The MAJOR difference between TOXIC and NARCISSISTIC relationships

okay so let's make an important distinction this might be most one of the most crowny distinctions of this YouTube channel what's the difference between a toxic person or toxic relationship and a narcissistic one or maybe the question is is there a difference listen up once upon a time and not long ago but once upon a time very very very few people talked about narcissism except people who had an academic or clinical interest in it like I did then everybody started talking about about narcissism and now nobody seems to be understanding it it's important we don't

use the word where it doesn't apply because when we use the word narcissism incorrectly it's not doing anyone any favors so the other day I was working on something it was an exercise I was developing for other people and I was doing it myself to ensure it made sense and in the exercise it requires a person to sort of hone in on the most impactful narcissist istic relationships in their lives and as I did this exercise myself to make sure that it sort of all worked it was explained clearly I recognize that there were more

than just a few people in my life who I really did not like being in the presence of I find them interpersonally icky I sort of dreaded seeing them I felt like they were a waste of time sometimes and I avoided but I felt it would be a bridge too far to call them narcissistic toxic where I was concerned definitely yes narcissistic Maybe maybe not so let's take this on I come to your house it's your birthday I hand you a grocery bag it's got a bag of flour in or it's just got a dozen

eggs in it what do you do I imagine you look at me oddly maybe you wonder if it's a cultural thing maybe you ask me about it but one thing you probably don't do is think that oh that's nice Dr romeny just gave me a cake however that's what we often do when we call people narcissistic maybe a person's just entitled they do think they deserve special treatment they're a jerk in restaurants they have a whole call the manager Vibe they get Gruff when they have to stand in line it's embarrassing to be with them

at those times but it's just that it's sort of an Vibe and a note to self of oh definitely don't want to take a trip with this person kind of vibe but they really actually aren't admiration seeking or validation seeking and they aren't really grandiose except for maybe thinking that they shouldn't have to wait in line they do at times a lot of times have empathy and maybe it's true emotional empathy except for that poor waiter that they're yelling at I suppose but again it's just this kind of almost privileged entitlement is that a narcissist

personally I would say no but someone who only had a snapshot of seeing them in that restaurant would be tempted to say I bet that person's narcissistic if you know them you may say yeah they're a bit toxic but it's the bag of flour it's just the dozen eggs it may not be the whole cake the traits that Encompass narcissism are person who has low inconsistent empathy grandiosity entitlement arrogance they're very superficial they have an excessive need for admiration and validation and praise they Envy other people or they believe other people Envy them they're pathologically

selfish that's pretty much the cake and you can't leave any of the ingredients out you need them all to call it narcissism these traits show up as manipulation gaslighting being dismissive minimizing other people having contempt for them betraying people belittling them shifting blame being angry rage having poor frustration tolerance passive aggression being controlling a need for power they lie they future fake the traits the lack of empathy and all the rest of it drive the behavior the thing that motivates them is their need for control Power domination something to offset their insecurity and shame it's

a big cake and you need the all the ingredients and yes there are different kinds of narcissism just like there's different kinds of cake but the base is the same the vulnerable narcissist is more passively aggressive Sullen and more socially anxious and Sullen and sad and grumpy the grandiose narcissist is more showy and charming and charismatic and attention seeking the malignant narcissist is more controlling and menacing and mean and kind of scary the communal narcissist gets their validation through the sneaky back of look what a great helpful charitable person I am now take a picture

of me being so nice the self-righteous narcissist is seemingly Ultra responsible but also very judgmental does that make sense right so the types are like the frosting or the flavor like chocolate or red velvet or whatever the Cake's the cake one way to think of it is that all narcissistic people are toxic but not not all toxic people are narcissistic what makes a person toxic then is what you might be wondering a toxic person may make us uncomfortable by how they treat us or other people they might feel a little dismissive at times they may

have crappy boundaries they're demanding when you're with them you feel like you can never get it right with them or they're fussy or they get mad or sad or they withdraw easily when they don't get their way toxic people are unkind they may have strong beliefs and not listen to other people I guess very stubborn they don't listen very well but to be toxic you don't need to be all of these things because toxic is subjective one person may find a tech bro type who brags and drinks kale smoothies and wakes up at 400 a.m.

