Give Me an Answer - #1418 - Body and Soul

where is the mine located the answer is nowhere because it's not a physical thing it's not existent it doesn't exist in space and time so when I start thinking about this and I think about these descriptions of you know seeing your loved ones seeing these visual sights and so on the only way I can make sense of it is that there's sort of an intersubjective hallucination people have the appearance of seeing yellow brick roads and seeing five foot nine people and so on but since there's nothing around to have any of those features the experiences

are non-vertical we're sort of in a matrix scenario acquired a resurrection and then I start to worry Descartes for example wondered you know once we sight the existence of God to get out of skepticism you know how is that going to work and the idea is well God would never deceive us but now it starts to look like a very condition of there being an afterlife is that there is some kind of deception so I'm wondering should we give up substance dualism should we take claims about the afterlife just be metaphorical how do we think

just give me Descartes again what did you say about Descartes so Descartes was worried about the problem of skepticism how do we not how do we know that we aren't just all being deceived by an ETA Amen right and he thought if he could establish the existence of God yeah that would get out of it because he thought that God would never deceive anyone right but now it looks like the afterlife is just one big hallucination yeah yes the kind of deception well okay so I love Christopher Hitchens you know Christopher Hitchens was yeah sure

basically the modern that was that he liked to drink a lot he did your eye and smoke and so he was basically the top dog for New Atheism do you know when he was dying of cancer a couple years ago the doctors would roll him into the operating room and he would be getting upset with them and they would say oh whoa whoa Christopher you are very sick right now you need to calm down and then he would get more upset with them and say what do you mean I am very sick right now I

need to calm down it's just my body is very sick right now it need to calm him down he was literally getting mad with the doctors because you is basically referring to something outside of just your body it's a soul it's a mind it's something that we don't see so everyone uses this vernacular in their day-to-day and we just don't even realize it but Christopher Hitchens realized it right and so that's why I loved his sincerity and he is just like Nietzsche who talked about how atheists need to stop going about their lives helping the

poor helping the weak helping the oppressed because you're just stealing from Christians admit it at least admit it this was Friedrich Nietzsche who back then was the top dog for atheism [Music] you [Music] now to your point about our you know Descartes are we simply just being jinxed us a total hoax are we being deceived I would honestly you've got to keep falling back on Jesus Christ because if you have no Christ figure if you simply have a monolithic idea of this God and he's totally abstract and conceptual certainly we could be deceived you look

at the Greek guns people were getting deceived all the time but you look at Jesus Christ life how he lived how he taught how he died and then promised a resurrection and eternal life now you start to say okay I can rest pretty secure and I can take that one to the bank but without him there's no personhood then we're in trouble yeah another way to put it is following the second commandment is you're not to make an idol why do I like to make an idol of God because then I'm in control my God

allows me to do whatever I really want to do my god is my pet servant and God says no don't make an idol instead learn to worship me and don't play the control game of trying to control God at the other end of the spectrum is God is just an abstraction I don't have any image in my head of God well what that leads to is no relationship with God if God is just an abstraction then I can't know God I can't personally relate to an abstraction that is why I'm so grateful for Jesus Christ

he claims as put and Paul claims he's the image of the invisible God so if you want to look get to know God get to know Jesus Christ because he's God become a human being [Music] a good set of plane all of which we want to be true so one famous God doesn't deceive we need that in order to know avoid the problem of skepticism right because why is it that we all think that we know that we aren't just you know suffering from a massive hallucination well if you're fortunate we believe God exists and

we believe that God you know wouldn't deceive us in that way so the first claim is God doesn't deceive the second claim is that we are in material non spatially located Minds so that substance dualism many Christians have now not attractive the third claim is that when we die things like the following happen we have visual experiences we interact with other individuals we see other individuals we are reunited with other individuals now my question is how can all be all that be true because if when I die I'm just this non spatially located mind that

is no longer interacting with the body and how could I see anything right because in order to see something it has to actually be spatially located so now it looks like the only way I can really make sense of what's going on in the afterlife is I'm subject to a kind of matrix scenario I have the experience of seeing someone who's five foot nine has blond hair and so on but in fact there is no such thing that has that is five foot nine or has blond hair and so on because these are just you

