Mario Sanchez on Being a Norteño Shot Caller in California's Most Notorious Prisons (Full Interview)

All right, here we go. Today we have former Norteno shot collar Mario Sanchez, who served time in some of California's most notorious prisons, including San Quinton, Pelican Bay. At one point, Mario decided to lead the gang and turn his life around. And today he joins us to tell a story. Mario Sanchez, welcome to Vlad TV. >> Thank you for having me. >> Well, you have a very interesting story, so I want to start in the very beginning. So, you're born in San Francisco, Richmond district. Yeah, born and raised San Francisco. Um, grew up in the

Richmond District, which is on the opposite side of Golden Gate Park. You have the Richmond on one side, the Sunset on the other. So, I grew up in the Richmond District neighborhood. >> Yeah. I'm from the Bay myself. Okay. >> Yeah. I grew up in Sonteo, then I went To school Berkeley, stayed in Oakland. So, >> I used to have a spot in Foster City. >> Oh, yeah. Foster City years later. >> Exactly. Exactly. But San Francisco really kind of seemed like the epicenter of gang culture. Um, I mean, >> in terms of like Mexican

gangs, >> Yeah. I mean, I think I honestly I think maybe San Jose has that has a has a oneup. I think San Jose going back in The 80s and 90s, they have a a really big um gang culture. I think San Francisco too definitely had their time like in the '9s. There's a lot >> Mission Street and all that. >> Yeah. So, they they had a lot of stuff going on like in the mid '90s, late 90s. But I think, you know, San Jose probably has has a pretty big car in prison. A lot

of representation. >> Okay. So, your parents were from Mexico, >> correct? Yeah. My dad's from uh Mexico City and my mom's from Durango. >> Okay. And did they immigrate over to America? >> Yeah. Uh my parents came to um I think initially first they came to like New Mexico and Texas and they came to California like in the '60s and um initially um they're in San Jose actually in like the early 60s. So, I have four sisters and I have two brothers >> and um let me see, four of my sisters And my older brother,

excuse me, three of my sisters and my older brother were all born in San Jose and then they moved to San Francisco and then that's where um one of my sisters, myself and my little brother were born. >> Okay. So, up until high school, were you generally a good kid or, you know, did you get into some trouble? >> Yeah, you know what? Um, I think I was a bad kid and I think I I got in a lot of trouble at school, but one of the things That kind of kept me out of trouble

for a very long time was sports. >> Um, I was an athlete. So, we we had a my dad was actually our coach >> and my dad had a like a junior soccer team in in in San Francisco and I mean I started playing when I was like six all the way up until I was about 15. >> Um, Agila Soccer Club in uh San Francisco and I mean we traveled all over the state. um all these tournaments. Um pretty high level junior Soccer. I mean, some of the guys I played with um got D1

rides. One of the guys I played with um played for the US national team years later. So, we played with a lot of um you know, really talented young guys. But it's around the time that um I quit playing soccer that I started getting into trouble. >> Okay. What age was that about? >> Um about 15. >> Okay. What started happen first? just getting in a lot of trouble at school, Going out, partying, getting into a lot of like street fights, house party fights, stuff like that. I mean, we're talking about San Francisco like in

the mid to late 80s. So, um I was just really going to like a lot of parties, dances, and we were always like the guys that I was hanging out with, we were always going out and getting in fights. Okay. So, you graduated high school. >> Mhm. >> And by age 20, this is around 1992, That's when the crime started to escalate. >> Correct. >> Okay. You actually went on a home invasion spree. >> Correct. >> All right. Talk about your first home invasion. >> Yeah. So, um I mean, we were I was about 19

years old. It was about June of 92. Um I had two crime partners. Um they were both Asian guys that I knew from Like high school and growing up. And um I think the three of us just as like youth, we were kind of lost and um we were looking at other ways to to make money and we came up with this, you know, looking back now, very crazy ideas to start doing these home invasion robberies. So, um I got a gun from another friend. I had a 380. Um my one friend, we would we

would basically I think it was in the Sunset District. Um, we seen a guy with like his garage open And we just pulled up on him. You know, he wasn't paying attention to us and um, his garage was open and we crept up on him. My friend crept up on him first cuz he looks a little bit more unassuming and um, pushed him into the garage, closed the door, put the gun on him, took him upstairs. um his son was in the bathroom, so we had a account for him and um grab him, put him

to the side, and then my third partner would basically tie everybody up While my my one friend would be ransacking the house, and I would just be watching the guys with the gun on me. Well, I went through a home invasion at one point. It wasn't a robbery. It was over a girl. But, you know, I've told the story before. where a guy jumped in through the window, attacked me, and I walked out of that room eventually thinking I had killed him. And in my mind, I'm thinking, you just invaded my home or the home

I was staying at at the Time. I don't have any sort of remorse as to what I'm going to do to you at this point. So, I'm sure you're realizing that you're going into someone's home. That could be the last thing you ever do. >> I mean, I think look, obviously now looking back, right? You know, you reflect and you look back at all the stuff you did, right? I look back on those years like I didn't even have a brain like the the [ __ ] that I was Doing. You know what I mean?

>> Um but yeah, obviously going I could have I could have ran up in the wrong house. I could have got blasted real easy. Yeah. >> Or I could >> and they would have been totally justified. >> Yeah. Or I would have blasted somebody too, >> right? >> So it could have gone both ways. Looking Back on it, obviously like I said, um like talking to one of my lawyers, I'm like, I swear I didn't have a brain back in those days. You know what I mean? But um yeah, I mean I had somebody had

every right to blast me in in what I was doing. >> Now you guys were actually targeting Asian neighborhoods, >> correct? >> And this kind of reminded me uh there's a song by YG called Meet the Flockers. And flocking is a slang for robbing houses. >> I mean, this song caused all types of uproar because it starts off saying, "First you find a house and you scope it out. Find a Chinese neighborhood cuz they don't believe in bank accounts." >> That's true. >> That's true. >> That's true. my two crime partners are Asian and we

specifically kind of targeted those communities because one They were Asian and I think another Asian would look at another Asian and didn't think they would maybe maybe run up on them like that. Um but also two during those early 90s in San Francisco it was a really big thing in the Asian community. There was a lot of home invasion robberies going on during those years >> right the Joe Boys and the Watching were kind of big gangs. They were they were you know kind of like in the 80s but in The '9s like you know

some new other gangs popped popped up. They had like the Americanb born Chinese and then they had like the Chinese that were actually from China. So uh a really interesting dynamic amongst them as well. >> Now you're actually pistol whipping people >> during the invasions. How many people did you pistol whip? >> Two or three. >> Okay. Describe that. Um, I mean, when You're running up in somebody's house, obviously most people are going to fight back, right? Or at least try to fight back or put up some type of um um, you know, challenge. So,

you know, when you have a gun and you grab somebody with one hand and put them on the ground and they're they're probably nervous and they're scared and they're not um they're they're not trying to like um do what you're telling them to do. You got to get their attention, right? So I did That on a couple of occasions. >> Okay. Were there any shots fired at any point during home invasions? >> Never. >> Never. Okay. But then there was a final robbery that you did and things went wrong. >> Correct. So the the last

robbery that we did and we got caught. Um you know, we went up in there and the guy just really put up a struggle. Um you know, we were in there longer than we wanted to be and So we're just like, you know what, let's get out of here. Um, at the end of the day, even though I had a gun, I wasn't trying to like kill anybody. I wasn't really trying to harm anybody. We were in there doing what we were doing. We were in and out typically in like three to five minutes. But,

um, you know, at the end of the day, I wasn't really trying to like kill somebody or anything like that. You know what I mean? Like, I was coherent to that. >> I mean, up to this point, have you ever shot your gun or gotten shot at? >> No. >> Never. >> No. >> Okay. So, this home invasion goes wrong. You guys run out without grabbing anything and then behind the scenes things start to happen specifically with your dad. >> Correct. >> So describe what happens next. >> Yeah. So um the dynamic with my family

was kind of screwed up already. Um my dad was on uh probation for domestic violence with my mom. So it it was already like a fractured dynamic. And um you know I'm young. I'm flashing jewelry and stuff like that to my sister. one of my sisters, she goes back to my dad and she's like, you know, I think Mario's up to stuff. He's doing something. He's not telling me what he's doing. And so my dad, I wasn't even on speaking terms With my dad. Um he went back and told his probation officer that his son

um my son might be, you know, doing things and keep an eye on him. Literally told his probation officer on me because I seen the paperwork years, you know, down the road. I saw the paperwork. And um so when we did that last robbery and I came home, we came home, my friends dropped me off. I wasn't even inside my house for less than like a minute or two before there was a knock on the door and Um me not understanding the law correctly at that time. I opened the door, it was a cop. He

put the gun on me, put me on the ground, pulled me out the house and um the whole block where I lived on fourth a was completely blocked off with like six, seven cop cars. Back then they had patty wagons and it was just a crazy scene and that's when we got caught. That's when I got caught. >> Well, right. They found a gun on you. >> Yeah. >> And also addresses of places that you were robbing. >> Correct. I had we had like addresses lined up of like stuff we were going to do. >>

