Tony Robbins on the Future of Health & Longevity

We're all living I know in challenging times but you're actually living in the best time to be alive the opportunities that are going to happen in the next 12 to 13 years for people who take care of themselves are beyond their wildest imagination because we're at the base of that explosive geometric curve right now and it's pretty darn exciting welcome to the uh Mark and Ben podcast and today we have a super Special guest um the world famous Tony Robbins who is um in in my view having uh read a lot of his stuff and

taken his seminar probably you know one of the great psychologists of the last 50 years um and uh he's done just incredible work and helped so many people and he is kind of the person the number one person that you call if you need to you know kind of improve your performance or or get your head together whether you're a president or a great athlete or anything so it's a Tremendous privilege to have him here and with us also is the head of our bof fund Dr VJ pondi who um will be very helpful as

Tony's last book is a book called life force which is h a book all about regenerative medicine and um how to basically live your best healthiest life with the uh best health span possible so with that welcome Tony well thank you thank you for a ni's introduction as I said before we get on you guys are the legends here I'm so Grateful to have an opportunity to visit with you what you've created around the world the kinds of companies you guys have helped make happen and support uh is super inspiring so thanks for having me

on yeah no absolutely um so want to start just a little with um you know you have this great story that kind of led to your book or and led to your kind of work in the field of Health um where you had a snowboarding accident um which is a lot you know kind of following you Over the years a lot of where you know kind of some of your best work comes from is your worst moment so maybe you you could talk a little bit about that and how that how that happened here well

sure I've always been involved in health uh you know I'm kind of a biohacker myself I have to be I was followed for three and a half years by a group that worked with Tom Brady and a lot of the greater sports teams and they were tracking my body and you know I do these Events that are four to seven days and I've got 15,000 people in a stadium and I got to hold the person at the top for 12 hours not a 2hour movie uh that somebody spent $300 million to make so it's just

me so the amount of energy running around the building going up engaging people uh is amazing I've burned 11,300 calories on average believe it or not every single time on a single day I jump a thousand times I weigh 290 Pounds so every time you come Down your body hits four times the body weight so imagine a million jumps you know a million pounds of pressure I should say a thousand times a thousand happens in a day so as a result of all that I'm always looking for breakthroughs but I'm also a little crazy and

I was following one day a 20-year-old snowboarder down the hill and I did not have their moves and I discovered that the hard way and I woke up having taken a jump and I thought I Broke my neck I tore my rotator cuff severely and the nerve pain from that if you've ever experienced it's pretty brutal so you know I own pieces of several sports teams fortunately and we have some of the best doctors in the world both the Dodgers and the Warriors and so it's like okay um what should I do Doc and every

single one of them surgery surgery and they're like okay what's the prognosis well between three and six months of rehab and it can Happen again and I said what about stem cells because you know I've been reading about stem cells and hearing about them like everyone else and they said oh no no it's worthless you know it's not going to do anything for you uh but for me it was like you know just like investing you know I I want to see where the least amount of risk or the greatest possible reward where the asymmetrical

risk reward here and I started asking around I asked a dear friend of mine Peter dandz who I think you guys may know know yeah Peter's dear friend and partner and I said who's the best in the world in this area you you've got to know him and he said I do his name is Bob Harari he'll introduce you and it's was kind of like saying I want to learn about basketball so I'll introduce you my friend LeBron James you know Bob's like you know one of the founders of what stem cells have done for

people long story short he said they're right If you use your own stem cells you're over the age of 40 I'm not going to see much but if you go down to Panama or various other places he told me I could go and you get four day old stem cells that come from the core that's normally thrown away he said I think you'll see a transformation and he said look you look a risk reward if it doesn't work and you always go to the surgery so long story shortened I went down four days several injections

first day was just really Tired second day I woke up and I had spinal stenosis as well for example for 14 years no pain in my spine for the first time in 14 years shoulder feeling perfect you know three months later the MRI there's absolutely nothing wrong I've never done anything since so I got invited by the pope believe it or not the pope does the biggest you know uh conference every two years on understanding these new cellular medicines because it's no longer fetal Tissue obviously no one's doing that and so I was invited to

be a cleanup speaker for four days the best experts in the world and I said I'm coming I'm coming for all four days and I met people that were sent home to die and who are totally healthy today and got to hear all of these breakthroughs and I said how come the world doesn't know about it and then I been out the studies of show the amount of time it takes for a breakthrough to happen to get your a Clinician on average is 27 years it's just crazy and I said Dr VJ nodding his head

he knows obviously works with you instead of the traditional approach so I said I want to get that out but I want it not to be my opinions like my financial books I interview the best in the world and find out what they're saying not the average person because the average doctor even great ones were saying this is a waste of my time and they were dead wrong so this book is Filled it's 700 pages es of the very best to increase your energy your strength and your longevity from the best experts in the world

wow and kind of you you kind of slept in you went to Panama um to get that treatment and so kind of what what what are the factors in our uh system that kind of make that only available in Panama and you have to do this medical tourism in order to get I mean it's kind of weird well I have to leave America and go to Panama to get Healthy that seems um maybe you should ask Dr VJ more about that he and I would probably agree the FDA you know they have a tough job

right really tough job and these are you know new breakthroughs for them and it takes a long time for them to approve something but you know there are several idn I have a company here in the US that people go to called Fountain life where they do all their Diagnostics and you know saves a lot of lives because you discover within a few Minutes you know something someone didn't know was going on in their body they had no sense of um and but while they're there we also gotten some idn to do some of those

studies with stem cells here in the country so you can get those exceptions but you got to know where they are and you got to be part of a study to do it yeah and and VJ like what kind of what led to that you know particularly with stem cell research yeah I mean stem cell research is a part Of the larger regenerative medicine where people are first just try to understand biology because it's kind of amazing to think about even like how a human being gets created it sums from these original cells that become

all different types of cells and you combine that with the fact that you know when we think about disease we think of disease as something bad happening to us but a lot of that stuff is exacerbated with age and that age itself is like so much Of the challenge that we get cancer and Alzheimer's and type two diabetes with such greater uh incidents as you get older so aging itself is so much of the problem and I think you combine these two things together you get cells that are young that don't have these sort of

the garbage that sort of adds up as time goes on uh really amazing things are possible things that sound like miraculous or like science fiction but just even going from like sperm and egg To a baby is kind of miraculous if you think about it miracles happen all the time and now the question is how can we harness the miraculous biology that's already happening and you know athletes are usually the first people to do this because they're like biohackers right so my clients like Christiano Ronaldo he turned things around in six weeks that would have

taken six months and he did it with stem cells or you know Jack Nicholas I don't know a few years ago Jack was telling me he could literally I was four or five years ago couldn't play golf couldn't play tennis told us the rest you know there's just that's how he has to adjust his life and he you know he did stem cells and he's perfect molon plays tennis plays golf has a great time so people just need to know that this is really possible and and you know the FDA to their credit they're working

hard in evaluating things and moving I mean stem cells have been involved in so many Studies now as Dr VJ knows there's zero question in terms of their value but it's been the Wild West in the US people get out and promote things and say things that are totally insane uh and there were like one or two cases and that's all it takes and the media goes crazy as they probably should to try to warn people but then it all gets thrown out with the baby with the bath water I mean there was somebody who

was doing injections of stem cells and other Things in people's eyes and somebody went blind I mean it's insane that's not something you do in a trillion years um so you have to find the right sources and that's one of the reasons that we co-founded you know Fountain life with Dr Bob perer because one of the greatest experts in the field who really found some of the initial breakthroughs that really under made us understand what stem cells are and how they work but it's still really unique and I still uh You know some of the

best places to go if someone's listening really is like a group like RMI it's called down in Costa Rica some of the most sophisticated and the best but I went to Panama originally and that's literally all it took I mean it's it's I I have a dear dear friend we own a piece of sports team together I won't mention his name because I want to tease him about it too much but he'll probably hear this and uh I was thinking you got to go do stem cells and he's Like same doctors going to him rotator

cuff issue he's a little bit older than I am and they said no no no it's not going to work I said they told me the same thing look what's happened to me and then you know but he's surrounded by them right you know so he went into the surgery and he's had two surgeries since then he's started over again did another rehab that lasted four and a half months four days from me I mean it's like that's what I saying Dr VJ it sounds Absurd doesn't it sounds impossible but but it happens all the

