I Was a Prison Shot Caller — Here’s What That Really Means

On today's episode we have John John Bristo who I had the pleasure of interviewing during my trip to Arkansas this past August John John was sentenced to prison got recruited into the Brotherhood and ultimately became a highlevel leader in this episode we hear about the inner workings of the Brotherhood what his day-to-day life was like and how he was able to exit on his own terms remember everyone you can grab Your official locked in gear just in time for the holiday season use code locked in at check out for 20% off your entire order yes

for the holiday season we are giving our viewers and listeners 20% off their entire order I hope everyone sits back relaxes and gets ready to lock in with John John Bristo John John welcome to Locked In man we're we're recording right now in our hotel room we're in Arkansas um we just shot a couple pods with the the County sheriff today and um Jimmy McGill um and Jimmy McGill is the one that introduced you and I together really really grateful you came on the show today you have an incredible story uh and I saw your

mug shot and it looks nothing like you if anyone Googles you and takes the time to look you up um they're going to be shocked when they see who you are today yeah it's crazy but I guess that just shows like your recovery and and how far you've come uh So let's start at the beginning of your story where are you from where' you grow up what's kind of like childhood life sure so um I'm originally from a small town in New Boston uh in Texas called New Boston uh my life was a little bit

uh I don't want to say easy but I mean it was life to me um I grew up with an older brother and an older sister um you know between the three of us I was kind of like the being the youngest I was kind of like the favorite so I got Showed a little favoritism and uh I was I was really good at school I was a really good good athlete man those those were my passions I I did well at both of them and uh somewhere like uh early on my parents got divorced

and uh when that happened um there was a lot of freedom there was a lot of freedom for me and uh I still I still like I excelled in sports um I didn't get into a lot of trouble you know uh I had one of those fathers I I Don't know if you can relate but I had one like he like if you didn't do it his way like he he would he would be willing to be vicious enough to make sure that you did it right the next time like he was not a an

easy person to be with but he was my father and uh he was always there my mother she came down here to Little Rock and uh like I I would come down here to visit her from time to time growing up and uh me and my brother and my Sister and somewhere along the way like um she kind of like faded out of the picture a little bit and uh my dad um like I like I said like he he he he taught things things through um through aggression like it was kind of his way

of the highway so I was kind of like feared into doing the right thing so like I didn't steer too far from into trouble you know through my high school years and uh when I was about 13 my mother all of a sudden pops back into The picture with with this guy you know I guess he was my stepdad or whatever and um when he came in like uh like uh they came to take us away and like I was freaked out you know like I didn't I knew her because I would come down there

randomly you know growing up but not not enough to really call it a relationship and when she came to take us away like I like I hated it like she they put but they had put in a child abuse case on my dad and I like I guess That's the first time that I realized like that you know that what maybe the the the the the butt whooping or whatever um was was wrong you know like uh I didn't I didn't know that that was any body different from your childhood or anyone else's like to

me that was normal like you messed up you got beat up and uh so moving on I was you know I I I I kind of like I I I stayed in sports and I always did at school did good in school because I was scared of The consequences that might come with it and uh but I also had this this fire inside of me like I was a bigger guy and uh I had you know from defending myself and stuff uh kind of with my dad you know I had developed this uh like I

could b a little bit you know what I mean I found out like I could protect myself and uh so when I was when I was in high school like uh we're on the state line and uh I was into I got into an altercation like I was I was outside Of a Hooters and uh whenever I was outside like this guy walks out you know we' been in there doing what kids do like we we drank a little bit I didn't do too much drugs at this time but um he like went to poke

in this girl in the face and when he did um I decided to intervene you know like I decided to get into the mix and try to uh I guess save this lady I don't know what the hell I had going on you know but I just like Tried to triy to butt into it and when I did like this guy I guess he thought he was going to poke me in the face and I hopped back and I kicked him and when I did do you know those like uh the yellow things that you

pull a car up and park on yeah uh like he he he slumped into it and hit his head and dude when he did he started like bleeding out of his ears and you know it busted him up and so I just I take off man and so in the moment I took off like all you see on this Camera when they're displaying it you don't see me dude poking this girl you know you don't see none of that all you see is me kick this man in the face he'll me this parking curve and

me take off and so you know I can remember uh no knowing that you're about to do some time um you know you kind of you kind of hear stories you know what I'm saying and and and you're in jail and people are like man like you know you're fing like you're going to The belly of the Beast like you you got to you got to get your game face on and so like I I'm like you know I'm scared like I I have lived this kind of like you know I've been into my dad

I've been to some schoolyard fights or whatever but uh from the stories I was heing like it was going to be a whole new level of anything I'd ever experienced so did you end up getting caught after that incident and arrested oh yeah and how old are you you're like 16 17 I'm in my 20s oh you're in your 20s when this happened and this is the first time you've ever been arrested yeah and you're what are you doing for work are you working so yeah so I was uh I'm actually um an electrician by

trade I had I had went to school for industrial electricity um and I had started my path uh and going into that kind of field you know just kind of general maintenance electrical HVAC things like that were you on drugs at all at this time so I Had I had dibbled and dabbled uh with different drugs but nothing like hard enough you know like nothing that had send me spiraling in a different direction or anything chaotic like nothing like extreme at that point so like you were saying earlier pretty normal childhood despite the trauma with

your dad yeah you didn't do drugs in my house like my brother did and like to be honest like he the whole child AB abuse thing kind of stem from him um kind of Just marijuana like ordinary kid [ __ ] right it's it's available like we're in Texas for God's sakes you know it's it's everywhere and like my dad like it was forbidden like he you know he he would beat him he would beat him up do you think your father loved you absolutely do you think he knew what he was doing was wrong

