John "Tig" Tiegen - The Haunting Truth About Delta Force’s Actions in Benghazi | SRS #235

[Music] John Tegan, welcome to the show, man. >> Thanks for having me. You might regret it, but we'll see. >> I don't think I'll regret it. But um yeah, so talked a lot about Benghazi on the show and uh you know, we've had our former colleagues on, the people that you were there with, the ones that came public anyways. And so you're kind of the last one of the stack and and uh I've been really looking forward to this, man, ever since we talked what a couple months ago. >> Yeah, it's been Yeah. >> So

I appreciate you coming in. >> Oh, thanks for having me on, man. Appreciate it. >> My pleasure. My pleasure. You ready to get into it? >> No, but I guess I got no choice. I'm here now. So >> All right. Everybody starts off with an Introduction. John Tegan, a Colorado native and former United States Marine Corps sergeant, a seasoned private security contractor starting with Blackwater in 2003, later joined the CIA's elite global response staff, also known as GRS, a hero of the 2012 Benghazi attack. You are one of the six GRS operators who defied orders

to stand down, fought through 13 grueling hours of chaos, and helped save dozens of American lives. co-author of the Best-selling book 13 hours, the inside account of what really happened in Benghazi, a des a dedicated husband and father of twin sons, and most importantly, out of everything, you're a Christian. >> Yes, sir. >> Am I missing anything? >> Uh, I don't think so. >> Well, I can think of something I'm missing. You're running for mayor in uh Colorado Springs. >> Yeah, I am going to be doing that. >> So, we'll definitely hit that up. and

a musician. >> I'm not a Well, definitely not a musician. Or should I say a magician? Is that what that one >> mag? You remember that interview? I don't know if you saw that one. Anyways, oh yeah. Yeah. Anyways, um I would say more I don't know. I wouldn't call myself a music writer. I just kind of wrote some Stuff down. I think I posted a couple of the the poems online and actually David Coroo got a hold of me. He said, "Hey, you need to do a voice over on this." So I was like,

you know, I hate hearing myself because I don't watch my own interviews. >> Me neither. >> Yeah. So you knew at the Philly. So I'm like, "Okay, fine." I started reading it and I didn't like the way it flowed. So I started changing it up a little bit. Then I had a buddy, another buddy hit me up said, "Hey, you should throw it in, you know, make it to a song." I like I don't know how to make anything to a song. So he told me about a program said, "Put it in here. It'll actually

it'll like sing it to you." And that's kind of how it came that he started changing the lyrics around and kind of make it sound good. And that's kind of where it came from. >> Oh, it sounds good. >> Not really a I don't think I'm a writer, music writer, but David Corlo, he's he's he Yeah, he's going to work with me, I guess. Right on, man. He's a good dude. >> Oh, he is. >> How long have you known David for? >> Uh, probably since like what when did we meet him? I think it

was in the book tour. Met him and Charlie. We went to um the Grand O Opry I think 2014 when we first did the book tour. >> Damn. Right on. So, >> yeah. 20 2014 2015 sometime around there. >> 10 11 years. >> Yeah. >> He's a good man to know. I' I've been buddies with him for Man, I don't know either. less time than that was right when we moved here. So, probably around 18. >> Yeah. >> But what an awesome guy. >> Oh, he is. He's really good. He's a really good cat. So,

>> well, couple things to knock out here before we get into the interview. So, I have a Patreon account. It's a subscription account and um >> and like Only Fans. >> It's kind of like Only Fans except I keep at least I keep the majority of my clothes on. So now if I was in my 20s, you know, we'd probably go the full gambit. But >> but you do the foot thing at least, you know, that's that's a that's a fetish. >> But uh they've been with me since the very beginning. A lot of them

have. And it's turned into quite the community. And so one of the things I do is I offer them uh the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question. And so this is from Ian Lane. It's good question. You've seen firsthand what happens when politics and hesitation cost lives. Do you think America is any better prepared Today or are we doomed to repeat Benghazi in a different place in a different time? Yeah, I would say yeah. Um cuz if you look at I mean just through the history of what things have happened when I

would say leadership is not truly held accountable nothing changes. Um but you know we got it really just depends on the administration that's involved and you know what their mindset is actually Changes it. But until people are actually held accountable and for the even just for somebody being killed when they just promote somebody or just reprimmend them again your leadership and you're in that position and that that is your responsibility to make sure that they have what they need to make sure they come out alive and you know if somebody gets killed because of your

lack of leadership, your lack of um oversight, you should be held Accountable to where again nonvoluntary manslaughter. It is what it is. Until stuff like that happens, it will happen again. >> Yeah. I mean, >> it's [ __ ] sad, man. >> It is. I mean, it's a tough decision to make, but again, you're you're responsible for the lives of the people on the ground, you know, like lamb, they're requesting for stuff when I was in Benghazi since 2011. They were Requesting for more support, you know, talking to the security guys because we'd go over

there almost every week, you know, and uh they would say, "Yeah, we always get denied." And ask him why. They would never tell us why. Again, this is from their mouths. And you know, when uh the concert was attacked the second time over there, there was only two security personnel over there at that time. You know, I believe this was like in April, Then it happened about 1:00 in the morning. So, I was there that night. So, that's how I know. We got told to stand down then. But again, when stuff like that happens, you

know it's a security risk. You know there's failures and you don't do anything about it. Until you people are held accountable, nothing will ever change. >> Man, it's just crazy. You know, do you remember when the coast bombing was? >> Yeah. >> What What year was that? >> I want to say 20 2010 2011 or so. No, I think it was 2010. It was like around it was Christmas. Man, I just >> I remember working over there and it was just the same mistakes everywhere. >> Oh, yeah. And you you'd bring it up. I did

it, too. You know, and I was I actually went somewhere else. I was supposed to go back to there and uh >> Yeah. We kept telling like we got to search these guys when they come on. No, no, they're our friends. They're our buddies. It's So, again, it's like that. Yeah. >> It was like I I can't remember. Excuse me. I can't I can't remember if it was your event in Benghazi or if it was the coast bombing, but I remember deploying in a uh Christmas time frame. I think it was right after Christmas. And

I feel like it was the coast bombing That had just happened, but it may have been Benghazi. But I remember getting over there and I was just like, "Guys, like we're time and place predictable. We're doing the same [ __ ] every single [ __ ] day, you know?" And I was brand new. >> It was probably Coast. It it might have been coast and and but whatever it was, I had brought that up and I was like, we can't be doing this [ __ ] Like this is I was new at sock. I just

went from Blackwater to Sock and then eventually went direct. But >> I was like, >> we we're going to get [ __ ] killed. Like you guys just saw what [ __ ] just happened. You know, we got to I'll be damned. 24 hours later, our safe house got hit and you know, luckily nobody got killed. But dude, it was just the same thing over and over and the same excuses like that. Well, no, we don't search them cuz they're our friends or oh well, You know, we've been doing this for years. And it's like,

yeah, that's exactly what we need to switch it up. >> Exactly. So, it's we never understood that at Coast. Never never understood that at all. >> Were you at Coast when it happened? No, I was I went to uh another I went to another location, but I just I was at Coast three trips in a row. Normally, you go back four times, but then I end up getting I had the golden visa, so I Went over there. >> Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. >> Yeah. Yeah, man. I can't believe we never worked with each other. >> Yeah.

That's I mean, it's Yeah, it's crazy. I went to more um foreign bases. I was at in Cabbell like my first trip. Then after that it was out the other locations. Did Iraq uh twice and Yeah. >> I hated Cobble. >> Yeah, I hated it too. >> I like the outstation. >> Oh yeah, way better. >> It's a lot more a lot more going on than >> Yes. >> Too much flagpole crap in man. >> But well, a couple other things. Everybody gets a gift. >> Oh yeah, he perked up for that one, didn't you,

Axel? All right. >> You want to smell >> easy fellow but >> that's money. >> So yeah, those are vigilance league gummy bears legal in all 50 states. Not that you have to worry about that in Colorado, but >> right. Yeah. >> But uh yeah, it's just candy. >> And then I got another thing for you. >> All righty. >> So I got a uh a buddy over at SIG. His name's Jason and I told him you were coming on and he got all excited. He Wanted me to uh give you this. So that is

the Sig P211 GTO. It is Sig's first 2011 style pistol and uh they did a damn good job. >> I like it. >> Damn good job. >> It's heavy, isn't it? >> I like it. I have the I carry the Legion. >> You do? The 365? Which Legion? the the axe. >> Oh, nice. >> Yeah, it's a big This is I mean it's about the same weight. I I just like heavier guns, man. >> Feel that trigger, man. Yeah, they got the compensator up front. Redid their optics line. Hey, buddy. That is nice. Ooh, the

reset's nice. It's crisp. >> It's good to go. >> I like that. >> Not that you need that with this guy running around you all the time, >> you know? He's He's a very good deterrent. >> I I'll bet he is. >> He's got my ass in line, that's for sure. >> Oh, this is sick. Appreciate it, man. >> Yeah, man. You're welcome. You're welcome. We'll we'll break it in on a break, >> right? Heck yeah. This be my first uh first one. Nice. Yeah, I got the compact and the X and Now I have

this one. >> Nice. >> Nice. I like I did. I've like sigs. >> Me too, man. Me too. They make a great firearm. >> They do. >> But all right, so let's get into the interview. So like I like I had mentioned >> Oh, I thought we were done. >> Thanks for coming. Um, yeah. So, like I said, I want to get into My favorite thing to do, my bread and butter is to do life stories on on gentlemen like yourself. And so, do a life story, get into your military career, how you got into

contracting, GRS. I would love to talk about obviously what happened in Benghazi and then everything that you're doing now, including running for mayor. So, >> so where did you grow up? >> Well, um, I was born in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. So, I lived there uh pretty much Until about third grade or something like that. So, and that's actually where I wanted to join the military. Um, not really having the good, I guess, structured family life. You know, mom worked at a bar and just all that stuff. So, she was there never really there at night

and always slept during the day. So, I guess it was kind of fun. Um, but Oh, yeah. I got some yeah maybe some stores I probably shouldn't say on here as a kid but so there was recruiting Army recruiting station across the street and we lived um like on the main a not for a long time but one of the main ones on the main a so right across the street was recruiting station so to and from usually from school I'd always go there cuz you know parents went home anyways plus they always had snacks

and posters and you know patches they'd always give you >> Yeah. So I always always hang out there and so that's kind of but it was with The army. Um and it was actually I wanted to fly the Apache helicopter. >> No kidding. >> Yeah, that thing was just badass man. You know then plus Airwolf was out I think at that time too. So if you don't know what Airwolf is, you know, go look it up. But TV show. But anyway, so uh but uh unfortunately about fifth grade I had to start wearing glasses. So

yeah, that's kind of when I was done decided Yep. I was done flying. I'm >> like, "No, can't fly." >> But no, so I grew up in Iowa. >> Um did a lot of stupid stuff as a kid there, even young. We used to jump trains. >> Used to do what? >> Jump on the trains to go from like one part of the town to the other cuz like our cousins lived on like the south end, we lived on the north end kind of thing. So the trains wouldn't go. They go like 10 miles an

hour. They weren't hauling Ass. So he just jumped the train. We knew the schedule again. You're looking like at third grade. >> Damn, dude. >> Yeah. >> Damn. So Cedar, I mean, it's a pretty good size city and uh you know, go on the other side, time get late, you knew the train was coming, you had to get on the train, otherwise you had to pretty much walk back. It sucked. >> Damn. >> Sometimes the family would give you a ride back, but not always. They're kind of douchebags in a way. >> Was your dad

in the picture? >> No, he left uh I think when I was born or something like that. Have you met him? >> Uh yeah. I think I finally met him the first time like in sixth grade I think is what it was. >> Holy [ __ ] What was that like? >> Um in just uh you know it was awkward. It was weird. But you know I actually went out I think it was uh might have been fifth grade I think I met him the first time. But anyways I went out there one time and

I was going to try to stay out there and live but that didn't turn out very well either. >> Why not? Um, it kind of goes back to well growing up getting violent kind of being uh Physically abused and and stuff like that as a kid. So when I went to my dad kind of on a different kind of scale, but he kicked me one time cuz I spent $2 more than I should have and I said I'm not going to live here. I can just go back home at least I got more of my

friends. So cuz at the time he was in California. So then kind of went back from California back to Colorado. That was in uh seventh grade. >> You were physically abused as a kid. >> Mhm. >> By who? >> Uh three different people. >> Adults. >> Yeah. Well, no. I say one was more of a it was a this was uh the first one it was in Iowa. Uh I would say kindergarten time frame, but it was our babysitter. >> What happened? Uh I don't really got detail into it, but Um she would just kind

of show uh just do things I guess. >> Sexual. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> Holy [ __ ] dude. >> And then uh well the the physical side was more from uh our uh stepdad. You know, he'd beat the [ __ ] out of us. Sometimes he'd come home drunk and uh if he had a bad night, pull us out of bed and whip our asses. Um with the I just remember the belt and it had metal rings in it. So he said he used it because it with the holes cuz it would fly

through the air faster. So >> just for no reason. >> Yep. He just had a bad night or we left dishes in the sink or something like that. So >> Jeez, dude. Who was the third? >> Uh well the other ones were more of a sexual abuse kind of stuff, but you know Her my mom's uh boyfriends used to pretty much hit all of us. You know, I mean, we were unruly for the most part, but >> how many how many brothers and sisters you had? >> Uh, I got one one older brother, older sister,

and a younger sister, >> and they all got it. >> Uh, not my younger one. I don't think she really did. >> What about the sexual abuse? >> Um, I don't think they did. I think it was just me. So, yeah. The other one again was in Iowa as well. It was again close friend. And then the the last one was in uh in Colorado. Um I think I was uh going into fifth grade. >> Jeez, TG. You had three different [ __ ] sexual abusers by fifth grade. >> Yep. Two of them the family

didn't know about. They only knew about the last One. >> What did they do? >> Two never got caught. What's that? >> What did they do? >> So how that guy got caught? We were uh up in uh Gold Camp Road in Colorado. And actually my cousin was there and the guy, you know, he would bring he bought his liquor. He was actually he was a stock car driver or something like that. One of those little short speed track racers. So he was pretty well known, I Guess. We didn't really know cuz it was like

our second year being in Colorado for the most part. And uh but anyway, so we were up there and he started playing like a truth or dare game and he was like, you know, truth or dare. Can't remember exactly what it was, but I think he pulled his pants down. That's when my cousin grabbed me and we took off. You know, people in Colorado know where Gold Camp Road is. You know, we pretty much went from Gold Camp Road and We hiked it back to Manitou Springs and had the cops called and that's kind of

how that went. But, um, come to find out he was, uh, doing that to a couple other kids, but they let him off saying there was not enough evidence. I uh do you mind if we dive into this a little more? Go >> ahead. >> You know, it's just I totally wasn't expecting this uh to come up. In fact, when we just reviewed the interview, he Said, "Oh, no. He had a great childhood." And um but you know, it um I can't believe how common this is in people's childhood. And you know, I just I

found it out through interviewing. I'll bet 50% of the of the people that have been on here have have been through physical or sexual abuse as a kid. >> I think that's why it's probably more than that just ones don't talk about it. You know, like the mil if you look in the military, a lot of the I I bet you Majority of them that had a semi rough childhood were probably abused in one way or another. Yeah. I mean, and and out of that, I mean, there's only so many a lot of times this

will come up after the interview or before the interview and they don't want to talk about it cuz they've made amends with the abuser or whatever. But I I I mean, so anyways, kind of where I'm going with this is, you know, I've learned like how common this is uh through interviews Diving into childhood and it just keeps coming up >> and it's always um almost always as a shock cuz it just comes out. And so I started I I hate hearing that. And I I started diving into child sex exploitation and child trafficking and

abuse and all that stuff and and kind of exposing how how common it is. >> It's bad >> today's society. But you know what I Want I what I want to ask is if if you don't want to go into detail that's fine. I totally understand and I'm not going to press you on it. But, you know, one of the things I like to do, uh, because we've had so many of these stories come out is talk about, you know, kids that are in that predicament right now as we're sitting here talking. >> Yep. >>

You know, and [ __ ] man. Three abusers by the time you're in fifth grade. >> Yep. >> How do you get I mean, >> well, I mean, for the mo I mean, the first two, you don't you don't really think anything's wrong, honestly. I mean, hell, I'm so damn young. I don't know if anything's wrong or not. Um I think the the first one stopped just because we moved you know she was again she was the babysitter and you know again she I don't remember exactly why but you you know she was babysitters During

the day mainly during the summer. Um could have been maybe because school started she couldn't come over no more. Um, but you know, for for me, you know, even I was running for mayor, you going through and they're teaching you about the the things that's going on in here and I'm like going, you know, when these things happened to me, none of this stuff was brought up when I was a kid. I remember, you know, going Through the problems and stuff and and for like kids that are going through it. My biggest fault. I originally

didn't want kids because I didn't want to have to deal with, you know, my own kids going through the same [ __ ] that I did. So, that's why I waited till 35 when I had enough close calls to say, well, you know, I better have kids if I want my jeans to continue. So, again, that's why I decided to go. Other than that, it's just like, man, societyy's Just [ __ ] up. >> Yeah. >> Um, and we don't protect our kids. You know, you do have some parents again, they'll see somebody doing something

with their kid, they'll go kill them, and then what do they got to do? They got to go spend time in court, which I think is horseshit. Somebody's hurting your kids, you know, that's that's our number one asset in this in this world is our kids. That's our future. So to Allow things like that to happens, that's why I was kind of afraid to have kids cuz somebody did that to my kid, >> you kill him. >> I'm going to kill him. So, you know, I talked to my kids about it. you know, they don't

know my history, but I always made sure I let them know. You know, that was the biggest thing about the last guy was he would use, you know, again, you know, what, fourth grade, you're what, eight, Nine or something like that. You still don't really know. Um, 10 years again, he was like, you know, if you tell anybody, I'm going to I'm going to kill you or I'm going to kill your brother and sister because it was in an apartment and they they he just lived like right upstairs. He was a pretty big guy, you

know. Um he was bigger than my mom's boyfriend. So, you know, as a kid, you don't know. So, my biggest thing is telling my kids, if anybody ever tells You to keep a secret on, let me know cuz you know who I am. I'm going to kill them. I got no problem telling my kids that. That way, they don't have to fear somebody else. >> Jeez. So, with the with the sitter, was this like an everyday occurrence or or every time she >> B? Every time. So, it's pretty much just during the week. >> How

I mean, what would she say to you? Would she say, "Don't tell anybody or Kill you?" Yeah, they they all said that don't tell anybody. That's the biggest thing about telling a kids. Anybody tells you do not tell anybody, there's a problem, especially as a kid. You shouldn't have to have a secret as a kid. Jeez. So again, that's just parents actually having those conversations with their kids just to make sure, you know, even going back to the whole crap that they're teaching kids in school, forcing That LBG, all that hidden stuff. Same thing. If

anybody says don't tell your you should be telling your parents cuz they're they're doing something that is wrong. Period. >> Did you wind up telling anybody? >> Uh about the first two? No. >> And the second guy was upstairs in an apartment? >> No, that was the third one. >> Who was the second guy? >> Um that was in Iowa. He lived uh down The street and I just remember it was uh that that would only happen twice only. But it was just cuz I would I spent the night. He had a kid the same

age and stuff like that. And you know, I I think they they worked in the bar with my mom or something like that. So, >> and the third guy lived above you. >> Yeah. >> How would that happen? >> Uh, so he had uh again take you they say They're going to take us to the racetrack or something like that and that's when it would happen or uh again he said he could watch us or watch me. Um he never did anything with when when uh the other kid uh brother and sister were around. But

so take you to he had a a uh used car lot right on film uh not Filillmore right on plat kind of next really close to Union. The building's still there but obviously he's not but that's where again he try to that's when Things would happen mainly there. So I try to not go but again sitting there sitting there telling you you know don't tell your parents or I'm going to you know kill you kill them. So you don't tell them why you don't want to go and so sometimes you still had to go. >>

