ICC Mediation Week: Live Semi-Finals, University of Trento and NALSAR University of Law

Hello and welcome again I am the mediation session supervisor for this session welcome please thank you [Applause] okay good afternoon everybody and welcome to today's mediation as you're aware my name is Catherine Heatherton and I'm fortunate enough to be mediating session today so I'd like to invite you before I say anything further to Introduce yourselves to each other because so can I start with the requesting party I'm sorry am I right hi I am Amari Karim I am the CEO of green Global games hi I'm Arjun and I'm here as counsel for Greenberg globally games

good afternoon everyone I'm Georgie kawolik and I'm the CEO of alpha globe and you can call me Joshua good afternoon everyone Dr mediator and I'm Elisa and I'm here as the George's counselor today well thank you all very much a couple of things from me now by way of introduction the first thing I want to say to you is of course that I have read the papers so I am aware of some of the issues and I say some there will be plenty I'm sure that I don't know so I just wanted to bring that

to your attention also to say to you that having been appointed by the ICC to mediate Today I have no conflict of interest can I do one very important thing first and that's confirmed that you each have full authority to reach an agreement here today I confirm we have good luck to anything thank you I do too right all right so a couple of things as you are well aware this is a confidential process and what that means is what goes on in this room will stay in this room and if you are not to

reach an agreement today and this matter will to proceed to Another Forum then anything said today could not be used as evidence in those proceedings so I raised that of course because we know that that gives you today a very special opportunity to engage together in a commercial discussion in the confidence that it will stay here okay and so I encourage you to think about your commercial interests today and your business realities for yourselves and each other and for things That once might be important to both of you of course we know that the lawsuits

very much a part of this discussion and we know that we have eminent Council here to remind you of that if if it is needed so being aware of your legal Alternatives is of course a very important part of today too so I don't want anyone to run away from those but I think it's always very helpful that we have a commercial discussion Okay so I'm going to stop speaking very soon I'm going to invite you to each make an opening statement and I would love those opening statements really to be a summary of what

has brought you here okay the main issues for you and what it might be that you're seeking today as an outcome of this mediation I'd also then know that you would probably what the next one to do an agenda so that will be of course a collaborative constructive process and That's intended to be a framework for our discussion we will then sit here and explore the issues as you have discussed them and if there's anything that we need to add to the discussion I'll be the person that does that all right so you also know

that you can have caucuses today so if you want to have a private discussion with me or indeed you want to have a cross caucus you know that you can do that and you have five minutes to do that You also know that you can take breaks so that you can have private discussions amongst yourselves um and they will be three minutes so my role as you know today is to be the facilitator of this discussion I can't give you any legal advice but I can assist you in the process so I'd encourage you to

do that okay ask me to clarify things ask me to summarize ask me to help you with some questions if you're struggling otherwise I'm going To sit here and let you do your thing I'm going to encourage you to have an open and Frank discussion with each other so remember that I'm here but try not to rely on you too much all right so let's just say that the rules of common courtesy will be how we will engage in this discussion and that they will apply unconscious that we have a whole lot of cultural backgrounds

here we have different Language I'm also conscious of my own accent and the fact that I might often speak too quickly so let's just say we'll agree if we're not understanding or somebody's going too quickly we'll we'll just say that we'll acknowledge the needs that we might have in relation to communication one very last thing I am aware that this is being recorded so I would like and I understand that the purpose of the recording is for live streaming and that There will be a permanent record of this somewhere on YouTube so can I confirm

that everybody here is comfortable with that recording yes all right okay so let's get started could I hear please from the requested heart I'm going to get my head right sorry I've been used to the requesters on the left yes thank you so much Catherine I feel so confident after that beautiful summary knowing that this process is going to be confidential fills me with so much Confidence here today Georgie you know you and I we're really the same person we both believe in the same things lately Alpha glob has been committing itself to climate saving

technology and sustainable digitalization and at Green Global games that's all we do we are a sustainable software Technologies company and we're truly committed to the cause so you know what I've been a techie for 15 years before I started the startup and software I have realized is like life it's complex it's anything can happen and quite like covered you know where the healthiest of us will unfortunately lost to that disease while some of us really made it through multiple times even software too you know you never know what happens it can the strongest products can

be overcome by the smallest Of bugs but it's quite routine in the world of software I mean your iPhones can have bugs it's it's quite routine but what has happened here with happy Earth happy humankind and if I may go back in time a little bit I was so delighted when you came to us with that idea I was so happy to know that someone's going for this game that's portable you can play it on your smartphone your tablet and you're actually influencing real life behaviors With that that's not just a business model that's social

impact and I was so excited that you chose us a young fresh startup to associate with an established organization like yourself well you've been in the market for 30 years and you've LED it so well I was really really excited so I put in all my best Engineers all my good hands they were committed to making this the best product possible and well we did deliver right uh the original product that I Gave you and I'm convinced about this was Flawless it was unblemished there was nothing wrong with it but unfortunately a month into the

release there were a few bugs that were reported in the media and because the game was intended to have such an impact the negative criticism was also unfortunately widespread and that did have an impact on the reputation of the game the consumer started complaining well we know that But today what is important for me is not to understand whys and hows and who's I don't think that's necessary here today we're not here for a Blame Game we're not here to point fingers we're here to find out what exactly is going on so that we can

fix it I'm here with that intention I'm here with that mindset to collaborate you know I have a solution and I'm eager To solve it not just with the bug but also with the negative publicity around us because it is affecting the both of us let's be honest you're the established organization here I'm just supporting you your reputation is my recognition your success is My Success so I'm here to collaborate with you I'm here to support you I'm here to do whatever you want me and for the benefit of both of us to make sure

that we can Perhaps take happy happy Earth and happy humankind to Greater Heights in fact and in fact before any of this happened I did have this amazing idea which I was meaning to talk to you about but perhaps now that we're here we can do it later in the course of the session but I think I'll stop talking now and I'll let my Council come in and time the Loose Ends that I left um of course Amari um firstly thank you for agreeing to this mediation we understand that this is a Legal requirement but

at the same time even if that is the case we really promote and endorse the collaborative people that we are on right now and we hope this is reciprocated on your end as well whereby we can walk away from this table with hopefully solutions that benefit the both of us um if I may just use a slight metaphor I have been an avid player of happy Earth happy humankind since the very first day it came out and even though the single Player experience is fun for me the star of the entire show is the multiplayer

experience where we can we get to be synergetic with teammates across the world if not if not within family members of course I hope this is something that we can apply here as well where in a synergetic way we can come up with solutions that benefit not only a first green Global games and Amari but also you um Georgie and Alpha glob as such Um I always it's always a pleasure being the council for Amari because she does such an eloquent job explaining the situation which is why if I could just briefly suggest the agenda

