what's up everybody welcome back to another edition of elevate your grind brought to you by the Cannabis lab I am your host Todd Rosales and it is lovely to be here today we have such a great starts to the year the first series of events went off phenomenally we are expanding our territories you will see us in Miami Fort Lauderdale Tampa Orlando and now up in good old Tallahassee Florida that's right capital city we're coming for you if you guys are interested in anything clab please check out join cab. com um or just Google cannabis laab event brights I have a great episode for you today um there are a lot of different alternative techniques out there in cannabis when it comes to Capital raising and financing your company and everything else this is definitely one of the mo the most unique ones that I've come across I'm sure it's a lot more widely available in other Industries but we're always interested to see what's going on here in cannabis so I uh by no means have the ability to really even explain this so much at a high level before I bring him into the show so please welcome today's guest Darren glean the managing director of M MBO Ventures Darren thank you for joining us thank you for having me and I'm excited to uh to give it a shot for your viewers explain how it works absolutely so obviously when when they reached out to me to to you know tell me about you and ask about the show MBO Ventures I assumed you know another investment funding cannabis I'm like I love these conversations I've had them a million times I'm easily able to do this and then they're like oh yeah they're an ESOP shop and I'm like I don't know what that is so you don't mind so I get the general overview it is it's almost like a special vehicle to where you're selling your company to your employees now that sounds like some straight up Robin Hood stuff so can you give us more of a a definitive definition of it yeah it it really is is just another way for a business owner to sell their company you know that's it so back in the in the 60s and 70s there was a whole thing going on of communism versus capitalism really that was going on and so we tried to come up with a way with the United States well how do we make capitalism work it's it's still going on what's the oh yeah yeah how do you make it work it is still going on and it's always going to go on um does it work does capitalism work for the regular normal workers you know what I'm about saying C Communism works that's for sure I'm not but capitalism is difficult when you're a regular worker so in the 70s they came up with this structure they're like all right well in order to get the regular workers to make money how do how do we all make money by ownership we need to own companies we need to own things so this is is a way right to how do we get Workers to own a piece of a company well a great way is to buy it from the actual place where they work well great great idea but employees have no money zero money so the government came up with a way for a business owner to be incentivized to sell to their employees and they came up with a lot of different incentives a lot of different subsid and they keep on coming up with more and more and the more they come up with the more incentives you have to do it the biggest problem with this ESOP structure is that nobody knows what it is it's pure education when people hear about this ESOP they think oh it's some type of 401k something with contributions or something I don't want to hear it it's just not for me they have no idea that it's just a way to sell your company except with these benefits that's all it is a way to sell your company let me get into it quickly um of why people be interested in this so on that notes he said a way to S so one of the things that I I had the thought I was watching the video that you had on your website about a a way to sell the company it's a way to avoid taxes but you said that essentially the the the literal definition of an ESOP is a defined benefits plan now those I'm familiar with and I think if most people if you don't know what a Define benefits plan it's essentially a pension plan right but you said that's not it's different it is that but okay let me explain no it's kind it's kind of like if I if I was describing what your podcast is right now I wouldn't be describing it as well you're using a hypertext link to go onto a Json derivative which you're eventually going to get through the worldwide Network and then get to your audience you're not going to explain it that way you can explain your podcast a way just to talk to people and explain how things are going with an ESOP you are using down the road you are using the structure of a defined uh it's actually a defined contribution plan you're you're using that structure but other than that that's just something that you're using it's a tool to get to where you want to be which is to sell the company to the actual um to the actual employees that's that's pretty much it no so we SE so we sell the company to the employees and then what happens next they come to my house in the middle of the night which p with pitchforks and throw me out like how how how so tell me what are the so right now there you know we're it in infle I mean we're it in very unique point I don't know if it's Unique point in time in history but like outside of cannabis you have the baby Boer generation that has a ton of small businesses that's looking to get out right so people are looking to transition out of businesses they may not have owners for cannabis you have a very similar situations where you have a lot of operators that have been operating you know since legal Inception in their state they've done whatever they can to try to get profitable they haven't been able to raise the amount of money that they need they're probably up to their eyeballs in debt and they're looking for ways to either bring in new capital or hang it up but get something for the hard work that they've had you know I would imagine the guys at the top who haven't been collecting an income that were looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow they're not as still