Steve Bannon: The vision for a third Trump Presidency | FT Live

Uh, will Trump run for a third term? Uh, yes. So, and he'll win the third term and he'll be court think about that. I mean, we'll have to see at the time. Okay. [Music] Hello everyone again. It's been a long day. Well done for making it to the end. uh you've been a fantastic audience and uh once again on behalf of everybody at The FT weekend at FT Live who produced the event and all of our sponsors, thank you. Thank you for being a great engaged audience all day. I'm doing it now because at the

end you'll all just leave and you won't listen to me say thank you. So thank you. Thanks very much. Uh so it's our final session as you probably realized. Uh, and all I'm going to do is introduce two people who need no introduction. Edward Loose, our FT US national editor And columnist, and Steve [Applause] [Music] Bannon. Thank you, Janine. Thank you, everybody, for turning up. And thank you, Steve, for well, for walking on stage with an FT. It's my comfort blanket. And I said to somebody earlier, uh, you're the only person I remember at least

being photographed going into jail with an FT. That was prison. Prison? Yes. No, no, I appreciate the distinction. Um, and did prison radicalize you or were you already radicalized? I was radicalized, but it opened my eyes to a lot to a lot. Prisons, these prisons are very dangerous, extremely dangerous for the nonviolent uh, young drug offenders put in there for 10, 15, 20, 25 years. Danbury is a very small place. when you have to live the next 20 years your life in a prison that's 100 years old that's Supposed to have 800 inmates that has

1,200 because of the overcrowding because so many foreign nationals it's very dangerous and the prisons have to be reformed I'm working with uh Jared and Peter Navaro to get the the BOP uh candidates in and start to do some serious prison reform and I mean Jared I mean and I know this is actually this is a a rare cross party issue Um Jared hasn't had jail experience, but you and Well his father went to prison. That's why Jared Jared's in back of the first step back. First step back is revolutionary. It hasn't been implemented. The

thing I found shocking hasn't been implemented. I don't want to say it's because it was Trump's bill. I think a lot of it was incompetence or just lethargy. But the first step act is, you know, it can cut people could cut inmates, non-violent criminals time in half and it hasn't been implemented. So Jared is the really the author of that. He did a brilliant job. I wasn't that into it when he first did it. I got into it late to get it helped get it passed because of the politics, but it's brilliant. And we're trying

to do so much more. The prisons are a disgrace in this country. Absolute disgrace. Um I think a lot of people would agree with you. Um the the um I want to get into the meat of what MAGA is and what the real end game is beyond the trolling. If If there is a beyond patrolling I mean which is sort of my suspicion and you can allay it if you like but let me start with current affairs which is that Cardinal Post who is now of course Leo I 14th you said a couple of weeks

ago or no 10 days ago whenever it was that he was the dark horse candidate uh and then he became pope. So you you've got a pretty good predictive record. I I mean I have to say I I find you know there is a there is a sort of Trump reaction Going on around the world and I see it as Canada, Australia, the Vatican um because and you've described him as a you know basic I think a cultural Marxist. Well, from from Burggolia, remember Burggalia was anti-Trump from the beginning in the 16 campaign. Uh he

criticized when he did the mass down on the on the border, he criticized our building the wall. President at that time, candidate Trump and I recommended He come back strong in that and Burggalia the entire time has been violently anti-Trump. But that's not the it's not just being anti-MAG or anti-Trump. That's the politics of it, right? and and pose is the continuation, but it is for the traditional Catholics in the crowd, the Latin mass Catholics, the prevatican 2 Catholics, we're close to a schism in the church between Burggolia in this kind of radical way he's

taken it and pose what my research Founds of contacts in the curio, we have lots of contacts in the Vatican. You know, I've spent a lot of time in Italy. We had a we had a monastery that we actually owned before the government took it away from us to be kind of a counter to what was going to the Vatican. So we have a broad network of the traditionalists and uh post and I'm saying this the conclave for the pope was more rigged than the 2020 election. Now why why do I say let me back

it up Some facts. On Piers Morgan's show 10 days before the conclave started I called I said POS is the dark horse. He wasn't in any betting pool if you look at Italian TV nowhere. The reason is is not only is the uh he's only been a cardinal less than two years. He was the perfect acolyte for Begolia to continue his thing. The front page of the New York Times says that today if you read the whole huge front page story more importantly because of our efforts and Other because the traditional church in America is

on fire with vocations and young people and vibrancy and urgency that we help cut off the money going to the Vatican. And so the Vatican, the Wall Street Journal had a huge article this week that showed the Vatican has tons of assets, but they're illquid. They need the American cash. They would never put a traditional American in that role because they think the American church has too much power. Poss is going To be the contact for the big American donors. So I know I mean there was a joke at the time a couple of days

ago when he got um Mayor Pope uh that mayor Daly had rigged another election Chicago Cardinal but I mean his brother did his brother did say you're not underestimating the the reaction against Trump here and the influence of Pope Francis on having appointed twothirds threequarters of the cardinals whatever that's true but he was it is and he Worked he worked in the dcastastery for the archbishops however he was virtually totally unknown the American American Cardinals came out today and said, you know, he's the least American of the Cardinals. We don't really know him. This was