[ __ ] dude. >> So >> and physical abuse. >> Mhm. >> [ __ ] hey man. >> Yeah. There's people that had worse than me. But that's probably why I was so kind of protective I guess and violent growing up. So, >> who are you protective of? >> Uh, just like other friends, other people being picked on and bullied and stuff like that. So, >> did your mom have any idea that this was going on? >> No, but I do uh So, when she finally Well, when everything kind of did get out in the

open, the cops are called and all that. Um, I do remember when when I I think I was I took off. When was this? I might have been like in eighth grade or something by now. you know, as a kid, we don't really have a curfew or anything. And I think I was out and I remember coming back and I was coming in through the garage and usually They're up and partying almost all the time. So, they're up. I remember I just I don't know why they were talking about it, but I know my sister

was there talking to my mom about it and uh you know, she was kind of, you know, cuz I was getting a lot of trouble and my sister was probably, you know, trying to explain to my mom. I was like, "Well, it's probably this stuff. You probably need to go see somebody." And I just remember her sitting there saying he Needed to quit using this as an excuse and just get over it. >> Your mom said that. >> Of course, they didn't know I was out there and then I was just like I just kind

of said, "Fuck this." And I just took off and went to my best friend's house and just stayed there for a few days. Jeez. Are you close with your mom now? >> No, I really haven't talked to her since like uh 200 Maybe four or five. >> Why did you quit talking to her? >> That's another story. Um, so got a step had well a stepdaughter. I was I'm on my second marriage, but my previous wife and had a stepdaughter and uh she was getting getting into a lot of trouble and uh just kind of

doing her own thing for the most part and we were disciplining her and and uh came to a Point I think her mom was actually she was in Kuwait at this time and so I was kind of at home and we were getting ready to go back to Kuwait. So I think I came back to pick her up to bring her back to Kuwait. It was something like that. And well, she was constantly running away and stuff like that. And one time she just kind of disappeared. So we're calling calling, you know, calling my younger

sister, my mom, trying to figure out where she might be, Calling her friends. Well, got a hold of her friends and her friends were saying that my sister was picking her up from school every day. This is why her grades were failing. So I called her and said, "Do you know where she is?" And she's like, "I haven't heard from her." yada yada yada. Well, me and my buddy went over there at night and just kind of went around her house cuz we just kind of assumed that's probably where she was. Sure enough, we heard

her voice in There. And uh so we called the cops. Cops came. I just remember my mom coming in. She didn't say hi or nothing to, you know, me and my buddy at all. You know, the cops just sitting there as we're talking explaining what was happening. And you know, she did. My mom just comes walking by really fast and cops like, "Who's that?" And that's my mom. You know, she's not even going to say anything. It's probably because she knew she was there. She had been gone for Like a week now. We've been trying

to look for her. Well, obviously cops get involved. Child Protective Service gets involved. They start talking to her. Next thing you know, I'm being looked at for um uh what I can't even think. uh for molesting stepdaughter. >> What? >> So they had convinced her that if they if if she told them that I was touching her that they that she could leave and Come live with them. And that's when I was like, "Fuck you. I'm done talking with you guys." Cuz that just that that does more than what they think they thought it would

do cuz that that destroys somebody's life. This is when again I was getting ready to actually start working with uh the um Blackwater and all that doing all my background. You get something like that, you're done. Jeez. So, Life insurance isn't exactly a fun topic, but it's one of the most important. I'm always looking for simple, stress-free ways to make sure my family is protected. Fabric by Gerber Life makes it easy. Fabric by Gerber Life is term life insurance you can get done today. Made for busy parents like you. All online on your schedule right

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just like where was the protection that you're supposed to have? Where are all The adults, you know? Especially after when they let the dude off and I was just like this is just [ __ ] up, you know? It was just when I kind of knew like I had I had to be my own protector. And pretty much from that moment on I was. >> When did you realize it was wrong? uh when my cousin yanked me out of the car and I think I kind of knew because I didn't want to go anymore but

again I didn't know what to do what to say to Anybody. So I think during that time I think I knew it was wrong. But >> why did your cousin yanke you out of the car? >> Uh he was two years older than I was and I think he's just kind of like you like yeah [ __ ] you. Plus he's kind of part Indian so he has that mentality. >> Damn man. Damn. So, >> so what ad, you know, where I'm kind of going with this is there are a lot of kids out there

that go through this. I Have no idea how many, but it's an overwhelming amount. And um I mean, one is too many. What advice do you have for kids that are dealing with this right now? >> My tell them find somebody to help you until you do honestly. Um, if you don't trust your parents, you know, again, you can call 911, you can tell them, find somebody. >> Damn, man. >> And but a lot of the problem is there's So many people that cry wolf out there that it hurts the the true people. It really

does. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Again, don't just because somebody's I guess don't you don't like them, don't do that [ __ ] to them either because it destroys their lives, >> man. I'm sorry. I had to go through that. >> Yeah. I mean, I would like to change things, but it also made me who I am. So, it's kind of hard to say. Would you? >> Yeah. >> You know, cuz I may maybe went a whole another direction, did something else. And so, >> Damn. Would you talk about it with your with your siblings? Any

of the abuse? >> Mm-m. >> Sexual or physical? >> No. Well, we talked about getting beat by our by our stepdads and stuff and he was an [ __ ] >> Did you ever stand up to him? >> No, I know I didn't. I think my brother might have u but then he just beat beat you harder. That's all they would do. I mean, we're kids are, you know, the size difference, you know, it's amaz. I know my mom tried to stand up for us a couple times, but I know he put her in the

hospital a few times. Um, threw down The stairs and all that stuff, you know, separ separating her shoulder and all that >> [ __ ] man. You witnessed all that. >> Mhm. >> That's heavy stuff, dude. >> Yeah. Foster homes ain't that great either. Same same thing. They're very abusive. >> You've been in foster homes? >> Yeah. >> How did you wind up in a foster? >> Uh mainly I think the babysitter once left us. This when I was in first grade around first grade. And we were again we were [ __ ] kids, man.

We were intense, you know. No discipline, no supervision. And she she couldn't deal with us no more. So she called the cops. My mom, again, she was she was at the bar. Nobody get a hold of her. So the cops came and got us foster home for about a week. Um for that one again that they were Just again kind of same thing uh very very abusive um physically and then uh the second one was physically and sexually again. So the worst one though was like that one my mom was in the hospital. I don't

remember exactly what for, but uh I remember them walking us there so we could see her from the hospital room, which was kind of cool, I guess, as a kid. Walking back, I didn't have any shoes, and I stubbed my toe and I ripped it open pretty good. It was Pretty gnarly, screaming, crying. Um couldn't walk, so they were nice at that time, but then we got into the house, they beat the [ __ ] out of me cuz I was crying. >> Damn, man. Yeah. >> That's a rough childhood. Jeez. What got you So,

what got you interested in the military? Was it an escape or >> Well, again, I think I already kind of had it from the recruiting station, you Know, just kind of seeing them, you know, compared to my own family life, seeing how they portrayed themselves, I guess. >> Yeah. >> And that's kind of what I wanted. Um, but again, how I kept wanting to do it from pretty much, you know, you're looking like second, third grade time frame this is going on. And then still wanted to do it, you know, all through all the other

Stuff. I think I just always wanted, you know, I did like a lot of reports in high school on Vietnam War and stuff like that. Did a lot of look into that, how they fought and stuff and it just always intrigued me. Did you I mean what I'm just What's your relationship like with your dad now? Is it non-existent? Do you guys >> No, he uh so he actually was he was he lived with me for a long time. Um and uh he was actually watching watching One of our house when we were overseas doing

a lot of contract work and stuff like that. Uh but then I got divorced in uh 2023 and then he's kind of out on his own now. So pretty much about like 2006 till 2023 he lived with us. So I had a had a you know property out down in uh PBLO County had a you know in-law house. That's kind of where he stayed. So he kind of watched you know with the cattle and stuff like that while I was gone and you know so he did Some help around the house or around the property.

How do you think that abuse has affected if it has your adulthood? >> I'm pretty sure it has one way or another. I mean, >> I don't see how it couldn't. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't think I have that. My wife would probably say the romantic lovey lovey thing. Pretty rough on the edges for the most part, but definitely don't, you know, trust really A whole lot of trust >> in anybody. Not really, you know. So, I mean, I trust her and my kids, >> but you know, just been so in betrayal. It's been

there forever. You know, even one of my other my say the second stepdad, he uh so when you're a kid, you get a job, you can't open a bank account. You have to have a co-signer. So, he was a co-signer on the account. And I started work when I was like when He first when he could like 15 or 14. And so I was just saving up money, you know, making a lot of money, but I was saving up. I think I was supposed to have like 4 to $6,000 in the account. And uh I

was probably the only kid in ninth grade that had a car. But I went to go cuz the battery died. So I went to go buy a battery and I had and I was it kept getting denied. So I called the bank. There was no money in it. He stole all my money. Damn, dude. >> So, my boss actually is he would just cash my checks for me and just give me cash. I quit I quit my bank accounts until I could actually get my own account. >> What are your relationships like with the rest

of your siblings? >> Um, we talk here and there, but they don't my like I don't talk to my younger sister. She was part of the whole uh problem with the stepdaughter. Um my Older one, she lives in Ohio. And then my brother, he works for the post office, so he's always working. It's kind of like somebody in the military. You just never see him. But you know, just kind of like with Oz and Tanto, we just kind of talk every now and then, hit each other up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do you guys

talk about what happened nowadays? No, I think we did once, me and my brother when uh we were drunk. It's usually when you're drinking, talk about it. Man, I hate hearing this [ __ ] >> Didn't expect that, did you? >> So, >> not at all. Not at all. But I'm glad we went there. So, thank you. Now again my thing is so I used to kind of keep almost everything to myself but you always hear like you Know you got to tell your story because you know somebody else is probably going through it they're

going through something worse they don't know how to deal with it don't know what to do especially with kids. >> Yeah. >> You know so my biggest thing you know my best thing to do is tell it cuz more kids might hear it because of who I am and more again likely to finally say something is happening and it shouldn't Be happening. So, it's really it's better for them. I mean, for me, healing it doesn't really heal me at all. It's just it is what it is. There ain't nothing I can do about it. Can't

change it. Um, I dealt with it. It is what it is again. But it's for me letting kids know or even adults know. Like, again, it's not your fault. At least I I did know that growing up. I knew it wasn't my fault. But talk about it. Get it out. Otherwise, that that demon is just going to destroy you. And for kids, find somebody to protect you. Talk. Tell somebody it's happening. There's nothing wrong with you. It ain't, you know, just make it in. Stop it by telling somebody. >> What were your grandparents like? >>

Um, my my grand Oh, >> is this a generational thing? That's what I'm getting at. >> I don't think so. I mean, I didn't really I mean, my grandpa, World War II Vet, uh, my grandma, they were just stubborn stubborn people. My that's on my mom's side. I didn't really know my grandma on my dad's side. I knew my grandpa. He was a he was a Christian guy the whole time, you know, that I've known him or knew him. My grandpa, he was just a stubborn old guy, you know, just a mean, grumpy guy. >>

Sounds like my grandpa. >> Yeah, this dude, oh my god, that I don't Know how he lived as long as he did either. He was in so many accidents. He fell down. So he lit he worked at Quaker in Iowa. He fell down a an elevator shaft down like all all the pipes down below I think like four stories. Lived walked out. Uh they got in a major car crash again. Metal just wrapped around him. Lived walked out. Just this dude would not die. I remember when I stayed there one one summer. What was it?

some I was listen to I think I wanted to I was watching a TV show. He wanted to listen to music. So he would turn his [ __ ] off. I would turn the TV up. He would tell my grandma go tell that little I could hear him. Go tell that little [ __ ] to turn that off and get outside. He was but he was I mean he was a he was a happy guy. But no, I mean that's never they were just kind of mean. They were Never abusive. They were just you know

disciplined. I would say old school. >> Yeah. Just old school. You know, the re the reason I was bringing that up is, you know, you see a lot of families, if that's what you want to call it, but um you know, this gets carried on from generation to generation to generation. It becomes like a generational curse. >> Yeah. >> In fact, I got um somebody on my team uh who's been through a lot of that kind of Stuff. Sounds like a very similar situation. And so, you know what I want to ask and I always

commend him because I know where he came from and you know, I guess I can't I can't say I know where he came from and and know what it's like to go through that cuz I didn't I didn't I was fortunate I didn't have to go through that. But I always tell him how proud of him I am that that he broke the curse. >> Yeah. and that his kids are his kid is Uh is is doing awesome and won't have to experience any of that. >> I think for a lot of people that do

it that's their a lot of their fear >> I think. >> So what I want to ask is and that's why I was asking about your brothers and sisters too to see if they were able to break that. And so with you, I just want to ask, you know, what what does it feel like to to break that in the in the family line lineage? >> I mean, knowing my kids, it feels great knowing my kids have to go through that. I mean, it's it's a it's it's something that would I'm glad they never have

to experience, but a lot of times when you do break it, if you never talk to them about it, it can come right back. So, I think that's that's all it's it sucks to have to talk about it, but talking to your kids about it, even if you because you don't know if they're going through it or not. I guarantee my Mom had no idea, obviously. So, I think having those conversations with your kids and letting them know like, hey, people shouldn't be touching you here, touching there, and if they say, don't tell anybody, you

better tell somebody regardless if they threaten your life or someone else's life because they can't do nothing to you. I guarantee you they can't. >> It's just it's just an empty threat. >> Especially knowing one I know now, >> man. >> Scary [ __ ] man. Scary [ __ ] >> Yeah, cuz the moment law enforcement gets involved in the scene, it's not a Hollywood movie. They're done. I mean, they may get away with it, but they're going to you're going to be pulled away from that environment completely. Yeah. >> So, either way, you're still

protected. >> Yep, man. Well, once again, man, I just thank you for going into that because I think it's important to talk about, you know, for the for the upcoming generations and uh and uh it seems to be happening more and more and more >> as time goes on or at least it's exposed a lot more and um >> well, it goes back to like I was saying the accountability they think people cannot be there's no rehab for that. They should never see daylight ever Again when they do that. >> Yeah, >> that's the problem.

>> I'm with you. >> So, let's get into the military stuff. >> When did you join? >> So, I decided to join the Marine Corps when I saw Full Metal Jacket. So, I think I was what 89 or something like that when I popped out. So, I knew I was going to join. I still had I still kind of was going to do the army. Uh but Being the hoodland that I was, I saw that I was like, you know, I need more of that. I knew it. Uh so I'm talking about the boot camp

scene, not the after. I actually I don't really watch the whole combat part. I just like the boot camp and it's awesome. Maybe I'll I'll see if I can find it, but I got a picture of my kid now. I I still watch it. I was downstairs downstairs watching it and it just kind of started. My son literally Stood there during the whole entire boot camp part of the movie and was just watching. Then I I stopped it just before uh uh Goomer freaking whacked himself. So I was like, "Okay, you know, how'd you like

it?" He said, "That was cool." I'm like, "See?" >> Oh [ __ ] >> Um so I end up doing the delayed entry program uh in the Marine Corps. don't go to boot camp, but it does kind of help towards promotion. So, I did a you kind Of sign a thing saying you're going to do it. You have to go through like the weekend stuff. So, that kind of helped me stay out of trouble. Um, and then uh yeah, then uh November of 95, I went to boot camp and and I'm going to tell anybody

if if you cherish holidays, don't go to boot camp during holidays. It'll ruin it for you. I used to love Christmas. No, I was just kind of like our Christmas tree was a was a red light red Lens flashlight in the tree. >> Nice. >> And we had to sing old old Christmas tree to it. >> So boot camp was I thought it was easy, man. I mean, if you're physically fit, it to me it was it was a cakewalk. I mean, I didn't mind getting yelled at. I got slammed a few times, but I

just giggle just like this is awesome. >> What did it feel like to get the hell out of your family predicament? Uh, oh, So I kind of left when I was in ninth grade, I moved in with uh my best friend's uh girlfriend's parents. So I was actually I was when I got my job after my dad, my stepdad stole that crap from me, I kind of just said I'm done. And I left. Moved in with a stripper when I was 16. >> What? >> Yeah. And uh >> How did you meet a stripper at

16? >> One of my mom's friends. >> Was your mom a stripper? No, I don't know how they met. I think it was over drugs. >> Holy [ __ ] dude. >> So, moved in there with them and then uh with her and uh it was all normal at first and then it turned to more of a relationship. Um but then I ended up moving out and actually moved into the back of the restaurant I was working at. So, I had a bed back there and I was just go there and I'd sleep. did that

For a while and then uh then I moved in with my uh best friend's uh parents, his girlfriend's parents. >> So you you met a stripper who was a friend of your mom's and moved in with her. >> Yeah, she tried to Yeah. She called the cops on her and tried to get her for all kinds of stuff. But again, at the like statutory rape is what it was. But nothing was actually happening at that time anyways. I just wanted to get the Hell out of that place. you know, she had already had drug raids

done on her and stuff like that, so I just had to get out of there. So, yeah. >> How old was a stripper? >> Uh, 24. >> And this turned into a relationship? >> Yeah. >> What did What's going on in the house that you're living in when you're living with a stripper? What >> What do you mean? >> I mean, is it like what the hell was happening? Did they come home and there's a party every night or? >> No, actually she didn't throw any parties in her house at all. Um, in the apartment,

she never had any. We They're always across the across the hall. So, we just go over there, hang out with those guys more than anything. >> Jeez, dude. >> Yeah. Um, but no, I mean, it was again, It was just a good way to get out. My actually one of my my best friend ended up moving in there too as well for a while. Um, yeah, it was a we again weird upbringing, but >> Why did you leave there? >> Uh, it just just wasn't very good. You know, it's kind of I don't really know

how to explain it, but it just kind of I think it was more of the relationship side of It where again you couldn't go out and she was going out kind of a thing. And then she then I know she was she had drugs. Again, I I just hated the drugs scene just because of my parents. Um, so I was like, "Ah, screw this." And I moved out and my boss again, he said, "You can go stay back here in the storage area. I mean, put your bed, put a bed, a dresser, everything back there,

>> man." >> Um, I just take a shower at school. Um, Until I moved in with uh my best friend's parents and then uh was really jacked up and my junior year and I was playing football, you know, staying with them. I said I had a third degree separation on my shoulder and I had to have surgery. Well, it came to a point where they actually had to go and yell at my mom because obviously they don't really have custody over me. So, she had to sign the paperwork for me to actually get the Surgery

done. So, here I am. I have my bone sticking up like this for about 3 months and I'm in a sling and I finally got the surgery done. Um, but yeah, they had to force her to sign the paperwork for me to get the surgery. How the hell did you find Christianity through all of that? I >> I think it started as a kid. We always went to church and stuff like that. Um So I always liked the music. It was just weird. >> All this is going on and you guys are going to church.

>> My parents, not really. It was mainly my um my grandma. Um God, I can't remember that. And then some other people in the family. Um some of the older ones that would like take us to church and stuff like that. So we did a well we're on welfare. So like if we wanted Christmas, Thanksgiving, all that stuff, we always Had we always went to the church to go get food, go get presents and stuff like that and see Santa Claus. It was always at the church. That's where we got stuff from. So damn tape.

But you know, I always believed in in God and Jesus always didn't really understand it. um got baptized as a kid. The second time I did it, I did it cuz of a girl. Man, I'm just whatever it's worth, man. I'm just really proud of you and getting out of that [ __ ] I mean, a lot of people never make it out of that. And uh >> I think I had one so get in a lot of trouble. Um I had to go see counselors and crap. I remember my mom was inside. This is

before they had the the white noise machine outside the counselor's office. Um it was some it was I can't I remember The office building was. It was on a academy. I think I remember exactly which building it was, but it was actually right next to the recruiting the marine recruiting station I ended up going to and but I was sitting outside the office. You know, my brother, my sister, we're all always in trouble. So again, it was just that family, you know, just getting in trouble constantly. they won't tell their stories, but I was there

and I remember, You know, my mom talking about us really not in a good way, but and then the counselor just said, you know, talking about me. He's like, you know, he's going to end up just like them. He's going to be in jail. He's not going to amount to anything. And that's I just kind of sat there, heard that, and I got up and I left. I never went back there, but I was like, "Fuck you. You ain't going to tell me who I am and what I'm going to do." So, that was probably

part of the motivation. But I still got in trouble. But I also I also kind of knew that fine line of what you could do and what you shouldn't do. >> So, >> how do you think you learned that? >> Uh just just from other people around you, what kind of, you know, the crap they got into, you know, what would happen to them. Um so I just learned like you you can only push things so Far. Like I never like got into, you know, robberies and stuff like that. Um, you know, this one just

just popped in my head. So, in Iowa when uh just when it was before I got into first grade, we had moved to this new house from the other one that were that that I had the babysitter at. I would sneak out like at midnight before first grade and I learned how >> first grade. >> Before first grade and we lived next to a college, so a bunch of, you know, apartments and stuff like that. A lot of people didn't lock their cars back then. So, I'd open a car and I'd steal all the change.

