Focus Group: Ser madre antes de los 30 | Gen Playz

A RTVE PRODUCTION IN COLLABORATION WITH THE STORY LAB ("Genplayz" tuning) Good afternoon. How are you, my dearest? This afternoon, we face a show which is not only beautiful, but also necessary. We will talk about young mothers. That mythological being in a Spain in which the average age to be a mother, well, it goes up to 31 years-old. Which is also young, but even younger. We will tell about experiences, stigmas, realities they have to face in their lives these mums who have decided, well, to go on this adventure. I don't know if that in itself

is... Saying this quote is a stigma on its own. But hey, let them talk, because, indeed, the protagonists are these mothers who are joining me today. Hey, firstly, thanks so much, girls for coming. And well, we're going to make a round with a little description of each one. Well, I don't know. What do you do for a living, how old are you? Well, I don't know. How old is your little one. What you want to tell, huh? That is, here we are also very lax for that, we don't demand. Celeste, you start. Well, I'm Celeste.

I became a mum when I was 17 years-old. I got pregnant at 16. Today, I'm 20 years-old. My little girl is three years-old. And well, that would be a bit of my story today. Well, formal... I mean, professionally, I'm... I'm an intern in a billing department. Well, this would be a bit of my story. Sometimes I create some content about motherhood. But... but, well. My child, and a person very nice and very kind, which is very important. And very nervous. No, no. We are here... Literally, your living room, but with a more ugly carpet. Inés.

Well, my name is Inés, I'm 27 years-old and I have a 20 months-old son named Enzo. And well, I dedicate myself to painting, I'm a plastic artist. Although I don't like to define myself as an artist. But I don't know how to describe it so that people understand it. And well, that's it, little more. Well. Well, effectively, this is like, "How are you?". "Fine. Or shall I tell you?". The same. Andrea, on Zoom, how are you? How do you do? Thank you very much for participating. Tell us. Hello. Well, nothing, I'm Andrea, I'm 28 years-old

and my eldest is almost five. I mean, I was a mother at 23. Do you have two children? I'm an actress and... I have two, yes. One and two. I've gone crazy twice. Yes. Yes, yes. And I'm an actress and I also create content about motherhood. I report on prenatal mental health specifically. Ah, prenatal mental health. Wow! Interesting. What does that mean? Well, it's the mothers' health, basically. The mothers' health. Mental health. Yes. Okay, okay. Well, I want to tell you, mental health in general is a mess, but of course, in the mother world, with

all the hormonal issue, well I guess it has its... well, details. Its intricacies. Its intricacies, of course. Clara is also with us on the Zoom. How are you, Clara? Oh, open the microphone for me, honey. Sorry. Hi, I'm Clara. I'm 24 years-old. And well, my son is in process. And... and nothing, I'm currently unemployed, but I study Graphic Design in Madrid. And nothing, I came to live to the village with my couple and this came up. Hey, well, now you'll tell us a little about your story, Clara. Congratulations. Look what a smile you have, like

you would be touching your belly, Clara? Oh, my... This is taking up a lot, so I have nowhere else to put my hands. Well, let's go on over here with the dummy table, because it's figurative, right? With Aimara. How are you, Aimara? How are you? Well, I'm Aimara, I'm 26 years-old. I became a mum when I was 25. My son is 11 months-old right now. I dedicate myself to the audiovisual world. But since I got pregnant, I've taken a two-year break and look for a job that could reconcile with the child. At the moment, administrative

in the mornings and mum in the afternoons. Well. Well, full-time mum. Exactly. Exactly. But today, to be able to reconcile, well... Well, you all are talking about this whole labour issue, which, obviously, will be one of the pillars that we will touch, because I understand that it would have affected, obviously, to your professional careers. Because there's a stigma and there's a lack of fairly broad conciliation. Of course. Right now, I can't get in 12 hours of filming and I can't be... Of course. ...from here to there, locating and others. So, until the little one is

a little older, that he starts school or kindergarten in September, well, I not thinking... Totally. ...to come back to the audiovisual world. Well, I insist, we'll pick it up right now the topic of... The labour topic. Manuela, how are you? Hello. How are you? My name is Manuela and I'm 19 years-old. I became a mum a year ago, at 18. My daughter's name is Victoria and she's six months-old. At the moment, I'm finishing high school. And little more. I have worked, but totally studying and being a mother. Well, I guess it's time to ask what's

motherhood for you. Someone who dares. For me, it's personal growth in all senses. Because I think it's a sign of life... In my case, it was like that. Because it was something very spontaneous and it wasn't planned. It was even miraculous from a perspective that my partner, in theory, could not have children. In theory, I don't know if it was true or not. Well, it was a sign from life that my life had to change and it has changed for the better. I mean, not for the better, but for, well, it's that my life and

that of those around me has changed completely. My parents' personalities have changed. That is, they have undergone an incredible transformation. And my mum, who has a mental illness, has also suffered one... She is another person. So, I think that's what it is, it's personal growth and you have to take it as a challenge to be better every day and leave behind bad habits, leave bad people behind. And it's a filter. It's a filter that if you comply with it, you are happier. And if not, then it's worse for you. And period. Well, the truth is

