The Shield

Dear friends, I sincerely welcome you. Our guest in ALLATRA TV studio today is the esteemed Igor Mikhailovich Danilov. Greetings. And Zhanna. Zh: Greetings. Today, I would like to begin, given that today we have Zhanna with us, this is such an opportunity… For many, it's a good sign that (IM: …that they haven’t run away yet) the Anunnaki haven’t run away to another planet yet. Haven't packed their bags. T: Right. So, are you already packing or not yet? Well, we are still pondering.. IM: I see. Maybe, they have come to say goodbye. You haven’t come to say

goodbye, have you? No. Well, you see, this is already good. Yes. Therefore, I would probably like to begin with a question that came to us by mail, regarding the name of one very mysterious and enigmatic planet. People are asking, “How to pronounce the name of this planet correctly — Nubiru or Nibiru?” Neither way. In fact, you have to understand what Nubira or Nibira is (it is written in different ways) and where it came from. As a matter of fact, this planet is called quite differently. And if we translate correctly what Nubira is or, more correctly,

Nubirians (there is such an expression, right?), Nubira is translated as "from behind the Sun". "Nubi" and "Ra" — it’s when the sun was also called Ra in those times. Again, why? Because the Sun was compared to god Ra, well, "life-giving" and the like. Therefore, “from behind the Sun”, “from behind god Ra” (T: This means…), The ones who came here, yes. So… so that was exactly "Nubirians". Is this in the physical sense or in the spiritual sense? No, this is literal, it’s in the direct material sense. So, we are also Nubirians for them. In other words,

those who are on the other side of the Sun. Right, and as for the correct name of this planet, we can surely ask the Anunnaki, but what’s the difference? We’ve touched upon, let’s say, a cosmological topic a little bit. I recall that once you told about the African tribe of the Dogon. They are known today because even with all their primitive lifestyle, by the standards of modern civilisation, They still preserve knowledge of astronomy and cosmology, in particular about the star Sirius — the brightest star of the constellation of Canis Major (the Great Dog). Indeed, we

have found a lot of evidence in their legends that in time immemorial, aliens from the Sirius Star System came to Earth on a spaceship. And not only about that, but they also revere God’s representative who came to them from this constellation (T: Nommo) , whom they also worship; they dress in costumes and have similar celebrations. Right, the Sigi festival which is celebrated once in 60 years and is associated with a certain 50-year period of the star Sirius. It’s also interesting that Sirius is located in the constellation of the Great Dog. What’s interesting is how they

explain why this name of the Great Dog originated. Ancient Sumerians called the Sirius constellation “the dog of the sun”, and already much later Greeks and Romans started calling it simply “dog”. They started calling it the Dog constellation (T: Right, it was already a distorted name) exactly because “god” had come (T: An alien from Sirius, right), who was teaching and instructing them, giving them knowledge, including cosmological, spiritual, and practical knowledge in this world. And, according to their legends, he was called Cur, by one legend it was Dog, by another one it was Cur, well, that’s how

it got distorted. While another thing is interesting here: the play on words. Yet, what was that man called in actual fact? Sah-Ba-Ah, meaning, this relates to something completely different, And a dog has nothing to do with this. So, they confused Sah-Ba-Ah with a dog (sobaka in Slavic languages), and later on it was also called a cur, and if we look into ancient texts, well, of the times of Sanskrit, then exactly Sah-Ba-Ah, Sobaka (Dog), it got twisted. So, precisely “Ba” is the same as the soul (IM: Of course). “Ah” are external shells, “Sah” means spirit (IM:

Right), will, highest enlightenment, meaning, an enlightened soul came into this world… this referred to spiritual notions… IM: Well, this is described in the books (T: Yes, in the books by Anastasia Novykh), who they were and why. It just turns out to be such a seemingly little, insignificant by the system’s standards (IM: Well, surely), such a little substitution, But it totally distorts the spiritual meaning of what was initially inherent. Well, there is not actually spiritual, but rather practical meaning there. The spiritual is secondary there. It was specific knowledge which was conveyed, including knowledge of the world

structure, well, such a purely materialistic understanding. Yet, that knowledge was accurate. At least, this eliminates the question whether there was a paleocontact or not, meaning, whether people met with aliens or not. Of course, they met. This is one of the confirmations, although there are plenty of such confirmations. A lot of such questions are raised, and people say, “If there were at least one trustworthy contact with aliens in the history of humanity…” Guys, how many of these contacts were there? A great many, when the design was depicted even in remote antiquity, the design of these spaceships,

people in space suits, and so on. There are plenty of artefacts. It’s just that if a person doesn’t want to see that — he will not see. This is, again, like spiritual knowledge: if a person is under the control of his own consciousness, he doesn’t see this. He doesn’t see that there is the spiritual, or something else. This is normal. ALIENS FROM SPACE, UFO, FLYING SAUCERS, ANCIENT ASTRONAUTS PALEOCONTACT. ARTEFACTS, ANCIENT SPACEPORTS, EXTRATERRESTRIAL CIVILIZATIONS, PETROGLYPHS, GEOGLYPHS, CONTACTS OF ANCIENT PEOPLE WITH THE ALIENS NATIONAL MUSEUM OF IRAQ BAGHDAD, IRAQ ANCIENT SPACEPORT THE NAZCA PLATEAU, PERU TOKYO NATIONAL

MUSEUM, JAPAN DOGU ANCIENT SPACEPORT BANJUL YUNDUM AIRPORT. THE GAMBIA, AFRICA LARGE MEGALITHIC SLABS THAT FORMED FLIGHT LANDING STRIP IN ANCIENT TIMES ARE LOCATED BENEATH THE MODERN BANJUL YUNDUM AIRPORT. PETROGLYPHS VALLEY OF VAL CAMONICA ITALY PETROGLYPHS ANCIENT ROCK PAINTING OF A FLYING SAUCER IN THE CAVES OF CHARAMA, INDIA. LIZARD-HEADED FEMALE FIGURINE 5900-4000 BC. EXCAVATION SITE: IRAQ, ASIA THE BRITISH MUSEUM LONDON, GREAT BRITAIN BAS-RELIEF MAYAN MUSEUM IN CANCUN, MEXICO. (MAYAN MUSEUM DE CANCUN) POPOL VUH MUSEUM GUATEMALA CITY, GUATEMALA (POPOL VUH MUSEO) PETROGLYPHS A PETROGLYPH FOUND BY A GROUP OF ARCHAEOLOGISTS OF THE NATIONAL NSTITUTE OF ANTHROPOLOGY AND

HISTORY (INAH) VERACRUZ, MEXICO. ARCHAEOLOGICAL MUSEUM DE LA VENTA VILLAHERMOSA, MEXICO. (LA VENTA MUSEUM) NATIONAL MUSEUM OF ANTHROPOLOGY MEXICO CITY, MEXICO (MUSEO NACIONAL DE ANTROPOLOGÍA) BRUNING ARCHAEOLOGICAL MUSEUM LAMBAYEQUE, PERU (THE BRÜNING MUSEUM) "STONE OF THE SOUTH" BAALBEK, LEBANON MEGALITHS IN THE YANGSHAN QUARRY CHINA PETROGLYPHS PETROGLYPHS. SEGO CANYON UTAH STATE, USA PETROGLYPHS KIMBERLEY REGION, AUSTRALIA GEOGLYPH "THE GIANT OF THE ATACAMA DESERT" THE GEOGLYPH IS 86 METERS HIGH THE ATACAMA DESERT, CHILE GEOGLYPH "ASTRONAUT" A 30-METRE HIGH GEOGLYPH THE NAZCA DESERT, PERU. PETROGLYPHS OF THE TAMGALY-TAS NATURAL BOUNDARY KAZAKHSTAN DOUBLE WHISTLE MEXICO FINE ARTS MUSEUM OF SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA,

USA ANCIENT AIRCRAFT MODELS INCA GOLDEN BIRDS ANCIENT AIRCRAFT MODELS THE MUSEUM OF GOLD IN BOGOTA, COLOMBIA. HIEROGLYPHS IMAGES OF AIRCRAFTS OF ANTIQUITY THE TEMPLE OF SETI I, ABYDOS, EGYPT INTIHUATANA STONE MACHU PICCHU, PERU ANCIENT LANDING SITE FOR AIRCRAFT FIGURINES IN SPACESUITS MUSEUM OF ABORIGINAL CULTURES CUENCA, ECUADOR. (MUSEO DE LAS CULTURAS ABORIGENES) "THE BAPTISM OF CHRIST" AERT DE GELDER, 1710. "THE MADONNA WITH SAINT GIOVANNINO" DOMENICO GHIRLANDAIO, XV CENTURY "CRUCIFIXION OF CHRIST." VISOKI DEČANI MONASTERY, KOSOVO 1350 "THE SUMMER’S TRIUMPH" TAPESTRY 1538 BAYERISCHES NATIONALMUSEUM MUNICH, GERMANY THE FRESCO OF THE SVETITSKHOVELI CATHEDRAL MTSKHETA, GEORGIA FRENCH TOKEN 17th CENTURY

MURAL, 1677. THE CHURCH OF THE DOMINICAN MONASTERY SIGHIȘOARA, ROMANIA ILLUSTRATION THE BOOK: “JOH. CASP. FUNCCII LIBER DE COLORIBUS COELI: ACCEDIT ORATIO INAUGURALIS DE DEO MATHEMATICORUM PRINCIPE” 1716 ILLUSTRATION FROM THE BOOK "HYŌRYRYŪ KISHŪ" 1835 IWASE BUNKO LIBRARY NISHIO, JAPAN FIGURINES IN SPACESUITS MUSEUM OF ABORIGINAL CULTURES CUENCA, ECUADOR. (MUSEO DE LAS CULTURAS ABORIGENES) PALEOCONTACT ARTEFACTS Again, returning to the Dogon, in fact, what you are now saying is true, because in their mythology, it may seem to be myths, while, in actual fact, it is said about physics. They talk about god Amma who created the world in a

spiral, meaning, certain laws of action (IM: Physical laws) of this primordial physics are specified there (IM: Surely). Well, again, if you look more deeply into understandings and the remaining knowledge of the Dogon and compare it again with that very ALLATRA PHYSICS, the report which was published God knows when, the parallels are very similar. Everything is very simple. I believe what’s important and valuable is that at all times people throughout the Universe have been striving for this feeling of freedom, this spiritual development, and in the modern world, in one way or another, a lot of people

feel that they want to become free from the limits of the system, from the shackles of the system. With the help of the system. However, the system doesn’t sleep either. Well, let's be honest, almost the entire population of our planet Earth (of our Nubira, well, in relation to their planet), all of us strive to become free from consciousness by means of our consciousness, meaning we are actually looking for freedom in the external, and not in the internal. Well, this is really so (Zh: It is). We’ve already talked about this so many times, and it all

remains the same way. It's just that when we were searching, looking through the questions while preparing for the programme, we found such a topic as retreats. It’s a very popular topic these days, and it precisely concerns this... On the one hand, people want to develop spiritually and go for it in order to... well, as if to get some kind of freedom, that is, to go beyond the limits, as Tanyusha has said. I don’t agree with you. People go there not in order to attain freedom. People go there to gain influence and power. What are people

seeking power for? To influence you, to boost their business, to establish themselves in this world in someone’s eyes, well, in our eyes, so to speak. That's why they go there and study. They study various techniques there: for example, NLP, hypnosis, secret influence, something else, magic techniques, techniques of that very psychology, Well, and sometimes a little bit of the spiritual as well. Again, if we look at those very meditative practices that are used at different retreats or, say, in ashrams, it all comes down to selfishness, it all comes down to consumerism. And where does everything stop

again? At the level of one’s ego, no more. Do people really strive for the spiritual? Well… well, it's true. T: Concentration on oneself. Zh: Yes. Well, it's just that consciousness substitutes that they (IM: Of course it substitutes), on the one hand, it’s sort of self-development and that precisely this... T: They aspire somewhere inside. Zh: Yes. IM: Right. And here, I agree one hundred percent: a person craves internally and wishes to gain spiritual freedom from whom again, first of all? From the dictator in his head. A human is dual, and we’ve talked about this. On the

one hand, there is an Angel in him, and on the other hand, there is a beast in him. And the Angel is trying to become free from this beast. But the beast exactly twists it all, and it makes you fight with the external, dominate over someone. In his understanding, freedom is when the masses obey you. However, it forgets to tell people that everything is finite, And that you have to pay for this, no matter what power you possess, and no one can have absolute power here. No one (Zh: Yes). Even the devil doesn't possess absolute

power even in his own domain, although it's his territory, his principality, and all religions speak about this, don’t they? Suffice it to recall "the prince of this world" (Zh: Right). We’ve already talked about this, I don’t want to come back to it, when he tempted Jesus Christ (T: He tempted, yes, in the desert, power…), and offered him to bow down before him, and "I will give you power over this entire world." That is, he thus wanted to show That all the power belongs to him in the material world, but it’s a limited power, and yet,