I did this for a while. It probably I think it was about the second month because I wasn't smart enough. I'd probably do it like you almost like every weekend like every Sunday I think is what it was or something like I like Was consistent. Well, these college kids decided to hold a sting on me. I think they caught me like at 3:00 in the morning. What do you do to a preirst grader that's uh >> so >> taking change out of your car? >> Oh my god. So they they grabbed me, right? I'm just

like I'm just a little [ __ ] I'm just like let me go. I'm cussing up a storm and this and that. >> What are you like six? >> Oh yeah, probably five, >> dude. >> And uh they're just like what the hell are you the one in here? You know, tell us the truth. Are you the one stealing it? we already called the cops and you're like, you know, we'll help you out. I'm like, yeah, I've been the one doing it. It's like, why are you doing it? Well, I want to eat cuz again,

we a lot of times we didn't. That was usually We go to the grocery store and steal and steal food from the produce section, you know? We got kicked out of Hi Ve a lot just cuz we'd sit there and eat. At least I did, especially if the strawberries were good. But and they're just looking at like, are you serious? Like, yeah, just, you know, usually I just go buy food with it. So the cops got there, they said, "Oh, no, he wasn't. He They told him that I was out wandering around." They didn't tell

me That's they told me, "Don't ever do this again." And I didn't. Damn, Tig. >> But no, the cops kept me. They brought me back to the house and I learned I learned a lie pretty good. And my mom and the stepdad like, "What the hell are you doing? What's going on?" I just I just started wanting to go for a walk. So, I got my ass beat, but not as bad. Just a couple spankings, couple slaps, not the normal beating. So, it wasn't Too bad. I forgot what I was talking about before that, but

no, I just I don't know. Just that just kind of made me talk. Oh, yeah. So, I didn't like it wasn't no grand theft auto. I didn't do no armed robberies. Didn't you know, did kind of quit stealing after I left Iowa. you know, we used to break into people's houses and garages and steal stuff, but um kind of again went to Colorado, stopped doing that stuff. Um Mainly for me, it was just a lot of fights. That was really it was about the only biggest thing I was cuz once I especially when I started

working, I was more about making money than doing anything else. I mean, hell, I was 14. I had a Mustang 2 I bought for 300 bucks. Um, the only thing I had to do is put new tires on it and traded that and got a 84 Blazer and I was always, you know, from a kid I was working. I was always Trying to make money, you know, even mowing lawns. I always try to figure out how to make money. Usually that's how you bought bought your toys, especially G.I. Joe's. So, I always worked for everything

that I had. Nothing was really given, even during Christmas and all that crap. >> Damn, man. So you were surviving >> from day one >> very early age. >> Jeez. All right, let's go back to the Marine Corps. >> Yeah. So went to boot camp again. It was it was fun. I enjoyed it. It wasn't to me it wasn't hard, but we had 84 recruits and only two drill instructors. So we got away with everything. I mean, normally it wasn't going to be that way. It would normally be like 50, but uh Bill Clinton had

a shutdown during that time, so everybody got backlogged. So anyways, got in there, wanted to do infantry. It was just a bullet catcher. Um picked up rank pretty fast because again, I just knew what I wanted to do. I I I enjoyed that stuff. >> You excelled at this? >> Yeah. You know, became an infantry squad leader, you know, became sergeant within like three years. So, I was a I was a squad leader within two years. So, >> what was it like for you? I mean, let me rephrase that. How close were you with your

guys in the Marine Corps? >> I think for the most part, we were fairly close. I mean, obviously, you had to separate the rank for the most part. You know, you kind of did, kind of didn't. Sometimes I I I think it's more hurtful to a unit than it is helpful, but a lot of guys can't keep that separation of the rank. >> Mhm. >> You get too buddy buddy and I that's where they want that cuz they're like I don't really got to listen to him. He's my best bud even though he's your squad

leader. >> Yeah. >> So that's kind of the separation. But the most part I think you know we'd always hang out. We do things what we could. But my biggest thing you know was again doing a lot of things I did in school. the wars and all that reading What a lot of the problem was was the guys the junior guys didn't know what to do if the squad leader got whacked or the platoon sergeant got whacked. So when I went in my goal was to make sure like my team leaders knew what a platoon

sergeant's job was. So they always knew like ranks above them and I told them you you got to tell your guys what your job is and what my job is kind of thing because again war happens people die if you don't know how to handle things and Move step up it makes you might not know everything but it it it starts guiding them in the right direction. So I always made sure you know that again like yeah they knew other people's jobs even radio. So even on the Marine Corps we saw a radio like maybe

once in four years. Of course that was back in the 90s. Now I think everyone has a radio but me being a leader is just making sure that they're that your juniors are capable of Doing your job and somebody else's job above you. That's what a leader does. It doesn't make doesn't you don't stand there and just be like oh I'm the all powerful. like, "No, they need to be able to step up and take your spot if something happens." >> Mhm. >> So, I enjoyed it. I mean, it was a lot of fun. I

They kind of made me the remedial uh guy cuz I was kind of I was an [ __ ] It wasn't nice. >> Um but so like all the guys who would fell PT, I was the one they send to in the whole platoon. It was fun. >> What did the stability feel like? I mean, coming from an environment like that into >> Oh, the consistent. I enjoyed it. It was way better. So, I mean, I was in 29 Palm, so that part kind of sucked, but I didn't really It doesn't bother me too much

because I already had a vehicle. If you didn't have a vehicle, It really sucked. So, I don't know if you know where 29 Palms is, but it's it's a miserable base, but training >> been there. >> Training is awesome. You can't get any more better training. Everything's livefire. >> Nice. >> Yeah. So, a lot of well a lot of guys that come from like Pendleton and other locations, they end up whacking other Guys because they're not used to adjusting fire and it's all live fire. So, you know, it was cool be able to call, you

know, mortars. We got to actually I got to call on a Cobra one time. You usually don't get to do that as a squad leader. >> Yeah. >> But out there, it's different. It was really cool. >> Did you deploy with the Marine Corps? >> No, we just did I just did uh uh Deployments. Well, I did, but not to combat. I did Okinawa, Thailand, Tinian, and Guam. That was it. And that was just all peace time stuff. >> How long were you in the Marine Corps? >> Uh, four years. >> Four years. >> Yeah.

I was gonna I was going to reup um and I was going to do MSG duty. I didn't want to do boot camp crap, but I didn't want to be a journal instructor. Even though it was fun, I didn't want to do It. >> I didn't want to do recruiting duty cuz I would I would come home and I would do recruiting duty so you can stay home longer. And uh so I wanted to do MSG duty. Well, I went went to the school and about a month into it, then you go in because you

do all the psyche val stuff and then they're looking everything over. It's a three-month school. You go down, I have my interview, and You know, they're bringing up things. You know, I again protecting people for the most part. Well, I put one kid in the hospital for about 3 days. Um, and I think it was my junior year or senior year. Um, but and they asked me, "Okay, what happened?" I told him, "Well, the guy punched a kid in a wheelchair and you know, he was like some like number one wrestler or something in Colorado

at the time." And, you know, nobody wanted to step up to him. But my Was I'm just like, "No, no, nobody's going to hit a kid in a wheelchair, you know, and I'm I'm the name the kid's name was Richie. you know, he's kind of like a he couldn't really move himself either. You know, he kind of could and stuff. So, even from junior high, I'd push him around to his classrooms if I saw him. Anybody picked on him, I would I would thump him. Nobody really picked on him like that, but like this guy

did. And so, my buddy's like, "Dude, there's No way this guy punched him." And he's like, "He's right over there." So, you go ask him if he says something. I'mma floor him. And I remember my buddy Josh asking him, "Hey, I heard you you punched Richie in the chest." And he started laughing. Hell yeah, I did. And I blacked out. Yeah. And I guess they for what they said, it took 10 teachers to pull me off of them. >> Good for you. >> So they brought that up and then they brought up my childhood thing

with the with the guy molesting me. So they actually used that against me to kick me out of the MSG school. >> Are you [ __ ] serious? >> Mhm. >> That's when I was like that's then that that's when I said, "Fuck this. I'm leaving the core. Holy [ __ ] Why the [ __ ] would they use that against you? >> I have no idea. >> How did they find out about it? >> Because it was in the police records. Cuz it's even though it's your your kid, but they they can look all

the way back. >> [ __ ] man. >> Yep. >> So, you felt betrayed again? >> Mhm. >> And you got out. >> Yep. And then once she Well, once she knew I well that that kicked me out Because what they said they said you need to go see a shrink and get this dealt with before you can go over there. I'm like deal with what? It's not my [ __ ] problem. It's not my fault. And they I said [ __ ] this. So then I got shipped back to my unit. My ex found

out. She got a hold of me and then when I was in Okinawa and then I came back and we got married. [ __ ] man. So, you left all that stability for what felt like a betrayal Again and then what did you do from there? >> Uh, well, I got out um when it uh she got stationed in Washington. She was in the army. She had joined and uh so I was stationed in Washington. I tried to be I tried to do the whole uh dependent thing. try for about two months. I could I

dude I had to work. I was I was like, man, I'm gonna go to Subway. I got to go do something. And finally, I Just went into heating and air conditioning. Actually started off as a gas piper. So, just, you know, doing gas lines and stuff like that. And then 9/11 hit. Um, I remember, you know, getting ready to go to work and watching, you know, hearing about the first plane and watching the second plane. I just looked looked at her said, "We're going to war. this is an attack. And uh so I told the

um I called my bos my boss said, "Hey, I'm not coming in. I'm going to the recruiting station." So went to recruiting. Of course, they were pissed. They're like, "Oh, this ain't no big deal." I was like, "You guys have no idea what's going on, do you?" So I went there and you know, they're talking with them and they just kind of look at me. I already had a 10 10% disability rating. They're like, "We ain't going to need you. We don't need no broke." Well, I don't I get it. They're like, we got we

don't need no Broke dick. We're going to have so many people join us. I was like, man, it's [ __ ] up. So, like, whatever. Went back and uh she ended up getting orders to go to Kuwait, moved back to Colorado. Um, this I didn't really know about contracting yet. So, actually started going to school for heating and air conditioning. The money was good. I mean, I was making between five to a,000 bucks a day. Um, so really wasn't money. reason why I did the job, but um just Hated it. I mean, it was I

just felt like something was missing. I'd just be pissed off every day at work. Like, you work your own pace. So, it ain't like I had so many things cuz you got paid by the job. Whatever you got done is what you got paid for. So, when she was over there, she found out about contracting. And that's when uh and then uh my I she came back in uh 2003 I think early but I still had to finish my school. Still wanted to Finish it and then uh she went and then I stayed and once

I graduated I went over in July 2003 to Kuwait for my first contracting and I was only making 13 bucks an hour. >> What was the first contract? >> Uh doing the gate guard stuff for Camp Doha. I got in a lot lot of trouble there, too. >> What kind of trouble? >> Well, you'd have guys coming back. You'd Have dudes coming from Kuwait, from Iraq, you know, from the combat zone. You know, you could see their combat units. They're coming down just for like RNR. Well, if you didn't have some kind of thing, piece

of paper from some colonel or something saying, you know, you're allowed to come on the base, they wouldn't let you on. So, I'm just like, you know, these dudes are driving, you know, from there to here. I'm like, I get you see your Highest ranking individual is here. And I tell them what's going on. I just let them on. I just say, you know, you're going to have a big issue getting off if you don't get this. They probably won't let you off, but [Laughter] >> have a good time. >> And when I was like,

just please do me a favor. Just don't tell them who let you on cuz I won't be able to do it for Anybody else. Well, they finally figured it out. >> Right on, man. So, so they put me out. They took me off gate, put me interior stuff and it was just like like whatever. But to me it was just [ __ ] It was like these these are coming. You guys are here in Kuwait. You can go out in town at the freaking mall and hang out. These guys are coming from a combat zone.

You can't let them come here and hang out, do some R&R for a Day. Like screw that. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. >> So, where do you go from there? Um that's when uh you started looking at the contracts that are going on again. You're looking 03 to 04, you know, that's when Blackwater really blew up with the the four guys who got dragged and hung on the bridge and stuff like that. And so trying to find companies that were reliable contract companies Cuz there are so many fly by night ones. I mean ones that

would actually >> they do drivebys on military bases. I don't know if you heard about that stuff. >> Yeah. Some of these contract I mean Americans doing it's like what are you guys doing? So, >> what do you mean drive by? >> Yeah, like going by a military and shooting at them. >> Are you serious? >> When the hell was this happening? >> Oh, like the 0405. Like really the Wild West stuff. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah, it was stupid, man. So, a lot of it's just like So, you had to be careful.

Um, there's one that I know one a couple of the guys that I was doing security with, one of them was named Little. He actually ended up going with Blackwater, but um I was but he was going to go in there And do security work and I was like, "Dude, you're not you don't have enough training for that. You know, you you going from an admin guy in the army to doing PSD work over there and only going to do give you a twoe trainup." Now, him and his own team, I'm getting whacked like a

month in. >> Damn. Um, but it was some of the other ones again, they're paying you like 90 grand like for a month, two months at a time. But some of them, they're not even Going in with real guns. They're going like broomsticks painted as guns and all kinds. So, you got to be very careful. >> Yeah, I remember. I mean, I fell into one of those. Not quite that that bad, but uh I I remember my first contract was this one with Armor Group. Did you ever hear Armor Group? It was out of UK.

>> Yeah. I lasted about two weeks there and I was like, "Get me the [ __ ] out of here now." And um and then and and then I wound up getting picked up for, you Know, for the OGA program. But but jeez, dude. >> Yeah. So, end up going with Blackwater, put my resume in just before my uh because I could have left earlier. I mean, a lot of guys, they would break their contract, but again, to me, you sign up for something, you finish it. So I just finished it out. Um went home,

went to the training and uh after July, so sometime after July 04 or something like that, I went to BW, did it? Didn't Know who I was going to be working for. You know, you just Blackwaters picks you up, you know, and then did the training and next thing you know, I'm overseas doing work. >> What contract was this? >> This agency? >> This was This was GRS. >> No, Cobra. Get >> Cobra. So, I didn't know about GRS at the time. Um cuz you're supposed to So, yeah. So, I went there and then they

Kind of they were talking about it, you know, like I was like, "What the hell is this GRS thing?" They're like, "Oh, you know, they're doing like the the mobile stuff." Okay. So, I I get over to um uh Afghanistan and that's when, you know, you start learning things and, you know, knowing what's going on. And I actually end up getting airport duty. can't really say a whole lot was going out on out there, but there's some fun transfers going on, but so we actually Got it was a benefit to me. So, we would actually

do some escorts for some of the agency personnel as Cobras even though you're not supposed to >> cuz they're they're going we're going out the airport. So, they would just kind of jump in with us. We do, you know, we still had to do the SDRs there and back and stuff like that. So, I got to know the town as as a Cobra. Normally, those guys don't see anything but to and from the airport. >> Well, When somebody says you can't do something, I'm going say, "Well, I'mma prove you wrong." So, every time I would

come, I'd go to the the the TL for the GRS. Here's my resume. This is my background. I like, "Dude, you have to be eight years SF." Like, I can do better. I can do what you guys can do. So, 07, they finally said, "All right, go and do It." Because I got tired of I mean, I was coming all the time. I was like, "I can do I can drive around, right? So, I mean, but I had in the Marine Corps, I went to urban warfare. So, I was an urban warfare instructor and stuff

like that. That's like my highest speed thing I did. And I was the assault climber. So, you set up the lanes for the battalions and climb cliffs and stuff like that at night. So, I had, you know, some specialized, but you know, Nothing like SF guys. Uh, but anyways, so we went to Blackwater. I did, I think at the time it was like a four month train. >> Yeah. for it. >> Real quick, I just want to I I just want to educate the audience. So, when we're talking about back in those days, I don't

know, it might still be like this, there was the COBRA contract and the capo contract under the under the OGA umbrella, other government agency, which Is the CIA contract. And so, the COBRA sector is basically uh static security base. Um you're you're assigned to a specific base and you do you do all the perimeter and internals. um for that specific location. And with that being said, before we move on to the CPO program, let's take a quick break. Every day it becomes more obvious the world is changing fast and the systems we were taught to

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you can try it for free. Again, that's ziprecruiter.comsrs. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right, T, we're back from the break. We're getting ready. You just got picked up for the capo program, the mobile mobile program uh at at the agency. So >> So it wasn't it wasn't really smooth cuz this was like 07 and uh I had LASIC done when I was in 2002. So my eyesight was like really good like 2015 vision. So, we start going through it, start doing all the train. I can't remember exactly the how did it the flow,

but I think we did like the house stuff of the qualification at the last week of it like and everything else like the Shooting. So, I was doing really good and all that was passing. You know, the hardest one, I don't know if you remember, was the uh the 25 yard shot >> concealed 4 seconds, two shots. >> That was a kind of a pain. I was never really good with pistol, but I was good enough to pass. Dude, I'm just I just want to hear your whole training experience because and I don't want to

diminish anything that you've done or any conventional guys at all, but I mean I came out of the SEAL teams and I had maybe about a yearish break where I tried to do some business stuff and failed miserably >> and then wound up at that shitty armor group one and then wound up getting picked up. But I thought that that training package I think I think it was about a month long then. >> Yeah, it was it was tough. >> Right around the same time frame cuz I Left in ' 06 so it was 0708

maybe that I got in there. >> Yeah. >> And um >> that was [ __ ] tough, man. Those drills walls were stiff. >> Yeah. >> And >> the timing. Holy crap. >> Working with new people, working with other branches that did things different. I mean that was that was Challenging coming from where I came from with all that training. And so for you I mean I mean >> what did you think of that? >> I mean for me it was I guess maybe just being molded by the core. You just kind of adapt and

just do it. Is this how they want it done? I just do it that way. What you cuz I think even though like even that night I think even like Ran Ran and Jack kind of went back to their seal stuff for the mo just kind of Like cuz they were moving on the side of me going down. It was a little bit different that we were but I just started kind of flowing with them. They started flowing with me. Um and then they kind of broke off and did their thing together which again I

still think because what Rome was 20 years seal so I think you're still going to go back to some of that stuff. Mhm. >> Um, but you still have I think since you know the training of it is so long, you All have a base to fall back on. So you kind of have an idea what the guys to the left and right are going to do. So I think that's what helpful. But you know me doing like the vehicles and stuff like that. I mean that was all new. But um you know who Jake

Bant is? >> Yeah. >> So I met him doing Cobra. So I had a little bit of insight on a lot of what GRS was doing the training wise. So he kind of told me, "Okay, if You're going to go do this here, here, take this, go practice this stuff." So I had 40 acres. I had more gun range. So I did a lot of practicing back, you know, you got paid pretty good, but ammo's a lot cheaper then, too. >> So I had a bunch of ammo. I was just training every day, getting my

speed up, getting all that, doing my pistols. So when I went there, I already had an idea. I pretty much knew what they were going to do except for vehicles. CQB I Wasn't worried about because you know that that was a month-long train up I did just in the Marine Corps for CQB. Um so that for me that was easy. It's just I just couldn't shoot everybody like I did in the Marine Corps. >> So you know then the the hooded box drill that was freaking epic. >> Yeah, >> that was fun. I did enjoy

that part. >> Yeah, I thought that that was a really good exercise. That was that was that Was >> what did you find to be the most challenging? >> Um I think dealing with the staffers >> other than that I mean the training. >> Um just trying to remember all the all the stuff so fast and you know just the the wording on you know the vehicles you know cont just getting that knowing what to do how to protect the package and Stuff like that. That was kind of the hardest stuff. Um because a lot

of that stuff kept changing from class to class for the most part, you know, tie them to don't tie to them, keep, you know, and then the the deer thing was kind of a pain in the ass. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> But it is what it is. Um >> so we get to the final and my eyes started going bad. Like I woke up and I couldn't like see That glass, right? That the uh your water bottle right there. >> Oh. Holy crap. So I went into the eye doctor. I paid like 500 bucks to

get a prescription right away so I could see. So I went through it, got it going. Next morning changed. So every day I had to keep going back to the eye doctor um to pass. And then finally my eyes I don't know about a month later finally settled down. And uh so I kind of fought with that all the way up through even through Benghazi my eyeballs. But I could always made sure I could see and stuff like that. So I end up getting like uh the hard soft contact lenses and that really. So I

work contacts over there quite a bit. But it was that dude that week I don't know what what was going on but come to find out. Sorry. And uh I think it was 2017 uh about 3 months before I had to have a Transplants in my eyes. I had cornosis. >> What is that? >> Deterioration of your cornea. So, I had to get uh for Intax and there was something else. I forgot exactly what it was, but so they take these two plastic things and they reshape your eye. So, both my eyes got these plastic

things in them and then uh they put I forgot. Anyway, they put some other drop in there. Hardens up your lens and Stuff like that. again eyes just kept fluctuating and finally my right eye really starting getting bad again and they went in my right eye is an artificial lens. >> Damn. >> So the fact that I could even still see even the eye doctor you know they put I guess they're doing like a they did a whole study on me in in the eye doctor school now >> in the eye doctor school. I really

want to call it I had like >> school of optometry. Yeah, that one. I had like seven different surgeries on them. So, >> how many people made it through your vetting? Do you remember? Or was it TDC? >> It was It was uh TDC. Uh it I think only one person didn't pass. >> No [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> Damn. When I went through, there was only about three three or four of us that made it through. >> Yeah. >> And everybody else failed. >> It was It wasn't very bad. I think it was

only like five of us anyways. >> Oh, okay. Oh, >> yeah. Wow. >> But so I almost failed because um they gave me a mask where I couldn't wear my glasses. So when I was going in, they had the they had the package dressed almost exactly like uh the aggressor. So I went in the room. I could I was a 50/50 shot and I end up shooting the package. And uh but I remember luckily the other guys backed me up and they said he he kept asking you guys for a mask for his glasses. So

they didn't send me home. I had to go back through it one more time. So I got in one more chance to go through it and They said, "You better make it 100% clean." It's like, "Fuck, man. Talk about tense, dude." >> Yeah. >> Like now the eyes are just on me. >> Yeah. >> So, but I end up making it through clean and it was a they they they ran me through the ringer on those, man, because again, they're like, "You can't shoot the package." >> Yeah. >> I mean, there's no second chance. You're

done. >> Yeah. That's I think you're the only person I heard that got a second chance at that. >> Yeah. Who was it? Uh I want to see I think it was Dusty was doing the train up. I think >> I remember him. >> So Oh yeah. He was running me the what the I was like dude. And there all the other guys stepped up say hey he asked You for wouldn't fit. >> Damn. Well did you think of the job when you got over there? >> Pretty boring. >> Where did you go? Uh actually,

so my first two trips were actually in Iraq. >> Okay. >> Um the first one was the VVIP and then I was at the villa. The villa was just dumb. I think No, I think I might have did three trips, two trips at the villa. It was just dumb. I was just I didn't do anything. It was just going to the gym. I mean, I did like a midnight shift just in case the chief of station woke up in the middle of the night and somebody had to take him. But they wouldn't they wouldn't call

me anyways. They' use the other guys. So I was just like whatever. So but you know it was uh we had a couple rocket attacks. I remember uh it was July and uh not only I don't think any of the uh GRS guys knew I was even There as GRS honestly cuz I would just go hang out the Cobra guys because you know they're the cool guy crew. I was just you know. Anyways, so I remember being in the gym and they're getting we're getting hit and you know you go into the bunker and I

heard this one and just coming you knew it hit. So I I come out of the bunker and you know the staff's like get it back in here. I was like you know whatever. So I go out and you can see went went down end up Hitting um one of the trailers and it still smoky still all that crap. So I start yelling anybody in there? Anybody in there? I start going in and end up being uh I forgot what company he worked for now, but he ended up having a a piece of shrapnel just

sticking out of his chest. So, I kind of grabbed he was stumbling. He was trying to find his way out, but I mean it it jacked up the whole front. There was no stairs, no nothing, no more. So, I pulled him out, Got him out, and I sat him down. I was like, "Hey, is there anyone else in there?" Said, "Just kind of sit down, relax." You know, I didn't want to lay him down. So, I sat him said, "Don't move. Stay here. Is anyone else in there?" He's just kind of like, you know, his

bell was wrong. you know, because they're, you know, you got two pods attached. So, I go back in there and I start yelling, "Hey, anybody in here?" Go back. The other one, "Anyone In here?" Nobody was in there. So, I go back out. Dude's gone. And I'm thinking, "Oh shit." So, I'm like, "Now I'm looking for this guy. He's got the space of shrapnel stucking out." And then go around the corner and actually a couple of the GRS guys are headed that way and got a hold of him and sent him down. So, I'm just

kind of standing there, you know, kind of watching, you know, just kind of like, you know, kind of listen to everything Going on. I already knew the trailer was kind of clear. That's the only one that got hit. And uh I don't want to say his name, but I remember him looking at me. He said, "You ate GRS, you get the hell out of here." Like, "Okay." I went back went back to the gym, started working out again. So, it was funny. Then, uh I went I went to go back to do the recall and

he was there. He's like, "Were you remembered me?" He said, "Just some dude just stand There." He was like, "Are you J?" Like, "Why don't you say something?" I didn't need to. You already He already had him the medical kit. I just What else am I going to do? >> Jeez. >> So, and then uh then at the again didn't do anything there. Then over at the VVIP, really didn't do anything there either. >> What's the VVIP? It was just like the uh just part of the airport where they Would fly in and fly out

and stuff. >> Oh, okay. >> But we would just run people to the airport. I mean, we do some what they call black ops. First time I learned about what actual black ops are. I was like, "Oh, okay." Anyways, that's the only thing we did out of there. And uh but I one of the they called it the White House. It was where they did a lot of the Can't really say what they did in there, but a lot of explosives were in there. Well, one of the guys was in there welding and a spark

hit one of the RPG blankets and just so we went over there. We had to get that guy out and really that was about the biggest thing. But that was over at the I mean he got jacked up. He not the front of him, but the whole back side of him just got cooked. >> Damn. >> Yeah. So he he was pretty jacked up. got him out of there. But what was that one uh um GB base, Eagle Base? >> Mhm. >> So I was I was there doing uh um I think I could in