time I mean Dr David Sinclair as you're familiar with probably Dr VJ he's probably one of the greatest experts in this area and as he said aging is the real disease as you age everything else accelerates everything starts to break down and part of that is stem cell exhaustion and the communication that those stem cells provide that's why exosomes are now a really valuable tool as well when used Properly well and you actually point to like one of the key things that we think about Innovation being innovation in science or maybe the drug but Innovation

the regulatory side could be perhaps the most impactful way that we could help patients yes and what do you think the Innovations on the regulatory side are VJ like you know in terms of uh you know the current process and where it could go yeah I think the the challenge is like To put your feet and and their shoes it's actually a really hard thing to do because you're you're you're the last line of things but Parvin might be sort of reframing how you think about things and we saw this sort of in the Arc

of how regulation came to be that we had this lamide crisis which was this horrific thing that you know kids were being born malformed and so the FDA gets created um ironically nothing that the FDA doesn't would have helped the fimi Crisis because you don't test on pregnant women and so on but you know there's a lot of other things that perhaps did really help patients but then perhaps the pendulum swung too far and then you get to the HIV crisis where people are dying of AIDS and they're just trying to get drugs and their

options are die now or die later or try the drug and maybe survive and actually the pendulum went the other way to realize that there was an opportunity For really um helping patients by getting them the drug and I think that's part of is the realization that some of these are questions of science but some of these are questions of policy like what how do we want to think about things and that's that's a different type of problem that's a policy problem not a science problem yeah and actually one of the things Tony talks about

in the book is the process is uh safety first and then Efficacy and then efficacy at scale and how do you think about that VJ like is that necessary for the FDA to show efficacy or is there a more efficient way yeah so you bring up a great Point here because yeah so testing for toxicity that's clearly important and and that's established but actually the thing that a lot of people forget is that after the FDA insurance companies will also determine whether the drug is really worth it that's their business And there's a real Marketplace

for that and if it's if it's improved uh then they they'll pay for it and so since that's happening anyways it's interesting to think about really harnessing that especially since there's things that some people might think are crazy like if you had a drug that was as good as the best drug but cheaper that still can't get um that won't go by the FDA because they actually has to be better than the last drug even if it's Not better scientifically but it's better in other ways and so you know if you leave that to the

payers the payers are like hell yeah I would love to have a drug that's 10 times cheaper that would be something where we could get it to more patients we could do so much more with it um those are things that really you only think about when you're think about from a market perspective not and and from the fact that they're really the customers using this and I Think that change of framing could actually have a huge impact on on how patients get drugs there's also companies like in silico that you know are using Ai

and trying to reinvent basically how drugs come to the market in the tempo where what took 5,000 people they can do with 50 and you know kind of like uh invido what it's done in its ability to forecast you know how they build a chip doing that and actually being able to predict what Would happen in a study and so forth and they're very excited about what they think they can do in this area and they're not the only one they're just one of the one of the leaders in the field right now so the

ability to get the right drugs to the right people Precision medicine also right Rejuvenation yes but it's Precision what does your body need what's the right amounts and you know with some of the information that we have from the human Genome now some of that is actually starting to become usable for us it's been such a mass amount of information now the specificity is starting to come about and then you things like crisper that can enter in to actually start editing it all so we're we're you you're living we're all living I know in challenging

times but you're actually living in the best time to be alive we actually have the least amount of violence in the world if you measure it That's ever been no one would know that if you watch your television because you know listen the media is good people their job though is to make money for their shareholders and we all are wired with a negative bias so they know if it bleeds it leads and so now anything in the world looks horrible we get to hear about it and we're also just also in a season that

happens of every 20 years so the season changes and people are much more fearful but in spite of all that The opportunities that are going to happen in the next 12 to 13 years for people who take care of themselves are beyond the their wildest imagination because we're at the base of that explosive geometric curve right now and it's pretty darn exciting yeah Mark actually uh you know you just wrote the Techno Optimus Manifesto where you talk about the possibility for a brighter future and you know kind of against the like Super pessimistic attitude how

how do you think about the future and what the next 10 15 years will be like well look I I mean look I agree with Tony I mean like if you look at the substance of what's Happening there's a lot to be optimistic about I mean look I will say though there are a lot of forces at play in the world that want to keep these things from happening and there's a lot of a lot of repression that's taking place there's a lot of um you know People trying to prevent change um and so you

know there is a pretty active campaign in the other direction um and you know that that campaign has taken hold of a lot of universities a lot of government agencies um you know a lot of the a lot of the power structure the people who get to decide whether things are legal um the Press you know Tony Tony mentioned and so um yeah I mean like you know the future is what we make it right it's it's it's not inevitable Like it has to be it has to be will into being and people have to

decide what they want actually that gets to um an interesting kind of change that's happened in science over the last you know kind of the way science works over the last 50 years has really changed in universities and we have the replication crisis and in various things and one of the things you know kind of as a student of Tony that I've noticed is you know he's sort of a scientist from the Previous era from the kind of Einstein Heisenberg you know that era where it's a lot of I'm gonna do this experiment on myself

and then I'm gonna try it in reality and you know kind of a very pragmatic way of going about things as opposed to the goal being published ing a paper or you know winning a prize or getting tenure and so forth so Mark maybe you could talk about like how science has changed in the current crisis we have in science yeah look I Mean there's you know this is a very very deep topic we could spend a lot a lot of time on I mean look you know like science emerged you know 500 years ago

out of out of uh out of actually originally out of religion studying the universe you know to glory god and then over time it you know became sort of intertwined with the Enlightenment and and rationalism and the scientific methods started to uh to get developed but you know really if if you trace Scientific innovation discoveries you know from you know around 500 years ago to basically around World War II um you know it was a it was a very elite um you know activity it was it was you know it was a lot of people

experimenting on themselves um you know you know it's like the archetypal you know scientist in the 1700s was Ben Franklin you know where it was like Ben Franklin himself out in the rainstorm with a kite right trying to trying to figure out lightning Um and you know Thomas Jefferson considered himself a scientist you know kind of in a spare time and so forth and and you know Einstein was famously a patent patent clerk right you know he wasn't a professor anywhere at the time he he figured out relativity um and then basically after World War

II science became institutionalized and you know good news bad news we built up these massive you know research universities this Federal Funding uh for Science and you know certainly we got some you know big waves of of science technology out of that we got you know we got nuclear power we got you know the computer chip um you know we got the internet and so forth so you know we we got certain expect of Biotech out of that uh but you know over the last 30 years I mean I I think you just kind of

see in plain sight with the replication crisis that institutional science you know seems broken at some Fundamental level like a very large percentage of the studies in the last 50 years don't replicate they're they're basically fake results um and so now we have we have this sort of institutional process you know we saw it play out during covid in in a not very successful way you know we're we're seeing you know kind of universities you know kind of torturing themselves in plain sight you know kind of these days um and so you know there there

there is this sense of Like in a lot of fields uh you know a much higher level of stagnation a much lower level of breakthrough uh than I think that we would expect given all the money that's being poured into the system and I think you know more people are are starting to ask the question you know is this actually the system that's going to generate uh scientific results in the future I can tell you in my own world it is true I start with me and then a small number of people around me And

then I start to scale it once I see it works you're absolutely right about that I recently about three years ago in the middle of covid uh some doctors some stand approach me because uh they had two of their doctors go to one of my six day programs I do called Date With Destiny and they were both clinically depressed and came back with no depression symptoms and friends and doctors around them like this is impossible this couldn't possibly be and And they got off all their drugs so anyway they called me and said you know

what data do you have you know typical situation and I said well I said I've got millions of testimonials like hundred thousands of people have been through these various forms of programs I can give you no no no like like the data I said well I'm not a scientist and most people I'm interested in working with they're interested in results if they see results they're happy they I Have money back guaranteed for what I do right it's pretty simple and they said well would you be willing to do a study on depression because during covid

as you know depression went through the roof it still is um suicides went through the roof overdoses went through the roof and I said I I love that that's an area that we're extremely effective in and they said well uh I asked him what will you measure against you know because I had no idea what are the Metast studies show around depression and I couldn't believe it 60% of the people that go in according to meta studies for treatment of depression with drugs Andor therapy or both 60% makes zero Improvement 40% improve and The Meta

study show on average they improve 50% which means they're half as depressed as they were now some people do get well but it's a very small percentage of the people and I'm sure you saw the ssris in the cover of Newsweek last year they don't work and yet we still sell them for some reason um and so the bottom line is I said well you can almost get that result with a placebo they said yeah I said I I think we all Crush that but you do the study I said but what's the best study

