welcome to the rich dad real estate show where we talk about the good news and bad news real estate hosted by yours truly jiren sustar and today I'm here with a very special guest Grace gof I hope I pronounced that correctly we'll find out here in a second grace she's a real estate investor she's an author of the self-managing landlord and she's a co-founder of the women invest in Real Estate Network I guess um why are they crush it uh her and ailia her partner they're great people and they're absolutely crushing it with that community and she's a systems expert and so I'm super excited to talk to Grace in her free time she likes hiking and hanging out in a hammock dude I haven't hung out in a hammock in forever I'm scared of getting a hammock cuz I don't diet well enough and I'm not sure there's a hammock that can hold me Grace thanks for being on the show today thank you and yes you pronounced it right and I know that there is a hammock out there for you my hammock is my best friend hey if we can go on a hammock search for extra large males that would be Fant fantastic cuz I'm going to need one but I'm super stoked to to chat with you today we met I guess it was Orlando at a conference a couple years back and uh we hit it off you guys are awesome the the vibe between me yourself your partner um in your business y you're just amazing people and I know you're crushing it in your community and so this is really cool that a couple years later here we are on the Rich Dad podcast talking about real estate and how you have had so much success and so I'm excited to dive in I'll let you start from you know the beginning but I think it's cool now because tell me if I'm wrong you don't live anywhere near where you invest anymore uh you've moved to the Wild Wild West out in Arizona but I think you still invest maybe towards the Midwest so we'll get there but take us back to how this entire Journey started yeah I was in college helping my boyfriend at the time now fiance paint a house and I thought to myself I could maybe do this one day he was flipping a house with his Grandpa and then like many I had read Rich Dad Poor Dad I had listened to Bigger Pockets podcasts and I thought to myself I could do this and one thing about me and Amelia who you mentioned is like we're go go go we're 100 miles an hour I'm going to read it I'm going to figure it out and I'm going to do it probably to a detriment and So Co started doing DIY investing quickly realized I could figure out creative financing Burrs private money commercial lending and I just told myself I'm never going to stop buying and when I started I bought in my backyard which was Cedar Rapids Iowa I never knew that you could buy anywhere else I didn't even know the term out of state investing and after 2 to three years of doing DIY investing and really running our business like a mom and pop and running around like a chicken with my head cut off we ended up moving to Tucson Arizona didn't know anybody there had never been there but my fiance got a good job there so so we said screw it let's go and I figured out how to be an out ofate investor and how to run my business like a business build a team and all that great stuff that is insane I don't know maybe you told me this and I just forgot but the fact that you were just painting your boyfriend's house and you're like holy crap I'm going to be an investor and then you went and did it that's absolutely insane who does that I know even better is I wrote a book for Bigger Pockets and I have spoken at the Bigger Pockets conference which is so crazy cuz that was the podcast I listened to where I was just like huh I could do that I do that me you know that brings me to a good point because I preach this Non-Stop and I know you would agree that if you can make a very complex topic seem normal you can have success and so for me I remember when I was starting out in the real estate game I was surrounded or I went and surrounded myself through networking with people who were already where I was wanting to go and so yes it's good because you learned from them so you learned a ton listen to the podcast all that good stuff but I think even equal to the education that you get is it becomes normal and when something becomes normal then it's easy to take action on it and you know just growing up in in small town South Carolina it was it was almost like Untouchable to be able to get in real estate you know what I'm saying like it was like almost like a myth like it was only for rich people or something and and so to make it feel normal allowed me to feel like that barrier was knocked down and it was just like hopping on a bike and riding a bike and when you can get to that place mentally all the nuts and bolts aside it really does open up a lot of doors yeah you can't operate your business in a silo I still struggle being from Small Town Iowa which was probably very similar to where you grew up where rich was making 100K a year like that was that was and and so to be in real estate and see so many other forms of wealth and to know that you know everybody is kind of making it up and you just have to be around people who know how to do it and they will inspire you and teach you and you'll learn from them is huge and that's why I always tell people if you're listening go be a part of a local Meetup or an online community or listen to more podcasts and normalize it normalize it normalize it nobody's got it figured out that's the one thing I've learned U like you look at any investor or any big name in their business I mean we could talk you know I don't necessarily want to throw out names but think about the biggest names that you know their business they don't have everything