know immaterial minds that are located nowhere okay well I don't know where you're getting your first three points from totally so I wouldn't necessarily agree with your first three point instead I would parse it this way first point Jesus taught scepticism is important jesus said beware of false prophets they come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ferocious wolves in other words gullibility blind faith don't buy it Jesus says why because good and evil truth and error are so intertwined in this world that you have to be a skeptic otherwise you're gonna get

burned but by skeptic I mean something very technical I mean the idea that we don't actually know anything I am Jesus disagrees with that yeah obviously I disagree with that yeah I can know that this is here and that's why I picked my foot up I can know that he is here that's why my fist stops there right so this whole idea that I can't know anything baloney God has given you in me rational minds and by exercising them in a responsible way we can get in touch with reality do I know everything no is

there lots of mystery yes does that mean that I can't know everything or anything no I can't know everything but I can know something and so can every one of you because you have a rational nice that's a very biblical worldview and that's why modern science began in the Christian West where there's a worldview that says creation is orderly created by an orderly mind this orderly mind has given us orderly minds and we by thinking rationally can do good science or we can do bad sight okay so skepticism Jesus taught now second point he did

not teach cynicism meaning by that you can't know anything you can't trust anybody know you can know things and you can trust people if the evidence is there reliable then you trust them Jesus doesn't say believe me because I'm a crook Jesus doesn't say believe me because I die and stay dead no he says believe me because you see the miracle as I do you see the lifestyle I live and you see that I rose from the dead three days after die so in other words Jesus is not calling for a blind faith he's calling

for a faith that is interested in evidence he gives us the evidence and he says it's not proof no proof but evidence yes so based on the evidence believed in other words epistemological niall ISM is logical atheism it is illogical for a follower of Christ why epistemological meal ISM for an atheist is totally reasonable because remember if you're an atheist your mind where does it come from it comes from the non-rational and Charles Darwin here right out of the ballpark when he wrote a letter to a man named mr. Graham and in this letter he

writes in light of the fact that our brains are simply highly developed monkeys brains why do we trust our brains to tell us the truth would you trust the thoughts of a monkey very good Charles Darwin if there is no God it means your brain comes out of Nan reason you and I were created for heaven the Apostle Paul writes in Philippians 3:20 and 21 but our citizenship is in heaven and we eagerly await a savior from there the Lord Jesus Christ who by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control will

transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body but many people object you're so heavenly minded you're no earthly good that is a twisting of what the Bible teaches the Scriptures consistently teach that when you and I make heaven our primary reference point it rivets our attention on what is important it alters our behavior in an incredibly positive way when you and I focus on heaven that is a posture that we're taking before God that's a statement I want to live my life together with God now and for eternity whenever anybody

says to me I don't want to go to heaven I understand what they're saying they're saying I don't want to live my life together with God well guess what God's not going to force anybody to live for eternity in his presence but when you have a accurate view of heaven when you understand that every good gift that you and I enjoy is Oh a gift from God you're long to be together with God which means you're long to be in heaven because you know that in heaven all evil all suffering destruction and death will be

wiped out and there will be eternal peace eternal joy eternal love and relationship with Christ and with others in heaven not only is focusing on heaven a posture before God but it is also a perspective on possessions our possessions important yes the material is good our possessions to be worshiped no our possessions to be lived for no our possessions to drag me out of contentment into discontent no instead possessions are to be received as a gift from God to be stewarded wisely and I am never to become envious of others instead I'm learned I am

to learn to celebrate what God has blessed others with when you have heaven clearly in your sights in your focus it gives you a healthy perspective on possessions thirdly heaven gives us an accurate perception of people when you look into the face of another human being you are never looking into the face of a mere mortal you are looking into the face of a person who God created to live for eternity with him in heaven as CS Lewis points out when you look into the face of another person you're either looking into the face of

someone who is becoming so ungodlike so unhuman that it's like a character in the worst horror film that's what they're becoming but when you're looking at the face of a person who really trusts God and wants to live together with God with Christ you're looking into the face of a person who is in the process of becoming more and more like Christ to the point of one day you might be tempted to worship them thinking that they're Christ no they're not Christ they're a human being but they are a human being who wants to do