Enchanted as some of the employees might be that were estatic to get into cannabis and estatic to work for that the opportunity for that employee of that company if the guy at the top or the gal at the top wants to get out for them to take someone ownership I imagine that'd be a very popular choice for them so when we look at at the Cannabis industry specifically how where are the opportunities for companies to do this yeah so and those companies that you're describing there's not much of an opportunity and ESOP is really structured it's something where the owner not the employees the owner decides that they're going to do it and it's really two things it's really they do it for the business incentives that they're going to get because the tax incentives are so huge that they are forced they're forced to want to sell to the employees and it costs the employees literally nothing to do it this is the way it works do you know what private Equity is private Equity is a they're Financial buyers right so how does a private Equity Firm buy companies and let's just take a an example of a uh a $5 million company making $5 million a year and the value is say 25 million bucks right that's that's a private Equity deal how does the private Equity Firm buy that for 25 million well here's the secret they're not giving you 25 million what they're doing is this if you're making $5 million a year for 25 million plain vanilla they're going to from their funds money they're going to give you $5 million that's that's what you're getting from the fund then they're going to borrow off of your company's cash flow they go to like JP Morgan and say this company is making $5 million a year lend me $10 million to give them lend me 10 million to give you the 10 million so they lend $10 million off of your company so $5 million comes from me we borrow 10 million off of your company it used to be called The Leverage buyout now you get 10 million so you have 15 million total the last 10 million is what's called an earnout an earnout means that you promised that you going to do all of these returns the next couple of years fantastic reach those levels and you get paid the last $10 million if you don't reach those levels you're not going to paid that last $10 million that's a typical private Equity deal with an ESOP right when the employees that cost the employees nothing it's structured very similarly except there is no equity in the deal so you go out to the same lender and you borrow that same $10 million but instead of having a third party private Equity Firm lever it up the company levers up themselves so the company borrows the same $10 million and that goes to the owner and the other $15 million in this example that would go to the owner is What's called the cellon note that's an IOU from the company back to the owner so that's how they get that $25 million sale again 10 million from the bank and 15 million seller note that $ 25 million goes to the owner that's how the employees pay it doesn't cost the employees anything so normally that $25 million that they're going to be making if it was a private Equity deal they have to pay capital gains tax on that it's very difficult for the owners to not pay capital gains tax extremely hard and capital gains tax across the country is about 30% so on a $25 million deal you owe 7. 5 million to the government in capital gains tax in Florida it's a little bit less but across the board about 7.
5 million well when you sell to the that's right when you sell to the ESOP that 7. 5 million capital gains is deferred you don't have to pay it and if you structure correctly it's deferred forever that's a big deal in every other industry everyone loves that in the cabis space that's great but that's not why we're talking we're talking for another incentive that the government gave which is this this is the cool incentive when you sell 100% of your company to the employees with this ESOP structure it's 100% the company itself runs completely taxfree federal income tax free state income tax free and something called unrelated business income tax taxfree and when you pay no income tax deductions do not matter at all no one cares about deductions because you're not paying any tax so it doesn't matter so with an ESOP you're not evading 28e you're not getting around 280e you're just making 280e irrelevant because the company is still filling out the tax returns and when you fill out the tax returns you're still not taking any deductions but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because you pay zero tax how how does the government allow any kind of company to pay zero tax I mean they don't allow anything to happen without them trying to take tax on it now I mean they hired how many federal agents to try to go after venmo and zel transactions and cryptocurrency and everything else they're quite famously known for taking their piece of the pie so how do they have something within their own tax code that allows someone to not pay tax yeah it's not only in the tax code this was specifically created in 1998 where Congress wanted to come up with a way to incentivize you to sell to your employees so they come up with this idea what if if we make an employee-owned company that's totally tax-free what if we did that will that incentivize you so they literally wrote A bill that says an employee owned company in the ESOP structure pays no tax when it sits inside of a certain structure Bill Clinton signed that into law in 1998 and from 1998 onward a completely tax-free company has been in existence we can do it we've structured in the past 25 years over 400 of these so yes this is put in place by Congress signed in by the president this structure right this structure is so beloved because everyone really wants to help workers Bernie Sanders the you would say he's probably the furthest left senator in the country he loves the whole ESOP structure because of bottom line is these incen incentives are one purpose to give ownership to the employees so that's why he loves it for the huge incentives for the it's lifechanging for the employees on the other side of the spectrum who's the furthest