is a multi-layered process in this and I do want to bring up that you know anything that's worth having really in Life or anything that's worth doing it does take a lot of work right you know um yeah and so this is definitely one of those career fields that you do got to put put the work in and you know you're you're taking writtens you're taking check rides and and you gotta you gotta come to play definitely so um so you had your so you got your commercial fixed Wing added the instrument on what was your mindset you're gonna be a CFI started working on your CFI certificate or that was that was the initial mindset um but I did know quite a few people in the in the industry at that time so I tried to start getting in people's ears you know putting the bug in in guy's ears and saying hey you know I've got these now so if you know if it's needed at any time you know give me a shout and uh you know the call did actually come for me um but that being said um I did get my CFI okay but I do feel like that's a badge of honor in the industry too because right you know guys that and and girls that if you're in the industry and say you have a CFI the CFI that's just another level there well that's one thing we say in the program but one of the things in the program uh you know the pro pilot Playbook program that we sell you know there's a whole section A whole module on this whole skipping your CFI thing but we preface all of that with you know just because you're skipping it doesn't mean you know not getting it is a good idea I've said over and over throughout my career I really didn't learn how to fly until I had to teach somebody how to do it absolutely right um I did get a CFI job uh but quickly after uh I got the job that I have now so okay so I think that having that you know maybe on your resume or maybe uh them seeing you out on the ramp kind of doing doing that CFI job and having those certifications do significantly increase your chance of getting in that right seat and making that jump so basically as soon as you got your CFI you got approached or you found a a job explain what that job was uh that job it was a part 91 operator um and uh it was in so now I have time and uh Sovereign got the the CJ's uh Hawkers which is what's sitting behind us yeah right behind us here 800 yeah or XP or something yeah um exp yeah but this yeah this is actually one of the airplanes you fly yeah correct yeah awesome and a few various other ones um but but yeah man that's that's been my road and it's definitely been longer than I wanted it to be but you know that's kind of you just got to get jumped through those hoops and and get in that seat so yeah yeah great so do you feel Jordan that your job uh at the airport working at the FBO as a line person do you think that may have been the bridge that allowed you to bypass all all the instruction and valuable like having that job was was the best thing that that I've ever done really because it I would have had no other way of of breaking in and and meeting the guys that I know now um and I'm I'm lucky enough to to have gotten that job which it wasn't a hard job to get because a lot of people don't want to do that kind of manual labor so it's it's not tough to get the job but it is a tough job in the elements and stuff uh but it was very uh valuable to me you know maybe not uh the money but the experience that was associated with it and who I met through doing it I'm I'm just curious because I mean to me it's a no-brainer but because I'm looking back through my career of you know doing this for over 20 years now 20 actually this year's year 27 I think or something I've been flying I think actually getting paid it's less than that but um you know looking at all of it from my perspective it like seems so simple yeah like why wouldn't you do that but was your mindset at that point when you're a CFI like did that even enter your headspace of a possibility that somebody might hire you to sit right seat in their Jet and you're you're just now starting off teaching your first student yeah not at all man not at all you know when I thought that uh I thought that's what I was going to be doing for you know a year and a half two years with that 1500 hours right ATP just kind of go down that road but they're you know the alternative road is uh you know doing what we what we had talked about but no it was not in my mind at all um I think the Hope was always there um but yeah when my number got called man I was I'll jump for joy but you see it you see it now you see like if you had to go back and do it all over again I mean you you can see how easy it was right yeah oh for sure right and that's what we're trying to that's why we wanted to have you on I mean so somebody first hand just you know that's close to that you know just went through that um I'm just yeah the networking thing is huge but I mean you feel like how do I ask this I mean you could have sought that out you could have you know beat feet to the street and went out there and pounded on doors and it exists it exists it definitely does and and I think you were telling me you guys were both telling me about how you have a list compiled for the viewers uh oh it's part of the program yeah the part 91. you know operators that are out there and you can get their number right yeah so right yeah it comes with the program you can literally search uh I don't even remember now I used to have this number on the top of my head it's like 17 000 different aircraft spread across the country yeah yeah it's a lot so Jordan what what's the time frame then of all this from when you first started flying to where you're at now I know you have 2 000 hours but what how many years have you been at it I've been at it for eight years eight years now uh a lot of that was a financial thing because you know Learning to Fly is is not cheap by any means so uh and weather uh there was weather associated with the training and and all that kind of stuff which is super frustrating because you know you can you can train all you'd like and and you can get ready for check rides and all of a sudden well the the airplane needs maintenance or all of a sudden well there's a there's a snowstorm coming in and you can't take the check ride then that DPE is booked up for three more weeks and you get pressed again yeah man so right well some of that eight years I just