Realtors: This is the dark side of success no one talks about

All right so this will probably be one of the most important uh interviews that I've ever released from an agent that uh I've been coaching now for a couple of years and the reason I say that is this in this conversation you're going to hear us talk about uh his his rise and his fall we're going to talk about how he was having 50 60 $70,000 income months and then what happened when he reached the top that Made him lose it all and so it's it's amazing what happens to some people in this industry when

they they go through all that it takes to to win at the highest level and then what it looks like at the top and sometimes uh what the fall looks like as a result and so uh this will be a really really important I think interview for you to watch you'll learn a lot and then you'll learn about how he's making his comeback and so I think there's a lot to take From this message and uh if you haven't done so already I'm going to put a link in the description with my brand new script

book so if you're looking for scripts and conversations to generate high quality listing appointments you can download your copy for free what year was that when you and I first started working together end of 2019 beginning of 21 got it that range I still have texts from Ron from back then actually when I was talking to Ron and When did you get that the fsbo domination course what year was that 2018 it it was somewhere in 2019 because that's about when I got my license yeah that's awesome so you and I have done this in

a couple of times and so for those of you that are here in the live audience I think what you are going to experience is some real Talk number one some number two a real behind the scenes look into um I don't know how Mike you would say it I'll just Say the rise and potential fall of real estate agent success and so Mike's just got really the roller coaster right he has lived great UPS to where he has had I don't know we were talking about it 50 60 $70,000 income months and also some

low lows and so we're going to talk about all of that so I think a good place to to to start if you just just give like I don't know 30 60 90 second overview of your career so far and uh then we'll get into the weeds of like The the the the highs and lows awesome yeah um well I apologize every one if my throat feels a little scratchy allergies I'm sure everybody's dealt with that at one point or another but now my my career I've been doing this geez um we're going on five

years now and I've been with Brandon for going on four we were just talking about I joined somewhere in 2019 is when I got the first fsbo course my first year I did pretty well I Joined on a team I think I did 180 80,000 in my first year just with the fsbo domination course second year I did even better second year honestly I did worse last year which we'll get into in a second like Brandon talked about I did worse last year than I did my second year in the business because in 2020 or

2021 I'm drawing a blank on exactly but semantics doesn't matter I did like 245,000 and that was my first year coaching with Brandon and like he said um I I I got all the way up I thought I was too big to fail I thought oh you know stuff's going to happen started taking my foot off the pedal stopped doing the things that got me there and honestly like I was riding you know the roller coaster up high and because the actions this delayed effect a year later I'm sitting there like whoa where didd all

my business go um and leading to that I mean I still did good last Year I did like 180,000 but 180,000 down from 245 feels like a lot to me so I feel like I'm broke yeah and so let's let's really talk that through so I want to talk about the rise first all right and so what are the things that you've done that you did that help you build you know a quarter million dollar income in a very very short amount of time um I mean you grew that pretty quickly we're talking about within

a year and a half or two years of Even being licensed to a quar million doll income um is a big deal and so what did you do like when it came to lead generation well I remember it vividly cuz I started on a team and I remember that team leader like I found you on YouTube and I was following the things you were doing on YouTube I even bought your course and I'm out there calling fsbos and expired mostly fsbos I loved fsbos and um my team leader was saying that Stuff doesn't work cold

callings dead um here have some Facebook leads go call them and I'm like I don't want to do that so one day I'm sitting there and I go you know what I'm done I'm leaving and I left I went solo and I'm sitting there like crap what did I do so I had nothing but time and the phone so I just called fsbos like crazy and at first I was like uhoh I made a mistake because nothing was happening immediately but I just blindly followed the system that Brandon had laid out cuz I'm like well

if it worked for Brandon and hundreds of others it's going to work for me next thing I knew all those fsos just started to pop and I was having I was taking five six seven I I took like 10 listings in a month at like consistently at the high of my business and I don't know I it it all culminated to 20 23 was my best year and there's actually a video about a year ago today um where I was sitting here and Brandon's like You're on track to do 50 50 deals this year and

I'm like yeah I know and I'm all excited what actually happened and I'm going to be fully transparent because I was on track to do it I won the prospecting challenge I was feeling good and I let myself the alarm would go off and I'd let myself uh stay in bed oh it's fine I got deals coming in um I stopped working out I I like myself just go you quit coaching yeah I left the coaching group Too like keep going yeah we're going to talk about it and you're an open book and thanks for

the transparency go ahead keep going 100% like I just stopped doing the things that got me there and um you know and all those deals were front loaded the first six months amazing the next six months I mean I went from clo have taken like five six listings a month in the beginning on track to do 50 to ones and twos and uh yeah I contribute that a lot to a lot of Mistakes I made but yeah we'll talk about learn yeah you live and you learn right the learning truly is the in in the

mistakes that we make right and so go going back to really quick and I think this will resonate with a lot of agents that um it is hard for them to do what it is that I ask them to do and the reason for that is they have everybody including a lot of times their broker I mean this person that they see every day telling them what what do you you doing On the phones like go do you know social media and go do all these other things and so they have this this thing in

their mind they're like is is is what Brandon's asking me to do is it actually going to work I've got all these people telling me dude that don't what are you doing um first off why do you believe that leaders we'll call them leaders people with the title in this business tell people not to proactively reach out to homeowners looking to serve them why Do you think they tell agents that that is a great question um for me when I was on the team in the brokage I was with I was at a brick and

borner brokerage and they were getting sued for that kind of stuff so I think that's a big reason also they just don't know what to do they're used to this model of stack them up we make money off of headcount and so much so I actually got sick of it because I was having success but it was funny I'd walk in and people Would glare at me they're that's the weirdo he calls fbos anded so I actually left the brick and morar I'm in like a cloudbased brokerage I don't see anyone besides this community yeah