dialed in they do not have it all figured out that is one thing I've learned by being able to to step into these rooms with some larger folks and so there I say that to say there's never going to be a time where you Grace or I or any listener is going to have it all figured out you you have to just jump in and go and surround yourself with those people who are also doing it so you have that Community you feel lifted up you feel like it's normal and when the hard times come that's okay because you've got people to lean on and learn from so you said you started out doing DIY dive into that what does that mean what that look like um from the get-go I think it's easier to start in real estate DIY because you need less Capital but it's harder to scale because you can't get out of the dayto day whereas if you start not DIY or out of state it's so much harder to do that first deal but once you do you've got everything locked in and you can keep scaling but my fiance is the guy that can do literally anything he has renovated whole houses top to bottom to the studs but and that's great for your first couple of deals and I was the world's worst contractor at his side I can paint I can pull out screws I can do demo I could landscape a little bit but I was not good at anything else and we literally had to move 2,000 Mi away from our portfolio to get out of DIY cuz I was cleaning I was the manager I was doing everything and he was doing the Contracting and when I finally moved I knew it was going to force me to figure out how to do it not being there and that's what made me absolutely explode my business I started flipping from 1500 miles away um not ever having seen a lot of the properties wire exploded I started a few other businesses and it was all because I figured out how to Outsource and delegate and a lot of us fall into the Trap of nobody can do it like I can and I always tell people don't be so narcissistic a lot of people can do it like you can you just have to figure out how to give them Direction how to hire and how to systemize a lot of people can do it better than you can in certain areas better not just that's the one thing I found is even in any not just my real estate business like that's been that was easy for me to delegate Contracting cuz I hated it so much but in my other businesses it's like yeah when I put the right person in the right role they are better than I am in that position 99% of the time how many deals do you think you lost out on by focusing so much on Contracting and and working personally on the houses that you were buying so many in 2020 2021 we were doing one maybe two deals at a time and while that other deal was sitting cuz you can only be in one place at once it was so stressful in 2024 even just a few months ago I had six or seven deals going at once six or seven Renovations happening that is insane and I want to talk about that after the break on how you do things out of state how you're able to scale how you keep able to keep that many projects going on once and you know our our story somewhat similar I never did a ton of the Contracting but I was definitely more Hands-On and I would show up and I would see what's going on and uh it does it really limits what you can do and I think it's okay okay to start you know I'm not sitting here telling somebody not to be super involved when you're first starting I think there can be some benefits to it because you learn a lot especially if you're not well versed in project management um even if you're not doing the project just showing up and being there is going to be super helpful but if you are going to scale you're going to have to back off like I I bought 19 units my second year of investing and if IID had to done all the rehab and been in all of them there would been no way I've got six flips going on right now buying rentals and so there um there is opportunity to be able to do this without having to be Hands-On which is very good news to people who live in areas to where they can't buy in those particular areas and you and I both know that there are many locations throughout the country or world that don't lend themselves to certain types of investing and so let's say you live in a higher price Market well maybe you can go flip there maybe you can do Airbnb but you can't buy long-term rentals well you either have to look in the mirror and say well I guess I'm not going to buy long-term rentals or you say I'm going to figure out how I can do this without being local and I'm telling you Grace is going to break it down here in a little bit and from my personal experience you 100% Can the only reason I go look at properties now is because I need content for YouTube or Instagram that's pretty much the only reason I go to my properties now other than that I I wouldn't go because I don't need to because we bu out build out the systems over time so I want to talk about the specifics of your first couple deals um you know you guys were painting your fiance's house then you're like I'm going to be an investor what did you do for that first deal so after he flipped a house with his grandpa our first deal together was a DIY six-month gut we it was the winner of Iowa we're like we're bored we've got the energy we've got the time let's find the crappiest house we can and fix it up it was supposed to be 3 months and like $23,000 and both the timeline in the budget doubled as it does and after that first one it was miserable I hated it I hated diying I was there every day before work I worked remotely I'd go at like 6:00 a. m. work for a couple hours go home to work and then go back later that day and my fiance did double that but somehow at the end of the day when sweep refi