Oh, planned robbery. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Was there addresses of the houses you already robbed? >> Uh, probably one of the ones that we had Just did, but I I literally had like a piece of paper in my pocket with like addresses on it. >> Okay. So, now you get arrested. You're what, 20 years old? >> Um 19 turning 20 years old. >> 19 turning 20. You had a 47 count indictment. >> Yeah. So we were barely in the in the county jail for like a couple of weeks and they hit us

with a 47count indictment literally within like two Weeks because they had so much information on us and then also too they put us through a lineup and I guess some people pointed us out in the lineups. >> Were you wearing masks during these? we were wearing masks, but at the same time in in some cases maybe um somebody might have caught a glimpse of us or even cuz they tell you to even talk in the lineup. They'll say say something and obviously in the middle of a robber you're yelling at somebody, you're Shouting at somebody,

they're going to remember your voice and so even in the lineup they ask you to like say a few words and that's another way people can pick you out. Okay. So you have a 47count indictment and each robbery included multiple charges of burglary, assault, kidnapping, false imprisonment. >> Correct. >> So at that point, initially, how much time were you facing? >> Um well, the first deal they offered us Many, many months later, cuz we're going to court, waving time, going to court, waving time. Um the first deal they offered us was like 25 years. >>

25 years. >> Yeah, that's a deal, right? I was 20 years old. And um it's because there were so many charges, right? And you know, kidnap, kidnap actually carries a L, >> right? I was going to say that almost sounds light. You throw kidnapping in False imprisonment. That's like 10 years, too, right? >> So, we waved a lot of time. And by the time we actually accepted a deal, it went from like 25 down to 15. And the last one they offered me was 10 years, 4 months. And if I didn't take that, I I

would have to go to trial. And I went if I went to trial, we would have we would have got washed. >> Did you have a criminal record at all at that point? No, I didn't. >> You had a clean record. That I'm sure helped you. >> Yeah. >> What did your codefendants get? >> Um, so they got a little bit less time. They both got like eight years. And it's because I took the gun charge. I had I had the gun. So they they um gave me a first-degree robbery which was like 6 years

and then they um gave me a gun charge 4 years 4 months and then everything else they just ran Concurrent. >> Okay. Sitting in jail, how did you feel? you know, did you think that you were there because your dad essentially snitched on you? >> Um, I think looking back on it, yeah, you know, I, you know, it kind of put the blame on my dad, but obviously I was the one going out doing crazy stuff, you know what I mean? So, um, I mean, I was still very young, 19, 20 years old. Um, the

county jail in San Francisco was, Um, you know, there's a lot of action going on with, you know, getting in fights and doing stuff. So, not really spending a lot of time reflecting on, you know, whose fault it was, but just bottom line, um, I had to I had to make the best of where I was at now. Okay. So, you're in county jail awaiting, you know, to either plead or go to trial. Now, you go in completely unaffiliated, >> correct? >> Right. Although you grew up in Northern California and you get to jail and

there's a bunch of Nortenos. >> Correct. How did you become part of that? >> Um, I mean, it's just kind of like a right of passage. I mean, the way you look at it, right, it's like they got the blacks, they got the whites, they got the others, and then they have the Mexicans and the border brothers, right? But the Mexicans could be like the North Daniels, right? So, um, literally if you're not a border brother and you're, you know, Chico or Puerto Rican or whatever, >> what is a border brother? Um, basically like somebody

from Mexico, born in they call back in those days they used to call them border brothers. Oh, okay. Where they were from Mexico. So they a lot of them back in those days didn't speak any Spanish. But in those days that's when they were all selling dope In the in the tenderloin back in those years. Right. So there was a lot of border brothers in the county jail during those years because there's a lot of dope going through the city during those years and they're all getting busted and they're in the county jail. >> Okay.

So, you're around all these various Mexicans in the county jail. What led up to you actually joining? >> I mean, I'm I'm looking for the people that kind of speak English like me, that Look like me, cuz the border brothers obviously they're from Mexico. So, um you know, I'm looking for the guys I kind of gravitate to the guys that look like me, talk like me, and you know, some of these guys already been to prison, and then they start schooling me down a little bit about like this is how it is in here, you

know? So that's that's how that came to. >> Okay. So you jumped in? >> No. No, not in the county jail. You just You kind of just kind of like a ride of passage. You you just start kind of hanging out with them. >> Okay. So now you're officially a neno. You take your plea deal. 10 years 4 months, right? >> Correct. >> And you get transferred to San Quinton. >> Yeah. >> Now, how different is San Quinton from County Jail in San Francisco? Well, I mean, it's San Quinton's funny, right? Cuz you, you know,

you're from the Bay. It's like on this amazing piece of real estate right there on the bay, right? >> So, when you pull up, you see the San Quinton sign. Um, it's intimidating. I was a young guy and it's just huge. It's a it's a huge huge piece of real estate, you know what I mean? And, um, in in every prison that you go through initially, you go through what's called RNR, receiving and releasing. And um you know, you got to go in there, get Processed, and you know, you get in there processed. Now you're

just like a number. Like you're really it's like it's a it's an assembly line. They're just bringing people in, you know, and um it was just huge and and kind of intimidating for me since I was kind of young. It was all new to me. >> Okay. Now, how long did you stay in San Quinton until you get transferred to uh Santella? >> Um I was only in Quinton for about a Month. Um it's just back then it was just a reception center. Mhm. >> So, um, basically you go there, they basically put you in

an orientation, they give you your points, you know, you get X amount of points based on what kind of case you had, what kind of charges you had, how much time you have, and then once they figure that out, you're either going to be like a level one, two, three, or four. Um, I was a level three initially when I came in. And so, um, I was hoping to stay local, but during those years, they were building prisons all over the state. If you remember the Pete Wilson years when Pete Wilson was governor, >> he

was very, very hard on crime and he was building prisons everywhere. And so, um, yeah, they sent me way down south to Sentinel. Um, >> San Diego pretty much, right? >> No, it's basically the Mexican border. >> Yeah. Like right there, like the Mexican Border, but but on the desert side. On the desert side, like I think Yuma, Arizona is right there. And then Imperial County in California is right there. So you're way down there, >> right? So you can't get any more Sereno than Santanel Prison cuz it's completely down south. >> Well, I mean

we >> any more down south you'll be in Mexico. >> I mean we were we were the first bus from Quinton to get sent down there. So There was like you know there was I think Wasco was another reception center kind of like in in the Fresno area. So there might be some guys from like Tallery County or Fresno to get sent to Sentinel. But I know when I was in Quinton, we were the first bus from Quinton that went down there. >> What was the ratio of Nortanos versus Serenos? >> I mean, when I

walked down the yard, I could tell it was like from a me from The Mexican standpoint, I could tell there were like only Sudanos on the yard, right? Um to me, it seemed like there was a hundred. There might have been 50, but bottom line, they outnumbered us greatly, you know. >> Okay. So, what do you do next? So when you pull up, once again, you go through RNR. Each prison you go to, you go through RNR. They put you in an orientation section for a few days so they figure out who you are and

then They'll move you to your to your normal block or unit, whatever. And so, um, I had a Sy, he's from Sacramento, and he was an older guy, you know, he's been in prison a bunch of times and he was like, you know, we need to get some pieces. We need to go out to the yard, make a move, and get out of here. We're not going to stay here, you know. So, from a strategic standpoint, the the thing is to go out to the yard, um, rush somebody, hit somebody, start a melee, Whatever. That's

going to get us in trouble. That's going to get us sent to the hole and hopefully transfer to another prison because bottom line, we don't want to be here. >> Do you ever have situations where you're so badly outnumbered that people just change gangs? Can you become So, that's not a possibility. You can't entertain you and become a sereno just because hey, it's just better on this side cuz it's safer. No, >> you got you got you got two choices. It's either you're going to you're going to lock it up or you're going to go

rush somebody. Those are your two choices. Or they're or they're and you got you got to get off before they get you. That's the main thing, too. >> Okay. So, what do you do? >> So, um we were me and this guy Wedto, we were in uh in our cell. He told me, "You know what? We need to get some pieces." We talked to some guys that we saw on The yard crew. There was maybe about 10, 12, maybe 15 max guys that were from co Northern California, but uh like half of them were from