right Senator Mitch McConnell MIT McConnell loves esops because of all the business incentives that it gives you look paying zero federal tax and zero state income tax is pretty amazing he loves that no capital gains tax you great he loves it I mean there's a lot of other benefits I mean it really is something that the left and the right both love and so yes great question um and it is it's crazy but it really is there so let's put a pin in that I want to come back to it how what you know obviously it seems you have a deep Financial background what brought you into this world of esops what helped you find this structure was it a need was it something that you you saw happen like how did you start building a business around this um like I said uh we've been doing this now for about 25 years uh me personally specifically with cannabis I was talking to someone and this is about two years little little less than two years ago and they said to me can you do an ESOP in the Cannabis space and I said you can but why would any owner want to because with an ESOP you can only pay what's called fair market value you can't pay a crazy premium and I said in this space you have companies that are buying of being sold for three four times Revenue like ridiculous stupid numbers I'm like that doesn't make sense you wouldn't be able to do it and then they said yeah and there's also this thing called 280e and then I started to get into 280e and right at that moment I was like oh my God this is unbelievably crazy how this really works for the Cannabis industry because of the 28 and that's how we got into the Cannabis space and this is about two years ago and I've been pitching now for for two years every accounting firm I can speak to every Law Firm I can speak to until they finally say oh my God you really did it of course I did it because I know how it works but we had to explain how these things worked and then in December we closed uh three uh three Deals sus wow yeah dude that I mean that is incredible because the whole industry is doing nothing but trying to figure out how to combat 28 how to get rid of 28 spending tons of money lobbying against it and there is a solution out there so me I'm the owner of a cannabis business I you know we start talking you said paying fair market value you know how do you establ when when I'm going with private Equity or Venture Capital they kind of established the valuation that they're willing to pay and that's how it's set right based on off of either revenue or God forbid profit which doesn't exist too much in this industry but that's kind of how the valuation is set when I'm the owner you know how do I assess fair market value depending on the type of company that I am and why would I what stage of my business would I most likely be in and why would I do this um outside of the fact that I want to take cash out of my business if I'm in this for the Long Haul and I see you know the light at the end of the rainbow that everything's going to fall into place eventually maybe I can sell you know if I'm burner or Caleb counts or somebody that has one of these large National Brands what is the advantage of me doing an ESOP versus stay in the course yeah so let's unpack that um the the valuations how is that created so what happens here is you decide all right let's say cannabis lab you guys are ready you've grown to a decent size now the what's a decent size it's not for a startup only because you have to pay fair market value for the company right if you a startup that has zero income what's that worth it's not worth much so for the owner themselves to sell their company that's very little doesn't make sense for the company and the employees it makes sense always but not for the shareholders the owners doesn't make sense for the owners it makes sense when they're at about $2 million in not Revenue $2 million in net income two million plus and they're growing that's when it makes sense for all these other firms that are trying to get there and they're making $100,000 a year or $300,000 a year no the ESOP structure doesn't make sense it'll be too expensive for them it does start at a higher level like I said at about $2 million $2. 5 million in IAT ibat is the uh the investment banking word for net income before taxes so that's really where it makes sense so it's a higher level and yes there are tons of companies at these levels and they usually have more employees also for it how do we establish the question next one was how do you establish the price for your company the way it works is this the uh employees via the attorneys that are hired get what's called a trustee a trustee represents the employees the trustee has one job in mind to make sure that these employees pay fair market value they cannot pay a premium so in the olden days when the companies were selling a four times Revenue that's not fair market value fair market value is based on what a normal Financial buyer would pay for a company so they can pay down their loans what a private Equity Firm would buy so the fair market value would be negotiated with that trustee so we would come in and we would work with the shareholder and we would work with them and the trustee and try to come up with what true fair market value is and that would be done through a true arms left negotiation just like it was was a private Equity Firm coming in to buy the company when a private Equity Firm comes in to buy the company I say to you look I want to pay for you you know two times Z and then the investment banking firm that you're hiring is trying to pick pick them up in the price just like a negotiation in your buying and selling a house it's the same exact type of structure that you're doing so you're really negotiating um with this trustee and it come up with what fair market value is and fair market value can be anywhere from you know four x four times net income without taxes to six maybe seven wow it all depends on your timing so I go ahead I decide I'm going to sell my sell my company to my employees you told me how I get paid what happens you know with the company the employees how is that structured and then what