a true dark horse. And it only took three ballots, folks. It took one day. They had one vote late in the afternoon. Next day came back. It is impossible. And he t the Daily Mail reports. He talked to his brother the Two days before the conclave and they were talking about picking Leo. The they wanted he wanted to pick Leo, but he thought it might be the 13th and then they figured out it was the 14th. How would you talk to your brother about that? This was totally rigged by the curia to be both anti-Trump

and and and and and to drive we're going to have a schism in the church because the traditional Catholics are not going to Go along with the continuation of Burglia. So get let's park the pope for a moment. I I want to get No, no. I asked I asked you I asked you about the pope just to be clear. Um I told you not to go there. Let's start with it. Let's start with taxes. I'm not yet regretting having gone there. Uh but let's park him. Um I want I want to get into I think

it's fair to say that you are the best explainer of MAGA particularly to audiences like this and you know you Read the FT for a reason. Um and that you present a theory of the case and I was trying to think you were strate strategist during the 2016 election and then in the White House in Trump's first term. Um and you you know have been the chief explainer of MAGA to many many audiences. uh who is the equivalent of you? And the the answer I came up with from past eras of figures who aren't necessarily

elected but have a sort of command over shaping the zeitgeist was Grover Norquist. And Grover Norquist had a huge influence, very different, but a huge influence over Republicans in Washington by getting them to sign the anti-ax pledge, which you know was was binding and sort of militantly enforced. and he really shaped the Republican party into being purely a party of tax cuts. You're quite different, but I want you to explain first before I sort of follow up in why you're different. I mean, you don't believe in in tax cuts, Right? I believe in massive tax

cuts for the middle class and the working class and permanent. I believe if we can't cut federal spending that the wealthy in this country, the at least the millionaires, ought to be at 40% as a start. The country is in a financial crisis. The people have made We've had the greatest concentration of wealth under President Obama because of the bailouts in 2008. How how they were done and now Because of COVID, we have a tremendous concentration of wealth in this country. Such we have a capitalist system with very few capitalists. I think 75% of the

people don't own any real assets or financial assets. So we have to have fundamental change in this country. Part of that has to come from the tax structure. I think you see from Grover Norquist, they're playing from a playbook. We've changed the electorate in the Republican party. We are a Working-class and middle class party. And the reason is the Democrats, the credential class completely abandon the Democratic party. I come from a Democratic family. We were Irish, you know, people, firemen, phone workers, cops, that type of thing. Union people, and the Democratic party abandoned us. And

that's why, you know, 10 and some days into this, there's no real theory of the case on the Democratic side. Bob Reich, the labor secretary, wrote this Brilliant piece in the Guardian the other day calling for a left-wing populism, but there's no left-wing populism until you start talking about economic issues. You can watch MSNBC or these things all night long and you never see get Rohan is never on. Fedterman, they're trying to run out of the party. Sherid Brown's defeated. They never talk about the core issues of economics that are important to the American people.

And we're going to get Into that. Just I mean, quickly, how often do you talk to President Trump? I I think if you watch the show, we're four hours a day, he gets clips every day, and I think you can see that a lot of the truth socials or things come out of some of the stuff we say, but it's it's frequently enough. Frequently enough, I don't want to listen. He's got the weight of the world on his shoulders. The last thing he needs is a Steve Bannon and call him up all the Time. Hey,

here are my thoughts. My thoughts are out. My thoughts are on that show every day. The reason the show is so powerful, it's a workingclass audience and a middle-class audience who are activists. We It's all about using your human agency and we and and and so and so by doing that he sees it. Is it sort of daily weekly? No no no I don't call I don't talk to him once a day. No be he's got the way of the world on shoulders. Why isn't he banned? Why isn't he banned bugging him for on the

reason I ask in this context is there's a budget before the house and that budget says we will pay for the tax cuts with cuts to Medicaid essentially 880 billion whatever it is to the middle class. Well hold it. He's not on and he's clearly Trump is clearly conflicted on this. He's got Elon Musk on this shoulder and Steve Batton on this or maybe it's Tucker Carlson. I don't know. But he has Well, Tucker not on the economics. He has different perspectives on the economics on both Medicaid and the tax cuts. He he watches the

show. He knows where I stand. We send the staff a lot of information and the Jason Millers in the world that are not in Remember there there many prominent people that uh that give advice to President Trump. Boris Epstein, Jason Miller who are not in the administration. Uh, you know, Scott Bessant was a contributor on our show. Navaro was a co-host, Russ Vote was a contributor. So, it's not that we lack for these things. And President Trump, I think that shows you the difference. The Republican party that that you talk about with Grover Norquist is

dead. Okay. The electorate has totally changed. We haven't changed the apparatus on Capitol Hill. That's why we still have these fights. They want to cut 880 billion dollars out of Medicaid. You can't do it because MAGA MAGA is on Medicaid because there's not great jobs in this country. Okay. So, let's say that it happens that let's typify it as a Grover Norquist bill because that is a Groven. I would rather I'd rather say I was Mark Ryland in Cromwell in Wolfall than Grover Norquist. It's certainly it's certainly more gripping to watch. Well, no, no, it's

not. This is this is gripping to watch. Um and and right now it looks like Grover Norquist bill is going to be passed. I totally I totally Disagree with you. Okay, first off, Groven Norcross doesn't want no tax on tips, no tax on social security, no tax on overtime. He's a protector of what the Republican party was and it kind of still part of it is is a big donor party. It's one of the problems with the Democrats. The big de the big donors run the Democratic party also. Everything you see on MSNBC and Fox