what a marketing. What a marketing, Inés. I mean, they make you want to, well, anything. Celeste, what kind of... questions you've had to face for your young mater...? Your presumed premature maternity, right?, in a social environment. I think that more than asking us it's usually the amount of advices we start to receive. And I think that for being young, like those advices are intensified and like, well, typical, from your mother-in-law, from your mother, by sheer experience, they see themselves with that right on you. To analyse and advise you. And more than letting you flow, well,

it ends up being a bit to try to make them see that you get all the... all the challenges that you propose and others. And well, it's a bit complicated. Yes. And basically, that people are very boring. You're being very polite to say that... For example, Andrea, how have you experienced the pregnancy planning topic? They gave me their condolences directly. The condolences? Holy shit! Well, they looked at me like, "Oh, poor thing". Right? Like her life, suddenly, up in the air. I didn't understand anything. I've been so happy being a mother... But of course, I

think that infantilization is also done to us at 35, eh? It kind of seems like if you get pregnant, you go dumb, you know? Like, "Pregnant women are dumb". So, they explain everything to us slowly, yes, like unsolicited advice. Yes, as if we weren't able to do what we have decided to do. Aimara, have you also felt what Andrea is describing? Yes. Well, in the end, above all, they see us with a face that says, "Oh, how small you are". "How are you going to be a mum? I have to help you". I even have

friends who tell me what to do and relatives who aren't a parent and don't know what responsibility is. "You can't allow this. You can't do this like this". I say, "It's just that you don't know". "You don't know what you're up against". So, it's quite... You can just shut up. It sucks. Yes. I mean, yes, yes, it's strong, it's strong. Manuela, are you also in that situation? Well, tell me too a little about what being a mother means to you. Well, for me, being a mum is a stage for women, obviously very important. I mean,

you fulfil yourself as a woman and as a mother. And you live for that person. And I, I mean, I've always said, "In the future, my son doesn't have to thank me". I mean, I have to thank him because I decided to have a son. I mean, it's a process, very beautiful, for me. I've been super judged. I mean, what Andrea said. It seems that you have died. That is, you're creating a life, not killing someone. And in the end, that is, to all the women, may they be 16, 18, 20, 40, is the same.

You're going to live the same with the same love, hand to hand, you're going to feel the pregnancy, you're going to feel a birth, so I don't understand why. For me, there is still a lot of judging in that society. I mean, for me being a young mum goes hand in hand like, "You have failed". "You won't be able to fulfil yourself as a woman, as a young person". "You will do it wrong, because...". Inexperienced. You're inexperienced. People are over you all day. Family, friends, as Aimara says, and it's true, like you have to do

it like this, you must do it like this or your child will be like this. I think... Academically, in your case, Manuela, how has this affected you? Quite. Because... Did your teachers understand it? Didn't they? No. I mean, when I finished... At the school where I finished ESO, people were like, "My goodness, she got pregnant". "Poor thing". "Wow, now what's coming over her". "Too bad. She had a super nice future". "Everything has gone to shit". Excuse me? I mean, I think not. In my case, I've been able to keep on fulfilling myself as a woman,

as a young person and as a student at this time. And obviously, as a mother. Well, sure, politely, you didn't stick your finger out. But you wanted to do it like this. I mean, I was looking at it. (Laughs) Clara, how do you deal with this moment that is coming to you? How do you face your next motherhood? Well, I, informing myself as much as possible, trying to retain everything that I think will be the best for my son. And of course, what they say, the comments and advice they give you without asking, clearly you

don't ask for them, they give them to you just because. Just because of the fact, I don't know. And... and the truth is that sometimes it overwhelms so much information and so much stuff. I think that when the time comes I will have to let things flow. And nothing, well, that, little by little. Totally. Well, you were talking at the beginning, Aimara, about the labour topic. What other resignations have you...? What more have you had to give up to? Above all, me, social life. I mean, I'm a super active person. In fact, this's the typical

time to see which festival I'm going to go to in the summer. And now, it's to see what I can afford and if I can afford something. Because, at least in my case, I don't know if I can go around the corner. Because between the rent, the child, the expenses there are, the nursery... I mean... I mean, social life above all. Having a beer with your friends during the week, being able to go to a concert, being able to party. It's impossible. Now, we'll also talk about how much a child costs or how to live

with a child. But to what else have you had to give up, Celeste? I consider that I've resigned, involuntarily and without knowing it, to be alone with myself in my mind. I don't think I remember the last day I was really alone, I was just one person who didn't think of anyone else. Now, of course, we are two people and, in fact, I care much more for... for my little girl and in my mind there are many conflicts. And it's not just mine, of course. And well, many worries. And well, I suppose that it will

be like this. The peace of mind of knowing that I have myself and that if I'm fine, everything will be fine. Because to what I'm telling you a fairly important concern is added so everything goes well. Inés. I agree with Aimara. Zero social life, that is, I have no social life. But I really think I'm not missing anything. I mean, my 20 years-old, 21, 23, I lived them to the fullest, as I wanted. So it's really not something I miss. But yes, well, for example, you can't go to the gym anymore, you can't exercise anymore...