Iraq I got all the [ __ ] details. I mean I was I was the only nonSF guy there. So like you know this whatever. So, I got to work out, you know, with those guys quite a bit. And that's when I now I can't remember his name, but um the what they call him, the Wolf of Baghdad, that one uh tank commander, Marine, >> I don't know. >> We have to look him. But uh so I was there on watch that night uh when they were cuz it was kind of cool cuz they had

to be on the radio. I kind of help because sometimes their comms wouldn't be all that great. So we'd kind of transmit if they couldn't hear. Well, that was I was there that night when uh he was in the lead and and he getting uh Whacked, one of the GB guys and uh so that was, you know, he was a pretty well-known Marine at the time. And I just that was like when I first when they were like saying, "Oh, he was a Marine, but he I knew where he was working at, but when I

saw it in the paper, it didn't say anything about what he I was like, okay, this is how they're doing this stuff." >> Gotcha. So it was kind of a weird >> Yeah. I >> was like, "Oh, okay." So that's when I finally I kind of My wife at the time didn't know who I was working for. >> You didn't tell your wife. >> But after I saw that, that's I said, "I'm going to tell her just because." >> What' she say? >> He's like, "Oh, okay." >> You know, no big deal. Then I >>

went for the CIA. All right. Whatever. >> I'm going to go play tennis. you know. So, but that no that was yeah so that was an experience but again those two trips I was just like this is so stupid then I got sent to Afghanistan for the first time as GRS and again I've been in Afghanistan for a couple years now you know so I knew the area so when you get there the newer guys usually they have to go out you know they they're driving around knowing the town you know my hardest thing was

like knowing this knowing this the Street names the the circles and all that stuff but I got it fairly quick and uh I remember I don't really say who it was again. I don't like putting names out there but I was you're not supposed to be play you play a lot of Call of Duty you know you play a lot of Call of Duty GRS. s in, you know, and I'm sitting there playing and he comes in. He's like, "What the [ __ ] Tig? What are you doing? What? You think you know the roads

now?" I'm like, "Yeah." It already been like only been like a week and a half. Like, "That's it. You're doing your test now. If you fail, you're out." Okay. Well, then he tried to get me. He tried to stump me as best he could. He goes he cuz he didn't realize I think he had I think he had just kind of shown up but that was when I was over in actually I started going to Harat. I was doing I did a lot in Harat so I don't think he >> I got a feeling I

know who that was. >> Yeah. Heavy cop. >> Yeah. >> He was second on my list. >> Yeah. So anyway, so he goes he's like, "How the hell did you know the city so well?" I was like, I've been doing this since 04 out here, you know. Oh, like, you know, I knew the I knew the damn city pretty. I just didn't get Didn't really know the names in the circles. I just knew how to get around. So, the hardest part for me was just knowing the names in the circles. So, >> So, how long

were you you went direct, right? you you >> so I didn't go direct um until actually it was like mid 2011 so I was over in uh Pakistan when the consulate got attacked there and uh I guess from from that one uh a Couple other guys that were like high in the food chain for GRS that were direct or whatever saw my actions there that day and that's when they said they want me to go and do direct. >> What happened that day? >> Uh the consulate got attacked. Nothing really major happened. Um it was

uh a dude came in with a car bomb initially blew up. Then there was a second one that came in. There was I think six attackers came out and they're just kind Of shooting in the air. So we're inside the consulate and trying to figure out, okay, we're trying to get a hold of the uh the State Department guys. Hey, what's going on? What do you see on your cameras? They told us uh post one had been already breached. We're like that's this that's serious. So they're already inside the compound. So me and the other

guy, you know, our gear was technically in our vehicle. That's where we just left it. You know, After that day, we never left our stuff in the vehicles no more. So we end up rounding up our own uh some other body armor, another weapon system. Then we go out. They haven't even breached the freaking outer perimeter yet. So we come out of the door like we're ready to shoot. You're like, "Well, they're talking about bad intel. Holy crap, guys." >> So he goes to the front, I go to the back, you know, they're just kind

of Shooting up. We're being told that the the attackers, they're in police and military attire. So I got the back corner of the consulate and it's pretty close to some other buildings and I'm seeing dudes running around and cops and military uniform left and right. I going, "Are these the bad guys or not?" I mean, they're not looking up. I mean, they got their guns, but they're moving people. So, we're just kind of standing there And uh there's a big ass tree, so we couldn't engage. Um the uh D there's a couple DS agents that

was up there. I think there was two DS agents up there with me and the other guy. And then uh um a couple more on one of the other buildings. I think there's only like three buildings at the consulate, maybe two. But then uh probably about 5 minutes into this thing just they lit off like 1500 lb of TNT Collapsed the building. Dude, it was it was pretty crazy. And then uh I don't they asked me if I got knocked out or not. I remember getting up off the ground, but I don't remember if I

was knocked out or not. Uh I just remember a guy got smacked by one of those the big AC panels. And uh yeah, that was other than that, that's really all that happened. body parts from these guys are flying all over the place. The funniest one, Actually two, well, maybe not funny, but it is funny. One of the dudes got, you know, the fences had the the gaps in them. One of the dudes by just like impelled. The other guy had his his upper torso finger in his nose. And I was just kind of funny.

>> That's all they always are. His finger in the nose. Oh jeez. >> But I mean that that was really it that happened. But after that, I guess they Then again, you don't hesitate. I guess they're like, "Oh, you're all right." You can go to direct. And that's kind of when I went to direct. >> Where did you go when you did you go right to Libya? >> No. Um I pretty much went back to pack. Went there a couple more times and then uh then it was over to Libya. So from there we flew

flew in flew into that evening and actually we started driving with the Chief of station from Benghazi when we landed up to Tripoli. So we stopped in Mstrada stayed the night again. I've never really knew anything about Tripoli except for freaking the Marine Corps song, you know. So we're just kind of driving uh taking turns, you know, through that hotel. I don't think anybody slept, you know, it's just a hotel. It ain't like it's a safe location. >> Yeah. >> You're just trusting the locals, man. >> So, you know, we had did the firewatch thing

and uh Yeah. Get up to Tripoli. Um I think we stayed in like another hotel, then we opened up a compound. >> You opened it? >> Yeah. >> I didn't realize that. >> Yeah. So, the agency was there first. We actually we went to the the old embassy, Went around there and I picked up a couple of the uh the security procedure books that they left behind. Says classified on it. Whatever. I picked them up, made sure I brought them back. I don't know how. Yeah. I mean, everything was still in them. Like I guess

they couldn't read English, so I brought those back to our compound. But now then, uh stayed there. They found Yeah. then helped opened up the embassy. Then I left and after then I went back When I came back that's when I went back down to Benghazi which is good because I don't like the flag pole. So at the time it wasn't the flag pole cuz there was only uh four of us that did all the GRS guys that went up there. Then as I was leaving, two more guys came in um because they were getting

ready to open up the uh I actually got to walk through the other the the permanent CIA annex and again I think it was like eight Houses all had pools. I mean it was nice. >> Mhm. >> So that's the one that they uh they aired on TV saying it was the uh embassy that they broke into. They're jumping off the the balcony into the pool. That was the agency's compound. >> Interesting. I never went over there. Yeah, it was it was nice. >> I heard it was. >> Um but yeah, then I went down

there and Yep. did a lot of stuff down there. They went down and we did one of the um yellow cake sites, I guess, for Gaddafi where you had a bunch of the nuclear crap down there. And other than that, we did some runs to uh I would think I'm going to say burn. Well, I don't remember, but the city close to Egypt. I can't remember the name of it now. But other than that, I mean, it was pretty relaxed. I mean, even in Tripoli. Didn't really get too many stink eyes Like you did in

other places, but Benghazi was different, man. They would shake they'd come and shake your hand. Like, like, thanks for your help. Thanks for getting him out. You know, if you're in a coffee shop or getting food, somebody probably try to buy it for you. >> No kidding. >> It was weird. They're very grateful. So def definitely a different environment than anywhere else I've been. >> How long were you there before that happened? >> So first two trips um the first trip was 3 months and then the second one was 2 months then my twins were

born premature. So that kind of pulled me out early. So pro if it wasn't for that I probably wouldn't have been in Benghazi when 9/11 happened. Um, so yeah, so I was on my fourth trip down there when uh when 9/11 hit. And that last time, I mean, it was fairly quiet For the most part. I think uh Iran had just cap just kidnapped a few people um at that time. Uh but a lot of some politicians, you know, they're trying to kill him. It's their first election like 30 years. The police chiefs, I think

a couple police chiefs got whacked when I was there. Other than that, I mean, threat towards us really wasn't there. Um, but Bob, you know, he was just I don't know. It's hard to explain how what Yeah, it's just hard to explain. Bob just very risk adverse. Didn't really I don't think he understood our capabilities. >> Can you tell the audience who Bob was? >> So, Bob was the chief of base in Benghazi. >> The head guy. >> Yep. The head guy. So well in Benghazi then he had the chief of station which is overseas

the whole country but yeah he was the head guy in Benghazi at the Time and you know when I talked about earlier about the con even before the consulate do you remember when the the British ambassador got attacked? >> No. >> So he got attacked in between one of my trips and um again Bob was there but a different team leader and Bob told him no you can't go and team leader at that time told him to pound sand and they left. They're the only reason why that one of the security guys even survived Cuz

they were able to render him uh medical aid. >> Right on. >> So, and there was a time when uh we had uh the deputy chief and a linguist. They were probably almost about an hour away from us and they got hemmed up at a checkpoint and uh we're like, you know, we need to get over there. We get in the area. I mean, we don't go in there guns blazing. It's just you don't do that. is just in case Something goes south out there at the checkpoint, we can help intervene. He wouldn't even let

us leave the compound to go help to get in the area. That's just the type of person he was, >> man. >> So, again, for like the standown order, it was just him that that and well, there more more to it now that I know of thanks to Sarah. So, >> did you know Sarah when you were over There? >> Oh, yeah. Worked with her in a few other places. She She likes getting people whacked. >> Yeah, she's really good at She still likes getting people whacked. No, >> dude. I see people trying to go

after her on on like especially on X and stuff. Oh, you're fake. You're fake. Dude, she's far from that, man. I worked with her in a lot of different places. We got some people whacked. >> So, >> we just brought her on the team. >> Yeah. >> Did she tell you that? >> Uh-uh. >> Yeah. I'm pretty excited about it. We've gotten pretty tight ever since that first interview. >> She's freaking She She knows what she's talking about. >> Yeah, she does, man. She does. Oh, that's awesome. >> Yeah, I'm really excited about it. But

so you've worked with her several times in different location. Where else did you work with her at? >> Ma mainly in Pesh. I think that was my funnest place. >> Why do you say that? >> Oh man, cuz we got we got some HVTs whacked in that place. >> Nice. >> And it was cool. A lot of the places you go like they don't tell you about like What you're doing, why you're doing it for the most part. Mhm. >> They're they're like, "Oh yeah, we're going after this guy. This is how we're going to

do it. This is what you know, you I need you to take this, do this." And so he got more involved in actually getting these dudes whacked. It was It was awesome. >> Nice. >> So I think that was And it was just like you're always working. I mean, it was it Was always work. >> You liked working? >> Oh, yeah. It was great. >> You didn't like the flag pole booze booze cruises? >> No. Time just goes by too slow. >> Yeah, I didn't like that either. I like to work. >> Yeah. >> So,

that's what you're over there for, man. Over there to work, get things done. >> You know, I remember we almost got we almost got uh killed at a restaurant, but an asset called about a half hour before the meet and said, "It's it's an ambush. They're going to kill you when you're there." So, we pulled. We still went and did counter surveillance. And sure as [ __ ] they they pulled in there and went in, but they didn't their head their lead guy. You can see they're stupid cuz they all got out of like the

[ __ ] van and they're like standing there And the one guy walked in then walked out and you could tell he's like throwing his hands up and they got back in and they left. There were six of them, all AKs hajied out. Yeah. >> Well, let's get into the night of the September 11th. You ready? >> What day is that? Yeah. What do you want to know? The short version or the long version or Just the >> the long version. >> So, well, getting Sarah was there and actually I was doing this one um

kind of like gathering stuff. She showed me how to use this one of one of the equipments. And I ended up actually having that there when we went we took the I took the deputy the the chief of base, deputy chief of base and another case officer That morning over to a meeting with the local intel service which is the first time they ever met them. And it's the first time they ever been to this location which actually happened to be right across the street from the consulate on the second floor. And so I had

this thing, you know, it was running, you know, collecting all the data. people are on their phone and stuff and you know and I actually I took it in the office with me cuz I went Upstairs and just kind of cuz I just wanted to see what they could see and I'm just remember and red flags going off like they have this thing right across the street they can see inside the comp and you can see everything I like this is just weird and you know I sat there for a little bit then I went

outside cuz the vehicle is just out in the parking lot unsecured for the most part so I didn't want to leave it alone I was the only one so so I went back out There kind of hung hung out in the vehicle just watching the door and watching you know whatever you could. Well, they come out and they're and they're talking and you know and uh we're like, "Hey, you need to take us over to the consulate." It's like I'm like, "Okay, no problem." And there's as we're going and come to find out that there

they got a um intel that there was going to be an attack on a government facility that day. So, the ambassador was there. Um he just got in there the night before. So, it was kind of like to inform him. This is early morning still. I think it was even before breakfast. It was pretty early. Go over there, let him know just in case he was going to plan on doing any more ops off base cuz I think Ran and uh and Jack had a movement with him that day cuz we were augmenting our security.

We shut everything down so we could help them on their moves. So, I think that Kind of shut one of his moves off that was supposed to be off base. Um, so I kind of come back and you know I I take the that thing that I had and I was like that's probably pretty good and I download it all into a USB drive and I put it in my locker waiting for Sarah to come back cuz it was you know that's the targeting package kind of a thing. And uh so anyways, not thinking of

it. Rest of day goes by normal. I think Oz was the only one who had a movement um that Day besides me with uh uh the female case officer and it was like some kind of meeting she couldn't cancel. And the next morning me and Ran were supposed to be um part of the detail that took the ambassador to the Persian Oil Golf Company. And when Ran was talking with them and they're like, "Well, we're just going to let the local driver drive us do the route." like no we're not. So there I I was

like I think I know exactly what they're talking About, you know, cuz again I've been there longer. I've drowned, you know, and actually I think I did a meet there once. But anyway, so I went there. We found exactly where it was at. We did a couple routes kind of checking um like checkpoints or block roads cuz they were still kind of doing each neighborhood had its own little click. So we're trying to make sure which neighborhood we could flow through. Nice. We figured it out. On our way back, Ran calls the The DS agent

says, "Hey, we got the we got the route. Do you want us to stop by now and we can go over it or do you want to wait till the morning?" Cuz they're like, "We're not the driver is not going to dictate how we're going to go." I mean, that you had an HVT with you and you're going to let a local like, "Oh, hell no." So, so they said, "Nah, we'll just wait till tomorrow." We were driving by the consulate and you know, it's nice and quiet and you know, Nobody's out in the road.

there was no big protest and you know you're looking between 8:39 or something like that. We go back, we get to the the team the team room uh team leader hushes in there and kind of let let him know what's going to happen cuz we're probably going to leave early, you know, so we can go and explain to them our route and timing and all that stuff so that they know where we're going in case something happens. I go to bed. They're still out there Jibber jabbering. Um Jack, he's on the on the computer talking

skyping with his wife and you know he just found out that uh he his wife was pregnant I think with their third kid and you know I'm just kind of getting undressed and next thing you know here hey all GRS to the team room just that call this is from Hush is on the radio and they're kind of like okay so I just kind of get out of bed you know and go to put my flipflops on and Like I need all GRS to the team room now. So, I start moving a little bit quicker.

Hey, Jack, I'll go figure out what's going on. Um, go out there and uh so I'm in building four. Then you have building three, which is the command post. And you have building one or uh building two uh which is um Tanto and OD's um um house. And then building one, which is actually where Oz was staying, which was the chow hall. That was the very front of the compound or the front Gate, I guess you could say. You can hear gunfire going off, stuff like that. You can hear a couple explosions, but it's Benghazi.

Um, there's a wedding hall. Try to tell people wedding hall right there. You'd hear people gun, you know, they' shoot stuff off. Then he then he comes up to me say, "Hey, we need to get ready to roll. The consulants's been overrun." A lot of people kind of they don't understand like they think it's being Attacked. No, they're he's saying it's being over it's been overrun. That means they're already in the compound by the time we get the call >> inside the gates. >> Inside the gates. So that's how fast it happened. So I run

back, tell Jack, we get our stuff on, we come out. Uh um Tanto and and OD they were uh the QRF. So they're, you know, they're dressed, ready to go. And I think Ran grabbed one of the vehicles and the Tanto grabbed The other one. So they were already staged by the time me and uh Jack finally came out. And that's when I overheard, you know, how many how many attackers are there? They're saying anywhere between 50 to 150. So there's this are all over the place. And I'm thinking, yeah, we got M4. So I

ran into the team room. I grabbed the grenade launcher in the in the beltfed machine gun, brought them out, you know, started doing function checks on that, waiting In the vehicle. I'm in the back seat. Uh Ran's the driver, Jack is the passenger, you know, just kind of checking, checking the trigger. Okay. Making sure I know which way's safe, which way's not safe, you know. been, you know, checking the gain launcher, checking the trigger, and uh we're just kind of still sitting there and it's like going, you know, these guys, you know, they're digging in.

You know, they're they're going to they're going to get the initiative. We're going to lose it. So, I get out of the vehicle and I I remember it's it's it's uh Bob, Hush, and the deputy chief of base. They're all on the front porch, and I I was out on the passenger side. I said, "Hey, you know, we got to get over there. we got to get get over there now. We're losing the initiative. It's going to take us a lot harder to get onto this compound and rescue these guys. And Bob goes, no, stand

down. You need to wait. I'm like, what the [ __ ] What the [ __ ] Are we waiting for? You know, there's nothing to wait for. We need to get over there. And he's like, we need to come up with a plan. We can't come with the plan [ __ ] sitting here. We got to come with the plan with our eyes on the on the target. There's nothing we can do from here. We know the layout of the compound. And that's when Hush goes, Tig, you know, shut up. Get back in the car.