Catherine that brings us to this table here today I believe there are four primary concerns that we wish to discuss the first is of course the solutions for the bug itself that faces the game right now um the second or the publicity concerns surrounding because Um surrounding the present situation since this has reached the General Media and even the coverage of the game before it was released was quite widespread um the third are the pending costs involved because uh we did complete our obligations under contract and a VR code 70 000 kuna pesos as of

now and the fourth which is something that is more of a long-term long-term agenda is possibly future collaboration because all of us have the same goals here Either in the short term getting this game to its best possible uh pedestal and in the long term which is to save the environment and access the enemy thank you thank you as I previously mentioned I'm the CEO of alpha Globe a company which is established in kunaland and has been working on the gaming industry for about 30 years now providing all its customers with her products which had

like a high quality And you know also exciting and efficient uses and but what happened is that a few years ago we decided we were really interested into promoting the developing of of sustainable Technologies and products and this is the reason why we decided to create the the the game that we're here to talk about happy hurt happy humankind so I feel honored that you're here today with such an open mindset and you said That we are the same person well I really appreciate the fact that you're here today and you recognize that we have

some really some common grounds when we came he came to choose a business partner we thought about you and we saw in you the ideal business partner and that's because you had this AI expertise but not only in fact what is more you had this view about sustainability which actually matches ours So I feel here we have some really some common grounds together we can work with it's really good to hear from you Amari that you're actually the one of your of your main goal during the business is to work with the utmost care and

diligence and I feel you when you say that when you say and I imagine it's true that I understand your effort and your own concerns because 30 years ago I was exactly where you hit where you are right now So I appreciate you being transparent and clear so however I want to make clear today that even though we know that there are some dispirates out of this room I'm here today with an open mindset and as the mediator said and as Elisa explained me before the cancer before this meeting uh mediation it's all about being

transparent and being collaborative and I really appreciate and value the fact that both you Amari and your counselor Has repeatedly said that the current situation however left me devastated for some various reason first of all the funds that we received from hunland Ministry of the environment really pushed us continuously to work even harder so imagine how frustrated it was when I received the information a letter coming From the ministry saying that he had lost he was disappointed in us because of the bad publicity they wouldn't receive and because of the disastrous public relations so my

lawyer Elisa is gonna he's going to talk more about this in order to guide you a dream among my interests but I want to stress that the last thing that I know right now is to lose the founding and what is even more to look even worse to lose the trust of the Ministry secondly what happened they really affected me is the fact that making the user experience an incredible one has always been my main concern so we have managed to build this reputation and we based every reputation to the fact that we were caring

about our customers so we want to pursue that and to reveal our reputation so up to this moment AG was the company that beared all the uh the the major burden for what concerns the bad publicity even though you know that we created this game together we released them together believe me when I say that I really hope that from this controversy none of our company would be damaged because I really believe that you can be uh you can benefit from the publicity and the visibility that a company like AG could give you with its

30 years of expertise and AG at the same time can preserve its already Consolidated image the third issue that really affected me is the fact that the financial situation that the error in the software goes is worsening every day because of the fact that our customer are asking us for refunds and I know that we are the big fish at the table today but however I hope you understand that money and profit are a Concern for us as well finally this issue is jeopardizing our plan to submit the game to the first ever United world

global sustainability competition which will take place later on this year so am I I think you understand that our it's crucial for now for us right now to understand what happened and because of the error but as you said it we do not want to adopt only a forward-looking Approach but we want to look to the Future and so we want to understand how to fix it and as soon as possible I really hope you can put yourself in my shoes as I promise I will do with you and as you said we don't we're

not here to blame ourselves I like the fact you have said we're not playing a blame game but I I want to share the light on what happened and please let's do it together since I know that a lot of information has been shared I ask Elisa please to Sum up my interests and my expectations of course and of course good afternoon am I good afternoon Arjun and good afternoon sorry I'm really glad to be sitting here this afternoon with all of you when Georgie initially heard about the mediation request on your side she was

surprised but since in my career I had many mediations until this point I I have encouraged her to come here With an open mind and trying to have a sincere attempt today because I believe that this could be a good opportunity for both of your companies to re-engage In terms that can be mutually beneficial for both of you I totally agree with Arjun when he says that this could be a synergy we know that the alternative to today's discussion is litigation and this is not the part that we want to Follow today of course we

are here to discuss with you but we have to keep in mind that the possibility is out there however I'm here today not to focus on legal claims but uh here to advocate for Georges and Alpha Global interests and also I hope to make sure that everyone is comfortable at this table as counselor you have a partially already heard it from Georgie my biggest concern as of right now is this letter That Alpha Global received from kunalan Ministry of environment in this letter the minister the ministry that is one of the main investors for Alpha

globals demanded explanation for what happened and it threatened my clients company of Schwing asking the 200 000 kuna pesos that were invested into Alpha Global projects so as Georgie said we are not here to blame each other but I kindly ask you to Understand that this is the background we are coming from explanations are asked to us and the relationship with the ministry is fundamental for Alpha global as Georgia and I see this issue there is a complex set of unknowns that still that hard there so we believe that transparency is absolutely necessary today and

we're here to do that with you what Georgie would like to understand moving forward Since given your artificial intelligence expertise that Alpha Global does not have as you have it's if you have any information about the origins of this um problems is back that arose and if you have investigated in this at the same time it is important to solve the issue as you said and it is also an interest of alpha Globe to understand how much eventually this would cost the issue is difficult there are Technicalities as well as legal positions but we want

