Al Di Meola on Art, Rhythm & Reinventing Fusion

when I was in Phoenix last month at the George Benson breezing with the Stars event I saw my old friend ald Miola and got a chance to sit down with him again and have a chat here's my interview L how's it going we're going great great to see you you too you too so what have you been working on lately the latest thing is uh the electric band we've done a few tours already going back to the the early albums wanted to kind of remind people you know what that was like back there in the

' 70s which you know they were my most popular records I didn't think I'd ever go back to it but I I I thought let's do it you know one more time you know and it's completely different in contrast to uh the brand new music you know that I've been working on the last four years which finally came out in the summer um a record called 24 was supposed to be 2024 as the year was completed so I started in 2020 and uh had the record company uh agreed to me doing a solo record just

you know without overdubs But as time went on you know I got the got the itch to add stuff sure especially percussion I love playing percussion I have of it still kind of on the light side some of it solo and then the other half is quite involved you know with other instrumentation so we talked about this earlier uh on stage but um about your Arrangements that you do and yeah and um kind of talk about how you come up with these and and how you develop your Arrangements you know it just starts with with

it could start with something simple [Music] like and I just like that [Music] sound I like this [Music] now now you got to get clever right so I'm thinking [Music] beautiful [Music] and all time it's against the cord note you [Music] know except this eye bar here [Music] and this is where I combin something I developed more so during this this period which was pick and and like a hybrid thing [Music] the [Music] for [Music] [Applause] [Music] this is my commercial [Music] piece love it [Music] beautiful [Music] and that's half beautiful of part one okay

Al your harmonic concept where does this come from well I have influences like like we all have it's very contrapuntal it's modern classical it's beautiful you have Jazz you know but the harmony is way more advanced than than most Jazz Harmony if you know who my influences are and then who I was kind of you know channeling MH in a way while I was writing like guys like toer GTI yeah uh very much so maybe a little PIAA you know yeah when I listen to their work I I hear those kinds of interesting harmonies you

know and I I still aspire to to write like that yeah you know so this is my my attempt at uh doing that kind of thing I just was not thinking at all about um uh radio or sales or anything like that like you know I was just thinking about art making a record that's aesthetically pleasing to me yeah and that's what the whole record turned out to be you know so I have no high expectations but I I like where my writing is gone and that's taken uh you know a front and center uh

position to to even my uh the days of of all of that you know the flash but then again you know we started with with you know when I started with Chikara it was all it wasn't only about uh technical proficiency of the three fusion bands it was the most compositional in a way weather report was conceptually very cool yeah and mation was a blowing band yeah in comparison yeah but return to Vero was a composition band absolutely you know when somebody would ever talk about the the amount of Technique we were displaying yeah it

was all with in you know the framework of of these great compositions of chick so he was a big influence of course you know especially my earlier records as time went on this originally was uh recorded on an Ovation full body uh in a robotto fashion mhm it's hard enough for people if you're playing it in time to grasp all of it yeah cuz there's so much to get so I decided to re-record it with a nylon in time yeah with a Groove kind of like what we call a Chaka or tombal yeah and it

was played by my friend who just you just plays Rhythm for yeah he did it with his hands I did it with a pck but But but so it gives it a different sound when you're playing against that you then for me it's it's it's natural to change rhythms it's like even with a a standard piece of uh classical music uh that I'm reading at the at at the moment I can syncopate and change those Rhythm I don't it doesn't mean like if it's there I have to play what's there yeah anybody has a Latin

sensibility we're feeling the upbeat a lot of the times we're playing against the clav without that clav moving an Iota hair or if you wanted to you make it intentional you know I'd like to take a second to talk to you about this channel of the people that regularly watch my channel 58% are actually not subscribed so I encourage you to hit the Subscribe button now this will help me to get even more of my dream guests and continue to grow my channel thank you Al is can people learn to groove you can work on

your time but Groove is different than time you know your son has an extraordinary ability right I think my daughter my young daughter has this rhythmic ability mhm so some of it it's like you're born with or a great deal of it in in in your case with your son and I think I had that Rhythm thing a long time ago yes uh and I did spend a lot of years uh by myself getting into New York City and hanging out in salsa clubs I I remember climbing up the stairs even though a lot of

people were dancing and the big band was going whether it was Tito point orever and I just took it all in and I spent a lot of years um which I shouldn't have done but now that I look back I'm glad I did it on just desktops you know tapping rhythms you know and I could do it on my guitar too you know but I did a lot of it with with my foot always concentrating on the 44 with that never going out of time so basically what I've said in in a lot of um