So, fine. get I get back in and you know It's armored so they couldn't hear what's going on. I had closed the door and I got out. I said, "Hey, Bob just told us to stand down and you could just tell right then they're like he's not going to let you go." That's what it meant. Well, what Sarah and what OD would been doing for the years is actually digging into actually what happened more the investigation. Well, weeks prior to the attack, 17 Feb had told Bob, the commander, had told Bob That they were if

something ever happened, they were g they were never going to show up. That night, Bob actually got a hold of him before he told me to stand down that they weren't going to show up. That's why we're told to stand down. And then, you know, for them to sit there and say, "Oh, there's no evidence of a standown order. What the hell is that?" But again, how can you rely on it's a hostage rescue is what it is. >> You're going to send 17 Feb in there, which is which is worse than sending the Boy

Scouts in to do a hostage rescue. Some of these guys with the watching the State Department train don't even know how to reload a freaking rifle. So, it's like we are the and like in the movie, we are the only help that they had. We're the only support that would that could have made a difference. And that standown order is the 100% guarantees why Ambassador Steven and Sean Smith Didn't make it. They're dead because of that standown order. >> Damn, man. >> Well, people say, "Well, how how do you know that for a fact?" Well,

we they would have been engaging with us instead of setting the buildings on fire. They died of smoke inhilation. They didn't die from, you know, blunt force trauma, a gunshot. They died from the smoke, from the fire. So, So we end up, you know, it came down to uh I think it was Alec get on on the radio, the State Department guy said, "If you guys don't get here now, we're all going to [ __ ] die." And that was it. Rowan just put it in drive. We started driving. Hush gets on the radio. Wait,

wait, wait. I'm coming. We were leaving his ass. We were done waiting. We were done asking for permission. >> And Hush is the for the audience. Hush is the team leader for the GRS unit at The in Benghazi >> and his name's not classified because it's it's in the Congress uh congressional. So >> it's a call sign anyways. >> Yeah. So we leave, we get over there. Um I immediately engage with the grenade launcher. Um fire three rounds which that disperses the attackers which has allowed us to move on to the compound. >> Who did

you fire them at? >> Uh the attackers. So they were they were away out of range from the grenade launcher, but it's still they didn't I think they may have thought it was mortars coming in. They don't you know, from what I heard, they had no idea what it was because they've never been shot at like that with something like that before. It was just a 40 mic mics. So they dispersed. I went back to the vehicle uh put the grenade launcher in cuz I had no sling for it. Um normally I Had to attach

I one just those things you know you do your own debrief for yourself, right? I should have attached it right back to the gun. So, as what happened, normally it was attached to one of the rifles, but we had a temporary team leader that came in and took him off, took it off the rifle cuz he's like, "Well, nobody else can use it. Just grab the damn gun that's had it. It doesn't matter." >> Mhm. >> Anyways, so I put it in there. I had no otherwise I would have had it with me too the

whole night. But grabbed the uh belt fed and then uh Ran and uh Jack just followed me. We went down the road. um paused just outside cuz again we haven't really heard from State Department yet. I just kind of got on cuz we had now we had we're on the same channel as them. I got on the radio just to let them know hey we are coming on Kind of like hey don't shoot us. So when I said that Ran Ran got up and started taking off. Jack got up moved in. As I was starting

to follow behind them cuz you know the agency we have all the high-tech gear right? You know, we got the the throat things, the the brain things that feed the radio, right? [Laughter] No, we have the still we have the old school clipons worse than freaking law enforcement. So, I'm trying to clip this Radio back on my gear cuz we're whole high speed. So, they're running in front of me. Next thing you know, I start getting shot at. So, I dropped down. The militia men that were with us, well, actually at that corner when we

showed up, they actually followed us down. I didn't realize that at first. they they opened up on fire and whoever's firing at at me because I was kind of looking down so I didn't know where the gunfire came from. So I dropped and well while They were firing I was able to move up to a jersey barrier and get the machine gun up and I was getting ready to start put my nods back. I was ready to put my nods down when some local just walks out of the darkness. Hands up 17 Feb. Don't shoot.

Don't shoot. Just like where the [ __ ] this guy just come from, you know? Again, I I don't know. No uniform. know nothing. So he could have been the one shooting. I have no idea. So I look at the guy next to me, you know, a little Little [ __ ] guy, you know, just he looks at me and he just kind of shrugs. I'm like, "Okay, whatever. I don't jerk durka." So I just kind of got up, moved in the compound, and uh first thing you see is the main village is engulfed in

flames, black smoke coming out. Uh the building off to the right which end up being the 17 fee martyrs brigade. That was the that was the QRF that the state department was relying on in case something happened. So they had four Guys that stayed there. Um but from what I heard they actually those four guys actually did shoot back a little bit before they took off. So from what I heard they actually did try to fight. Don't know for sure. But anyways that building was completely engulfed. I just kept, you know, going as I'm going

forward. There's a guy walking from that building getting I don't know, you know, who's all in the State Department compound. No weapon, no nothing. Just Walking, you know, flip-flops, white shirt, just nonchalant. I'm just like, this is so freaking this out here just happened. Oh, before we got down there all the way, we had a a local came out of his house and was had his cell phone in his hand, was yelling at us in durkaderka. We're just looking out. We're like telling him to get back. Get back. And finally, we just had to keep

going again. So that that guy's shooting at Us. This guy here, I'm like, "What the hell?" It's just some weird stuff. So you can't just shoot anybody, you know? Um, you know, we're not cops. We just don't shoot anybody. >> Just kidding. So I go up and I hear banging going on instead of I don't know where anybody's really at. So now I'm I'm out here by myself. Some local dude behind me. I'm, you know, I'm watching him just making sure He doesn't pull anything. He never did. And there, you know, they had like a

horseshoe uh fighting position. So, I I go up there and I'm I'm just kind of sitting there kind of just assessing, listening to sounds, watching this big orchard area that's all pitch black. I go to put my MVGs on. I couldn't because some of the spotlights were kind of like shining up high, so it just floods them out. So, you can't the night vision goggles are pretty much worthless. Mhm. >> Um maybe if I had your super secret, you know, 10 goggle ones, it would have been better, but >> doubt it. >> But uh so

I'm sitting there getting no no communication on the radio. Next thing I know, I hear a vehicle starting up. I'm thinking like, what the [ __ ] Oh, somebody's stealing a They're all up armored, you know? They don't have any like like we did, you know, up unarmored. So I'm thinking, oh yeah, I Got a beltfed machine gun. Got it up aror. Oh, we I'm going to shoot the [ __ ] out of this car. Right. So, I can see it. It's coming down the road. The lights are off. There's no lights on it. So,

I'm thinking, "Oh, yeah. They're trying to be sneaky or something." So, I come out from the side of the sandbag and I kind of got it up. Vehicle comes. It turns, dude. I'm I got the slack coming out of this freaking uh the saw. And I'm like, "Oh, that's going to be Awesome." And next thing you know, I see dude lean forward and end up being Dave Buben, State Department guy. I was like, "God, you got to be kidding me." I mean, how many people get to blast a government vehicle and not get in trouble,

dude? I was I was like, "Yeah." So, yeah. So, that didn't happen. And then, uh, they backed up. I moved up, kind of followed them because I didn't know what The hell was going on. And we had no comms whatsoever going on. And that's when I end up uh linking up on the drone. He's standing up on the on the front porch and I kind of talking with him and he's like, "Yeah, they don't know where the ambassador is." And I kind of look over off to my right and there's a they have one guy

laying there and then Jack's kind of over the top, you know, kneeling down over him look like he's trying to provide first aid. And I go, "You know who that is? Is it one of ours?" He says, "I have no idea." And I was like, "Well, hopefully it's one of theirs." You know, and then like um kind of goes like, "Well, I guess we got to clear this area now." And that was like the main villa area. And it's I mean it was huge inside. So we kind of move in pitch dark, hotter than hotter

than hell. I mean it was so freaking hot. It's kind of like being a um like just like a major bonfire but being Right next to it the whole time. That's I mean it was just intense heat. Um moved couldn't see anything. You know flashlight made it even worse. So you're just kind of going by feel. I go in um I think three times I went in and out. I don't know if I don't know if Ran ever came back out that many times, but last time I went in, I was like, okay, I'm just

gonna because I had kind of the layout because I'd been there a few times already. So, I was I just went to Where I knew where the safe room door was. You It was kind of like the outer door was open, but the bars were closed. And I yelled I yelled for Chris um as three I think twice as loud as I could. And actually somebody named Chris outside I could hear where it's coming from. He's like, "Oh, I'm out here." like that's not, you know, Stevens. So I start moving back out. I get out

and you know just that shouting, you know, changing those breaths and shouting I'm I took so much freaking smoke. So I'm hacking. Then I hear Ran. He's inside saying I'm lost. I can't find my way out. I'm lost. So I go back in and we just did a little Marco Polo thing and got him. Then we kind of just moved out. Um, and they're they're still going in and out of the safe because when we come out, the safe room's like right here. And you know, they're still kind of going in and out of that

room. And that's when uh um Tonto gets on the Radio say, "Hey, we're getting ready to jump the back gate." So myself and Ran, we moved from there over to uh the the road that separated the two compounds and started, you know, putting security up there. I remember Ran coming up said, "Hey, you know, thanks, you know, I hope, you know, thanks for saving my life." And I'm like, "Well, I hope, you know, I hope we can all make this out alive." It was kind of like something like that cuz initially I didn't tell Anybody

about the Ron incident because to me that was just who would believe it anyways. Well, I guess Ron ended up telling uh Oz about it because when I told the story to the author, he's like, "Well, what about this?" It's like, "How the hell do you know about that?" So, but to me it's like putting stuff in that to where it's only my word versus a guy who's not even here. So, I was just kind of like, well, I'm not putting that In there. >> Yeah. >> But anyways, so they end up jumping over um

but unfortunately when uh well, nothing really major happened but from it but the locals that went with Tanto and them didn't want to jump the back gate. So, they had Tanto open up the back gate. Tonto said, "Hey, you know, when you come in, close the back gate." Well, they didn't. So, we went over there, cleared the other side, came Back. I started searching in the in the safe room for didn't really know the layout of the safe room whatsoever. I kind of went in there a couple times trying to get the blast the the

blast shield things open so we can open up more windows to flood the smoke out so we can search easier. Um, cuz honestly, I didn't even think we'd get a follow on attack. I figured that had been kind of hit like, you know, again, thinking 17 Feb's going to show up, the police are Going to show up, they're going to lock this place down, right? you had a US he's had an embassy whether it was US or not but an embassy a foreign embassy in your country just got attacked in my mind you're going to

shut this city down right so I wasn't honestly wasn't wasn't thinking too much about a fall on attack um so went in a couple times kind of came back out um hush at the time I think it was like the third time I came back out well the first time I went in I Smashed my night vision goggles because again they're up here. Not thinking about it, just trying to go into this window. Freaking smashed, shattered them. So, lost those, jacked my neck up, but came back out and he's kind of, you know, get he

had all the uh um State Department guys and they're gathering up trying to figure out what they're going to do. He's getting them in the vehicle. He's kind of like I get on the radio Say, "Hey, I'm going to go in one more time." And he says, "No, I'll just stand by." You know, I think cuz we're probably going to evacuate or something. And I just said, "Yeah, [ __ ] this." You know, I took my helmet off, took my body armor off, grabbed my flashlight, took put my weapon down, finally learned what I was

taught in elementary school. Get on your freaking belly. Get on your belly if there's a fire. It works. I mean, I could see I mean, it Wasn't It was only like this much, but I could see pretty far. I could see the other doors. I crawled, went into uh out of that room, went into the bathroom, looked around the shower, the tub, went into the other room, u looked under the bed, you know, felt on top of the bed. There was a couple cabinets open just in case they went into it, the closet. And then

as I was coming out, an RPG smacked the wall of the room I was in. That was that was that was loud. And that's what Count that started the uh the second attack on the consulate. And it was pretty much just kind of kitty corner. It was just like the door was here. The other safe room door where I was at was like over here. So, I just, you know, kind of got up and just ran that way, jumped out, put my gear back on. Um, then I peakedked around the corner to see where the

the fight was coming from and was coming towards the back gate. There's a ladder that went up To the roof, got up on the roof, um, and let the just let the let everybody know, hey, I'm on the roof just in case something happened. I got shot, they don't have to go searching for me. Um, so I start moving to where the fire was coming from. You know, they all have like the 3-FFT walls around the top, so it's pretty easy to move up. As I came up, the guy who was shooting the RPG was

coming back into the front of the gate and getting ready to launch. I just did About a 10 15 round volley of fire. He drops and all the fire stopped. Um, Oz and who else got to see it? Oz and actually Hush uh said that I guess that volley of fire that I did nailed the RPG and actually did a whole Rambo thing went off in 90° angle. So that's how good a shot I am. I can hand RPG flying through the air. So that stops, you know, everybody kind of starts coming up on the

roof cuz we're still trying to figure out what We're going to do. The State Department guys, one thing that kind of irritated me was and While the the attack started, Tanto uh went and got behind their vehicle for, you know, protection. It's an up armored vehicle. Well, they actually honked a horn so they can get him off the vehicle so they could take off. So, again, this is their compound. They didn't even think of jumping out And helping us defend their compound. They took off. Jeez. >> So, they leave. They end up going the wrong

way. They got they got ambushed. I mean, they made it to our compound, but it um you know, they got followed all the way to our compound. We were still there. Nobody still No, no, they didn't know if the ambassador was kidnapped. He took off on foot. No idea if he was still in the building. So, again, we had no idea. Um So, we're just trying to figure out what we're going to do. Then, uh they got word from the drone that that came overhead that there's about 100 150 people moving towards us. So again,

he had like six of us and a linguist that looked like a turtle because of the, you know, the body armor and the helmet were just way too big for him. And then two, three dozen unknown people with us. Some in uniforms, some not. Some in shorts, some with guns, Some with no guns. It was just weird, man. So it was just like one of those moments that, you know, they made the call. We got to go. So we all get down. We uh loaded up Sean's body into our vehicle. State Department guys left him

with us. So we had uh Rome was driving. It was Hush. Uh Jack the linguist, Tanto, myself, uh OD, and uh Sean's body in the back. So we go, we pull out. We go back the way we came in. The one the other vehicle that We had, we had to leave. We left it cuz the three of us went on foot. So that vehicle got stayed. Um but that's also where the grenade launcher was. So if you watch the damn movie, I didn't lose a grenade launcher. That was [ __ ] Knew exactly where it

was. But there was like again dozen so people around the vehicle. We had no idea who they were. You know, they could have been part of the attack. So instead of us breaking seal potentially all getting killed Right there cuz they had, you know, gun trucks with discas mounted to them. There's, you know, nothing we can do with that. So we just kept going right on by them. Like we're just neighbors. So, I >> mean, what's going through your head when they tell you 100 to 150 people are moving towards you? >> It's like, oh,

that's a lot of people, you know, it's you're just like hoping they don't hit you. I mean, one thing I've learned though is what I try to tell people is they're shooting at you, you're probably not going to get hit. It's the one it's it's the ones that shooting at somebody else is ones that's going to hit you because I've really rarely see them just kind of shoot like we do. They kind of do the whole spray prey thing. So, yep. So, we get back to our compound, we dismount, and uh we get attacked probably

within about an hour. Uh >> what's the discussion like when you get back to your compound? >> Really wasn't. It was just we just dismounted and kind of went to pre-desated positions to defend the compound, you know, especially since they just came back and tried to hit us, you know. Well, they're coming back for a third time at the consulate. So, it's like there's no way this going to be a long night. So we just got out and we just kind of Jack went us he was already there. So he had the state department guys

when he got there he put he put one on each of the buildings besides building one. Um the two other guys one of the guys got pretty jacked up from the smoke inhilation that was with the ambassador. Um and Sean Smith he's you know he made it out alive. Um but then the other I don't know why the other guy didn't come out but anyways so there were uh three State department guys up on the roofs. We had four local guards and then we had two uh um spo with us as well. So they were

like they did all like the gate stuff and uh the monitoring of the the cameras. So they were kind of So the base was kind of secure for the most part. Um but we just kind of went and filled those gaps. I went to tower two, Oz went to tower three, Rowan went to building three, Jack four, and OD and um Tonto went to building two. So we can Kind of cover the zombie lands what we called it. That's where we kind of figured because the other ones was just chuck points coming up that road.

I mean, you didn't have to be in the front to really take care of that. I mean, it was just really easy. So, but I end up moving from tower two to tower three. And during this move is when we got attacked. I was actually carrying water to Oz uh when something came over the wall. Probably exploded About 25 ft from me, something like that. It was pretty close. Didn't get hit by nothing but dropped the water. kind of like trying to protect myself and I'm pat you know gunfire's going on but I'm just adrenaline's

rushing you sometimes you know you're hit so I'm just checking myself like okay I'm not hit uh get up in there you know and just start returning fire lasted you know felt like forever but probably like 5 10 minutes um you know Maybe 20 15 attackers you know but unlike the movie they had a lot of um concealment so a lot of times you can only see the flashes They're just again they're just shooting through shrubs. They're not like in front of it. They're behind it. So, um even even the night vision you couldn't you

couldn't see them. So, you know, we didn't have the uh the cool infrared crap just night vision. Um but And repelled that one. And that was probably about I think they said like 1:30 in the morning or something like that. 1 1:30. Um that's about the time they found the ambassador's body. He was uh inside the consulate in his room is where they found him. Um and the locals didn't know who he was, but the neighbor was there when he saw him. He actually grabbed him and I got to see the actual um u camera

footage from a cell phone. You could see it in his eyes. He was Already gone. He wasn't alive. But from the moment he grabbed the ambassador, dragged him up, threw him in his car, took him to the hospital. you know, pretty much the camera was just almost on his face the whole time. I mean, he was moving around, but yeah, you know, that whole there's a lot of things that people said, you know, that he was raped, mutilated, and tortured. That never happened to him. That's all [ __ ] None of that stuff ever Happened.

That's one of one another thing that kind of forced us into the book cuz that stuff never got corrected. Um, so anyway, so they found him about that time, but it wasn't verified until about 3:00 in the morning that it was actually him when we got the uh the pictures of him in the video. Um, so as we're sitting there, we heard that the team from Tripoli had just landed at the airport, but the militia that was supposed to show up didn't show up yet. And this is when we got the second attack. It's about

3:00 in the morning now. Um same same same same type of attack with RPG started coming over the back of the wall. Um there was a car actually that pulled up. Yeah, I wasn't in the tower. I was actually talking with the TL um at the time and cuz what I was trying to do cuz they uh they had everybody else kind of going to the rooms and getting their personal belongings. So I was like if we're going To evacuate we need to get our own stuff. So I went and got my stuff and I

was kind of talking with the TL at the time and that's when I knew about the ambassador and all that stuff and that's and then a car somehow got towards the back gate where the jersey barriers were. So it couldn't get to us. It was about 50 yards or something like that. Um dude gets out. Oz sees him. He goes to go throw something. Oz drops him and that's when an RPG flies over and I head Back over to the tower engaged. That's when I end up getting uh some guys moved around the from the

they flanked us. That's the only maneuver they did. And so I end up getting shot in the side. Plate stopped. It still hurts. Let me tell you, it still hurts. Um, now unlike the movie, I didn't lay down and sit there for 5 minutes like a little baby, you know? I kind of buckled me, put my hand up underneath making sure I didn't fill a Hole. I mean, it was wet cuz I'm freaking sweating. And if I didn't feel no hole, but it hurt. Felt like I was still shot. Didn't feel a hole and I

just got back in it. Um then uh end up checking myself after, you know, after it was done, making sure I wasn't actually shot. But um and that firefight probably lasted a little bit longer. It was probably double the double the guys that showed up. U but I think Tanto and OD and even the camera guy said they They could see them, you know, some dudes crawling on their hands, some people getting dragged out. So we were hitting them. Um but and it was pretty pretty quiet. Then the the team from Tripoli um the militia

showed up. Tonto moved from building two over to building one to guide them in. That's where the whole laser we were, you know, I lasered two guys, but it wasn't to um to identify them as targets. It was to let them know that They were my target. They keep coming closer, I'm going to shoot you. And then Tanto used it because that was actually that that was just a a live laser. It was let them know like you need to walk in this way because they had no guns. But we had uh again the sheep

herders. They were still coming. Dude, it was weird. They were still coming, showing up and hurting the damn sheep. >> Are you serious? >> I'm dude. It was so weird. >> While all this is going on. >> Yeah, >> man. I know. So anyway, so Tom moved up. He did the lasso thing so they can kind They had our coordinates, but just to guide him in a little bit better. So he was just lassoing him in with the IR. So that's where that whole I we were lasering targets. No, we weren't. Anyways, so they come

in, they get there. Um, they go in, the team from Tripoli and the militia commander go into the compound and go to the, you know, inside the command post. Why they let this militia guy in there, I don't know, but anyways, then Bob, you know, he knew that Ran was there and I guess they worked in the teams together and stuff like that. Said, "Hey, you know where he's at?" And, you know, so he went up. Ran was introducing him to uh uh Dave Uben and and Oz and kind of I guess explained What was

going on when what I heard was what sounded like a mortar going off. It's kind of like that. You know, it's kind of hard to explain people. When you're next to it, it's really loud. When you're not, you can kind of tell what it is. Especially when you're in infantry, you do a lot of mortars. And I get I'm getting ready to click the radio. When Tomto gets on it, it beats me to it. Hey, I think I just heard a mortar. Anyone hear that? and Nike the Radio said, "Yeah." And that's when the round

the round hits. Um, and it hit probably, you know, 25, I would say, yards west and 20 25 yards north from building C. Um, small arms fire opened up same time and then those guys opened up. So, I just kind of looked and I see the explosion. So, I go back to my area just in case cuz again, you're waiting for more attacks. So, like for just, you know, you got to trust the guys. They they trust me to watch that side. So Then I hear another one going off. Don't ask me how I can

hear these things. But that one comes in. It hits kind of tags the top of the wall but blows up on the other side. So you know I'm looking at the explosion that end up taking out Dave Uben uh cuz he had taken his helmet off and he got a bunch of shrapnel to the forehead. So that dropped him. Then I heard another round going off and to me from my angle that one hits here. That one hits here. I'm Thinking because they want to come to this area, they're trying to take out the tower.