so that's interesting yeah I think and you're right because environment is so important but if you're in an environment where you're looked at as the weirdo like oh that's that person like to your point they he he cold calls ew you know I'll tell you why even if I Were to interview the live audience right now the vast majority of Real Estate agent business comes from the people that they know now the problem with that is not scalable right I'm talking about when I talk about the vast majority I'm talking about people that are doing

three four five deals a year right those deals are just coming as a way of being lucky being in the right place at the right time when Uncle Bob needed to sell or little cousin Johnny Wanted to got married and he wanted to buy a new house with his wife that's the that's 90% of the homes that are being sold it's it's through that channel we have 1.5 million people that are licensed and they're in the right place at the right time most people get into coaching to say well I can't scale that so I

got to look for a way to generate business and so the Brokers to your point it's recruit recruit recruit recruit recruit recruit recruit and if We got a lot of agents that that sell to their friends and family we'll be just fine and so that's why most brokerages have like one two 3% of their agents that are the top top top top producers and what do we know about all of them they're all being coached and they're all outbound Le generation yep yep and um that that's kind of where I was I Rose to the

top of the board I was getting the plaques everybody's like oh how how do you do it and I would tell Them nobody wanted to do it that's right um and I just left I was like all right peace and everybody's like you're crazy why would you do that I'm like that's what you told me when I was calling fsbos so I must be doing the right thing yeah and I and I went through the same experience and then I will'll move on to get into the Tactical piece of this so the audience can get

some takeaways I went the same thing I started winning every award at my brokerage I was the Top listing agent in the market etc etc and then everybody was how do you do it how do you do it how do you do it I said I promise you don't want to see this like you don't want it's like it's like somebody going up to somebody who's in really really good shape and saying well how did you do it I want to look like you I want to feel like you no you don't no you don't

you say you want to wake up at 4:00 a.m. to go you don't want to wake up at 4 a.m. you don't want to eat 200 grams of protein 2,000 calories a day you don't want to work out you you you say you want it but when it comes to actually time to do the thing huge huge disconnect our whole industry is based on that I want to make a lot of money no you you everybody does that's ambition but when it comes time to actually do the things that's required to make a lot of

money everybody disappears everyone goes into the witness protection program and they're hiding in full transparency I fell into that even even the people who have successfully done it h have those moments just to I want to throw that out there in case feeling like I felt impostor syndrome like oh well I was doing this like why do I feel this way I'm not one of those people everybody does it yeah I bet Brandon even felt that way at one point absolutely well I felt what you felt when I prospected for 10 years in a row

I'm like do I have to keep doing This you know when when can I stop doing this you know it's like well never you never stop doing it there is no end this is what you this is the business that we're in is talking to people and so all right so so you build this business through fsbos um and and then you have your best year in 2023 or the first six months of that what what other lead sources were you working well the the first six month it was 20 2 whatever year it was

I think I think it was 24 where it fell 23 was the year before that that was doing amazing yeah so so let's talk about that first I don't want to talk about the fall yet let's talk about so what other lead sources were you working cuz at the time you were also like the 50 contacts a day guy that's what you were known for that was your brand it was like it wasn't all 50 fsbos a day that you were calling was it um most of it would be fsbos when I'd Run out of

new and old fsbos I would probably be at like 2530 because I was the guy who was sitting there calling fsbos six seven eight times a day where they'd pick up and be like what the hell do you want part of my French um then turn to expired when fsos stopped becoming a thing um and then it would just be honestly well I suck at followup I still suck at followup and something I learned is that I was very something I learned in this crash which we'll get to In a second is I was very

very churn and burn um which is where I need to correct I think that's what made me feel burnt out but um honestly like if I'd run out of you never run out of leads I mean you just pull pull up a likely to list an absente owner list you just start calling yeah I would go until my lead sheet was full that was it and sometimes I would be here like during the prospecting challenge I did 12 13-hour days where I Was doing nothing like I forgot to eat I was just sitting at this

desk calling because I'm like I'm going to win this thing win this thing yeah so that's great that's not healthy I found out yeah and so um so I want to talk about the the like the transactional model and and what you learned there because going back to the burnout piece which is part of the Fall I think if you are build this thing right and you're building every if you Build it in a way that every client becomes more clients you're taking care of the clients and you're actually building a database and a pipeline

that yes you still have to talk to people 5 10 20 years into your career but the who changes that's what makes it um different right so like if I do 20 contacts a day and I told you this before you've heard me say this but for the audience I never have to call it fsbo or expired again the 20 people I'm Talking to is all past clients all referral Partners all uh people like that so those conversations are very enjoyable the conversions are very high there so the work doesn't stop it's just the enjoyment

Factor increases um and the resentment starts to go away so so in that conversion process talk to us a little bit about the process of conversion so you would call these people um what model did you follow were you setting preview appointments and Then following up were you going right for the listing appointment like what was it well when I first started I did the preview appointment um if you're new in this industry I I highly recommend it that model works really well eventually you become like I don't have time for these so being honest

and something I need to I'm still working on is because I found out I was very transactional even the clients I sold three four years ago I've Been trying to get in touch with and they'd be like I'd be like hey it's Mike who wow I sold your house three years ago um oh yeah you're that guy so I was very even to the conversion process um to your point which I is where you're steering me apologies goes off track a little bit sure I was very first call appointment or never talk to you again

and they went on that for years and then I'd sell them and half the time it would be great yeah we'll stay in touch Awesome never talk to him again the other half the time it's we're at each other's throat and I'm like I'm never talking to you again um so I just fell in the cycle and because business was working I kept going now I'm finding that the opposite yeah like so you got really good at what we call phase one prospecting right call one person have one conversation and whatever comes from that one

conversation if I set the appointment I'll go on that appointment I'll fight like hell to get the listing whatever I got to do fight tooth and nail to get that thing um but then to your point you're learning now phase two means okay you've you've never built a pipeline and so you've never got to experience the compounding effect of all the work you've been doing over the last 5 years because your business could look very very different right now and that's what you're getting to yep yeah exactly I'm I'm learning because when I joined I