though yeah but like uh I think you know like I know my mom was his everything and when they split up uh he kind of Ventured off into another woman and like like they clashed so like I think a lot of that that tension that they developed got spiral down to us because he could like he he he loved her like he wanted to stick around but he couldn't just like Express his true feelings towards us so it kind of like hit us yeah like he married That Woman twice you know like so he evidently

loved her so you end up getting arrested first time ever arrested yeah and so like I'm hearing These stories in jail about like man you've got to you've got to lay your demo down man you got to go in there and you got to make an example like you can't you can't go in there no no [ __ ] man you got to you and so like I'm really not a scary person like the the person that I looked up to the most and adored and love would beat me the [ __ ] up you

know what I'm say saying so I realized that like like if I can endure like some of that [ __ ] like I I feel Like I'm ready for this but like make no mistake I'm scared and and when they dropped me off you know at these Gates like I'm looking around at all these grown ass men and [ __ ] you know what I'm saying tatted up like I didn't have none of that you don't look the way you do now back then no no no I was still like I was still a big

guy like I was my dad was a really big guy so I had that going and they were telling me like they're going to like they were basically Telling me the G gangs Wen I didn't even know what a gang was you know what I'm saying like this was forign like I'm from a small town man this is foreign to me but uh like uh they kind of were like telling me like they're going to seek me out like the like you're Prime for what they want you're a big big big ass white boy you

know like they were like somebody's going to be looking for me to put me down is the way they expressed it so I go in there and like so I'm looking For this dude that's going to get this de demo in like I'm like hey I'm going to seek this dude out and he's going to get it today so I go in there and uh like there's like like I like I tell know nothing about gangs and like where in this land like there the politics are real like this table is for this this race

this table is for this this this table here he's by itself so when I see this Mexican at this table by itself like I'm like you Know like he's the one this is your first day in president like he's going to get this demo like he's he going to get it how do you know this is a early 20-year-old White kid going it this is crazy I didn't know to do that when I went to prison at that age so just from the stories like they said you lay your demo down nobody's going to fo

with you and I'm believing this man I'm I'm I'm naive I'm gullible all right so you took the bait you go what happens oh yeah so Like I check him I see him at this table and uh like I'm trying to figure out like how I'm going to put this demo like how so I just pushed this dude out of his chair and push his tray off on top of him and set my [ __ ] down like I'm claiming I'm claiming states to this land and you have no idea this guy is no so

this is like where my first interaction with like a gang is like now I know like this is where I'm going to learn about gangs yeah so this dude was Uh he's a shot CER like he's a boss you didn't know that though [ __ ] no you the wrong guy yeah yeah so so anyway like just like that like they're on me like a pack of wild dogs you know I mean they're they're they're they're Fu they're [ __ ] me up man I'm I'm trying to give them hell you know what I'm saying

nobody's come to say nobody even knows who the [ __ ] I am and the the police or officers security officers they come in there they get me up they Put me in cffs they kind of like spray gas you know they kind of deescalate the situation and they're trying to get me that out the [ __ ] out of there before anything real happens and uh they had me you know they had me cuffed up and when I'm walking down the hall they came out of the kitchen and they stuck me through right here

with the welding rod and that was like when I knew that this life was real and uh so he got me here and then I spun and he started getting the the Officer you know so like it was a [ __ ] up situation there were several of them and they take me to the they they get get me to the hole you know what I'm saying and now I'm serving out the sentence how were you sentenced by this point when this happened yeah yeah I'm already in prison how much time did you four years

you got four years for this assault even though it was kind of like a self-defense a little there no self-defense but you were you were Defending someone else in a way yeah so like they're not if you took that to trial don't you think you could have won they would have favored the the woman I don't I don't know that I would ever take anything to trial no no like I'm more of a deal taker you know what this is like those movies um there's multiple movies like uh one shot caller where the guy gets

into that you know the manslaughter case does time and gets himself in a situation great movie and Then the other one is where an army guy gets into a bar fight goes to prison his whole life changes after that and like the Nicholas Cage movie Con Air it's similar storyline you were just a normal dude yeah you were working a regular job you get into this fight essentially yeah and your life changes forever yeah like a year prior you never thought you'd be in a gang I never thought I would ever go to prison in

my entire life like that was never far to the plan and to be Honest with you I was a really good athlete I should have played some sort of college baseball yeah yeah that's wild so where does it progress do you get recruited to a gang what goes so yeah so check this out so uh there's a few uh different gangs uh so and multiple ones approached me you know what I mean they they didn't really know that I was just scared to death they just thought I was a [ __ ] crazy ass [

__ ] white dude like they like this Dude is [ __ ] crazy he's right he don't give a [ __ ] the truth is then I was just scared and so when I came out of the hole they advised me um can I just talk about like exactly what gang it is and yeah the arean circle approach me and they're like look they kind of explain to me like you're in this situation now this is kind of where you're at this is what needs to happen and considering the weapon I just took like I'm

like like I'm open to this now So like but I'll tell you like the kind of the [ __ ] I had to do to become a part of this gang was um was kind of was vicious like I I laid a lot of ass whopping down I carried out a lot of different uh stabbings you know what I mean whatever whatever was necessary like I was just like I had put myself into this Grime mode to say [ __ ] it everything what what do you what what's up so they uh I acquired the

name they called me Plan B Plan B yeah and so then When I got my patch it took me a little over a year to get my patch what does it mean to get a patch so it's a tattoo uh that represents that I've fully dedicated myself to this game and I have accepted our responsibilities that go with it I put in the work to become part of this game I'm family I'm now family when I get this patch and it's a prison patch like you get it Inked on you in prison oh yeah did

you know what this gang represented at the time you went in And joined it so yeah they gave me uh a Constitution and it on like I'm going to get more than that but it went against it went against everything I've ever [ __ ] lived or learned like like uh truth be told like I'm in a prominent white gang now and I don't even like I'm okay with black guys I'm okay with Mexican like I don't give a [ __ ] about none of that Ian so you didn't believe in their values but you