don't want a viewer going oh man it's 1500 hours to get the airlines I thought I could do this in 18 months two years or something some of that was you were chasing down you know paths that didn't go anywhere like you flew you flew you had a helicopter job yeah you flew a helicopter so what I I could go deeper into that and say by the time that from from the time that I've had my initial commercial fixed Wing license to now uh which is only a year in nine months I've flown at least 1300 hours nice nice man that's great that's great yeah so um so when you are doing your uh training in the helicopter did you have like a full-time job was this like a career transition for you before you start working at the FBO and all that I was I was at 21 year old guy I was in college but yeah I mean this I tried to get into it as much as I could and I had a part-time job at that time I got you I got you so uh uh did you uh finish college and everything or did you just move over into Aviation I did I finished College got and what's your degree in well it's it's actually just an associate in arts so I don't have that bachelor's and I was just looking for a way to to get to that four-year degree but yeah I found out that the Airlines and everybody didn't need yeah you didn't need it anymore so I was like to heck with uh you know doing those extra two years and getting fifty thousand dollars in debt yeah in Flight Training is a whole lot more fun yeah exactly yeah so well that's great so you were just saying that uh would you say how many hours in just a last couple uh here's where I'm going uh I just found out and before we hit the record button here Mike and I I didn't even mention this to you you know before we hit the record button uh when we discussed what we were going to talk about there a moment Jordan just got some uh very good news last night what is that Jordan uh yeah just made Captain congratulations yes type trading about nine months ago about eight and a half months ago um and I just kind of went balls to the wall flew as much as possible and uh yeah and it's uninsurable yeah yeah and uh you know he's gonna be captaining around a sovereign which is no that's not a kid's toy that's a 30 000 pound airplane you know yeah yeah awesome great capability oh man well congratulations man that's that's interesting brother it can really get it it can take a lot of people into a short strip right yeah definitely yeah that's a great plane man awesome so so are you only on the solver now are you still flying to Hawker also uh I fly I kind of float around uh mainly I'm on the I'm on the Sovereign uh for the most part uh but I do float around to to other airplanes but I only have a type in the sovereign but you're you're still very early in your career um tell them you know kind of how do you enjoy your job now and what your lifestyle is like uh doing what you're doing what job perfect answer yeah man I don't I really there are some tough days but uh you know I I don't feel like I work a day in my life this is everything that I could have dreamed of everything I could have asked for um I work with some great guys and you know I've got I've had a lot of mentors along the way and and I still work with with a lot of mentors and and guys that are just so willing to uh you know get out there let you uh figure it out by yourself but also give their input and man I just I've got a great job couldn't ask for more yeah it's uh it's always a good day I mean it's what Mike and I are always trying to get across to folks I mean this isn't being a pilot is not working five days a week sitting in a cubicle under fluorescent lights it's working two or three days a week and every time you go to work you're going to somebody's uh vacation spot you know a lot of people are paying a lot of money to go do and you're just you're just going to work and you end up in Cabo for three days yeah man man so what what was your uh Jordan uh what what sticks out what's one of your favorite trips you've done since you started flying professionally um let's see and I've I've been all over the last two years that's kind of uh that's a tough one but I think I think just I'm more of a Caribbean guy I like being down there in the Caribbean and a lot of these private jets man that's where they're going right above those little Islands so yeah staying down there for four five days at a time you know that it's just it's awesome it's you're de-icing a Georgetown and then you're going down there and it's 85 Degrees exactly that's awesome so you I mean I guess I I asked this to our last guest and I'm just curious I mean I mean you now I mean you're in corporate Aviation right now but I mean what is do you have any goal where do you see yourself you know five ten years down the road and I I know you knew you just made captains so now you're gonna settle into that and you know of course Captain usually comes with a doubling of one salary or close to it if it's not a complete double um you know so there's gonna be some fun you're going to have being a captain right I remember the first time I got upgraded it's it's like a whole new job now it's like all the cool possibilities yeah yeah yeah but um where do you see yourself down the road here and uh I think we could all think this but bigger airplanes we we all kind of look over and go man look at that look at that Falcon over there it's a beautiful airplane look at that Gulf Stream right but yeah I would think a bigger airplane but uh you know I'm still going to be doing the same job that's for sure uh maybe more time off um to stay at home with the family and and uh I have a wife so that's it's my job is great because you know you always hear with being a pilot you're gone away from home a lot and you know have having a wife you you do need to be at home a lot so I do have the ability with my job to be at home quite a bit and be a pilot at the same time so it's it's great awesome so Jordan uh looking back at your career to help people um uh and you know I know that you you did a little bit of an orthodox thing where at the helicopter training and all that but I guess it would be beneficial to our viewers if you could do everything you did all over again in today's market because that's what the people are in that are watching it uh what would would you do anything differently absolutely uh if I could have done