You don't have time for yourself. I mean, simple... I'm a single mother, I think I haven't commented on it yet, and well no... All these things that seem a little more superfluous or even like taking a shower, washing your hair, I mean, you can't. But... You have to get up at five in the morning to do all that, that people take it as something everyday. Like you can't let yourself flow like before, right? From, "Now I feel like, I don't know, to do yoga, I do yoga". I mean, you can't do anything without planning it

beforehand. But it's true that with all this you give a lot of priority to what is important and if you need time for yourself, you take it out. And you become more... more organized and you focus on yourself, in the end. That is, in the end, all these impediments mean that you are more focused on what you want. And that for what you don't have time is that you don't get even half a minute, for what you really don't need or doesn't do you any good. Totally. Andrea, do your friends call you to hang out

and all these things? Or is it the classic, "Ugh, we can't". Well, since I'm the one with the oldest children, all of a sudden, my friends are starting to be mothers. So, we started to find each other more easily. But what I miss the most is the ability to improvise. What they said about leisure, more than losing my leisure is like improvising, I can't improvise anymore. But I want to say that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Precisely because I'm the one with the eldest children, there is a day when the space

for yourself begins to appear. I wanted to put in like this ray of light. Thanks. I mean, the forum appreciates it. What...? Well, I don't know. From here, who is a single mum or is taking care of her children alone? I don't know if someone can tell me, I mean, can you tell me a little what is this experience? I think I am the only single mother. Me. -You too? Yes. -Ah, okay, okay. Well, my life as a single mother is, first of all, what I appreciate the most, not having to put up with someone's

observations or advice constantly. I mean, I'm happy. I'm happy I don't have a pain in the neck by my side, indeed. Yes. And above all, because I know he'd have been one. So, I'm... I'm just... Quiet. Phenomenal. Calm, peaceful, which is the most important thing. And then aside, well, I'm lucky to have a job that is very free. With which, in the afternoons, my son occupies the whole afternoon as it's logical, because I don't want to leave him with a girl if I don't see it necessary. I think that... It's that I want to raise

him myself, I don't want nobody takes care of him, a constant babysitter who becomes her mother. And well, in the end, it's about getting organized. I mean, being a single mother is to organize yourself very well. That... I organize myself fatally. I mean, I've organized myself well in my life. But I'm really getting, I mean, to be better than I was before. Because before, well, that, I did what I wanted without organizing myself, I was flowing too much through life. And that, being a single mother, in the end, I think it's perfectly possible. I mean,

I don't think it's impossible or... or... I don't know. I believe this myth that... I don't know. You're abandoned, alone, I don't know what. No. I mean, quite the opposite. No, on the contrary. In fact, I see women who 50 years ago did everything for their husband, breakfast, lunch, dinner, they made their bed, took care of the children, the husband did nothing or he did everything because he "worked". But women also worked. And these mothers could have been perfectly single mothers. In the end, I believe that mothers have often been single mothers. It's something as

very natural. Yes. I understand what you mean. Celeste, in your case? Well, completely different. I mean, I consider myself a single mother due to the fact that I'm separated. But the other part, in this case, the truth is that he does his job as a father, right? The family the same. So, well, we established a regulatory agreement by mutual consensus. Today we take the separation super well and every day better. With a lot of communication to take into to the girl, about... her education and all that. And of course, on top, that point in favour

of sharing her, so to speak, and he gives me a little margin as a person, which I think is necessary, there's a reason because of those clauses in the agreement are stipulated because it's a time that, in the end, also belongs to us as mothers. Because on a day-to-day basis, I pull more from the cart, but then, I can let go a little and take her to her father and go to the gym or even socialize. Crazy, huh? Crazy. (SOME LAUGH) Manuela, which are your support networks? I have my couple, who is the father of

my daughter, who has been the greatest support. I mean, from the minute I found out I was pregnant, he supported me 100 %. Because, let's see, I didn't plan or seek to have a child, but I did choose to have one, which is very important. Many people don't understand the difference between searching and then choosing whether to have it or not. So from the minute I found out, she told me, "Let's move on". He supported me 100 % the whole pregnancy. My mother, at first, took it quite badly. But well, today, she is very happy.