was young and hungry and I just wanted to go make money now now I'm learning I have to build money now and for the future um me I just need to hit I did the the crash it was just an unhealthy mindset and the Crash was a cause of me needing to hit reset on it and now I feel like I'm at a much much much better spot in my industry in my in my business rather um to where I mean I've probably gone through Your course probably dozens of times now I'm going through it

again I'm back at the very beginning doing the mindset thing um you're not it doesn't matter if you're brand new or you've been in this industry for 5 6 20 30 years that that stuff is super helpful so anybody go through the mindset stuff again that stuff you need to get that down and I thought I had it down yeah I thought I was like the best of the best I found out I'm like I'm I'm way down here still Yeah so let's talk about the fall and then we'll talk about like what you're doing

to to build it back up so yeah I think it's really it's it's actually unfortunately it happens all too often where you you kind of go through a lot in building this business and you start to get good at conversion you start to get good at taking listings and then to your point it's really a matter of uh first not understanding that the 90day rule is happening that you just don't Know it and so if you're consistent the way you were for like two years straight you've got so much momentum that allowed you to start

listing four five 6 8 10 homes every month and when you took your foot off the gas the same way it didn't happen immediately is the same way it doesn't happen when you take your foot off so you stopped prospecting and uh because you kind of thought I made it now I'm good now I'm I'm making a lot of money right you're making a lot of money Um and so you got really complacent you got really comfortable and it took a while for you to notice and how long did it take you to notice until

things started to dry up you said what what did it was it about 6 months yeah it was about it was it was probably even closer to three months which is funny because that's exactly 90 days I went on I had that best month of my life and I said my wife let's go on vacation so we went on vacation for like 30 days I came back wow start was still closing deals I'm like this is probably fine another 30 days went by it started did the slow and I'm like oh well I'll start prospecting

but I wasn't doing 50 60 contacts I was doing 10 15 and even that I wasn't waking up every day and doing it at the same time just when I felt like it and all of a sudden I'm like wait a second nothing I have nothing there's nothing on the market I have no actives what what's Going on like so so it happened pretty quick so within 90 days you had your best month in the business which you and I are forgetting what that was I don't know I think it was 70 grand or something

you made in a month 60 Grand I don't know 50 Grand it 12 I I mostly track my business off unit so it was like 12 closings in one month whatever that would add to GCI probably like 75,000 okay fair enough and then you Have your best month ever and like so many people do is like okay I'm GNA stop doing all those things you took a month vacation is that what you said something like that yeah I I me and my wife we went to California where she's from I live on the east coast

yeah went out there for a week came back went somewhere else for a week came back went somewhere else for a week we just kept going yeah I'm like we got all the money in the world I cracked the code I have a Money tree um and it took a lot I'm still working on it but there's somebody that like I'm learning a lot and it's funny because I was recently talking to this kid he actually just joined the community um a I'm going to butcher his name Antony I think is his name shout out

to you I was talking to him and he's brand new in the industry 19 years old reminded me a lot of me when I started and he's like telling me like oh I look up to you and I'm like trust me I'm Nobody you want to look up to and it's like I remember being there looking up to like the people that where I'm at and like I'm looking back like like yeah it's like I wonder where those people are cuz some of them aren't even in the industry anymore and it's it's just crazy like

to think like the the people you think are so far ahead of you aren't really like so true but like looking at him I'm like it it kind of like he helped change my mindset a little bit Even this was only two weeks ago so like I'm still working on it what that means just for everybody's watching is what he's trying to say Mike I think what you're trying to say is that there there really really really really isn't this magic secret sauce that everybody that's on their way up thinks that there is they think

the Mike smutz who again $775,000 a month he must know something I don't know there must be a secret I'm telling you there's got to be a secret To this what you're saying to everybody here is there is no secret you're struggling to wake up to make those calls every day just like everybody else and the ones who win it's just a simple simple thing if there was any secret it's this it's the seword it's consistency that is the ultimate competitive advantage in this business those agents that are consistent win at the high at the

highest level and the rest of the 99% that aren't consistent Struggle their whole career well like I told him I actually look up to him if there's any Secret Sauce which Brandon said there isn't I think he has it more than I do L and this is why I started looking up to him cuz he was hungry ready to go willing to do whatever it took and I'm like I lost that how do I get that back so like it's funny CU he was like excited to meet me but like I'm learning more from him

than he probably is learning from me which is crazy so I Tell all these stories right so I want your your take on this I tell the story about the the the thermostat right the comfort zone you've heard me talk about that you've heard me talk about the pain pendulum now I want you you've been on both sides of it right so what happens to most people is when they start earning a lot more money than they actually need they actually stop doing the painful thing to your point this is exactly what this is your

story so far Is you started making a ton of cash and it's like oh my God you even told your wife like I got so much money I don't even know what to do with all this money and so you went on a sabatical for a month and that's because right you you weren't you're not used to it wasn't a standard for you to to operate and to earn that level of income and so you weren't you weren't emotionally um mature enough to keep that momentum of income going because Once you got it's like people

that win the lottery I don't know what the statistic is but the vast majority of them go broke because they don't have the emotional maturity to handle all of the money the same thing happens with Realtors is they come in this IND industry never earning that much money they have a 40 ous a month cuz they sold four houses it's like I'm rich never seen that much money in my life never seen that much money in my life and then They stop working and then they just ride this vicious vicious roller coaster so now this

time around kind of like your second uh shot at this talk to us like how are you being consistent what is your mindset uh what are you telling yourself on a daily basis to get yourself up and keep going because you're getting up every day at 4 a.m. yeah yes yes and not is consist assist as I want to be I want to I want to sit here on some metaphorical high horse and Tell you I'm so great yeah waking up at 4:00 a.m. every day there's been days I've missed in fact um even this

morning alarm went off at 4:00 I press snooze till 4:30 because I'm like I don't feel so good let me sleep in an extra 30 minutes um so it's been a struggle but again I'm going through so let me let me pause let me answer this a different way yeah I am when I got to the high I thought I knew better than everyone even probably No offense Brandon absolutely I was like totally you know I am doing so good I know everything I need to know I don't need coaching I don't need support systems