Fresno, so we didn't really associate with them too much. Um so we got a couple uh welding rods from somebody that was on the yard crew. Um big big long pieces of steel, like you know, we could have turned them into really nice knives, right? And so the plan was to get these, go back to our cell, make knives, come out to the yard, And and just rush rush some people. That was the plan. And that strategically was going to get us out of there, you know. Okay. >> So that was the plan. Uh we

got the we got the steel to get back to the cell. We started sharpening and and getting to work, but then um it was right before chow time in the evening. Um and the water goes off in the entire um the entire building. And so at that time like 30 40 50 cos are coming into the Building. They're going to start doing a shakedown where they're basically shaking down all the cells. We were literally in the first cell um on the left hand side on the bottom tier. So when that water went off um we're

basically stuck with these pieces or or steel in our hands. We try to tuck them away, hide them really quick. I mean, we had just pulled up, so we had nothing in our cell but our our mattresses and and and nothing else, right? Um, so we Couldn't tuck them anywhere. We put them like in a little lunch box. Um, when they pulled us out of the cell to do the search, um, the cos found um the the steel in in the in the lunch box and they immediately cuffed us up and they took us to

the hole and we got basically um, you know, sent to the hole for having contraband that could have been a weapon. Okay. Up to that point, have you ever stabbed somebody? >> Uh, no. >> Okay. >> So, you get caught with knives and you get transferred to Corker. >> So, um, I went So, I went to the hole for about 3 months. They give you in prison, they can give you what's called a DA referral, district attorney referral. So, they can still prosecute you um and catch other charges and give you more time if if

you did something really bad or they they find something On you. Anyway, they they the DA didn't pick it up, but um at that point, they gave me what's called a 10-month shoe term. Um and they send you to another prison, Corkran Corkran shoe, which is basically the shoe is like they call it the security housing unit, right? It's um it's a it's its own prison within the prison and everybody's in there for, you know, getting in trouble, um stabbings, weapons, whatever it may be. Um you know, it's it's not even the hole. It's Like

another um level to the hole where you're in there for a reason and you and you got a certain amount of time you got to stay in there. >> Okay. But eventually you get transferred to another prison >> from Corkran. >> Okay. Oh, that's in Corkran. >> Yeah, in Corkran, correct? >> Got it. Okay. So at Corkran you had gladiator fights. >> Yeah, that was that was that was the Times 9394 and and anybody can Google like um Corkran shoe gladiator fights. They even made a movie about it years later. Um but it's funny I

saw the movie and I was like that was there. You know what I mean? And um anyway 93 94 the Corkran shoe gladiator fights. Um, basically you have the worst of the worst in the shoe, right? So all the different black gangs, you know, Bloods, Crips, 415s, BGF, whatever. Um, all the different white gangs, um, um, Nazi Low Riders, skin heads, um, Aryan Brotherhood, and then, you know, the different Sudeno gangs, Mexican mafia, SSG, Sudenos, and then the Northos. You got the NF structure and Northos. So imagine all those people being in one place, right?

And so, and the yards are uh the yards are integrated. So, as soon as you go out to yard, you just have to fight each other immediately. That's just the way it is. Um and so, um when I when I first pulled up there, um the war Was going on between the North Daniels and the Sudanos and the whites. And then the blacks were getting off with the whites and the um Sudananiels. >> Okay. And the guards would actually put rival gang members in the yards and just watch them fight and then shoot them at

some point. >> The the the the gun tower cos would literally get cuz they have a mic right before they uh let out the yard and they'll they'd be like, "Turn on your Lights if you want to, you know, go to the yard." They would literally say, "Let's get ready to rumble." Like like the the boxing dude, "Let's get ready to rumble." Like they would literally do that cuz they knew as soon as they let us out, it was on. So that's that's how um it was literally when I was there, >> right? Cuz from

' 89 to 94, seven inmates were shot to death during these fights and a bunch of others were actually injured >> and I guess some of the guards actually blew the whistle on these other cos and there's a whole FBI investigation and eight officers were indicted >> and they beat it. >> And they all beat it. >> Yeah, it was Yeah. I I remember like um I actually remember one of the uh the cos that killed somebody. I think his last name was Betha. Um he was a big tall over overweight black um co and

he and he smoked somebody and he was still Working like normally they would suspend you or something. This guy was still working in the gun tower after you smoked somebody. So it was very very crooked in those years. There was like no accountability at all. But um yeah, they would they would just throw us out to the yard and go at it. Okay. Now, you're a neno, but describe what the western familia is. >> Um, it's basically I would like if we talking like business from a business Sense, right? It's like the parent company, right?

>> And then you have, uh, the northern structure which is right below them uh, which gave birth to them and then the norths would be more like the foot soldiers. >> Okay. So, above you was the northern structure. >> Correct. >> And above them was the western familia. >> Correct. during those years. Correct. >> Who was a leader in the Western Familiar during that time? >> Um, >> was there an actual single leader? >> You know, I don't I don't want to I don't like to drop names, but there was somebody that I heard about

up at Pelican Bay when I got up to Pelican Bay later. Um, you know, a lot of these guys, I don't know if they're still active or or what, but there is definitely a main dude up in Pelican Bay Calling the shots for everybody. >> It seems like the Mexican gangs have a different structure than like the black gangs, you know? It seems like there really is an actual hierarchy and everyone has to follow the hierarchy and so forth where it seems like the crips and the bloods are more like clicks, you know. >> Well,

I think the >> there's no one leader of the crips. There's no one leader of the bloods. There might be a leader of the rolling 60s or whoever, but there's not one overall [ __ ] or blood leader. Whereas the Mexican mafia and the, you know, the western familia, there really is leaders and a hierarchy. >> Yeah. I mean, they're they're they're organizations, you know, they're called criminal organizations, whatever you want to call it, but that's how they're looked upon. And uh yeah, they're very very very organized, very strategic. And Whereas, you know, the street

gangs are there's so many different street gangs. So that street gang doesn't adhere to what that street gang is doing and vice versa. And you know, out here in LA, there's street gangs everywhere. >> Right. So at that point, the Nenos were allied with the Crips, the Bloods, and the 415s. >> Correct. >> And the Serenos were allied with the skin heads and the Nazi low riders, the White gangs. >> Correct. >> Okay. Now, how many fights were you involved with during that time at that prison? >> So, I was at Corkran for right about

10 months. I got into about four or five fights and literally um the very first fight I got into um I got cleared. So during that time cuz they had the FBI investigation going on, right? So most most of the yards were integrated but They were also trying to segregate some yards too to kind of keep the heat off of the staff. But um when I went to classification, they cleared me for integrated yard. So that means I'm going to go to the yard with whites and sudananiels. And so, um, when I got back, when

I moved to another block and I got into my cell, um, my my SE right away was like, "Did they clear you for integrated yard?" And I'm like, "Yeah." He said, "All right, well, tomorrow as Soon as we go out, we got to rush our neighbors as soon as they let us out." So, the very first yard I went to, um, my neighbors, um, we were in the first cell in the top tier. And, um, we they sent us out to the yard. These are very, very small yards that only fit like maybe 10 or

20 people. And as soon as these two white guys came out, we rushed them and got into our first fist fight. Um, they shot the block gun at us. Um, and yeah, that was my introduction to Integrated Yard. >> Okay. So, at one point you got paired up with this guy named Rabbit, >> correct? That was my Si at that time. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> And you guys would actually fight together. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you you're always with your SE, right? you go to the yard with your silly. So, um you

know, we go out and the next the as soon As we go out to the yard, there's either there's somebody already out there waiting for us or we're the first first ones out there. And then when somebody comes out, usually two people, it's it's literally a twoon two and you just go at it. >> Well, at one point, Rabbit uh was given a hit. >> Um well, he he was older than me, right? He was older than me and he told me um you know he was kind of getting short to The house where he

could maybe go home. He had a date >> and so he asked me if I would go out and take one on some dude and and and rush this guy and he would kind of fall back and that's something I did. >> Okay. So he was told by the upper leadership to go get a particular >> No, no. He he told he he basic we made an agreement as his sell. He's like cuz we were going out to this yard and there was only one Southerner out there and he Said when we go out there

can you rush him? I'm going to fall back because I'm trying to go home. So I went out there and I rushed the guy. >> Right. And you got caught and you got charged for it. >> Yeah. >> And that got you transferred to Pelican Bay. Yeah, because that was already like my fourth or fifth yard fight. And um that particular fight I got into um they gave me another charge, another DA Referral um for like, you know, it was called a great bodily injury where you like really assault somebody and injure them. So they

charged me with that, gave me another DA referral, and because they, you know, it was more severe at that point, you know, I was I was looked at as like basically an an inmate or a convict that just wasn't getting along with anybody. So at that point, they gave me another shoe term, uh, 18-month shoe term, and they sent me up to Pelican Bay. >> Okay. Now, Pelican Bay is a supermax. >> Yeah. >> So this is essentially the worst of the worst, >> correct? especially during those years. Um, you know, it was a fairly