to put every Everything of this aside um because we would like to focus on the mutual concerns that are here I would just then like to sum up what are the interests of Georgie at this table because I believe this could benefit everyone here so first of all the mutual interest is to resolve the issue for both of the companies and to Do it as soon as possible secondly it is important for Alpha Global to restore its reputation and I think that George and I are really glad to hear that you have some proposals in

mind uh so we are really glad to hear from you in this manner also because reputation is one of the main reasons why Alpha global initially had a relationship with the ministry a relationship that is deeply valued as I think I have understood As a company Alpha Global is also interested in protecting its financials so avoiding the losses that the refund the requests coming from customers and users are coming and this leads us to a fourth interest that is actually to have compensation both from the economical losses and the reputational ones but I'm sure we

can work together finally the general interest is for the Company to continuing Community committing in sustainability and developing gains about fighting climate change and this is one of the main reasons why Alpha Global wants to participate in this convention at the end of the year I know this has been a lot of information so if you have any clarification you want to ask us please we are here and to conclude that I have understood That you set it up some points of the agenda and I think that is very good because uh we want to

talk about the solution as well we want to talk about you said publicity we call it reputation but I think that it's the same in the core um moreover you said you want to talk about costs and future cooperation I think we can agree on this another Point important for us is to talk about What happens so thank you for listening thank you thank you all very much for those and very informative ideas I want you to do this let's sounds to me that there's quite a strong consensus in relation to the agenda so why

don't we have a few moments just agreeing what might need to go up here let me just use my sheet of paper first before I jump up So I have heard just by way leading the first bit I have heard that you do want to read this at the past just a little because you want to examine the bug and I heard you both say that you want to understand maybe what caused it what happened so therefore you could start discussing what a solution might be is that right is that something a place where there's

something there okay let's put that up So you want to talk about I'm just going to put that in in relation to the Past we're going to talk about the bug what what caused it and fixing it yeah so yes that's something that's one of the things I also heard you you say to me now what else um so I believe that sorry I believe that Um he um I believe that Amari and arjan wanted to talk about publicity as well this is an interest for us to to talk about reputation and we would really

like to hear their proposal about it okay so if I capture that as reputation and you both you both have been happy with that great what next um we mentioned pending costs they mentioned finances so I believe a neutral term to encapsulate that who would uh costs if that's perfectly okay [Music] yeah may I know a bit more what do you mean about cost are those leaning to the past or to the fix in it um I think it is um I think we can broadly consider all Money Matters to come in there which would

include pending payments any other claims General money claims how does that sound however if Catherine you wish to bifurcate and create another Branch I believe we can discuss the past which is The 70 000 tuna pesos as well as any future collaboration and costs for fixing the finding solutions that might really needed so uh maybe I was hearing from Georgie that at this point maybe she would like to put the this point of the agenda before the reputation maybe since it's linked partly to the past as you said the previous contract and party May partly

maybe to Future costs we can link these two points what do you think about it can I make a suggestion here Yeah let us just get the idea yes let's get the themes out okay okay and then we can talk about where we go because my experience with these agendas is that they're very organic the discussion will develop and we'll hop around yes let's make sure we capture it properly one of the things we don't want to spend too much time we know we're going to talk about the money yes yeah so we've got to

talk about the financial impact so how does that sound there's a number Of hit subheadings within that I've heard you both talk about Financial loss in the past I've heard I've had the word compensation come up so we've got a bit of future past and future and I've heard you talk about some ongoing costs that you currently have so is that going to be enough enough I think that would work for us we can discuss it once we get there are you happy with that okay yes I'm happy I think uh eventually Um we're gonna

talk maybe about financial aspect also in the fix it how to solve the problem probably but Financial aspect uh impact I'm sorry that's okay okay um and there were a couple of other things that I heard but this is for you to to bring together what else would you like to do future collaborations yeah um we believe any future Way Forward together as a company as two companies I apologize would be a next Would be the next point to discuss future collaboration that would be good for us okay was there anything else I don't think

so do you agree with these points okay we're happy with this all right okay okay so that's it thank you we can add to it or we can take away from that flexible all right so the next question is where would you like to go first I think let's talk a little bit about what have a general discussion before we hop onto the agenda I would like to ask a few questions and get some clarity before we you know how does that sound so Georgie you did mention the ministry being a little curious about what

happened and I think that's all of us at this point but I would like to understand what exactly was the letter that Eliza mentioned that the ministry sent to you and what are Their expectations out of you so I received this letter which was saying basically we what uh Eliza already said and please correct me that they were they wanted to have the repayment back the investment that was initially done in case we were not able to solve the bad publicity issue am I right do you think yeah I think it's right um to be

more precise not to offend to Be more precise on the legal matters it was an explicit demand from the ministry of explanations um you have to understand that the game was spread in schools too so it had a huge spread worldwide not only in our in Turkish country and it's right that as Georgie said there was a demand of money to give back it was more of a threaten they were saying if you do not explain to us what The causes are we're gonna we're gonna bring on litigations in order to ask the refund the

investment that we made back and uh it is a two hundred thousand kuna pesos investment I already said that but I would just like to point out because it's a huge sum of money I understand thank you so much for that so um as I hear from you and firstly I'm so sorry that you're devastated about this I think I somehow Echo that Sentiment because I first went to you know with a company to have it be like this is a little disheartening for both of us so I feel you I hear you and I