not all the power belongs to him. Well, mostly it does. To this topic, I’ve also encountered that people are actually seeking, are in the pursuit of the spiritual and of the questions which trouble them inside. For instance, a woman is sort of addressing her spiritual adviser, so to say, and asking him the following, “It’s difficult for me to get along with people. Meaning, I can’t, I’m not interested and I don’t want to, and for me it is kind of… I can’t understand people, and nobody understands me.” And the answer… the most unpleasant thing about this

was the answer that, “It’s because you are a chosen one, because you are spiritually higher than everyone else, that’s why it’s difficult for you to get along. To support…” And what can one expect being at these, so to say, retreats or at these trainings? What could that woman hear? From her speech, we hear one thing: she is selfish, for her the world revolves around her, she’s the axis of the entire world. It’s hard for her to talk to anyone, she’s not interested, she doesn’t want, “they don’t understand me”. What’s the main problem? She wants to

dominate, whereas they don’t do what she says — that’s the whole problem. While she wants to be above all others, and she wants to be worshipped. Because of that, nobody understands her. Well, no one believes, understands and sympathizes with the poor woman who wants to control everyone. Well, another underdeveloped “napoleon”. What does she want to hear? That she is above everyone. Well, and here trite psychology works, let’s say so, it’s not even gypsy magic, it’s even simpler. This adviser, guru, or whatever he is, tells her that “Everything is very easy — you are much higher

spiritually than everyone, that’s why they don’t understand you.” Well, that’s it, and the woman is among his slaves, right (Zh: Yes)? Well, yes, surely. Where does this striving for exceptionality come from? After all, people often say the following phrases (IM: From selfishness): “my situation is unique”, “my situation is exceptional” (IM: Of course), “things happen only to me”; “only at my door, consciousness knocks precisely this way”. Let's sort this out. Here is a simple example: two selfish people are standing and talking to each other. One selfish person says, "I’ve had such a pain today," he says.

Well, for example, in the liver. The other one says, "What you’ve had is nothing… The headache I’ve had!" — And both immediately lose interest in the conversation. Why? Nobody listens to anybody, everyone tells about their own sore. Well, how many times have we seen that? If someone listens about another's sore spot, it means "he's a good person", right? He listens about your sore spot, so "he is a good, easy-going person". Why? Because this way you dominate him. Whereas, if he immediately interrupts you and starts telling you about his own problems, it means "he’s a bad

person", he is… "It’s in your nature to be sympathetic, you are not selfish," right (IM: You are… Yes)? That is, "you can share pain with another person" (IM: Of course, sure). And, by the way, it is interesting, this point About listening and speaking, let's suppose. If we dig deeper, it turns out that when a person listens he gives his time and attention, doesn’t he? Well, it depends… For example, even in case of idle talk or when someone complains, if you are not a doctor, for instance, while he’s telling you how bad he felt and so

on. The person confuses, he has met an acquaintance and forgotten that it’s not a doctor, and he wants to complain. Why does he do that? To attract attention to himself. Another person, if he is smarter, he listens for propriety's sake (well, why quarrel with an acquaintance or, let's say, an employee or a colleague at work?), but at the same time he solves his tasks in his head, just nodding (T: And it's also very interesting…). Then it’s the right position (T: Yes). He remains as if good (T: A good interlocutor) and attentive to this person, but

at the same time he doesn’t waste his life on empty things. Yet, what is the real struggle going on for? If we put everything aside and look carefully, my friends, what do you think all of us fight for? For each other's attention, for someone's life. After all, for example, I'll start telling you about my sores now. You will listen to me carefully, nod your head, and think, "How… I have my own problems…" — but you are wasting your time, you are wasting your life listening to me, to this stupidity, about my sores, something else… do

you need them? No, you don't, because you are not a doctor. Regarding… In this regard I just wanted to add that this is also the question that is asked in the comments, right? What we got in the letters was that when you said something and the person didn't react emotionally to what you said, just didn't give you attention in the needed amount — and then there is this kind of dissatisfaction, or… well, first dissatisfaction and then, "Maybe I’ve said something wrong," And such doubts (T: Humiliation from the system). Well, that’s how relationships go bad, because

(IM: And why?) of the fact that selfishness hasn’t been fulfilled… No, here the work of the system is actually very simple. It's clear, you are saying it right that selfishness hasn't been fulfilled, but for people to understand, we need to put this simpler. Your consciousness has decided to dominate my consciousness, it attracts with the theme of your own selfishness. That is, I have to invest my attention, spend my time, listen to you, sympathize and the like, but I didn't do that. It means that consciousness has spent its energy. It is something from outside that just

wants to eat, There is nothing sacred for it, no love for humankind. It's a banal program that devours a lot, and devours endlessly, no matter how much you give it. But it has spent a little bit on you, hasn't it? On the fact that you are trying to dominate me. At that time, I didn't react. It wants to take what? Its own. It always… it never wants to work at a loss. What will it do? It will belittle you as Personality, "You are not interesting", "You have failed" — and so on, that is, there are

accusations in your direction. Well, it's here, there and everywhere. So, if it failed to eat the other one, you didn't work as a conductor at this given moment, so it will eat you (T: From the inside, yes). Far and wide. Of course, blaming it all on you. And here, too, Igor Mikhailovich, there are a lot of questions and answers on the Internet now, and even entire fields of science (psychohygiene) regarding the fact that people feel somewhat tired after communication with each other, they describe their state "as a squeezed lemon" (IM: Surely), the fact that… and

how to shield themselves from it, and what kind of phenomenon it is. And this is… well, as if it appears all the time, In some groups, in families, and at work. And people are just afraid of communicating with each other in fact... We've just discussed this, it’s a distribution of life, let’s call it so. Whatever it is called: vital energy, something else, prana, Allat… it doesn't matter — it's a substance, so to speak, which is life. And this is redistribution of this substance among people, constant taking it away from someone because it’s not needed. It

is one thing to have business relations or something else, but often it’s just a provocation of emotion, a challenge, an attraction of attention, an investment of attention, and so on. Or, as they say, cultural communication, right? But what’s the point of it? To eat each other. Everything is very simple. That's why people feel extremely unpleasant after having communicated. There are so many people who, for instance, don’t work in a marketplace, but after visiting a marketplace feel extremely bad. Masses of people, hustle and bustle, and so on. On the one hand (I believe we have once

discussed this already)... On the one hand, there is hustle and bustle, people are rushing around, a thing fits or doesn’t fit, you buy something, you acquire it. Well, this sort of bustling, it makes one tired, kind of morally or psychologically tired, And so people feel worn-out and tired. While in fact, if one takes a look, what is going on? Some people feel great, while others feel terrible Redistribution. There are conductors, and there are donors. Conductors are those through whom energy passes. And the more active he is, the more he is able to pump from someone

and pass through himself to the system, the more remains for him, the less the system eats him. Well, yes, this may be treated in different ways and may be explained from the standpoint of psychology, but it’s also possible to simply look at physics, at the physics of the process, What masses of people are, and what communication among people is. Moreover, to consider what crowds or congregations of people are, and what is really going on, and who is interested in this, who benefits from it, and what for — and everything falls into place. Well, here it’s

necessary to take one thing into account, that the beast as a part of the system, or our consciousness (we come back to consciousness again, my friends) — it’s a part of the system itself, and it always wants to eat. While everything else is little programs and hallucinations. Yet, how can a person, an ordinary person, protect himself during the day? It seems to me that the first thing people have to learn, Once they have felt something, is that the world is not quite the way it’s been told and explained to them, and they understand that they

are not just a two-legged monkey, but something more, then before they engage in any practices, they have to learn what? Zh: To shield themselves. To shield themselves, that's exactly the point. What does AllatRa give right away? It puts a shield into people's hands, right? And until a person has mastered the shield, he cannot pick up a sword against the very system. While in our case, everyone tries to do the opposite, To renounce the devil and so on (Zh: Yes, that’s an interesting question). And what is a shield? Let's figure this out (T: Let's do that).

It’s exactly that protection which is extremely necessary for a person on his life path. What for? In order for him to walk around the marketplace calmly and feel fine afterwards, so that he could listen to whiners who talk about their illnesses or spread such news in which everyone should invest attention right away, or just from dominators and the like. It doesn't matter: visible or invisible creatures, substances, spirits, whoever it is, no matter how they try to influence a person, it won’t succeed, they won’t succeed Because a person possesses what? (T: A Shield.) An ability to

control his consciousness. That is, he as Personality is just free from manipulation of consciousness. What is the first thing that is told about in AllatRa? That consciousness is not you, right? When Personality is free, it understands… you as a Personality, and you are a Personality, you easily capture thoughts that come to you, and you already understand whether you need to implement them or not, whether they can be relayed, conveyed to someone or it's better to remove this thought at all. That is, whom it is coming from, why it is coming, and what influence… After all,

again, everything goes through consciousness. Zh: Yes, now you’ve touched upon such a very good topic regarding how not to react to consciousness, how to be in an expanded state, and so… But this is exactly gaining of a shield (Zh: Yes, right). To protect oneself (Zh: Yes). And there is no difference from whom: whether it’s some kind of magic, whether it’s an influence of a crowd, or whether it is something else. Here, let's just take the influence of a crowd (Zh: Yes, sure). So, a person is at the theatre, a person is on a football field

or at a protest event, to put it in a civilised manner. It doesn't matter. He becomes a part of what? (Zh: Of a crowd.) A part of a single consciousness, yes, such a common egregore gets formed, as it is called, such a common unified consciousness. And here, it’s also possible to consider all this from the perspective of banal physics, and then it gives a better understanding. So, a person has an individuality. For example, talking to any person, what do we see in him? We see in him an individual who is able to think, to express

something more or less freely. Once he gets into a crowd and becomes involved in a process (it doesn't matter, as long as it grabs his attention), he becomes what? A constituent unit of a whole unit. In this case, the crowd is already a unit, while he becomes a part of it and makes up its integrity. That is, if we take an anthill… We once had programmes, we talked about this, it’s also interesting. And, basically, there is plenty of information about this, you can find how bees behave, how ants behave. When they are all together, it’s

a single, intelligent organism. As soon as… it’s enough to remove one or several individuals, They get lost and become just like… helpless, so to say. As if there is no intelligence and understanding, they cannot even return home, as a matter of fact. Let's consider a simple mechanism. In this case, to make it clear, let's consider our consciousness not just as a neural network, because many people already understand that brain neurons are (T: Not consciousness, yes) not the carrier of our consciousness, right. Thank God, science is already approaching this and already understands that consciousness is something

from the outside. Whereas what is reflected, pictures, something else — well, this is such a… radio receiver, so to say. While consciousness is more of a wave structure, let's call it so, an energy structure or something like that. But in order for us to imagine this, let's just refer to the ALLATRA PHYSICS. Purely hypothetically, like in theory, let's assume that energy consists of what? Of some sort of wave. And what does the wave consist of? Let's call it, well, a connection between septons, such microparticles which are really indivisible, and they make up the whole world,

okay? Here again, we have returned to the Dogon, They called it all the Po particle, but we call it the septon as it is described in the ALLATRA PHYSICS and as it was described 12,000 years ago. And these septons, or polar structures, constitute such a little volumetric cloud which is above a person’s head, for example. Next… There is an energy structure of a human himself, in addition to the physical structure. This is already an indisputable fact, there are the Kirlian effects and many others (T: Right, auras and the like), yes, this is an already resolved

and proven issue, so to say. Whoever wants to, will find a confirmation. Of course, consciousness of some people will be rejecting this, They will say, "Show me, prove it to me." Guys, leaf through, read, and you will find. Next… When we are at a certain distance from each other, our energy structures don’t come into contact. What is that? It’s our individual (Zh: Personal space), right, space, personal space. Our consciousnesses have a certain volume, they don’t touch either, and they are in an open, let's say, interaction through verbal or energy mechanisms, doesn’t matter, or telepathic ones,

but they are not together (T: This is interesting). And now we squeeze ourselves, let's say, like herrings in a can, doesn’t matter — into a minibus, for instance. Well, everyone has traveled by bus or, for example, by the underground during rush hour: there is a mass of people. And what do we see? It takes just one little fuse to ignite: one conductor starts getting nervous or making noise — and a wave spreads among everyone. Why? Because this mass is turning into a single mechanism. Well, this is a short-term phenomenon. Whereas, if we take, for instance,

a stadium where there are a lot of people, again, with violation of personal space, When even the fields of this consciousness get partially connected… Yet, again, what is consciousness? Consciousness is a part of the common field, so to say. Let's call it... well, again, from the perspective of that very ALLATRA PHYSICS, our consciousness is phantom particles, while what is also called dark matter are stationary particles (T: Particles) that are in the structure of this universe, or the so-called ezoosmic grid, that is, in this structure. Our consciousness is a phantom particle, it passes through, whereas the

system is like a matrix — it is stable. Thus, everything passes through it, But interaction is also constantly going on, because of the super micro sizes. And so, when we come into contact through our field structures, our consciousness, we turn into what? Into an anthill. And there happens what we see: normal, civilised people, even being sober, when getting to a stadium, become emotionally involved. How do psychologists explain this? A person has got carried away, emotionally invest attention… — and he commits a crime or acts abnormally. Whereas it is nothing but a takeover by the system.