new prison. It probably been open like maybe five or six years during that time, but everybody knew in the state of California that Pelican Bay was like the worst of the worst, >> right? And initially you're in the shoe, >> correct? >> But you eventually go on the main line, >> correct? >> So now you're on the main line at Pelican Bay. >> Mhm. >> Is this a totally different world? >> Yeah, for sure. cuz you're, you know, for me, um, number one, I'd been in the shoe for about two and a half years, so

or the hole in the shoe for like two and A half years, so just being around people again was an adjustment, right? And then, um, also two, I know at Pelican Bay, I'm just surrounded by killers and, um, it's very, very serious. The politics up there, very, very serious. So, um, yeah, you're you're definitely on your toes every single day. >> Right. You said uh Pelican Bay had the most violence you've ever seen in your life. >> Yeah, I remember. >> No fist fighting. Everyone was trying to kill somebody. >> Yeah. I mean, the the

very first um time on the yard that I went to um believe it was a facility um on the four yard. Um first day on the yard um you know, I'm with I'm with the North Daniels. There's probably about 20 to 30 of us on that yard. And um some Sudananiel took out another Sudananiel, hit him in the neck, and this guy, the helicopter, they put The whole yard down. Um and so everyone's on the ground. This guy got hit in the neck. You know, he's bleeding severely, and they had to have to have get

a helicopter to come land on the yard, airlift him to the hospital to save his life. >> You know, like I've seen a lot of movies about this over the years. The one that impacted me the the most was American me. >> And you saw examples of that in that Movie where like Serenos would hit each other, right, that weren't following orders. >> Was that happening a lot? >> Yeah, and the North Daniels too, it happened on both sides. Um I think with the with the Mexican gangs, um they're a lot stricter and um if

people don't fall in line or they do something wrong, u you can get hit really easy. And you know I saw a lot of that Sudeno on Sudeno or even Norteno on Norteno as Well. >> So were you given missions being in Norteno and being you know cuz a lot of the newest familiar shot callers were there at Pelican Bay right? >> Mhm. >> So when I was in the shoe in Corkran I was sent on a couple of missions. That's why I was getting in so many fights. Um but once I got up to

Pelican Bay when we're in the shoe it's a completely different environment now from Corkran Where everyone's waring. You go up to Pelican Bay there's no war. the the um the rules are different, the politics are different where there's no green light on opposing races or factions. People are essentially doing their time there, but you know, if something if somebody gets a call from the back from the shoe to go do something on the main line, that happens all the time. >> Okay. And by this time, are you a shot caller? >> No. No. I was

just uh like a North Daniel foot soldier associate. Well, the one thing that really impacted me the most from watching American Me and it made me literally say, "I'm never going to go to prison rape scene." Well, the multiple rape scenes really >> in that movie. >> Does that actually happen in the prisons that you were at? >> No. I mean, I I think this this Hollywood crap is so fake. Um, and there There's no punks running around on the yard on level four yards. um you know there's nobody like a gay group of people

that's non-existent. I mean I think the stuff that happens on TV is completely uh completely fake. Now don't get me wrong maybe on a level ones and two yards >> there it's a little looser and then some certain prisons like very very soft yards there might be more gay or you know whatever going on but where I was At it wasn't like that. >> Okay. Well, by 97, uh, a race riot broke out between the blacks and Serenos, and this was one of the largest prison riots at that point. Uh, you were there, >> correct?

So, it was actually like 96. Um, I had my dates um, incorrect, but it was around 96. There was a big riot between the Southerners and the Blacks. And, um, I mean, there's literally like 100 people on the yard going at it. Um, I was on the yard, me and my people, we just got out of the way because I was in between them. Um, but it was a huge riot. Like I said, at least, you know, 100 people involved. Um, lots of people got stabbed, shots were fired. Um, and then at that point, they

locked down all the Southerners and all the blacks for like months after that. >> Okay. And you actually stabbed somebody during that riot. >> Well, down the road. Down the road. Um, I sliced somebody um when we got into it with the whites like uh like a month or two later. Um, at that point cuz the the southerners and the blacks were the um ones locked down, the only people going to the main yard during that time were the northerners and the whites. So, because the blacks and southerners had friction, um there was talk or

you heard whispers that, you know, the whites might move on us. So sure enough, uh, one time we're we're out in the yard and You know, the whites had their particular parts on the yard. We had our particular parts on the yard and so um, all the all of our homies were like posted up at a table probably about 10 or 15 deep and um, there the whites had a table a little ways down and I was actually walking on the track at the time doing security cuz we would do security kind of like walk

around the track and like monitor the yard, see what's going on. And um sure enough, I'm Walking around the yard. You can see on the other side of the yard, you see a wave of whites moving to the table and you know it's on. So we start running across the yard to to get involved and by that time everyone's already going at it, right? People are getting stabbed, people getting sliced, people are fighting and you just try to hit and grab whoever you can. The cos are running at us to get us down. They're telling

us to get the yard down. And so That's when I actually did, you know, slashed somebody and got out of the way, tossed a weapon and got out of the way. And um that's what I was involved with um at Pelican Bay. >> Was that the first time you stabbed somebody? >> No, I mean I was I've did other things, you know, but um like for example, in the corporate shoe, there's a toilet on the yard. You can flush stuff on the toilet. You know what I mean? It's Different. So um but yeah at that

particular pace place that was uh the first time I did something there. >> Were you ever stabbed yourself? >> Never. >> Okay. Now at one point a bunch of rollups happened with the Nortanos. What exactly is that? >> So that in Pelican Bay. So what happened after we got into it with the whites? They put us all on lockdown. And so now Basically the whole facility is on lockdown except the others. Others are the only people that can still go to the yard. So, we were on lockdown for a while, but because um um everybody

was basically in their cells, um I had a transfer that I had put up put in like months before for New Folsam. And at that point, they shot me down to New Folsam and that's where um a lot of people were getting rolled up off the yard when I got to that point. >> Okay. And at that point, you became a shot caller. So when I got down to New Folsam, anybody that was coming down from like Pelican Bay, you already had like clout and reputation like, "Oh, he just got here from the bay." So

they I don't want to say they put you on a pedestal, but they do look at you and treat you a little bit different, you know, cuz you just came from what's supposed to be like the worst place, right? And so um when I got to New Folsome, we had a good group of guys on the yard. There was about 40 to 50 of us. We had our own yard. Everybody was programming. Everybody was doing their thing. Um, but the politics were a little weird on that yard because whoever was running the yard, they would

get rolled up off the yard. Like somebody was snitching on on people to like they they didn't they didn't want there was somebody on the yard who didn't want it to be so political and so Hard people wanted to just chill and do their time. So left and right people were getting rolled up off the yard. And so, um, at at one point, um, we got into a fight with the whites. So, the stuff that happened at Pelican Bay kind of got carried over to, um, New Folsam Seard. A and, um, what happened there was

it was a one-on-one, but, it was a pretty serious fight. And from my experience and the way I was training, the way I was schooled down, Anytime anybody gets in a fight, it's usually going to be all of us, right? So at that point, the guy who was running our yard for the for the northern car, he got rolled up off the yard. And so I was the one who ended up with the keys to the yard. And so at that point when um it was a one-on-one, they put us on lockdown for like a

week. I inherited the keys to the yard. And at that point um I had the decision to make whether we're going to go to war with the whites Or we're just going to call it a one-off. And I basically gave the word when we come out of lockdown, we got to rush them. So I gave that call. They let they let out blocks like one at a time. They let out the first block and basically the northerns rushed the whites. Um some bloods from Sacramento helped them because they were outnumbered. And so now this yard

had a had a new war going on between the northerns and the whites. >> Okay. And you were the head of the nenos in this whole in this whole prison essentially. >> No. And on that yard. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Got it. So on that yard like how many Nortanos did you have under you? >> About 40 to 50. >> Okay. >> You have quite a bit of power. How did it feel at that point? Cuz how old were You at that time? >> Um I was about 25. >> So you're like 5 years or

so into it. >> Mhm. >> And now you're running a yard. >> Correct. >> Now I've interviewed various, you know, particularly Sereno rappers. >> Mhm. And they all kind of told me, you know, a similar story where when they were first kind of getting into the Gang, they were all aspiring to end up in Pelican Bay and be shot callers or be like one of the heads, you know, doing life in prison and but controlling the gang from inside the walls. Like was that something you aspired to at some point? >> I don't think so.

Not for me personally. It's not something I like dreamed about like I want to be a shot caller. But through through the years of my time, like when I was in the Cork and Shoe at One point, I was with with a pretty high level structure guy, he was my si. Um when I was at Pelican Bay, um in the shoe, I was in the same pod with other highle ranking NF guys. And then when I was on the Pelican Bay mainline, I was also settled up with one of the shot callers on um on

that yard that I was on as well. So throughout my history, um I was always around really good people. Um, I like to think I was schooled down and very educated on on, you know, the Way we did things. So, when I got to basically New Folsome, I think I was kind of prepped for the role because I'd been around a lot of good people and had a lot of experience. >> Okay. So, after making that call for the Nenyos to attack the whites in the process, anybody die or anybody get stabbed up real bad?

