and then the third quality of the christian mind is that it's a mind that's universal in its scope because there's no divided reality we engage the bible as a truth claim that overarches the whole of reality now it applies directly only to some aspects of our experience you don't have to read the whole bible to look for what it says about nanotechnology it says nothing about nanotechnology i'm sorry to disappoint you but that's the way it is but where it doesn't apply directly it always has an indirect application and that means there's no area of
thought that's autonomous from the bible so that's the kind of strong mind that full lordship leads to yes right well that's all i'm going to say what i'd like to do now is to open it up with some questions is that good yeah we don't even questions um my original lecture was twice as long as this one but i looked at your droopy eyes i thought have mercy this question so he wanted from those three texts to make a question to bring an understanding about the issue of redemption christian redemption relates strongly with creation and
he created everything how firstly how is the the relation of uh of the the christians with the non uh redeemed and and the other thing is how this universal scope of redemption relates with the the redemption of creation yeah so does doesn't it come to universalism in terms of redemption same party foreign yeah let me take the first question if i understood it correctly which is within if you remove the divide what is the nature of our relationship to a non-christian is really how i understand it we're dealing with two different in the image of
god may manage to do this now my question is which one of those is primary question and for me it's obvious it's a creature we are creatures all of us who are either saved or unsafe but for me the so for the first basis on which we meet any other person is creature to creature rather than saved unsaved or saved safe it's always creature to creature we start on that basis to in any way say that saved unsaved is not important i'm just saying the first basis in which we me we need people is in
their creatures and i think we do a great disservice to the world as christians when we primarily treat people on the are you saved or not saved good evangelism starts it is one of the problems for me in the church today when someone walks through the door of a church the first thing we think is are you a christian or not a christian if they're a stranger is not are you a christian tell me your story oh you look tired come and have a sleep sometimes someone is at labrie for weeks before i know whether
they're a christian or not he agrees with you but what he meant was not related primarily with the relation with the same with the lawsuit the perspective say to the headings foreign foreign is if god is redeeming everything that he created in which way this view of redemption affects our way of understanding how the even the non-christian participate in this process of redemption how the creature participates for this process that god is redeeming everything i think what what meant his scopes for attention are okay if i'm a christian i got a whole school like the
whole of my life but if relations like universal non-creatures are somehow okay so there's some school for non-christians too so what's the advantage and these are maybe what's the difference for these scopes at which point non-christians can get this religion can share this universe of redemption well yeah i think i respect them do you foreign after the judgment the final judgment which aspect of that redemption of christ can we see in those people who are not christians not saved is there any aspect of that if it's universal yeah here here's how i start to answer
your question if because i want to bring it back to my lecture your it's a good question but it's a little bit outside of what i'm saying but if we acknowledge the full lordship of christ over all of reality that means that we're going to have an impact on the cultures in which we live so this actually is a model for the transformation of society and as as a society is transformed its people are touched by that redemptive so to this day though europe is thoroughly secular its roots in judeo-christianity is a huge benefit for
the millions of europeans who have no interest in christ at all because although jesus is the lord he leaves freedom for people to acknowledge his lordship okay i'm saying the national government and we can either acknowledge it freely now or be forced to acknowledge it after the final judgment is deformed foreign foreign foreign because afterwards we might have time for youtube oh foreign was foreign the door to receive the stranger uh it's it's beautiful then he wants to know which type of challenge that labrie still have in trying to make this a reality in terms
of receiving these people that's an interesting question i mean the challenges for for debris are often just capacity the capacity we have the great joy and privilege is we don't have to go out and get people they come to our door and they knock they want to come they want to be with us it is so it's one of the great privileges of the work and many many non-christians this past summer i think we've had i don't know i wouldn't be surprised we've had 100 through the whole summer period non-christians with us just kept coming
and coming with your questions is absolutely wonderful and they came asking us questions we didn't have to go for them they came asking us but the problem is how do you have the energy and capacity to welcome so many and to listen to their questions carefully so you really understand what they're they're asking and spending time you could never spend enough time there's always more you could do in terms of sitting down and listening carefully is that a younger generation are more hungry than ever for the kind of normalized life of a home where you
just come in have a meal and have a discussion they're so hungry for this at the moment our degree we cannot cope with all the people who want to come and that's why it's just such a joy that there's another labrie here to welcome more people in but that's why i say the challenge is capacity it's dealing with the scale of questions the other challenge is in capacity is there are so many spiritual refugees in spiritual refugees well the capacity to welcome so many spiritual refugees who have been very badly damaged by their churches and