So, I jump out of the tower and I start moving back into what we call the prison gym. And uh the round comes and it hits the top of the building and I guess two more hit right behind it and you know, everything just goes quiet. So, I'm looking at the building. I'm like, "Holy shit." So, I get on the radio immediately say, "Hey, you guys up On building 3? You guys okay?" Hush gets on the radio, says, "Yeah, we're okay in here." I'm like, "You shut the [ __ ] up." I'm talking about the

guys on top of the building. Jack gets on the radio. He's over on building four, which is closest to building three. Hey, Tig, I got no movement. I can't see anybody moving. So, I start sprinting over there. Um, start going up the ladder again with the small arms. You know, the wall, you know, it doesn't go all the Way up. So, as I start uh getting the crest of the wall, I'm checking my six, you know, as much as I can to still go fast. And then I just kind of jump over over here on

the left hand side is one guy. He's got his pistol out. So I start talking to him immediately. Um say, you know what? I you know, hey man, you going to be okay? You know, stay calm. I got you. Got you. Had my uh actually end up having Oz's go bag instead of mine. Um cuz mine got left in the vehicle over At the consulate. I didn't lose that either. It got left in the vehicle. So, I start going through Oz's stuff trying to figure out where his tourniquets are and stuff like that because Jack

uh Jack um Uben, his uh left leg, left arm almost completely served off. I mean, it was just shredded. So, if if you actually watch the movie and they show Oz's arm and stuff, that's what Dave Ubin's leg and arm looked like. It was just shredded. So, I go for his leg First, start getting it on, you know, and then but before I started this, I got on the radio said, "Hey guys, I need I got men down. I need help up here. Then I started going to work finding things and got the tourniquet on

him. Uh got the second tourniquet on. I'm trying to look him over. It's still dark out and it's kind of like the blue light kind of a thing. So it's not light enough to really see, but you can kind of see shadows. So I'm trying to look at Them as close as I can without busting the flashlight out because those are pretty accurate freaking mortars. So there's got to be a spotter somewhere. >> So for your audience, again, a spotter is somebody who sees what we call a splash, which is the impact. And then they

tell the mortar team how to adjust. So that's what I was afraid of. So they see movement, they're going to relaunch them or something. So I have no idea why they stopped. So I look them over as best I can. Um I said, "All right, this, you know, right now is the best I can do. I got to cuz I know there's dudes with other stuff got to be blown up." And uh I grab my stuff, get on the radio, say, "Hey, I got guys down. I need help." I go to turn. That's when Dave

said, "Hey, give me back my gun." I'm thinking, "Oh, fuck." you know, he always, you know, you're always taught, you know, don't give somebody back, especially when they're give back Their gun when their bell's been rung that bad. But I also thought, you know, it might help keep him calm and stop give him something else to think about besides going into shock. So, I just unloaded it. You know, he took the mag out, racked the round out, and just handed it back to him. I I doubt he realized I did it because, you know, still

dark. I mean, I had my back turned towards him, but to me, again, it was just that try to keep him Calm kind of a thing. So, I got up, started moving across. There's one guy just laying flat in the middle of the building, not moving. Um, keep moving. Uh, there's like a we had a little water tower thing. The water, you can just hear it flowing. I didn't know what it was at first, but I could see somebody kind of laying against the wall moving. Somebody else was laying down in the fetal position, but

you know, it's kind of went straight to the guy that Was moving. End up being Oz. Um, he's just kind of sitting there. I think he saw me coming and he had his tourniquet out. I think he was starting to do it to for himself, but I think he saw him. He's like, "I got, you know, he'll I'll just let him put it on." Oz is kind of lazy. I mean, you interviewed him. You kind of know. So, he's just kind of, you know, just like bouncing his wrist up and down. Hey, Tig, check this

out. Like, Literally, I mean, it's kind of limp, you know? It's pretty jacked up, but he's just like, "Hey, I think it's messed up." I'm like, "Yeah, quit playing with it. You're going to make it even worse, man. Stop." And he's like, "Yeah, but look." You know, it's just it was just one of those moments. And uh I ended up just last time get on the radio said I got guys down. I need help. And that's when OD gets on the radio says, "Hey, if nobody's going going to go over There and help, I'm going

to get off this damn roof and do it myself." That's when I hear Hush get on the radio again and says, "No, just stay where you're at. We're on our way." Not that they're coming up. I guess they're just now leaving the building. Um so I get the tourniquet on Oz. I get him up. Say, "Hey, can you walk to the ladder by yourself?" and he's kind of like, you know, he's seen Ran kind of right there next to him. He's like, "Well, I guess I Got no choice." And so I kind of guide him

a little bit just to make sure he didn't like collapse, I guess, you know, cuz, you know, they got to be that brain's got to be wrong pretty bad. So, he moves on. He was able to walk, go over to the third guy, which ended up being Ron. Um, flipped him over onto his back, checked for a pulse. Never got a pulse, but his throat moved. So, you know, for me, adrenaline could have been pumping. I don't really know. So, I kind of sat for a second, too. Another second, didn't feel anything. Uh, ripped off

his body armor, lifted up his shirt, you know, tried to, you know, do a look, listen, and feel again. Couldn't really see too much, but I was at least trying to see if I could hear or feel a breath. Couldn't feel anything. And that's at that point I was like, "Okay, I got to break out the flashlight." Got the flashlight, checked his pupils, No dilation. So, right there, I kind of knew he was gone. Um, and then with uh Oz, he was just going down the ladder. One of the Delta Force guys was just up

there and I was like, Oz is going to go down there. They're going to start screaming cuz Ron was already medic. So I just got on the radio said, "Hey everybody, Ron's gone." Went over to uh the the fourth individual um again rolled him over. And initially When I when I saw him again, it was still kind of dark. I thought it was Jack and like process everything really quick, but I'm like, "Oh, wait a second. No, now I can cuz I was just talking to Jack. He's over on that building." So, but did the

same process to him. Uh did a pulse check, look, listen, and feel people dilation. There was nothing. But this time, after I finished this, I could hear Um I don't remember if it was a team leader or it was the country team leader, but they're like, "Hey, we got to hurry up and get off the building. We got to hurry up and get down." So this time, you know, the whole time I've been up there, there was no fire, you know, no shooting going on, no nothing. In my mind, though, I'm I'm just like at

this point, um there's no rush. Motors keep coming in. We're all dead. These buildings are not designed to handle Freaking mortar strikes. And you know, it was by the grace of God that that building even stood by getting it was three 81 mm motors they say it got hit by. I mean, that's that's insane. But where it hit was directly cuz the the walls over there, they were like, you know, about a foot and a half concrete walls and that's where the mortars hit right in a row on those walls. >> I think that's the

only reason why it stood. >> Wow. >> So I went over, you know, again, they're like, "Hurry up. We need to get off." I saw them. They kind of they had Dave Uben, you know, the Delt Force guys and about again about the only thing they really did was they built the backpack kind of human backpack to get Dave Uben off the roof. So they got him down and I'm just collecting the weapon systems. I'm going over went over to Ran uh and grabbed his guns, checking his pockets For like wallet or anything just in

case we had to leave him because it may have happened, right? So then, you know, before I left, I knelt down, said a prayer over him, went over to uh uh Bub at the time. Again, didn't I really didn't know who the hell he was, never worked with him. But again, same thing, checking his pocket, checking for wallets, case wedding ring, and didn't know. Trying to check as much gear as I could. Uh said the prayer over him. Then I got down. At this time, they're just getting a stretcher around for Deuben. So, I go

in, I drop all the weapons off. I go back. Ozie, they got him laying on the ground. So, I'm stepping over him. They're cutting his clothes off. I go straight to the back, which end up being our uh our medical room. I guess it was the kitchen, but it was our medical room. And I'm trying to open up the blast doors. That way, they could bring him in through the back versus the front Cuz he was jacked up, you know, avoid the the staffers from seeing it, I guess, from seeing him. couldn't get the doors

open and got up like a fraction of the way and it was just too I mean that those borders jacked it up. So I go and I just grab three uh four more tourniquets and I got my pocket put them in the backpack start walking back around and two other GRS guys actually end up having Dave Uben and they were walking In front end passing by the two Delta Force guys. Again, at the time I didn't know I knew. I thought they're just GRS guys. They're like, "Hey, where you going?" I said, "I'm going to

go back towards the tower and watch that sector." And they're like, "Oh, you can't do that. It's too dangerous." I'm like, "What the [ __ ] you mean I can't do that? I've been up there all [ __ ] night. Not too So, we're like having a shouting match." That's when the country Team leader comes out. He's like, "What the hell's going on?" He's like, "I need to go over there and watch the [ __ ] sector cuz it's unprotected." And Del Force guy is like, "Oh, it's too dangerous. You can't go over there." And

he's like, "Fuck this. This is stupid." And then that's when uh Teener just said just just go right here. Just, you know, just stand by right here. I'm just like again, I got, you know, walls higher than the ceiling in here. And I'm like Going, this whole freaking area now is completely [ __ ] unprotected. >> When did the Delta Force guys show up? >> Uh just before the mortars hit. >> How did they get there? >> Uh with the with the team from Tripoli. So yeah. So any So we're just kind of just again

like this is [ __ ] stupid. And this is the dumbest security position ever cuz people could be literally sneaking up to our wall right now and Coming in. I wouldn't even we wouldn't even know it. They all of our cameras got shot out in that whole corner. Um all of our lights got shot out. So it's completely unprotected. You know, Boon might be able to see some of it over there, but again, you still had a bunch of shrub. You had a bunch of again sheep pens. They could be sneaking up on us and

all kinds of [ __ ] It's just like this is so stupid. Um but then I think uh one of the um case offers case Officers got a hold of another unit that was down there and they had about 300 strong gun trucks all that stuff. They showed up um again I think 7:38 in the morning something like that. And that's when the again I'm just standing there like this is so freaking stupid. The two Delta Force guys come back said hey we got to get the guys off the roof. And I'm like, "Okay, we

have, you know, there's a we got a tow strap that we use to pull the tires." And as we're Walking, I'm telling them, "We can I can go get it. We can lower them down." Like, "Oh, don't worry about it. We got this." So, we just need you to come and pull security for us. So, I go and I start going up the ladder. Pull security, right? Like, no. What are you doing? Just stay down here and wait. So, how do you want me to pull security for you while you're up on the roof while

I'm down here? And I got a wall that's like 10 ft from me. This is [ __ ] again, this is like this is stupid. So they're up on the ladder and I'm just kind of sitting there again like this is so freaking dumb. And and in my mind I'm thinking, okay, they're going to, you know, probably do the whole back backpack thing, you know, bring the guys down cuz we got time now. We have we have like three 300 man militia surrounding our compound. They got gun trucks. They're in uniform. They're very well organized,

very well Structured. So, you know, again, we had time. They lower them down and next thing I know and as I'm sitting here I'm getting up I'm looking this way back this way again it's another like a shed it so all I can really do is look forward but even in front of me I got a big ass generator house so I really can't see [ __ ] and uh next thing I know I see a body get put up on top of the the ledge and you know I'm still probably I don't know good

3 Ft you know from the outside the ledge and Next thing I know, they just push him off. He comes down right next to me, smacks. I can hear the the shoulder crunch. His head hit and then uh you can see where he ran into the cuz we had like um like really thick kind of rose bushes kind of sliced his stomach open a little bit and ended up being bub. And I'm just like, "Holy [ __ ] I can't they just did this." And then, you know, I'm still standing There and I think going,

"I know what's [ __ ] coming next." You know, the first one was kind of a shock. The other one was just [ __ ] miserable. And again, you just hear him come down, smack, you know, the you can hear the shoulder hit, then the head hits. And again, in my mind, at least try to lower them down by by their hands, something, let them drop, but just to shove them off like that was [ __ ] disgusting. Um, and then you know what they told the The the ran's wife and everybody's family was, "Oh,

we got them off respectfully." That's not respect. That was that was a [ __ ] disgrace. Um, you know what? There nothing you could do about it. It was done. So, couple other guys came around. I end up grabbing um Bub's arms and other JS guy grabbed his uh his legs, carried him around, got him Up on the bed. Um, and I know the Well, we go back to a little bit more cuz about the fight that we had sitting there that they that they're saying that I lied about what they did. They're saying again

they're trying to tell everybody that they got them off uh dignified and all that crap. They're trying to say that uh the Delta Force I hate bashing on guys kind of like the those dudes they got that kind of started this whole thing again. Um but they you know they got an award saying they went up on the roof under fire and all this [ __ ] There was no fire. I was the first one up on the damn roof. You know, >> they got an award for that. >> They got the second highest award.

Both of them. Second highest >> for going up on a roof. >> Yep. And getting Dave Uben off. That's all they did. And throwing Ronin Bub off. You know what? So when that when They came out and started attacking me saying I we lied about that that I lied about it. Oh, you I was pissed. So I started going through all the congressional reports. Well, there's actually another eyewitness proving that they threw the bodies off the roof in that report cuz he saw it through the back through the back door. He talks about it in

Congress. So now they're actually trying to up they're trying to get upgraded to the Medal of Honor as well. >> They're trying to upgrade that to the Medal of Honor. >> Yep. for showing up late. And in in uh again reading through his uh uh congressional report, they waited two to three minutes after the mortars hit to even come out. Dude, I was up on that [ __ ] roof in like 30 seconds. So anyways, so if you guys Yeah, there's there was a whole fight. I mean, you Know about that big fight and I

was pissed. I was going off. >> Yeah. They're trying to slander saying that, you know. Anyways, so just get him get him up on and then uh me and Jack were supposed to be the drivers for the flatbed. Well, he he kind of he kind of came al heard about Ran, but again, he didn't know anything about Bub either. And I guess he worked with Bub in the team, so he was on they were on the same team Together. And he saw him and I just saw him go white. He was just kind of like,

"Holy shit." it. So, he kind of got in the driver's seat and just kind of sat there and I looked. I like, "Dude, you want me to drive?" He's like, "Yeah." So, we kind of swapped. Um, we covered up, we covered them up with sheets the best we could. Um, so we end up going out. Everybody else is like, they're all in these sedans and [ __ ] all these fast freaking vehicles. And we got this [ __ ] flatbed 2 mph truck and we're [ __ ] just trying. I'm trying to drive this damn

thing, you know? We went the long route. We went through the city which ended up being 13 miles. But I just remember the militia coming up next to us like on the main highway. They're like like the cars were gone. We're like back me and Jack are just back by ourselves with two militia Trucks. I'm like I'm going as fast as I could in this damn thing, you know? So I'm just like, "Fuck, we're going to get hit going to the M airport." So we finally we finally catch up while they were still sitting at

the gate trying to get in. Well, the militia controlling the uh airport didn't like the militia that was escorting us. A lot of people don't understand is that militia that showed up that kind of that actually rescued us from that attack in the Compound was Gaddafi's military. So they didn't even know again our intel service didn't even know they were there. had no idea. Geez. So, we get we finally get in there. We pull up to the, you know, the bird that uh Bub had come down in on and State Department guys start loading all

their uh uh equipment that they pulled out of the consulate start getting loaded up. Actually, I went on the bird and I took my body arm because my side Was killing me. Just kind of took it off. Came back cuz I thought we're all going to get on this bird and uh end up I didn't. So my body armor left with without me. So again, one of those other things I'll never do again. But so we get everybody on all the non essentials. And Oz, he he kind of gets he was uh being uh I

think he might have the picture of it. I think I found it at one point. Anyways, He's in the back of the truck laying down kind of bandaged up a little bit. I think one of the militia men took took a picture of it. But anyways, so very expensive jet, very nice jet. It had a stewardist, very nice cabinets. Um, and so when Oz starts walking up to get up onto the plane, you know, she's standing there and just kind of looking at him and just eyes get wide. Next thing you know, she takes off,

you know, I'm kind of standing with Oz and just Kind like, I don't know what's going on, you know. And I kind of I turned and started doing something else when I guess Oz cuz he was going up on the he was just kind of going up there. And what happened? She was she ran to the back to get a bunch of towels to come up. Oz, you know, he tells it. He's like, "Well, I thought she, you know, okay, I'm still got, you know, bunch of pot marks all over. I'm bleeding kind of all

over these little holes." And He's kind of thinking like, "Okay, he's going to wrap him up and cover him up." No. She started covering up all the seats and the floor and stuff with all these towels. So, he went and drip blood everywhere. So I was just kind of like, well, if you think I'm bad, just wait till the next guy comes on. They we end up they end up having to like rip the cabinets out of this plane so they can get Dave Uben in Cuz again he's on the stretcher and stuff. So they

end up getting him in, get him on the plane. They bolt the plane up. About 5 minutes later, the door comes flying back open. Dude, the pilot jumps out. He's running all over the bottom of the plane. We're just like, "What the hell's going on?" Well, you know, everybody that works in a high threat environment has to qualify with a pistol. You know, they got to carry a gun, right? Doesn't mean they're Technically qualified. Uh, well, the maintenance guy pulled the trigger while he was on the plane, fired the gun. So, now they're looking for

this bullet. Um, but as the pilot's out there looking for it, they found it. It actually right where the the seat post is, it hit right there and just stopped. There's that gap like this. The bullet would have went left or right, it would never took off. And they said that uh when they finally got up The Tripoli that if Dave would have been another 10 15 minutes, he'd have been dead just because of so much blood loss. We couldn't they couldn't stop the bleeding cuz again stopped a lot with the arm. I think they

they end up adding another tourniquet to his arm because it wouldn't stop. But then he just had again he was just blistered all over the place. So getting one of those god things, man. Um, so we stayed back. We had the two Delta Force guys with us, a country team leader, our team leader, um, a linguist, Jack, Tanto, OD, and one State Department guy. Yeah. So there's nine of us that stayed back. So, as we're sitting there, plane had taken off, you know, then the militia, they started coming over. They wanted to, you know, what

are we going to do with the vehicles? We started diving out the vehicles. And I'm looking at the back of the bed and I'm like, I Thought there was three guys, you know, we got our two guys. Where's the other guy at? And I start looking and I'm thinking, holy [ __ ] they left they left Sean's body in the [ __ ] car. So, I see the SUV starting to pull away and I'm just [ __ ] running for this SUV. and the del the the blonde air delta guy I think he was I

think that was the marine and he's just like dude this Sean helped me get Sean's body so we had just start you know he luckily I stopped him Even otherwise we'd have not had Sean's body with us so end up getting Sean's body grabbed it um >> you got it >> yeah he ended up getting it out and getting it onto the flatbed um again I don't know why again it's just like we're doing all state department's job you know but luckily I was in mind actually like think otherwise who knows what happened. So after

the vehicles Left the the commander came up from that from that militia and said hey we can go get your we can go and recover the ambassador's body. They had the numbers and they had the firepower cuz at the time it was Ansar Seras that was actually commandeering that hospital cuz that's where we were sending them to. So the militia commander, he went uh took him about 45 minutes or so, came back, we we stopped the vehicle, you know, kind of away from us, myself, that Same Delta Force guy in Tanto walked up, you know,

looked the ambassador over, just lift up the shirt, just make sure there was no incisions or anything like that. So again, that's how I know for a fact he wasn't tortured or mutilated and, you know, he wasn't raped. So he still, you know, said, "Oh, his his belt buckle was over." Well, yeah. I mean, surprised the belt buckle wasn't on backlers. Who knows? I mean, [ __ ] happens in combat. But, you know, again, I went over that morning and saw him and he was wearing the exact same uh suit. You know, he had the

same suit pants and, you know, he had the white undershirt. So, he never had he never even got out of his work clothes. So, and we brought him over, got him onto the flatbed, and then that's when, you know, I don't know, about 10:00 that that morning, a Libyan C130 landed, pulled off to the side. Um, the team leader and the country team leader and The linguist went over there and uh I guess talked them into flying us out of there because at the time, we had no idea. We had no idea if we're going

to have to drive up or wait here, that bird's going to turn around, come back and pick us up. Nobody really knew. >> So, one thing was fun, dude. The airport was open. So, we're sitting out there. We got belt Feds. You know, it was kind of We still had, you know, our our guns were there, just not my body armor. You know, the airport planes are landing. We're just kind of sitting out there. Big militia group standing out there. People are just kind of looking out. It's just it was just so real, man. Just

like holy like going on. Like that's life, man. So we take off. Um we land in uh I think it like taking off that's when everything started hitting me kind of Like okay we're kind of safe you know and then to me it was just replaying them getting thrown off the roof over and over and that's what [ __ ] me up. Um >> yeah I talked to Tanto and Oz about it and they said that that really really haunts you. >> Yeah. So yeah, we landed um got them off and then that's when uh

you know when we put them on the on the plane, you know, we Had their arms so their arms were kind of stuck. I think Tonto talks about it. We had to snap them to get them to lay down to put them in the body bags and stuff. It's just one of those things you're not really thinking about at the time, honestly. They're brick and mortars and uh so that that you know that that was pretty shitty, but you know, at least we got them home. There's a lot of guys that didn't make make it

back home. So, um, then we get to, uh, The annex, the CIA compound, and we pull in. Dude, just the road is just lined with luggage. I'm just like, what the [ __ ] is going on? Well, they pulled everybody from the embassy and told them all to pack up. So, all their luggage was outside waiting to get evacuated. So, we go in, we get debriefed, we tell them, you know, our side, what happened, all this crap. And uh you know to me I didn't I didn't really talk about the standout order because that was

just More of an internal thing anyways you know but the more you know about things you're just like you [ __ ] But anyways so we go back and we kind of we go we get a little bit of lunch um take a little little nap and I think uh that's when Hush kind of came around got us said hey we're you guys are kind of evacuated like why don't we just [ __ ] stay here now they're going to send you guys back home. It's like makes no [ __ ] sense. you're better off