it had a perfect bur had a ton of equity um I think we were all in for like 130 it appraised for 180 rented for 1,500 we were like huh somehow I want to do that again but let me figure out how to do a little bit less Contracting and so even though it was miserable it was just so eye openening to see what what your own hands created in terms of equity and an asset and it was a really beautiful place that a tenant could call home and that was the aha moment yeah let's break this down because this is my favorite strategy this is how I scale my portfolio it's how I still buy real estate today and not every deal are you able to do this but every deal that I can I do we're doing one literally right now with a duplex that I have under contract for 87,000 okay it's going to be about $112,000 worth of work call it 15 for easy math we're going to be all in at 100 it's going to uh appraise for 150 to 160 and then it's going to rent for you know 15,600 a month um and so the power of that to the listeners is she bought a property well I don't know if you remember the purchase price it doesn't really matter because she was all in with purchase and Rehab she was all in at $130,000 so the purchase price price plus the rehab call she's all in at 130 so she had done what we call forced appreciation which is just a fancy word for saying she took something ugly she made it pretty and now it's worth way more so she bought it fixed it up over whatever five six months now it was worth 180 so worth 180 she's got 130 in it she went to a bank and she did what's called a cash out refinance what the bank give you 80% of the new appraise value 75% we did 70 just cuz we didn't need the whole 80 need the whole thing so a lot of times the bank on that new appraised value will loan you anywhere from 70 to 80% so Grayson them did 70% which is $126,000 right around 130k which was the amount that they had in the bank wrote them a check for that new for that uh 70% of that apprais value so 126,000 they went put it in their bank account so they got all of their money back that they put into the deal and now they had a bank loan for 126k with the bank and now the tenants are paying off that debt that's absolutely amazing I bet you I bet you guys were just like flabbergasted when you actually finished the project yeah I mean I was 23 years old I was like this is absolutely nuts nobody I know has a home much less a rental property so we're like let's do it again and we did right away how do we do this over and over I remember the first one I B I like I had to put 20% down okay I didn't do any fancy strategies and um you know come to find out later that's not the best way to do it it's not how I buy now the majority of the time but I just remember like that first deal I walked around like I was softed dude my chest was B out I like this is amazing and then I remember my first bur deal which was your first ever deal and I had never felt anything like it because I went and Acquired and you went and acquired an appreciating asset and you had no or very little Capital left in the deal and now you own this very expensive asset it's going up in value over time and it's paying you back like how many people if you really think about it how many people in life actually buy things that pay them back statistically only 1% of people to people do because only 1% of people are smart enough to say Let Me Go deploy capital in assets that are actually going to pay me back the rest of the 99 just go buy crap where your money disappears and the crazy thing is we all have access to go buy assets that will pay us back and do things like you did but it just takes a little discipline and it takes a little courage and to see you guys do that and then how it's unfolded over time which is going to break down after the break I am super Stoke for you we'll be right back with grace are you worried about your financial Security in these unprecedented times if you are the next minute could profoundly impact your financial security imagine waking up to find the economy as plunged and your portfolio has plummeted 30 to 45% while banks are in terminal holding your money hostage while waiting for FDC intervention where would you turn for many this may sound like fiction but it's a stark reality for those that have money on the line recently America awok both the NASDAQ and the Dow plummeting over 1,100 Points each and triggering a frenzy of sell-offs History shows us how 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zw to download it right now I believe 2025 is going to be one of the best years for real estate investing that we've seen in recent history and I do not want you to miss out plus your future self is counting on you to make good decisions today so that they can live a great life later so go to your first property. or click the link down in the show notes to grab your free ebook today welcome back to the richdad real estate show I'm here with Grace GCL we were talking about her first deal how she absolutely crushed it with the burst strategy but I forgot to ask you where how in the world did you find the deal like how how'd you get a hold of it everybody wonders like how do I find these deals break it down for him this is a good story we were driving around every if you've probably heard the term driving for dollars and I saw up a rent sign in front of a really crappy house and I had seen that for rent sign many times so I knew it was still vacant and I called the number right then and there I'm standing outside the house and I realized the the person who answers has no clue what I'm talking about so I take a wild Shot in the Dark I'm like are you an investor he's like yes I'm like do you have a lot of