is all pro wrestling. It's not the heart of it. The heart of it is money and power. And That's what we're trying to do. were trying to do this by breaking the Grover Norquest mentality on Capitol Hill and it is a struggle. But I think if you see this bill right now, that's why they didn't they haven't put out whether the upper brackets are going to be permanent. There's all types of moving pieces on this and and the date you have to look at is the debt ceiling in August. This is going to be fought,

negotiated, marked up, debated uh Intensely over the next couple of months. Uh now I I take it you would support a tax increase on the very wealthy. Oh, definitely. A serious one or a symbolic one? No, seriously. The math doesn't work unless you do that. You have to for the upper bracket, I think the entire upper bracket, but I would go to a million dollars and above have to pay it to 40%. Have to pay it 40%. They don't get per they and they definitely don't get a tax cut Permanently. And if if they can't

help on cutting the spending, which they're one of the drivers of, eventually taxes may have to go up from from that. You can't we the system we have is unsustainable. You can't have $2 trillion deficits annually and continue to try to finance those where the where the world's reserve currency now but the BRICS nations and the rest of the world are getting you know smart to to the scheme. The reason I'm sort of pressing You on this is because you are really I mean you diagnosed I agree with your diagnosis of what's happened to the

middle class in the last 40 years or so. um they have been squeezed and there has been a rising inequality and there has been populist resentment. Some of it comes from that, not all of it but and we can get on to the other bits but um some of it comes from that. Um and so you identify inequality as an issue but the sort of simple way of looking at This thing is if you want to address inequality, you're going to have to reduce freedom. Freedom and equality are zero sum game. Yet your freedom for

the billionaires is that my trade-off? Oh, well that might be, but that's rhetorical. Let me finish my I'll I'll hit the bid on that. Um uh Okay. Um but the freedom and equality thing is generally seen as a as a trade-off. Um and yet your solution to the the I think correctly diagnosed for what it's worth Um middle class problem is for more freedom. It's the deconstruction of the administrative state. Yes. Which makes life easier for billionaires. That there's a real tension there. Yes. But okay, but hang on. Let's be specific right now. And this

is what populist nationalism is doing right now in this city. We have the oligarchs up against the wall. We have Google. This is the the the FTC under President Trump Ferguson. Uh Gail Slater and the team Over the antitrust division at at at uh at DOJ at Main Justice. Uh the FCC. And hey, we're all advocates of uh of uh Lena Khan, who was one of the best chairman of the FTC ever had and let hung out to dry by the Democratic party because they're owned by the oligarchs. We have the ol we have Google.

We're breaking up Google. We have the search engine in one court in Northern Virginia. We have the ad sales apparatus in the other. Facebook, he went and Begged Trump in the Oval Office multiple times, don't send me to trial. He's in trial right now. You sure this isn't a shakeddown and that at some point Google and Mark Zuckerberg and Sundai will be able to call off these antitrust actions by going to Trump and saying we'll give you a billion dollars of free legal advice. Look, there's President Trump by selecting this team, this team, we we

are neandisians like Lena Khan. This is the most aggressive antirust apparatus We've ever had. This goes back to like Teddy Roosevelt or you're confident that this is Here's where I'm confident. I'm I'm confident that they all came and begged for mercy. They all came and beg for mercy and they're all in federal court and getting broken up right now. Now, are they going The city people know this. The city's run by the by big pharma, big tech, and the big defense industry. Let's not kid ourselves. Let's have an adult conversation. They own it. They own

the law firms. They own the c they they're partners with the private equity firms. They own all the lobbyists. They own the media except for the Financial Times and a few brave others. No, but you know this. And so, yes, it's an uphill struggle and I think President Trump's been particularly heroic in this and hasn't gotten any credit. But look, every day in the Oval Office is a pressure cooker, right? Where they're Coming at him from every different angles. And you know, the Broligarchs uh you know, Elon Musk wrote a big check to back a

ground game that without that check, we would have won, but it had been a much tougher tractor pull. I don't think we would have heard about it at 10:00 at night on the 5th. Okay. So, they they get they get some runway, but Trump is crushing the oligarchs right now. You described Elon Musk as um I think a parasitical illegal immigrant. Is that right? Or words to that effect. Words to that effect. Yes. And being I'm very proud of the fact that I'm the only person except for some folks on the left that stood up

to him because of the H-1B visas. That's where it started, which is a total scam to do nothing but take jobs away. This is why we have no minorities, no blacks and Hispanics in Silicon Valleys because of H-1B visas. We're bringing indentured servants over here from other countries Who shouldn't be. It's out outrageous we're doing that. But that was just one. I mean, Elon Musk and I had many, many fights, but Elon Musk is gone, right? Elon Musk is gone. And uh and I'm still here. You are? I will concede that point. Um I I

mean uh and you also you called him a racist and said he should go back to South Africa. Um and what we are seeing though on the other side of the ledger is that the only refugees being admitted to this country are Africanas Aboas or whatever they I disagree with that totally. Um I it does look I mean if I I understand that there is a sort of fortress America element to MAGA but do you see how the rest of the world sees this? I look there's I don't agree with everything. You're not going to