Uh it was it was it was like a melee, you know, like you know, probably like 10 20 people involved, but you know, it's it's race On race. So at that point, they lock everybody down. Anytime there's um different factions going at each other or different gangs going at each other or different races, they'll lock down the whole facility and investigate to see what's going on. >> Okay. But because you made that call, someone ended up snitching on you. >> Correct. So about a week later, my door popped. Mind you, we're all on lock down.

My door popped and they're like, "Sanchez, roll it up. You're going to the hole." And you know, for me, I'm like, "Fuck." You know, like, um, you know, obviously somebody said something about me, right? You know, cuz I already said there a lot of people were getting rolled up off the yard. So, um, I said, "You know what? When they roll me up, I was surprised. They take you off the yard. They cuff you up, take you off the yard, um, and basically put you like in a holding cell." And at that point, um, You

know, they they make you sit there for a little bit so you can think, right? And, um, at that point, you know, I'd already been about 5 years into my sentence. Um, you know, back in those days, we had we had halftime. So, if I would have had like a clean clean ride through prison, I should have got out in like five and a half, six years, right? But I was nowhere near I didn't even have a date, you know what I mean? So, at that decision, I was like 5 years in And um you

know, I'm I'm maturing. I'm changing and I'm like, you know what? Um I really want to go home. You know, I got I got a family. I got a little brother, my mom. I'm stressed out. Like, I really want to try to um get out and change my life. So, at that point, um I let the cos know like, hey, I don't want to be active no more. And at that point, I took another route to go on the non-active side or, you know, um, change changed my ways. >> Well, wasn't there a a concern

that the Nortanos would actually retaliate against you even before he dropped out because riot thing? >> Exly. Exactly. So, the way I looked at it too, like I I thought about, okay, so this is what can happen. I can go back to the to the hole. They can give me an indeterminate shoe because obviously I've been into a lot of stuff already. or somebody might have called me a shot caller and automatically if somebody Puts a jacket on you like that, they're going to maybe give you an indeterminant shoe. Um, and then also too, if

the guys in the hole didn't like my call in on the main line, they might hit me or they might tell me to do some cleanup. Either way, >> what does clean up mean? >> Basically, go go go do something to clean up what you just did. Like go hit somebody. So basically, if I went to the hole, it was like to me a a lose Lose-lose situation where I might my my homies may not have liked the call I made. I might get an indeterminate shoe or um they would tell me to go do

some clean up. If I go do some cleanup, I'm going to get into even more trouble. So at that point, I said, "You know what? I'm trying to get out." And that's why I went a different route. >> Okay. So at that point, you dropped out. >> Yeah. >> Now, how is this viewed by the Nenos? >> Um like [ __ ] like you're a piece of [ __ ] >> right? And at that point, is there a hit out on you for dropping out or no? >> You know what, Vlad? I had a great

name up until that point. Like I I fell in line and did everything I did I was supposed to do up to that point. >> Um I did run into a homie from San Francisco years down the road u when I was out and he's like, "I heard about what happened to you at New Folsam." And That's all he said to me. Like obviously people knew, right? But um did anybody put a hit on me? You know, did I did I did I you know go roll did I go snitch on any other people? Did

I go do anything? No, I checked out on me and um I disassociated from what I did and that was it. >> Right. So that boy get transferred to SNY which is sensitive needs yard. >> Correct. >> Now that's with the dropouts. >> Yeah. but as well as sex offenders, uh, snitches, you know, child molesters, everything else like that. So, what was it like to then be in that type of environment? >> So, keep in mind this is like 97, right? It's a completely different time from way the way things are right now. Um, I

would say at least 90% of the yard is all like gang dropouts. So, you had Sudenos, Nortenos, you know, dropouts from the NF, drops dropouts from the Mexican mafia. Um, I would say about 90% of the people on those yards during those years were ex gang members that no longer wanted to be in gangs or something happened. And then, you know, these other people that you mentioned, you don't go seeking these people out. And those people, if anything, they're like hiding and trying to like program and, you know, they're not trying to be on the

yard around, you know, gangsters or ex gangsters, you know what I mean? So, you don't know who they are and you're not really going out there to try to find out who they are anyway. Okay. Now, while you're at SNY, you ran into a bunch of high-profile people. >> Eric Mendez. Yeah. >> Of the Menendez brothers. >> Yeah. I played handball with him on the um on on the little small yard um when I was kind of in transition before they let me out to the to the main line of the of the non-active side.

Um he was in There for like Contraband and you know, obviously everybody knows who he is, right? And um he was just very very low-key, very quiet during those years. And um you're on they put you on a yard with with everybody. So I'm on the yard now, a little small yard with like, you know, exudenos, whites, blacks, celebrities, and they want they put us all together to see if we're going to fight each other or if we're just going to, you know, chill and do our time. So When I was on a yard with

him, we're already mixed and we're all people that are like moving away from the active side. So there is nothing going on between us. I mean, what's your take on the whole Menendez brothers thing because they may actually get their sentence reversed and they might actually get out sometime soon. >> Um, I mean, I know they've been down for a really long time, >> 35 years or something. >> Um, I do believe everybody deserves a second chance except sex offenders. I don't think sex offenders deserve a second chance. Them obviously they're they're accused of something

very um >> very sinister. They killed their parents with >> killing their parents, whacking their parents. I don't I don't know if they did or they didn't. >> No, they did. >> Yeah. >> But the reason is cuz they claimed their father was molesting them. >> And um I still believe um everybody deserves a second chance because I think as a human people change, they evolve. They mature. Um and and hopefully at this stage in their life, maybe they're a completely different people from when they were, you know, 20 years old. Cuz I know me.

Um I'm a completely different person now from when I was 20 years old. Well, you also ran into Charles Manson. >> I ran it. I walked by Charles Manson um in the Corkran shoe. So over there you have the Corkran shoe. You have the the PHU was one unit. I think they had Seiran Seiran in there too. >> So in at during those years 93 94 the PHU had like um you know very highlevel celebrities. So like Manson was in there um Siran Sirhan was there and um but we all go to the same visiting

rooms right behind glass but you know they cuff us up. So, it's not like, you know, I can Walk by and tap him in the side of his head or anything like that. We're all cuffed up and they walk us to to to visits like this, like with ankle ankle chains, belly chains, and they escort us. So, I'm being escorted from a visit and he was going to a visit and I literally walked right by him and you know, this is like 94 and um he was just a little old man. I mean, by that

time, I mean, he's obviously I don't know how old he is now, but >> Well, he's dead now. >> Yeah. Oh, >> yeah. So, >> he's tiny. I mean, he's a little old man, like literally like five feet tall, >> right? And uh Richard Ramirez, aka the Nightstalker. Yeah. Was also this guy was a real lunatic. >> He was in A50 Bryant when I was there. When I was in San Francisco in the county jail. >> Oh. >> So this is way back in u ' 92. He killed somebody up in the Bay. He killed

somebody up in San Francisco. So when they caught when they charged him with everything in LA, they had to take him back to San Francisco to to face charges over there as well. And so he was in the county jail in '92, 93 up in San Francisco. >> Okay. Now, when you're in SNY, any incidents or is it fairly fairly >> decent? No, >> at this point it it's like cruise control. >> Okay. >> Um I'm really going out to the yard. Um doing my thing, staying away from everybody. I played sports. I worked out.

I had a job. So, I wasn't even on the yard a lot at this time. At that time, the whole the whole purpose of going that route was to program and get out. >> Okay. So, in ' 98, you got transferred To Mule Creek, >> correct? And then in 2000, you get parole after serving about seven and a half years. >> Correct. >> How did it feel when you actually heard you got a date? >> Um I remember it was like still 99, right? So it was probably like um October, November, December 99. And so

by this time I had been clean like I haven't been getting into any trouble. I Haven't been getting any writeups. So every 90 days if you're clean they would give you some time back that you lost. So I would get like updates. seen my time drop from like 2002 to 2001 to 2000. And you know, by this time, I basically earned all the credit back that I had lost. And so, they finally gave me a date of March 25th, 2000. Honestly, I was really hoping to get out before 2000. But, um, you know, obviously I

got a date March 25th, 2000. Um, that was the best it was going to get. And, um, man, I was super happy. >> Okay. And you actually walked out in 2000? I walked out March 25th, 2000. >> How'd it feel to actually walk out of that cell? Because at that point, most of your 20s was spent in a cage. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, they, you know, they um my sister sent me a care package, so they give you dress outs like you could wear some fresh clothes and walk out, you know what I mean? So,

that was my First time putting on some nice clothes in, you know, almost 8 years. Um, and so they you go to receiving and releasing RNR, you change, and basically you just wait a little bit. At that point, they just walk you out, cut you loose. And um I remember walking out the gates and my sisters, they were waiting across the street for me in the um in a car. And um you know, they're waiting for me. I like threw my hands in the air and I was just like, "Man, thank God I'm out of