Echo that sentiment but I think I would like to understand a little bit about the issue itself so as far as I understand the comments and the criticism started surfacing somewhere around the mid of December I want to know when was the first time you became aware that there's an issue because That's when the public got to know but when did the company Alpha Globe get to know about these problems so we don't have any specific information about uh when the technician the IT department discovered this issue so it was around the same period that

the news around the new spread I understand so have you at your end discovered anything something perhaps wrong with the central server because when I delivered the game to Alpha Globe It did not have any of the problems that it currently has so clearly something happened after we delivered the product so in the spirit of understanding what happened would you have any information that would perhaps point us to what happened so I would like at this moment thank you for the question I would like for this moment maybe ask a mediator and also point out

to YouTube the fact that um I will answer this question but if I may Before I would like to reply with some question as well since you are the um you are the experts of the artificial intelligence area so we would like to go first be sure that we're gonna answer all your questions and if it's not a problem I would like to post to you some and what do you think it is yeah I mean I think it's fine usually in mediation I wouldn't suggest you to do not answer questions but at the same

time given the expertise that they have In the technological field I understand George's concern in before trying to understand why they're saying that the product was perfect before releasing it and behind that and then I think she can answer your question as well she uh what Georgie I believe wants to say is that she doesn't want to mistaken anything given that there's not the same expertise this technological expertise on the on the software from the both Sides sure we would love to hear your questions yeah so Mr mediator eventually if you see that we are

forgetting to answer the record okay so you'd like to ask some questions at the moment because you think that's going to be a bridge to some understanding that you and you've got agreement so why don't we just be less formal and get into it okay okay so do you have since you're the experts here do you have any info specific information about the causes of the Malfunctioning that may be coming from I don't know the software so like I said the way the contract was designed was that you listed out the design the look The

feel and all we were there was to execute it you wanted the optional facial recognition feature and we put it exactly how you wanted it so far I have had a team investigating it and we have had no real cause that we could identify so to answer your question I do not know okay it came Later thank you and so given your expertise and I don't want to repeat myself it's just to being really sure because I don't have the knowledge to do that but do you think there are some other causes they may have

they may have caused this damage so there's nothing concrete with us right now we do not have anything that could specifically point to this so to answer your question no Arjun would you Like to add on to this see as I'm sorry I'm not a technical person I'm a polar person but software is quite expansive and it would not be possible in such a short time to identify the specific causes this soon at the same time of course we heard how the situation is with the ministry of environment and as a lawyer I believe in

the best shooter to understand how tough bureaucracy can be that being said while there may not be a specific Identification of what the cause or the source of the problem would be the team at GGG has identified ways to placate the problem and move forwards immediately making sure that the game going ahead is running flawlessly along with the optional feature of face recognition I really appreciate that because that would be also an interest on mine going on with the probably the second part how to fix it uh Just I just wanted to know since you're

a startup uh do you know how the software works and who takes care of it maybe we're just trying to have a big picture here of what really is your job and how your factory works I did not understand the question could you clarify the scope of that question yeah sure so I just wanted to know if you have any additional information on how the process of um Creating the software itself works and if you have some specific I don't know engineer Engineers or other professionals that they take care of it so the way it

works is that you the client tells us exactly what they want we create it for you and we deliver it to you you at your end the game is played and from our end we just make sure that the software updates keep going on so it's a value chain okay thank you thank you this way Additionally if I could just bring word off of that as I understand the GGG is merely responsible for creating the software the game runs off of central servers that are under your control which is why the question that was asked

earlier by Amari is something that is necessary to understand where the problem or the source of the problem actually lies okay I see so Ms Buzzy you did have a question yeah At the beginning yeah let's not lose that would you like to go back to it yes like my Council just pointed out we've circled back to it quite naturally so I think this is the perfect opportunity yeah um before um sorry before answering your question uh we would like to ask eliminate your caucus if it's possible you'd like to have one now yeah all

right then could I call on our session supervisor we're Going to have five minutes in caucus and will you give us a one minute warning yes thank you no wonder it's foreign thank you okay so this is confidential [Music] the door closed okay sorry okay so this is confidential how can I help what's brought you to this caucus so they're rightfully asking about the shoulder and I wanted to share with you the fact that a few days ago so After them conducting us for the central funder Center server my it team told me that an

attack and a hacker attack then it wasn't was brought against my service okay so I'm not sure we have no certainty that this could have influenced the software itself so we have no certainty that this was actually the reason why this bathroom this bag occurred the problem here is that I am allowed to share this information only when I am sure that nothing wrong Happened with their company so I have to wait before disclosing this information if that is clear to you I I think I understand this thing I think you're telling me that you

have received the information that your server was hacked yes you don't know if that happened has actually caused the malfunction my words not yours and I think you're concerned about when you might reveal that yeah at the mediation and I think that you're Concerned that you don't want to do that too soon yeah because um I'm bound not to who's binding you uh the information in the company told me not to disclose this information before I'm really sure then nothing from their side that big occur that's because in case it would it was their fault

I have certainty that uh the hacker attack was not the thing that influenced the back the software so I was wondering maybe if you could help me deliver this Information to them and maybe understand whether there is something more related to the the way in which their server Works sorry if I may suggest maybe um they have already answered many times to different questions related to what happened and they stated that they don't know maybe if the question would be made from you one last time we could have the certainty that nothing really happened And

this could help us deliver this this delicate information what do you think about it well that's a strategy that's something that I could do but you could do it too so I just wanted you to think about that you could go back and say that you wanted to be satisfied for once and for all and you'll appreciate you've asked it a few times but you just need to hear it again one of the things I'd like to ask you Though I've heard that trust is important yeah and I've also heard you've heard you both sound

and it's obviously linked to your future relationship and I've also heard you've um both say that you don't want to be engaging in a blame game yeah exactly so I wonder when you say when you said earlier that you don't you you don't want to reveal this information too early because you're concerned that it Might have been their fault I think that was the work to use so I'm I'm just asking you to think about the value of maybe putting it out there if you're here at mediation and you're saying one thing often parties to

build for trust and to keep the conversation going productively often parties have to think about if we say one thing are we doing it yeah so that's a matter for you that's a question that I think you might want to ask of Yourselves thank you for your suggestion I think it was valuable I believe Georgie if you agree we can see as we can do as the mediator suggest it you can ask them one last time and then deliver this information order to be a trusted okay yeah that's over to you and you're going to