God's will who wants to be christ-like and then finally heaven gives us a perspective on pain pain is horrible suffering stinks death is the biggest enemy we have but when you begin to understand that one day Christ will return in power and great glory he will give those who trusted in him new bodies to live for eternity in heaven whether we no more pain no more suffering no more evil no more death suddenly that brings hope that brings strength to you to make it through the painful times why because you know that ultimately God's will

shall prevail and He will give you the gift of eternal life in heaven do you see how that alters your perspective on pain have you trusted in Christ and received the gift of heaven that he promises to all who trust in him you can make that decision right now simply but profoundly ask him to forgive you for your wrongdoing trust that he died on the cross for your sin and open up your life to His Holy Spirit to live within you to change your perspective on God on circumstances of life on people and on pain

god bless you as you make that most important decision it sounds like what helps us to get out of the threat of skepticism or skepticism is this idea that we don't know anything right helps us to get out of that right is that we believe that God does not deceive us he puts us in environments that are all things considered conducive the truth right but now the afterlife doesn't look like that because we're having all of these experiences that aren't political they are analogous to hallucinations negative because given substance dualism that the mind is a

non-physical substance it's not spatially located anywhere you ask where is it the answer is nowhere you're not going to find it in space and time in some sense it's connected to a body but it's not in any way you know a physical kind of object so given that the mind can't be colorful it can't have a size it can't you know physically bump into things can't do any of those ordinary things that we observe in our day-to-day lives right so how could another mind and presumably you know these things in some sense exist in the

afterlife how could it be five foot nine how could it have blonde hair how could I be reunited with it and these are the ways we talk about the afterlife sir the reason that you and I have a disagreement is because when you read the Gospels Jesus had a resurrection body when you read first Corinthians 15 Paul does not talk about heaven as being disembodied spirits floating around there is a physicality to the resurrection body of Christ and there is a physicality to life in heaven and a new new earth that totally pulls us out

of this Gnostic view of the physical is evil inconsequential it's not going to last for eternity and it pulls us right back into a biblical view of you which is you have a body and that is a gift from God and that is good that's why I framed it in terms of the intermediary periods that's now let me address that yeah okay the Bible never specifically says exactly what happens to a Christian when they die what Paul does right in Philippians 1 is for me to live is Christ and to die is gain if I

am to go on living in this body it will mean fruitful labor for me what shall I choose I do not know I am torn between the two I desire to depart and be with Christ be with Christ which is better by far he never defines what it means to be with Christ my mom died two years ago my dad died eight years ago they both had their faith in Christ I am convinced that their soul which includes their mind is in the presence of Christ but they don't have eyes to see they don't have

a 510 physique they don't have two arms and two legs and a head their body is decomposing it's dirt now ashes but Christ promised that when he would return a second time he would raise our bodies to life and give us new spiritual imperishable immortal bodies is what Paul writes in 1st Corinthians 15 so therefore I look forward to seeing my father and my mother one day in heaven after Christ returns a second time you think this this kind of account undermines the way in which people want to draw on near-death experiences as evidence for

an afterlife because near-death experiences seem to involve visual experiences they involve experiences seeing light at the end of a dark tunnel so should we just deny that you know those are really experiences of the afterlife great question I can promise you I would never ever believe there's life after death because someone in an operating table said well I died and I saw a big light at the end of a tunnel and then I came back I don't have the foggiest idea what light at the end of a tunnel for someone whose heart has stopped beating

is all about I don't have the faintest idea and I can promise you I would never want to base my future on that experience never all right so yeah that's interesting because you know one of the ways out I was imagining is that the way a lot of you know ordinary people who may don't haven't read the Bible very correctly tend to think about these girls this may be mistaken for a memory maybe that's okay maybe that's what we want if we want to have a biblically based worldview that's a very perceptive observation on your

part very perceptive I got a lot of buddies who come up to me and say well cliff now I believe there's life after death and I say really why and they say well because this person writes about the light at the end of the tunnel and I say I don't say anything I just keep my mouth shut but guys if you want to base your belief on life after death on somebody having a near-death experience and seeing a light at the end of a tunnel please be more skeptical please be more reasonable just because someone