agree with everything. There's so many huge things going on and President Trump on so many different levels is delivering so far beyond uh you know whether it's national security strategy, America first economics or the deportation the sealing of the border in 60 days when people told it's going to take 10 years and two million more invaders. He's doing so much. Some of the stuff I don't agree with. I think a lot of that's on the margin. I'm a believer that right now to protect the African-American and Hispanic community in this country, working-class and middle class

people, that we ought to cease at least temporarily all visas Into the country. All right. Well, I don't care if you're from Norway, South Africa, or wherever. Just work all work visas or no work visas. I I when President Trump said he wanted to put a green card staple to every college degree, I said and I said, "Look, I love the president. I know what he wants to make this the best and the brightest. I would staple an exit visa that gives them 30 days to go back home. The the American kids in this country

under 30 Can't get jobs they can buy houses on. The only way you're going to do that is start stop having the world come to their country and compete against them. And so I'm I'm I'm a hardcore we have to stop it temporarily. Get all the scams out of these visa programs because they're riddled with scams by the corporations. We have to make them for the American citizen first and the country first and then open it back up. Uh, so has Doge been a failure? Doge was Not a Here's Look, I was deconstruct the administrative

state and destroy the deep state. What Doge did I think you did have to give kind of a trauma blow to the administrative state to get their attention. What I didn't like about Doge, and I said it from day one, it's getting the people on Capitol Hill off the hook on the on the smart cuts we have to make to federal spending. We spend about a 1.7 trillion discretionary before you get to the entitlements Because you're never going to get to the entitlements. The American people will never trust you until they they see what you

can do on on uh discretionary and discretionary has to start in the Pentagon. We can't afford and we don't need a $1 trillion defense budget. Okay? And but you have to do it smartly. Look at all these all the congressmen were running around like little kids thinking he's some fairy godmother that's going to give him a trillion dollars in fraud. That's not going to happen. There is fraud in the system. There's plenty of fraud over in the Pentagon of which they didn't turn at least they didn't expose any. So it gave people off the hook.

So now we're in May with a debt ceiling that's going to come due and Scott Besson's as smart as you get with a debt ceiling that's going to come due in uh in in August. And if you look at these cuts, it's kind of ephemeral. It's 163 billion, but they didn't touch defense. You don't know if they're really real cuts. We've wasted in that regard, I think, you know, three or four valuable months because Doge didn't deliver. And if they have, I would love to do it. I keep asking Russ vote every couple of days.

Have we cottified the waste, fraud, and abuse that are supposed to be seen by by Doge? I saw yesterday on the Hill, I think the Senate voted against some some bill to actually codify the Doge cuts in one department. So, no, I Think overall what it's done is okay, but it's it's been like an IT department. So, one of your um most quoted comments is uh deconstruction of the administrative state. Yeah. Uh you want to cut the fiscal deficit, right? I mean, you you've just been outlining what a it's 6 and a half% of GDP

right now. We have to get down to three three. Is the IRS part of the administrative state? Yes. So, how you going to cut the deficit if you're not protecting tax? Well, I did say, listen, it's it's Do you cut blindly? No. The administrative state is become a fourth branch of government that's not elected. Whether AOC, and I saw it up close and personal in the in the White House, whether AOC's president or Donald Trump's president, the administrative state and the deep state run this town. Okay? They don't really. You're just passing through. That's what

we have to break up. This this fourth branch of government that Was never conceived in the Constitution. This is where I'm confused though. I mean, so I mean, is the DOJ and the FTC that are prosecuting Google, are they the deep state? The the the other No, the deep state is the No, that's the administrative state. And we fought or the administr the administrative state is the bureaucracy in the administrative state that runs things. The deep state is the kind of rogue pritorian guard of Certain elements of the defense department, intelligence, FBI, DOJ that run

the deal and have to be and have to be rooted out, root and branch. The administrator of state, we fought the other day on the show. We lit up Jordan's office when it came that they wanted to do away with the FTC. they magically want to do with the FTC and make one agency, right, as a cost cutting just when FTC's got Zuckerberg, you know, in in in in in court and we Came on and said, "No, you can't do it." And they backed off the other day. I'm not I'm not an anarchist and we're

not libertarians. We don't say you can't have any state. What you can't have is an administrative state that has a 7 trillion dollar budget that is out of control. You have to deconstruct that. You have to get down to the limited government. Conservatives have talked about it forever. We're actually doing it now and you can do it. And you can Keep an FTC, you can keep an FCC, uh you can keep a DOJ. FBI, quite frankly, I think the FBI should be eliminated. And Cash Patel is a very close friend of mine. And Cash Patel

clearly has other ideas because he went to Congress yesterday and asked for a billion dollars more than President Trump put in the budget. So, no, there's aspects of this that have to be taken apart. There are other aspects that have to be streamlined for more efficiency, more Effectiveness, but we're not anarchist. We don't want to get a we won't we don't want to do a waiver with all of the state. So I'm I'm aware of the time and I've got tons of questions but I'm aware it would be selfish to take up all the remaining

time and so that there will be some left for the audience. The other phrase that you're most quoted as having said is flooding the zone with Now flooding the zone with implies some of the stuff you're flooding isn't Right. Um so I promised I I promised I'd get back to the pope. Clearly, clearly Trump, you know, picturing himself sending out a picture, a meme of him as the pope, that right? And we all get outraged and our outrage is part of the pleasure of politics. It's two or three. It's two or three thing. It was