well you know that's your meta study what's the most effective thing you've ever seen and they said it was a study done at John's Hopkins about four and a half years ago where they take people for a Month who were clinically depressed and they for a month gave them psilocybin right so magic mushrooms and cognitive therapy for a month I said well out of that you should have got some kind of change in their you know they said it was amazing it was the greatest result they've ever measured in the history of Psychiatry 50 4%

of the people 6 weeks after the treatment had no symptoms of depression whatsoever I said okay well our Target is to do better than that but You're in charge why don't you model that same study use the same contrasting group is what they did the results were so amazing that they sent out blind the the stats to do different organizations because they're afraid they're going to get canceled 100% of the people that they put through this program after six weeks had zero expressions of depression better than that 177% of them had suici suicidal ideation not

a single one had suicidal ideation afterwards they Followed up 11 months later they're going to do 12 but they did 11 months because people were getting back from covid and they had all the stats on you know how people loneliness and all the things that are happening at home anyway 71% decrease in negative emotions 11 months later 52% increase in positive emotions loneliness through the floor the transformation is amazing it was written up in scientific journals just as you described right in the Journal of Psychiatry I thought boy people really be for us now not

a single phone call no one's interested and they're still selling the drugs that don't work so part of it is institutionalization of the system we're actually doing a study right now Stanford want to do another one they're doing the largest behavioral study they've ever done 750 people not one month three months full year it's just finishing this month as last December it began and it's on quiet Quitting and Loud quitting and engagement as you guys know when it comes to business engagement equals iida you the highest levels of Engagement highest levels iida and for your

audience you know we look at they measure things as engaged disengaged and actively disengaged active disengage of the people that still work for you but are trying to harm your company and hate you and uh what's crazy is that's the sing in those four years of covid the Largest droping engagement in the history of of their records the largest increase in actively disengaged the loud quitting people and uh the study they did with us I can only tell you what it was at six months they're going to announce it and publish it shortly at the

12- month mark but we quadrupled the engagement took what four years got rid of in six days did they sustain it I never saw them again and at the six-month Mark which is the last Measurement I got to see had it increased another 50% beyond what it had because they had a shift in their psychology and their mindset you know I know you uh I think it I think it's you Ben maybe it was you Mark I can't remember but I get you guys mixed up in your quotes sometimes because I've read so many but

I think one time I read you said the hardest part of being a CEO is really my own mindset you know your ability to get yourself to go through That's what I found I got 111 companies to push through the difficult times anybody can do Well when things are going your way or finding the right players that's not hard um I think you also talked about then dealing with those players and they feel entitled as well but the psychology change is everything and it's true for everyone so that's my obsession and we really want to

make a difference because we're living in a world where most CEOs don't Know what the hell to do I was at a fortune 400 conference and with Mark Ben a good friend of mine and they invited me in and um they were doing these interviews and they were asking people there how many of you have people working you know 5 days a week and uh and at the time less than this is six months ago less than 20% of the people raised their hand and these are Fortune you know 400 companies and it's say 500

companies I just I can't Even believe it how many wish everybody was here five days a week 95% of them raised their hand right so I know there are jobs where you can be hybrid you know or be gone all the time certainly software things of that nature but we're dealing with issues that we've never dealt before in the history of business and obviously it's affecting Office Buildings and and local restaurants and everything else but helping people become more engaged to me is the only Way they're going to be fulfilled because I'm sure you've read

people are the most unhappy in their work that they've measured in 20 years even pre you know covid and they thought well they don't want to go back to work because you know I shouldn't have to do that I'm like being home now and now when they're home they feel isolated you know right right think is if I have it easier I'm going to be happier and you both know all three of you know you Wouldn't be who you are you know that the effort is the reward that being able to push those things is

what shapes you it's what makes you proud of who you are as a human this idea of self-esteem that's so overused with children it makes me crazy you don't get self-esteem because someone tells you you're good and you don't lose it because people tell you you're worthless someone tell you you're worthless your whole life and you go read between the lines I'm going To show you who I am or someone tell you you're beautiful your whole life and you don't believe it right what makes you have esteem for yourself is doing difficult things and our

society unfortunately is not reminding people that we're here to give something we're not just here to get and most of our society is measuring what to get and that's making people so unhappy they don't understand that there's you'll never be happy when you don't have a Meaning in your life more than yourself and when a focus is just on your own sense of comfort yeah I me anybody can meet Comfort needs pretty easily yeah well and that gets into well I have a couple so many questions one the first is you know it's funny you

said you're not a scientist but I think by Mark's definition of of original scientists you're absolutely a scientist and it seems like really unfortunate in the current system that here you are with These amazing results which should be what we're teaching uh undergraduate psychology students and so forth it should be what the you know average person when they go to see a psychiatrist gets and instead we're getting sris that don't work and you ever think about um and and you have your own lane and you get it to the people through your seminars and so

forth but you know do you ever think about like is there a way to to merge Those channels or or to kind of um you know overcome this just like weirdness where we have one method that you've invented that gets amazing results we have this whole other school of thought um based on psychologists that were wrong about a lot you know like the in the history of psychology you know some of the heroes were just wrong like Freud was wrong about a tremendous amount of things uh I guess how do how do you think about

That because you know you have such a big mission to kind of improve people's lives I want to reach as many people as I can so truthfully these journals and people of that nature don't reach a lot of people I mean yeah my seminars thanks to covid you know when everything got shut down I was used to doing stadiums so if you can imagine I get a call from the governor of California who I don't share necessarily values with 100% but I'm friendly with and he says um sorry To let you know uh the stadium

that you had there for 15,000 people you can only put 100 people in there and I like what so I was like screw this we're we'll go to Vegas they'll never shut down Vegas we moved all the people to Vegas yeah five days before they shut down Vegas I we're going to Texas I know the governor there he's never going to bend same thing about a week out he bends I'll do movie theaters we'll do a movie theaters only 10 people each that's what they'll Allow you to do they'll L be you know 1,200 movie

theaters they'll go locally they'll have a big screen great so I finally just they cut that out so I finally built a studio and now we do our Live Events with 15,000 people but we do hybrid events also and I started doing events then where all of a sudden my 15,000 person event was done in people's homes I built 20 foot high LED screens about a 25,000 foot Place built it all around me brought in made some new Software technology so people could shake their phone instead of Cl in you know it's got electric signal

if one claps you don't hear it when 20,000 people clap it's like thunder you know I I went to you know to our friends over there at zoom and got them to expand the volume from a thousand people to 25,000 and all of a sudden we started growing so now I've the large last large seminar I did last year was 1.8 million people for six days so it's like just go around It the other way is I think by hitting businesses and I've always said I want to talk to whoever general public I'll build it

they'll come but I'm going to start directing businesses now because now that I have this way to to do things asynchron and synchronal but anywhere in the world uh I think it's a new way to do this and that's why I supported this study because I think we can start to affect people's psychology emotion and health by hitting the bottom line and That'll bring those resources to people and companies so I think that's another Avenue that we're g to we're not think we're now we're going for to have an impact we think about what Tony

does actually maybe you're not a scientist you might be way more impactful than that maybe you're like a psychological engineer you know because you're you're like you're you're really wanting to solve a problem not just like study something write it up and then move on You know and like an engineer will iterate will study will be empirical we learn from Theory and learn from all the other stuff but we really actually care about working and whether it works or not is I think the only thing you really care about right you don't care about Awards

or and and what I care about is people I'm not the only one I mean that's like there I'm not saying I got all the answers the way I wrote my financial books the R I wrote this book This book you know 150 of the best regenerative scientists in the world Nobel laurates the best doctors in the world that's who I go to to get the answers and then now I know them oh you're so smart I'm not smart they're smart I'm just smart enough to go to them same thing in the financial area you

know Ray do Carl icon you know Paul tutor Jones these all guys that became my friends over the years because I went and took what they did and made it Simple enough that the general popul ation can use it my billionaire clients found it valuable but so did you know the average person getting started so to me it's a modeling process and an iteration process modeling what already works and then figureing out how to go to a different level but I don't have to reinvent the wheel but I have been doing what I've been doing

now this will be my 47th year coming up you can clearly see I started at three of course And but uh you know if at this point I could be an idiot I'd have to see there are patterns right that's what makes all of us good at what we do it's pattern recognition pattern utilization and then if you're good enough pattern creation maybe you play someone else's music initially you learn the patterns you learn how to use them but eventually you can build on top of the shoulders of the people that you've learned from and