Standing here just in case something happens protecting the compound, you know, like, okay, whatever. So, we end up borrowing because, dude, my [ __ ] was all tore up, blood everywhere. Um, so we end up borrowing clothes from everybody else. And, uh, get there, we get flown into into trip. I want to tell you he's a part we get flown into Tripoli. Tripoli, General Ham's there. He greets us off the bird and we go in. USO is there. They have, you know, all kinds of stuff for us, right? But we got the whole entire embassy

which I don't know like 100 something freaking people. And uh remember they they had all their stuff but we didn't even have our backpacks. We didn't have time to grab it. So we ain't got [ __ ] except for the clothes that we're wearing. And uh they you know they start you know cuz I guess they didn't want to like let people know who we were or anything like that. Even the State Department guys that were they were kind of sitting with us not even with the State Department. And you know, they said, "Okay, come

up, you know, grab the stuff that you need, you know, and you know, just take what you need." Dude, by the time the guys are actually in Benghazi, everything was gone. All the embassy staffers [ __ ] took everything. Clothes, socks, underwear, uh, toiletry, everything was gone. When we walk up, You could tell like, "Oh, you guys are the ones that were down there, huh?" like, "Yeah." So, they end up giving us like each of like us like $500 uh credit cards, you know, but that wasn't the point. Was like, "Holy, you guys got all

your shit." And they literally I mean, pants, socks, underwear, shoes. They [ __ ] took it all. It was like, "You [ __ ] That's the State Department for you, though." So, we wake up, the the the st the state department security guys, they were pretty much ordered to go talk to the FBI. We were asked if we wanted to go talk to the FBI. And to us, why? There was no for I mean, it was it was an attack on a it is what it is. I mean, it was an attack. How is this

an FBI investigation? We're in a you know, high threat environment. Not really technically a war zone, but it's a war Zone. what's the FBI going to do? So, we never talked to the FBI there. Um, they kept us there until after they brought um the guys home. The moment the ceremony was over with, they came down said, "You guys can go home, but you got to buy your own ticket." So, we were able to finally leave the the following day. flew to DC, stayed there for about three days, debriefed twice, saw the medical because my

lungs were just cooked from uh the smoke and The fire and I think it was about a week when I after that when I fin was able to finally go home. So about a total week before I actually made it home home. So that's the story. >> How were you graded at HQ? >> Pretty good. Um they're I mean yeah it was it was a pretty good greeting at that time and they were showing us around. I think they had uh um no not that time the second time I came back. I mean I had

no negativity really from Them until I think till until Tonto started the rumors about him doing a book him and Oz that's when I kind of the treatment got a little bit different but I wasn't part of it initially. I didn't even know they were doing it, but because I went back two more times. So, I mean, it was, you know, you do it for long enough, there's a lot of little scrapples you kind of get involved with. It's just that's the one that everybody knows About. So, >> So, did these Delta guys, did they

see it was over when they showed up? >> Yeah. >> Was it all the way over? >> I mean, they were there when the mortars hit, but that was it. They didn't come out. They didn't shoot a gun. They didn't fire. They were never out in the open under fire. Nothing. >> And they got they got the second highest Award. >> Yep. >> For Army and Marines was what is the Navy Star, I think, or something like that. >> Navy Cross. >> Navy Cross. Yeah. >> And they're going to be upgraded to the Medal of

Honor. >> That's Yep. I read it. Yep. They're trying to get upgraded to the Medal of Honor. Which to me it's just a slap in the it's a disgrace to that award. So I'm I'm doing my best to fight it, but again it's you only I mean I've even told a couple of the Med of Honor recipients it's like this is B it degrades what the purpose of it is. >> What do they said? >> They can't really do anything. It's it's up to some committee and crap which again you try to get a hold

of try to email nothing. So, and it goes like like those if those guys get that award, I don't be able to look at them out of honor the same way ever again cuz I'll be thinking the same thing like you didn't [ __ ] earn that. >> And people came after you for this? >> Yeah. I mean, I I had uh the other the other Delta Force podcast came at me. Um some other journalist that uh does Fox News came at me for it. saying that we lied because they're Saying the Delta Force guys

are saying that I lied, that they got him down respectfully, they were up on the roof under fire, all this horseshit. Again, I was up there. I was I was going to a third individual, put on two tourniquets, looked one over, putting on another tourniquet, looking one over, getting him up, moving him, going to the third individual before anybody got up on the roof. So, I mean, I was up there for a while. >> Have they stopped coming after you? >> Uh, I haven't heard anything yet, but I mean, they could just block me again.

I only I only saw it like at last. It was again, it was on Fox News. I was scrolling through it like saying that we fabricated the book. The book was full. I was like, "What the hell is this?" And that's when I read the Delta Force guy saying this and this and I was like, "Oh, hell no. So, I kind of went in um went at them And you know, they're trying to say, you know, we we put this out there. Nobody reached out. Actually, they talked about on the show how Boone's team and

and they laughed it off. All that he tried to reach out again, it was just a bunch of horseshit. All they do is try to tear guys down. I mean, and you know, you got other operators trying to tear other operators apart, which is horseshit in my opinion. you know, if somebody Does says overexaggerates something, I don't really care, you know, but again, if if you're going to sit there and tell me that I lied about it, I'm going have a big problem with it. And so, again, I went through that's a lot of congressional

hearing stuff to read through and found his statement contradicts what he says. Even his own freaking citation that he was given, what he what he testifies in Congress Contradicts his own citation. And then uh this other guy again, he says, "Well, I contacted the Special Forces Operations Command within 24 hours." And he said, "No, his awards are good." No, they Nobody's going to get back to you that fast. Period. >> Who is that? >> Uh that the I forgot what the guy's name is. He's like the big usually. I guess he does more sports crap.

Buddies buddy buddies with the Delta Force guys that Do do that podcast. >> So >> this is the anti-hero podcast. >> Yeah. But it's the other guy that they they use I think too also. This is some kind of big podcaster as well. I can't remember his guy's name. But um so far when when I when I did my whole like I did a whole video on it and stuff, even Ran's mom got a hold of me cuz she heard about it. She's all hell no cuz she did her own investigation into [ __ ]

So she Knows the truth cuz I told her she and they were telling her that that they got ran off respectfully. So when I went when we got a fake award from the agency, um they came up to me and they're like, "Hey, hey, you know, you remember we were under fire up on the roof?" No. >> They tried to they tried to tell you that >> we were under fire. >> They tried to basically manipulate you Into saying that they were under fire on the Yeah. on the rooftop. >> Yeah. And then Rowan's wife

wanted to talk to me, but I couldn't talk to her at that time because I was still dealing with them getting [ __ ] tossed off the damn roof. How am I going to tell the wife that? But I guess they had already told her that they got him off respectfully. >> Who are these guys? Do you have their names? >> Uh, I don't right off the their wards are public. So, it's it's it's disgusting. So, but you know, we did get a really good uh coffee coaster award from the agency. >> What a coffee

coaster, but we got an award that's probably about as big as this. Maybe maybe bigger. They gave it to the cook and the and the maintenance guy and the staffers, too. You know, with this podcast coming out about all these guys. I mean, there's a there is it's [ __ ] it's tricky, you know, and and um one of them that just got hammered. I mean, he came in here and overmbellished lied about his entire [ __ ] service record. And I think that's disgusting. And it takes it takes away >> it does >> from

people like you and every other Person that's come in here and sat across me and documented their service what they were a part of historic events like Benghazi and that takes away from the story and I can appreciate that. You know at the same time if you don't have your [ __ ] facts straight people commit suicide over this [ __ ] No, >> they commit suicide over this [ __ ] >> That's crazy. >> And it is Destroying lives. >> Yeah, it destroys the whole community. It does. It does a lot of damage again.

>> And at the same time, some of the records needed to be set straight. >> No, I I agree. But they go out and >> But you have to be very >> tactful >> [ __ ] careful. >> Yeah. >> When you broach these type of topics >> because if you do it wrong, >> it's Yeah. >> you are the [ __ ] problem. >> Yep. Kind of what they did to me. >> Do you have anything to say to them? >> No, I think I've kind of already have. And I'm They're like, "Well, you

can come on the podcast." Like, "Why would I come on to your podcast when you couldn't have the balls to reach out to Me initially and and ask?" They didn't even reach out to you. >> No, none of neither none of them did. I'm easy to get a hold of. I'm I'm pretty much a public figure. So, for them to have an excuse so we couldn't [ __ ] >> They did this. They did this I didn't So, I don't think I saw saw what they did until like April and they did it like in

November of last year. I had no idea until I saw that guy's Report on Fox News. >> Why do you think the journalist targeted you? Where did this stem from? >> So, I went after him cuz he he again he slandered me and on on Fox News. So, I came after him and then that's when the uh the other podcast popped in and so I I was actually doing them both at the same time. I'm very I won't Yeah, I won't back down. I really don't care. >> Good for you. >> So, I went at

them. I Yeah. And I, you know, obviously their community came at me and I was fired right back. [ __ ] you. >> Who's their community? >> Well, whoever watches podcast, yeah, some other people or >> other Delta Force guys that came at me and again I I kind of threw their whole the whole model back at them >> and you know, I forgot exactly what their motto is, but then some other guys like, well, you can't be using that. You're not this. Like, I'm not saying I'm that's their motto is like, you know, their

own motto is like, you know, don't go after your own brothers. But what are they? That's their whole podcast. So, but yeah, there are some other people in their community. Not not a lot, but again, I whatever. I I'll stand I know where I stand. >> Good for you, man. >> Why do you think these guys are chasing This award anyways? Most most guys >> I don't know. Again, I didn't know they even had the second highest award until this. I had no idea what they got. like whatever. >> What is the claim in the

award? >> Um they were they rendered aid under fire and the biggest one again they rendered aid under fire and they escorted unarmed civilians to safety. Both of those That's all a lie. They didn't render aid under fire. Yeah, they rendered aid and but they never even escorted any All of us were armed. I mean, we're all agency personnel and State Department in a high threat environment. Every one of us were armed. But for me, I mean, it's the whole rendering aid under fire crap. No, he didn't. Cuz even if he rendered aid afterwards, it

definitely wasn't under fire. And all three of you guys have the same story cuz I talked to all three of you about it. >> Yeah. Well, again, if you read the book, how we did the book, none none of us ever talked to each other. That's that's the the thing about that book. We we never talked to each other. We never like discussed anything. Never had a chance to cuz I went back to work. I think maybe Oz and Tanto did, but even then, I don't know how much they would Have. So, when I said,

"Yeah, I'll finally do it." The authors, what he wanted us to do is just tape record what we saw, what we did, and send it to him. Again, Jack is over here. Tonto's again, I never again I never talked to Jack, Tanto, or OD until after I sent my recordings in for the book. So, what he did, he took all our recordings and just meshed them together. That's how he came up with the Book. This is probably one of the most factual books that I know of you could have done between five people. Why do

you think some of the guys never went public? >> Jack is still working. He's still doing >> He's still working. >> Still do. Not for the agency or anything like that, but plus he has a little uh like small mom and pop kind of a business. So, he just kind of wanted to keep that out. But yeah, he still does Um high security stuff in the States. These seals are just nuts, man. He just like to keep working. So yeah, that's why he didn't. And then uh bone, he finally came out. >> Yeah, >> I

think he was just stuck in the closet. Lost the key or something. I don't know. >> Just didn't want to revisit it. >> Yeah, but I think he went he was working too. He was still doing stuff as well. And I think that's why. >> Yeah, I met him at >> So, but yeah, I mean, initially I was I was going to be uh I wasn't going to come out public either. >> Why not? uh just didn't really want to deal with I still kind of wanted to work still too. Um but I was I

would say I kind of got talked into it by the author cuz you know you cuz I was kind of like in the every Major portion of it but also I was the one that got told to stand down. So he's kind of like you know it's going to be their word you know they're going to they're they did kind of attack us but not as hard as we thought. But he was like, "If you don't, it's going to be kind of like they're going to have to use your word to defend themselves versus you

coming out and be able to defend it directly." So, it was like the day before it was Like I had to tell them yes or no. >> So, how long did you take off before you went back to work? >> It was It took me about 6 months to heal up. >> What was it like going back to work? uh pretty normal. I mean, I went back and then uh had I actually did a video test testified in front of the Senate committee, which which was weird because they actually when I was testifying to tell

us they actually had uh Bob and Hush on the video conference. So, it was just kind of I don't know. It was just weird. >> They had those two on the conference call. >> Mhm. >> How was that? So they would answer. I could tell they they would hurry up and answer questions that I was probably going to say different to and I just sat there. I was like whatever. Especially the standown order. Bob answered that One really quick. And then uh >> what did he say? >> Um he pretty much said well I don't

remember if there was this, you know, it was probably because of like I was waiting for support. >> Yeah, that's what it was. is cuz oh there's you know that's not probably that's not really what I said or if I did I didn't mean it that way. And then when I went and testified in front of Congress, Hush answered it really quick Cuz when I went and testified I was with Hush again. I'm just kind of like Yeah. And I'm the type of person like if you don't ask me I'm not going to answer it

for you kind of a thing. Um I mean is it a big deal? Well, I mean, it's a big deal because two people got died from it cuz you had somebody who was who was in the league. Well, actually, both of them. If Hush didn't know, I don't know if he knew or not That that sending feeb wasn't coming at that time. Uh, but I mean, his decision to make us wait when he knew nobody was coming got two people killed directly. So again, at the time, I think that's why they were doing what they

were doing because again, he was retiring. He was 30-year agency guy and everybody was trying to cover their own asses for the mistakes that were made. And again, instead of holding people Accountable, they got promoted. I mean, they all uh the team leader, Hush, and Bob, the country team leader, they all got the Intel star. And people don't know that's equivalent to the Mother of Honor. They didn't give us [ __ ] And we don't do it for that. But again, it just goes back to like a slap in the face. Yeah. It definitely goes

to show you what this Is actually all about. >> To me, it's just that's all it was. It was just them >> bureaucracy. >> Yep. Them covering up each other's asses. That is why you watch, you know, Don Banino and this what is the post like the [ __ ] that I've seen I'll never forget. Like this country is [ __ ] That's kind of what I got from that just because of the corruption. I'm sorry, man. Yeah. >> How are you doing today? >> I'm good. Yeah. Got a, you know, got, you know, got

divorced and got remarried, you know, did a 180. Um, and she's a very religious Christian lady. Um, but she's been really good. She's been helping me quite a bit, you know, dealing with a lot of different things cuz, you know, when I was going through, you know, pretty much like in 2020 kind of started my own divorce path and it Just kind of really taken a more of a big [ __ ] and then, you know, 2023 found her when I was running for mayor the first time and just kind of turned turned everything around.

>> How did you meet her? >> She was did an interview with me then. >> She did an interview with you. >> Yeah. So, she's got her version of how it happened. and I got my real version of how it happened. So, So again, I did I jumped in the mirror racing 23 like last minute. I mean, I didn't really know what I was I just wanted to throw a wrench in the system and just try to get things actually done. And I don't like I don't [ __ ] I'm just going to be direct.

I don't like if I don't really know something, I'm going to tell you. I'm not going to like a lot of these when I was up there when I when I started doing the interviews or the panels, whatever, Their answers started changing to what my answers were. It was like, you [ __ ] They're all like all these politicians, they just they're all fluff. They they changed their answers for the audience. I don't change for anybody. >> I don't really care. But anyway, so I was doing my uh coming out of the closet launch and

she found out about it. Normally she wouldn't show up to the local races and stuff like that, but you Know, she got hit up by like three people and so she finally came and then my manager and uh my my manager Yeah, I guess my manager kind of hit her up to do an interview with me and then we kind of did an interview and then she started stalking me. She won't say it but that's the truth. So she started coming in doing some training. So I was doing a training also at DCF guns and

so and she was actually going over to another um uh uh magnum That was there. She was there and then she she cancelled that membership, joined DCF and then you know we kind of started talking a little bit more and she'd use excuses like hey the security team at Caris Bible College wants to meet you. I mean they did but it was her just stalking me is what it was. And uh and then we just kind of kept on from there. And then eventually we had lunch and just kind of kept going. And yeah, then

once I got married, she stopped Training. So that's how I know she was stalking me. >> Right on, man. >> But no, that's kind of how we met. I mean, it was Yeah, she's been a big blessing. So >> good for you, man. It was probably actually all the if we go into the music stuff yet, but kind of started pushing that stuff out. Yeah. >> Let's take a break real quick. >> Okay. >> The most important action you can take today is to help protect your family's future from cyber criminals and online predators. And

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the apps premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions today and reach your financial goals faster with RocketMoney. Go to rocketmoney.com/srs today. That's rocketmoney.comsrs. rocketmoney.comsrs. I know everybody out there has to be just as frustrated as I am when it comes to the BS and the rhetoric that the mainstream media continuously tries to force feed us. And I also know how frustrating it can be to try to find some type of a reliable news source. It's getting really hard to find the truth in what's going on in the country And in the world. And so one thing

we've done here at Shawn Ryan Show is we are developing our newsletter. And the first contributor to the newsletter that we have is a woman, former CIA targeter. Some of you may know her as Sarah Adams, call sign superb bad. She's made two different appearances here on the Shawn Ryan show. and some of the stuff that she has uncovered and broke on this show is just absolutely Mind-blowing. And so I've asked her if she would contribute to the newsletter and give us a weekly intelligence brief. So it's going to be all things terrorists, how terrorists

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We'll see you in the newsletter. All right, Tig, we're back from the break And we're getting ready to get into life after contracting. But, you know, one of the things I don't know if you've watched any of these, but you know, one of the things I like to do is talk about, you know, kind of all the struggles that veterans and contractors have coming home, how to fit back in with society. most of us it's not a positive story you know and and and being being through something like what you went through in Bghazi I

mean how did that affect your home life and reintegration how was it coming home I mean you had seven-month-old twins I mean it was nice because I was able to see them I mean we were talking about a little bit on the break but you know it was a first time having kids and dealing with something like that. So, you know, when I remember just being in the back of the car and my biggest thing is like You start going back home normally never you just deal with it, you know, you don't I never thought

about home this time just kind of like, holy crap, I might never see the kids again. They never knew who I was, you know, never get to see them growing up. That [ __ ] starts playing in your head. >> Were you thinking about that that night? >> Yeah. I mean, again, sitting in that car just waiting to roll and it was just like now you got to squash it out, you You got to stay focused cuz you know getting having kids for the first time it was just it was weird it was different. Um

but you know once we started actually rolling it kind of went and then when I was in the tower like during the intervals it you know your mind starts going back home sometimes and it just like you try to get it out that way you can just focus cuz you know if your mind's wondering something comes up on you man that's Bad. >> Yeah. So, I'm just trying to stay focused on it. But, you know, coming back home, >> real quick, I want to ask one other thing. >> Yep. >> What prayers did you say

over Bubs and Ron? >> Um, so I I wrote it down at kind of when we were doing the the book, I did I did write it, but I didn't say what it was Cuz at the time it to me it just felt like it was just something that was between me, them, and God. But it was uh you know u Lord watch over our our fallen warriors for they have made the ultimate sacrifice. Um guide them guide them to guide them to your side and help your angels ensure that no more fall tonight because

again we now we just lost four. Um, and then um I and I Don't know like perbatim right off the top of my head, but and it was a watch over their families for what they're going to what they're what what they're going to experience. Um, and you know, just what they're going to face, just the turmoil they're going to go through. And my thing was just trying to guide them, you know, back with as much light as possible so they can heal fast and go forward. Because again, Ran, he just found out also that

he was just Having a kid. So that's kind of some of the stuff that was going through my head was just the stuff that their family's going to have to deal with back home, you know, cuz you know, to me, I think somebody somebody dying is not and to me it's not really a sad thing cuz they're actually going home. We're we're all the way from home. >> Mhm. >> I'm ready to go home, you know. Um you know but when the time is the time and so but for me it's just the the turmoil

that we kind of deal with when we do lose people. So for them it's not sad you know because again they're they're gone they're home. Um, but for us again, we were, you know, we're just kind of dealing with how to how do we move on from things. So, what I was kind of thinking about us just being protected because we I didn't know what was going To happen and just for the family, me having kids, knowing he was just getting ready to have a kid and stuff like that. Um, again, said the same thing

over B, but I then didn't know him, but still same mindset. >> Yeah, man. Thank you for sharing that. >> Yeah. So again, just listen to people. Again, the wife kind of drives certain things out that I usually wouldn't talk about. Uh but again, it goes back to like just Stuff like that may help somebody. If it if it only helps one person, that's enough. >> Yep. >> So that's >> Do you think about them a lot? >> Yeah, I would say so. But again, it's it's you know, when I do my speaking events and,

you know, saying their names for me, it just it keeps them going forward. or he keeps them alive. You know, they always say, you Know, you're only truly forgotten when your name's spoken for the final time. So, >> were you close with Tyrone? >> No. Again, just uh he was he was that that normal like I would say for everybody calls him Master Chief, but to me he's like a gunny. He just had that gunny attitude, you know, always had a coffee. So, I can only relate to that as a Marine Corps side. So, um,

but no, he was always cool, laidback, you know, we Talked a lot about cows. I I had cattle at the time and stuff. They were actually going to buy some beef from me and but again, 30 days, you kind of get to know people, but not really. Again, my background, I'm very kind of still I'm more open now, but I was back even back then, I was more kind of quiet, standoffish, didn't trust anybody. >> Well, I think we've established why. So like me getting to know people it Takes a while. >> So what was

it? What were your struggles coming back? >> Um I never had nightmares. Um I had a I did have hard time sleeping. I end up getting a pretty good I think I had actually had the TBI from from the uh the one in Pesh that attack again. Never seek medical attention for that whatsoever. But I felt weird after that one. With this one, I think just being around the explosion so close to him and Just consistent more. Um, it I just couldn't sleep. Again, didn't have nightmares or nothing like that. So, for me, it was

just kind of just getting medical issues taken care of. Um, cuz I couldn't go to the VA for it cuz we were contractors at the time and technically they didn't want you going to VA cuz it was still classified. So, they had they picked the doctor that you went and saw. Uh, so just dealing with that, I mean, I Had all kinds of weird stuff. Like, dude, my body would just swell up kind of like I had diabetes or something. Uh, it was just weird. Like, I couldn't wear watches or nothing cuz my wedding ring

couldn't wear cuz my whole body would just it would just swell up like just weird. >> Just at random. >> Mhm. >> What was it from? Did they figure it out? >> They didn't figured it out. They kind of they gave up pretty much. >> Were you boozing? >> Nope. >> Drugs? >> No. >> Nothing? Nope. >> That is almost unheard of. >> Yeah, it was it was weird, man. Um, but then the VA, they gave me some kind of they did give me a like a sleeping pill, but it was Like a psychotic sleeping

pill. And dude, that's when I had I actually started dreaming and uh it was I I was dreaming about Benghazi, but it never happened the way like one time I was climbing through freaking rafters with Ran and and even Oz. I'm like, Oz, what the [ __ ] is going on? We didn't climb through. wasn't even here, you know, kind of thing. I mean, he was there, but he wasn't like in the over at the consulate and stuff. And then, uh, Again, just weird scenarios that were going on, but it was all in Benghazi. And

then the last one was, I don't know how my kids showed up, but my kids showed up, I end up chopping their heads off. >> What? >> And that was the last time I took it. I woke up and said, "Fuck this. I never took any sleeping aid ever again." >> [ __ ] So, and I think a lot of veterans, they they sit there and they say they Have this kind of stuff, but they keep taking it because you do sleep. I mean, I was sleeping. >> Yeah. >> But I was like, "Fuck this.