does the company look like post oh ESOP if you will okay so the next thing is you said why would I as an owner sell today when I'm looking at my next exit which is like Federal legalization comes down the road you know I'm hoping to get bought out by Budweiser down the road I don't want to sell that okay well by selling now to the ESOP you're taking some chips off the table you're are allowing your company to double or triple your cash flow right away because you're not paying taxes which is pretty important that you get to increase your cash flow significantly the owner when they sell it they still get a chunk of stock that they can buy back into the Future something called warrants a warrant allows you to buy back some of your stock at a specific predetermined price so these former shareholders will get warrants to buy back a piece of the company in the future so that way the owners that are selling today will still be able to ride along with their employees into the future now is would that be proportionate to the share that the employees got or would it be proportionate to what they owned prior no it's well owning prior they owned 100% prior now they're selling 100% but they'll get warrants to buy back you know a decent amount of stock into the future okay that's how it would work so um this way they they actually now will continue to manage the company they're still on the board of directors they want to be so they're running the company right they're still managing it who controls these companies it's the board of directors the board of directors governs the company just like it does today so for instance if I have a corporation today I I think I'm the shareholder I'm running it I'm not I it's the board of directors even though I might be the board of directors it's really the board of directors that governs the company and that's the same thing with an ESOP the board of directors will govern that company do they do they typically keep the same board or do they restructure the board with a representative group of employees no typically they keep the same board it might be this that the the uh the um the trustee might say to them okay look as a board you've done pretty well right because it's not like a private Equity coming in that wants to like Shuffle things around when people do the ESOP they've already shown they're making money they're doing well the ESOP trustee they're not in the business of running the company they're not in the business of putting board members on they want to make sure that the company is governed correctly moving forward so normally they're G to say you guys are on the board doing a great job we'd love you to stay on the board in two years what we'd like is maybe get an independent director that you choose that'll now be on the board but there's no reason again it's not it's not like a a private Equity Firm where I'm going to come in and totally rejigger up your company the owners will be continuing to be on that board and if they want to continue managing they'll manage it and that's everyone really wants interesting so now the the the owner's gotten paid the structure is in place how are the the employees benefit is it certain employees do they have to hit a certain level is there a certain tenure associated with it like I just got hired two weeks ago and they they do this am I am I eligible as a part owner of the company yeah so let's just say there's a hundred let's say there's 100 employees in the company I was gonna throw out a number but I didn't know where to go yeah I mean let's say there's 100 employees and and you're making let's say 50 Grand and I make a 100 Grand well the way we the way we divvy up the pot for the employees is it's called non-discriminatory and it's based only on salary so if you make 50 Grand a year and I make 100 Grand a year I'm going to get twice as much stock as you if I make 150 and you make 50 I get three times as much stock and it's capped out I think like 350 is the max where you do it the way you get stock the way I get Stock Investing usually is done over a let's say fiveyear period so if I've been in the company for a year I get 20% two years 40 60 80 100 so if you just started today and I started last year and let's say the ESOP is already a year old when you start it's a year old so I get 20% you just started yesterday you're only getting one day wor so you're not getting any vesting interesting you have to be there for one full year to vest your 20% and then the stock is allocated over a longer period of time to the employees the stock can be um the stock is allocated over let's say 20 25 years that means that as more and more people start working they also get a piece of the puzzle a piece of the pie and the people that are staying there longest keep getting more and more so silly question on the salary note you know I come from a from the world of it resellers I work for a very large 150 employees in $120 million a year you know we had our salespeople their their salaries were 50 60 70 grand a year but their income was north of $600,000 a year they were also the lifeblood of the company because we're a reseller you know in an ESOP situation I mean is there is that kind of by the book how it goes or does the owner kind of say like hey let's keep their Commissions in this for salary to give them a bigger piece of the pie how do how do you deal with that yeah so their salaries and the bonuses are still there right but remember it's cap it's capped at 350 so if one of what if a sales gu is making 350,000 and another sales gu is making 700,000 they both get 350 000 worth in terms of you know if I was going to Value how much stock it is that's the that's the cap now for key key employees go ahead no go go on okay I was say for key employees there's other things to do to give them a little bit extra there's something called SARS which is a shareholder appreciation right and so they can get they at that point we say the company's valued do the eso let's say you can make it easy numbers company's valued at $10 million what we say to these for the shareholder appreciation rights is we're going to give 10% anything