I think that's what we all want to be but Also that's what we want our children to be from us right to have a choice to have choices we never had before and I think that's threatened a little bit by some of the psychology that's currently in the culture but I'm not worried because history is you know I always think of history in Cycles right it's like Good Times creates weak people you always see it you see it Roman history Greek history Good Times weak people weak people bad times bad times create Strong people strong

people create great times think of a great generation born in 1910 and they come of age you know at 19 years old in 1929 and it's like they thought they're going to party like everybody else they were generation was looked down on like Millennials were by older Generations or Z generation is now they were looked down on they didn't they got everything so easily they didn't go through World War I they didn't have to fight they had Radio on television and all of a sudden boom depression it toughened them up they had to change to

survive and then oh by the way by the time they heard 29 it's 1939 it's World War II and they go to war that looks like look like we're going to lose the Hitler was going to win those people came back strong and every every every single you know generation is tested the question are you tested in the early years the middle Years the later years or The Late Late years of your life because if you study history you patterns are consistent so I I study history I study patterns and humans have so many patterns

you're not angry all the time you don't know very good all the time you don't do anything all the time there's certain patterns that make you that way and you are not your pattern and that's why I'm able to help people to change they don't have to change themselves this change the Habit They've been calling themselves that's really getting in the way definitely you you know you hit on um a thing uh that I want to ask Mark about so you know Tony kind of mentioned uh you know things in the culture that are degenerative

in particular you know we've got this big wave of everything from uh the what's good for the people is for them to not work so many hours or you know it's better to be uh you know a victim than You know an aggressor and this and that and the other and they're all kind of extremely destructive things for personal psychology and like how do you you know how do you look at kind of the waves of these political movements um and you know what's what's happening now you know when has it happened historically how do

we get out of it yeah it's actually something it's actually something that you you go back to n talked about this like 140 years Ago now basically it's it's it's claims to speak on behalf of the oppressed um are how a um sort of the the our sort of modern ruling class like stays in power um and so you know if if you want to run for office right like you know what's the message that you tell people do you you you know do you tell people you know you can take responsibility for your own

lives and you can achieve great things or do you tell people you're a victim um and you know anything bad that's Happening to you is not your fault and it doesn't matter what you do you'll never be able to succeed and the system is rigged against you and the system is oppressive and you know people of other you know colors and ethnicities hate you right and are trying to keep you down um and I often use the term demoralization campaign right like you you you basically to like you know basically win office you basically sell

a demoralization story and then of course You you promis that of course as the leader you're going to help these poor oppressed people kind of overcome that and then that you know that's that's the part that never quite happens because a magic trick yeah well because if that happens then you you can't then you can't run for re-election on on the same story right uh you can't you know this is the problem and this is also the problem with like every nonprofit right that this is like the problem you know Homeless you know we spend

like what is it we spend you know like a billion plus dollars to these uh you know quote unquote homelessness nonprofits in San Francisco every year and it homelessness keeps getting worse right and it's like well of course it does it's because like how if you're homelessness nonprofit do you make money by actually solving homelessness or having be there be more of it right you make money by having there there be more of it you you you Feed the problem um and so that that you know we're we're just we're in this cult it's really

intensified in the last decade like we're in this culture in which you know the the sort of prevailing message from the from the sort of most most important Elites is you know you're a victim um and and they're going to keep selling that story for as long as people keep buying it and then I think you know over time I think more and more people are going to figure Out that that that they're being sold to bad story and that that that that leads nowhere good and that that's there there's no way to live life

you know is by thinking that you're oppressed the whole time um and you know the right thing to do is to say oh actually I you know I live in a like free and prosperous society and I can I can improve myself and I can take control of my destiny and I can do great things until then you're until then you're Trapped when people come to my seminars because of what you described I say I just want to warn you in advance this is not a safe space and there'll be no warnings like if you

if you're looking for a safe space and your definition is everyone's going to tell you what you already believe then you wasted your time to come here because this is all about questioning all of our beliefs and and testing it and seeing how does it really work in the real world and in That way it's really the safest space of all because the truth will set you free but most people don't care about the truth anymore they just care about reinforcing what they already believe and as you said whatever is reinforced continues but the pattern

is so extreme now it's like you know silence is violence uh you know words are violence you know I think I heard Chris Rock say If you think words are violence no one SLA the out of you on National Television violence is violence right you know and those same people now are chanting death to very to people in Israel I mean it's just that's just crazy I'm like I I hate what's happening both sides of the Middle East when innocent people are injured I don't care what their background is it's horrific but to say you

know words of violence and you're going to eliminate somebody from the staff for doing it but you're not going to stand up and say no Beheading of children and raping of women is totally okay it's not okay on any side of of any whether it be in Gaza or be Israel or anywhere else and none of it is okay but it's crazy where our world has entered but again the pendulum I I agree with you Mark I think the pendulum is thrown so far and there's a point now where the PE the quiet middle start

finally starting to speak up because it's affecting the quality of their life on a massive scale but when You vote people in office and they know they can give you whatever you want and they're willing to do it to and just print money that's why we end up in the position we are right now with inflation yeah you know Tony on the uh on the uh kind of Israel Palestine issue you had a crazy story in the book about a seminar you were doing on uh right when 911 happened um where you had a uh

one of the members of the audience was from Pakistan and then the other was a Jewish Member and it sounded like they were ready to kill each other right there like at the seminar and then uh you know you work through it maybe I would love to kind of hear that story and how you think about it in today's context it was it was 911 I was in Hawaii we had we doing at the time a 10day seminar where I basically kill people you take them 12 14 hours a day for 12 straight days and

nights and and you know I bring in some really Brilliant brilliant teachers I had storman Norman General Norman uh come in and teach leadership a variety of people but what happened during 911 was you know I just finished in evening at midnight 1 in the morning morning and we were in Hawaii so around 3:00 in the morning banging on my door letting me know hey turn on the television and so I did and saw what everybody saw on CNN and first first building hit and I thought this is horrible and everybody Didn't know it was

terrorism when the second one happened all hell was breaking loose in the building because the entire Hotel was made up of thousands of people from all over the world we were translating I think eight languages simultaneously we had every religion there so there were people that were fighting in the halls there were people crying uncontrollably knew this was was the end times everybody responded to it based on what I call Their emotional home we have an emotional home a place we go back to whether it's good or bad if you're used to negative feelings sadness

and feeling sorry for yourself you'll go there if you're an angry person you'll go there if you're a person that looks out to support others you're going to be in a supportive role and that's all that happened everybody played the roles they play they went to their emotional homes but was brutal no one's wanted to come To classes and get everybody in class we brought them all together and I said listen by now I'm sure most of you know you know this has occurred we can't get off the island here you know the all the

flights were canceled so we got to do what we can do so let's do a blood drive and then let's process this together and I ask people three questions because these are the three decisions people make every moment their life first you decide what to focus on we don't Experience life we experience a life we focus on and what's wrong is always available so is what's right so 3,000 people died it was horrific I wouldn't play that any smaller than what it was but 4,000 people die every day of hard disease and cancer and no

one says a word their mothers fathers Brothers if there were in airplanes falling out of the sky everybody right Dr VJ would be going crazy but we're just immune to it so whatever we focus on we feel and so The decision is what to focus on whether you can control it or not whether it's the past present or the future whether it's what's missing from your life or what you have controls the quality of your life so I I said I put you in groups I want you to tell me what did you focus on

when you heard it what did it mean to you is at the end the beginning what and what are you going to do and then I walked around the room and got the education of a lifetime because You know I watched this woman got this really thick accent and she was talking so angrily spit was coming out of her mouth to the people in her group and I made sure the groups had men and women and they were from different countries and so I I peered in I said ma'am can I ask you a question