I got this and I learned the hard way yeah I do so I hit Refresh on everything thing I'm trying to take myself back to like the new me like that like that's why I brought up the Antony like I respect the crap out of that kid because he's got the drive I think he's goingon To succeed I'm trying to put myself back in his shoes so I'm hitting refresh I'm letting go of all my preconceived notions let's say and I'm just putting my blind faith into Brandon and his systems again because that's what got

me there to succeed so again I went through the mindset course I'm connecting more with the community and building that support system because I think a lot of the crash had to do With well me thinking I knew better but because I knew better I pulled away from from everybody and when you're alone in your own bubble your mind just does this big circle and it's just hard I mean no one can pull you out of it like I still had friends like like Roos like I talk to every day and he was trying he's

like dude I don't know what I can do to help you and I'm like you can't I'm I'm sorry like I just had to pull myself out like Yeah nobody nobody's going to do it for you so it's just I don't know that realization the first step of recovery is realization I hit reset went through the mindset course again with just a blank slate and it I don't know I don't know how to say it's working I found my y again I feel better started working out again and eating better I'm sorry if I got

a little off Topic but no no no it's just an exact answer this is what we're talking about everyone wants to like what's the secret tactic or or or strategy or technique you you guys it's not that it's what we're talking about right now that will make the difference whether or not you win or not because ego ego ego is the enemy ego is the enemy and my man oh man egos in this business are like everywhere right everybody has everybody knows everything it's like well if you Know so much like can you show me

your bank account you know what I mean it's like ego is the enemy and so first off it's being self-aware um and then the other thing you talked about which I wrote down which is the importance of environment you cannot succeed on your own that's why it's like plug into this community that's why the prospecting challenges every month are so important this where you're going to meet everybody we've got one coming in two Weeks right and you what's that and Mike's probably going to win it Mike probably will win it you know but I'm telling

you the environment that you m Mike's talking about is is so so so critical so what is your day so what is your 2025 goal we'll call this like your comeback campaign so what does 2025 goal look like for you oh I'm starting behind the eight ball but I'm I'm I'm actually doing it this year I'm closing 50 no matter what come hell high water I love That I'm making up for this the failure yeah that's awesome so 50 deals in your Market is worth how much an income uh I did the math I think

it's like 465 inci got it okay and then how are we going to do this let's give the people some tactical takeaways so let's just we'll kind of bullet it down and then we'll open this up for Q&A you guys can ask Mike anything you want all right so uh now what does your lead generation strategy look like in 2025 what sources Of business business are you going after well I leaned too heavily on instant gratification right I looked at um expired and fsbos because and I was just what can I get a listening today

so I'm still going to do those don't get me wrong but it's I actually am breaking up and I took this from I forget some Monday call I went back and watched a bunch of them from you and you were talking about the you were Whoever you're talking to you're saying 10 10 and 10 10 well I'm Ian and Taylor Ian and Taylor yep they they to get 53 a day and so we're breaking it up yep keep going yeah so I'm doing that um I'm and I'm focusing half of my stuff now well not

half I actually broke it up in the thirds a third is bottom of funnel business a third is that middle and a third's like top of the funnel and I'm just I'm I'm diversifying so that I'm eting myself Now but in the future as well all right so how many contacts per day does the business plan say we need uh right now it's a 60 because I'm using default conversions because I want I'm I'm Legit hitting restart like I'm look my old conversions I had high conversions and even during the restart like I can set

appointments converting them on listings is pretty pretty difficult nowadays for me for some reason yeah yeah yeah and we'll talk About that so so 60 contacts a day you're splitting up into third expired fsbos what's the middle of funnel uh data source uh mostly followup database um referral Partners crap I have this written down somewhere I should have before this that's good what kind of referral Partners I'm just GNA go rapid fire you're good yeah keep going um uh lenders um divorce Attorneys uh builders just anything like that cool and then and then top of

funnel what are you working on absentee owners Circle prospecting um I've been getting into absentees uh that that kind of stuff all right mostly likely the list I'm I'm falling in love with likely the list dialing it's so much nicer than this expired game I've been playing for years that's right I've been trying to tell everybody to get wean them off this Addiction uh but hopefully you're taking me up on it I'll tell you that the highest lead converting thing right now even with with people even with isas calling that have no experience is the

downsizer list we just reconfirm that again in a conversation so for everybody out there that wants to do some top of funnel uh lead generation with no competition the likely to list or downsizer specifically the the the the people of retire retirement age that List converts the highest so that has a similar conversion like 10% contact to lead which is really high okay so then then what are you now going this phase two uh lead followup walk us through what that looks like for you moving forward well I had this complicated system I was automating

so much and I'm like I'm I'm like and I'm barely calling them and I'm like I literally I sorry I literally stripped it back to the basics I went with the folder system Except I did it in followup boss so I just have a smart list that says you know that with a stage that says hot warm nurture and then with the nurture I have a month tag and then I just have a smart list that bases it off of that stage and then have I talked to them in the last however long you know

last week last day whatever that way like if I call somebody on the warmland I didn't talk to him that week I can call him Again later in the week yeah and I would just and I would just good I'm glad you said literally just that because all that other stuff and I've said this for long time it's the calling that gets the conversion all the other stuff you know it helps but it's like if it's that's the 20 the 80 right the the the the the 80% of the the conversion is going to be

in a voice too conversation that everyone's looking to get out of you can't automate lead followup all right Now let talk to us about uh the presentation really quick and then we'll open this up for Q&A so I know you're saying that this is still one of your biggest challenges have you gone through the new listing presentation training and uh starting to implement some of that stuff I've gone through it two or three times now and every time I watch it I'm like I got this down and then I go and do it like I