in the first term because we didn't, you know, we came from behind. We had no team, no organization, there was no bench. And I Said at the time to PBS, we were trying to put up two or three things a day. So the media jumps on one and the other two. They're not trolling. we get now this is why it was so well that was trolling though and then it worked right I mean I'd like to be pope I'd be a great pop per me pope clearly the reaction was outrage and and it's quite amus

but I was amused but that's how the left the left kills himself because they jump all over this that's trolling That's trolling but then some of the stuff isn't some of the stuff's real do you know instinctively when Trump how however often you talk to him do you know instinctively which and which is not no because you can see this is project 2025 five the the phrase that shall not be used right it in the this is why the providential win in 16 the steel in 20 was actually just as providential from our perspective we

could see just how radical this Government would be remember all of us in in Trump's inner circle and Trump himself debanked deplatformed uh IRS audits eventually prison they tried to send Trump to prison for 700 years so in but in doing this in coming back as Trump did in understanding what they're going to do. We had two a political strategy was the precinct strategy to get people active to use your agency to go take over every precinct to take over the Republican party and build a real Base of MAGA for Trump. Other was these public

intellectuals Steven Miller uh at America First Law, America First Policy Institute with Brooks Rollins, uh Russ Vote at CRA, uh Dement and Meadows over at CPI and the kind of overarching was the heritage Dr. Roberts in project 25 that was to take every vertical that we had to hit the deck plates and we had not done it in the first term and actually when you hit this time instead of two or three things you're going to Have five executive orders you're going to have five executive actions you're going to have actual things that you're going

to flood the zone and so overwhelm the opposition they can't come up and that is what the first 100 days I think has shown you to to there's been some trolling you know you can you can decode what Trump really means from what I mean presumably trade wars are easy to win. Something he's believed for many decades. Um or that at least trade wars Are worth fighting. Um that trade deficits are a measure of how much we're being ripped off. That's not flooding the zone with right? That is something that he actually believes. Whereas Yes,

we believe that to the core of our being, our movement believes that. Can you tell because there's stuff in between. Can you tell I don't know when he says uh Garcia has MS-13 on his knuckles? I mean, we know that's photoshop. No, but hang on. But when you When you've got he's a Maryland man and you know that he worked for a human trafficker in Houston. He was picked up in his car in Tennessee. We have police reports about that and the media is going to sit there like he's some innocent victim. Stop it. This

guy's a hardened criminal and he's leaving the country. And if the Democratic party wants to argue about a guy like that coming back from El Salvador from a prison, go ahead and argue it. It's a 9010 issue and you only This shows me how out of touch the Democratic Party is because that issue is about protecting Hispanics and African-American working class in this country. That you might be right about him. I don't know. But I mean, I think that the argument is also does he get due process? That's the real argument. But a guy here,

hold it. You don't get there is no due process. If you're not an American citizen, you're here illegally. There's no due process. And I'm telling you, you're this is coming to a head because President Trump, we started it on the show and this is how it picks up momentum. We are going to suspend the writ of habius corpus if the sup if the courts keep ruling against this and don't allow these mass deportations to to continue just like President Lincoln. This was an invasion. The country's at war. He's commander-in-chief. It's article two power. And this

is going to come. Are You predicting that will happen or I'm predict first off there is going to be a constitutional crisis before the court leaves. You know this. You just saw the federal judge judge in in in San Francisco last night ruled against him his article 2 power to basically uh rearrange and and and take you know fire people in these agencies etc. There's a challenge. The only way the Democrats are even winning right now is to delay is to to deny is to delay. They have no Political operation. They have no counterargument. They

have no populist economics. So, what they're doing is getting more and more radical on these raids like they did in New Jersey yesterday. And and the judges are are trying to stop him. The the Supreme Court's going to have to make a decision about President Trump's article 2 powers. And we're going to see it. And I believe if the courts keep trying to slow him down, you're going to see him, As Steven Miller laid out pretty well yesterday, and it'll be, I'm sure, developed over time, suspension of the writ of habius corpus, just like President

Lincoln did in the Civil War. But if um and and this is I'm asking for a prediction. If the Supreme Court votes the wrong way from your point of view, do you predict that Trump will ignore it? I think we'll have to wait till that time. That's what I'm saying. What's your instinct? I don't think first of All I don't think we'll lose. We'll win at least 54, probably more, but I I don't want to I don't want to, you know, handcuff President Trump on what he's going to do and what his possibilities are. He's

the commander-in-chief. He is uh we are have been invaded. This is the easy part, too. These are the criminals and the terrorists. We have 10 million more people that have to leave the country or we don't have a country. We have to do it humanely. We have to do it With the Judeo-Christian values, but they have to go. And this is what the Democrats know by jamming us up in court right now and making this so painful how tough it's going to be. But before the Supreme Court leaves for their summer break, there's going to

be there's going to be a constitutional crisis. Can we have like a 4-minute rapid fire round before I I'll open it to the audience? Uh will Trump run for a third term? Uh yes. So, and he'll win the third term and he'll be'll court think about that. I mean, we'll have to see at the time. Okay. I mean, it does. The 22nd amendment is pretty clear on this, right? There's it's pretty clear what his article 2 power is. And I think we have 250 lawsuits in federal court right now. So, when people tell me that,