here." Well, all this happened after you left, but there were a series of ceasefires between Ortenos and Serenos in prison in 2004, which is 4 years after you left. Uh, I guess there was a ceasefire ministry, a Christian anti-gang program that tried to get not to have a truce that lasted for some amount of time. 2019, there's another truce. In 2023, there's another truce, which I believe is just in the prisons, but not outside. Were You familiar with any of these truses as they were happening, although you were out at this point? I mean, I

have friends um that I did time with that were maybe kept more in touch with people to to kind of um keep tabs on what was going on. Um so yeah, I mean obviously over the years there's been a lot of changes. I mean at this stage right now where where we're at um you know as brown people, as Rasa, there's a lot of other stuff going on in this Country that we need to be more concerned about. And I do hope one day um that that Rasa can just basically do better and take care

of each other and not be at each other's throats because um there's a lot of other stuff to worry about right now. >> Okay. So now you're on the outside, you're exfellon, you're a dropout, so you don't have any sort of gang activities going on at all. Are you running into other gang members during This time or have you totally separated yourself? >> Completely separated myself and I never looked back. Uh my whole thing was getting my life together. I was 27 years old now. Uh my whole thing was getting my life together and um

becoming successful at something, >> right? So you start getting regular jobs. First you start uh handing out flyers. >> Correct. >> Uh then you start getting some, you know, cold calling jobs, you know, call center type jobs. And >> slowly, you know, you're kind of building up. You worked at 24-hour fitness. >> Correct. >> At one point, >> correct? And then you kind of start getting into finance, >> right? >> And uh that actually led up to you Actually becoming a branch manager at uh Town and Country Credit. Exactly. >> Which is like a credit

union? >> No, no, it was a mortgage bank. >> Mortgage bank. >> Mortgage bank. >> Okay. And at that point, you were managing like 20 loan officers, three processors. >> Mhm. >> And you're actually making real money. >> Yeah, I was doing good, man. I was I was Out now probably about 3 years, about 2003. >> Mhm. Um, we had a a nice fat office right there in South City. Um, Oyster Point Boulevard right on the water. >> Um, I had this amazing office looking at the bay. I was wearing a suit and tie. I

bought my first Mercedes. I was making good money. And um, I got promoted really quick. I was managing a team. I was like, man, you know, life is perfect. But I was still on parole. So, Um, my parole agent, you know, I would have to check in with them or they would come to my place and check into me, check in with me like, you know, every month. Um, they see me dressing a certain way. Um, my parole agent saw that I had a nice car and he was like, "How'd you get that car?" Working,

you know, I'm working hard. It's what I do. And he's like, "What do you do?" And I do loans. I I manage this manage this branch. U, we're doing a lot of loans. And they're like, "You're not supposed to be working in a place like that." U because of your background. Um obviously you have access to a lot of people's personal information, social security numbers, credit cards. Um you know, we're going to give you one month to either resign or tell your boss um about your background. So they gave me that um ultimatum that I

had to basically tell on myself or resign. And so at that point, I was just barely building my Career in the mortgage game, in the finance world. And so, um, I told my my my district manager, her name was Keith La Cobar. I'll never forget her cuz she, um, gave me an opportunity. Um, I told her I had to talk to her. I literally went to go visit her. And, um, I I resigned. I quit my job because my parole agent made me. Well, by 2006, you were making $600,000 a year. That's crazy. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> That's crazy. Especially back then, 20 years ago, which is like what, maybe 900,000, almost a million in today's dollars. >> Yeah. I was balling. >> You were balling out. >> I was balling out. 2005 I made like 800. >> Um 2006 I made like 600. And then the next year is when the the mortgage collapse happened. >> Well, as you're making all this money though, you start getting into cocaine. >> Yeah. I start partying a lot. I >> I I remember uh my first job out of college, I met this guy, right? We

were both working at the same company together. He was one of the original programmers hired at Apple. >> Oh, wow. >> At like 15 years old. >> Oh, wow. >> And he had the original, you know, Apple stock and everything. And I was like, why are you still working right now? You're one of the original Apple employees. And he said, well, cocaine is God's way of telling you you're making too much money. >> Yeah. Cuz cocaine will burn through that money. >> Yeah. No, it's the party lifestyle, you know, >> cuz not just you, but

everyone else is sniffing your coke, the girls, the parties, the friends that come around, and next thing you know, >> you know, you're broke. >> Yeah. We're at We're at the strip clubs all the time. We're at the clubs all the time, taking trips all the time, >> blowing the money, thinking it was never going to end. And so, yeah, just a crazy lifestyle and and blowing a lot of money. >> Right. By 2007, the financial crash happened. That was the that was the whole real estate crash. I remember that cuz I started my company

around that Time. >> It was a bad time. >> Yeah, >> it was a bad time. A lot of people lost a lot of money. >> Really bad. I lost my ass. >> So, you lost everything. >> I lost everything. >> You weren't putting money aside, investing money. >> I mean, you know what? So, here's the thing. like just as quickly as I made It, you know, like I had the I had the the ambition and the motivation and the hustle to make the money, but I didn't have the financial education on how to invest

it. You know what I mean? Cuz obviously I was in prison for so long. So, I had that that go-getter attitude. I knew how to make it, but yeah, I should have probably bought more real estate. I should have invested in this. I should have invested in that. But at that time, my financial acumen wasn't Where it should have been. And so, I burned through all that money. Right. And at one point you actually stopped doing Coke. >> I did stop around 2009. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> So you stopped doing Coke. You started working

at Wells Fargo Home Mortgage. >> Mhm. >> And then you started working for Trullia.com. >> Correct. Trullia.com was a startup in San Francisco. Um they were acquired by Zillow years later and u we took that company public. Uh, we were popping champagne bottles at 6:00 a.m. in the office while our CEO was at um the New York Stock Exchange. >> So, it was a really cool time and I was doing good again. >> Right. But then by 2013, you're about 41, you relapsed. >> Yeah. >> And started doing coke again. >> Started getting back into

that party lifestyle. Um, to me, what for me it was like I was always chasing that carrot. Like you're always looking for that next big hit, you know what I mean? And so, um, I was making okay money, but to go from making, you know, 8 8600,000 to making, you know, 100,000 during those years, it's not the same. So, for me, I looking back on it, I was like depressed, started drinking again, Started doing drugs again, and one thing led to another, >> right? It culminated in 2014, 42 years old. You rob a bank. I

robbed a bank. Uh, Bank of the West on on Giri Street, San Francisco. >> Right. No mask. >> Um, no mask. I had like a ball cap on low. My my coat pulled up high and they got they got my pretty face right on the camera. >> Right. You come in Well, with no gun. >> No gun. >> Uh, did you basically what? Give him a note instead of >> gave him a note. Gave him a note. put my hand in my pocket like I had a weapon and gave the note to the teller right

before they closed. He started scrambling, grabbing all the cash that was readily available, gave me a bag of cash and I ran out and took off. >> Right. You had $12,000. >> 12 grand, >> which is not a lot of money. >> No, it was >> like compared to what you were making. I can imagine if you're fresh out of prison, you've got no place to stay, you're homeless. Okay, 12,000 is a lot. You were making $800,000 not that long ago and you robbed a bank barefaced for $12,000. >> You must have looked at yourself

and said, "What the hell did I just do?" >> Yeah. No, I mean like obviously when I Got arrested a little while after that, um just reflecting back on that time, I obviously hit like rock bottom to do something like that. >> Well, right because then you robbed a city bank. >> I went to go hit a city bank and um it was like 4:55. They close at like 5:00. I was in line. I was just about to give the note to the Actually, I gave the note to the teller. And as soon as I

gave her the note, I could see somebody Behind me walking in the bank, walking right behind me. And I got nervous and I ran out. >> Okay. But then you dropped your phone. >> I dropped my cell phone. >> Then you tried to go back to get the cell phone. >> I tried to go back to get it. Um I couldn't see it anywhere cuz by that time when I ran out the bank, I was taking off my coat, right? because obviously I want to look different, Right? So, I'm taking off my coat and when