were looking at them maybe for protection in a way or I Guess you could say that I had forced myself I feel like to kind of believe some of this hor [ __ ] that they were telling me um and I don't know it I don't really know if it was out of fear if I just want to be a part of something in this time that I'm about to do or if I was just [ __ ] scared man and four years when you reflect that back on it's not a lot long time no

no it was to me young man it was half my guy to me it was half my [ __ ] adult life yeah when I got three years I felt the same way but I wasn't hopping out the door to join a a prison gang no no I mean I guess my that's just dude you are literally like a movie plot it's it's it's really insane but it's good that we're hearing this perspective yeah um because you you put yourself you made that choice to go into that position because in a sense you needed them

because you anger you you like took a a bat to a a hornet's nest essentially cuz The the Mexicans do not play around and what's so crazy is I'm pretty easy to get along with had I just [ __ ] vibed I probably would have done just fine like after my next trips to prison like I realized like the foolishness that went all in all into that but like at this time though in I'm all in like I'm all in like the gang that I'm affiliated with like there's levels to this [ __ ] you

know what I mean there's [ __ ] ranks there's different tattoos I can Earn like I'm all in at this point like how do I get this new tattoo that's exclusive yeah like there's not a lot of people that wear some of the brands that I'm that I had you know what I mean like and and the work that I put into it like I had dedicated my life to this [ __ ] you know what I mean now when you said they gave you a constitution like to explain everything is that a piece of

paper the rules and the guidelines that we live by and what what what are those guidelines Oh [ __ ] uh you going to get me hurt so basically it's um kind of saying like that I will never live outside of my race I will never marry outside of my race that we're building this thing for the for the generation of white people like it's it's [ __ ] racist Ian did you know at the time it was racist absolutely so what do you think propelled you in your mind to still carry through with it

to still join them I think they made me feel like I was a part of them you know what I'm saying and I think more so they made me feel like I [ __ ] needed them do you think that carries back to not getting that feeling from your father and your parents in general I never thought of it that way but probably so like these people like so my dad's idea was of love was like like when I [ __ ] up kicking my ass you know and like I guess that's how I distinguish

like that he cared About me like he was he he cared enough to notice me to [ __ ] me up and these guys embraced me in and protected me so maybe so you were looking to like attach on that first thing that wanted you a part of them like made you feel important yeah I guess so and it just happened to be a white suprise King in prison yeah to totally [ __ ] up so what are like some of the the stories the crazy stories from your time in this gang so most of

it is uh and this is Going to be really shitty but a lot of it was uh was a lot of like riding against rival white gangs oh so it's G it's white versus white in a lot of in a lot of times and and even in my transition to other prisons it was kind of the same you know what I mean like this group stuck to this group this group stuck to this group and all the groups are fighting over power within their own race like it was kind of like it was kind of

[ __ ] up yeah you know Like um I like I can remember uh I I can't even tell you like I I've shut it off like a lot of people that I've stabbed you know what I mean for like no apparent reason like just like uh me and you're getting along and we're fine right and we're we're actually chilling you're a white guy I'm like whatever I'm allowed to talk to you we're kicking it and then one day they're like hey man he owes some money man this this there's a Green light on him

which means take him out you know what I'm saying yeah how does a prison stabbing go down when when someone greenlights someone it comes from your chain of command in this gang they they tell you what to do walk me through from the time you get that green light so absolutely so whenever somebody tells me hey like uh there's a green light on this guy you need to take care of this business man okay like there's not really a timeline It's just the first time that I'm going to catch up with you you know what

I mean and and generally you can you know how you can you've been to prison you know how you can kind of feel that tension so they kind of know it's coming and they're trying to avoid me so it's not like it's going to go down perfectly where uh we I just wind up in uh the same situation as you like I'm going to have to seek you the [ __ ] out so generally like I'm trying to find a way If you don't live in my housing unit I'm trying to find a way to

sneak over there and and a lot of times I told you I got a a maintenance background so I got the keys to the kingdom so that even makes me more value so I'm trying to maneuver over there so I can get this so I can stick this [ __ ] in you man and just like that like I'm rewarded and that you know what I'm saying that feels good it's a lot better than ass whooping than I've been taking and what do you use for the What was your choice to make the the shank

or the the the the rod or whatever so generally Nails Nails yeah nails are I don't know um a lot of times because I worked in the ler Department we could file down electrical boxes in a unit or metal so they have a casing that goes around it that kind of like slides in and it covers what they call the junction box and we can file those down and they make like a one that you can hold in your Hand and cuz you don't what you don't want to do is lose it so generally it's

like taped up or something so you can get a good grip on it handle that business are these people dying or just like a generally no okay yeah generally no but are you okay with the fact that you could have killed them in that moment when you're committing the stabbing like are you aiming to kill so no I would I would say no like if if it was so to happen it would have been what It was but I was too scared to not carry out this green light more than I would have like [

__ ] this dude you know what I mean like I in my mind I'm lugging myself up man this dude owes this [ __ ] he owes my [ __ ] bro some money you know what I mean like he's got to get it yeah like you [ __ ] my bro over like this is at this point in time these are my these are my blood these are my people you know what I mean and whatever I got to do to to to protect This family and and you can't like you can't get away

from this [ __ ] [ __ ] no matter what unit where you go like they're there deep and so like I'm fixing I'm fixing to handle that business were you ever stabbed yourself in prison yeah and what's that like what was like the first time you were ever stabbed in prison so I told you about the first one they like I kind of like I didn't even really see it coming like I had never had this kind of issue before But like I told you he had a welding rod through the middle of his

finger you know what I'm saying that only reason I know that it's cuz they showed it to me or they didn't show me they told me about it but I like happen to see him come out of like the kitchen and when I did I turned it and when I turned it I got a hole in each side of my chest where it just went through wow so it wasn't like a a life-threatening injury it was just one Of those like freak of the moment where I happened to turn and he Stu me but then