It ain't worth it." Um, so I've never took anything for sleep since. And then, uh, it was just that I mean, just weird medical problems. Um and actually I got a thing called relapsing polychondritis which they don't even know where it comes from. Only like 10 American 10 people in our country even have it. So it's a it's an autoimmune that attacks your cartilage and uh usually it's already attacked my ears. The next is usually the nose. Then after that it goes for your uh your esophagus. That's when you die. So, but I still I

mean they say within about 10 years if you're still alive you'll be good. I got another five years because I that was diagnosed in 2020. Jeez. So for me coming back it wasn't Really difficult. I didn't really have a a hard time. Um again for me honestly throughout the whole thing it was just hearing them getting tossed off that roof. honestly have everything. That's that's the hardest thing for me. So, >> no depression, suicide attempts. >> Mm- >> nothing. >> No, I mean, I'm pretty sure I had some depression. I mean, kind of quit doing

What I wanted to do. Uh, we got, you know, pretty much screwed over on the book and movie deal. >> How'd you get screwed over on the book? Uh, well, we don't we get no residuals from book sales or movie or anything. >> Is that from them or is that the agency intervening? >> I dude, we don't know. According to them, the book didn't sell enough. The movie didn't make enough. So, we don't get [ __ ] >> Number one New York Times bestseller. It's right on the [ __ ] cover. >> Yep. According to

them, nope. >> It's one of the only movies I've ever watched that has to do with what we used to do. Well, dude, if you look at the reviews, it's got like 15,000 reviews. It's still almost five stars. But no, the actors, they're making they're making a [ __ ] ton of money from it. We don't make Again, it's just how We got screwed over, I guess. You know, the same uh people that helped us do the do the book um kind of did the movie as well. And we kind of thought we had everything

covered in there. We But again, this just, you know, liberal Hollywood [ __ ] us over. I mean, we didn't do it for the money. It's good. The story is out there. It's permanent. You can't change it. But yeah, a lot of people think, "Oh, you get, you know, they, well, they call it blood money, But even if it whatever." We don't get anything from it. Unless we sell it, unless you buy it from us directly, we don't get anything. >> That's a shame. What? You guys were involved with the making of the movie though,

correct? >> Yep. How involved? >> Um once so once you do the movie or they're going to do it, you have to sign your Life rights so you can they're only going to do so much and cuz they have 100% control. So I like to laugh cuz anyways cuz I stand my ground on [ __ ] I don't care once. Anyways, so you know we went in we talked with Michael Bay. They they gave us like the movie script the day before. I don't know how to read a movie script. I don't, you know, I'm

reading this stuff and I'm like, I don't even know what the hell they're even talking About, you know, because they're talking to I because again, they're leading up to it and I'm like, "Yeah, whatever. I'm not going to be able to read this the whole night before. We're just going to see him tomorrow. We're going to walk through it, talk through it." So, we did. We walked through things. They showed me, you know, what the set was going to look like. I'm like, "Yeah, this set's not right." So, that the movie set for the Annex,

that's Dude, It's pretty accurate. I mean, that's probably 99% accurate. I was like, "Well, there's trees here. There's like, we're not doing that, dude." So, but for the most part, the the our annex was pretty good. The the consulate is pretty far off, but again, they you know, you got to deal with the layout of the land and stuff like that. So, when we're there, we got to go on set for 10 days. And uh um I was sitting there, they were doing the uh this the attack scene. And so it's kind of cool to

watch, but again, I don't really know like cuz they're doing like the same thing like for an hour straight. I don't know how people do it. Um, but anyways, and Michael Bay as they're filming whatever, they're doing the whole action. He comes walking up and he says, "Hey, so you got shot." And again, like, "Yeah, I got shot." Where'd you get shot? I got shot in the side. He Goes, "Okay, you're going to get shot in the chest." Okay, whatever. You know, so it's just things like that that you just really can't control. But so

they did it all and then I think I went home and then Jack calls me and uh he's saying, "Hey, uh I just found out that they're not going to put you up on the roof." I'm like, "What do you mean?" So there it's just going to be me up on the roof. And I'm like, "No, that ain't going to happen." He's Like, "And they're and they're not showing that the Delta Force guys threw them off the roof." And I said, "Well, if they're not going to put me on the roof and show the truth,

I don't want nothing to do with it. You can tell them all the [ __ ] off." So, next thing you know, uh I think I forgot who like the producer guy calls. He says, "Hey, you know, we just this is why I'm like, I really don't care why. If I'm not on the roof and you're not Showing what they did, you can [ __ ] off." And I hung up on him. Mubay calls, said the same thing to him. And then finally the pres the par president paramount whatever dude's name was at the time

called and I hung up on him. Yeah, I don't really care. I'm will not be on if you don't put me on the roof. Don't show what they actually did. You can all [ __ ] off. Well, they fixed it. That's what I mean. It goes back to like I really don't Care. It's like we there's a certain ground where people just need to stand and they didn't do it then I just wouldn't promote the movie. I wouldn't want nothing to do with it. >> Good for you, man. So even more now that we didn't

we don't really get anything from it. But it was just about, you know, like you need to show what really happens. And a lot of things in Hollywood like Michael Bay is like, "Well, we're doing it this way because We need to have more action." I'm sorry. I didn't know you were I I didn't know we need to have enough action for everybody. Like holy [ __ ] So yeah, it's just But I mean, they did a good job with it. It honored the four guys and that was their biggest thing. They left politics out

of it. That was our another goal with the book and the movie. We didn't want politics in it cuz there politics were not involved when we're in the middle of the fight. Politics came from politicians. We didn't we didn't invite the polit politics into this. It was everyone else that did it. So again, we get, you know, we were doing the book tour and all this, even the movie, we'd get we get hit up, you know, bashed by the left a lot, saying, "Oh, you're doing this because it's political. You did that." I'm like, "What

the [ __ ] are you guys talking about?" He was like like, "We're not going to watch. It's all it's like They don't even give the book or the movie a time because they think it's political. There's nothing political in the book or in the movie, but that's that's their mindset. And you know, I remember we got this old lady one time we were in Boulder and she came at us saying, "I can't believe you guys left the ambassador to die. You just abandoned him." And I'm just like, "It wasn't our job. We risk our

lives to go and save them." So, it's like a lot of People don't even know what happened, but yet you get yelled at. You know, you get like degraded for something you had no control over. >> What the [ __ ] man? >> Yeah, the book tour was interesting. >> Sounds like it. >> So, but no, I mean, again, coming back home, to me, the hardest thing was just getting the medical treatment. Um and and then trying to do speaking events Cuz again I was the quiet guy. You met Boon, right? >> Mhm. Met him

several times. >> I was quieter than he was. >> Are you serious? >> Mhm. >> That dude does not talk. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> So yeah. So again, I would It took me a while. like I mean like the first like 6 months I think Tanto answered every Question that was asked to me. So I think you know I've come out of my shell quite a bit and >> Well, you've got to if you're going to run for mayor, >> right? >> You better start talking. >> I I'll probably still not be a typical

politician. >> God, I hope not. We got way too many of those. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, then I, you Know, get involved in a lot of these other veteran organizations and foundations and I think that helped quite a bit, you know, cuz then you're more you're not focusing on yourself. You're kind of helping other guys and it kind of helps you at the same time. But then you do got some guys. I mean, I still I did a couple um what was um like with saw special or save a warrior, you know, went

to their uh retreatment. So, I did my own things As well as helping other guys cuz again, you want to sit there as a vet and say, "Oh, you need to go do this." But if you don't do it yourself, you're kind of doing everyone else a disservice. You're being dishonest. >> Yeah. >> So, you still I mean, if you're going to be part of it, you still got to help fix yourself. Otherwise, you know, you see guys that take their own lives and stuff like that. And cuz, you know, was that One uh was

I think his name was Joo. He was a pretty good a vet that was like in the whole 22 kind of thing helping guys out constantly then next thing you know he's gone. It's just like again if you're gonna you seeing other people help I think it's been for me it helps me knowing that I kind of helped them in a way. >> Who's this? I mean I know Joo but >> it's a it was a different one though not the one again he was from Texas. Um Yeah for some reason that's the name that's

coming in my ad though. Well, the other one, >> there's been a lot of It's It's sad, you know, but some of it I don't always think it's combat related. I think it's home life related. They just don't know how to deal with that portion of it. >> Yeah. >> Um at least that's what I've kind of seen. And I think sometimes, not to go off on the spouses, but again, I Think sometimes the spouses aren't truthful what happens in their inside their family life, which again keeps this this thing going forth without actually be

able to try truly fix it. That's my opinion. Just because I've been around it so much and I see so much stuff, it Yeah, guys suffer. They they see things, but I think it's a lot of it's just that stress of the home life, and that's what gets to them. >> Yeah. Yeah. Did you deal with any type Of survivors guilt or anything like that? >> No. Um cuz my mindset um kind of goes down like we all knew what we're getting into. We all knew what we wanted to do and we were we we

volunteered to go there. Um we'd always want everybody to come home when we can. Uh, but also I think it goes back to like we didn't have that solid brotherhood either. You like I'm not again like I don't want active duty guys to say off, you know, Kind of [ __ ] you. Well, you know, we weren't there for a year, four years, 5 years, 6 years together, you know, 30 days, >> you know, >> you didn't have time to build that kind of camaraderie. >> So, it's a little bit different. Um, but I mean

you it still hits you regardless. >> Yeah. >> I mean, you're still you're still a brotherhood. You want to fight for each Other. You're Americans. you're fighting for the same thing. Um, but you know, I just don't want to take that away from other guys that have that. That's not what I'm saying. Just we didn't have that ability to build that type. But you also got to remember you all signed up for that job that that comes death comes with it. It's it's just it sucks. But having a survival guild, I mean, if if you

passed, would you want him doing the same thing you're doing? For me, for it's more about doing better or keep going. I have a thing that always says always move forward because if if you degress versus progress, it does them a disservice. It dishonors their sacrifice in my mind. So, I mean, it's just trying to keep on doing I mean, you're always going to have failures. I mean, you're always going to It's not every day everything's perfect, you know, but it's just trying To do your best, you know, to honor them by doing better. Keep

going forward. Make things better for our country. Make their sacrifice mean something. >> What advice do you have for guys kind of getting out, coming home for today? >> Have a plan. have, you know, a lot of guys you talk to, it's like they get out, they're like, I don't even know what the hell I'm going to do. If you don't know, don't get out. That's the worst thing you can do. Have Something have something in mind to go and do, you know, because that's what I hear the most out of a lot of guys,

even retired guys, but they don't have to worry about income, but they're just kind of like, I don't even know what to do. It's like, >> yeah, >> you knew you were getting out at least a year before you got out. And I think you have to start planning for something. >> Yeah. >> Don't go to college. Go to a trade school, >> especially if you don't have an actual skill. That's I mean, I started in HVAC. It was all, you know, um, hands-on labor stuff, but I'm not a college kid, so I went to

a trade school. But you learn the job you want to know versus, you know, a lot of college, you got to take 20, 30 other courses and it cost you an extra 200 grand. It doesn't have nothing To do with what you want to learn. But for guys, get I just have a plan, man. Don't just get out. That's the dumbest thing you can do. If you don't have a plan, you better stay in. At least that's my opinion. >> I think that's good advice. So, you're running for mayor in Colorado Springs. What prompted that?

>> I love chaos. No. So, you know, it it stemmed initially from 2020, but or Yeah. from 2020. So, it's why I kind of jumped in in 2023. I was very vocal in 2020. I hated the shutdowns. I hated that that stupid socialism lockdown just infringement crap. It pissed me off. So, I did a lot of things in Colorado trying to tell business just open up. They can't shut you. And they can't. They can't shut you all down. They can't. Otherwise, they destroy the whole entire city. Anyways, so I did things up in Denver. Pissed

off The the pulis up there. I think he one time he called me a stupid selfish bastard because I wanted I I was up there had I think I had like 4,000 something people show up bunch of dudes on motor I mean it was a bike ride from all four corners of Colorado it was pretty cool and uh cuz for to me for the government to tell us that we can't do something is [ __ ] We tell the government what it can't do. It doesn't tell us what we Can't do. So, I started really

pushing back on that and uh you know, cops arresting parents in parks with their kids. Yeah. No. Oh, hell no. To me, that's that you as a cop, you should retire. You need to throw away that badge cuz you're a disgrace. >> I'm with you on that one, man. I can't I can't listen to another person that's just saying I'm just doing my job. >> Oh, no. Yeah. Then [ __ ] quit. >> Yep. I'm on one. >> Get a new job. >> Your job. Well, that's just if you're just following orders when you can

just go enjoy prison the rest of your life in my opinion cuz you're violating somebody else's rights. That's how I am. I'll back the blue but again that doesn't you're Yeah. Your lack of knowledge does not supersede my freedoms. >> Yeah. >> So, so then you know 23 came around. And I was start starting a new job cuz I got tired of like traveling so much and I was s I was taking lunch and I saw on the news, you know, you have like so long to sign up and then so much longer to get

the signatures you need to, you know, to run for mayor. I think I had like two days to get my packet in and then I had to like two weeks to get my signatures. It was right before shot show. I was like, "Shit, I'll just do It." So, I got up, went down to the again, I had no no idea what I was I was just going to do it. Went down there, got the packet, came back, had a friend come over, filled out the paperwork, finished it that night, turned it back, turned it in

the next morning. Got my my my stuff to go get my uh signatures, you know, the 200. You had to get 200 signatures. And that's then I had to come to Shot Show. So, they're doing that. I I got Like 200 signatures the first weekend when I was gone. came back, got another 200, turned it in that Monday, and then I got on the ballot, and then they tried to remove me from the ballot. >> Why' they try to remove you from the ballot? >> Cuz supposedly two people came in to the administrative office and

said, "I didn't live in Colorado Springs." So, I asked him, "So, who are my accusers? Apparently, you can't face your accusers In those incidents. People can just accuse you whatever." So, I had to prove that I lived in Colorado Springs for over a year. It wasn't hard. seems pretty easy. >> Yeah, but I'm just like this is stupid. And then they try to fight me on putting John Tig Tigan on the ballot. I'm like, well, that's a trademark name. I can put actually I can put anything I want on the ballot. So, I got to

fight. It was everything I did in the first round was A fight. So, anyway, so I got on, you know, I think it panicked a little bit of the other it's a bipartisan supposedly or not. Yeah, it's um unaffiliated run, but I think I still think the Democrats kind of freaked out and they saw me jump on and I think it went up to like a million dollar race. I raised like I raised like 20 grand, you know, but again, I knew I didn't have a chance. That wasn't the point. The point was to do

what I did. Um and this time I'm doing it again for the same reason. Again, my my goal is the mayor can only do so much. I think people need to realize that which you know when I was running the questions they're asking you even from the media the mayor doesn't have no control over you know so that's the hard part for me was trying to figure out what what can the mayor actually cuz I'm not a politician never wanted to do it and now I'm just like screw it I'm going to do it now

you pissed me off but you know they're asking things like a mayor can't control that's more like a city council or that's the county commissioners it's just like what's wrong with you people so but I want to give more control back to the people back to the community and even back to the police cuz if you look and see what happens around this country, especially with police chiefs and certain mayors, They they'll tie the hands of cops and they can't do anything with criminals. They can't do anything. Again, like this mayor, he's tying our police

chief's hands regardless if he wants to admit it or not, cuz I know people too. >> They won't he won't allow uh the local law enforcement to work with federal agents to wrap up these criminals, these illegals. And to me it's like no they're one police the number one job is to protect The community. Anyone who's violating our community need to be wrapped up and again if they're here heal legally they violated it. So my my goal in a way I don't know again still looking into things but trying to make it to where even

though the mayor may still pick the police chief he can't dictate what he does. Like as long as he's within the constitution the mayor has no control. You shouldn't have to control that Police chief. Just like a sheriff. You can't control the sheriff. >> Yeah. >> But people say, "Well, you need to be able to make sure your town's taken care of." It's like, as long as you put in there like he has to abide by the US Constitution, the state constitution. That's all he needs to do. That's what you should be doing anyways. The

mayor shouldn't be stopping, shouldn't be hindering, shouldn't be influencing, Shouldn't be doing a damn thing with law enforcement. So again, it's just like it's just like the the president kind of having control over the FBI and having them do a raid on a on a former president because he wants to. That's [ __ ] You shouldn't have that type of control cuz that's what happens. You have and you know, you had the uh during 2020, you had the the Seattle police pulled completely out and you had a nation of chaz show up. You Know, it's

like no, that they're there to protect the community. The mayor should not be telling that police chief to pull. the police she should be doing their damn job protecting the community and then you know just the infrastructure and all that stuff and yeah it's I mean I got I got a little ways to go but I got two years to prep and I I have like eight issues I'm looking into that people complain about but so well I'm sure you're going to do well so I'm excited to see how it goes. >> You know people

say well it should be easy. It's a military town, but yeah, we have five military bases, but again, it's the military don't vote. They're well, they they vote, but not for Colorado Springs. They vote for the state they come from. That's the problem. >> Yeah, it's a military. >> Make an announcement, get them to Register, >> right? I know when I ran the first time, I think it was about a hundred people came up said, "I'm I'm voting for the first time ever because you're running >> good." So, that felt pretty good. >> I'll bet

it does. So >> what's your wife think about you getting into politics? >> So she was actually she was going to run For a seat for a state. >> No kidding. >> And she would have won. I mean she would have smoked them. Anybody that was going to run against her. I mean she's she's been involved in the political community across the whole state for about 5 years now. She she helps organize like churches and stuff to kind of get more involved in politics cuz they've been too scared. They don't realize the rules and stuff,

but >> it's a big voting block. >> Oh, yeah. It's huge. Actually, I'm doing Well, I'll get in that in a second. But, so she's been involved with that and she got asked to do that. And I was like I was like, "Well, cool. Cuz I'm going to run for mayor. I'll win mayor. You'll be up there. We good powerhouse." But then she's kind of like, "Yeah, I don't I'd rather just stay home and I'll just help you." Because I get it. I mean, that that would cause a little bit of a Separation between us,

her doing that, me doing this. So she's like, and plus, you know, she, you know, she does a lot a lot of prayer, praying and stuff, and she's like, it never came to me to actually do it. It was more my decision. And it's not something that God's leading me to. So I'm stepping back. I'm not going to do it. So now she's just pretty much like just going to help me do it. And she's actually going to business school right now, too. So, >> right on, man. >> Yeah. She's a she's a blessing. >>

I got a good feeling about this. >> Yeah. I think it's going to be strong. I think you're going to get it. >> Yeah. Now I have a team. I mean, we're getting a solid team because then it's not just about the one person. The one to me, the mayor is just a leader. Everybody else does the work. It's just making sure like that everybody does what the what our what the constituents Want where nowadays it kind of seems like politicians just they get in there and then just kind of do what they want. >>

Yeah, it sure as hell does seem like that, doesn't it? >> On both sides. >> Yep. >> [ __ ] disaster. because they want to please everybody. You're not there to please please everybody. >> He's favors. >> Yeah. So, just get there, do what needs To be done, what should be done, and what the voters want is what they get. >> Yeah. >> So, >> well, T, we're wrapping up the interview, but you know, out there, we were talking about your son or your uh your kids, twins, >> and um just want to see if

you have anything you want to say to them. Never give up. Always push forward. Life's hard. Sometimes you get knocked down. Just always got to get back up. >> Well, Doug, I wish you the best of luck, man. And I just want to say thank you for coming. >> Well, thank you, man. Appreciate it. >> It was an honor. Truly. >> Oh, yeah. Cheers. [Music] No matter where you're watching Shawn Ryan show from, if you get anything out Of this, please like, comment, subscribe, and most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're

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