And she's also a... she's a support network. My mother-in-law too. I was a very, very supported person at that point in my life. And then my partner, to this day, well, he's a father, really, I have nothing to say. A super-dedicated, super-caring, super-patient father. And, really, that he has been the best. I mean, for me... My mother has been a single mother and I admire too much single mothers, because it isn't easy to be a single mother. It's not easy because I've seen it in my mother. But you can have the opportunity to have someone

by your side and if it's your daughter's father, much better. Aimara, in your case? Well, in my case, obviously, my couple. My couple super well from the very first moment. Also, he's older than me and, in the end, he is within the average age of having children. Then, great in terms of work, in terms of financial support, in terms of always being there, great. And mainly, my mother. Because when he and I are working and we don't have anyone, my mum is, well, for me she is my referent. I have valued my mother much more

since I became a mother. I mean, my mother to me is like, I don't know, I mean, she's the person I admire, the one I love. And that she stays with my son every day and it's like... like what Inés said, that, in the end, I'm not going to pay anyone to keep my son. My mum is the person who can best take care of my son, after me, obviously. And then I have my sisters. Well, truth is we really are a matriarchy in my house. So, my sisters, my grandmother, my aunt, we are all

super pending. In fact, my aunt lives downstairs and she goes upstairs to see the kid. If I need to take a shower or whatever... I mean, my family for me has been... They're all into this. Yes. # With so many ma, ma, ma, ma, ma. # Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. (SHE CLEARS THROAT) Clara, what are your fears right now? Well, for me it's more the facet of if I am going to be a good mother or if I am going to do it badly or whatever. Yes, in my mind I have those fears of...

of doing something wrong or doing something that has happened to me and do it unconsciously. Things like that don't... Yes, I give it a lot of thought. But there are times, as my midwife tells me, that are unavoidable. And sometimes, we turn to what we know. So, of course, being informed and all that is very important, but try not to go into that, things that have happened... Well... ...in your childhood and things like that. No, no, totally. In fact, Andrea maybe here can give us light, because she is an accompanying outreach specialist in post-partum, etc.

So, I don't know if you can give us some, well, advice or information about that moment also so key, right? Because you're pregnant with your shot of hormones, I guess, and, suddenly, well they can come the comedowns. Yes. There is a very old man named Donald Winnicot, who is a very old psychiatrist, which speaks of good enough mothers. He says you don't have to be a perfect mother, you have to be a good enough mother. And listening to Clara, this came to me, that I say a lot to women. Because this Clara shares, I don't

know what those who are there think, like guilt is one of the big ones... Yes, of the great wounds of motherhood. You feel guilty for leaving, you feel guilty for staying, you feel guilty if you scream, if you're wrong, right? There is always a very, very big demand. So remind us that we shouldn't be perfect mothers, because that would force our children to be perfect children. And yes, I know shit. Wow! Well said that too. Do you actually believe that there is, so to speak, a clash between feminism and motherhood sometimes? Yes. I mean... I,

for example, am in favour of abortion, but I've felt... I have someone close to my family, I don't want to say who, in case she sees the video, that... Well, she'll know from the description I'm about to do. Surely yes. That she, I mean, like, "Just because you're a mother doesn't mean that everyone should be at your age". For me it was something... When she told me, I said, "Excuse me?". I mean, I'm not saying nor do I want to convince anyone. What's more, I tell my friends, "Take care, because this is hard". But that

a person comes to you to judge you and tells you, "You being a mother doesn't mean...". "There are women who can fulfil themselves not being mothers". And I tell her, "I never said that". I mean, honestly, there is a part of feminism that I don't agree with. And it's in this aspect. About how people think being a mother is against feminism. That we mothers are submissive, that we like that, because dedicating ourselves to a home, that we aren't independent, that we aren't going to work. And it's quite the opposite. I think that we aren't inhibited

to do anything being mothers. Celeste and Inés. Well, what I can relativize about feminism with my motherhood is that I have a little girl and, the truth, well, to fight because we always have our rights present, that are fundamental, as anyone has. And nothing, well how... I remember my mum when I got pregnant and we found out that she was a girl. The first thing she said was... Come on. "What a pity". Did she say, "What a pity"? I mean... I would have... We've hit the button. She literally told me, "I think it would have

been easier for her if she had been born a boy". I mean, I don't want to make a big deal of this, because it was really like a comment that we treated at the time, but it's true that we realize that, well, as women, that is why we keep on fighting. And for that, well, I think it's something fundamental. But I would link it to that, to the fact that I have a girl and feminism is fundamental for me in maternity for that. Because it must be passed from generation to generation until it's no longer

necessary. Absolutely. Inés, what is your perspective? I think that motherhood is empowerment of women. Not family or partner. That is, the woman. In the end, being a mother makes you stronger. Precisely because... Because, I mean, all those comments, all those observations, you have to learn to ignore them and to never be affected by them. And that minimal intervention in yourself makes you stronger. That is, that you become stronger before anyone else, that you don't care what others think, that you have your own criteria and you follow it. And I think that starts with pregnancy. You

start with all these observations, these absurd advice. Yes, I mean, it's almost, I think, from what you describe, there are no more society planning that about pregnancy, especially in the case of young people, for what you describe. In other words, that's where the fuss begins, "Well, you'll see". "You have to do I don't know what". "You have to... Gentleman". Yes. They even try to convince you in which hospital to give birth to, which doctor to give birth with. Yes, yes. (INÉS) Yes, really. What name to put on the baby. When I told them that I

was going to name him Enzo, they told me that that was not a name, that he didn't have a saint. That I had to name him Carlos or what do I know, a Spanish name, because the boy was Spanish. You don't know how angry I was with my grandparents and my dad, that I love my father very much. Dad, I love you, but you were a pain in the ass... A Spanish name. And I put Enzo to the last consequence. I didn't even like the name anymore, but I wanted to use it. And then the