I said are you from uh United States she said no said do you have you visited New York ever she said no I said do you have family here she said no I said well why are you so angry And she goes cuz I just do just get so angry about these things I said well I'm just curious how often do you get angry she goes what do you mean how often do I get angry I get real lot why I said well once a week once a month daily and a long story short it

came down to she sees anger as fuel she does it all the time I went to another group just to give you a quick example and a woman's crying uncontrollably and she's talking about how guilty she feels because she's A nurse she's from New Jersey and she should be there and she can't get off the island and people are dying and she's not able to help and I felt her emotion and then same thing I I stopped her and I said you know can I ask you a question how often do you feel guilty so

what do you mean I said once a month feels guilty all the time so people went to their place but when I went to do the shares one woman got up and shared the fact that after we Finished at midnight she went back to her room and she was planning on separating from her boyfriend and left in bad bad situation but what I said that night she decided to call him say I love him and that she was wanted me marry him and turns out he was at the top of the World Trade Center and

sure enough he got she got left a message from him she was asleep and she played it for us talking about how much he loves her and how much it means such a World to him that what she said and he doesn't how to tell her this but he's not going to get out of the building it's on fire and she's wondering probably why this happened because her previous boyfriend was murdered and he said all I can tell you is God should maybe this is the lesson to tell you don't ever wait to to love

again and so everybody's crying next guy stands up the end of the story he says my name is so and so I'm from Pakistan I'm a Muslim I'd love to say I could hold your hand and feel sorry for you but this is retribution it was like the entire building turned into a war zone because you know another man stood up who was you know had lost I guess 12 of his friends that day at the top of the center there and one of the financial institutions and his family lived in the occupied territories Jewish

man and they started going at it and I brought him on stage and we did this integration Process that it's all on film anybody can see it we've posted it um because you took these two guys that wanted to kill each other and at the end they formed a group that actually went around with Jews and Gentiles Christians and Muslims all together and started preaching in different churches and mosque and so forth peace and the young man wrote a book called my Jihad where he talked about he was trained in a camp his dad sent

him to Berkeley so he Wouldn't do it he told people that morning his only wish was he wish he was on one of those planes and then he realized the Jihad was with himself and now he's transformed himself so there's ways to shift people no matter what how does that relate to today I mean there's so much pain that you you have to do it families at a time organizations at a time first got to feed people provide electricity and save some lives and then we're going to have to deal with a Psychology what's happening

there on both sides this there are no simple answers in this case but people can completely change their beliefs no matter how embedded they are if you find the right Leverage and if you can get them to see that it's really everything I blame you for even if you've done something to me my experience is mine alone everybody has their own 100% responsibility for what they feel now somebody tries to kill you obviously You're going to feel a certain way but being able to shift your psychology so you can have a healthy life everyone's capable

of doing it's not easy but it's doable and it's certainly hard with a group of people but I mean I've been doing that with tens of thousands of people millions of people for decades and I'm not the only one um one of the you know kind of things that you get into in the book which kind of merges uh your work and kind of the work of uh of Kind of all the scientists that you've you've assembled and and so forth is this kind of idea of uh you know the the mind's connection to your

health and things like psychon neuroimmunology and and like how that works um and I'd love uh kind of for you you to talk about that a little and VJ for you to kind of chime in on you know like what you know how powerful is this uh you know if I get sick can I just fix myself and how does that work uh would be I think Really interesting for everyone well I look at it you got to do both I look you got to do the physical side and the mind side the mind has

much more power than we give it credit for and I know Dr VJ I'm sure have done homework on it but you can take any result you get with virtually any drug and at least 25% of the time the placebo will do the same result in almost every study I've read um in some cases as much of 40 or 50% uh but there's no money made in placebos You know and placebos can even work when you know it's a placebo that's what's crazy about it the interesting about placebos is people think well it's just a

sugar pill and then you convince the mind and then somehow the body takes over but you know harv in studies where they actually give people uh you know uh barbituate which slowing the body down and Els and amphetamine give them a big red pill the size of the pill makes a difference by the way the bigger the Pill the more profound the impact if you give an injection even more so if you do fake surgery even more so more convincing to the brain and produces a result but imagine we G A barbituate your whole body

has to slow down your brain believes it's an amphetamine and their biochemistry speeds up and they do vice versa I mean uh the most invasive would be there was a study done by the VA and it was on arthoscopic surgeries and what they did was they took a group This and then as a result is they changed all the policies the VA around this and they gave them fake surgeries what they did is put them under just like the other group nobody who they were put a cut open the knee just to cut the flap

sewed it back did nothing to the knee the other group they did arthoscopic surgery and what they found is after six months the group that had no nothing done to them improved more than the group with the surgery and After doing the several follow-ups that that they no longer fund it so it's literally that powerful and it was not just self-reporting was also The Mending of it as well so what our brains can do is amazing you know Ellen Langer from Harvard is a friend of mine she's the one who did those uh reverse studies

where she took people in their late 70s to this place in the Ander Onex for three weeks and they put nothing but newspapers pictures everything from 35 Years earlier and they literally lived it they were all talking in the first person they had a television set that had things from that time in black and white and in two weeks the transformation of these people the pictures alone would blow your mind but their blood pressure went down their immune systems became stronger I mean the the changes their resting heart rate changed I mean these are changes

that just physically shouldn't be any way but The mind has that kind of power it also has the opposite power I remember Norman Cousins when he was alive I had a privilege of spending time with him he came to one of my firewalks because he was so fascinated by what the mind could do in that area and um and he was telling me the study about said he was at this game that was in LA and was written up about he wrote up about it later and there was this person who started projectile vomiting and

it was Right there in the midst of a large number of people and they ran off and when they came back they were trying to figure out what it was what caused this and so sure enough they thought maybe he it was the soda pop he drank so the announcer said if you drank any of that Sodapop please stop you know I'm talking about Coca-Cola whatever it was out of that machine and people started projectile vomiting all over the stadium literally they had 12 ambulances come There and take people away and then about an hour

later they figured out it wasn't the soda pop and everything cleaned up and resided so we not only can heal ourselves we can make ourselves sick and you know our our concept of aging and what age means is so rooted I I used to have this gentleman who's now passed away when I was in my late early 30s I'd bring them to my events and I would have people close their eyes during one of these health events and Before I began just to talk about the power of the mind I said I want you to

close your eyes and imagine a 75y old man okay what you think of 75y old man would look like get a good picture good sense and I have my friend walk out on stage and when they open their eyes I said is this the man you pictured and he's you know he was bench pressing 450 pounds and he was just chiseled and incredible at 75 years old right and one of my dear friends this is years ago one Of my dear friends I've known for almost 35 40 years the other day just turned 70 and

he said he was walking by the mirror and he goes he looked in the mirror and he's fit is fiddle is unbelievable right and he goes you know I owe that to you he goes that stuck in my head because the image I had was a broken down old person but from that day on I had an image of what I'm actually like right now today so yes I would never just say only the mind I go for the biochemistry I go for the shift that you're going to make in the body but if you

leave out the mind you're an idiot they're so combined you can do all the right things biochemically in your mind can overcome them yeah this is one of the areas I think is super fascinating I think a lot of times people reframe things the wrong way that we think of the null hypothesis as the placebo instead of no drug and like I think finally we're starting to understand actually how it works because If the placebo effect is so strong be great to understand it be great to harness it and it be great to take advantage

of it um because of hopefully a lack of negative side effects and I think that's what we're starting to see in that that field of uh uh Psych neur um immunology and it is just fascinating even from the molecular point of view like the same proteins gpcrs that are in our brains are in our gut and the mind gut interface is is is very complicated And very interesting and we're just starting to sort of poke away at it um and you know I think part of what the problem here that for everything we've been talking

about for trying to improve healthc care is that we've got the Innovations on the science side we've got to deliver it to people and I think what we're starting to see is more value-based care more ways that people care about the outcome rather than just providing a service and if you care About the outcome you'll incorporate whatever works and we're just at the beginning of that but I think people will really start looking to these areas when they're really incented for Solutions yeah and VJ maybe you could expand on that from like a Health Care

System what does that mean like how does a Health Care system work today and drive the incentives and then then where do we want to get to in order to be come yeah yeah the healthc care system Right now is a fee for service kind of like a plumber so a plumber will come over your house and they'll fix something do they care about your house do they you know will they be thinking ahead for what your house needs that's not their job like that's your job right and so right now we have to be

sort of the general contractor of our body and we have to bring in the plumber and the electrician or whatever to take care of that what would be better is somebody Who is financially incented for our outcome for incented to keep us healthy and we're starting to see that right now where one of the Innovative areas are companies that are both payers and providers so right now an insurance company can largely just say know uh or or pay but if the insurance company is also the one providing they want to keep you healthy because healthier

people cost less and of course now we finally have the incentives aligned and I think That was what was mistaken like our incentives are misaligned will have all this crazy stuff but when we all want the same thing which is for us to be healthy uh then actually people will do creative things to be able to align that and I I think what Tony was talking about um just recently but also earlier for like different ways of thinking about mental health and all these things if you know you're just providing Services you may even want

to be a Therapist as an annuity you know the therapist is there for a long time curing someone quickly may not be what you're financially incentive for and so we we need to really flip all of that and I know Tony you spoken to that uh so we we need if we can flip the incentives I think then we can finally get the out we want and then um you know Tony mentioned something earlier that I wanted to come back to which is kind of drug development is very different now Um with AI and uh