above $10 million if we sell it in let's say 10 we do a valuation seven years from now anything above $10 million you guys Canna get 10% of it so now if that $10 million company is valued at $100 million they look at the difference 100 minus 10 that's 90 million and then they get 10% of that so they get 10 million they would get $9 million that's how you would give more to your key employees without digging into the actual ESOP the ESOP still gets what they get and they would still get their ESOP shares this is very fascinating as far as like the employees in ESOP that have ownership you know what are some of the other advantages are there voting rights is there any saying the control of the company like you know what what what are and and are there any large famous examples of this that you can share because I can't I don't know any off the top of my head and I'd love to understand if there's a major company that's right in front of my face Publix public supermarket is right in front of your face yeah it is actually there today yeah go in tomorrow and look at around and see some of the older people that have been there for a while they're millionaires they are millionaires I'm not kidding the guys at the checkout counter the man who's actually you know doing your uh cash register yeah yeah millionaire they've done super well yeah so Publix is a great example in Florida of uh the ESOP structure so when did do you know when they did their ESOP um I don't know I can I could just throw out a number you know 20 years ago but I'm not really sure I'm just thinking of all my friends that have worked there over the years obviously growing up in Florida had a good amount of them yeah but if they left then they wouldn't invested right I mean the idea here is if you had friends that worked there for a couple years yeah they worked there was great probably got very little but again it's the long the more you the long longer you stay the more you get Now with an ESOP right it's a it's really now this is where the when you call from the very very beginning you said oh it's a contribution plan or whatever it is yeah this is where it comes in it uses the pension plan piece now so the individuals it's not a profit sharing plan they get the money when they retire that's when everybody actually gets the money unless like in the Cannabis world where you're very likely to sell the company let's say 10 years down the road upon Federal legalization that's what everyone is looking at then everyone vests automatically and everyone gets their money as soon as it happens meaning this we s we bought a company sold Esa for 10 million bucks today and then 10 years down the road Federal legalization occurs budwiser comes in and offers a $100 million to the company great we sell it every employee vests automatically the100 million comes in and then the100 million is split up in into every employes account every employee based on the shares that they have will get their money they do not pay tax on that until they actually take the money out of their uh their Ira or whatever pension plan they have at the time so that's how they get their money if the company is not sold when they retire that's when they get their money that is super intriguing so let me ask the question of the details of this so say I started a company we're doing very well um I come across this structure it's intriguing to me do I have to sell I I'm 100% majority shareholder you know I Own 100% of my company can I sell half the company to my employees and hold on to half or is it an All or Nothing type scenario yeah you could sell 1% you could sell 2% the minimum the minimum is about 30% in order remember I said to you you defer your capital gains tax yeah yeah so capital gains tax is something that you sell if you have a business you have a house you pay capital gains another type of tax you pay so the Govern govern says if you sell at least 30% then you can defer your capital gains so if the company is worth $100 million and you sold 29% to the ESOP for 29 million you have to then pay 10 million in capital gains tax if you sell 30% for 30 million you can't you can defer those capital gains so there's very few people very few companies that will ever go below 30% but yes you sell 30% how long is the deferment for it's for as so here's the catch with the deferment do you know what a 1031 is in real estate by any chance it doesn't matter not very familiar no yeah yeah don't worry uh the way it works is this the government says this all right you just sold your company for $100 million we'll allow you to defer your capital gains tax forever as long as you do this as long as you reinvest that hundred million into another us-based operating company what does that mean that means that you can take the $100 million that you just sold it for and you can buy stocks you can buy Google you can buy Apple you can buy the S&P 500 you can buy bonds um you can buy like a general electric floating rate note you can as long as you're buying that's what's called a a us-based operating company fantastic So when you buy bonds for instance you don't it it's such Tak $100 million sale you don't have to put a100 million down to buy the bonds you can actually put 10% to buy the bots so you put $10 million down and buy a $100 million Bond more in reality if it's a $10 million company you sell for 10 million bucks you put a million dollars down and buy the $10 million worth of these bonds and these bonds are actually called floating rate notes which means you can buy a bond that it's like a 40-year term so as long as you hold on to that 40-year Bond you don't pay your capital gains tax Interesting Man that is crazy so with this being so great because you get your money you defer your taxes your company doesn't have to taxes why are more people not doing this why isn't everyone doing it I'll tell you exactly why it even sounds a great way to recruit employees too yeah if you go back to the very very very beginning of our conversation the very very beginning conversation you said to me isn't this some type of qualified defined benefit plan you said it right because somewhere