That is, a person invests his entire attention, and he is in a state of a slight trance, Meaning, of such a slight control or manipulation from the outside. Similarly, it happens at those protest meetings, as you’ve mentioned, or somewhere else (T: Shoulder to shoulder for some reason, right?). It’s very crowded, rhythmical… And what do we observe everywhere? Chants, rhythms, influences, natural vibrations. What is this needed for? For aligning and synchronizing. Once the crowd has been aligned and synchronized, once they have been forced to do something: to jump up, to shout “Let’s go! Let’s go!” or

“Goal! ”, or “Hooray-hooray!” — it doesn’t matter, Or any other actions, and this turns the entire crowd into a single mechanism which is easily manipulated, and, of course, it’s extremely far from the spiritual. And here, it’s extremely important for a person to possess this shield. While what is the shield precisely? It is freedom from the influence of consciousness. If a person is truly spiritually developed, if he is free as Personality, then whether he is in a crowd or somewhere else, he sees how something alien enters him, that is, alien influence trespasses on his territory. He

perceives a thought as a necessary or an unnecessary one. What does it mean “necessary”? Well, something has to be done, we all live in this world, We have to live, to communicate, to get dressed, well, and to take a lot of other natural actions. Naturally, this is accompanied by thoughts: to choose what shirt to put on, for example, right? No problem, you can listen to consciousness as well, what it will recommend. However, when it says something stupid, you have to distinguish it easily, meaning, any thought that might have certain consequences for you as Personality. And

this very understanding and knowledge of this process, easy rejection of everything unnecessary, and better even total prevention of its entry, of everything unnecessary and aggressive, of that which manipulates, which gorges on your life, of such pilferers, let’s say – this is exactly possession of a shield. So, whether such a person is in a minibus, at a stadium, or in a protesting movement, no matter where he is, at any action, at any event, he will still remain an individual. And he will clearly see what is happening to people, how people, the smartest individuals, turn into stupid

creatures. This is also easy to notice when you are sitting at one table with civilised, educated people, and you don’t drink alcohol, while they take a shot each. You see how humaneness has already stepped away from them a little. Another shot – and it stepped away even farther. Well, and after the third or fifth shot You are already sitting at the same table with monkeys or pigs who have diplomas. It blocks this.., right? Of course, because they become beasts. Foolishness and everything else: aggression, boasting, selfishness – everything comes out, everything inhuman. Why? Because they become

manipulated. And, as we know, one of the tools is alcohol and drugs which (T: Interestingly) enable the system to manipulate a person completely. Yet, after all, consciousness prompts that those very addictions, for instance… often, tranquilizers and the like are prescribed… that there is some altered, let’s say, state of consciousness which grants a certain feeling of freedom by the system’s standards. Can it?.. No, this definitely doesn't grant a feeling of freedom. Those very tranquilizers as you say, on the contrary, suppress consciousness. A person is in a drowsy state, not quite an adequate one, and he is

absolutely influenced, he is controlled by the system. Sensitivity grows weaker, he totally loses this… Freedom of Personality, understanding that you are a Personality disappears completely. Meaning (Zh: Oppression), the position of an Observer disappears. Mostly primary consciousness prevails, here this should also be well differentiated. Yes, attacks from secondary consciousness become weaker, but there is an absolute domination of primary consciousness (Zh: Of the primary one), of course. Why do people get into such addictions? Is this a weak Personality? It is undeveloped. What do you mean by “weak”? Well, let’s put it simply, a child is born –

is he weak or strong? We'll find this out when he grows up. But when he… a person has lived a whole life to an extremely old age, so to say, but he has an infant inside, who is even unable to speak yet – is he a weak or a strong Personality? Neither. And who, in our case, takes care of Personality development? Who understands that he is Personality? Practically all of our people, well, the entire population of the globe, believe that they are consciousness, that they are the body and so on. Again, the tools which should

give this freedom are usurped, altered and being used, again, as tools of enslavement. Well, isn’t that so? (Zh: It is.) So, that which was brought by prophets, saints and the like, which was given to people as a tool of liberation, gets distorted and is simply used as a tool of manipulation. What for? In order to possess power over those who seek this freedom. Do they get it as such? They do. Those who want to, they find grains of the Truth everywhere. And owing to these grains, they also get liberation (those who really aspire). Yet, what

about the majority? That’s what we have as a result. The majority in our case… they don’t even want anything. Again, they want what? Banal worldly things: more money, less work, to be loved and respected, to be obeyed, to be feared… well, to be such kings. Though little ones, but kings, and better even big kings. While life is a very short thing. What will happen tomorrow? Well, consciousness doesn’t tell them about it. Consciousness tells them that life will go on. Why? Because the life of consciousness will go on. It won’t get worse for consciousness, but there

is no good for a human as Personality in this life, and in that life it will become even worse for him. Yes, it’s a very frequent question because we have also encountered this while preparing, that… How to understand where consciousness acts, and where Personality acts? That is, even while gaining some experience, there are questions that sound, when a person has already really felt how… where consciousness is and where Personality is, but he immediately asks the question from the other side, there goes this… The question comes from consciousness. Why? Because consciousness begins to substitute and imitate

Personality, consciousness starts prompting and controlling. Meaning, it immediately gets activated, it does everything in order to, pardon me… just like we discussed in the previous programme, the goat, right? For the system, a human being is a she-goat that gives milk. Later on, it will give wool, it will give meat and everything else. Well, the system will do anything so that this goat doesn’t become free and doesn’t run away into the forest, therefore it takes over the entire spiritual work instead of the person as well. It immediately exalts him, tells him how spiritual he is or

something else, or on the contrary, it starts saving him from spirituality and says, “What are you doing?! You’ll get hypnotized! You’ll be controlled and manipulated!” By whom? Yet, why do such moments arise when a person has already understood?.. That is, while sort of pondering, he says the right things, exactly like… While pondering, he relies on consciousness, and consciousness tells him. He seemingly knows what the spiritual is. So, consciousness does answer certain questions… It’s merely a dictatorship from consciousness. That is, Personality remains under control, under the power of the system itself, and it hasn’t gained enough

strength to force consciousness to serve it and… on its spiritual path, so to say, while everything is quite the contrary. A person has felt, has obtained the first experience, he’s got inspired, he has enjoyed it. Consciousness immediately starts using the same tool, but it also blames him right away, “Nothing will work out, you cannot do anything,” and it immediately says, “You are much more spiritual than all the rest. All the rest have lost their way; you are the only one who knows the right path.” And later on, it tells you, “What do you need all

this for? What spirituality are you talking about?! Look, you only live one day! Tomorrow you might have nothing. How do you know what is there after death? Well, really, how do you know? You don’t know, do you? Well, our friends don’t know, no one actually knows what will happen after death. While you are being told fairy tales, you waste your time, you waste your life on some spiritual practices, on some communication there… Watching some people on TV or on your gadgets, listening to what they are telling you – you are actually wasting your time. Better

go and drink vodka, play football, occupy yourself with something (Zh: Live to the fullest), live to the fullest, right. You haven’t been with everyone yet, you haven’t tried everything. Just look, life should be wonderful, it should be in full swing,” – swing at your head with something heavy. That’s what consciousness is telling (Zh: Yes), “Freedom is to be like everyone: to build a house, to give birth to children, to plant a tree, to try everything possible, and to die happy.” “Life for the sake of pleasure”, yes, as hedonists have it. Just like that. Life should

bring pleasure. And exactly here a substitution is concealed. What is true Life? It is joy, happiness, and Love (Zh: Right). This is really so, but it’s (Zh: It is) an inner state. However, consciousness cannot… the system itself cannot give inner Love and this happiness to a human. What does it do? It replaces it with the external, creating an illusion of happiness. What is happiness? Happiness is, well, whoever wants what: when you can afford, for example, an expensive watch, and everyone envies you and asks you what time it is — you uncover it, you have a

watch, well, I don’t know, which costs at least 50 thousand dollars? Everyone says, “Wow!” While a person has a salary of 100 dollars, and you have a 50-thousand-dollar watch. Well… “that’s what happiness is”. Or happiness means, for example, to have an expensive car, right? Nobody can afford it in your village, while you buy yourself the best car. When you are driving, everyone looks and loathes you and says, “Jerk!” But this is happiness, for everyone sees you, right? The fact that they spit at your trunk — well, it’s not a problem, “but all of them envy

me, and that is happiness.” This is happiness for the system — to make everyone hate you, to make you an object of envy, but at the same time an object of toadying and admiration, and this is happiness. Is this happiness, my friends? Well, if this is happiness for you, turn us off and don’t listen any longer, don’t waste your time on such nonsense that we are talking about here, right (T: Interesting), if this is happiness for you. Zh: Right, you’ve just touched upon such a topic about human life. And such a question has sounded regarding

how to live simply… This is very simple. Zh: How is it — to live simply? Zh: What is this simplicity in? I.M: Not to live simply, but to simply Live. And that’s where the simplicity is. What is Life, and when is it formed? Life is when you are full of Love, you are just filled with Love, you are a source of Love. And when does this happen? Precisely when the system ceases to influence you. Love is, again, Love, joy, happiness, right? No matter how we describe this — internal… it’s exactly that power which Personality begins

to possess. It’s a full-fledged Life of the Personality. If during this lifetime a person hasn’t started to Live, nothing will happen to him after the death of this physical body. Let’s take a cocoon in which a butterfly gets born. And so, a caterpillar has just pupated, and we take this cocoon and tear it apart. What will happen? Will the butterfly come out of it? There will be, pardon me, neither the caterpillar nor the butterfly anymore. This will be death. However, a human being is not a butterfly and not a caterpillar, right? Therefore, he should have,

first of all, freedom from the system itself. When it doesn’t eat him, when he spends this power of attention, the power of Life On coming into contact with the Spiritual World, when he sends his attention and his Love to the Spiritual World, he receives a hundred times more. This is accumulating in him, and it gives him true Life. We have already told in terms of physics as well, what the silver thread is, what the Soul is, what Personality is, how they merge, how it expands, and so on. But in actual fact, this is real Life.

That’s when there arise Love, joy, Life, and then there is an understanding… of at least who you are talking to. Even having met any person, you understand Who prevails in him, what demon, as it is said, well, this is his problem. If you can help — just help, whereas if you cannot (Zh: Right)… If a person doesn’t want it — it’s impossible to help him. Why? Because there is the freedom of a person’s choice. A person chooses whom to serve. Whether to be a goat for the system or to be equal among equals. Meaning, to

become a free being, or an Angel as they say in religions, to acquire (Zh: To live in Love)… in Love and joy, and in happiness. Or in envy, in selfishness… well, basically as the majority of us live (Zh: In the consumer…) in this world (T: People) (Zh: Yes), in a bunch of problems. Yes… You know, there was also a related question regarding attention, that a person sort of tries simply to live and redirects attention with all his diligence from day to day, he tries and applies... IM: There is no such thing. And here you already

say, "A person redirects with all his diligence" (Zh: …with diligence, yes, yes, exactly…) — and you even imitate like that (T: Like a drill, it drills his soul, yes), just like that he directs… Zh: When the question was asked, his attention must be actually squeezed (IM: Exactly, yes, yes, yes) into his soul (IM: Into the soul, right)... Zh: With all responsibility. IM: All this comes from consciousness, from the mind, and so he is who? A goat that tries to be milked to the very last drop, to give everything to the master. Well, this is really

so. Love isn’t gained through violence, that's in the first place. Again, when consciousness interferes in this process, precisely this intensification and substitutions take place. And so, again, people say, "How is that? I’m trying, but I feel bad, I have a headache, I am overstressed" (T: Pains in the chest, right). Well… how? Of course (Zh: Surely, yes… this compression), if there is physical violence, if consciousness uses, dictates, to the dictation of consciousness… Guys, well, for a start… Everything is simple, everything starts with you sitting down calmly, you get relaxed and look at what is in your

head: where thoughts come from and where they go, who sends them to you when you don't ask for this. Out of nowhere… a person is just sitting, not thinking about anything, he is relaxed… bang – there is a monkey in his head. Are you really a zoo that monkeys are running or hedgehogs are crawling in your head? Well, this is so. They live in pictures: friends, acquaintances who start chattering, whom you don't need now at all — and the person immediately forgets that he has sat down to sort of do some practice for learning. He’s