properties he said yes and then for some crazy reason I decided to say even though I had never bought anything in my life I'm an investor too why don't you send me a list of all of your properties and send me your crappiest ones and we want to walk them so I had the courage to you know kind of bluff my way through this and he sent me a spreadsheet of like 35 properties starred the ones that he thought were the wor first and then we I said I want to walk the properties that are the most disgusting that smell bad cuz I know that's where you know people say it smells like money I know that's where I can force the most appreciation and we' walked like two or three offered on it I was so scared to negotiate like $2,500 off the inspection report which is so funny looking back on it and we signed it I bought it off Market no realer and we got to work that is amazing literally saw a for ramp sign and called the investor and asked how have you found most of your properties off Market through referral leads and Word of Mouth I offer $1,000 referrals and I have a Facebook page where people follow me and I've had contractors tenants escro attorneys uh friends random people I've never met my chiropractor I've paid all those types of people out referrals because they get me in contact with somebody who's selling off Market CU they know I'll pay them isn't that crazy I preach because a lot of people do like a lot of marketing which I do some marketing but for the majority of my investing career it's just come through what you talked about what I would say organic word of mouth or either calling somebody or sending a mailer um because if you get you can create an army of people who will bring you deals and people get excited about it isn't it wild like I think everybody wants to be in real estate but they're not sure oh how do I get in so this is your ticket to getting them in and you're paying them ,000 bugs like what I say you need to turn your audience and not like you're an influencer or anything but like you have Facebook friends I'm sure you need to turn your audience into walking talking Billboards for your business and it needs to be a dollar amount the referral needs to be a dollar amount that will make a ex-boyfriend call it can't be hundred bucks nobody's calling you from Child your childhood friend's mom is not calling you for $100 it needs to be in smalltown Iowa it's a th000 on the coast it might need to be 3,000 or 4,000 you need to turn everybody into a walking talking billboard for your business I love that is so funny we're exboyfriend or girlfriend we call that is that is amazing I have found you know so the most of my deals have come from number one other investors doing exactly what you did I didn't call from a for rent sign but I I got a hold of other investors and bought off their portfolio and then a lot of mine have come from uh folks who it was like estate sales so either a spouse had just passed away or both of the parents have passed away and the children's have inherited it you know a lot of people want to talk about tax cells and foreclosures and this and that and there you there's ways to make money in all different ways but if I people were to say what's the two biggest ways you've done it and I would add number three Zillow just literally looking online to see what's for sale those are probably the three biggest ways that I have gotten deals and that doesn't take a lot of a lot of equity or a lot of time Equity uh or sweat Equity compared to to what some of these um you know marketing methods take so that is really really cool how' y'all fund it did you guys fund it with your own capital Did you raise money how'd you go about that I've raised a lot of private money again because people are watching they're seeing what you're up to and after that first Burr that we talked about my mom made me have an open house to show like family and friends what we did and I was so mortified I was like really Mom I this is so embarrassing well what do you know somebody came to my open house who ended up lending me $120,000 jeez that's a game CH if you're scared of social media do open houses you don't have to post everything online but do open houses for your projects to show your local community family friends neighbors investors Bankers attorneys what you're up to and get them bought into your vision that is genius I really really love that because once you earn that trust any any business success is built on trust and you're literally saying hey here's my my prod my product come check it out I got nothing to hide who doesn't want to be a part of this yeah I have another friend who show throw do an open house but also bring food for all the contractors who worked on it so now she's got her contract labor bought into her vision cuz she's taking care of them she's saying bring your families I'm feeding you dinner tonight I'm saying thank you and just doing a little bit of above and beyond so that those contractors keep coming back to her and working with her granted she does like 40 flips a year yeah but she didn't do 40 flips a year she didn't always do 40 flips a year you build a good business by going the extra mile just the little things sending out thank you cards I've been known speaking of food I'll cook a ribey for the for the workers sometimes we just all grill out it'll be late at night they're there working and it's like hey I'm going to appreciate you because you can't do it without them it's it's a team that you got to have in place but I love that how how you spread the news and you show people the product and I'll tell you one private lender one person who says you know what I want to be on your team I'll fund deals can completely