did one yesterday it was on Zoom I have the recording of it And I watched it back I'm like that was supposed to be 45 minutes why is that 2 hours and I'm rewatching it and I'm like I have the script next to me I'm like I thought it was on script whoa I went way off like the new presentation is powerful I love the new presentation I'm just I don't I can't I don't have an answer of why I'm just I can't internalize it correctly I'm still like leaning on the old presentation which is

good but Because I don't have it down packed with the old presentation I was and again I was calling mostly expired and fos so my conversion was probably like 75% met to taken I'm probably down to like 40% right now and I'm that's the thing I know because I can call and I can set appointments like crazy it's converting them is my struggle right now and I know that's where I need to focus an old me would be like ah whatever the new me realized is that's the part where Where the rubber meets the road

right right it's so true now just to be fair to yourself though the 60% that you're not converting now is that knows forever or is that just because some of these appointments aren't ready to list yet now there so I words let me let me ask you a better question the appointments you're going on nowadays how would you classify those would you classify those as a QA right a qualified listing appointment or Are they more of a they are yeah yeah they're um I'm losing them nine times out of 10 I'm losing them to somebody

who will cut their commission oh good yeah or is lying about the price which is why I know it's the presentation and my method of presenting it is yeah because we take care of that now in the new presentation we take care of all of that right up front right and so we make all of those things are a huge red flag okay yep that's great that'll be really Fun for us to work on uh you and I this year really really fun and yes email me that uh listing presentation recording and let's break one

of those down on Friday that's going to help everybody let's let's see it it's gonna be cringy as hell to go through but it's part of my French but that's right I'm not looking forward to that which means I have to do it all right you have to do it I mean that's to your point that's where the rubber meets the road it Doesn't matter how what what you're doing with lead generation once you get on a listing appointment like your ability to present with confidence and conviction will determine to which extent you're going to

succeed I mean so it's the whole thing I mean I thought about I'm not doing this to No One freak out but I thought about just like erasing everything I do and focusing 100% on just listing presentation skill I think that's the most important piece And that's the piece I ignored for so long do you know when I fun fact and and I'm I'm sorry I'll like last thing I'll say and then and then I'll stop going off topic for the longest time I didn't even bring a listing presentation there was nothing I would show

up with comps and I'd sit there and I just talk to them that's the way I was taught before I met you guys yeah totally and that's how most agents do it I mean when I meet most agents and I ask okay walk me Through your listing presentation it's a total you know uh rectal extraction technique you know it's just like I just wing it I just totally wing it all right um so I know we're going a little bit long but hopefully you guys are getting some good takeaways um let's what questions do you

guys have for Mike all right so I know you guys are throwing this in the chat this is your opportunity this is why we do these live you have the opportunity to ask Mike Right now one-on-one you know what was what was it like like this and what did you do about that you're talking to a guy who uh in the last five years has done has been to the top and been to the bottom and now is rising again right this guy is going to be a top listing agent yeah he's a phoenix and

so um you guys have any questions for him while we have him live yeah ask away I'm an open book he is an open book I'm done I'm done with the ego thing I had a bad one Now I'm done with it I'm go ahead Sherry ask away okay you may have said this and I apologize if you did but how far into you becoming an agent did you join Brandon's [Music] program maybe 6 months like I was on a team and I didn't know I didn't know and I was still working a full-time job

I started part-time and I was like my team leader was giving me these crappy leads from Facebook or whatever and I was told just call them and and I thought to myself there has to be a better way found Brandon's YouTube channel I think it was only like two months of watching videos trying to implement it myself to where I was like you know what I'mma put it on a credit card and I put I put fsba domination on a credit card and I was like I got to do this started getting deals um maybe

a month two months went by uh Ron texted me he's like I know you Didn't want to do real coaching but and I still have the the text to prove it because Ron texted me about something separate and it was like February 2021 hey we just launched listing agent Academy I think you'd be a good fit come join us gotten a call joined so maybe six seven months in total and that was the best decision I ever made I don't think I'd be in the industry if I didn't join this community I think I would

have Quit wow yeah thanks for that John go ahead um Mike how did you um two questions how did you what were you struggling with the mindset of the whole thing which made you go back to the main Pro program and how did you come over it overcome it what my mindset was struggling and how did I overcome it so for me it was ego just to throw it fully out there I thought I knew better than everyone at one point just because I was having Moderate success I thought I was like the grand Pua

of real estate or something um not quite that bad but the ego kicked in I thought I knew everything and I was playing the expired inis game too much I think because I I don't know exactly what caused it but it started getting very negative in my head I had this negative cycle I was starting to look at other people and judge them and I got so negative to not only other people but then Myself and I caught myself doing it and I'm like I'm I'm I'm I'm done doing that um it it took the

crap to realize I had that problem and to start overcoming it um and I how I overcame it was honestly I got lucky uh like so I left the coaching program and Brandon and a lot of other people in this community took me back with open arms and so it was leaning on this community that kind of fixed it um and I wish there was a Better answer but it was realizing that I don't know everything and that I'm not this SC poba or whatever and leaning on people like like Brandon who are grateful enough

to help me through it were you like negative on the prospects or negative on other people in the program just everything not other people in the program but there were definitely like situations where I'd be talking to a realtor and I'd catch myself just being Very negative like like I'd be on the other end of a deal like with a buyer agent and I'd be like wow this person doesn't know SI [ __ ] T like like I'm so much better than you and I I was like that just that mindset does not serve anyone