got carried away by thoughts, has gone to do something, and there is immediately a pile of things for him to do… Well, who… who hasn't faced this in actual fact? While the whole trick is that you sit down, you are sitting and observing. When you realise that thoughts aren't yours and you don't control them, you begin to understand: who are you then, if you don't control your thoughts? The first moment of separation appears — thoughts, flows that attack: aggressive and not aggressive. An understanding arises that this is what comes from the outer circle. What is

the outer circle? Secondary consciousness. Meaning, what comes from the outside, from the system. Assessment is, "But I feel myself, I perceive myself in this moment. I understand: a thought has come, and I’ve started feeling like… Chemistry has got activated, and I’ve started feeling uncomfortable and uneasy. It is clear who I am in this case. In this case, I perceive myself as primary consciousness." It is still attached to matter, there is an assessment, but there is an understanding that there is also an enemy. And exactly one of the first stages is to feel as Personality, who

you are as Personality, that you exist at all… not that "who you are" in general, but that you exist as Personality, that you are not consciousness. Then to feel that there is primary consciousness, and there is secondary one. However, in the beginning, the first thing we feel is secondary consciousness, aggression towards the primary one. We are still in the position of primary consciousness. Only afterwards we can perceive ourselves as Personality. But even from the position of primary consciousness, when we begin to reject the influence of the system itself from the outside, we already strengthen the

position of Personality. Not as much energy (the one that goes for our life) we… Again, one shouldn't mix up the energy… The fact that you ate a carrot with sausage — it’s all great, but it's energy for your car. Meanwhile you, as the driver of this car, have a different energy and eat in a bit of a different way. And in this case, this energy of life, the energy of attention that makes this car go to the right or to the left (which you have just filled with sausage and carrots) should be allocated correctly. Once

you have realised that there is also an external influence and have started to refuse it, to perceive, to limit it, you begin to understand: who are you beyond this? So, a simple option, the most banal simple option. When you feel and understand that you are, let's say, from the position of primary consciousness… Yet, what does it want? It influences the body, it controls, let's say, such elementary living processes. And you understand that it is limited intellectually, but there is also the one who watches it all, Meaning, you are the one who gives out this energy,

thanks to which there is both primary consciousness and secondary consciousness. And who are you then? And so… this "who are you?" — this is exactly the one to whom primary consciousness tells, shows, creates some life situation to the dictation of secondary consciousness. Because for us, the main sort of worldwide screen, or the screen of the whole world, where all the data flow comes from — it’s secondary consciousness. Primary consciousness is a child who… And many people feel like children who want to play: play with dolls, run around with a toy gun, play some shooting games,

despite the fact that they are already a grandmother or a grandfather — that's what primary consciousness is. As a rule, it remains at the level of development of a 5-6-year-old child, but behind this whole process there stands Personality. When you understand who you are, that's where the first, very first moments, very first steps on the spiritual path begin. Why? Because as Personality you can invest your attention in primary consciousness, in secondary one, or you can develop your spiritual nature. And as soon as you begin to allocate your attention as Personality — this is calm and

joyful, it’s without any pressure and violence, because the body has nothing to do with this. They say, "How is it that a person feels bad after a spiritual practice?" A person cannot feel bad or in any other way after a spiritual practice. This doesn’t affect the body in any way, because all processes take place outside the body, meaning, at the energy level already. And so, when you as Personality already begin to invest your attention, to distribute it: you give a little bit to consciousness, but more to the spiritual — what appears there? That internal warmth.

Not physical warmth, but the energetic one, let’s say, the one which is that very light, that very warmth that we, in order to somehow explain it in this three-dimensionality, We call it Love, happiness and many other similar synonyms for what is really wonderful. It is extremely difficult to describe it, it’s a full… a full range of colours. And everything that is the most interesting here just pales and turns grey in comparison with that feeling which the feeling of Life gives, right? And the more we develop this, the more free and independent we become from primary

and secondary consciousness. Ultimately, people achieve that… And it’s actually very simple, it’s absolutely not difficult. However, when, again, consciousness, even the primary one, interferes in this process as a prompter and as an “assistant” — this is already a trouble, while when the secondary one begins to dictate, then the person goes wherever. And here’s when trips to the middle of nowhere for no good reason Are undertaken in order to become spiritual and gain what? Power over others such as… And the following directive is set: “I need to rescue” — and here’s when people become very active.

Even while being 100% atheists, they run to rescue Virgin Mary, Jesus Christ or to help God. Well, what… well, we have come across this a lot, you listen to what people do… Yet, when you start talking, he doesn’t believe in God at all. The question is: why are you wasting so much time, sitting in some meditations, helping God to get free from the captivity of the devil? Well… well this is insanity, these are huge sects, pardon me, In which there are millions of people, and they spend time sitting in meditation and saving God. How? By

means of what? It’s the same as, well, just recently, because there was a big fire, there was also a people’s initiative: “Let's all together (Zh: …get together) perform a practice, get together spiritually (T: …visualise rain), and we will visualise rain…”, something else (T: Yes, right) (Zh: Yes-yes-yes, to ask…). Well, visualise a bag of money for yourselves and enjoy, or some sausage — will you get satiated with it or not? For as long as you are visualising, your mouth is watering, but once you open your eyes — there is nothing. The same is with… with your

rain, guys. Cameraperson: People start meditating to make it rain. And you see, there are also suggestions from people (we’ve seen that in social media) where they suggest directing love to the Earth or doing the Lotus Flower meditation in order to stop cataclysms. Again, all these pursuits come from consciousness to simply eat, pardon me, like freshly baked pasties, these people who are striving to help out of good intentions, but as a matter of fact act foolishly. No one will benefit from it except for the system itself. How is that, to perform “Lotus”, to practice “Lotus” in

order to… for the Earth, for instance, in order to evoke rain? Well, this means using a spiritual practice for magic. It’s… just ponder over this, it’s the same as taking an icon (I will put it… for those people who are pious, who are in Christianity), taking an icon and a holy cross and performing a magic ritual with them. Is this right? Well, I also believe that it’s absolutely wrong. Nonetheless, consciousness imposes on them and tells that “This is good.” Again, what do these people engage in spiritual development for? Do they engage in spiritual development or

in magic? A simple question. What prevails in them? An aspiration to possess metaphysical abilities in order to make it better for people? No. Because in the background, again, there is a desire to dominate others by means of these metaphysical abilities. Is this the right thing to do? What do they look for: Life or power over other people? This is what one should think about. Right? Whereas, stupid things should not be done. You'll waste your time, and the system will eat. While you are visualising, the system is getting full. T: It is eating life. Yes, when

the unit in general as community takes the spiritual side, That is, the positivity itself is beyond… In disobedience to the system, it refuses egoism — yes, miracles can take place here. However, when there are actually very few people, as it was suggested, “Let’s all together.” Who “all together”? A few people who are still quite shaky. Even more so, they will start visualising, doing magic, while it is nothing other than magic, isn’t it? Well, they will feed the system, and what's next? In order to influence these processes… I’m not saying that it’s impossible, but for that,

you need to be crystal-like yourselves and possess special techniques. Otherwise, you will just waste time and energy. Igor Mikhailovich, there is also such a modern spiritual trend concerning meditation: they recommend that people, in order to achieve this spiritual self-improvement… It sounds as follows, “Who you meditate on is who you become.” And it is recommended to choose a spiritual person for yourself, be it a highly spiritual person, a saint, God… And if at that he…? Wait, wait… For example (well, I’m not talking about myself, I’m talking in general), a young, tall, slender, handsome man, okay? And

he chooses some old, bald-headed, pot-bellied, ugly man as an ideal for himself. So what, does he have to shrink, go bald, and get fat? It is interesting, they say that one needs To cultivate the traits of this person in oneself (IM: Well, yes), think about him more often, think about him (Zh: To act following in his footsteps), yes, to think about God, think about saints — and then it is supposedly a way which brings you closer to self-perfection. IM: And then… And then the system will be sated, it will love you, it will exalt your

pridefulness and will say that you are also a saint, right? He wants the same thing, so that later on he also… While in actual fact, what is this? What is it called in Christianity? Simony. Tritely and simply, right? When Simeon desired to be loved like Christ, but at the same time doing absolutely nothing, not working on himself, What did he long for? Glory, he longed for people to kiss his hands. Well, he got what he wanted. Yet, what’s the point? Where is Jesus, and where is Simeon? You know, we’ve touched on the topic of fire

(T: Yes), about burning problems away, that now there is also, again, a trend where (T: Yes, burning problems out)… yes, people burn them, they just burn them out on paper, they write, they write down problems and burn them out as if getting rid of troubles. IM: You know, as a physician I understand: yes, there is a problem, an unwanted mole — we had it removed with a laser, burned it off, I understand that. But when a person has some kind of a problem, And by means of fire the person has written, well (T: He visualises

this burning)… A simple example: pardon me, a muffler in a car has burnt out. What is the right way for me to write, to visualise, what to pour on it, what kind of candle to use — the holy, sanctified or black-magic one… so that my muffler gets restored? Or should I go to a service station (Zh: …and fix it) and fix it? So, how to do it right? Zh: To fix it. So guys, everything that is material goes to the station and gets repaired. The same is with health: if something gets broken — come to

a repairman (to a surgeon), put a couple of bolts and go home. Well, if the doctor said, “Sorry, only to the morgue,” Then rejoice: either freedom is near, or something else. Well, depending on who, pardon me, and in which direction has been driving in this car, and what he has been doing. And this is inevitable. T: Also, in addition to this burning with fire, they say that it’s necessary to surround oneself with this impenetrable flame. But primordially, it was different… In order to protect oneself from people, to shield oneself from the system outside, it’s necessary

to surround oneself with a wall of some kind of impenetrable flame, supposedly this is protection… IM: …invented in one's head. Well, this is again… T: But in the original sense, something different was meant… IM: Well, surely, a different thing was meant. Yet, how does consciousness interpret all this, And what does it tell? And so, a person is sitting and fantasizing in meditation, in prayer, doesn’t matter. He is sitting and fantasizing that he is surrounded by a flame, and he feels this fiery heat that is burning him, and he is protected. From whom? From what? Well,

it’s a simple question. And what will it give him? Will it give him self-confidence and exalt his pride? Over whom? Over himself, not more. Because everyone else couldn’t care less about one another. Especially when such fire extinguishers gather (or what to call them?)… no, salamanders that live in fire. Well… T: Igor Mikhailovich, also returning to the point when a person should… when you were describing this first stage: to sit, to observe where thoughts come from… IM: Of course, here one needs to work, you see? (T: Yes.) Here’s real work, here’s observation indeed, but this is

not interesting to consciousness. And what do people face? The fact that consciousness begins to deny it, it’s not interesting, it provokes some emotions, all sorts of physiological… Well, primary consciousness gets activated immediately – A person needs to run somewhere urgently. It distracts you right away, and secondary consciousness gets activated. Once you are done with your urgent matters, it immediately drives you to the refrigerator, "Well, now you will eat a sandwich… Come on, while eating the sandwich, watch a programme on youtube about kittens." Well, and that's all, and the person forgets about practice, right? (T: Yes).

This happens quite frequently, guys, when people say, “Well, okay, okay, I will definitely start working on myself on Monday, I'll start a diary, I'll record my thoughts, I’ll start working on myself.” Everything is banal, that's how the system works. But it’s much easier to sit, to dream, and to fantasize, all the more there is no difficulty. In order for the system itself to let a person go… let him engage in spiritual so that he breaks free… While at the first stages, if the system controls a person completely, it’s extremely difficult for the person. He needs

some kind of a spiritual surge in order to take the first step. Afterwards, it’s important not to retreat so that the system doesn’t regain its dominance over him, and to develop constantly. Well, then he has a chance. In such a case, it’s much easier for the system to interest a person with things like: “You are sitting, a fire is burning around,” as you say, “only the flame is so impenetrable, and,” pardon me, “even microbes will not get through. You are 100% protected, you are doing everything…" T: Right, there is so much connected with this fire.