has an after death experience and they see a light means Zippo just because someone says well when I was in an operating table I died and I ascended above my body and I looked down and I saw my body all right fine that's your experience no problem but I'm not gonna base my view of life after death on that kind of experience I can't do that Todd loved football he would run around on a regular basis with a football tucked underneath his arm but one day Todd had a younger brother brought into his life by

his mom and dad his little brother was Alan Alan began to grow but it became obvious rather quickly that something was wrong as he became a little boy he began to stumble more and what became clear was his kidney was failing they looked for a donor but they couldn't find one for little Alan and so Todd one day said I want to give one of my kidneys to my little brother Alan the doctors put Todd through a barrage of tests and the psychologist talked with little Todd as well and said Todd do you understand that

if you give one of your kidneys to your brother Alan you're no longer gonna be able to play football and Todd said I don't care I'm giving one of my kidneys to my brother the day of the operation came Todd and Alan were rolled on there to hospital beds into the elevator and they began to go up to the operating room suddenly Alan turned to his brother Todd and asked him Todd when they give me part of you is it gonna hurt you and Todd reached out and grabbed his brother Alan's hand and he said

no Todd no Alan it's not gonna hurt because you Alan or my brother you see friends that's love love is not just endorphins love is not just a chemical reaction in the brain love is not just a high serotonin level love is the free ability that you and I have to choose to give to sacrifice to serve the English language is rather poor when it comes to the number of words that we have to communicate love but the Greek language is not poor when it comes to those words in Greek there are four words for

love philia friendship storge the kind of love that exists between family members eros romantic sexual love the sex drive and also agape and in first Corinthians chapter 13 the Apostle Paul writes about agape about real God love he writes beginning in verse 4 first Corinthians 13 love is patient patience has love under pressure love is kind kindness is love in small things it's watching a person closely enough so that you see what they need what could help them get ahead and you meet that need love is patient love is kind it does not envy why

because love learns to celebrate with another person over their successes not to be envious over their successes but to celebrate with them over their successes love does not boast why because agape love flows from the heart of God to you you allow God's agape love to fill your heart and then you begin to learn to celebrate with other people the gifts that God has given them that's real love it doesn't envy it doesn't boast it is not proud it is not self-seeking why because love is other-centered love is the freedom to care more about you

and less about myself it does not boast it is not proud it also is not rude love does not allow you to use your tongue to rip into another person instead we are to trust another person or to build them up were to encourage them it is not rude it also keeps no record of wrongs why do I want to keep a record of your wrongs because one day when I do something wrong against you I'm gonna be able to remind you all the many things you've done wrong to make its tit for tat it's

trying to remain in a position of moral superiority that's not what love is about love is about forgiving and then learning to move beyond the hurt and really actively work for the well-being of the other person and then Paul writes love does not fail gosh that's weird isn't it you and I live in a culture that says if that person meets your needs if that person puts bubbles in your boots then love them because they're helping you get ahead in life but if that person loses their attractiveness if they lose their ability to help you

get ahead then drop them like a hot cake and Jesus Christ says now love is loyal Paul writes love does not fail it keeps on going especially when the reasons to keep on going get fewer in number and that is exactly the quality of love that Jesus Christ has for you and for me in spite of the fact that we flipped him off in spite of the fact that we rebelled against God God became man in Christ pursuing us hotly drawing us back to himself by giving his life for you and for me on a

cross to forgive us and to reconcile us to himself have you responded to God's love and are you allowing his love to flow through you into the lives of others that's what a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ is someone who has opened their life up and received Christ's love therefore they've trusted in him and now they're allowing Christ's love to flow through them into the lives of others and that ladies and gentlemen is exactly the purp for which God put you and me on planet Earth god bless you as you make your own

decision to trust in Jesus Christ I'm one of the pastor's of Grace Community Church we meet every Sunday morning at 9:30 at Grace farms located at 365 Luke's Wood Road in New Canaan Connecticut if you've enjoyed listening to the dialogue that we have with university students I'd like to invite you to turn to ask cliff on youtube or give me an answer on youtube thanks for joining us for these few minutes have a great day [Music] you