I just went deep down that rabbit hole to the point where I was like self-loathing at that point like it's just not healthy the success blinded you which which is what caused the ego right and that's what he's saying John is his Early success you know they say early success goes to your head that's what he's talking about is like I'm better than everybody I don't need like I just Pro like all that type of thing but it's staying humble and being a student of the game uh and continuing so I'll just give this last

thing right so like uh one of my favorite stories one my favorite stories is like I don't know if you guys are are fans of like the uh the whole story of of the rise and fall of Rome uh but but even Marcus aurelus you know like he'd have to he paid people John to be on his shoulder whispering in his ear you're only a man you're only a man you're only a man all day long because he was worried that he was so loved that he almost felt like a God and back then they

really prayed to the gods he felt like a God and he needed these people on his shoulder to bring him back down you're only a man only a man so I think It's really important to have a mindset of like I'm all it's like it's like the book mindset which is a great book it's like do you have a fixed mindset or a growth mindset and those people with a growth mindset are on a continuous path of elevation where those on a fixed mindset right unfortunately have some big lows in their life uh because having

the mindset of oh I have it all figured out is the very death of the the producer well said and Mark marus Speaking of Marcus aurelus if you haven't read meditations that was another that book I went back to it for probably like the fifth or sixth time that that book helped me pull pull myself out too that's right go ahead uh AA he everybody I'm there from Austin Texas I actually have a question about the listing presentation so as soon as I joined Brandon's program I've been using his listing presentation I really like it

and when I'm going through like the Script I'm finding that people are giving me the wrong answers like when I talk about the supply and the demand when I talk about days on market like how much they would be willing to pay um are you so at this point when I went on a listenting presentation this month I kind of omitted that so my question to you is are you following that listing presentation to a te or are you adapting it based on the personal of the seller whether they're super Direct and they just want

it done quickly how are you going about that I I think you have to read into the personality type the disk assessment right you you're not going to communicate the same way to a high D who wants to be very direct that you are a c who wants all the information um so I am adjusting it a little bit but at the same time I fell into a trap of of I know better so I'm going to do it my Way and that's actually what led to my demise so I'm following it almost to a

te to where where even Brandon says in the course yeah start adjusting this to your words I have it to I'm trying to memorize it to the point where I'm saying it exactly how the paper is and then I'll start adjusting you have to implement fully before you start making changes that's my mindset am I correct on that Brandon yeah and a I would just Say too right it's um if the prospects are giving you the wrong answer often it's because we're asking the wrong question okay so thinking that too yeah it could be do

we understand what it is that we're looking you see it's very hard to go from what most people learn which is I'm going to tell somebody something to using the Socratic method and asking questions to get the person to arrive at their own answer that is hard it is much easier to tell a seller Listen if the house uh sits on the market for a long time you're going to end up getting a lot less money than you did if you were to sell it quickly that's easy anybody can do that but to ask them

s questions of Socratic nature to get them to arrive at the at that on their own that's hard and so that might just take you a little bit of time to get there Mike you want to add something to that I was just going to say definitely I'm gonna send the thee Presentation I did yesterday to Brandon definitely tune in on that because I have that same struggle and uh Brandon's probably going to answer that in that breakdown yeah I would ask a question expecting one response and then I'd get like in this one like

she was a very talkative person so am I if you can't tell she would just go down this other rabbit hole and I'm thinking to myself wait that's not what I asked like so I I think interesting if I hear Correctly you're having the same problem so it will probably be a good one for you to listen to a question off of that um and it's the last one um so you know I've been like lately I'm very listing heavy and it's been very easy for me to convert because this is coming from the networking

and and and just people from my sphere what I'm finding though is when I'm doing a call and it's a complete stranger I am doing the preview Because I'm finding it more challenging to convert complete stranger versus some of those so when did you feel more comfortable saying okay I'm kind of done with the previews um like how were you able to build that Rapport a little bit better so that you could get the listing from a cold call well so me personally I feel like everybody's journey is going to be a little bit different

because again I was compare you can't compare your chapter One to somebody's chapter 20 um but for me person personally I didn't move on until my I was at the point where I was like I'm doing so many previews that I can't physically do more see I need to find a better more effective way and I had felt like I had you can never fully Master something but mastered it so I was like I'm doing this to the highest level all right now I'm going to move on and I actually think I asked Brandon that

question I Said when you think I'm one of very early Monday calls I said do you think I'm ready to move on and he like looked at my numbers and asked me a couple questions he said yeah I think you should move on and and I think if yeah that's great Mike and I'll add to help you AA it's like if you're um I don't know this right but I guess I would ask you the question too you know do you come from a do you come from direct sales background is that what your Career

is in is direct sales no this is my first sales job ever okay so if if that is your reality this whole thing of selling over the telephone is super difficult as you're learning uh and it takes a long time to get good at it it's not like this switch right I mean there's so much stuff you're dealing with mentally and emotionally and skills and stories you're telling yourselves and biases and etc etc etc etc so I would say for a Long time even people that have been in this community for years and years and

years still do really well just getting in front of people because if I had to bet if I put you in front of a homeowner who's thinking about selling like in their kitchen I bet you you handle that conversation just fine it's the phone conversation that screws everything up would that be safe yes so I've always bet if I was gonna bet on an agent right succeeding or not succeeding I would Much prefer they uh just go on go and see people face to face as much as possible that it's more likely that good good

will come from that than you not getting in front of people trying to Fig it over the phone because if you do that too long um you're going to get discouraged and you will quit and so it just takes really long to to build a skill set to convert over the telephone I would much rather you say as little as possible get in front of as many people As possible and allow the conversion to be a process that happens in person right now than over the telephone that's why we use the preview appointment as a

mechanism of conversion because right Mike so you like most they are way better even if the vast majority of those face-to-face appointments never turn into clients that's okay because you're using that meeting as the conversion mechanism you're not using the phone so you're going to meet with People to actually qualify not the phone to qualify yeah yes everything changes in person and I 100% agree I was probably doing that for two years before I finally moved on on but again my change is different than yours and I'm actually fun fact thinking about going back to

the preview method just because I felt like my success was better that way I feel like my my conversion rati is so yeah that's great context thank you yeah that's great go Ahead J.R I'll just unmute real quick unmute unmute unmute Jr unmute first your mic's muted buddy yeah lower left corner that button can elude you sometimes it's it's little bastard of a button there you go there we go got it thank you sorry about that guys problem Brandon so so glad that I found you and you're coaching and but I do have to say

the community even in just the week or So that I've been doing this on a daily basis like my mind is being blown by like oh my god um this is all the PE these are this is my people I found my people so um Mike on that note um I mean almost in sort of an intense level for me I feel like Mike is exactly where was exactly where I feel like I am now and so excited to see you've gotten past this and without going on and on about how also I felt sort

of like the freak Show at my brokerage they didn't support What I'm doing um I'm wondering is is there any one first step or Focus item I know there's no one item but uh a first thing to get started with that you thought was really important to get yourself back on track to get yourself back on track from I'm sorry could you get sure to get yourself back on track from having a spectacular number of years from having my ego get too big and then having my business seem like it has fallen apart Because I'm