change your life you don't have to have multiple ones Chad Carson is a gentleman both of both of us know and I was talking to Chad one time he said dude we got one guy who lent US money for however many deal I mean a lot of deals he said and we've made him a lot of money and he has helped change our lives one person and you got that one person to give you 120k you probably got more lenders now but even that one can work wonders in changing your entire future because capital I think the deals are the harder thing to come by the I really do and then once you have Capital then it's just hey let me go find is going to be a little bit harder but let me go find those deals and you know you can buy anything that's a pretty freeing place to be that's what I thought when I first started I remember I looked at my at Brand my fiance and I said let's find deals and let's not let the money stop us and that's why I figured out creative financing private money um burs commercial lending I figured out all the things cuz I knew if I could find the deals the money would come and that's something that we teach to our wire Community as well is find the good deal and the money will come because a lot of people have money a lot of people have money not everybody has a deal that is fantastic advice reminds me of the movie filed of dreams if you build it they will come if you bring the deals there's a way to make money on a deal even if you don't buy money right away guess what you can go wholesale that deal and make money I mean there's so many different ways to make money when you have deals I love that that is that is gold right there Grace thanks for sharing so you've uh how many deals have you done now in in all probably about 30 so she's done 30 deals started doing D DIY at the beginning moved to Tucson Arizona now you've done 30 deals what was that transition like from all right I'm very hands- on I'm local to now I live all the way on the other side of the country and you started doing more deals while you were farther away how did you do that so I've done about 15 flips and I have 27 units so I guess more than 30 but when I moved I started by hiring a 10 hours a week hourly person to help me with all the things that I couldn't do cuz I wasn't there then actually hired that person before I moved cuz I was getting so bus what did they do like what kind of stuff were they doing that person's role was property manager so it was a lot of listing and leasing stuff okay then once I moved to Arizona she ended up parting ways with me because she had a really great full-time job and just she was not going to be working as a property management manager forever even though she was incredible I decided I'm going to replace her with a full-time person W2 full-time employ that's a project and property manager and I'm going to start flipping to make this person pay for themselves I think I can do six flips at $30,000 or whatever $20,000 I'm in a really small area so you're not making a ton of money off of these flips and that's what I did he worked with me for a year and a half um up until about a couple of months ago because he got another great offer in for a really big developer in Utah decided to go do that which was awesome but I turned his i instead of thinking okay I'm going to make this much money less his saly I thought I'm going to invest this salary I'm paying him to get for exit with these flips that I'm making and that was a huge game changer that was the first time I'm like running a team I have an employee like I have to do kpis and team meetings and it was it was lot that is intense but amazing and I think it was Genius of you to keep boots on the ground locally who could go and they could run and they could project manage what have you found from you know let's talk a project manag because when it comes to finding deals guys you can find deals no matter where you're at uh and I don't want to be flipping about that but you could sit in California and find deals in South Carolina uh easier in my opinion than you can manage those deals once you get them so what are things that you did I know you had the employee even if you had to train him or there things that you were doing outside that allowed you to be so far away by these flips and then go through the project of let's just say rehab and then we can talk Property Management too without you being there so starting with an incredible scope of work that we would review that was very very detail you know it's four or five pages long everything and when they would walk the property I had this really thorough template property walkr template where he's putting the year of every single system you know the HVAC the AC the water heater when was electrical done how old's the roof what exactly is the driveway parking situation how many bedrooms like so so so detailed with a ton of pictures and videos so I can get all the information that I need then we build the scope of work I would use monday. com to create a project timeline with and he was also the GC so we're doing all subs which is a lot the same guy who was on your team he was a GC I mean not licensed but yeah but he was he was running your yeah yeah and I just running yeah disclaimer you can do this if you don't have somebody living full or working full-time for you just want to put that out there there are people that you can find his boots on the ground oh yeah who will go and do this for you as well but yeah keep going especially if you're again in a community or a local Meetup where you can find a great boots on the ground somebody or like a new agent who's not making a ton of money it's a great person to have be your project manager just know you get