whole coronavirus pandemic arrived and I was thrilled, because I had to be locked at home without listening to anyone. And so it was until... So the first five or six months sucked, but then great. Well, I'm getting off topic. No, no, it was conciliation with feminism and it's interesting what you're saying, everyone has an opinion. I don't know if in your case, Aimara, you've felt that look or if you can give a perspective also of the bureaucracy. That is, that you arrive and go sign the baby up in the Registry or whatever and they make

you like, "Oh, my girl", you know? That disgusting social condescension. Well, I think that a little of everything happens to all of us. In the end, they judge you. The name thing has happened to me too, my son's name is Lorenzo. Hey! Yes. They told me to call him Lorenzo. This one does, of course. So... But for example, I didn't name my son until he was born because in the end, I was pregnant, I didn't idealize motherhood, I carried it quite normally. I wasn't in plan... well... Yes, painting your belly with a smile. Not that,

okay? I simply carried him and that's it. I'm a fairly calm person, I'm not that emotional, so I said, "Well, like this". And everyone harped on me like, "Name the child now". Oh, please! How are you going to name him? My father-in-law's name is Antonio and my father's name Gustavo, so my grandmother used to say, "Well, Antonio Gustavo". Things like that. I said, "No, please". And then until the end, he was born and I finally sent a Whatsapp to the groups saying, "Lorenzo was born, this is your grandson, nephew, cousin, whatever". But the whole pregnancy

was very hard. "Please, name him now" and they tell you lists. That's very strong. Have a photo shoot black and white with some chiffon shirts, backlights, that is, please. It's very strong because it happens to everyone and it's real, the crush is very strong we can suffer during pregnancy in this kind of nonsense like the naming, but it's real. I don't know if I will have children but I'm going to launch the message, don't confuse me, that is, don't harp on me because I swear to you, I put my hand out for a walk. I'm

not as patient as you, girls. Yes, you have to drink a little glass of patience every day because if not, you won't get it. It happens to us with everything. It happens with feminism, with racism... All the time you have to do like, "Well, I have to be a pedagogue". "I am a racialized person, I have to explain to you in a good way why I am a person of colour and why you are a racist". The same with transphobia. "I'm a trans person, I'm going to explain to you...". There comes a time when you

say, "Look, gentlemen, go to hell." You know? Yes, yes, it's very strong. Let's talk about the money chapter, Clara. We start with you. Have you calculated how much it costs to have a baby? Uh... No. But yes, I've ever discussed it with my partner that a baby, well... that he costs money, that you have to have the investment to know that he costs a lot of money. My partner was not aware at the time, when we were talking about having a child and he said no, that having a child doesn't cost money. they're born with

a silver spoon in their mouth, that's a lie. That's a lie. So... nothing, now he's beginning to realize that yes, it does cost money. Dude, you locked the barn door, we have to tell him too. Yes, yes, but hey, it's that he goes at his pace, it doesn't matter. And nothing, now of course, buying things, looking at diapers, buying clothes, yes, the crib, the car, all that, looking at the price he has already put his hands in his head saying, "My goodness, yes". And there are also some brands that are a bit opportunistic. Hearing the

word wedding or the word child and they say, "Wait" and they put a bonus track that you say, "We haven't ordered this either, sir". Yes, it's also strong because it's like the sanitary pads that all women use for half of our lives... Exactly. ...and they cost a fortune. Indeed. Pink rate already, we take the opportunity to say it. Yes, yes. Andrea, you have this more maybe under control with not one, but two, two person units. Two thousand units. Effectively. Well, how much does it cost to have a child? Is it a thing that requires an

economic sacrifice? It's something that there is a lot which I think backs you out from motherhood. That is, in young people, well, an economic issue. Hm... I think that just as they were sharing the unsolicited advice is the same with unsolicited junk. You are a mother and they sell you junk for everything. So when you realize you don't need that much history, suddenly, motherhood becomes cheaper. Motherhood is very expensive if you make this list that they make you in stores they sell you until I don't know... It's like very strong everything they make you believe

you have to buy. Then, in practice, they are things that you don't use, sometimes you don't even use the co-sleeping crib. Sometimes the baby ends up sleeping in your bed. So if we did it the other way around, if instead of buying before becoming mothers, if we started buying according to our needs, it would be cheaper. Still, it's expensive, especially when they eat, dude. When they eat real food, that's when they are most expensive. Yes, huh? Mine, yes. -When they eat. Why do you nod? Yes? Well, if I can point something out, I really... I'm

getting out of this car, girls. Excuse me. I wanted to join you at some point, but... I discovered it trying to be self-sufficient and at the same time, to be able to generate to take care of another person because of course, when I started as a mum I was 17 years-old and until today, to this day, well, I still need some help, less and less. Well, for the State, which was also something I wanted to comment on, well, yes, I have received some help, thank God, and well, to this day, what I'm telling you, trying