uh demonstrations of this kind of thing uh or clinics I've done is uh really focus on the foot it becomes very important I sometimes I say the most important because whatever syncopations you're playing on the upper half of your body cannot influence that cordino down there so it's like two separate parts right yeah and for most guitar players it's it's not achievable yeah I mean they could try to see if it's achievable you have to you have to try it yeah but it can be uh a thing that just might not be able to get

so you you wind up I would always recommend then if you have to metronome it or you know the a lot of guys are playing with drummers so there's your time when I look at social media there's people that play everything with drum machines instead of playing in ensembles where there's the swing that happens the natural right human element how important is that that I haven't played a lot with rhym machines I have nothing against it or anything like that but you know just things got further and as far as Rhythm things got further let's

say along by the guys that I was fortunate enough to play with like chick in the beginning he a master he was a master at Rhythm you know my first love anyway is drums and percussion uh we got along in that regard we didn't do enough and then I then I went later years when I played with Gonzalo it was like like off the charts what's magical is when you have the ability to feel the cord note like my foot's still going it's like hey I got to talk to it sometime stop you can stop

it just keeps going yeah so you can have these giant pauses in the music but that's where the drama is the pause because if the guys don't have that sensibility oh the time where is where's the time no no if you have that sensibility you can have these giant p poses in between you know [Music] yeah you know what I mean just little examples like that and uh so if I took a piece that's not mine like a pisola thing that was written [Music] beautiful so Aster was uh like a for me my when I

met him it was a major change in my my uh my writing and my playing in the sense that you know he had a lot of beautiful melody in his music but he didn't have a lot of rhythm going on in it because Argentina even though it's next to Brazil is completely different you know so uh he he gave me his Blessing personally we can be very good friends and the next record had he not uh had his stroke would was going to be with me and him uh but he did say to me and

he wrote to me he used to write me letters and I wrote back that's the only time I wrote letters at that age and he goes dear Alberto I want to hear you do something special with my music do something unique you know so I got his Blessing because you know the Die Hard Tangos you know can't change anything it's like the flamco guys that that from the old school gave Paco a very hard time yeah he was old they gave death threats so he had to leave Argentina mhm and uh move to Paris study

with NAD ban guy you know and he wanted to become like a you know a composer like in a in a in the framework of somebody like B and it was naughty who says no no way your soul is Tangled don't you ever lose that in the music because of her we have the you know that modern Tango which was beautiful you know so what you know I took that and just I read it and it was straight like here's my foot [Music] [Music] oo [Music] o [Music] yeah that kind of thing amazing so it

changes the whole feel so when you have that you can apply percussion you you know it's it's like this Paco had that too Paco had a lot of Swing mhm you know he had a lot of Rhythm and he wasn't a traditional completely traditional guy he he liked to you know [Music] you know the [Music] oh you know it's just it's just we can go on forever you know so he he had that we had that together MH when John was soloing in the middle he was like he had stereo totally in sync you know

counter rhythms but like in that world you know what I mean yeah so he he was lucky yeah we got along really well that we we understood that that kind of uh PL GL the clave language even though he comes from the flo school I don't I come from a a kind of a Latin you know a Latin influence I can listen to that all day yeah and then if you were to do Renditions of Bach like I we were discussing before it's just doesn't work it's corny and you have to have the instinct which

is experience time to know what works and what could be corny never should have be corny corny is the worst you know corny is the worst the worst that you yeah we don't want to talk about it Al when you're uh when you're creating these these pieces or when you're improvising like I never feel like you have any patterns or anything like that it just feels so tons of patterns it seem everything seems so spontanous I feel like I don't have enough vocabulary I mean if we could live three four lifetimes there was just so

much more to learn you know what I mean yeah I don't realize cuz I'm in the moment so of course I don't know you know what it's like when you're improvising you're you don't remember what you did half half of it or most of it your voice of what you're playing here is so unique to you it's kind of your compositional style and your linear style and everything doesn't sound like anyone it really doesn't Stanley Clark said the same thing I can never you know I with Al I can never figure out who he listened

to right and and I I I justed he said a few times and I started really thinking about that I said yeah you can't pin me to Hendrix or and and I one time I sat backstage uh uh at the BBC and uh George Martin was uh presenting a Lifetime Achievement Award which like I was like almost in tears I was like so moved that he even knew who I was right and I got to talking with him and uh you know he asked me who I listened to when I grew up I said well