like I said he started start stabbing the guard are you bleeding a lot when this is happening not not that particular one now I have now in this gang are you guys getting orders to attack guards at all or guards like a no hit policy how does that work no absolutely not so I never got got anything uh on a guard but definitely so guards are could this could happen to a Guard oh it happens all the time yeah and what about corruption with the guards working with the gang is are there things like that

that are happening yeah absolutely generally uh drugs cigarettes you know things like that phones uh the same thing I think uh probably pretty much in every prison and these gangs like operate kind of like a cartel in a way where they make money I'm assuming right or is it not motivated by money some of them down There in in the region I'm talking about like the the the Hispanics you know what I mean they they kind of rule all as far far as trafficking things inside of a prison and a lot of times um the

loads get moved by the other races if that makes sense now are you guys like checking paperwork is there a process that like do they do background on you to make sure yeah you have to fill out for an NCC check to to other inmates yeah before before yeah I mean you got To think uh they have unlimited especially like you just talked to a guard something like that they have unlimited access and resources to look you up and to see what you're about in that world yeah yeah and if and if you try to

infiltrate infiltrate this uh gang and you've been in some you've been doing some slick [ __ ] in that world then then you I mean you're going to get the business do they have good time in the state yeah so I'm assuming you lost all Your good time when you yeah was you ever reflect back on that like you got a fouryear sentence you probably could have got out way earlier than what you ended up doing so yeah uh yeah I never got like uh in the end being like the last time like my whole

mind frame had changed so like good time became a priority but before like uh you know home was going to be there Ian you know what I'm saying and and to be honest uh as I transitioned to different parts of My life like like like the situation and the and the and the the man I was in there was way better than the man I was out there like I wasn't [ __ ] in the world you know after after those PR prison trips like I could walk the yard and [ __ ] like I'm

an accomplished man in there yeah like those tattoos I told you I got a few of them you know what I mean when you got out and you're for the first time and you're still a part of this gang what are your responsibilities In the Free World as a gang member so I actually um I I they so they got these meetings and they call in in my gang they called him church and I would I would actually host them like I I had moved up in the ranks even in the world and uh I

had moved to Arkansas and and they called that an OS state which is which is out of state because it originated in Texas and I would host them and I was uh what they called a deputy dog um I I I was the the highest Person around in Arkansas that was actually in the Free World like the the higher ranks generally are incarcerated because they put in a different level of work or even in the federal penitentiary MH but um like I would host these churches we would collect dues to kind of like and and

and kind of help Bros and [ __ ] like that that are locked up uh or to help their families but like make no mistake in this is not a [ __ ] well organized anything like these [ __ ] do meth and drugs and that's all the [ __ ] they care about so there's these dudes and [ __ ] no for whatever reason they can't pay this little $12 and what they get beat the [ __ ] up like it's [ __ ] chaos are you paid for your position no so what do

you have to make what are you doing for work and money so I'm I have to work like it's still like I told you like I'm I'm good at working with my hands like I've always carried that out like I think uh The positions more for bragging rights you know what I'm saying like like I put in the word to make it up here like you got like you can't a lot of a lot of the positions uh are voted in you know what I'm saying they can vote you in vote you out and uh

generally always you know what I mean I got I got the leg up why do you think you stayed a part of it even once you finally got free like I know what your your motivation was to get into it while you're in jail but When you got out why still stick with it I think uh like I think at that time Ian I had I had believed it I had become victim of it and like this this had become who I was you know what I mean like this is that this this is now

who I identify with because at that time like I truly believe and I feel like I belonged like for the first time in my life like uh like I'm a part of this you know what I'm saying this is the one thing I've earned you can't take it away From me and how's your relationship with your parents do they know oh yeah what you're involved with oh yeah and what do they say what's their reaction so when I was deep in this like they hated it like they [ __ ] cuz like no like I

was NE like I don't have parents that would sign off on any of this [ __ ] I'm telling you like they've never heard most of this [ __ ] in depth well most parents wouldn't yeah um well like I've met some parents that like they glorify their kid For [ __ ] being in the arean circle it sickening but my parents are polar opposite man they just they raised me to to say yes sir no sir yes ma'am no ma'am open the door for old people like they they raised me with genuine Southern qualities

you know what I mean that that we pride oursel on and like I lived against those those that all that like and I think like um I held some serious resentments towards myself so like I just was fixing to be the image of Whatever the [ __ ] somebody wanted me to be you know what I'm saying so I could blend the [ __ ] in man how do you end up going back to prison this okay so like after I get out like I'm warped to the fullest like my mind is no longer belongs

to me you know what I mean I'm literally an image that I that I have created um never was like a just terribly violent person you know and now I that was a [ __ ] that was crazy and so whenever uh I lost my train of Thought whenever I was uh whenever I was whenever I was in prison like um I could I could I I I could fit in like I could be this man like I or I was the [ __ ] man you know and then I go in this world and

uh like come to find out like nobody's taking this [ __ ] man seriously like you know what I mean so like the the I get I got into drugs you know what I'm saying like that that was my Escape at this point like I I can't Even look at my like I literally [ __ ] hated myself like everything that I was taught as a child this person that I I was supposed to grow up and be like I was so far [ __ ] away from that like that I had literally like like

at this point like I just I just wanted to know at all I didn't want to remember this [ __ ] that I did against my own will I didn't want to remember these uh these riots these retaliations uh trying to act like that I was I absolutely love this [ __ ] like this yeah you know what I mean like I hit like this is the [ __ ] like so I got deep into some drugs man what kind of drugs are we talking about so at first it started out uh with with meth

methamphetamines that's a big thing in the gang that I was affiliated with um what did that feeling do for you when you tried it the first time what what would you compare it to that feeling [ __ ] to be honest with like it was like A rush like a a wide awake like a just a like like just happy like I would sit there and just talk and chill like I didn't have to I didn't have to be crazy you know what I mean there was these [ __ ] loose ass women that around

you know it was fun at first like it was enjoyable I didn't really have a lot but like the the people around me like I had been to prison I'm SLE the [ __ ] I got them all over me you know what I mean I'm known for for for For being this animal really you know what I mean the way I look at it now but like uh like like I like this this [ __ ] crowd that I was now like hanging out with the world [ __ ] thought I was the [