it's pretty clear. It's pretty clear what the president's power is. It's pretty clear What his power is to basically uh reprogram. And he had a federal judge yesterday said it gave a temporary restraining order for the entire nation on 21 different agencies. So when I hear that argument, I say, "Hey, the Supreme the the Constitution's clear on a lot of things until it's defined. President Trump will run again. He will run again and he will win again and he'll be the president on the afternoon of 20 uh January 2029." But you're you're Justifying him breaking

the 22nd amendment by saying you think you you're questioning judges orders on various executive actions is saying I didn't say we're going to break I'm going to say we're going to break the 22nd amendment. There are multiple workarounds. You mean running his de running his running? There's many there's multiple at the at the appropriate time probably after the 22 midterms. I will lay out the case of the President Trump has nothing to do With this. He's already said, "Hey, look, I want to be here four years and do a great job." And you can tell

the pressure on him every day. He's leaving for Saudi Arabia what tomorrow. The pressure on him every day. This is something that we're totally doing on the outside. But it's a very serious effort. And the reason it's a serious effort, a guy like Trump comes along once in a country's history. We've had General Washington at the at the birth Of the country. We've had Lincoln at the rebirth. We've had President Trump. This is the age of folks, you can like it or not like it. Let me give you a fact. You're living in the age

of Trump. This is the age of Trump. He's totally redefined American politics. He's totally redefined politics going forward. He's saved our nation from going down at the hands of these globalists. So, let's get back to rapid fire. I mean, and I was going to move as The question was going to be, is um Vladimir Putin a force for good? No, he's KGB agent, not not a force for good. The Russian people, you saw the the ceremony the other day. Russian people were our great ally in World War II. 35 million gave their lives fighting the

Nazis like Lao Baing, the Chinese, and we abandoned both of them at the end of the war and threw them to the dogs. And then in ' 89 with both of those systems collapsed, we threw them to the Dogs again. Those are our allies. No, Putin's not a good guy. He's not a not a force for good in the world. He's a he's a KGB guy. Um, if uh was Joseph Stalin a force for good in the world? Are you asking me? No, I was saying because we were partnered with Joseph Stalin. He's right up

there with Hitler. Okay. We part we've partnered with very bad people in the past. And what you saw happening in Moscow the last couple days was she and Putin looking like uh two uh Teenagers on a first date is not good for this country. We had every opportunity to try to have a Ra Russian Raan and pull Russia out of that uh out of that relationship with China and this is going to have now a massive terrible impact not just for our current generation but for future generations. Are you turning a bit on Putin because

No, I've never I've I've never been a a pro Putin guy. How do you think Trump is turning a bit on Putin? I don't think So. I think, look, he understands these guys are the moolas, she the the criminals in Beijing and uh in Moscow. These are bad ombres. Nobody says they're good guys. They're bad ombres. Trump knows that they didn't cross Trump. They wouldn't have gone to Ukra. They didn't go to Ukraine when Trump is there because they're not going to cross him. But President Trump's seeing it right now and trying to get to

some solution in in Ukraine. He sees exactly How they act. They're going to do what's in their interest, right? And this is going to be a grind. And that's I think with President Trump going to the Gulf Emirates this week is a start, right? He just they had some sort of involvement in this Kashmir thing. I think what people understand that arc of instability from Ukraine all the way down through Turkey that arc of instability is like a tinder box right now. You're one one misstep away from The whole thing going up. This is this

is the kinetic part of the third world war. It's much bloodier what's happened the last since Ukraine than what happened from Poland to June of 41 with the Vermach going into to Russia. It's much bloodier. It's five times bloodier. We're in a kinetic part of a global struggle right now. So two very final and I mean rapid if possible more rapid than it's been. Um, uh, which Democrat do you most Fear? Right now, none really because, uh, they haven't embraced economic populism and economic nationalism. There's a lot of talent over there. It just seems to

kind of wander around. You have a lot of governors that could be very competitive, although I think we're past that era. you've got maybe it's a Mark Cuban, you know, you you don't know how Nsome is going to reposition himself and we'll have to see. It's going to be they have to get a idea of how to turn The country around economically. The final one then we'll go to the floor. Um the um comment that Trump made the other day with Terry Moran of ABC that um no, he's not going to run for a third

term. He's not going to take your advice and it should be Vance or Rubia. That sounded to me like a classic. Set your underlings against each other. Are you set among others? Um, but you know, if if if you were to choose who would Trump's successor be, who would that be? Trump. It's gonna be Trump because otherwise you're going to get around all the court intrigue. We have to focus. We have to mania. We have a we need a sense of urgency on what we're doing. And that to me is the best way is to

just focus on it's going to be Trump. We'll figure out how we get there. We're already way down the road on that. Focus on now between now and the midterms of everything that has to happen. uh national Security-wise, the economy, uh the deportations, you got so many huge Think about it. Every day there's some historical event going on. We have to focus on that. And and if we get caught up in the court intrigue, and that's what the media wants. The media wants a horse race. They want court intrigue inside the White House between Marco