IM: There are several things: when someone is working, when water is flowing, and when fire is burning — you can look at this and stay idle all day long, right? I agree with that, you can look at fire for a long time – it is captivating. The water flowing is also interesting. The main thing is doing nothing at that. Well, that’s how stupid things are born, aren’t they? And who is to blame? The one who puts the shield down is exactly to blame. Right? If a person doesn’t put the shield down, a snowball won’t hit

his forehead. Zh: Well, yes, so it turns out that if you invest your attention in material life, the development goes towards the material. If you invest in the spiritual, then it goes… IM: Absolutely right. And here, returning to that fat, old, bald-headed teacher, what you liken yourself to (T: That’s what you become, right?) is what you will become. If you dream of material things, you will remain matter. But if you, pardon me, really strive for the spiritual, the system won’t be able to hold you. This is very easy, guys. All this is an illusion, any

material problems are an illusion, everything ends. The most terrible suffering and tortures, everything that the system can come up with here – everything ends. Because life is very short, it is one day, even less. It only seems to us that it is long, it flies by very quickly. No matter what state a person is in: the most painful, the most dreadful, the most horrible… — Everything will pass. But when he attains Life, that’s forever. And this is important. Even subpersonality is a temporary state. Well, of course, it’s a little longer than one day, than human

life… maybe, it depends on one’s luck. For someone it is hundreds, for someone it is thousands times longer, but it still passes, it still doesn’t last forever. Whereas Life is eternal. Therefore, it’s better to eternally be in joy and Love, in that which you can never get tired of. Well, there is another phenomenon, right? Consciousness always tells people, “Well, how is it being in joy, in Love? You’ll get tired of it”. Then why does everyone strive for it? Everyone is striving for joy, for Love, for what is truly real, for what is meaningful, but consciousness

says that you will get tired of it. So, to be bad, to worry, to suffer — you won’t get tired of it, right? It’s the same as “spirituality is tears, it is mourning for oneself, it is repentance for sins” and the like (Zh: Yes). And what is the worst sin? Serving satan. The worst sin is betrayal of God. There is no worse sin, because this sin is deadly. If you have betrayed God, if you serve satan, no matter what you imagine and no matter what your consciousness tells you, my friend, it’s a seal that cannot

be removed. But you are the one who puts it on, and you are the one who can remove it. It’s all in your hands. Zh: There is also the following question regarding true mission. There exist such delusions that people say, “If I do what doesn’t contradict my consciousness, if I do what I like and what I’m good at, I get pleasure from it, then it’s my mission, and it somehow influences my spiritual destiny, helps Personality to open up,” — and this is even like some characteristics of the soul. And is this information truthful for a

person? The most interesting thing is, again, we return to the topic of “the soul’s characteristic”. Again, how can Personality open up? Well, one should understand that in psychology the concept of “what Personality is” is far too broad, and it comes down to a person's individuality with his skills and the like. This is not an understanding of Personality as a human being, it’s a general characteristic of a person himself. And again, the characteristics of the soul… Well, what characteristic may a door have? The soul is a door, a door from this mortal world to that one,

to the immortal one. It has no characteristics… at least, in this world. And here "what doesn’t contradict consciousness", right? “There is no resistance,” it says. “If everything goes according to the plan, there is no resistance, there aren't any… well, pitfalls, — then this is your mission in life (Zh: Yes, it turns out that way), it's your destiny.” But what exactly? Well, for example (T: Everything that is mundane), there was… there was such an example that “If I cook well, I’m good at it, (T: Or I play soccer) when this brings me pleasure (T: Yes), right,

and I feel fulfilled through this, and it helps me, and this is sort of… it opens me up from the inside. That is, my Personality…” I'll put it this way, if this doesn’t prevent a person From gaining true Life, this is wonderful. Yet, far and wide, this happens quite the opposite way. That is, a person plays football, as you have said, well, or cooks perfectly, he is a cook or a football player. This is what he earns his living with or what he boasts about to others, that is, dominates someone. Again, why does a person

do this? In order to hear praise from someone, not to please someone or fulfill himself, let's say, in this world as… well, as a spiritual Personality, or something else, right? No. If this is pleasing to consciousness, This will always be with the aim of dominating someone, it will be so that someone envies and admires him, nothing more than that. That is, a person obtains, well, some kind of dividends here, let's say, from this world and receives a reward here. But if a person has received a reward here, then here with him it will remain. What

does this have to do with Personality and the soul, for instance? Again, a person can work in any profession. Whatever job he does, this cannot stop him from gaining Life Eternal, right? But if a person has a talent for example, for drawing, or a talent for laying railway sleepers… well, this is also a talent, let's say, to lay them straight And make sure that the train doesn’t go off the rails. Is this a talent? Yes, it is. Well, is that bad? That's great, that's wonderful. It doesn’t matter what a person does. If he is good

at it, if it doesn’t stress him out, that’s good. But if he wants and strives to do something in order to get a reward here (I don’t mean a monetary salary or something else, but I mean admiration, praise from people), and if he lives precisely for the sake of these very rewards, in order to be exalted, and he does that in order to be envied, well (T: Also...) (Zh: To be praised, yes, the question… to be appreciated, yes)... appreciated and praised, yes. Or "I don't care", right? “I cook, I cook just for myself, that’s how

I do it. I don’t need any praise,” he says. “Well… but still try it, have I made a delicious dish, no? — Yes?" He says, "Try, how… how is it? (Zh: “Isn't it really tasty?”) Really? Really tasty?” Yes? Well, again, what does a person want? Praise, nothing more than that. Also, Igor Mikhailovich, there is such a question that these… (IM: What does spirituality have to do with this?) right… that these abilities, that these talents… After all, what does the system say? That these are supposedly some individual talents, which are inherent in a certain Personality. No.

One should understand that Personality is a blank sheet, it’s an infant of whom anything may be cultivated. However, from a Personality, either a subpersonality or an Angel can grow. This is all a Personality is capable of. While everything else which is individual – all that is already the work of consciousness, again, physical characteristics of the body, and many other factors. Material and physical ones, I emphasize. If a person, for instance, well, that very anthropometry enables him to play basketball, he can fulfil himself as a basketball player. Whereas if he’s a dwarf, how can he fulfil

himself in basketball? However, he can fulfil himself in something else. So, there is nothing bad in this. But again, it should be understood that a human being is capable of anything. Here is the following little story from life… A long time ago, there was a country which no longer exists, and we used to live in that country… I had a friend who (well, thank God, I still have)… who was keen on studying, let’s say, things that were forbidden, half-closed at that time (well, they are still half-closed nowadays) – these are various methods of influencing people,

of what happens and how, including hypnosis. And his doctoral dissertation touched exactly upon, so to say, topics on the verge of metaphysics. And one of the sections was hypnosis and alteration of a human personality. However, in this case, personality was understood not as a person’s spiritual component, but personality is simply that which a person considers himself to be, or whom he considers himself to be (T: Modern psychology…). So, personality… for instance, “a football player is a personality”, a football player… let’s say, what does anything else have to do with this? And he and I, with

the guys’ consent, carried out certain experiments for his dissertation. Well, there were volunteers, let’s say, who participated in these experiments. Well, and here’s a simple example. A gym. We practiced, there were many people, we were engaged in oriental martial arts, in learning them. And the youth who had been training next To no time as it is said, well, they had primary skills, but they saw elder guys working, that is, their speed, technique, and all the rest. And so, when they were put into special states, the “altered states of consciousness” as it is said, and their

personality (I emphasize, not the true Personality, not that one, but what consciousness draws) was altered or substituted with someone from among those elder guys whom they regarded as idols, and they began to perceive themselves as those very guys. Their technique was absolutely indistinguishable. The speed, the technical performance, all the reactions – they were performing absolutely identically. Meaning, there was such a feeling as if they had worked hard for 20 years in the literal sense of the word. When they were driven out of this state, they became themselves again, the ones who had to work for

many, many years more. The question is: so, what do we work for if this skill is easy to master? Another example. The guys who, well, couldn’t put two musical notes together, when they were put into that state, they sang beautifully, Just splendidly, and with well-trained voices, well, at the professional level. After returning to this state again, consciousness told them who they were as “personalities” (in quotes), and again — no skills at all. As it is called, they couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket. That’s a simple example for you. T: In other words, consciousness actually

outlines for a person, yes, these… (IM: Limits him) limits and says that… IM: And all our endeavors and trainings are nothing more than reclaiming our territory in one skill or another. We spend our lives on this in order to acquire some kind of skill that can be obtained in six seconds. But all this is the material world; therefore, that’s how things work around here. T: A person simply believed his consciousness, that is, he admitted that it could be so, and he doesn’t move forward. IM: Absolutely right. Sure. Zh: You know, there is also an example

on this subject, when a person decided to multitask in a way. Meaning, “that's it, I’m taking this up: do this and do that…” and everything is done simultaneously. And everything seems to be… well, the attitude is as follows: “I will succeed, I will, so now I’m doing three tasks, I’ll add some more, and everything keeps working out.” And there is such a surprise: “How… how? (T: In such a Spirit, right.) Yes, how much time is needed for all this?” While consciousness pictured, “It’s impossible, you won’t handle it, it won’t work,” — but everything works out,

everything goes well, everything’s really done on time, everything gets done, done… And then one single thought that “Now if I take on one more task — and that’s it, and I won’t handle it.” And… and so it happened that one more thing is added (T: Everything falls apart) – and everything falls apart. IM: Again, restrictions from consciousness have come in. Well, you yourself have said the key phrase: the thought that “I won’t handle it — and everything will fall apart.” As long as the person acted from the Spirit, that is, contrary to the restriction imposed

by consciousness, everything works out well for him. As soon as there was an excess of attention that consciousness took advantage of (Zh: Yes, right away…), and it destroyed everything just like that (Zh: Yes, and…). Everything’s very simple. In fact, this is banal physics, guys, well, everything is really so simple. Zh: People are afraid that they have subpersonalities inside, meaning, it’s like they hinder them in their lives, how do they... IM: They can have various parasites inside. That’s when it comes to what they have inside. And again, if they perceive themselves as a body and like

everything else… Zh: Can subpersonalities be like?.. IM: Inside them? They cannot. Inside, there can be, guys, I don’t want to enumerate, well, anything from whipworms to lamblia, and everything else, the whole set. Zh: There is such a question that a person is kind of afraid of these manifestations of some sort, what supposedly affects him, whether this has an influence or not, that actually he… he notices… IM: Is consciousness not enough for him, or what? (Zh: Well…) More than enough. But if we talk seriously, that is, subpersonalities are absolutely in everyone (T: Who doesn't have them?)

in huge numbers, they are present in many people. Zh: For consciousness, it's like such a revelation that "everyone has subpersonalities". IM: Well, subpersonality has not only Personality, but also consciousness that could have lived God knows when. Subpersonality may simply be compared to that very computer which, excuse me, has picked up all sorts of parasitic programs in the absence of or with a bad antivirus. Well, again, if it has some skill or some power, I don't know, it was some sort of a priest, or the person seriously practiced magic in his time, possessed the skill of

accumulating power, energy – well, yes, he can manifest himself in life a little bit. We often encounter this when it is manifested in people. It’s exactly the subpersonality, the past life that manifests itself in the current life of people. Well, here it also depends on how we approach this. Zh: And can a person somehow use this manifestation to his benefit? IM: Not can, but should. Even if there is an active subpersonality, this means it can do something. And how is that, well, after all, it’s a treasure trove of additional opportunities. Zh: This gives it relief,

doesn't it, if there is a symbiosis? IM: To the subpersonality? Yes, of course, because it starts getting an investment of attention directly from the Personality. For it, it is the disappearance of a feeling of hunger, fear and more. In return, you can get from it great skills of someone else's whole life, well, this is also great. What’s wrong with that? (T: Here's also another thing…) One shouldn't be afraid of that (T: It was also asked…). One should be afraid… Again, if a person has a shield, he has absolutely no one to be afraid of. And

it doesn't matter who — subpersonalities, sorcerers, as they say, consciousness (Zh: Shadows), shadows… whoever attacks, the person is protected, because he doesn't perceive what he doesn't need — he lives by the Spiritual World, Love and joy, and happiness. Whereas, if someone manifests himself on his horizon, whom he can use to the benefit in serving the Spiritual World, it’s a sin to refuse it. Why? What difference does it make? On the contrary, it is interesting, even if the devil is forced to serve God. Well, that's great. Right? (Zh: Yes). And here, especially subpersonality — well, it's

something that possesses experience or a skill, but that which temporarily gets relief. Everything is honest, it’s a banal fair deal, so one shouldn't be afraid of it. But one should be afraid of becoming a subpersonality… another one in addition to this carrier, what we call the soul, because for the next Personality it will be even worse. T: There were also such questions like whose fear is the fear of death? (IM: Of primary consciousness). Is it subpersonality’s experience, Or is it consciousness that is afraid? IM: Secondary consciousness isn’t afraid of death, it is actually afraid of

Life. While the fear of death arises from primary consciousness, but to a greater degree and more often from subpersonality. The same is with unexplained states of claustrophobia and many other things. Well, let's not get into this (T: Well, yes, that it’s imprisoned), otherwise we will be accused of frightening people. Why? If it is interesting to our friends, we can expand on these topics in more detail. It's just that they need to be more widely expanded on in order to have understanding on the whole. So, guys, to Live is actually very easy and simple, and it's

wonderful, that's really wonderful. You just shouldn’t give the reins of control over your life into your enemy’s hands. And, excuse me, the system or what is called demons, well, whatever it is called, meaning, our consciousness is nothing but our enemy. It will never do anything good for people, because it’s a milking machine of the system itself, in the literal sense of the word. That's why, what is the first thing to be done? To protect ourselves (Zh: Yes), meaning, to study how that very shield works. Right? T: Yes. By the way, Igor Mikhailovich, concerning the shield,

people realise that the system is hostile to Personality, and they are ready to fight it, and they understand (IM: Well, yes) that they need fortitude of spirit, that they need this belligerence. And immediately the qualities get activated… IM: As soon as belligerence appears, as soon as you are in the mood to fight, what arises immediately ? The system’s power over a person. And the person starts playing at spirituality. He doesn’t live by the spiritual. He plays. You’ve just mentioned the fact that it's simply demons that manipulate a person, that it is consciousness (IM: Of course).