to meditate and meet with their Guru and blabs on about living to be 180 years old and is snobby about other people's Lifestyles as being so unhealthy someone someone else may find them admirable that Tech bro may actually be nice enough to lots of people probably their Guru but they may just be super rigid about their sort of kale meditation schedule and really believe that they're going to live forever and snears at you for having a bagal but they also may not be manipulative or future fake or gasl they may just want things the way

they want them and organize their lives in a way that allows that for example they don't have a partner no kids so no one's really being hurt by their 400 a.m. wakeups and chanting with the guru and they're aware and know that a partner wouldn't fit in their life or kids wouldn't and someone else may not see them as toxic at all they might even see them as aspirational one person may find a busybody mother who has an alphabetized refrigerator and makes her kids Bento boxes for lunch and is up to ears her ears in

the PTA of it all and looks a little sideways at the moms who aren't involved and insists that little Johnny takes violin lessons and do karate and take animation classes and judges the moms who give their kids sugar a lot of people might look at her as pain in the ass and you pray she doesn't want to talk when you run into her with your store-bought cupcakes but yeah she might actually be a little empathic and you've seen her be empathic toxic sure narcissistic probably not toxic is subjective some things bother us based on our

histories our families of origin our experiences in the world our beliefs and our own quirks and yes some people may find our quirks toxic I have no doubt that every single person in the planet has at least one other person who finds them toxic in some way it may be very unlikely with some folks but even when I think of the sweetest of the sweet people I know I also know of at least one person who finds them toxic that's just how people work in general we find people toxic when we perceive and experience that

we cannot fully be ourselves with them and not only have to feel as though we have to modify ourselves in different ways but that that other person has no interest in seeing our whole selves and if we show up as our whole selves they will either not see all of us or they'll have a problem with it so we might feel a little little less than comfortable when we are with them and that discomfort that sort of unsettledness is what may make a person feel toxic to us and the toxic part comes when we don't

see a path forward with them I know people personally who are racist and classist and every other kind of IST you can think of I find them toxic for how offhandedly they can share those really dismissive beliefs however I also know that there are people in their midst who will tell me Romany really really they do have a heart of gold they did this for this neighbor and that for the other person and they did do those things and frankly they may even seem like a decent per person they may even seem like a decent

person certainly to those people they helped right maybe even to strangers until this other topic and then I feel sick to me my personal definition of toxic that feels toxic because I feel sick in their presence when they're saying that stuff so no matter how many driveways they shovel for free and how many dinners they walk across the street to someone and how sweet they are to their grandchildren I don't care that feels toxic to me others don't see them that way that's why this experience of toxicness is tricky I have heard people call people

who have these different beliefs from them toxic people they find to be very judgmental as toxic people they feel they have to be ultra careful around and choose every word precisely or the other person will be judgmental as toxic people they have to walk on eggshells around as toxic people who are very competitive with them as toxic people who are overly theatrical and dramatic in their gestures and storytelling as toxic people who write mean comments on social media as toxic and people who are very snobby as toxic listen you can drop in the comments the

stuff that makes someone toxic to you it's not going to be the same for everyone or if you even agree and as I went through and I did as thinking about this video I went through my phone like you know the contacts in your phone and I stopped on the names of the people I kind of consider toxic and it always came down to the same thing with me as I saw these names people where I feel a little bit of a clenching in my gut because I have to be so damn careful about what

I say where I sort of feel like I don't know breathlessness I guess because I know they're going to say some kind of mean little Zinger about me or someone I care about people where they say things about groups of people that are dismissive intolerant and ignorant people who are abrupt and sort of interpersonally cold people where I just feel that I have to be so very very very very careful around I also had to recognize that some of these patterns that I was experiencing as toxic may be cultural especially the abruptness Okay but it

doesn't mean I Like It ultimately the sensation of toxic may be just that a sensation something we hold in an embodied way that reflects our PR references are histories and maybe the better way to approach it is not even that this is a toxic person that's a bit of an indictment but these are really toxic patterns for me and may not necessarily be someone you would work well with or want to spend your precious Leisure Time with toxic things make us sick and these interactions can have that sensation of like oh I kind of feel

sick after I spend time with this person we're living in divided times no matter everyone can agree on that ironically and language matters many of us can navigate toxic relationships without feeling that we are being psychologically torn apart the way we do when we're in a narcissistic relationship narcissistic relationships have much more far-reaching effects in toxic relationships the interactions may be unpleasant but in the macro we might sort of roll our eyes and say HH all right they'll be there and we grit our teeth and we get through them but it may not get under

our skin the same way we not may not feel confused or crazy or dumb or as though it's our fault in every toxic relationship now when the toxic Behavior or relationship is narcissistic then yeah then you're going to feel those things but before you call someone or a relationship or behavior narcissistic really pull it apart look at the ingredients don't call the eggs a cake figure out if it's all there because narcissistic relationships really do do a number on you folks we're going into the lovely holiday season and you know the difference the toxic family

member may be the one where you sort of laugh it off or or internally roll your eyes or recognize once again I'm going to get a gift that I have no use for or may not want to have a long conversation with but you understand them and you know what you're getting with them and you don't feel I guess triggered per se the narcissistic folks you feel them more deeply and that feeling lasts and it destabilizes you there's a difference healing from toxicity when it's not about narcissism doesn't even feel like heal healing it feels