and JD. It's not relevant. It's irrelevant. It's Trump wanted that though. That I mean, that was my point. Um so, sorry. I've been stealing time first of all here and then there and then Demetri. Yes. Um, one, two, three. Steve, can you preview Hello. Uh, can you preview what's going to happen locally in DC if the Bowser Act passes and home rule goes away? You have any knowledge on that? Well, how could how could it get as a resident of DC, how could it get any worse under home rule? I mean, home rule has been

a disaster. I think I think this that's Why I wanted Ed Martin to be DC attorney. But Gene and those people who didn't like Ed Martin, Judge Janine will be 10 times of a bigger hammer. But you know, they already took down the crime I think 20 or 25%. This is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. It ought to be one of the safest cities in the world and it's a very unsafe city. I live right in back of the Supreme Court on Capitol Hill and it's very unsafe there. And so we

we have to do something And I think it's got to be pretty dramatic. Second, then third. So the gentleman there and then and then Dmitri. Hi Steve. I'm James Ly Williams. Would you say the American people have a common narrative or perception of how well the country is doing or not doing? And secondly, would it be advantageous to the president's success in leading the nation for the people to have a shared narrative on how well the country Is doing or not? And finally, what is the role of the media in driving to that shared narrative

if it is indeed advantageous or desired? I I think I think the shared narrative, if you look at workingclass people, there's 9 million people that have working two jobs is what 1.4 tr there's $1.4 trillion of credit card debt. 10% of that's non-performing. The life of the working class of people that get up every day, black, Hispanic, white, Asian, and go to work is terrible in this country. They can barely make it. They're falling behind every day. This is why they don't want to be on Medicaid. The reason MAG is on Medicaid because the jobs

we shipped all the highvaluated manufacturing jobs Wall Street did and the private equity firms did overseas so that they can make Laai slave labor. So the nar there's a common narrative and the media doesn't go look for it. And this is why Trump keeps Coming up as a surprise. Why does Trump keep winning? Why does Trump have increasing support among particularly black men? Why does Trump have support of Hispanics? Why did Star Valley Star County in Texas is 97% Hispanic down the rear Grand Valley? It's the most hardcrabled county in this country. We lost it

by 60 points in 2016. We won it by 16 points in 2024. The Hispanic community is coming our way. The black community is coming our way. That's the Common narrative. It's right there before if if the dem if the credential class of the Democratic party gave a they just went out and just saw what they saw, they would understand what the common narrative of this is, that the working class and middle class in this country are getting screwed by the elites in this nation. Yeah. Uh Steve Dmitri from the FT, how do you defend to

the MAGA um camp that you are a fan of the newspaper that's loved by The credentialist class in America? That that's that's my simple question. My other question is in the last few decades one of the most conservative justices in the Supreme Court, Scalia, he and Ginsburgg didn't agree on very much. They both agreed that people in the United States, whether they are citizens or an Irishman like me, are afforded the same rights under the Constitution. Why was Sculia wrong? I I don't think foreigners are courted The the rights, but I'm not a constitution. It's

my it's my well it's my own personal belief but I think that'll also be tried again with the uh the same with the 14th amendment. Your first question I I I teach this how is war room so powerful to a bluecollar and workingclass audience. We teach this newspaper every day. We pull Ed's clips on Morning Joe. And it's interesting the only time you see the Financial Times the only time you see people really Talking about issues on MSNBC either Morning Joe or Stephanie Rule early in the morning late at night. The whole rest of it

is nothing but pro wrestling. Totally irrelevant. That's what that's why the Democratic Party is not going to change. It's just grievance and Trump, they're blowing their heads up. This paper, you guys are globalists. I understand that. I don't fault you with that. The best way to teach a workingclass audience how the nation Really works, not what they see on Fox, all that phony crap on Fox. Is to show them how money and power work. to show them what capital markets are, why the 10-year bond's so important, why Liz Trust got turfed out by the bond

market, why we as Americans are now going to have our own moment with the bond market. Because when this comes this August with the debt ceiling, don't think we have unlimited alternatives. We as Americans, because we either kick the Can down the road or let the elites in the country make decisions, we are every day having narrower and narrower alternatives. This is why now we have to go into discretionary spending. That's going to hurt. And guess what? That's just the t that's just the first level. It's going to hurt a lot more. So the FT

and I also when I taught my class in prison, I used the FT. [Applause] Sorry. Uh I didn't see hands. No, I can't believe there are no questions. I can see a hand there. Sorry, it's a bit bright. Thank you, Steve. Can you speak to uh deregulation and AI and the effects on the electorate and how the administration may reconcile that tension between achieving that and helping American workers? It is uh the most serious thing I think we have and I do respect the pope Yesterday when he said he took Leo the 14th as because

Leo the 13th was about social justice in the industrial revolution and he wanted to be that about artificial intelligence. Right now, a nail salon in Washington DC has more regulations than these four guys running wild on artificial intelligence. Right now, we have no earthy idea what's going on. Remember, the Democratic Party made a a deal with those oligarchs in 2000 when Obama ran that they would have No antirust. You know, Facebook, Google, uh Twitter, all of it, all the big five. And what happens? The Chinese come out with Tik Tok and show on the social

media side that we're years behind. We're like we're like Model T cars compared to their addictive social media. And then Deep uh C comes out whether it's a Chinese SCOP or real and shows us that our method of artificial intelligence not the best. And what the oligarchs ask for right away they ask For a bailout. They want $500 billion and they want us to turn the National Weapons Labs over to them. These people's greed and avarice know no bounds and they are working on things right now that we will not be able to control. I