And such a notion… regarding the question that one can turn demons against the system itself. Not can, but should. T: In the previous programme, it was mentioned (Zh: Yes): they really ask themselves, yes… Yes, they wonder: how to do this? How to do it so that demons don’t command you, but simply perform a task, meaning, so that consciousness performs the task that you have set for it? What does this mean in practice: to turn demons against the system? For a person, for his understanding. Okay, let's explain it this way. There is a wolf from a

pack. Whom will he serve: a human (a hunter) or the pack? The pack, because he is loyal to it (T: Right). He’s a part of this pack, and he will do everything possible for a pack to live well, right? However, he wants to eat. If you isolate him from the pack and don’t feed him, while feeding him only for doing what you want and when he does what you want, what will happen to this wolf? He gets trained. Everything is simple. The same is with consciousness. If it goes against you, no matter what it tells

you and what arguments it suggests, if you don’t support this and don’t feed it, it will calm down. And when consciousness starts giving you what you need, making those decisions which you need, that’s what attention is paid to. So, it is very simple. When we limit it in food And in implementation of those desires that the system imposes on us… In order to impose some thought on us, to form it, the system spends energy. Well, as we have already mentioned today, and we mentioned this many times before as well, it spends a little in order

to get a lot. Meaning, it has sent us a thought, for example, that our friend has looked at us the wrong way, and it starts expanding it. It shows some picture, some memory – we yield to this, we begin to listen to this attentively as Personality. Whereas, if we look, just carefully observe ourselves, then it happens exactly this way. Meaning, consciousness has attracted us with a thought, we have invested attention, and it begins to unfold it further and retrieve everything bad related to this friend of ours (T: Right). It doesn’t show good things, doesn’t enter

into dialogue, it blames, and such a coolness arises in us towards this person. However, we should understand that all consciousnesses are interconnected through the system itself. Eventually, the person feels our coolness towards him, and he begins to manifest the same coolness towards us. What happens? We get convinced, and consciousness tells us, “Look, do you see what kind of an attitude he has towards you?” Gradually, all this turns into some… from coolness to animosity, and we become whom? Enemies. T: Without talking to each other, yes. IM: As simple as that. And this is extremely beneficial for

the system. Why? Especially if this friend and I, well, have become keen on something spiritual or something interesting, or have decided to do something… well, to engage in something that the system doesn’t like. It will divide us and will manipulate both of us. And the whole point is exactly in putting even the demon in service, in service to the Spiritual World. How is this done? By means of control. And I’ll repeat, at least 80% of attention Is spent on not losing contact with the Spiritual World: on Love, joy, on this happiness – this is what’s

being sent inwards. Not physically, not by means of mind, but exactly from Personality to the soul, directly. Or rather through the soul to the Spiritual World. Well, it’s the same as we… Let me give… This is a wrong example, but 80% of the time, we direct the light of a torch through a door to the darkness in the next room. Well, just like that, so that there also… the light would go there. Eventually, we will receive much more light from there, a hundred times more than we are sending there. While the remaining 20% of our

attention, or of that very light, We distribute very carefully and selectively on what the system imposes on us: we want this, we don’t want that. Later on, this is brought to the point when it becomes tame and obedient, it fulfils everything, and we see that it begins to suggest to us, just like we’ve now mentioned, that it throws a thought in, we are doing 5 tasks simultaneously, everything is working out fine, we want to take a sixth one, but consciousness says, “You won’t manage.” And we listen to this – and everything falls apart for us.

So, when it begins to suggest some insertions to us, hence, what do we take? More (T: Even more loads)… We cut down even more on its food supply, right? Meaning, we already allocate not 80, but 90 percent to our contact with the Spiritual World, To Life, to joy, to what is really eternal, what is really valuable, what we are here for – to the attainment of Life. While 10% is allocated to the existence here. The system gets into such (well, in this case, by the system I mean our consciousness… as a part of the system)…

consciousness gets into such inconvenient conditions, while it exists owing to the fact that we feed it. If we stop feeding consciousness, the system will stop supporting it. Hence, it’s much more beneficial for it to betray its master and start serving us, those who feed it. That is why, guys, there are so many traitors in this world, because everything is duplicated fractally. A person is on friendly terms with someone, but when some greater benefit arises for him, he ceases to be friends with some people and starts being friends with others, and that’s it, and immediately sort

of… “How come? Such a good person, We were such good friends with him, but he went and betrayed me.” Why? A greater interest appeared, selfishness, pridefulness. He wanted to possess what you possess, for example. Well, he will betray you and get what he wants, but won’t gain joy afterwards. Well, that’s actually afterwards. For him, the very joy is to become like you, because he thinks that someone is happier. That’s exactly how consciousness is driven into a corner, meaning, by cutting down attention for it. This is very simple. And eventually it is forced to serve the

Spiritual World, to obey Personality, and to confront the system itself – there is no way out. T: Great! You have just answered the question which people had (Zh: Yes, exactly) regarding “How to make consciousness starve?” IM: And I will tell you: it is trained much faster and easier than a bear is trained to ride a bicycle. There, one has to make an effort, while here it’s simpler. Here, just don’t give anything. With a bear, you should give and deal with it sort of carefully so that it doesn’t bite, right? Whereas here, it’s just “I don’t

accept this, I take that. I like this: pack and put it down for me, I’ll pay for this. As for that – no, take it back.” And that’s all. Setting the limits. Zh: Great! Also, regarding limitation, people often ask a question “I’ve been trying to get rid of excess emotions, and it has become so that I completely cease to be emotional and to react in any way”, that is, completely… T: A total control of emotions. Coolness towards everything… Zh: Total control, yes. IM: There is no such thing. This doesn't exist. This happens, again, to the

dictation of consciousness itself, and it imposes these states of lack of emotions, “high spirituality” and the like. What does lack of emotion mean? Emotion is a reflection, yes, a reflection of what you have accepted. And what have you accepted this from? If you accept this from the Spiritual World, let’s say, then involuntarily, there is an overflow with joy and happiness of the Personality itself, And there is a message to primary consciousness, since it’s like a child, it will rejoice. Anyway, this… it engulfs you physically as well. Again, if you accept a directive from consciousness, something

bad, something negative, it begins to press on you, you will have an emotion, seething, transmission, again, from one to another, like a virus, from something bad. Well, we have a continuous game with consciousness. However, there is one of the functions of emotions — this is a zero state, let’s say, sort of a zeroing out, when there are no emotions at all. But it devours even more than any emotion (T: Control of this) because a person spends his attention on not having that which is actually natural, let’s say, for a human being. The only question is

what you accept and from whom. If you live like a beast, you’ll be guided by bestial emotions. If you live the life of an Angel, let’s say, like you said, yes, a person likens himself to someone, takes an example… Well, if you live and liken yourself to someone, then you need to liken yourself to an Angel And live like one, that is, to love, love God (T: With feelings), to feel, to Live. The most important thing is to start Living. While everything else will follow. And that’s what we should strive for instead of copying some

material object with its habits, gaits, hairstyles and the like. Zh: There is also such a question about emotions: well, about laughter, about laughter and joy. You have now answered, but there are such misconceptions that joy is, kind of, always appropriate. If you rejoice… well, as the second side, that joy is, you know, like… there is some kind of conversation about the spiritual, some serious things are discussed that really can help Personality to become free… And here someone laughs stupidly, right? Zh: Yes, yes. As if he bursts out laughing, like… T: The system is exactly like

a mockingbird, yes… Well, surely, yes. It’s the same as when people bury a close person, “while someone, as they say, is having fun, dancing, and laughing,” yes? Well, this is somehow indecent. The bounds of decency, again, the observance of them — well, these are cultural and moral things, first of all, and again, self-control of the very person, where something is appropriate and where it’s inappropriate. However, consciousness plays a cruel joke, it sometimes foists stupid things. And precisely for that we need a shield so that stupid things do not pass, meaning, to primarily learn to control

the very consciousness. Well, actually, there is a question here: to control consciousness or to evolve as Personality? Here it’s… That’s interesting because, after all, in these spiritual teachings, the first step, as they say, is to clear your consciousness, complete control of your thoughts. And if you haven’t done this, if you don’t have it yet, then you cannot move forward along some steps of spirituality… Zh: You still have a long, long, long way to go... You are so far away. Yes. And people spend their entire lives: a lot of literature, a lot of these retreats, a

lot of everything in order to keep consciousness in purity, to control the flow of thoughts. And what does “consciousness in purity” and “control the flow of thoughts” mean? You cannot control the flow of thoughts in any way. You can either accept thoughts or not. Well, for anyone: just sit down, relax (I’m coming back again to this) And look into your head, what is creeping into it. You don’t order it, but there is a continuous stream. It's a swarm of bees, with one flying in, ten flying out, how do they do this… it’s… Well, isn't that

so? And do I have to control these bees, count them, wash their feet or what? Why do I need them? If I need some kind of a bee, I’ll take it, but if I don’t need it, let it fly further, those are its problems, let it look for another flower. One should grow as Personality. Т: Yes, that you… that people’s attention should be not on this, yes… Well, of course. "Control of thoughts." Not control of thoughts, but exactly control of perception: what you put your attention into. That’s where control should be: what you implement and

what you don't implement. It's like, well, we've already talked about it — a radio receiver. Indeed, nowadays a lot of different programmes of different radio stations are being broadcast simultaneously, but the receiver always chooses one. So… this fine-tuning is… If you want to listen to quiet music, why do you turn on rock, right? Whereas in the head… a lot of stations are working at the same time. Well, you choose what you need, and listen. Well, it’s just an example. What is positive, what is useful, is… well, the system doesn't always impose bad things. It is

just busy with everyday life, with a lot of problems, and sort of casually it inserts some bad things about you, about your friends. Meaning, it has "divide and conquer, belittle" and at the same time "strive to dominate everyone". That is, the directives are so typically monkeyish, I would say, bestial. Well, actually it is all calculated and observed very simply and easily, and it’s just as easily limited and kept away from oneself. It simply doesn't bother you because it's not yours. Bees flew in and passed by. Well… Well, if we count every single one, control it,

write down where it flies, what it’s like (T: Examine, yes?)... — well, life won’t be enough. Why examine and admire that which doesn’t belong to you, and that which is harmful to you? Right? T: Yes. IM: Everything is very simple. Zh: Yes. Just one more thing about consciousness likening itself to the spiritual, meaning, it always wants to liken itself to the spiritual. And there was such an example when a girl says, “I wrote a message, and it’s like… consciousness immediately starts judging: how spiritual is the message I wrote? And how will the others respond to

it? Meaning, whether I’ll be praised or not (T: To get into a group of the chosen ones), whether they will think about me that I’m spiritual…” IM: That’s exactly what we are talking about. If she lets these thoughts in and implements them, then what kind of spirituality can we talk about here? This is just for show, meaning, she wants to seem to be that way. Well, then she should express herself correctly, “How spiritual do I look in the eyes of that person? Because, pardon me, I engage in simony, I don’t want to be a spiritually

free Personality. I want to look like a spiritually free Personality so that I am envied, so that I’m admired.” Well, isn’t that so? For goodness sake, there are many religions — go, put on those clothes, and serve. T: There is also an interesting question about working on oneself, “Is it enough to simply love?” Maybe, you'll read the question? That would be interesting too. IM: It depends on what to love and whom to love, and how to love (Zh: It’s just the question is…). We have already discussed in detail more than once what love is. And

now, “enough to simply love.” A simple question: to love what? Semolina? Or, pardon me, another person? T: Without studying the work of the system. Z: There is also… right. There is also such a… such a question that, without studying the system, without refusing what consciousness offers, simply to toss everything aside and to throw yourself completely into love. How helpful is that in fact? IM: Into what love? It’s helpful. If one tosses everything aside and throws himself into love in the earthly understanding, this will help a doctor purchase a new car when he will treat your

hepatitis C in the best case scenario, if you are lucky. But if it’s AIDS, doctors can also make a lot of money on that. It will be helpful to them. Yet, what about you? Have I answered? T: And in the spiritual sense, it means without studying the system. IM: And in the spiritual sense — you have to work hard. If you don’t know the enemy, then how?.. Well, here’s a simple example, once again, I’m going back to the simplest things, guys, please forgive me, Going back to the most basic: there is consciousness which constantly attacks