to be self-sufficient and I think it's been quite traumatic to face all the financial responsibility attached to the other part... Yes, emotional, personal... No and that in the end, you go with a person, I have to put the silver spoon. Yes, the child doesn't bring it. That's for sure. So it was like a shock. I haven't even been able to generate a salary in my life to spend it on me. Mm. So it has been a shock and realizing that there are a lot of expenses. Not just the main ones, those from the crib, the

diaper... Well, to this day, my daughter also eats too much, but then it's the electricity, the gas, the nursery, the school food, the day to day, transport, all of it and of course, it comes together. Would you say then that it's a class privilege even sometimes to be able to have offspring? Yes, totally. -Yes. -Also, if you want to have more... Because of course, in the end you stay with one. In my case, I don't know if I'm going to have more because financially, it's a lot of money. The nursery is, depending on which one,

400 or 500 euros per month. If you earn 1000 euros per month, which more or less is the current salary, at least in my case, it's impossible. Is there bias, for example also in the work area? That is, have you been asked in an interview "do you have children" or "do you plan it" or "are you going to have"? By the way, let's take the opportunity to say that's illegal. You don't have to answer that question, but has it happened to you? I'm lucky I didn't have to go to any interview. Because you are freelance,

sure. Exactly. But really, in my case, my son has come with a silver spoon in his mouth which is that he has boosted my career. I mean, he has boosted my career and it's like he has given me luck and a lot of strength to do what I do. So thanks to him, in part, because I'm not in a shitty job and putting up with those kinds of questions. But 20 years ago, those questions were completely legal. Right. My mum, for example, had to work until the last day of her pregnancy and then she had

a mental disorder because of the labour, that is, the job topic should be... I mean, when you work, when you start working, when you stop working, that should be much more regulated because really, that is, pregnancy is not the perfect time to be working all day, so... And besides, not everyone is affected in the same way. Yes. Actually, I don't know, Andrea, what's the situation, a little indeed, of work gap? I mean, because it's not nonsense. In the end, this that is always claimed of glass ceilings, of that, conciliation. Now with this famous hoax about

how much money the Ministry of Equality spends. It's precisely to give aid to family conciliation in its great majority. How is that lived? Well, it's that conciliation is the real hoax, conciliation. It's a hoax, it's a myth. Of course, the mothers are giving up all the time. Either we give up our career or we give up our upbringing. Many women who want to care for their children have to give up their careers because they have to take leave. That's if they can afford it. If not, they have to give up their upbringing. The issue is

that there is no aid, the leaves are 16 weeks, I don't know, Inés, if you have seen a 16 week-old baby, but he can't sit still. You know? I can imagine it. We have to leave our babies that if they eat breast, it's exclusive breastfeeding, they only feed on that, but you have to leave them with eight more in a nursery, right? We are at a fairly critical moment, but since no one sees this, it's hard for us to see the lack that there is. But yes, of course, it's a burden for mothers in terms

of work. I want to emphasize one thing that is very strong because in my case, I decided to breastfeed, currently I do. The pediatrician tells, "Exclusively six months of breast milk", but after four months you have to work, so it's impossible, I mean... You're pumping milk all day to juggle and you need the feeding bottle... In the end, no, I mean, it's impossible. Tell me about your day, Manuela. Well, I tell my experience, A year ago, I was working pregnant. I didn't say I was pregnant at work, I have a serious blood problem due to

anaemia and I had to take a sick leave. In the discharge it didn't say it was due to pregnancy. The thing is, they kicked me out while I was pregnant. Then I took them to trial and such and the lawyer that I got demanded my maternity, the 16 weeks, I also think that you have a week of breastfeeding and that is, the same bosses told me, "Breastfeeding? Are you still breastfeeding?". And without working with them anymore. I mean, people are judging you all the time and I see it... I mean, the comments were super unnecessary.

They told me, "Look at her, how quiet you had it". "Pregnant and you didn't want to say it". Super strong things. Then I, in my case... Did you know what I had quietly and didn't want to tell him? That he was a jerk and a scoundrel! And the job was... It's not... Fully exploited. I mean, a shit salary, a bunch of hours and of course, I was sick. It's more than that, my pregnancy could be unnoticed, what's more, they looked at me with a shitty face in court like saying, "Look at her, very clever, what

a scoundrel". Saying things like that to me. And talking about the economic issue, I couldn't breastfeed my daughter because I had mastitis. Yes. Your milk builds up and it's an inexplicable pain. And the milk is super expensive, the formula is super expensive and every time it's more expensive, I mean, it's... Really, it's a horrible fixed cost. -A luxury. What, Celeste? Nothing, she said that it's a luxury to feed in this case with prepared milk. I was going to tell you... Oops! I hit myself. I come to shed light on this case. In the last interview