what you pay for and you can't you know just hire somebody and expect them to be really good at it you got to train them but we would use Monday for the timeline who the contractor was and then just a ton of trial and error I started doing just one project at a time we did it start to finish in like 60 I think it was 73 days close to close so Less Than 3 months and I was like okay and I made like 22,000 and I didn't do anything I never saw the property I I was never there and so I was like all right we got this now let's do three projects at once so we did three projects at once then we kept growing it was pretty hectic and looking back now I realized I had a really tough time with quality control because I didn't I almost needed another person to Quality Control him and I realized I was doing a little bit of polishing turds and now I'm moving forward definitely going to be moving into doing really really great Renovations that I can be really really proud of um and so yeah there was so much trial and trial and error and I learned a ton about managing a team long distance I love that I um I think there's a lot of challenges to people ask me what is the hardest part about real estate investing number one is just getting started most people never get started then once you get started it's uh managing projects I think that is the hardest part of the game um for whatever reason we could sit here and talk about the reasons why but it's one of those things to where anything in life worth having does not come easy and the hardest part of this game is going to be how do I get that pro project or that property from looking ugly to now it's being pretty in as fast amount of time with quality work that's going to be the hardest part of this game and you can either say I'm too scared I don't want to be a part of it it's fine you never going to reap the benefits of real estate or you say I'm going to figure this thing out whether you're doing it locally or from out of state and it's worth figuring out I find that people get into trouble on flips the second they stop being proactive or Hands-On if you have a flip you have to be so Hands-On you have to have such a thumb on the pulse of what you're spending how long it's been who's doing what and I've done this before I've gone hands off and let kind of the project manage itself and it never turns out well so you need to be tracking the current budget versus the projected budget you need to always have an estimated date of completion whenever you're talking to a contractor the second you stop asking for estimated dates of completion the second it's going to go off the rails yeah you really have to almost feel like you're micromanaging um and just stay on top of it which is for me is very hard because I am not necessarily a detail oriented person I'm a big Vision let's move on to the next deal now I'm smart enough now where I have team team members who literally do all I mean I don't when I after I close a deal I I hardly see it at all now and they're very very high level and they manage the project manag and so on and so forth but when you're getting started you're you're you're spot on and I think one of the biggest things that we've done with our students who are getting started with this and especially ones doing it out of state is you mentioned it number one is we're having multiple contractors walk through if you don't have that one person on your team we're getting multiple quotes then we're putting scope of works together based on that and the inspection report then we're having a contract sign then we're giving them a timeline and then we're having a weekly check-in so every Friday they're getting a video walk through if they're not local of where they are at the project what's been purchased they're getting receipts and one thing that I will leave you guys with just as a tip to keep you from getting screwed is do not pay large lump sums to contractors there are bad people out there who will take your money and they will run the way we do it is we pay for material often times our contractors or Subs will actually call somebody from our team from Lowe's or Home Depot wherever we'll pay for it with our card and then they just charge us labor at the end of every week and if I could just give you guys just something to take to just make this impr print in your brain never forget it do not pay large lump sums don't give them 50 % deposit they're going to run off on you yeah I agree and it's very scary so you guys started wire right women investing in real estate women invest in real estate and um y'all have a lot of fun when I see you guys at conferences yall have a great group what is it how can ladies get involved in it if they're interested yeah we've got a few different things going but our U mission statement is to empower our women to become W2 optional they're real estate investing so we can create lifestyle design we always say we're not here to own to own 100 units we're here so that we can have freedom whatever that may be and we have a community membership we do Retreats we just got home a couple days ago from our ninth retreat in Phoenix Arizona it's 3 to 4 days with 20 women in a giant Airbnb having an absolute blast in talking business we also have bookkeeping services that's new um I have made a lot of bookkeeping mistakes so much so that I was like I need to start my own bookkeeping service so we hired a full-time bookkeeper and now do investor books through wire which is really fun and yeah we have lots of different meetups and other fun things that's awesome where can they find you at where's the best place for them to get a hold of you women invest inreal estate.
com or on Instagram wire.