I call for I think we ought to have tremendous regulations on artificial intelligence and I don't want to hear the Chinese are so far behind so far ahead. Okay, that's an excuse. We can work this out. And if we have to, You're going to get to a time that you're going to have military intervention on these data centers to take care of art out of control artificial intelligence going down the path we're going, which is quite dangerous. So, I think time for one, depending on the length of your answer, maybe two two more questions, but

certainly one uh sorry uh I can't really see uh uh we haven't had a um a woman asking a question. Yeah. Hi, Steve. Thank you. Um, I have a question about jobs. So, you said that, um, you know, you'd like to bring good jobs back to America? So, two-part question. First is, um, if you deport all the illegal immigrants, who is going to mow your lawn, clean the kitchens, you know, pick fruit and all that? These are not very good jobs. So, who's going to do them? And then the second question is about good jobs.

So the good jobs are For low class is building iPhones and for middle class is tech jobs. And a lot of people have said that there are not enough skilled people here in this country to do these jobs. You know tech tech companies are not stupid. They hire H-1B people because they're skilled. They have the skills. They're not enough. No. No. Stop. Please stop. That is not true. That is not true. This is the false narrative they put out. I have asked for the millions of HB1 people That are here. I have said, "Show me

one, not two, not three, show me one that has a higher education level or a better job training for the bill at their end than an American citizen. This is a total scam." And and your question quite frankly is all this is all the Wall Street. Oh no, the American people are too lazy. They're too uneducated. You know what? The American people have freed more people and built more wealth than any other nation on this earth. And If I get a bet, I'm going to bet on them. And we're going to win this bet. So

yes, the people here, you have indentured servants that came into the country illegally that are going to cut your grass for less money than you pay an American. And that's appropriate. It's not appropriate. You don't have a country like that. We've destroyed the working class. Mowing alone is not a great job for anyone. I started mowing lawns. People start this is how people Start. And if at certain point in time you need worker visas, whatever, you can work that out after you've taken care of the problem. Let's see if that's a problem. Let's see where

these labor shortages are. And right now, you can't tell me there's not enough qualified American kids coming out of engineering schools that could fill every job in Silicon Valley. The reason is they're paying them 50% less and they're works in their lifestyle. They're working, you Know, it's like slave labor. It's not it's not right. It's indentured servitude. It should never go on in our country. And we're not going to show the working class in this country. We're particularly not going to show African-Americans and Hispanics that you actually have a way in a modern industrial society

until we make these changes. And yes, they're going to be hard. I'm not sitting here saying it's going to be easy, but we're America. This is what we do. We're not going to just sit there and go, "Okay, let's have the whole world here." Because Americans are too dumb and lazy to take these jobs. So, are we Sorry, I can't really see anybody. Um, am I supposed to end now? It's been at zero for a while. is we could end on lawn mowing if um uh is anybody. All right. Oh, Mark, sorry. All right, Mark.

Steve, longtime listener, first- time caller. I agree with so much of what you say is your diagnosis, but then we break. There's certain bits where I just can't take it. And one part of this to follow up on what was just said is I absolutely agree. We shouldn't be We shouldn't be celebrating people mowing a lawn for two bucks. It's ridiculous, right? But there is such a thing as demography. We didn't have enough kids. The population is getting older. Look at the average age of this room. Okay. Right. Hang on. And No, no, seriously. Why

do we have We don't have Because people under 35. No, hang on. Hang on. Hang on, Steve. No, come on. Let me finish. Right. Immigration is part of the human experience. I am a Scot who lives in America. I'm a naturalized citizen. I love this country. Do you want to deny that to everyone? Well, what is going on here? Of course, I don't want to deny it to everyone, but we got to get our own House in order first. Let's talk about demographics. Why are we having fewer kids? Because the the the economic formation of

people comes later. Young men don't have great jobs right now in this country. young women. There's not My dad was a foreman for the phone company. We had five kids and went to Catholic school and a mom who was a homemaker who raised us. That's the country we got to get back to. And that's the country we can get back To. I didn't say that you had Come on. I didn't say that the wife had to be the homemaker. You can make a pick. This is why you're not serious. This is why you're not serious.

We have a demographic problem in the country because of an economic problem that under that un under underlays it. You've got to solve that economic problem. Kids under 40 today. They're nothing more than Russian surfs. They don't own anything and they're not going to own Anything. And that's not we haven't done this for 14 generations to leave it like that. That has to be changed. We have to change that. And yes, the people that want to come over here and immigrate, there's a system for that. And we're not going to shut that down. I think

we have to shut down the scams or these visas right now to give priority to American citizens. And yes, we can get back to a situation where you have one provider, whether it's the husband or the wife, The other is at home, and you can raise kids like we used to raise kids in this country with hands-on from their parents. And that's when we're going to turn this country around. And if you and if you're going to laugh and mock at that, fine. Laugh and mock of it. But that's what we're working on, the family

as the unit. Steve f I mean first of all let let me just say I have to end it because it's been it's now sub subzero um and they've had enough I have to say What no I think it's been very engaging and I and I I will say one thing um you I mean you engage with us and I can think of people who manage institutions not very far from here who are not very engaging on on your side of the political spectrum and so thank you for being here and engaging with us. Thank

you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me.