the Beetles is Geck no he didn't see any of the Beatles In what I do I said man that the whole generation of us right love the Beatles still loved the be what you did was amazing he was trying to tell me yeah they're okay I me what what and I at one point I was like George you know I wanted to shake them I said are you kidding what is your favorite Beatles Arrangement that you do or what's your what's your favorite Beatles tune to play well I did a little bit of strawberry last

night um and I do a little bit of like a Norwegian which but let me let me play this other thing this this is a piece that I wrote and it was originally [Music] written and yeah pretty but then my instincts kick in I said [Music] [Music] w [Music] [Applause] [Music] so those little spaces oh only really work if if the if the time you don't lose the time so if you're playing with a any kind of guy that just doesn't have that it's it ruins the hypnosis of the moment yeah you know so the

hypnosis is when you have those spaces and then you come in on an offbeat like a up hour and a half later it's what I've been doing so long that I just don't realize that and that's why you can play solo like this you're one of the very few people that can play solo guitar L like that and play linear things and keep the groove and keep the people feeling the time cuz your time sense is so strong I mean I can count on one hand people that can can play solo guitar like that and

improvise and do yeah not even not even Ralph or or well gmati has that sensibility especially if we we were doing something together I can imagine he's he's got a rhythmic sense is unbelievable but both of those guys are are so amazing because their piano playing is as good as their guitar playing and they're composing yes absolutely I look up to them I look up the pazol I still look up the chick and I listen to The Beatles on a daily basis just because they're in my car on Sirius FM you know my two favorite

pieces a you know Strawberry Fields and I am the warus oh my God but I did a little bit of a Norwegian because he original version of these are all John Lennon songs too yeah there you go again I mean now and I love Paul I love Paul too but every time I think of of of Beatles song Story Fields John lenon song Norwegian Wood John Len when I get when I get into that then I start going okay Penning Lane was so great oh yeah yeah yeah okay and then you know you can go

down a list for no one you know oh yeah you know what I'm talking about thank God for the both of them you know they made our lives as rich as as it was you know that what would what would life had been without them you know yeah so when you know when analyzing Paul's stuff I now realize why you can add all that production on there because a lot of the tunes will quarter note piano parts right Penny Lane right yeah hey don't make it and when you have that now it's beautiful yeah Beautiful

cuz that's not me right because if I did that without words and lyrics it would be very corny and I'm I'm known for doing my rhythm thing yeah but it allowed them to add on all this yeah Supreme production yeah those beautiful Arrangements the classical instruments and all so you know and I analyze a lot of what he did he did a lot very simplistic Rhythm yeah changes were nice very nice yeah but you know that was this his thing the thing about Lenin's the is all the unusual chord progressions that he would come up

with John yeah you know Norwegian Wood is the that most beautiful modal Melody the world knows it [Music] [Music] oo woo [Music] you know so I had to add my own parts to it because the original as beautiful as it is we never thought it was a short piece but it was a minute and 59 seconds yeah so I said as an instrumental I got to I got to add some of my things so like what would they have done if they were an instrumental band how would they elongate this piece so oh beautiful [Music]

something like that like that so great like like that L this that kept straight like [Music] then I go ooh [Music] nice that's beautiful beautiful and it just goes on and on there's a lot of written parts that go off over there but always returns back to what we know because this is so [Music] beautiful always with the time yeah it's in that three quarter time 68 all the drones and the distances that you're using are so beautiful The Haunting sound because and and also you know it's it's it's pick pressure it's uh the articulations

are not all even yeah every note that you play is a different volume thanks for noticing it's every not only every note that that then your articulations you use so many muted notes and and you create so many rhythms on top of this steady flow I'm like this uh frustrated drummer percussionist you know that's I hear things like that yeah yeah my sensibilities go that direction so and what do you practice do you ever just practice anything or everything that I write is a practice or do you just is is that your practice is actually

because you write things that you want to work on yeah or uh it could be anything out of a book M I'd love to read reading is the most common thing uh that I can do when there's when there's a lot of stress reading or writing music not tab right L you never look at your neck when you're when you're playing I I I don't have to you just never do like when you're reading you never look down ever no matter how complex the line is well I didn't realize that sometimes I have to look

sometimes it depends there's a piece of my don't try to even read it because it's I have the I switched where the beginning is at the bottom yeah yeah yeah and to rewrite it's a lot of work but [Music] oo [Music] let this this chord is for you this one I have to read [Music] what [Music] beautiful so that one remained a solo piece on on the record uh called for only you because it was really not meant to play with a heart with a heart 44 there's no guitarist that sounds like you thank God