__ ] and I believed it and what happens next you you get going down the drug use yeah so now now I'm using drugs Faithfully like I like I'm still trying to work and [ __ ] and if if a if if a if a a job got you know a few hours or 20 hours a week from me Like they [ __ ] lucked out it's hard to work when you're on drug yeah like like I'm I'm I'm literally like and then like uh I get late off and [ __ ] want to talk

foul to him like I I didn't have a good reputation and so like naturally like uh like I I I don't have a way to to to fuel these drugs like so I start robbing stealing whatever I got to do and uh I mean it caught up with me and that's when you end up getting a a longer jail sentence for that so yeah so That's uh when I when I is that the mug shot I went back to prison I that we're way away from that oh wow so you you've have quite a journey

yeah so so I went to prison again and this time I was only gone for a couple years and are you welcomed Open Arms by the Brotherhood yeah so I'm from Texas and uh so and I come in there to Arkansas and it's gang like they already know who the [ __ ] I am and uh they're like all right man and like they're Embrac with open arms like they're shooting the sack down the hall for me you know what I mean like so like I'm living it up and like Arkansas like so we got

air conditioning we're in a whole new population of prison now like we're [ __ ] it's easy living like it's like I don't mind [ __ ] up here you know what I'm saying like you get in trouble you get out you get in trouble you get out so like this it's a smaller area so if you [ __ ] up somebody else going to [ __ ] up and bond you out and you're going to be right back out there doing your thing and so like it it was an easier place to do time

yeah how is a gang member treated when he first gets to a new prison who's already established like yourself well they'll bring me like as soon as they find out who I am which a lot of people are already going to know who and and I have no idea who they are like they're just going to know who I am and uh man they Welcome with me open arms man hey man give me you know food or sack whatever cigarettes whatever you know what I'm saying whatever's going on at that prison and uh like it

made me feel you know like I felt like I was the man but do you also have a Target on your back by other people in Arkansas prisons yeah and any different prison you go to I guess uh but not necessarily I didn't have a reputation to really put a Target on my back like I like if you wanted to Go home I wasn't a [ __ ] dude to mess with like I'm fixing to [ __ ] your time up like I don't give a [ __ ] if we the day I don't care

where we're at like I'm we're going in just because they're going home soon yeah or not necessarily cuz they're going home soon but like like if people I had the reputation that if you're going to get if you're going to get sideways with me I don't give a damn where we're at like this is going to happen yeah like I'm not the dude to Say hey man when we get back to the barracks no I'm like we're in this [ __ ] hallway like what's up it's go time regardless yeah we're going to jail now

when the cops are asking you or like the correctional officers counselors case managers are you getting Affiliated now you have to say you are so they so they strip you butt neck and and like they start taking pictures and they're like what set you represent they already like it's all on file they already know What's up like there's no way I'm getting out of this [ __ ] I got the tattoos that match your profile like it's it's what's up were you proud to wear that tattoo at that point in time hell yeah what do

you think it represented to you uh I guess Unity loyalty solidarity like it you know Brotherhood yeah like all that so how does it work with co-mingling with other races are you allowed to even be seen talking to another race or not so You can like they definitely do business together but like sitting down uh in you know in real prison politics sitting down like we're not going to eat we're not F to spread we're not going to share cups none of that [ __ ] now would you consider yourself a shot caller by this

point I don't know about a shot caller but um I definitely was someone like I was someone that if if something's going down I'm going to know that information so it's kind of like a in the feds they Would call that like a shot caller okay yeah I know I know it doesn't sound like a if if I I could pass things down to people that definitely have something harm done to you but I also if you pass something to me I'm going to harm these people too no are people coming to you ask asking

for permission to say touch someone else's s or anything like that oh yeah most certainly and I also was one that was s about disciplinaries like I'm like if you [ __ ] up within the Gang like like me and whoever or I'm the one that's pushing that issue to come get you taken care of not not eliminated from the gang but to let you know that I see you [ __ ] up and I'm not going for it so what are some of like the the the biggest uh like issues or fuckups you could

do as a gang member and what are what's like the um the the retaliation for those fuckups so so one of the major ones and this is going to sound [ __ ] crazy is drugs like it it's crazy as That everybody's doing them including me when I'm serving out a disciplinary for somebody doing [ __ ] drugs you know what I'm saying it's really chaotic but like more people more people are scared to like confront me or to say something to me because of my status so but yeah generally a lot of time it's

for drugs doing drugs or selling drugs doing drugs like selling them is completely permitted it makes no sense so you find out someone in your gang is is doing Drugs what your action to to develop somebody that can come over there and to serve them serve them with a with a beating yeah [ __ ] them up yeah whoop their ass you know get their attention and generally it's two on one like it's not a fair fair situation but they're still a part of the gang absolutely now are there scenarios where someone does something really

bad where you guys have to like burn off their their tattoo their symbol their patch yeah so like uh Yeah absolutely like it's it's like in the movies yeah so absolutely so they generally cover them up but I can't tattoo so we got to we got to come up with another means I've definitely so you hold someone down to cover up their tattoo generally they'll do it willingly really yeah like after they got beat up or something well it would be like either you're going to remove this or or there's two ways out you know

one is you take this off the body well we take you Out as simple as that and that automatically removes you from the gang Yeah by just so could you have went up at that time and say hey I'm done or are you too deep in I never so I have heard of that kind of thing happening um and but to be honest with you like I didn't want that at that point and maybe I could I don't know but that's that's the furthest thing from my [ __ ] mind I'm just trying to keep