kind of and then our understanding of the human body through kind of a different data set than we've had historically um how do VJ maybe you could talk about that and how does it uh kind of change the way that we want to think about every from you know development to regulation to like when things are safe and so forth you know this is something that I think many of us have been waiting for For for a decade or two because we see that biology is really complicated I mean of that there's no doubt we

don't even know all the actors we don't know all that's going on and so a very top- down approach is probably going to fail but what um AI I think has in common with what we're talking about with Tony's approach is that AI is very empirical it's like give me the data let me come up with the best thing I can come up with let's try it and then we'll Re we'll iterate that and do better and better and in a sense it's basically just the best way to mathematical way to handle the data and

iterate and improve and that's what Active Learning is and so on so that's actually perfectly coinciding with this revolution in biology and Medicine where we can now measure things we can do tons of biological experiments we have tons of wearables uh tons of measurements and so data plus AI means plus iterations means We can can finally make advances and I think that has to then be coupled with a sort of u a regulatory system that would understand that there are these advances and try to help accelerate them because if we don't get those iterations we

won't we'll be stuck and sometimes it may take like five 10 tries or something and but we want to do it safely but we want to encourage Innovation and that tension is is I think still being worked out right now I think the good news is When you talk to people in the Regulatory Agencies I think they they want to help people they want Innovation they don't want to stifle Innovation so now the question is how can we work together to really promote that well on the incentive thing there though if you work at the

FDA for example it would seem that if you let a drug through that's dangerous that's very bad that is very bad but if you approve a drug that's good that's like maybe nobody Cares yeah that's the problem the as that asymmetry there is for sure there and like I think we have to reframe it almost like the classic TR trolley problem where if you don't let the drug through we're actually killing people right now by not getting these advances through and and how I think human beings aren't very good at sort of holding that in

their head very bad at it yeah it's why we uh yeah it's it's why we take off our shoes After 911 or or like the self-driving cars right like self-driving cars now in many cases could be safer than human drivers but you make uh if but they won't be perfect but people I think can't ra reason that actually you're killing people by having humans Drive once self once cars or self-driving cars are more uh safe and uh I guess Tony in the that you're doing on health how how do you think about um kind of

how to move these Incentives uh so that you know all this great work can actually take effect because it it does feel like um the amount of innovation that's about to happen is going to completely overwhelm the current way of doing things you know particularly with incentives to to kind of stop progress I think AI is providing the ability to do things faster quicker and more accurately so take two of the biggest diseases that you know kill people heart disease and cancer uh AI Has made a giant change in that just in the last year

year and a half I was one of the first people to get one of the coolly CCTA scans uh my partners at Fountain life called me up and said Tony this is the greatest breakthrough in cardiology we've seen in 20 years and what it does is you know you try to read one of these scans of what's happening in your body it's it's pretty hard to be able to read even if you're a great doctor and these scans literally go in And create a three-dimensional description of what's going on in your body and can track

okay these are calcified versus soft I mean the soft ones can break off right and literally they'll give you the the Widow effect they're going to give you a heart attack or a stroke housei your body has actually healed itself and there's been no real way to clearly um you know see that before these AIS and the level of detail is mind-boggling with precision And I I remember I went and I had my 80-year-old father father-in-law come with me and man I really love dearly I mean he's a self-made guy he was in the lumber

business he strong as an ox still yeah you started turning 80 and everybody starts saying well you should you know start prepare for the inevitable end and so forth and I could see the psychology dropping him so I said hey Pops I said I'm going to go do this test you know we're just you know Going to the center here it's it's a little 30 minutes away I said why don't you come with me and we'll do it together I said I'm sure we both have some plaques but it'll show us what it is and

then it'll show us what to do and it's exactly precise to our bodies like nothing you've ever seen and he said okay we'll go so we go we we do the test and you know to give you a contrast of one of our friends had a calcium test of a Thousand he couldn't get life insurance it was over I've never seen an insurance company to do this before but with our work we went to them and they reversed themselves because when we showed his thousand was all calcified his his body was completely healthy there was

no risk whatsoever and they actually gave him the life insurance which blew me away I never think insurance company would do that but that's how accurate it is now it's it's indisputable anyway the Lend Of the story is my father-in-law he's clean as a whis right I got a few things but he's clean as a whistle he walks out that place and then you know we had this we have this Hydro dissection which is you know if you have certain problems in your body when your tissue or nerves are trapped you know they put this

fluid in and it helps to open it up and heal it in seconds literally I had a problem in my ankle for 14 years you know 15 minutes It's never been a problem again it's mindboggling and so you know you had a hip problems so they went and did Hydro dissection he did his test I'll never forget we get on the plane and Mark and Benny sits down from me Dr VJ and he's got this big smile on his face he goes you know Tony people talk about living to be you know over aund and

stuff I don't know about that but you know I'm only 80 you know my heart is solid like a 20year old he goes you know my hips I'm walking perfect he goes I could live another 20 years and as long as you've known my daughter you know he said I think I could do that so the psychological shift's amazing but then then there's cancer right so the AI was part of how Grail came up with their blood test which are probably familiar with not all your audience may be but you know the biggest problem with

cancer is we catch it too late we have a variety of tests a mamogram let's say You know you know colonoscopy and so forth but the ones that get us are the ones we don't measure and the problem is when you know be the Cancer Society studies you say Well if you get stage three or stage four You' got about a 80 to 90% chance of dying I prefer a you know 20 to 10% chance of living that's how they frame it to be fair on the other side if you catch it at stage one

or two it's about a 998 to 100% chance that you're going to be healthy so I had A friend that went in and you know went did our forecast and or did all the scans I should say and did the Grail and did the MRI for his body and his wife was getting him to do it he didn't want to do it sure enough he had you know stage one bladder cancer but guess what caught it immediately yeah 40 minute procedure outpatient he's totally fine and healthy I have another partner only two weeks ago um

who is really he's he's looking to help create this solution in The highest end locations a person who built a multi-billion Dollar Hotel set of hotel chains sold them December of 2019 right before covid brilliantly uh and but now he's a different stage of life and he wants to build these centers where they're not like these little Spas but a place you can have a home or go visit and live but where it's truly The Cutting Edge in medical care and medical screening and Rejuvenation and so I put him through our Center and he was

blown Away and guess what two anisms one about to hit him he went and just you know had the surgery the other day and saved his life so AI is already entering the world because it's so much more effective and it's so much cheaper and it's going to only get faster and cheaper and to me that's the solution besides just Ed educating the general public general public no longer just accepts a medical diagnosis Unfortunately they go on the web and read 8 million horrible things But a lot of people today are saying no I'm going

to educate myself I need to be the CEO of my own health today I need to take these doctors in who are the best and get them to coach me but in the end I've got to make the decision what's right for my own health I have a tumor I was 5-1 in high school I'm now 67 I tell people the difference is personal growth that's a lot of personal growth the truth is I had a tumor uh and in my pituitary gland and it made me grow 10 Inches in a year which is when

people talk about growing pains it's physically stretching your muscles cramping it's incredibly painful but I went through that and then didn't know what it was and then around 30 years old I was I'm a helicopter pilot as well so I'd go in and get my renew my license and this doctor had a suspicion he did a blood test and called me in and told me I needed immediately have surgery you know brain surgery I said what do you mean Brain well you've got a tumor in your pituitary gland how do you know this blood test

I said well you know I didn't come to you with any side effects and long story short I went through he would did not have a good bed side man or he wanted to do surgery no matter what I wanted a second opinion he was irritated so I did several second opinions because the male clinic has found that 74% of the time the second opinion is not the same as the first it's insane they Recommend a second opinion right so I went and got five opinions and one wanted to drug me one wanted to do

surgery one wanted me to go overseas to do these shots in Switzerland only twice a year to be safe and I said but doc I don't have my arteries aren't enlarged all the things I don't have any symptoms he goes well just to be certain turned out that drug and man was a good man by the way um six months later the FDA did not allow it in the US because they Found out had caused cancer so I still have the tumor it infared which means swallowed a good portion of itself up it's still in

my brain it gave me a huge amount of growth hormone which I don't I get you know what basically bodybuilders pay $1,200 a month for I guess and it's naturally flowing through my veins and you know I look at it as a little gift from God gift from the universe type of thing but I I've still measured I haven't had any changes but if I done What anybody else told me and not educated myself to all my options I delen in the P piece in my brain and by the way number one side effect is

loss of energy which to me would be like cutting Samson's hair you know it's like I get up and do 12 hours at a shot you know with the level of intensity most people can't even imagine and you know I'm 64 years old that doing what I'm more than I did when I was 24 so that was not something I was willing to Settle for so I think that's why I wrote the book life force I wanted to give them the best experts on the face of the earth in every area that matters and then