I'm I don't for all of those reasons okay yeah no I get I I totally get it um I mean you already did in my opinion you took the right first step you said uh you're only a week into this community you said yeah yeah like I mean how how has your mindset been feeling since joining the community and involving with calls like this it's I mean without being too much of a raah cheerleader like it feels like night and day and feels like really exciting I Mean I think the question is kind of already

answered in that um because what happened to me was I pulled away from this thinking I was too good for it and that's what caused me you didn't have this support system so just being like Brandon said earlier a student of the game coming in enjoying the community but um I mean I me personally and I don't know your life Jr but I take great satisfaction helping others so like even being here I feel Amazing right now I love helping others and I would all day every day if Brandon was like yeah come on these

calls help people I would I would do it a heartbeat you wouldn't have to pay me anything like well and and I'll also add J.R that you're just getting started and so to Mike's Point you know I would tell you that the the biggest the number one thing that will that will determine uh someone's mindset someone's results etc etc is the environment it's the Environment that's what it will be and so like on February 3rd on February 3rd I'm hoping that you've got that time blocked off to participate in a three-day prospecting challenge you will

feel just like incredible because you're going to be in an environment with a bunch of people the the outcast will be everybody else that don't work in this industry and now you're grounded with people that are pouring into the work you're going to say this is what it's Supposed to feel like this is what I wish I had in in whatever Market you're in like in a real life sales um Team environment where it's positivity and we've got each other's back and we're pushing each other we're holding each other accountable you're performing to your greatest

potential and that is what we know is at the hierarchy of the human needs hierarchy right is self-actualization that's you know that's m Low's hierarchy of needs number One on the list is self-actualization more so than food more so than anything else more so than anything else is self-actualization at the top and that's how we get it is by we're herd creatures and so this industry leaves us by ourselves it's very bad very very very bad for us and so I would also add that that just in a couple weeks yeah I appreciate you putting

that like I have I'm still trying to you know sometimes I struggle Putting it into the exact length so I appreciate the the translation Brandon yeah exactly what he said um my first step was getting back into the community and not just taking but pouring into the community that's what I was trying to say to put on a focus lens just pour yourself into it that's the first step be around everybody help people you'll feel great when you're interacting here every day and being vulnerable like you know being Vulnerable there there's no um filters here

you know so it's really really being open in this community to say guys I'm struggling with this thing like where what are you guys doing like that is what community is for that I think a lot of Agents don't have at their brokerage and so that I'm not asking you to do that right now J.R you'll start to feel more and more and more comfortable as you start to meet more and more people but that will help you feel like Okay I I got I got this back yeah and feel free to give me a

call if you need it and you're not comfortable posting it in public on the group I can help you through it awesome much appreciated excited for February 3rd and uh without getting into a whole thing like feel like there used to be little challenges like that with the The Brokerage that I was with and they just don't seem to be there anymore so it's and I am excited to have a community that does that so That's great yeah Jr we're look forward to seeing you on that soon from the prospecting challeng is nothing there's nothing

that matches it I love it yeah that's great go ahead Susan hi Mike um I really appreciate you being very transparent and putting through like your year of phases of where you at and the peak of your time and then your ego and then humbling yourself and realizing that you know This is a sales job and that's really the AHA that I got because I've been in the business for a couple of years and I really liked how Brandon you said like it's like 90% are like it's it's people that they know that they've hired

to help them get sell their their property right that's right and so that's how I just realized that my motto has been a referral business model because my inconsistency of Legion and then even when I was consistent like not taking Responsibility of like really seeing if I'm a like if I'm U izing the script like a salesperson right because the level of converting on the phone and that's why you're saying like I have to contact 60 people because that's really like I just realized like I'm a like I have to accept that I'm a salesperson

like if I want to strive in this business I have to know what I'm saying and like track and measure like my conversion and all that And then not look at how much I earn right because it's like when you're a referral you look at what you earn and you're like I'm set I'm good and then you come back and then you're not a salesperson right and so that's what I'm realizing I'm so glad that I came back to the community I'm so glad that I it listened to this because it really like puts that

in you know respect we're glad to have you Susan so you hit the nail in the head I was looking at the dollar Amount in my bank account I wasn't looking at the activities let the activity be your win because that is the oh I'm drawing a blank on how exactly you normally say it Brandon that's the lead indicator and the money is the lagging indicator yeah so 100% yeah and if you can accept like not only do I accept that I'm in sales but I am proud because I'm in control of my life and

so I never want to I never want to not be a salesperson because we get to control Everything we get to control everything our schedule our income our travel our time with our kids etc etc referrals from past clients and spere of influence will always be there and that's great that's great we just don't have any control over it right it happens when it happens it will continue to happen more more for some less for others um but if you can just accept the fact that like I'm a I'm a highly paid sales executive and