going in the direction I'm going and exist in this World that I fit in in but do do the other gang members know your higher ups whoever you reported to know that you're using at this point too I don't know probably cuz you were breaking the rules absolutely but doesn't that seem a little bit hypocritical that you were calling out it's completely hypocritical and it makes no sense but you I mean you know how it is it's like um it's I don't want to say like uh like I had put in my work in I

had Developed this person who I am and and they would like talk about trying to do a disciplinary on me but like at this point they're like you go deal with that big [ __ ] and tell him he what he's doing [ __ ] up you know yeah and you're the you're the boss essentially uh I'm one of I'm I'm definitely one not high in the rankings I'm definitely one not to be messed with wow so out of when all sudden done how much prison time have you done uh about eight eight years And

out of that eight years how long were you getting Affiliated for the entire time entire time yeah even so I rode that out the entire time maybe a little over eight eight e uh Ian but I wrote it out the entire time and uh during the last time that I was incarcerated I could I they could like I think they could feel the presence um like something was different like I I've got [ __ ] books I'm reading I'm staying in my [ __ ] I'm staying to Myself they're coming telling me [ __ ]

I'm not interested you know like they could feel the presence of something different why what triggered that it mentally so so like so when I got out the time before I got locked up again like uh like I have man I'm I'm I'm in my 30s man I have nothing to show for it but but these [ __ ] tattoos you know what I'm saying a bunch of [ __ ] soot and burnt [ __ ] [ __ ] burnt spoons Like that's all I have like I've committed my entire life to some [ __

] that like I mean I've done all this crazy [ __ ] but when I transform and try to go into the world like I can't go in there and tell this dude that I'm trying to get a job hey man I ain't never let nobody [ __ ] hold me out like like yeah I walk the yard I'm the [ __ ] man in prison and he's going to look at me and be like yeah dude [ __ ] 15 bucks An hour I got you like so everything I had done up until this

point [ __ ] made no sense and so now I'm aging maturing Ing and I'm realizing like I have completely [ __ ] my life up man like I have made a mess of the one life that I get to live and what how old were you when you had this realization 34 would you say that was like the lowest point of your life I don't know man about the lowest it's just when I finally started like I maybe to me it Was I'd been in wor like worse situations but I had finally started to

realize that like like I'm going to die like I'm either going to fully commit to like so now I'm like trying to balance in my mind what that I have one foot in one foot cuz like I I I had started entertaining the idea of doing different you know what I mean I had and um I'm G back up a little bit you talked about Jimmy McGill so like I had got out this last time and I'm fully still Representing this gang right I had I had gotten married to this chick kind of like cuz

I was fixing to go back for a little time and I like so we we're married it was going to be like a proo plan and like I like so like I had I had like met Jimmy fully committed and uh my father passed and so I was a full-fledged opiate addict at this point like fin all heroin those kind of I was like uh and I overdosed bad I overdosed several times but this was the one that Should have took me out and so like uh anyway this chick um she leaves me on the

floor like I'm a big guy and we're living in this like really ratty shitty [ __ ] trailer house man and uh I follow in the bathroom floor in between the toilet and the [ __ ] cabinet wied up and uh probably with a spoon you know like [ __ ] like uh and uh she leaves me there man and she goes to Jimmy's house and like Jimmy and me were really cool Like and uh he he had tried to help me get clean he knew I was kind of messing up but like you know

Jimmy he's got a big heart he cared about me this is while Jimmy's in his position with the state no this is this is way before this so but he was clean by this point hell yeah okay yeah hell yeah and like we like I liked him like I really respected Jimmy in the movement he was heading towards and uh so he go he he she's like he was like where's John John you know Like he even though he knew I was in my addiction I was always his guy like he always made me like

I I I really looked up to Jimmy and uh he was like where's John John she's like oh he [ __ ] overd whatever she said you know and he was like what the [ __ ] so him and this other dude come over there to where I'm at and for whatever reason then like something woke me up before Jimmy got there but my legs my legs had quit working my body like was was like just [ __ ] and I crawl Army crawled into the living room and uh it turns out like my body

had died and uh for whatever reason I woke up but my body had released the toxins into it to like to seize my muscles up I don't really know what they were but my kidneys had shut down and released those toxins and so jimm comes in there he picks me up he throws me in the car and takes me to the hospital and he was like man if you don't do something man like you're going To you're going to die in your addiction and like it had never d on me to that moment that this

[ __ ] was going to [ __ ] kill me man but you didn't want to make a change though in that moment not in that moment no you still continued down and went back to jail yeah yeah I did um I already like I said I was already facing a little bit of time and um uh Jimmy had tried to advocate for me and you know of course I done this is I done messed up this F Going to be my third my second time down in Arkansas and uh anyway they decided um that

they were just gonna give me 90 days in county jail uh they're going to let me back out and uh I was going to do my thing well I done got married like I told you and uh I [ __ ] smuggle a bunch of Xanaxes in the county jail you know I'm prepared for this little stay and I slept for a while but like even then like in the Back of my mind like I knew that nothing was going to be different like I was still obsessing over getting high like I you know like

I was getting close that day I was getting excited because I knew I was going to go out there and catch a sack and do what do what I do and uh but after that moment like the conversation with Jimmy things were never the same man that like I did like that it like sparked in in the back of your mind that you wanted to change you Just may I [ __ ] could like maybe I [ __ ] could man give you a little bit of Hope like maybe I wasn't such a piece of