anything different I would do I would have done the whole thing different [Laughter] I would have fast-tracked um went moved to Florida for maybe six months maybe eight something like that maybe even Arizona because you got great weather out there uh I would have fast-tracked paid you know one of those uh accelerating accelerated accelerated course yeah and I would have just knocked it out in great weather with one of those groups that have a ton of airplanes so this one could break down this one could have problems but you've still got another one so you wouldn't have did the helicopter no no yeah that that would have been completely left out so do you still fly helicopters now at all I would love to man uh I think like I'd love to get back in that seat it's such a blast you know it's kind of hard to find them to rent and stuff if you do they're probably pretty pricey yeah yeah they're they're so pricey just just getting back into one is it's not really uh feasible you know when you get a mortgage and all that you kind of just yeah so I would love to but but not right now so we'll figure it out gotcha gotcha I got one for you Jordan we just had a you know some of our viewers are you know they're just kicking the tires on this whole Aviation thing do I want to be a pilot whatever maybe there's possibly some people that watch this that you know haven't even been in an airplane before and we did an episode just a couple few weeks ago about uh what was the name of Mike what was the scariest have you ever had any is being a pilot scary he's being a pilot scary have you ever had any uh uh you know times you were scared in an aircraft oh absolutely uh you kind of you know you rely on your training in order to get your uh get get out of that situation but the scariest thing I could think of was I used to fly the the pipeline and the power lines and we had a gen failure and a belt 206.

well so this was the helicopter job this one's out got the job of course the you know the pipeline the power washer you're super low uh to the ground so you can survey everything um and we have the generator fail and so we you know all of our our stuff pretty much went out that we were looking at and it's at night so you really need it and uh so we just we we circled around figured out how to get get down and we put it on the uh right next to the road and there's about three or four cops that kept coming by and going oh what the heck's going on here oh yeah and uh wow yeah so that that was probably the scariest thing I've been a part of man yeah wow man that's a good one so a couple quick helicopter questions just because I I've always been kind of fascinated with them so if if you get your airline job maybe someday and you start making all this money as a triple seven Captain you want to buy one can you just keep that at your house and then just take off out of your backyard or what are the rules on that oh man there's so many gray areas associated with this I think the far say if it does not harm people or property but I was just as soon as you asked the question I'm thinking gray area yeah there's so many of those in the fars Federal Aviation regulations but yeah I think it depends on where you live man if you you know if you got five acres somewhere and you say you go to your neighbors because what will get you in trouble is you know your neighbors they're going to say oh my gosh she's got this loud helicopter I've got a baby it's screaming every time it comes over pull the shingles off yeah there's a lot of variables with that but if you live in the city or in the suburbs probably not probably not I gotcha I got you and then I guess I learned I thought it was pretty interesting in researching the Kobe Bryant crash I watched oh yeah that uh you can't uh hover a helicopter in the clouds I didn't know that so yeah yeah out of ground effect hover is what uh that's called and it's generally not what you want to do uh you know when you're in ground effect you know lower to the ground and you've all of that uh dirty air um is is really helping that helicopter stay in the air um okay when you're when you're way up there you don't have the ground effect in order to to help you so you know if you get a crosswind if you get a wind or something you can get into LTE awesome tail rotor Effectiveness um you know that's just not a great idea you at least want to want to you know keep it going a little bit get it have about 10 15 knots and you're good gotcha gotcha that's great Jordan I just uh like I said uh in the beginning like we said in the beginning I mean we can't thank you enough for coming on I think our listeners are going to be blown away at some of the stuff you know definitely you've said here but I got one last question for you unless Mike comes has something else here no go ahead this is your chance maybe I should have prepped you for this but uh do you have anything for that for that guy or girl out there watching this that maybe hasn't even driven through the airport yet or is just thinking about becoming a pilot or maybe they're already in their training or whatever do you have any is there anything that sticks out in your head any piece of advice that you would want to give somebody in that position I think I'll just say you know follow your dreams um if this is what you want to do don't let anything stop you um because there are going to be obstacles along the way and you know get in there make it happen do whatever is necessary in order to make your dream come true because it is achievable it is doable and uh you know the only thing that's stopping you is you right so if you can uh you know get in there and make it happen it is achievable and just go for it follow your dreams that's great advice wow yeah that is wonderful wonderful well hey great great to be on uh maybe we can have you back on again sometime and uh you can do a follow-up on everything but congratulations on uh being a captain uh and I'm sure this is only the beginning of Jordan's career so oh yeah absolutely I'm sure it will be and thank you guys for having me on too man I really appreciate it yeah no problem all right you join us next week we'll get back to uh more of a normal episode I got a helicopter taken off here I don't know if you guys can hear that but um if you have any questions you can always submit them at podcast propilotplaybook.