do that for yourselves thank you you've got one minute to go oh is there anything else while we're here I think this was my main concern I asked some additional questions um because I was concerned maybe that um something in the process what went wrong or the um potentially uh some some other employees when doing the work which was not properly properly done but since I feel they are sincere um I think that I will go with your suggestion also what my counselor suggested and uh I will probably try to Uh talk with them perhaps

when you ask the question you can you know you can specify some of those little doubts and legals that you heard you've just named a few that's an entirely a matter for you but it's one of the things that you could do if you want to be specific why not use the opportunity you're here today to do that okay that's I think that's true it would be helpful also because we both are John and I have both Talked about transparency so I think this product okay so you know what you're doing okay okay [Music] okay

so thank you for having waited so I really appreciate the fact that you waited until this moment for outside and also for my response to the question so I want to explain why I waited so the Reason why I waited is because I really needed to understand what happened in the past and I just wanted to be really sure that there was no there were no problems uh with the process and no problem with maybe some additional employees doing their job not in the proper way which are we all know there are some causes that

may happen actually in the in big companies so um you asked me before Um what happened with the central server and we have no specific no specific information about anything wrong that happened with the central server itself is does this reply your first question yeah yeah go ahead and then um choice of your words just make me kind of curious you stay specific you say itself so can I get a sense of whether there's something going on yeah sure I use those words because of that so Um just two days ago um I add the

information from the I.T um the team of my company that as a knocker attack was brought against the service we have no information about the fact that this was actually the cause that affected the bug and we have no certainty about it so please feel free to ask more questions but this is actually what I can tell you right now the only thing that I know Since I've been sincere and I've also and I've been sincere because I've heard that you have replied to many questions saying that it was not actually your fault um just

wanted to understand if you have potentially any additional information to share and I don't know also how you feel about this information that I shared with you well a hacker attack that's interesting but Uh if I hear you correctly you say that you're not sure that that is the reason yes and you just suspect that is one all right well that that sort of leaves us in a position where we're still wondering but we still don't have any answers that we still sort of have something to work around with well nobody's like I said before

we're not here to point fingers we're here to find a solution so can I ask you something else or have you done Something about the hyper attack have you worked on the security measures or is that something that Still Remains unresolved in your system so it appears to us right now that there's no additional issues that will that will be caused in the future because of these hacker attack but really what we know is just that this happened and this may have succeeded and this may of course but we have no certainty uh about the

the bad itself Um okay so as I understand have you uh built any firewalls or strengthened your security to prevent this in the future or are we still working around that um this information came just two days ago so there was no time to do anything with that of all that uh it's brand new for Georgie too um and I think she wanted to tell you about it just to build trusted for the future um I see maybe do you have other questions you want to ask us um no questions per se but um if

I may suggest something um firstly of course thank you Catherine for your suggestion of organically jumping between the agenda very clearly that is moving this forward but the reason that the fact that this was only a two day old attack and you very clearly have not thought of any fire was in place folks off myosis because just a Week ago Amari was jumping up and down about new security measures that were being devised by GGG which I believe can feature into the future collaboration part um and if it is okay with you we can move

ahead and understand the situation and try to positively find solutions to our current scenario I really appreciate that because there would have been a question of mine going on because since I value your expertise and your talent Um I would have liked to know if you're able to eventually also prepare something like such a security and if you're if you're already as well I think that I will be willing to talk about how we can fix this problem okay sorry yeah if I make um I think that we have at this point maybe a joint

acknowledgment that we cannot understand now because it's of this issue maybe our both I.T Departments can work later in the next weeks and days to figure this out because it still is George's interest to have an answer for the ministry we don't we don't want an answer today but time is a bit of the essence here as well that said uh I think these are exciting news and maybe I would ask the immigrator to I don't know put a check on the point of the agendas okay we can move on okay I'm sorry did you

want to okay just before You do that can you do that when you say you'd like me to put a check on the point of the agenda because we have viscosity today it's still needed okay we discuss it in the future all right so I'll just make it very nice I haven't put on the agenda that you've talked about um in terms of supporting a future collaboration that you will both commit to investigating security um and and that you will jointly Collaborate in terms of sharing resources from your individual I.T Department sure is that right

yes okay now if I mean I'm sorry to interrupt you but you know I'm an engineer I'm a Problem Solver and I get to talk about Solutions I get a bit excited but yes about Solutions well I am so happy to tell you that my little team you know we're a startup we're so close-knit and we're always involved in what everyone's doing and They actually have a solution for us and we can actually roll it down on the 15th of February right like just the next update that's when the next update is due and we

can actually fix it it's going to cost a bit of money we have to look at the servers and you know we can't give you a quote right now because we'll have to look at the servers and figure out the security issues so perhaps we can discuss that later in a session where both our ideas teams can Perhaps sit in and see what's happening but yes I'm so happy to tell you and I'm so happy that you can tell this to your ministry that we can fix this very very soon in fact well what's the

date today on June um I'm blacking out on that um but it will be used I'm sure your social media team will have a field day on Valentine's for Valentine's Day so yes on 15th of February we'll be we'll be able to roll Down that update so you can have a fun day there we can discuss the cost later but yes coming down to the more serious discussion calm down future collaborations I hear you mention United Worlds the convention and I hear you want to be a part of it and this this little debacle made

it a little difficult but I have news for you there as well well my Engineers I'm so proud of them I keep mentioning them over and over again but they have come Up with this amazing idea where they are willing to put these enhancements in our game in happy Earth happy humankind to make it the most energy efficient game of the world that we've ever known so that's super exciting for me and well it has this feature where the player can actually track their energy usage at a given time and it's it's very exciting it's

in fact it almost sounds like science fiction to me even to me so So yes that is something that we can work on for the United world's convention how does that sound to you so thank you for sharing all these information I think I appreciate the fact that at the beginning you talk about how to fix it and I know that then you pass to the Future collaboration maybe if it's possible I would return to the fixed Point uh and I would like to ask you if you have any additional information if I'm understanding Corrective