they can dive in as much or as little as they want do the natural things they can naturally do or take on some of the newest breakthroughs in medicine as well yeah one of the things um that you hit on is you know kind of people are nervous to get these new Diagnostics and you know one of the Things that we have so we we have a company in uh in vj's portfolio called cubio which um has built an MRI scanner that can kind of uh basically scan you in 10 minutes instead of an hour

and it's much cheaper and so forth um and then they do a kind of a digital twin type service where uh you know they do comprehensive blood tests and all these kinds of things and you know I was so excited about it you know Mark and I were just like we're gonna buy this for Every employee so that they you know can just do it the hard part is getting them all to go so the ones who have gone you know we've had amazing results you know a couple of people caught things very early and

you know life-saving uh kind of diagnostic um but people are nervous uh you know they don't want to know how did you you know how do you overcome that I I kind of help people in the book with that because I was the Same thing like I don't want to do that it's GNA find something doesn't matter we're gonna over respond to it overreact but the technology is so solid today that to not know is is you're an idiot because if you get to the stage three four it's too late so why not catch it

when it's small and if you got nothing going on it's just like a cool update like it was from my father-in-law where it actually will bring optimism if there's a challenge I want to know it Now but you know same thing business when I was a young man in business I was overwhelmed with two companies you know I got 111 companies now it was like oh don't tell me the you know if someone said there's good news and bad news just tell me the good news right now I always say tell me the bad news

the good news will take care of itself tell me the bad news let's solve it let's move I think you have the same mindset with your own health but what you're doing we we I'd Like to talk to you offline about the company because we have a whole series of centers we find 14% of the people have a life-threatening disease they don't know that they have and we are able to intervene immediately in ways that make a difference but we also find about 68% of the people have something that could massively improve their energy level

in their body which is the basis of health of everything in your body so whether that be hormone support You know I'm not talking about replacement you know I'm talking about optimization you go to your doctor today and if you're a male and your testosterone's 150 they'll say you're fine but most men don't feel like a human if they don't have somewhere between 600 and you know 800 or more depends on the person so you don't have to replace anything but there are certain things that can give you Vitality we got to Remember in you

know couple centuries ago 1800s people lived on average of 30 you know now the worldwide average is you know 72 and you know so it's like the world has changed and you deserve to know the breakthroughs you don't have to use them all if you don't want to but you should know what your options are well and you know we have mental models for this too like you could imagine this could get as standard and unexciting like going to the dentist you they go to A dentist you get your scan like oh man I have

a cavity okay I'm gonna have some procedure you take it out it's not a big deal you know no it's not fun maybe but it's like not life-threatening and you can imagine that might be the future of something like cancer where you get your skin like oh man it's like stage one I have to do some surgery or maybe take this drug by a cop super early it's going to be very straightforward it's not going to kill me it might not be but Actually kind of like not going to the dentist for like a lifetime

could be very unpleasant like not going to this could be more yeah yeah interesting and I and I guess you know the we used to die of all kinds of things that we don't die from now yeah we have we actually have an insurance company now we're doing for businesses that self-insure where our insurance costs the same amount but we do all these tests in advance and the reason we can do it and It's profitable is because we catch it when it's small all the money goes for those later stages is when people are breaking

down when it's too late and so you you change their life you save their life and you save economics as well and I think that'll be I think that's the entry point I think businesses are probably the entry point uh as well as individuals who are going to seek out you know a better quality of care for employees like one of the things that I Find you know which is why it's so compelling for businesses is you know as a business you've got a kind of business incentive to not like have your employees get sick

but know it also is kind of a great you know to your earlier Point Tony about okay are you actively engaged are you actively disengaged are you kind of semi- engaged and nothing kind of engages people more than wow like you're going to live a long time we're going to take care of You this is the thing life is great you you know that's the thing that uh kind of gives people kind gets them fired up about work and we kind of have this old system where businesses have to provide health insurance but it's done

in like the dumbest way imaginable like massively expensive you know we'll only we don't want to pay for Diagnostics we only want to pay when you get sick and all these kinds of you know bananas things so so maybe that is uh you know That we got a we have a disease care system not a Health Care System right now yeah that's going to change is because also so much is being miniaturized that's why I want to find about what you guys are doing I know open water is working on one nmri you could do

in your home for like $1,500 I know they're not there yet but that's their vision and Direction so much is going to be things that are tied to your wrist or you know we're going to have That data live we all have it right now but at a whole different level in the next six to 10 years and I think um it's going to make a giant difference and and you look around with AI and you look around all the jobs that'll be disrupted new jobs will be created but my bigger concern is that people

you know people say well no one has to work well that's part of the challenge we have right now people need need meaning and without without some form of work and you know Some people's work is play I don't know I assume for you guys it's more play than work it certainly is for me yeah it doesn't mean it's not hard at times but the bottom line is you enjoy it or you wouldn't be doing it at this stage of your life you don't have to nor nor do I but if you can get people

to experience that meaning and whatever they do but it's got to be I think the thing thing that we're somehow missing that's part of the mental health side is Understanding that I'm here for something more than myself you know until you find something you value more than yourself that you want to serve you're going to have limited energy limited Focus limited everything because the more you focus on yourself the more you're miserable it's just the way the mind works your mind is a great tool should be used don't let it use you it's like Tech

you know Tech sometimes starts to use us if we're not smart right you Know social media is a perfect example of that but if you're smart you use your mind but your mind's never going to allow you to enjoy an apple it's going to go is it organic you know it's juu and question everything but you know your heart and your spirit are part of that health and getting people to experience more of that aspect of their life changes everything it changes the meaning of their life it change it makes them more fulfilled and I'm

really Interested not in just solving a problem I'm interested in extraordinary quality of life most people don't have it most people are overweight most people don't have great relationships most people are not financially sound I mean I'm not dumb but there are few that are and I prefer to study the few who do and expand the few who they do to the largest number I possibly can and then the rest I try to take care of by you know providing food for a billion you Know meals as I've done or you know I'm now working

on 100 billion meal challenge to give you an idea because we did our I got fed when I was a little kid 11 years old with no food changed my entire life but the biggest change was not the food it was like strangers care that belief came out of that meal yeah and because of that belief I promised myself I'd do it for somebody else someday so when I was 17 I fed two families and then four then eight then 12 and then just kept multiplying till I got to 4 million a year 2 million

From Me 2 million from my Foundation then I was writing money Master the game you know interviewing 50 of the smartest Financial people in the world Ray doio Carl icon you know Paul tutor Jones Warren Buffett and while I'm doing it I saw they cut the food stamp program it's now called Snap and they cut it by6 billion dollars which means every family on Earth or not on Earth in the United States that need support would have to go without one week's worth of food unless People Like Us jumped in so I was like how

many people I fed in my lifetime from the bridal I started and I found out it was 42 million I was really excited about that and I thought what if I did that in a year what I've done my whole life in a year did 50 million I was like what if I did a 100 million a year what 100 million meals for a decade did a billion meals and I'm proud to Tell you I did it in eight years not 10 years we finished it this last year but now the issue is bigger around

the world you know Governor Beasley who with just retired from the world food program at the UN is now a partner of mine in this area and he called me up one day Dan he goes it's unbelievable what you've done here but because the 80 million people normally looking for a meal that are have food insecurity is 350 million this year no one's talking about it the ukine War has basically shut down the Bread Basket you know the WF doesn't want people to use you know you know the pieces for fertilization that we normally use

right they don't want us to use that and most of it comes out of Russia so what are we going to do well people are dying all over the place so we got together and I opened up the Forbes philanthropy event and I brought him in and myself and we both spoke and I said look and we're looking for 99 More people like me I'm I'm not a multibillionaire and I did this I did 100 million meals a year for 10 years like there's got to be 99 more people that can do that we need

about 70 billion meals while they get the infrastructure in to deal with things over the next 10 years I'm proud to tell you we're up to 60 billion meals in a year so it's like what's possible can change when you educate people what's possible can change when you do Something people don't think is possible and that's what I'm trying to do I'm not um pretending to have all the answers but there are people that have the answers whether it's Health whether it's Finance I want to go to them and I want to take what they

have and bring it to people now not 20 years from now when their clinician finally gets up to speed that's amazing by the way and uh thank you and and and congratulations and thank you I don't even have to thank You because I can see it's done more for you probably than anybody who's gotten a meal it's amazing I I love it are you kidding me I've never I get to meet some of these people but very few of them out of billion meals but feeding America has been my partner by the way and they're