[ __ ] like that I saw myself as you know like maybe I was a decent human being because this guy who has no reason to [ __ ] with me whatsoever like I'm definitely not on this playing field at this point in my life like saw something in me that not even I could see when you truly Comm Comm to the change and you and you truly focused on getting clean How hard was it to convince other people especially with your reputation as a gang member so by this time um like I had fully

um like I had I had fully decided like I wanted to do something different uh no well let's let's back up so I get out I I try to go I I get out like I told you and I still got high and then I try to go to a treatment center and I go to this treatment center and they're like uh come back in a week it looks like you're serious and I'm like What the [ __ ] so I pull over and I tried to get on my GPS and put in to go

back home I had got a little hotel actually I didn't in my mother got it for me I didn't have a [ __ ] thing at this time in my life and uh so I go to get this hotel man and uh go back to the hotel and a [ __ ] cop like I guess God whatever you know put this cop right there because I was fixing to do a shot and like I I can't even handle him at this point you know like I'm OD and all The time because I'm not using like

I like man I don't want to [ __ ] use you know I'm trying to like space it out instead of just going all in and uh anyway um I get I get a cop gets behind me and they [ __ ] like come up they immediately run my name and he comes up he puts the pis he puts a pistol in the car and puts it in my face don't [ __ ] move you know and I'm like look dude the drug and I'm tell him where the drugs Are he gets the drugs they

arrest me and like it was just this [ __ ] release you know that I that this this is this may be over you know this may be over over you think that saved you that last arrest so yeah yeah I haven't used since that day wow yeah and what year was this how old were you so December 1st of 2019 2019 yeah and but you still had the gang initi the gang attachment full fledge full-fledged how did you get out of that so so when I went to prison the last Time like I told

you that's when they could sense something's different I was like man I'm trying to do some [ __ ] different and of course like yeah they thought I was fullish [ __ ] I hell I didn't even know if I was serious man and I had like started separating myself like there I'm not volunteering like I told you the call me Plan B I'm volunteering for this aggressive ass [ __ ] at one point and now I'm deliberately telling them like I don't Want [ __ ] nothing to do with this [ __ ] right

now like I'm trying to do something I'm reading I'm catching my bunk I'm I'm staying to myself I'm not over there talking [ __ ] acting a fool like I I'm literally trying to figure out what the [ __ ] is going on in my own mind so what's that first conversation with the higher ups and so honestly I I never even I never even had that conversation you never had to or no no I haven't so um I I guess they expected me To get out and do what I always did and maybe one

day I'm going to have to have that conversation in I don't [ __ ] know you know what I mean I'm ready for it are you afraid nah no and like whatever happens to me dude I fully [ __ ] deserve it you know what I mean like I committed to some [ __ ] I should have never to done in the first place but all the souls and [ __ ] that I [ __ ] their life up like like and I could tell it was never for me cuz I'm the type of Dude

like I would beat these dudes senseless and [ __ ] them up and then secretly I'm trying to pull up on them and tell them I'm sorry you know what I'm saying so are you like on the run from this gang right now what what no defin Rel definitely not like I'm on Facebook I I I put up where I work you know what I'm saying I think that like uh have people reached out from the gang no the ones that have like uh have tried to separate theel to or they have been Ex which

they call an ex and they have like been served or [ __ ] up and they took their way out but uh no like I I been I guess like one day it may hit me one day it won't but whatever does you know I'm fully prepared for it I probably am on some list somewhere are you like looking around like behind your back all the time like like you have an ax on your back no no if it's meant to happen it will happen I mean I can't just like I can't avoid it I

can't run From it I'm not I'm not fixing the [ __ ] live my life like that like I'm fully um I'm fully responsible for everything I've done you know what I mean and if I have to pay for it then that's just what it's going to be I mean maybe the universe is looking out for you too in that sense cuz you've had this realization yeah what have you been able to recreate and build for yourself since you've had this change so man when I got out like uh like I didn't know What I

wanted to do right so I get a job my brother like uh like he like he's he's a good dude like he's he's got a similar Journey He's just never been in prison never been in trouble never had to endure any of this kind of Life he's not not a he's not aggressive person whatsoever but he was a director for a treatment center right and uh like I thought like hey man like I want to try to help people like what the [ __ ] I can do to help them at this Point I don't

know but I know that I could help like uh they were trying to build this TR this uh treatment center and Branch out and get new homes for for recovering addicts to recover in right well that's one thing I'm good at I I told you is building things like so i c i snug my way in as a maintenance man you know and they weren't paying like um you know I used to hate myself for for for want to for supposed to be in this person like uh this Legacy or whatever Like this this person

in my dad's image that I obviously did not reach that I look hated myself and like I think that that kept me out there a long time is that kind of like should have could have would I should have been this I should have done this but for the first time in my life man I realized like that like like I am who I am and that's all I am you know what I mean if I'm may never be [ __ ] More Than This maintenance man at this Recovery Center making $12 an hour that

may not be who I'm supposed to be but for for the first time in my life you I was all right with that I didn't have to be the man I didn't have to be the coolest kid on the Block you know what I mean I did I I I understood the difference between respect and fear you know what I mean like nobody ever respected me they all feared me you know what I mean no nobody really wanted to [ __ ] with me they were just afraid if They didn't like I would [ __

] do something to him like to be in my circle was a safe place to be and so like I got this job making $12 an hour and he called me into my office one on his office one day and he was like what the [ __ ] do you want to do and I was like man I want to be a counselor and he was like okay so he um he let me kind of run some groups and it turns out like uh the things I could say like people relate to naturally like I

could I could tell the Truth about my story and and everybody had this similar Vibe or similar thing going on and at this time like the only real clean time I had was the last time I was incarcerated you know what I mean but there was something about that man there was something about that energy that feedback and Mya moments that I'm seeing them get that made me want to like even press further so um it gave you purpose essentially at that moment I think so man and they allowed me to get My CIT now

he didn't let me do too many groups and [ __ ] because like I tell you like he needed a maintenance man that's primarily what he wanted and so uh at that moment one of my real good friends man his name is Russell Boyd he's a peer here in the state of Arkansas really solid dude um got a crazy story too um but he introduced me to my current boss named BJ Brady and uh I told her like hey man I'm I'm a CIT which I mean I don't know like really what the [ __