correct it um you're gonna deliver this new product this new software in order to solve the problem with the facial recognition is it right um yeah as I understand from as much as much as I could discuss with the engineers um there could be the solution that could be rolled out on the 15th of February would not only include the problem surrounding the facial Recognition but at the same time it would also include security fixes to make sure that the server is protected from any future breaches it's multifaceted the intervention on the on the 15

yeah so it's facial recognition and security so essentially it'll prevent any such error from coming in the future at least anything that we can foresee and the fun part is we don't have to put in any effort every month we do roll out a Software update for all our apply applications and this is just a part of it so it's just the regular the user just has to go up to the App Store say update and voila it's done so it's really interesting but um and I'm excited as you are but as you imagine I

also I'm gonna report to the board and I have to have some numbers maybe some specific more series and so I wanted to know if you I think you don't have any Um I'm just asking you if you have any explanation on how your team of Engineers is going to proceed or at least if you're willing to allow probably a trial period in order to understand if everything is working um probably I don't think that would be an issue we can do it like right after this meeting I'll just give them a call yes I

think that's good news uh and sorry if I jump in but as a lawyer I think that also I have to keep an eye on guarantees um so if the trial can be something to that is doable I think it's great and eventually Arjun if this thing goes on later we can maybe discuss about legal guarantees if this software works properly or it doesn't work properly in order to uh make a future collaboration that doesn't lead to what happened until now so maybe this is something we can Discuss sure Elisa I'm very confident in what

GGG has done what Amari has done and I don't see the possibility of something like that happening in the future however this is software we are dealing with and it is much broader than what our scope of studying law can make us understand which is why it's something like the term guarantee is a word that scares the lawyer in me however of course I also have to look after the reputation of my client here However we can give assurances that aren't as heavily worded as guarantees because we are in this together it is our software

and your product and we want to give the best to the world it's a legal document you all work it out to be even sort of a rolling agreement here in relation to this I'm just mindful that what isn't clear is the cost yes okay let's do it at this point right Okay so should we just refer back to the agenda just for a moment like regroup on where you are so we seem to have talked around the past um the bug what what happened and what might be a fix we've got some and then

we've skipped down a bit to the Future collaborations and talked quite a bit about a few areas that can be improved there do you want to move into the money at that point or would you like to talk About reputation so if you don't mind this since I did bring up the future collaborations I would like to hear your thoughts on it before we go to it how does that sound to everyone bye I love it too so yeah um I'm definitely interested in the in the future collaboration I just wanted to say that uh

Catherine just said that uh we need to talk about we haven't talked About cost and uh as I said before I need to report to the board and so maybe before going on to the Future and I don't want to be to focused on business stuff but it's also what I'm here to do here so I wanted to ask you if you know um the cost the uh um the cost how much would it cost for us for us and for you to develop this and improve this software so like I mentioned earlier we will

have To figure out the cost once we look at your server you know the method of delivery because you understand that we will have to look at the bug and how it affected but uh we don't think it will cost you a big bunch and you know what since uh we don't know the cause and we're beyond that I think we'll be able to contribute to fixing it so I don't think that should be much of an issue and I think we can table that for now because I will need the support of my it

My engineers and my board to finally figure out and I think we will have to engage with your it team too to understand how the delivery model works but Arjun can you help me explain this a little better here of course an estimate we can probably round up right after the meeting and hand it over but since we are at the point of finances and costs um I do have to bring up the pending contract payments the contractual payments that are still in the pipeline Which is the 17 pesos would we be able to get

a timeline on when we'll be receiving the money because the installment was due in mid-December okay so yeah sure I I appreciate you saying from understanding correctly uh it's not something that you actually are really sure about right now so I think we can discuss it maybe later on yes thank you and for what concerns the cost so since I was sent here we're not like Really sure about what happened uh we were wondering whether we could find a more um a more creative solution so um of course also discussing about money because we understand

that also as a startup you probably will need some as every company would need some money as well and so we were wondering whether we can split eventually as you said the Reparation costs but this is gonna be discussed and then we're gonna pay you the uh 70 70k credit if I'm understanding correctly from what we discussed with the board and I think that what Georgie is trying to tell you is that since we uh I we put aside the causes of this malfunctioning I love the bag um and answering your question about the 72

the 70 000 KP that are owned by Alpha Global to your company Um what we thought about is that we could pay off of the money right now so 35 000 KP and the other Alpha after the trial of the uh software of this solution you have talked about is completely is completed does this would also work as a guarantee as I was saying before I know it's a scary word uh what do you think about what does this feel for you so you know like you said earlier every Company needs some money and we

are a startup but for me from the very first day the startup was about good relationships and good work so while yes money is a concern I am more concerned and focused about how we preserve this relationship right so sure we can look at the numbers and Arjun can talk about the numbers after I finish but I'm more interested in sort of investigating the word reparations that you use I think that that was the word and what exactly You meant by that um I think that for a reparation probably it was I'm sorry English is

not my first language so probably it was uh um a word that I wrote I used wrong okay okay but I meant the fact that you're gonna fix in the the issue as you the fashion recognition issue as you said before ah of course of course to be yes please I'm sorry for the repairs yes oh absolutely that's that's that what relieves me a bit so yeah what do You think about the numbers here I think the 35p up front and the 35 000 afterwards is the reasonable solution yeah and that would work um but

again the focus for us right now is to make sure that the update is rolled out as soon as possible and depending on the costs for the repairs themselves we can also maybe see if some of these costs would be offset where you could end up not paying us or we could end up getting less money from you just To ensure that the costs are split and we can come up with the solution at the quickest I think that sounds absolutely great and I'm really glad about your ideas and your open minding in the matter

um I would just like to uh point out that this would be amazing and it is essential for Alpha Global to link this also to the reputation so so I believe that this can all be done Contingent to restoring the reputation of the uh of the company and we heard before that you have some ideas in the matter so Georgie do you want to hear yes of course and I think that restoring the reputation and also working on some uh ideas together with their petition can lead also our talk to what you said before about

the fact that you have some great ideas also for future collaborative collaboration because I think that in our mind the reputation is Quite linked to the last point of future collaboration yes absolutely thank you so much for that interest in the offer we're so happy that the tone of this discussion is so collaborative and we're making so much Headway it's quite exciting to be here today frankly so as we've jumped up to the possibly the last agenda I would say to touch today and that's reputation perhaps the most crucial say the best for the last