the best organization I've ever worked with and I I've worked with tons they're really efficient here in the US but now it's a bigger issue overseas as you know that's what we're working on now but so So you've hit on something that you know has been driving both Mark and I crazy and maybe you can help us with it in Silicon Valley so in Silicon Valley you know with the advance of AI there's all these kind of people who I don't want who are worried about uh you know what AI might automate and then their

answer um is this idea of universal basic income where it's like oh like we all make it so only us Smarties have to work and then you regular people will just Make it so you don't have to work and you both he and I are like wow that's a bad idea um you're going to take away everybody's purpose and and by the way you know AI hasn't so far taken away any jobs it doesn't look like so we we'll see how that goes or or the net on a net basis um but you know kind

of countering that argument is is is tricky in the sense that uh you point out things I'm like you know we have Ubi for Native Americans it's called the reservation System and it's horrible and you know it's $65,000 a year a piece and it does not do anything you know it's the worst thing we probably ever did uh and so but you know people go well like what are you going to do and how do you think about like like what are we going to do in these job transitions as they happen because you know

even if we're net plus jobs we'll probably you know transition out of some old jobs as we always have with Automation and get to the new ones And how do you think about that and making sure people have purpose you know when they lose their job and have to get retrained I think it's one of the biggest issues that no one's paying attention to I asked President Obama about this years ago and he's like oh it's not going to change that fast and I said hey look at what just happened you know in the you

know the world financial crisis the number of jobs of people just driving Ubers taxis and trucks let's Just assume at some point in the near future you're going to have the opportunity to not have a truck driver who needs health care and who will complain and can only drive eight hours a day Max and takes lots of insurance and now you got a truck that you can depreciate and can drive 24 hours a day without having an accident the insurance is lower I said that's 8 million jobs that's the entire number of jobs that were

just lost during that time that Make the economy look like it's going through the floor that's one category and I and I said you're telling me there's no he goes well we've all discussed it with a bunch of experts and no one thinks the change going to happen that fast maybe he's right maybe maybe there won't be but there's going to be disruption there's no question for certain jobs and we're not preparing these people at all and what happens is just giving somebody money is never Enough because they need that meaning and once they get

the money they'll want more of that money I'm not suggesting yeah you know taxing let's say some of these Technologies separately and providing some core resources for those in need Mak sense or somebody's displaced that money goes for education for something new I think that's interesting but paying people to do nothing um I know there's some studies where they'll say look how well this Worked but they're pretty rare and they're not long-term and so I'm I'm per very skeptical personally I think we all well there's six needs all human beings have in my experience and

that's how I manage and work with people it's like I see which of those needs are kind of their top two driving force so we all need certainty Comfort we can avoid pain have pleasure but if you're totally certain every moment you'd be bored out of your mind so we need uncertainty we Need variety to feel alive too much variety people freak out too much certainty they're bored out of their mind and there isn't like a lukewarm middle it's more your ability to meet both needs simultaneously there's the need for significance to feel unique to

feel special to feel important you can do that by taking risks and trying to build something but then if you fail you look like you're worthless and unloved and so most people Found tearing somebody else down is a much faster way to feel like I'm moving up it's an illusion it doesn't last but it's become a driving force in social media for example you can have significance by how you dress you can have significance by having certain pronouns you can have significance by knowing sports scores many you have significance by making more money there's so

many ways to get significance the only question is do the ways you do It Empower you or disempower you and the people people around you fourth we need connection and love everyone needs it some people settle for connection because Love's too scary and then the spiritual needs are number four five we got to grow we grow or we die and number six we got to contribute so if I don't work I need something else that's going to call me past my certainty get me to step into the world of uncertainty which is where all aliveness

comes from Aliveness comes from uncertainty not knowing that's where growth gets stimulated by trying something you haven't before we need to find better ways to feel significant by doing something useful for others as opposed to demanding significance by you calling me King Tony because that's my new pronoun or whatever it is that you for right you know sire call meire my pronoun proun right you know so it's like lots of ways the question you got To ask yourself is do they serve or not and I think our society has become very driven by certainty and

by significance but it's significance at any cost and so I can change the colors the pictures and the way I look I can tear somebody else down look good I can put up a flag of another country and I don't know anything about it but suddenly I can virtue signal and I'm a good person and so all that I think is starting to wear out I hope because we're all you know We're all dying for something deeper where you know reality TV is is so it's like is there anything real left in our society and

I think when there's something real people tend to move towards it that's been one of the one of the great things help me in terms of reaching mass number of people because you can't fake it when you're doing something 12 hours a day four straight days and nights giving you every ounce of your soul people start to go hey this Is the real thing and then they step up because you go first and maybe Mark like how do you think about um this whole oh people don't need to work you know perhaps we should hand

them money um or you know this purpose in life and you know if not work then what yeah so the the Romans had a fundamental conception of politics and it had to do with a relationship between Patron and client um and so the definition of success in Roman politics was as a Politician you wanted to be a patron to as many clients as possible um and of course it's a dependency relationship right the clients are dependent on the patron um and so there basically that I think that's the pattern that keeps for keeps keeps keeps

uh keeps reestablish reestablishing itself which is again if you're a politician you know what do you really want you want you want a dependent voter base um and you want to basis dependent on on on on laress and Things that you can do for them and then you know ultimately that resolves to uh you know to handouts um and so there there's a very natural inclination in the political system to you know basically let's say Farm the the citizenry um and I mean Farm in the sense of farm animals yeah um like it's just it's

a very natural motivation on the part of politicians and so it's a it's a um you know and look it's one of these things where you know if if people Have the negative psychology we've been talking about you know the idea of basically getting free handout sounds pretty good um you know when people have you know real self-respect and real Pride um you know they they they find that to be very offensive um which which is very dangerous uh from a political standpoint because then they you know they're not going to just always vote for

the person who's given them the handout um and so as as with all these Things it it comes back to one's own view of oneself um and you know whether whether whether one is is proud of of what of what you of what one is doing with with with your life Tony what do you have coming up next I got a lot of things but one thing I've done since the very beginning of covid is uh when people are stuck at home I was like you know how do I reach people and have an impact

and so I decided I don't want money or time or travel to get in the Way so I built the studio and we started doing these events for three days uh and we called a summit and it's called time to rise basically rise above all the BS to own yourself again regardless of what's happening with the economy or the environment what do you do with your body your mind your emotions your relationships and it's just three hours a day for three days there's zero charge and uh and we really have a blast last year we

had 1.8 million people join us To give you an idea for those three days so it's coming up on January 25th through the 27th J 25th to the 27th and then if they go to time toise summit.com time toise summit.com and then I have a new book coming out it's my third in the financial area one that I think you guys would appreciate this one is called the Holy Grail of investing and it's really based on the fact that for you know the last 35 years as I'm sure you know the S&P has been up

what 9 .2 and the Average private Equity has been up 14.2 so literally 50% better compounded per year for all those years so I interviewed 13 uh of the best in the world people you know uh like you know Robert Smith from Vista Partners who managers hundred billion dollar venod Koso who's in your category obviously uh Ramsey from Veritas uh Michael Kim you know is considered uh the the the king basically of Korea of you know he got the largest fund over there in Korea Doing Chinese and Asia and I brought their principles toly but

I also wanted people to see not only these people producing 20% plus compounded returns some of them more than that for decades but I want them to see that they could get in the game I I only got into this little bit ago but I own a piece of 65 not funds but the actual firms themselves you know you can be a general partner or a limited partner limited partner investors a lot of times it's Like you guys pretty hard to get in there and I was frustrated by that initially and then I found out

there were ways to actually own a piece of the businesses so we own 65 of some of the biggest silver lak starwoods this uh veritos you it's pretty exciting because you get the 2 and2 as a partner in this right alongside it so I explain that explain how you can now own a part small portion of a sports team where you know they've Averaged 18% versus the 9.2 over the last 10 years and they're not just putting butts in seats now now it's a different game or private credit where you know in as a compliment

to bonds where people can see two to three times returns so the book is all about those principles and tools and it comes out on I believe February 13th actually so hopefully people will join us they can go to time to rise.com and there's no charge for it I'd love to serve them all Right and that that sounds exciting I think I'll be joining that so thank you again with that since we've taken so much of Tony's time um and by the way I I I've enjoyed it tremendously thank you so much for coming on

thank you guys I really appreciate your time and your energy and more importantly I appreciate what you're do in the world blessings to you all all right thank you so much and right back at you thank you thank you Tony [Music] okay