and sets you up. If you don’t know how it does that, then it will manipulate you, it will make you, pardon me, throw yourself into love… well, make the most of life, strive to dominate over everyone – those are its directives. Yet, why do you need this? Well, a simple question. Why do you need everyone to love you? What does it mean “everyone loves me”, and what kind of love is that? Is that when they tell this to your face, but in reality, they envy and hate you? For instance, we have a bunch of performers

whom everyone loves. However, let’s sort this out, let’s take a person and analyse. Now, what does he love? No. Women, for example, love a man’s image. Women want to possess him, want him to serve them, to obey them. They hate everyone who is near him, and hate him because he’s not with them. Well, isn’t that so? And their entire love is based on what? On hatred. Let’s take the other way around, and we see the same thing. A woman is an idol, while a man is an admirer. He wants to possess her, wants her to

make him scrambled eggs in the morning and to run around wearing a bikini. If she doesn’t do this, well, that’s it, sheer hatred, but at the same time there is attachment and fantasies. Well, that’s how consciousness works. If you don’t throw this mess of the system out of your head, well… But for this, one has to practice, to work hard. T: To study it, right. IM: Guys, spirituality is, first and foremost, work, work on oneself. If you work to the dictation of consciousness, you will memorize many volumes of various literature, which won’t bring you any

closer to Life, you see? And this is true. T: I also have another question regarding when people cannot start, meaning, Exactly in the sense that (IM: Start what?) they are constantly studying… Zh: You know, it’s like consciousness wants it all and right away. T: To know right away… IM: Consciousness does everything: it distracts, attracts, makes one go devil knows where and look for whoever… — do everything possible instead of really begin to Live. Why? Because, once again, it provides food… Like, if a goat stops eating, because it started thinking about the spiritual and stops giving

milk, a good owner begins to feed it with various herbs, juicy apples, cabbages, carrots, well, so as to get back the appetite and to get milk back for himself. T: That’s interesting. IM: Well, isn’t that so? T: It is. IM: For the system, we are the goat. And until you understand that you are not a king or God, all the more not a co-creator with God, but just a goat for the system… While Life has to be earned. Until you start working, you will gain neither freedom nor anything, You will remain in the illusion. No

matter what religion you belong to, whatever you do, wherever you… whatever you read, if you don’t start working on yourself, nothing will work out. But working on oneself… again, the system says, “To get up at 5 o’clock in the morning, do 3 push-ups…” T: Discipline… IM: Yes. “Put on white slippers or grey ones, and don’t you confuse them!” Well, and… and a whole bunch of nonsense and conventions that have nothing to do with spirituality. It doesn’t matter how you dress, what you do, whether you stand on your head or not — these are all earthly

and empty matters. But if you don’t control your consciousness, it controls you, and since it controls you — it’s 100% a subpersonality, no matter what anyone does. Zh: Well, there is also such a desire to get a result instantly. Meaning, a person… IM: Certainly (Zh: Yes). This comes from the system (Zh: Yes, yes). Again, consciousness always says to receive everything and instantly (Zh: Yes). It says, “Miracles exist. After all, this is God, He is capable of anything. And if… Well, moreover, He owes you, because He is your father.” Right? “If you have decided to become

spiritual, everything should be given to you instantly.” In fact, no one owes you. Until a person understands, no one owes anything to anyone in this world. This is actually true. No one owes you anything, nor do you owe anyone. But if you want to Live, in this case, pardon me, the system is powerless. However, you should simply work on this — calmly and quietly just go ahead and work (Zh: Yes, well…) Everything starts with acquiring a shield, and then you pick up a whip or a sword, well, whoever likes what. There are people who are

able to actively resist the system itself, so that it is easier for others to breathe. Yet, there are those who take the whip, begin to train the system itself and force their consciousness to serve the Spiritual World. That's also fine, it’s not bad either. It’s all great, but you need to work for this. You may be lazy, you may dream, and you may do nothing, but when the system dominates you — you have lost, while the bet is Life. Is it worth playing poker with someone who sees the cards? I wouldn’t play — it is

pointless. Because he sees the cards, and he is the one who deals them out. T: It’s a very interesting comparison. Right. IM: Well, yes. He will cheat anyway. Any game… All these are earthly conventionalities. Yet… T: This scenario is really programmed in people, right? So, the system… IM: The system has a programmed scenario for every person’s life. T: Everyone is given a role. IM: Absolutely. A person plays his role, which is actually very easy to change. But the question is not about the role which he plays. Even remaining in this role, a person is able

to gain Life without any resistance at all. Well, you were given a talent, let's say, to sing? So sing, no problem. You were given a talent to embroider — just keep embroidering. Someone wasn't given anything except sweeping the floors. So, what's bad about that? What difference does it make — to sweep, to wash or something else… It doesn’t matter what a person does, it’s important what kind of a person he is inside, and what he strives for. And if a person as Personality wants to, he will definitely gain Life, the system won’t be able to

oppose him. But if he doesn’t want to, he will listen to fairy tales, again, megalomania and everything else. In fact, he commits that which betrays God, betrays those ideals which he aspired for. He will seek freedom in the external, he will see enemies among friends and helpers, he will spit on icons in churches, saying that he’s above that. Well, don't such things happen? There will be everything except Life. Therefore, everything is simple: you roll up your sleeves and go ahead. Right? T: Great! Zh: Yes. There is also a question regarding the fact that consciousness doesn’t

let a person into a spiritual practice. Well… it says that “You’ll get spiritual experience — and after that you start, sort of, feeling bad.” IM: Wait, wait. Well, here, well… I'm sorry for the laughter, friends. But… well, how is that: consciousness and a spiritual practice? Well, these are incompatible things. You cannot squeeze the material into the non-material. Well… it won’t work out. Therefore, consciousness cannot dictate to a person. If consciousness dictates to a person, doesn’t let him into a spiritual practice, then this person should work at the level of meditative practices or prayer practices —

it doesn't matter, but not spiritual practices, because consciousness manipulates him. And he is already trying to engage in spiritual practices — so nothing will work out for him. And at this point, indeed, after an attempt to perform a spiritual practice to the dictation and under the control of satan himself over this person (well, of his small nefarious demons), performing of a spiritual practice won’t bring any benefit. At best, he will get an illusion, at worst — a deterioration in his state of health, which then again these demons will poke at and say, “Look, here you

are performing some kind of practice, and you are feeling worse and worse and worse.” Yet, it will be so indeed — worse, worse and worse, because they control and guide him. How can a person perform a spiritual practice… Spiritual practice is, let’s say, a close individual relationship of a Personality with the Spiritual World, where there is no place for anything material and anyone material, let alone consciousness, while consciousness is trying to lead and control this process, you know? (Zh: Yes.) Excuse me, well, it’s the same as… just imagine: a wedding night, and the mother-in-law helps

the groom to fulfill his conjugal duty, standing over him with a candle. This is absolutely the same (Zh: Well, there is also…). Well, everyone has their own morals, someone may like that. Well, this won't lead to anything good. There is also such a thing that it says that “when you open up, when you break away from consciousness, you’ve completely opened up — and such a good surge has started, such a good filling up, whereas after that there is as if a fall into The animal wave, into consciousness." IM: Absolutely. So, it's enough for a person

to get inspired — he gets a certain freedom. We have already talked about it, too. And what happens next? (T: It's getting stronger…) There comes a wave of attack from the system. Why? A simple example, let's go back to our goat again, I beg your pardon, friends. The goat has jumped over the fence, and it has tasted grass and leaves around, which are in abundance, it sees an endless forest, it… its mouth just starts watering. Here, its master comes running and says, "Come on! Where are you going?!" He grabs the goat and holds it on

a rope even tighter. Why? Because otherwise it will run away. And from now on, he won't be just holding it behind the fence, he will tie it up so that the goat won't steal from him. But in fact, if we look at this from the system’s standpoint, we rip it off when we strive for the spiritual. And when people attain Life, well, they actually steal a goat from the system in the literal sense of the word. And even more, many people not only begin to go away, but, you know, how it is that… the goat

itself escaped, and then it comes back running and pulls others out. Well, this is too much for the system. T: The goat has found a route. Well, of course, this can make it go bankrupt. Of course, it’s outraged. T: Yes (Zh: Here exactly…). At that, what a mean influence the system has, After all, it throws in thoughts to people in order to stop them completely in this aspiration to Live, these are thoughts of betrayal, that the more you fill up, you will definitely not be able to hold on to this position or move deeper. Zh:

Fear arises. T: Yes. It stops you exactly by fears. Yes. A fear of making a mistake. Yes. Zh: A great fear to fail and get these, well... provocations from the system. It turns out that he becomes very scared to even start a practice, because he’s already waiting for the consequences of his opening-up… T: He's waiting, and it will happen. Yes. Zh: Yes. Well, again, what he strives for, what he wants (T: Yes), that's what he gets. If a person buys it for himself and, literally, an idea comes to him, He perceives it, meaning, he pays

for it with a part of his Life. He buys fear to do this practice. But he has actually paid for it. You know, it's like in a joke, when someone accidentally bought soap instead of ice cream and said, "Soap or not soap, the money is paid, so you have to eat it anyway." Yes? Well, this is the same. If you bought, excuse me, what wasn't good, well, use it, wear it. Well, what kind of person in his right mind buys his shoes one size smaller? Just a simple question. Yet, we do that. We pay for

the failure of a spiritual practice before the spiritual practice. So, what will happen? Will it work? A simple question. No, of course not. Consciousness must not interfere with a person's spiritual development, it absolutely mustn’t. And then everything will be fine. Also, Igor Mikhailovich, there is such a question, it concerns people in their daily life, and, basically, arises in people who are following the spiritual path, relating to the fear of jinxing something. Often, there are people who share openly, and there are people who don’t give any information, because, supposedly, for them to share is to give

away a part of something. But the way it manifests itself spiritually is that people are afraid of sharing their experience of perception through feelings, because supposedly at this moment it gets lost, they are afraid to talk about the tools that work against consciousness, Because supposedly these tools stop working for them, or against the system, against consciousness. And so, it turns out that people just kind of keep all this quiet, you know, like… something that could help someone else. IM: Well, again, let's go back to the principle: what you buy is what you get. Well, this

is so. All fears and everything else – again, who dictates this? The same actors on the stage from consciousness. And what does a person do? He simply perceives it as his own. When a person shares what he feels with another person, is it really taken away from the person? After all, how consciousness draws it… IM: When he shares his experience of perception through feelings? T: Yes. Well, how can it?.. If a person really gets a spiritual surge, he cannot help sharing it because it overwhelms him. You know, it's like we take a balloon and fill

it with water, but if we tie it, it will burst (and the pressure jet is sufficient). While if you just hold it, it will be overflowing, it will be big, but won’t burst. Of course, a person will not burst because of the spiritual, but in order to have at least some associative perception of why a person, when spiritually filled, involuntarily shares it. Why? Because one cannot keep Love in oneself, because this feeling is Life, it is happiness that you just want to share. It's a common happiness, it's not your personal happiness, it's… you are a

part of this happiness. And you understand very well that in every person there is the same Personality, In every person there is a Soul as a part of the Spiritual World, and every person can become an Angel. Well, this is really so. Therefore, precisely this desire to share this happiness — this is to awaken the same happiness both in yourself and in another person, to awaken the same happiness in him. It’s a need. Well, the system also has a similar need. When a person is under the control of the system itself, lies, evil, and the

like predominate in him, which he also easily shares and infects others with this nasty thing, taking up the masses. Isn't that right? So, the system duplicates a lot of things, But again, it distorts and changes the signs from the Alive to the dead. Here's another question. Consciousness confuses a person regarding whether he has made a choice or not. So, he is sitting and thinking, "How do I know if I've made a choice or not?" IM: He hasn't. And I will put it this way: he has not. When a person it sitting and thinking, "Have I

made a choice in terms of the spiritual: to work on myself or something else, some service or something else?" Well, what kind of service is that, if a person is sitting and thinking about it?! That is, consciousness decides everything for him. This is an inner need. If a person feels that he’s not a monkey, pardon me, If a person feels that he is pressed in and limited here, and that this world is like, well, like a matrix, an illusion and so on, if he has a hard time breathing here (T: Honestly)... Yes, when he is

honest with himself, and when he sees that something he doesn't want is being imposed on him: these are not his thoughts, these are not his desires, these are not his emotions, but he’s being manipulated, he’s being used as… as a biorobot. And if a person doesn’t want this, but exactly aspires to freedom, aspires to Life, and he acts in this direction — it means he has made the choice, it means he is going. Whereas, when he is sitting and thinking, he hasn’t done anything and isn’t going anywhere. He is sitting on a sofa and dreaming

just as he has done before, and actors on the stage are philosophizing about all this instead of him. And nothing will change for him, while he sits on the couch and listens to how his life and destiny are decided for him. Isn’t that so? Everything is simple. Also, the system often tells people that “well, certain manifestations of the system are a result, let’s say, of your past mistakes” and imposes this sense of guilt on people. Is this always so? One of the tools is that it imposes a sense of guilt, humiliation, and all the rest.