I guess but no yes reputation well we are In a little bit of a pickle here because well the like I said before uh the impact of the game was intended to be widespread and well the negative criticisms are also in the General Media and it's quite a big problem to tackle but so far thank you so much for not dragging our name uh we understand that you bore the brunt and you mentioned this in the opening statement and and to me that just shows the maturity of an established Organization you know to willing to

take own up to your mistakes not winning the blame elsewhere that's we really thank you for that but like I said your reputation is my reputation and we're in this together so I am willing to do what it takes to join hands and perhaps you know fix the way our reputation should be fixed now I understand that our Market is sort of we have our individual customers and our individual players and we also have our Schools you know where the game is played and because of that we do have a wide pool that we can

possibly play around with um initially I think because we have an update ready and and we can roll it out in no time after of course you know the testing is done I think the first thing we should be doing is a joint press release to State whether and how this problem is fixed and how that was a temporary glitch keeps happening in the Tech world and you know we can just get it out of the way that this was a one-off thing and this was just teething problems and what do you think about that

I really appreciate your offer and use the word you use the sentence our success is your success the feeling is mutual it was also the spirit with which we came into this negotiation today and I agree that a joints and a joint statement to the Press would be helpful To restore the reputation and probably uh in that way we can show we can show the public that we put our our efforts together in order to solve an issue that affected the customers as well uh probably well we would need maybe in this uh joint acknowledgment

joint acknowledgment would be probably an acknowledgment of the ministry as well so probably stating that the ministry had nothing to do with the previous issue uh arose with the Software and I believe this probably is not this is not strictly linked to you but it would be for us not to in order to preserve the reputation with the ministry itself so I completely hear you when I understand that your relationship with the ministry is quite crucial to you they've invested one third of the capital so well they have to have a say and I'm completely

agreeable to that however there's one little concern that You know that sort of Echoes the ethos of my startup is that we never do anything without an intent without a message without some positive message going out and for us shaping that narrative would be very very crucial so I would like to hear your thoughts on what is the message that you would try to send across I'm happy to include the ministry in that joint press release but I would want to understand the tone of what we would like to say through that From your mouth

so in my perspective and also the perspective Almighty when we discuss about it uh The Joint statement would have been paired together with probably a launch of a social media campaign for example since we understand uh fighting climate change is an issue that concerns us both we were thinking of something that would that could probably would be appealing to the young to to young people I don't know we thought About the using of social medias um Trends are quite popular right now so using hashtags or using some special words they would they would convey a

message to kids and young people would be favorable and could have a nice impact what do you think about it well that's very exciting I'm I'm always on social media so that's that sounds fun to me perhaps we could use some filters as well some of course yes and I think uh Arjun what are your thoughts on this great idea as an avid player I'm already looking forward to the upcoming updates and I'm just sort of rewarding here this might exceed the scope of the current table but since your concerns are not only the users

and the players but also the ministry one thing that bureaucracy loves is other than pre-publicity is more bureaucracy so maybe if we can um vaseland and Kono Lantern come together and it can maybe even be shown As an international Endeavor furthering climate furthering a fight the fight against climate change and making the world Greener I believe that might also be hand in hand with the social media message that's some and I think that a lot has been said about reputation so I would kindly ask the author of the mediator to sum up just for both

sides until now just to have a clear picture I will have a go at doing that So I've got quite a list here so I think you're inviting me to go back to the beginning in terms of the proposals that you've made together yep you want me to sweep them all in um sorry can you repeat this you would like me to group all of the proposals yes thank you and talk to you yeah thank you that will be useful thank you so much all right so this is in the order in which they evolved

in the conversation so Um the first issue that you went to um in in terms of an agreement for a Way Forward was in relation to The Heading of future collaboration and you talked about um putting your heads together for to collaborate in terms of security and establishing a process that would mean that there is going to be no more hacking and that your it departments might collaborate to Do that so that was the first thing so a focus on security together um this and also in relation to Future collaboration at that you also talked

about the United World convention and making some additions to the game which was specific to energy usage um and kind of I think your words were a Sci-Fi thing so they were the two of the things that you addressed in relation to Future collaboration together then there was quite an extensive commitments Around solution there's going to be on the 15th of February Valentine's Day um a fix rolled out for when I'm not very technical so bear with me but a fix is going a solution is going to be rolled out and that is one that

is going to be targeting facial recognition and security and you have agreed that there will be a trial period and that was one of the special things to address concerns that you might have had about Guaranteeing performance going forward and the thing that hasn't been agreed is actually because you can't at this point um agree the cost of that fix however you have estimated that there will be a sense of the cost a quote or something um coming soon yeah but I did hear that there was a commitment made and I just want to check

that that was confirmed that the cost would be shared yes we're Willing to do that okay all right good I just want to check that I've got that properly all right so that was in relation to um the solution so then in relation to financials another um a gender item you talked about um the 70 000 installment being paid in this in the following way 35 000 would be paid up front and the rest would be paid after the trial the Completion of the trial period or the expiration of the trial period in relation to

the bug fix is that right yes yes so that's that and then in relation to financials you have talked sorry reputation um you you have talked about um the fact that your reputation whatever you do has to Target Two markets both individuals and schools um so you said you think you should do a joint test for other joint press release Um that was designed to sort of normalize briefly what had happened um and one that um might address the fact that this was a one-off teething problem that you'd overcome and most definitely that the ministry

was not involved in any way and that the tone the general tone of this press release and and um would be one of pursuing sustainable and fighting climate climate change themes and that you would undertake some Sort of I think you said a Facebook campaign that would Target and engage young people and then I think you quickly said a whole lot of apps and things that were creatively lost on the mediator so I will have to get you to say what they were can you do that yeah sure it was basically our social media campaign

and we can choose in the future the probably next meeting the social media that we're gonna use and here also from our marketing team if it's fine for You yes in fact we can sit and come up with more you know creative buzzwords and filters and ideas I think we can do that later exactly thank you mediator for this uh uh nice sum up of what happened here and I also um your summary has also made me think about the fact that uh you talked about the competition before which is also a great interest of

ours yes and so we wanted to understand what is your idea about it because Thank you because our interest would be to participate in in a later on this year so I did mention it but I feel like Arjun will probably be more precise and lawyerly than techie so why don't you very briefly as far as I've understood it would help make not only not only save more energy when playing the game it would also allow the users to track all the energy that they've used so far thus collaborating the promotion of making the Earth