I did, well, again my mother telling like always, "No, don't say you're a mother, don't say it, don't say it". And I'm not doing it unless I'm asked, well, I don't have to go with the sign either. because I'm not just a mother, I'm many more things and it isn't something that I see as fundamental in an interview, but I come to bring the glimmer of hope because in the last interview I did they asked me why I chose to do the professional training I did, because I did a dual professional training in which in

a whole year you take away the theory for the following year to do it completely for practices and on top of that they aren't paid. So when I went to do the interview to do this year of training in the workplace, they asked me why I had chosen that formation and the truth is that if it hadn't been because I've been a mother, I probably wouldn't have studied that, this format is quite demanding. So I said, "Look, I'm going to tell you why I chose this" and I told him that I was a mum and

in this case, my boss, that nowadays I have to thank him, because he was moved and he saw it as something super positive. Add that in the end, I'm a very young person in a work environment, but that was just positive points. You've known how to have that responsibility, well for you. And I literally ended up crying in that interview from the emotion of saying "Gee", recognition sometimes, gee, it doesn't cost that much and I think it gives us a lot, like that push to be able to face everything and today I am in my

job in a company, I work long hours, I give up my motherhood a lot, but at ease, happily and that's very important, very important, really. It sure is pretty. Clara, to go a bit to the theme of the... You've commented before well, that you're paying attention depending on the advice, that you take some and you don't take others. How are you preparing for that motherhood? Are you doing it through influencers, through web pages, books? Do you follow more your mother's advice? Yes, I have read a book. Well, mainly, I've read one for childbirth because I'm

preparing for it, but... but yes, regarding how I'm informing myself and all that, yes, I've heard about respectful parenting and I think it's the most appropriate, at least for my case and yes, I'm learning about what it consists of, what values ??does have and the truth is that it isn't an upbringing in which we have grown up, so it's a bit complicated knowing something new and different and above all, the bases of that upbringing. So little by little... Are social networks pulling you in this direction? Yes, especially on Instagram or TikTok, sometimes there is a

video that is interesting so I keep those videos or some publication and the truth is that they come quite well because from time to time, I review them or I see them with my couple and I say, "We could do this like this". "We can cover this situation in this way". The truth is that having examples both visual and... from other mothers helps a lot. Well, I'm going to use this to make us laugh. I don't know if there are mum quotes that you're already saying. Hm... Andrea, any mum quote that you say "Oh, my"?

Yes, yes. Well, the "I take that door and I'm off". I managed not to say it, but I thought about it. But the rest, all, and also, when they grow up, when the tantrums start, when they start talking about confronting you and all this, that's when they come out. I don't know recall one to tell you, but that I've said them all, you can bet. See for example, "If I go, you can be sure I find it". Well, that kind of things, but it's strong because they come to me and I say, "No, you're not

going to say that". But it comes, it comes the internal impulse, you know? Is there anything you told them to tease them? For example, "If you misbehave, I'll put you back in the belly". Yes, I've said these things before. Not exactly this, but like this and the bastards, what respectful parenting has is that then they look at you and say, "Mum, that's blackmailing". And you say, "Look, shut up for a month, you know?". Wow! A kid telling you that's blackmail perfectly identified with three or five years. Any mum quote, Inés? Hm... That he will be

grounded without going to daycare. Oh! No, but I tell him that like a joke. I mean, that's a joke. He loves going to kindergarten. Well, what a joke you play on him. No, let's see, it's that at night he has a hard time going to sleep and he likes books a lot and he runs out of bed and he has like a mini-library with all his books like this, at his fingertips and he throws them all down and then he picks them up from the floor and he wants me to read him 20 books before

he goes to sleep and I tell him that if we don't go to sleep now, he's not going to go to daycare because he's not going to wake up. So that's how I make him understand that he has to go to sleep to be able to go to the daycare that he loves, but I can't punish him without going to daycare. No. No, of course, he is not very diligent. You would be an abuser, yes. No, no. No, no, we don't want that. Aimara. It's just that he's very little, he's 11 months-old. Currently, he says

"dad" and "mum", I can't say anything like that... In any case, I tell the father. I tell him something very motherly and he tells me, "Don't tell me that, I know what I have to do", and I tell him, "Yes, but the lioness instinct makes impossible not to jump or not to try to say something", but for now, quotes as such, my little one doesn't... Have you finally noticed, Celeste, Manuela, that there is a change truly generational in the education of your little girls? I actually have a theory. Above all, analysing why we decided to

be mothers when we were young, I think that in the end, we have a certain innocence and a certain illusion that maybe a person with the average 31 years-old that we told that is being given now in Spain to be a mother, I think that being young is not... I think we haven't begun to have responsibilities... Yes you do, but you are not perverted. Responsibilities of going to school... Ah, okay. I mean being young. I got pregnant when I was 16 years-old. I really knew little. I told everyone, "Yes, I know...". They told me, "You'll

see what's coming your way". And I, "Yes, yes, I know, it's going to be very complicated". Until you are in it, you don't analyse it and today I believe and sure, I would walk on hot coals, I understand perfectly those 30 years-old mothers who decide to have them now and even go in fear and I understand my perspective when I got pregnant to see everything with a certain illusion and innocence that little by little, well, a little like in dreams, we have more dreams now and as we grow up they gradually fade away. No, no,