yes you know yeah I mean because a lot of young guitarists are not ever focused on Rhythm right they're focused on the coolness of the speed and the lines that's very important very good but if there's any kind of Latin sensibilities that the the heavy metal guys don't they don't go for the Latin thing at all because because heavy metal is all is this and any kind of Latin thing if you have a Latin sensibility you're feeling this right like if my foot's going you can hear [Laughter] that and the whole idea of that little

that little exercise which that could be is so that the foot doesn't move you know [Music] beautiful anyway unbelievable now in Brazil I I hired a s school going back at least to 1981 I had some gigs there solo gigs and I just asked the promoter to you know find me some good percussions to play with but then I had a an even better idea to hire a whole summer school and there must have been about 20 percussionists okay sitting in the middle they were surrounding me in Emi studio in Rio de Janeiro and I

did this kind of uh [Music] Ain this up all back it was a huge sound surrounding me you know you know and I was [Music] sometimes I have to switch feet [Music] both so that was a lot of fun doing that amazing you know amazing when you go back and listen to some of your early records yeah what surprises you and what what uh I I get I get what it is now yeah of what they found to be uh interesting in what I was doing I really get it more now mhm than then I

was when you're in the moment you know I don't even think the Beatles knew how great they were when they were in their 20s right yeah I mean I I made some good choices with my Rhythm Section having Steve Gad and Anthony Jackson primarily yeah on those first four or five albums Yan Hammer Barry Mouse you know it and a host of different Lenny white played on some tracks as well so I had I always had a great Ensemble and um what's the difference in that is that they those kind of guys um they're great

readers so I didn't have more than a day with them but any of those records that's amaz they read it all down as even when I wrote drum trouts uh not not just bass and keyboard and guitar and uh Steve always said to me yeah you know i' rather have the base part and he would he would he would take the four or five pages or whatever and he would just tape them under the symbols you know on the symbol stands and uh that was it I didn't have them for that long of a time

because they're that good of a reader but they brought something to the table they they made what I wrote even better what they added in yeah you know and there is that that can happen with players of that level and then there's times when I I really don't mind saying you know this is really what I I hear and it might be on Orthodox to start um uh a pattern on the end of two or something or three but I'm hearing things that that uh cuz I'm listen I'm hearing the whole picture of the music

and you know I will never have a percussions in a drummer play the same thing so so it becomes uh and that's the way I would I would mix as well have the drums on one side kind of like Ringo on one side and you know the cello over there and right it's beautiful I mean I I've always used that George Martin School of mixing like when I hear the Beatles yeah do that kind of panning it it just sounds like so normal and then I've tried to do that it's like whoa you know drums

over here it's because you are just used to that and you don't think about it when you try and do it like me when I try to do that with with a different thing it's like oh that's that's a really a bold choice right to do that and you just kind of accepted that the the drums would be in one speaker and the you know real [Music] fascinating I would put a rhythm like that on one side and [Music] then on the other side you know maybe 3:00 9:00 yeah okay and I know we don't

listen to stereos as much but boy it's really cool cool to go back to listening to stereo you know I listen to stereos every day Al yeah you know we have a an ald M signature turntable now that this German company called clear audio has put out high quality high end I'll put it in the description below yeah the the body of the of the photograph is in the shape of Les Paul the body of Le Paul so you you got a choice of black or you know a wood grain you know and it just

finally came I got it on Christmas Eve so Al the next time that we get together I want to get you to play some electric guitar too yeah I I brought it with me but we'll we'll do it yeah next time we I want you to come to my studio a is a whole different thing that happens the electric guitar to me is like a voice like a great singer yeah you know and the things that you can do phrasing wise is uh completely different than acoustic this is my drum set at the same time

the electric are not you can't really do the same it's not as effective right so it's two different animals and right now I've got both groups going to get the electric one doing the early music and some of the new music too uh and I and I keep my acoustic uh Trio or quartet going with a different completely different format you know Al it's always a pleasure to hang with you yeah and hear you play thank you so much pleasure man I thank you so much for bringing to the whole musical community your your knowledge

and wisdom you're the chief Professor thank you of the guitar you know awesome oh yeah thanks L someday I'm going to get you to play with me oh man I'm retired that's the one thing we haven't heard from Rick no no I get back into playing here one one of these days yeah that'd be great man thanks thanks for having me thank you