you you Googled you looked and I'm like no it's that's really the intricacy of how it works that's the biggest problem because no one really knows what this thing is and if you start googling it you see oh oh you know what this if you Google it oh in ESOP is an IRC section 401a defined contribution plan that's also a stock bonus plan money purchase plan based on IRC section 4975 E8 and I'm not even kidding when I use those codes I don't know what that means I don't even know what I just said to you I just memorized it I mean I have no idea what that means and nobody does so the biggest problem we have is that nobody knows what this is so it's all education that's why I need to get in front of people and they explain it and when I explain to people I explain to them based on what their case is yeah that's it it's just pure education you're right why doesn't and I get this all the time if this is so great first of all I don't believe it um it sounds too good to be true and why has nobody ever told me about this yeah if you speak to any Investment Banking firm any investment management firm they won't know what this is they just won't what this is what they'll tell you oh yeah I've heard of it it's it's I heard it's it's good for some companies you know it's some type of 401K pension plan that's not I don't know it's not for you because the the entire United States Community for accounting firms valuation firms law firms Investment Banking firms Banks is all geared towards private Equity they're not geared towards employee ownership via this ESOP structure that's not what they're Geared for that's just not it so hence you don't know about it no one knows about it and that's why unless we're actually getting in front of people and explaining to them they're not doing it and even with cannabis being even with cannabis being schedule one you know and then and the needing special licenses and everything else there's no you can still do it with cannabis companies yeah because this is the this is why here's the technical in the weeds thing of why it can work with here's the in the weeds you structure this thing inside of us called an S corporation right that's the type of company an S corporation well every S corporation in the United States of America everyone fills out when they file the taxes they fill out it's called an 1120s it's a tax form everyone fills it out when you fill out that form you follow the rule no deduction so you do you take no deductions you follow 28 take to the T the next step in an S Corporation after you fill out that form is to send out k1s to all of the shareholders distribution of profits that's what it P oness within ESOP there's one shareholder which is the Employee Stock ownership trust all of the employees are beneficiaries of the trust they're not shareholders and this is created by Congress on purpose so the Employee Stock ownership trust that's the special trust that pays no income taxes pays no unrelated business income tax no state income tax so when this tax exempt entity receives the K1 the account accountant looks at it very nice it all works they check it off and they file it away because they don't pay tax that's how it works you're not doing anything against any rules you're following all the rules to the te you know I was watching a YouTube video that talked about the structure of Rolex and like even though this may not be how it's structured it's very it just seems very similar ways to avoid paying taxes through different structures and ownership models and everything else and I mean if they're out there we we should be taking advantage of it they're taking advantage of us from a tax standpoint you know the tax code is fairly huge and if you have you can pay hundreds of millions of dollars in fees like apple does right and meta does and I guess Rolex yeah there's different you got to look at the rules you got to just follow the law there's a lot of stuff out there with an ESOP it's not so complicated it's something that it's not mistakes I mean a lot of these companies are saying oh this is a mistake and this says this and this says that and hence we can take this type of deduction with an ESOP it's literally put in place by Congress so there is no maybe this works this 100% absolutely Works have you guys done any in cannabis yet we have done uh we closed three cannabis deals in December those are the first three in Nation yeah first three in the nation um and we have about six that are signed up and ready to go for 2024 and that's before now I'm trying to really pitch it very cool man well how do we get more people to you how do we get you in front of more people educate them on uh on esops well you know I don't know hopefully people through this podcast um you know will contact me through my website through Linkedin they can email me and I'll just go through and I'll explain to everybody that's all I do is I educate and I just battle like I've spoken to hundreds of attorneys I've been in a room one time with 30 attorneys about this specific structure and I was pounded on until the very end which is it's like wow yeah this literally works this literally Works um so if you get my email address out to people it'd be great yeah drop give the website give the email all the plugs anywhere anyone can contact you yeah so it's uh it's D glean if I don't know if you can see my name there but it's D glean at mov ventures.
com like MBO is management buyou mov ventures. com um go to my website www. m ventures.
com go to me on LinkedIn Darren gleeman Linkin with me you can link in message there with me too um and I'll call you and we'll set something up well well Darren I appreciate you coming on and educating us about this I imagine in this near future you're going to be one of the most popular people in the industry my friend I hope so I hope so been working hard thank thank you for joining us all right thank you appreciate it absolutely and thank you to everybody at home for watching of course if you missed any part of this interview you can always check it out and find it at youtube. com/ elevate your grind for all things cannabis lab check out join cab.