often you're having to deal with a great deal of anger towards the church towards god so the challenge of holding the anger listening to it allowing it in time to dissipate so the real questions can come out maybe that's another challenge is to hear the real questions usually i find that there are questions behind questions which are the most important to listen to and if we only respond to the the front question we're not getting to the real question that's behind that's a challenge is to listen that's the holy spirit that's part of the prophetic
work of listening very carefully to you find the right question the real question foreign foreign just sharing about a guy from washington that came to agree and he would make the most interesting questions about christianity and the singing that he was one equation yeah and in the last days she knew that the guy was a christian and his pastor his father was a pastor that brought some disappointing information yeah i think today a challenge is learning how to express the faith in as many are so damaged by the rhetoric of the abstractions of the church
that they can't hear anything which has religious terminologies you have to express the faith in very different languages is is is it uh briefly what even adriano tried to ask things certainly to help this influential does having sound in our currency there which is the influence of this redemption of christ and the scope of his redemption and if the church is the agency of this redemption yeah so what's the question yeah it's is stated as a question for me which is the uh influence of this redemption of christ which who is the agency of this
redemption is it the church absolutely yeah i think i i think it is and i think maybe i don't know if this is behind this but there is a there is two columns here so what redemption is going to accomplish is not just a replica of what we have in genesis 1 2 and 3. there are some significant continuities but also significant discontinuities signification without significance and with respect to the human race there is a new race in christ being established it is creation and that third race the redemption to that race comes through the
church it's the body of christ and through that body the renewal of the whole of creation again but it is a renewed creation there is also a discontinuity about the whole of creation it's not just put back to its original that's my point of view and that's one of my problems with universalism is that i think it always has to go back to the original model again yes rather than saying redemption is something which brings creation into a new phase a new era will the church get through it to bring this redemption to all things
if the redemption is in the hands of the church the church is the agency if if the agency of this redemption is in the hands of the church will the church carry it through it's it's what you mean by is the agency in the hands of the church the agency is in the hands of christ it's there's nothing about human agency in terms of the carrying through his christ work which will renew the whole again but and you can't separate christ from his church from his body so christ is the head of the body yes
will come through i'd like to talk to you guys afterwards because there's something i'm not understanding and i think it's important for me to understand just there's something under here i can't quite understand it is i is um this process of redemption of god retention is in the church if the church can carry this process but it can't consider the poison the position we need to stop soon is it's quite a practical question here in brazil because the brazilian natalie in the church has developed this strong mentality of division so the first question from him
is how to bring this new paradigm without bringing a too deep crisis for the church the second is how to do both because both things can need to happen the people who have learned the the old way the brazilian way they need to be renewed in their minds and the new people who are coming need to be discipled in a new way absolutely so how to fit those two things without bringing an eternal christ in the church but in some ways i'm not so familiar with the brazilian church so i i'd rather hear guilty on
me and my colleague miami my colleague rudolfo talk talk and talk about this but yeah yeah i have ideas but i'd like to i'd like you to address it because you're familiar with the church because i think your point that it can be a crisis is absolutely right foreign reflux when i read francis schaefer it was a crisis but a beautiful crisis this was my second conversion it's where and when i realized his full lordship it was it was a crisis but it was beautiful suddenly this was a jesus who i really really wanted to
worship and serve in every area so yes a crisis but i would say a very positive crisis that immeasurably enriched my life in every single part and made me by his grace a more healthy person so the crisis was a very positive one that's all i'd say for my own experience but i know people for whom a lecture like this would leave them on the floor not almost not knowing what to do next just a huge question but what would you do is foreign a opinion foreign well is people is is before is is but
how can we do is foreign is foreign foreign this is my experience from england which i suspect will be true for brazil when i go to a church and i teach this type of material but those who are most resistant to it are the church leaders especially and it's because they have a certain uh reason because if they make the priority this side commitment to the church it's their empire which is preserved so it's most threatening for church leadership and i say this respectfully because we have to be careful not to always hammer the church
leaders but i have almost reached the point where i don't even bother with church leaders anymore because almost thank you