Greener better of Course this is what the update is intended to roll out however if you could tell us more about the competition itself what are the specifications you are looking for and what exactly you would want to submit maybe we can collaborate and further fine tune the updates and changes to help you stand a better chance at the competition thank you so um well we know at this at this moment is That we want to participate hopefully with the game we created together so this is an exciting news and seeing that we could probably

fix it uh before the 15th of February I think that uh the uh this will be in time for the competition itself which with of which we don't we do not have the specific date at this moment but I feel that probably in the next weeks it's going to come out so we're gonna we can email each other and have a further conversation about it Well just a small clarification sure because I feel like it got lost somewhere the update that we're rolling on the 15th is different from this enhancement that we have in the

works this enhancement is not the regular update this is something that the creative set of Engineers have come up with they were just brainstorming and they decided that this could be something that we can do and perhaps we were doing this way before this bug even Came into the picture so this is not a part of the regular feature but if you wish for it we can work on this perhaps that clears it up yeah I I believe the reason that Amari is stressing on this is because this is something that a lot of Manpower

and research has gone into and this is something that will of course require a certain amount of costs to come into the company that is why this is something that we wish to flag out but again like I said costs are not The elephant in the room us a relationship is so that's just the lawyer talking here in fact if you're getting started this early in the year for the concentration quite confident we will win and I also hope we'll be invited for the celebratory drinks afterwards okay so at this point I think that this

is exciting news I wish to go back to those money you have talked about but maybe since the time is running up We Could decide for an agenda to discuss about in the next meeting if you read with it I think that would be a great idea off the top of my head firstly we would have to discuss the costs which we've sort of left right now because like I said I'm not really sure in our it departments would have to collaborate on that secondly we can speak about the future collaboration and the various ideas

that we have for you you know work out the details of the social media Campaign sit and write down the press release what else Arjun what else can we talk about so briefly that was costs and future collaboration I guess in future collaboration specifically we can discuss the modifications that we can possibly do to make the game even more eco-friendly I think a good start and to make sure that I'm advocating for George's interest that is my role today in here uh within the cost It will be crucial in the next meeting to talk about

this refunds that customers are asking for and probably also a little bit about the compensation that I mentioned at the very beginning but it is something that we can live for this eventual next meeting um I'm happy that today uh talking and having this conversation with your company a future collaboration was brought up I think that this satisfies Also George's interests here and um up my ads I would also think that's a good point to of discussion in the next meeting could be this competition to know more about the proposal this announcement as you said

that is on the table uh the related costs and yeah I think that's great maybe the mediator can help us clarifying okay A little clearer this future agenda okay so in relation to the Future agenda Um I just want to ask this this I've heard the time was really important earlier today so when do you want to agree um to have this next meeting when will you be ready when will you have the data the information that you need in relation to cost when will you practically be able to have this conversation I think as

soon as our ID teams are able to meet and discuss we're ready on our side what about you exactly As soon as also you have the opportunity to talk with your team for the releasing of the 15 that would work for us yes so as soon as possible should work I think we should have an email exchange right after this meeting and decide to date okay so subject to your availability of course thank you that's nice to know um so uh so the interesting so there's going to be a commitment that we will come back

to but have a further meeting and that will be agreed by way of email Between you for it to happen as soon as possible I'm assuming after the bug fix on the 15th of February and in that discussion you will talk about costs your IIT departments will have in the meantime got together to talk about that so that's something I suppose that saying you need to organize as well prior to the meeting you also talked about in that meeting that you will want to table the complaints that you've been receiving and the impact of those

Complaints on your property exactly um and also you also use the word compensation you said you were still looking to understand that you might say some acknowledgment of the loss that you have suffered in relation to that so those things are going to be parked off into the next meeting and also that you will be discussing the competition and your participation in that um and where that will I think include The new fixed solution and some potentially some of the new enhancements in relation to I think it was energy music yes just as a clarification

the fixed distribution is separate we are definitely rolling that out by the 15th yeah yeah so you're right well done so but that's going to be ready for the cost perhaps this enhancement will be on board by then thank you thank you for that correction all right is there Anything else you would like to discuss George in the next meeting or does it cover you all I think it covers all uh probably we can consider an NDA going on for what concerned the reputation in order not to disclose like technicalities that have been have been

aroused during uh this relationship because of the service and what happened with the process of the creation of the software but apart from that I think that I think That's a taught from a CEO and this is something that arjan and I can work on what other do you think we can also think yeah all of that sounds brilliant and I think that is something that we want to get to right off the bat after this um just thank you very much thank you very much Catherine for being a brilliant mediator and allowing us to

get through this deviation session um uh very well and of course you as Well thank you Georgie for ensuring that we were able to find at least the beginning of solutions going forward and I'll just leave the table to MRE now if she wants to say anything well I'm very very happy with the head with happy that we're going with a collaborative mindset and we've figured out a bunch of solutions and we're looking towards a great future together and we're we're going to do great stuff in this in this field and thank you so Much

for coming here and you know appreciating our requests and making the most out of it and I'm really glad we could be here thank you so much Catherine it's been my pleasure I appreciate your uh I appreciate your feelings and those are mutual and I hope we can collaborate for Facebook for people in the future thank you okay well it looks like you have an agreement and some next steps organized and so I'm going to leave it to you you're going to Communicate with each other in relation to that next station yes foreign thank you

very much and congrats it was a brilliant session now in order for the judges to score may I ask everyone to leave the room for 50 minutes thank you thank you [Music]