If a person starts his spiritual path, let’s say, What do we come back to, first and foremost? To the shield. It is an understanding that everything that is in the world, everything that a person does in this world is imposed on him by his own consciousness. It’s up to him what he chooses — good or bad. However, when a person didn’t know that and had no skill, he was just a manipulation in the system’s hands. Meaning, this is a remote-controlled toy, you know: wherever you turn it is where it goes. The same is with a

person: he lived in society, played his role, like a goat on a leash, there are many of them, maybe a whole goat family. And so, they are… on leashes, running, living, it seems to them that everything is fine and good, But they don’t understand that their fate is exactly in the hands of the owner. Isn’t that so? The same is here. While what should be done? What should you do, my friends? A simple question. Just a simple answer, guys: give up being he-goats and she-goats — you have to become free people and live a life

worthy of a human. Igor Mikhailovich, there are questions here, but they already concern the invisible world. Such states as people describe, when someone in their family asks them, “What are you thinking about?” – Then they understand that they are in some state of thoughtlessness or non-thinking about anything. That is, they don’t know how they get into this state, meaning, it happens not as a result of some personal choice of theirs… IM: No choice, nothing… What kind of states are these? People happen to be in these states, which sometimes people don’t even know about. Far and

wide people remain, you know, like an empty glass on a table, just like an object in society, he can even be doing something, but he’s not Living and he’s not here. This happens when there is a disconnection between Personality and primary consciousness, or when there is a disconnection between secondary and primary consciousness while secondary consciousness dominates, substantially dominates, When the system is saving on people. This is manifested far and wide nowadays,ы and unfortunately it will be increasing. We’ve already mentioned that the system starts saving, and it is saving on many things. And in the recent

years, this has been increasing particularly. Well, not just in the recent years, it’s in the last decades that this is increasing more and more, whereas nowadays all this is often… And so people themselves can notice that it’s like being plugged out of a socket, he’s just sitting like a robot on recharge. T: He has been participating in a conversation – and abruptly, there is just sort of a restart. IM: And he hasn’t understood anything. T: How he has got in this state, right? IM: Absolutely right. Meaning, fragments of time fall out. They are simply being

saved on. This is… well, as for me, it’s actually offensive that even the system is saving on you. Hence, even the system doesn’t respect you. Perhaps, it’s such a compliment from the system… IM: Is this really a compliment? It’s the system’s absolute control. It is not afraid of Personality’s domination. Some people just hope that, after all, this is a good fall-out into some good spiritual state. That is, something… something that consciousness doesn’t detect… I.M: What kind of spiritual is it…emptiness? It’s… No, wait. The fact that a person is under control – he is under control,

100 percent. He is nowhere and in no way. It’s an absolute zeroing-out. It’s not as we mentioned, for instance, Emotional surges, when a person controls so that there are no surges, such a… he drives himself to some zero state, neither for the better nor for the worse. While here, he totally falls out. He was sort of thinking about something, but he doesn’t remember about what. That is, he’s like a robot plugged out of a socket. So, what is good about this if he lives like a robot, if his master is, pardon me, a written program?

What is spiritual here, and where is spirituality here? Igor Mikhailovich, as for such phenomenon as “a dream within a sleep”. That is, how does it actually function? What happens from the perspective of the Knowledge? This is also interesting, right. Especially when a person wakes up in a dream and realises that it’s a dream, He continues dreaming, he understands, but cannot get out, and there begins God knows what. This is… Well, if we consider the mechanism itself, a dream starts being actively manifested, especially a dream in a sleep – it’s when secondary consciousness has a direct

influence on Personality through primary consciousness which is partially non-functioning, that’s when primary consciousness freezes. And then Personality perceives the nonsense which is coming from secondary consciousness, while it is often absolutely alogical, meaning, there isn’t even any logic in how it is built. And when primary consciousness starts awakening, coming back and taking its major positions under control, here a person is already aware that he is sleeping, but he cannot get out of it. Until something happens so that… or he invests maximum attention already, or he says “stop” as Personality, or until he invests maximum attention in

order to break this chain. These are interesting states as a matter of fact. It often happens that people get into them like into a vicious circle and start directing it all to magic and to whatever. While this is actually physics, all this is trivial. By the way, also one of the system’s tricks is exactly people’s interest in magic Or, on the contrary, intimidation (IM: …with magic, yes). And, in particular, intimidation… Fears that arise, yes (T: Yes), upon materialisation of creatures of the invisible world, or… T: Right, this is also interesting. Can an invisible creature materialise

itself? And does it really sit in the darkness in every house? Well, again, let’s begin (Zh: Right) with the fact that there are lots of these creatures, like fish in the ocean, and they vary. And “to materialise themselves”…, do all of them actually materialise, or what? There are those who possess an ability of materialisation, possess an intellect, and so on. They are, so to say, spiritualized, but not soul-filled, this should also be understood, they don’t have a soul. However, if they spend energy, And there has to be quite an enormous energy for materialisation of subtle

material structures, for them to materialise themselves. There are skyfish, banal physics works there, they draw ions, well, ionised… okay, that… let’s skip skyfish, otherwise we will digress from the topic, pardon me, friends. If they materialise themselves to a denser component, such a component that begins to reflect light, or on the contrary, to absorb it, and we can see this visually, then we should understand – there is an enormous energy expenditure. If a creature, and it has to be an intelligent one, since it does so, it does so and can manage these energies, Hence, it has

come for a reason, it has come to terrify you in order for you to be scared, to be attached to it, to recall it, to invest attention in it, meaning, to keep feeding it (T: …for long). It has come in order to spend 10 cents, but to take at least a dollar from you in return. Can they do physical harm, or only such psychological harm to Personality? Well, let’s say, they can affect even physically, but these are very weak influences. They can get stronger only when you invest attention in them. It’s a simple mechanism. If

you experience fear, looking into a shadow, just a shadow, you feel… While people do feel, actually many people feel these creatures, It is felt even as chill inside, well, and various manifestations of such kind, let’s say, of this metaphysics around you. If a person starts fearing and investing attention in a shadow, and something begins to materialise itself from there, well, it means you have already put in enough energy for it to get materialised – then you may expect anything. If you continue being afraid of it, it can also start affecting you physically so that you

fear even more. Well, this is elementary, in order for you to pay as much as possible for your… Well, generally speaking, what you buy is what exists. If you walk… a shadow – well, there is a shadow, it lives – well, it just lives. You pass by a river, a crucian lives there, are you afraid of it, or what? There is also a toothy pike, but you are walking along the bank. The same is here. Don’t think about anything bad – and it won’t get materialised. People also have such fear, precisely the fear of mirrors,

too (IM: Of course). To what extent is this actually justified? Should we fear?.. Again, everything is very simple. Looking in a mirror, if you see your reflection, if you admire or enjoy it, well, or you feel disgust, well, depending on who is looking in the mirror, for example, then nothing bad will happen. But if you are looking further and deeper, and you start playing from the perspective of investing your attention, then you can, well, let’s put it this way… There is such an impression “to lock the system in on itself” — then there will be

trouble. That shouldn’t be done. One shouldn’t play with mirrors. Mirrors are intended for you to be able to admire yourselves, or, pardon me, to see a reflection of what is going on from the invisible side, let’s say, by peripheral view in a car when you are driving or something like that, right? So, mirrors are like assistants, not more. Whereas, using them as a tool for metaphysical manifestations won’t lead to anything good. One shouldn’t do that. It’s true, Nostradamus used mirrors, many people tell various stories, and many others… It didn’t lead to anything good (T: Yes,

on the spiritual path…). Don’t get into things that are none of your business, because, again, from the perspective of spiritual development, nobody will push you to engage in magic. The whole aspiration and desire to engage in magic comes from the system itself just in order to rise above someone. If you strive to rise above someone in this world, well… you shouldn’t even dream about spirituality. I recall that you once said that “if you moved your hand, and a fork moved away, simply change your hand.” Surely (T: “Don’t play, don’t get carried away by the game…”).

Change your hand, take… don’t play for too long. I also remember the question about calling spirits. Spirit. That is, calling some otherworldly creatures a spirit. And the Holy Spirit which is absolutely opposite. T: The system makes people fear the spiritual, the Spirit. Zh: Yes. Well, again, in the system’s understanding, in the banal understanding of people, “everything is… everything invisible is spirits”, right? Well, again, it is often interpreted in many religions about the same thing. And the Holy Spirit is… well, it is painted with a different paint, in their understanding, but it’s the same nature. And

that’s why it all… exists in such a confused state. Well, the question is certainly interesting, let’s simply bring some clarity. All subtle material structures which are called a spirit and which are, again, subtle material structures, By and large, have nothing to do with the Spirit namely, with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is an inclusion of the One who is not from this world; this is totally beyond the verge of the entire material world, beyond the seventy-two dimensions. He is here, and this is what distinguishes Him. Just like Allat is inherent here. If there were

no Allat, there wouldn’t be anything living, right? The same is with the Holy Spirit. He is the One Who is here, He is the One Who comes only when He is called. Well, again, what is the existence of a human himself? Well, let’s take… even the most material person: He just lives in the system, doesn’t believe in anything, he’s under absolute control like a biorobot, with anger, hatred and aggression towards entire humanity and everything holy. Yet, pardon me, he has a soul, and he has a Personality. And why does he have this? Owing to the

Holy Spirit, because it’s exactly He who gives Life. He gives an understanding to Personality that this exists. However, in this case, if a person is a beast, then the person is surely guided more by what the system gives him: directives, programs, and manipulations. But at least he exists owing to Allat and the Holy Spirit. However, he still has a chance as well to just go ahead and begin to Live. Well, isn’t that so? To break the vicious circle and come out of submission, out of slavery, from under the system. Everything is simple. While that which

is here – subtle material structures, well… these are all sorts of banal living parasites, living ones, just as we are. We are also parasites to them in the same way, but moreover we are a source of food, because we are even worse for them than they are for us. Why? We possess food and don’t share it with everyone – this is offensive to them. Therefore, this shouldn’t be confused. Well, again, if we consider… it’s just interesting from the perspective of physics, if we start delving deeply into the structure of a human body, what will we

arrive at? We will arrive at the fact that our components are at enormous distances from one another, for instance, atoms, electrons; there are tremendous distances there, and so on. But, we are assembled sort of more densely, that’s why we see, for us this world interacts, any matter is denser, and it also interacts. While there is sparser matter. So… well, their density is 10% of ours – and they easily pass through everything. Just in the literal sense of the word, for them this matter doesn’t even exist. Well, it does exist for them, but it’s… you know,

let me just give a simple example. Just imagine: you are walking along a very wide road, it’s a very, very wide road, there is one tree on one side and another tree on the other side, And you are easily walking between them. Whereas for somebody, if all that is put together, well, it alternates and recurs, and it’s just a thick forest, right? Well, just like for us in this case. Everything depends on the scale and on the side from which one looks at it. For you, when you are walking, it’s a wide road, you don’t

even touch these trees, you just see them on the sides. But if we look at this from a higher position, well, from space, for example, what shall we see? A solid mass of trees, right? Well, it’s something like that (T: I see). Therefore, in this ocean of the material world there are various living, thinking, intelligent creatures, let’s say, ever hungry creatures That interact with the coarser three-dimensional material world. Here, the system just acts so meanly that it exactly paints in such negative shades everything that is associated with… IM: …metaphysics? T: …the spiritual. IM: Ah, with

the spiritual? The fact that there is the Spirit, meaning, this is completely one… Well, no, it doesn’t paint meanly. It just mixes all this together at first, you see, that “These are invisible spirits, they are material, well, and the Spirit as well. All this is… all these are spirits. There are good spirits, and there are bad spirits.” There is one good spirit – it’s the Holy Spirit as it is called. (T: Also.) While the rest are subtle material structures – these are not spirits, these are material structures, those very bricks which think and hit on

the head painfully, which fall from the roof right when you don’t want this. It is their job to fall at the right time. Also, Igor Mikhailovich, in the middle of our conversation we… You’ve said that a person seals himself up. No, he seals himself up, and he can unseal himself. It’s his choice. Here it was exactly meant that a person is free in his choice: he can do whatever he wants. If he has sealed himself up like, pardon me, just an animal, well, that’s where he belongs. However, he can remove this seal as well, Because

the one who puts a seal is the one who removes it. Right? It’s not the system that rules. The system instigates and tempts. But the person’s goal is exactly what? Not to yield to temptations, persuasions and intimidations of the system itself. And to remain what? Alive (T: Alive). Just to Live, to Live and to love each other. So, my friends, thank you. Let’s love each other and just Live.