like sort of like a g here we go again the idea that that toxic people may not manipulate or do do those things that are part of the narcissistic power play can help you see the difference so-called toxic folks I mean more people doing toxic behaviors are just sort of living their lives and doing their thing and the way they do those things just may not work for you we don't have the luxury of lifting up the hood on a person and peering in a person whose behavior is toxic who is not narcissistic May not

have the same Demons of insecurity and shame that a garden variety toxic or difficult person has and without that knowledge some people I know they're just a handful but it's not a big psychological storm inside them those are often the toxic folks who are not narcissistic I use the example of someone who's cold and abrupt listen let's say it's a high stakes day for example you're very sick and the doctor is abrupt and sort of cold even if they are a great doctor that response may feel really toxic that day but it may also be

sort of cultural it may be how they work and it's not because that doctor has unresolved insecurities on another day if you met that doctor maybe not as a doctor but maybe you met them socially at a friend's house you may still think they're a bit of a dick but you also may find that they have dry humor context matters too and one last way to think about this you and a friend you adore just love just love this friend you both know a third person and your friend loves this third person love spend time

love spending time with them but you feel sick when you spend time with this third person for your reasons and so it becomes something that you and the adored friend just sort of dance around the adored friend spends time with that third person that you find toxic on their own clearly your friend doesn't see that person as toxic and they're not having that experience with them every human being is a stimulus and a response and you can actually kind of also see why your friend likes them and why you don't and you and this friend

you adore will never agree on the idea that this third person is toxic because it's subjective narcissism Isn't So subjective it is much more a definable personality style based on an accumulation of looking at a person's behavior I'm the first to tell you it feels like an insult to be called toxic or to call someone toxic and I get that but focus on the subjectivity part narcissism isn't subjective and when all those traits line up it is not good for anyone not their families not their spouses or Partners not their colleagues or employees or friends

or Neighbors or communities or anything that they're in charge of toxic people or people with toxic Behavior who are not narcissistic maybe annoying even upsetting at times but maybe not as universally harmful and we will never all agree on whether they are toxic or not and the tricky part we may love these toxic people it may be your adult child and may be an old friend from way back back it may be a sibling you can even see how they've burned Bridges with other people but you know them you get them and it's not and

the experience you have with them it's not that dismantling experience we have when we're with someone narcissistic and if you've had both kinds of relationships in your life a narcissistic relationship with a narcissistic person a person who's a lot more toxic you know the difference and you may feel quite guilty for viewing them as being somewhat toxic because you fig figed out so many workarounds with some of the toxic folks in your life words matter folks and narcissism is a very useful word when we use it correctly toxic is a tricky word but stick to

it being subjective your experience it may not be someone else's and unlike narcissism frankly I do believe toxicity can shift a little bit you may even be able to have a conversation with a person whose Behavior feels toxic and find that there is a shift you may still not love spending time with them but there might be a time when they're not as defensive or anger or blame Shifty if you were even bring up like oh that thing you did I wasn't cool with that they may even say hey you know what I am who

I am and thanks for sharing and then folks the balls in your court and that feels very different someone's saying yeah okay got it I I I'll cop to that that feels very different than someone gaslighting you so again going back to the examples I gave even of our Tech bro friend let's listen is him getting up early and meditating and criticizing your bagel and all that is that toxic again it's very subjetive someone else might say that's just who he is why is that bothering you and you have your reasons for it but I

think the Big Challenge here is that we've gotten so lost in narcissism and toxicity being synonymous remember all narcissism is toxic it's not good for us but this idea that there are people in our lives where we don't like spending time with them and we consider it time served and we tolerate it because we've got to see them at the Wednesday staff meeting or we've just got it we we need to count on them to get things done but when we break it down we're like oh they're not narcissistic but why are they getting to

me because it's not Groundhog Day folks we're not we're not starting as a blank slate every day we're an accumulation a snowball rolling down the hill Gathering more and more stuff and experience and all that and those are going to affect how we interact with the world and and also like I said that painful recognition that someone I can promise you that someone out there in the world thinks you're toxic and and that's based on some of the behaviors you engage in that are very much you and their experiences in the world but then it's

very different because after spending time with someone who may be somewhat toxic but not narcissistic again it's a bit of an eye roll and thinking I don't need to do that again for a month but you definitely don't spend the next week ruminating and wondering and feeling like oh my gosh like I I I can't even get my head around this that's not what this is It's again toxicity is really based on a subjective experience we have with someone there ain't nothing objective about it which is why you and your best friend May simply not

agree on whether or not someone's toxic hope that distinction is helpful and thanks again