I pulled off my coat, the phone must have fell out. I ran up the hill, jumped in my car, took off and um you know, I parked like 2 miles away. I could hear all the sirens and I get out of the car cuz I'm taking off my clothes changing and I'm looking for my phone. I'm like, "Where's my phone? Where's my phone?" I'm like, "Fuck." You know, I I think I dropped my phone. So then I went back to go look and you know, by this Time I took all my clothes off, so I

look kind of my appearance looks different. Um, I go back like walking around looking on the ground. Um, couldn't find my phone. At that point, I freaked out and I I drove to my mom's house. >> And then you told her everything. >> Yeah, I used to tell my mom everything, you know. Um, my mom was my best friend. I told her everything about my personal life, my love life. Um, she knew Everything about me. I told her everything, right? And I told her what I did cuz I was like panicking. And um my dumb

ass told her to um hey mom, would you mind calling my phone to see if somebody picks up? And now not knowingly, I'm having my mom do something like that. I'm getting her twisted up. >> Oh, so now she's involved in the crime. >> Well, cuz she she called she called my phone. >> Well, but she could just say I was trying to find my son, so I called the phone. What was the big deal? >> Yeah. But see, by that time, they had my phone. They start looking at my phone. They start looking at

my phone number, seeing all my pictures. you know, go go in their database to look who Mario Sanchez is. Oh, Mario Sanchez did all these robberies back in the '9s. Um, and they put everything together. >> Well, then your mom turned you in. >> So, I was freaking out so hard when I went to my mom's house that I was like kind of yelling at her to like help me out. And um and so I scared her. And so, that weekend she told one of my sisters what I did. And my sister was like, "Turn

his ass in." But she did. >> So years ago, your dad turns you in in a way. Then later on, your mom turns you in. >> Correct. >> I mean, at that point, do you feel like, Man, my parents are just not on my side? >> Um, it's crazy. Like, even right now, my my dad passed away years ago, so there's never any like really big reconciliation. My mom is very sick now. She has dementia, so I can't even really talk to her anymore. So, um, it is what it is. It's unfortunate. Um, obviously I

have really good friends that have amazing relationships with their parents. Um, I never had that with my dad. Once upon a time, I did have a Really good relationship with my mom, but you know, I'm the one that has to take responsibility, look in the mirror, and I'm the one who created this [ __ ] >> Well, yeah. You said I was back in San Francisco County Jail as a 42year-old man, and I felt like a total loser. >> I did. I did because now I was surrounded by youngsters that were like in their early

20s. And I remember when I first went to prison in my early 20s, I would see some of these OGs that were Like 40s and 50s and we would be like, "This guy's a [ __ ] loser." You know what I mean? So, and I I was that loser. >> Yeah. I remember uh this guy Mayo, this rapper out of New York, uh the regular on my show, he said the worst thing to be in prison and be that young guy talking about like, "Oh, there goes Pops." And at one point they're Pops. Yeah. >>

That's just the worst feeling. >> No, it was it was it was um like I said, I hit rock bottom and um yeah, at that point that's when I really started reflecting on like my whole my whole life flashed before my eyes. You know what I mean? Cuz at that point um they were they were talking about striking me out with the three three strikes law. >> So you had two felonies at that point? >> Well, when I plead guilty to all those counts when I was younger, I plead guilty to like nine nine or

10 felonies. So I had multiple felony convict Convictions, but I just had one controlling case. >> Okay. So they were trying to give you three strikes, which meant life? >> Life. >> Okay. So you bail out? >> Yeah. >> And basically, this part's a little weird. So the feds didn't pick it up because it wasn't enough money. >> Small amount of money. So the 12,000. >> Yeah. So they they came and talked to me. the FBI. Initially, when I first got arrested, they came and tried to talk to me. I didn't have nothing to say,

but at that point, I knew how serious this was, obviously, cuz it was a bank, right? Um, but they didn't pick up the case because of the the the amount of cash. >> Okay. Did the state pick up the case? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, what happens next? >> So, when I bailed out, um, my attorney Was basically coaching me through like I was in the county jail for like 5 months, right? going to court. Waving time. Going to court. Waving time. And she's like, "If you don't bail out of here, if you don't bail

out of here, you're not going to have a fair chance to really fight this. You need to get out, get back on track, get your life back together, and really try to uh redeem yourself." So, when I bailed out, I was in San Francisco for a little bit, But keep in mind, I was in the county jail for 5 months. I lost my place. I lost my car. I lost my dog. I lost everything. So, I was back to square one again, you know, and so, um, but now you're in your 40s. >> And now

I'm in my 40s. >> So, you don't really have a good excuse to ask, you know, when you're in your 20s. >> And, and by this time, too, my family wasn't even talking to me anymore. So, My whole family cut me off. So, I was on my own. So, at that point, um, one of my one of my good friends who was out in Vegas at that time, Tony, he was like, you know, like, yo, come out here. Um, you know, you can stay here and, you know, when you got to go to court, go

to court, but you can lay low over here. And by the way, I'm working on a project and you can help me with this project. >> Right. That was a short film. >> Short film with um GE, correct? >> Right. This is kind of early in his career, right? >> Yeah. This is when he was like, you know, really popping off, blowing up >> and um 2015 is when we shot this short film. >> Well, by 2021, they actually dropped the charges. >> So, I fought the case for about six and a half years, waving

time, going back and forth to court for the last six and a half years. I was going to court Probably like every two to three months making an appearance. Uh my attorney would just wave time. But by this time in um 2016, I moved to LA. Uh reestablished myself, started working with the mortgage broker again. Um started managing a loan modification office. So now I reestablished myself. I'm making good money. Um I started going to therapy. I started going to substance abuse therapy. I'm giving all this paperwork to my attorney to show The judge, to

show the DA. So like this guy is changing his life. >> And then finally in um 2020, there's an election in San Francisco uh district attorney election. So um that's there's a a DA by the name of Chessa Bodí, who is like one of these um I don't want to say soft on crime district attorneys, but he he believed in like rehabilitation, right? So, he became the new DA in San Francisco and uh my attorney knew him. So, my attorney Started getting in his ear about me. Look what he's been doing over the last five

or six years. He's doing good. Give this guy a chance. And sure enough, he did. And they dropped they dropped all the charges. And um by that time, I' I'd already been fighting the case for like six and a half years. They dropped all the charges and that was it. >> I mean, you got lucky. I got really lucky. >> I mean, to have an excon with violent Felonies who was a Pelican Bay known gang member, you know, although you're an ex-gang member, you still worry gang member to rob a bank with $12,000, which is

a felony, right? It's not a misdemeanor cuz I think once you get what, 2,000 it becomes a felony. >> It's like 500 or,000. >> 500 exactly, even less than that. for them to actually drop the charges was extremely lucky. >> Yeah. And and and the way I look at it like you know obviously over these years when I kind of rebuilding myself I got a lot more spiritual and I just felt like you know somebody's looking out for me obviously but also too the DA um that was on my side. I got lucky with the

DA, knowing my attorney, and then also too, I did the work where, you know, I reestablished myself, working professionally, you know, going to therapy, doing a bunch of stuff, Submitting drug test to show them I was clean. And u they gave me they gave me a break. >> Right. And these days, you actually run a loan modification office. >> Yeah. >> Out here in the valley. >> Yeah. Not too far from here. >> Okay. And what exactly is that? >> So loan modifications are basically people that are in jeopardy of losing their home. So what

we do is we provide A service to get them back in good standing with their bank. And so like for example, if somebody is like 3 4 months behind, their bank's not willing to work with them, they come to us as a third party to basically be in contact with the bank. We exercise certain federal laws that protect the homeowner and then we work on getting them a new loan with a better rate, a better payment, and getting them back on track. >> Okay. Is it like a second mortgage Sometimes? >> It's they It's their

same first mortgage, but we basically reset it. >> Okay. So, you actually help people keep their homes? >> Yes, I do. >> So, you can feel good about what you're actually doing. It's not just a business. You're actually helping people. >> Definitely. No, we we're literally saving a lot of people that might lose Their home. >> Look, I've always said this uh like my house in Calabasas, I bought it outright because I've always felt the mortgages are just predatory in the way they're structured, period. right? >> Any bank. >> The fact that you could get

a 30-year mortgage, live in that house for 15 years, >> sell the house, and essentially own the same amount. >> All you've been doing is paying off interest the whole time. >> Mhm. >> And don't miss a few payments. They'll take the house from you >> for sure. >> They won't pay you back all that money you've, >> you know, spent over the last 15 years in mortgage payments and then that's it. It's now their house. >> Yeah. >> It It's just crazy to me, you know, like, okay, people say, you know, Yeah. If you

do stay in a house for 30 years, but even in 30 years, you'll probably pay about triple what the house is worth. If it's a $500,000 house, you'll pay about 1.5 million if you count all the interest payments and so forth, >> right? And I worked at these banks, so I see what they do. You know what I mean? Crazy. >> Like, and that and I think in a in a Weird way, like when I went out to go rob a bank, I was like, you know, f these banks because cuz I know I know

what they do. I worked in Wales and I saw what they would do to customers, right? and I didn't like it. And and that was like me evolving, growing, maturing, seeing things differently now. And um now we literally fight the banks to help our clients. >> Well, right now in LA, the ICE raids have been happening. What's your take on That? >> Um I think it's I think it's horrible. I think it's horrible. Um you see like no due process at all. It's uh racial profiling, ethnic cleansing. Um, if you really go back into the

history of what California has done with um, Rasa or Mexicans or Latinos, they had operation in the 50s. >> That was a real name. >> That was a real name. That was That's a real thing. No, that's a real thing. That was a real thing that happened in the 50s. So, they're doing it all over again. They did it before. >> They're doing it again. And um you know I really think the rasa the people that are getting um you know taken in. Number one, we our community needs to be a lot more educated. Um

they need to know the laws. Um I think a lot of these people that are being detained, they all have lawsuits against the government now. They need to sue the hell out of the Government. And um yeah, it's just really unfortunate. >> Well, to play devil's advocate because I'm an immigrant myself. Like I came from USSR. I mean it's Ukraine now, but back then it was Russia. and we came over legally. I got a citizenship and the people who are getting deported, they are not here legally. Now, I understand that sometimes they've been here for