] That was at this point because I just out a group every now and then and she's like oh okay well I really don't need that but I need somebody that can relate to guys and I was like okay cool I like so I was like working 40 hours a week at um this current job I had being the Rance man and then I also work 40 hours for BJ on the weekends and 2 days late at night and so like I was working all the time and uh whenever I did that like uh like

I didn't miss work you know I Was such a shitty [ __ ] employee in like I like the least I could do is just show up for these folks at this point in my life like I don't I have nothing to do I have nobody who really gives a [ __ ] about me you know like I have truly burned every [ __ ] bridge out there yeah and nobody's taking me seriously my mother my brother's not real sure about me you know and so all that disappointment that I laid down for so long

I'm trying to do something Different and so at this point like the Le my first [ __ ] go like I'm just going to show up to work like I'm going to be there on time every day and the more BJ got to know me like I had no idea like what like this woman has seen you know that's her job like she owns a re-entry Center I guess I should have told you that like helping men who are currently in prison to find a new way of life you know what I'm saying without all

this [ __ ] drama and Chaos like it Makes no sense to go to prison and that I can't stay the [ __ ] out and I and I and I hated like I hated prison like I I anybody who's get who who who's been to prison remembers the feeling when they go and the feeling when they get out you know what I'm saying and that feeling when they got out trumps that feeling when I went so I knew I didn't even life prison but yeah I kept going and so she started investing in me

man like she gave me a few Responsibilities like taking these guys to meetings she gave you the second chance you needed yeah man like she saw that something in me that I had that nobody else did man and sometimes that's all we need yeah someone that sees a higher purpose for us and and can help carry us to the next level yeah absolutely she um I mean like I've been there for three years now and uh I actually um at one point like I she offered me a job there full-time to Where I could work

there during the week and I did not have to uh that she has an outside Agency for mental health and for substance abuse counseling there and they were interested in me but my loyalty like I I I pride myself on this loyalty I didn't want to leave Terrell who owned the business my brother was a director at but I eventually um made that move man it was the best decision I ever made have you been able to rebuild Relationships with your family at all oh yeah oh yeah so like so my dad never got to

see me clean like he died when I was in full-fledged addiction but everybody in my family like they they they will reach out to me they like comment on my Facebook you know what I'm saying and and they um like they respect me as a man like I don't I don't like man you I was so [ __ ] up like out there like I jump in the car with my mother and like I'm I'm 30 years old man and we pull up to a driveth through I'm looking at her like hey man you're my

mom you're supposed to catch this bill like that's that's the [ __ ] scum I was man you know what I mean I I didn't even have money in my pocket but I'm such a piece of [ __ ] I thought she was responsible for this chick because she gave birth to me yeah like what does it feel like to have to stability now for probably a good portion of your life that cuz you missed Out all those years of not having any stability yeah what what's it feeling like for you it's crazy but just

like uh if you understand anything like the disease of addiction man like I I I obsess over everything so I'm able to get the job done like I just apply to different area of my life man like I make sure that all bills are paid on time because I don't want this [ __ ] house that I work so hard to get taken from it you know like I got a truck Payment now and I definitely don't want to lose that because the truck I had when I got out was [ __ ] up you

know what I'm saying like I came from a truck that was a little too close to a fire and got melted to to a brand new truck you know you got a reason to live now yeah yeah and and and like like man I had to say like I never thought that the journey just just getting off drugs and doing what I'm supposed to be doing as a human being and a man like where it Would take me like I got like I got I'm married to a woman who fully loves me with two wonderful

kids um that that like that you know I would have screwed their [ __ ] life up in normal circumstances like if if I fought if I found a a woman like uh that's that's my [ __ ] house you know what I mean like back then like I'm I'm my idea of love was like if I cuss this like I'm F to cuss this chick out man and I'm [ __ ] you [ __ ] and and and if she would say No please don't go like then I felt like she loved me you

know what I'm saying like that's how I was that's how that's how I like could feel her love but if she let me go and I didn't have nowhere to go like like get the [ __ ] out like I was like but damn she don't give a [ __ ] about me instead of just saying I love you and her saying love me I love you too like that's how I had that's how I needed her to show me love like I was completely [ __ ] up Ian how do you Prevent your kids

from going down that same path you took man I hope I hope they don't Ian but like I'm a firm believer like that a per like we're human beings man we're full of mistakes we make them on a daily basis and I have to allow them that same Journey that I don't want them to in like for nothing in this world do I want them to make anything or have to go through life or to um to be a part of some of the [ __ ] that that I was a part Of but I

have to understand it's a possibility you know what I mean yeah if you could go back to your teenage self and and sit down with yourself and just talk speak openly to that teenage self what would you say don't go to [ __ ] Hooters Hooters caus yeah that's where the whole thing initiated no but realistically like uh like man that like that I was worth it the entire time you know what I mean and that that like that if I put the energy Into something then I will see good results if I put bad

[ __ ] I'm going to see some bad results you know but some people like and I hate to say that like that they will they like and I I T talked this to some of our guys like at the re-entry Center like the the the reason they stay in there is because it's hard for a person like me to exist in this world after I've been the man in this other world cuz I may never be what I was in prison in this real world like Nobody May ever give me the respect I had

in there no that was never a [ __ ] guarantee but if I never had to walk in those Prison Walls again like it's a [ __ ] can win John John thank you so much for coming here today taking the time out of your day to come and talk to me you have an incredible story um it's not one that we've really uh talked about on the podcast um with the your deep roots to the gang affiliation and you know I wish you nothing but the best And and excited to keep in touch with

you and I'm glad Jimmy introduced us and um you definitely have a positive message and I think the viewers are going to appreciate hearing your story all right