I'm proud of it because I serve People that's what I do for a living is I but but in order to help those people I have to first accept the fact that I am in direct outbound sales and own it and perfect my craft and it is a craft it's a craft of communication can I add one quick thing to that before we move on to the next question be careful you said something about having to do 60 contacts and I'm not sure if you're just talking about me or for you be careful because it

sounds Like you're just getting into this do not bite off more than you can chew yeah that is part of what happened to me as well I felt like I had to do like these grandiose High numbers um and just because I was there again don't if you're new to prospecting start with something reasonable like 20 yeah 30 whatever your number is yeah 10 even and build from there don't jump into the deep water when you don't know how to swim Great all right we'll go to the last one thanks Mike I know we're going

we're grabbing a lot of your time but I know you you're good to help people it's great go ahead John yeah Mike um I was just wondering what when you did leave the community what were some of the things you were doing differently that didn't work out as well when I left the community it was a lot of it was a lot of sitting by myself Like I I guess what what do you mean by by he's saying he's saying when you left here was it a new tactic that you were doing was it a

new strategy that you were trying to do to get business that's what he's asking he it was a lot of jumping from thing to thing like I tried Facebook ads I went like um it was a lot of these things I had on the back burner of Life uh I swapped real estate and put that on the back burner almost right Like I I had all these dreams ambition and I thought oh well real estate's working let me just start looking at these other things like one of my dreams like I was telling Brandon before

this call one of my dreams is I want to get like I want to become a public speaker like I want to build that personal brand and be like invited on stages and I want to talk so that was one of the things I swapped with real estate and when Real Estate died I realized wait my other Things I want out of life only come if I'm successful here so okay I don't know if it was necessarily a different approach like what you're looking for it was the same approach I just didn't put the level

of action into it that I needed to and can I add to that Mike just because I know you John I think this will help what with success we talked about how ego typically follows what the other thing that follows is shiny object syndrome so it's like okay Now that I have this money I'm not gonna call anymore now I'm going to try all this other stuff I'm going to start to here's the best thing right I'm going to I'm going to start to have multiple streams of income right and so I'm going to do

a little bit of this I'm going to do a little bit of that and then it just takes a little while for you to diversify your energy into all these different things to end up with nothing versus going all in in one thing and Producing an actual result and so Mike would you is that fair yeah you you just I yep I feel like you looked into my bank account you would all hey I'm going to spend money over here build another source of income and that took away my energy and thought that Brandon hit

the nail on the head though I can't tell you John how many times this has happened I mean I've had really good friends in the business um Chase shiny objects right out of the industry I'm talking about top producers making five six $800 a million dollars a year and then they say okay now that I've made it I'm going to go build a solar business I'm going to go build a brokerage I'm going to go build a coaching business I'm going to go build a social media influencer uh thing I'm going to go whatever just

input whatever you want outside of making the calls that actually make me a lot of money to feed my family I'm going to do anything But that and then it's just a matter of time before they go broke chasing all these shiny sexy things for them to come right back to the basics and here's what we know Mastery are it comes to those that execute on the fundamentals consistently over a long period of time make the main thing the main thing that's right right go ahead John a appreciate that I really needed to hear that

thank you we all do I I have to be reminded of it ask Ben I wake up every Morning dude we could do this we could do this we could do this and Ben's like dude keep the main thing the main thing I'm like yep you're right you're right you're right this is boring this is super boring I'm just kidding I love all of you but I'm just saying like I have I want to do a bunch of stuff you know and then's like no just this is what we do go ahead Mike what's the

book is it like sales rocket or something I I know you've probably read it Brandon or it Talks about the Visionary and the implementer Ben is definitely your implementor you're definitely the Visionary big time and if and that's how my brain works but like you have to learn if you're the Visionary to be able to slow down because you can't build all these things like there's people out there like me and Brandon um and probably thousands of you 50% of the population are out there going and we can do this and we Rocket Fuel somebody

Said yes yeah great book I love it but we're out there going we can do this and this and this and this and this and this and what if and what if in the what ifs or what kill you if you're not if you don't have somebody like Ben from what Brandon just said that is holding you and saying hold on hold on let's let's slow down just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something right and it's like keep the main thing the main thing you know and Um I I had

the worst shiny object syndrome early in my career I think I told all of you you know I was like couple hundred, into debt I was with every coach I was with I tried every single thing out there all of it you know and I I just said this on the Monday coaching call my income John was never the lowest to when I had the multiple streams of income I had rental real estate I had a real estate brokerage I had a mortgage company I had A real estate sales company I was like trying to

coach some agents on the side I had my title and escro Company that's when my life was the worst most people are like wow dude you got a lot of [ __ ] going on yeah a lot of [ __ ] going on is Right a lot of [ __ ] going on where I'm not making money and I've got all these personal guarantees and all these buildings and uh going into debt here there everywhere you know under promising overd delivering on everything To everybody etc etc dude it was a disaster and and we all

Chase it because we see people at the top and we compare their chapter 20 to our chapter one it's like well dude look at Patrick bed David he's got 25 companies right after he built his insurance company for 20 years sold it for TW for a 100 million then he started something else so yeah go build a $100 million Empire and then start your next hobby you know 100% and that's what I'm doing right now I stripped Everything but really state I'm focusing on that I'm done with focusing on rev share I'm done with focusing

on these SAS businesses I was trying to build these affiliate marketing I'm screw it Focus going all in on this the succcess from the other things will follow after last thing on that we're done um that's that's what I learned from my mentor Dan Gilbert the guy who owns the Cleveland Cavaliers in quick and Loans which is now rocket mortgage same thing he has Over 3 50 companies that he owns but guess what for 30 years he had one for 30 years he was an overnight success in 30 years built the number one mortgage company

in the planet then started Company 2 but Realtors have a year of success and it's like okay now I'm going to be this influencer I'm GNA write books I'm going to do this that it's like dude anyway uh Mike thank you so much yeah focus and discipline is the ultimate competitive advantage in this Market so you could stay focused keep your head down stop looking at the girls in red dresses you'd be in really good shape thank you everybody thank you Brandon for having me back I'm appreciative for everybody here awesome thank you Mike for

doing this for everybody you guys have an awesome week we'll see you guys soon appreciate it