20 years. You know, they have families, they have sometimes businesses And so forth, but at the end of the day, if you're not here illegally, how upset can you be that at some point someone figures out and sends you back? Go to any other country of the world, you can't stay in other countries illegally. They'll send you right back as well, >> right? But now, if you see what they're doing, if they're going to deport people, then they should go deport them at the border. They could they should deport them back to the country. What

They're doing is they're putting them in these detention centers all around the country that they're building so these corporations and politicians can make money on housing immigrants. >> So, if they really wanted to get rid of them, go deport their ass. Now, we're going to tie you up in this detention center for 3 to 6 months or maybe even a year. we're gonna make money off of every single immigrant or detainee and now it's a business model for them and That's what they're doing. So that's that's what's messed up about it. >> Interesting. Yeah, I

didn't really think about it that way. >> That's what they're doing. >> I mean, if you look at all the movies that have been released about Mexican gangs, which movie do you think really captures the essence the best? >> Um, honestly, none of them to be honest. Um, the one movie that I've always had like a a sentimental feeling with was uh Sha Shank Redemption >> because of the way they narrate it and they talk about like an inmate's feelings, how you feel when when you're in there. >> Um, the stuff you go through on

the dayto-day, it's a completely different story. It's an older movie, but the way you feel like emotionally while you're incarcerated, I think that was the one that I actually related to the most. Well, you know, I don't know if you Heard about the whole backstory of American me, but I remember at one point I interviewed Danny Tjo and he confirmed right the rumor that I had heard. And if you remember the movie, you saw the movie. >> Yeah. >> Remember? Uh yeah, me too. >> Yeah. >> There was a scene that showed, you know, the

founder of the Mexican mafia as a teenager getting in juvenile juvenile Hall. And when that movie came out, the Serenos went crazy. >> Yeah. I mean, it's number one if they're depicting somebody incorrectly. >> Yeah. >> Um and let alone um having somebody show somebody having their manhood taken. >> Yeah. >> Um you know, Yeah. people probably got killed and they deserve to get killed for that. >> 10 people got killed. Yeah. Around that Movie. M >> like all the everyone who was like an extra or was like a consultant or whatever else even though

they weren't involved in the script obviously Edward James Almost was the only one that really wrote that script >> right >> they were getting clipped left and right there was a hit on Edward James Almost ultimately he didn't get killed but he had to carry a gun around and so forth >> and you know when I talked to Danny Tjo about he goes they shouldn't have showed that because that didn't actually happen >> right >> they just want to bring some more drama Yeah. >> To the film, but at a very steep cost. >> Yeah.

>> Like for example, like if you're a Norteno and you found out that you know, one of your guys got by a man, >> could they still be a Norteno at that Point? >> I don't think so. >> That's it. >> Yeah, that's horrible. That that's like the That's like the worst thing that could happen to a man, I think. Obviously. You know what I mean? >> Okay. So, you can't be affiliated. >> I mean, you and we wouldn't even accept anyone. we were active. If if somebody had been in there for like rape or

something like that, he would have got Whacked. He wouldn't even be be able to hang out with us. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, we we don't anytime when you're in prison, any any new prison you go into, you got to you got to give your paperwork to your people so they can review your case and and know what you're charged with and if anybody was charged with like anything, you know, sexual crimes or anything like that that you're getting you're getting hit or or Or worse. Hm. Well, Mario Sanchez, man, I appreciate you coming in,

sharing your story. Um, and congratulations for, you know, turning a new leaf with your life because, you know, at some point, you know, and I've seen a lot of these documentaries and done a lot of interviews. It's sort of like you hear these guys say, you know, they get into the 30s and 40s and they're like, "Yo, we're acting like children." >> Yeah. >> In these jail yards kicking and punching each other like we were kids. We're not acting like adults. And at the end of the day, like we have families, we have kids, we

we want to get out and start our life a new, but you're you're stuck in this system where you're constantly being sent out on missions and you're being told to go stab or punch this guy. And you're one of the guys that was doing it. You know, telling your 40 or 50 people to go out and potentially increase their jail time, >> right, >> to do things because you feel that it was necessary to do when ultimately, you know, at this point none of it was necessary, >> right? you know, I mean, do you think

at some point you will see more of a a general truce or do you think that as long as you have these people in cages and people that Historically have not got along with each other, there's always going to be some level of violence and friction and so forth? >> I mean, I think the system in itself is just screwed up. I mean, even when I was doing time years ago, I really I always thought like, well, if they really want to rehabilitate people and and change them and then have them come back to society

and and be good people, they should probably segregate everybody. >> And and if you segregate all the different factions and races, then, you know, you would just have all the whites over here doing their time, there's probably going to be a lot less violence. Um, if you want to put all the Southerners over here, there's probably going to be a lot less violence. And the same for each other. e each other faction, right? That's just my opinion versus putting everybody together, letting everybody fight. You continue This cycle of people just doing bad stuff and then

when they get out, they're they're not really a credit to society. They're they're still like in a violent mindset, an angry mindset. And for for the correctional system, for the CDC, um it's just it's just basically job security. you you keep these people always coming back and until people understand that um people really got to do better. >> Do you believe in the death penalty? >> I do for for sex offenders. >> For sex offenders. >> What about for mass murderers? >> Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Like Yeah, I I agree. >> Timothy McVey. I

I I don't really want him on this planet anymore. >> Yeah. I mean Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, the the World Trade Bombers, like >> I do believe in the death penalty, like these really serious, heinous crimes, these people that go into schools and Shoot up kids. >> Dylan Roof, who shot the black church in the South, like I don't I don't want this guy around anymore. Like, I believe in the death penalty. I do. Now, there is an argument though, and that is, well, every so often they get it wrong, and an innocent

person ends up being put to death. >> But, you know, and and that's the argument for not having it. you know, let's just jail the person Forever. That's, you know, put him on death row, put him on whatever 23-hour lockdown and so forth. But, you know, sometimes it's a hard argument sometimes. >> Yeah. I mean, I I do believe in it for like the really heinous crimes or sex crimes or these people that go in and shoot kids. Yeah. I mean, they're they're no um asset to society. I don't think they should be around. >>

Did you ever deal with like death row Inmates when you were locked up? >> No. >> Or was that always separate? Well, one thing that we we didn't talk about when I was at Mule Creek, um there was a guy there by the name of Tex Watson who is one of Manson's dudes >> and um I mean he already had been in like 30 to 40 years. Um he's old man now and supposedly he's a Christian now. And um you know, you see people like that that you know, you've been in prison 30, 40 years.

Um you know, if if he ever does get out, what is he going to do? >> Yeah. No, I feel you. But most times it seems like the people that do long stretches, they get out and they're okay. They don't really go back because at that point all their friends are dead. Uh they're not getting back into the same system, you know, the same uh routines they were in before. They're just trying to live out the rest of their lives. I mean, I I know people I've interviewed like Chi Ali who went to jail for

murder. He got out and he's been good ever since. You know, >> I think I think a lot of people like even for myself, you you mature. >> Yeah. >> You grow. you evolve. Um, you want to change, you want more for yourself, you want better for yourself, and and hopefully more people can do that. But, um, it's not easy. >> Well, Mario, man, I appreciate you Coming in, and congratulations on your business. It seems like you've had a lot of, uh, success in business, >> which is not easy to do. >> Yeah. No, definitely.

And and one of one more thing, like the whole relentless mindset thing, which >> I'm wearing as well. I'm wearing the shirt as well. >> My my book. So, I wrote a book and it's going to be coming out in a couple of months. Um, it's basically the story of, You know, growing up, getting getting into what I got into, going to prison, and then basically being in corporate America for the last 25 years. And I've kept my my prison life completely private from that world all these years. And now I'm finally talking about it.

>> And I think a lot of people that I work with over the last 25 years are going to flip out. They're gonna flip out when they find out about me because I I've kept this um on the download, right? Yeah, >> but um it's about me just saying people can change, people can grow, people can be become successful. And so that's what my book's about. And it's about just really changing your mindset. >> That's what it is, man. Wish you all the best. >> Thank you, man. Appreciate. Thank you. >> Peace. Speak.