Celeste, no, no, please. Please. -On top of that, with that name. You have a heaven name, my child. Don't let your dreams fade away. Exactly, let the sky turn orange, whatever it has to be. That's more common, dreams in people like us. The more adults I see and the more adults I analyse, I realize that they are dull dreams. -Because they have resigned, but I think there is no age... -Responsibilities. I always tell my couple, there is no age to do things, it's to make you want and it doesn't matter if you're 30, 40 or

50. Some people have had to reinvent themselves with the pandemic I had a bar, it didn't go well and suddenly I started to paint and sell on Instagram and that exists and it's never too late, I think. Facts. Manuela. I believe that there is no age to be a mother. I mean, there isn't because, as I said before, when you are a mum, you give everything whether you are 19, 30, 40 or 50 years-old and... I mean, for me, being a young mother... When I got pregnant, it was a mess, I said, "It's the worst

thing that's ever happened to me" and although I was determined to have it, but you realize that being a young mother has many more virtues than being a slightly older mother, like at 30, which is the average today. Why? Because you are learning with another person, which is going to be in my case, since I also have a daughter and she's going to be a little me, right? So you can contribute to that. Then you have more energy, you have more dreams to fulfil. I say, "I want to fulfil myself as a woman and as

a professional not just for myself, but for my daughter". I want to give you an example that no matter how many bumps in the road I've found, for me, she is not one, you can move on with your life, fulfil yourself as a woman, which is very important to me. Before being a mother, I'm a woman and I am... Yes, an independent person who has aspirations, wishes and ambitions. So I think that being a young mother is the best. Of course, you also have to look at the economic circumstances and everything, but for me, it

has been the best decision of my life. It's very nice what you just said. Andrea, yes. I just have to go and I would like to ask you if you let me make a note about class privilege. Absolutely. It's that what is a class privilege more than being a mother is that the experience is pleasant and I want to say that public health needs perinatal psychologists, pelvic floor physiotherapists, lactation consultants so that when there is a mastitis the woman doesn't lose lactation, for when there are sequels in the post-partum period, that women do not pee

on themselves and for when there is post-partum depression, to be able to prevent it and be able to treat it. So I wanted to say that, what is really a class privilege is being a worthy happy mother and I wanted to do that note and I have to go and I want to thank you for giving space to these stories. Impressive, Andrea. Well, we say goodbye to you and I don't know if there is any more point to make, but it has been a beautiful closure. Inés, do you want to make a note? Well, I

totally agree with what you just said. I especially want to emphasize that each person... Well, I am telling you that you are pregnant right now, please, be very aware of where you're going to give birth, that it be in a place that respects you, that they listen to you because if not, they can do with you what they want. Not in my case, they treated me super well, I went to the Torrejon Hospital, I don't want to do any publicity, but they treated me like a queen. The only one who treated me a bit... Well,

the anaesthesiologist wanted to give me an epidural right away so I would shut up and stop yelling because she didn't want to... A scandal. Yes, she didn't want a scandal, I was bothering and such, but otherwise, the rest were great and well, that, I want people to be aware that each step they are taking has a consequence and that in the end, giving birth is an act that many may believe that it's automatic as it used to be, that you gave birth alone anywhere, they scheduled you at nine, they gave you an injection, they broke

your bag so the child was born when the doctor saw fit, but now, I think we are a little more evolved and that we are more aware that you have to love yourself and you have to be aware that in each place they will treat you in a different way and... Sure, but that's what it shouldn't be. I mean, stop obstetric violence and indeed, that normal labour is a respected labour. Exactly. Not that you have to look for it. That violence exists, it exists. In my case, I was pregnant, the midwives asked me how old

I was, 19, and they said, "My goodness, the girl is here". I mean, super unnecessary comments that I went out and felt bad because you are at that moment, as they are saying, the shot of hormones, you are very vulnerable, with all the feelings on the surface enough for someone to make you feel bad that you're pregnant at 18 years-old. That is, very unnecessary comments. Then, it happened to me that while giving birth, they broke my bag unnecessarily. I mean, don't... I mean, "So she comes, let's do this quickly". Do you understand me? And it's

a violence that exists and that isn't talked about. Really, what Inés also said, it's very important to know where you are going to give birth because things like this happen. Well, we're writing this down, Clara. Don't worry, everything is going to be great. This is a reality and yes, we are running out of time so it's been a pleasure to have you with us this afternoon. Thank you very much for sharing your experience and to show the world that you are people absolutely valid, complete. You have made your decisions absolutely responsible and conscious and society

also needs your testimonials as you from the social responsibility that requires not to be... well, that, to be a mum and to do whatever you want, that you aren't judged and well, congratulations for your bravery, your courage and your message which is also very important. Many thanks to those of you who have followed us here today. If you want to talk about something, well, what do I know, write to us, we'll see if we read you or not and a little email to [email protected] as always, and that, stop obstetric violence we're sick and tired of

comments and nonsense. And to the next comment that I read or see as improper I'm going to say, "Do you know what you are?" "A middling person and that doesn't come out. Take it!". I'm sick. It's just, chick, how can anybody say those things?