we've come to Buckingham Palace in highly unusual circumstances normally we'd be discussing your work your duty will come on to that but today you've chosen to speak out for the first time why have you decided to talk now because and there is no good time to talk about mr. Epstein and all things associated and we've been talking to news night for about six months about doing something around the work that I was doing and unfortunately we've just not been able to fit it into either your shared your or my schedule until now and actually it's a very good opportunity and I'm delighted to be able to see you today as you say all of this goes back to your friendship with Jeffrey Epstein how did you first become friends how did you meet well I met through his girlfriend back in 1999 who and I'd known her since she was at university in the UK and it would be to some extent to stretch to say that that I think where we were close friends where we were friends because of other people and I had a lot of opportunity to go to the United States but I didn't have much time with him I suppose I saw him once or twice a year perhaps maybe maximum of 3 times a year and quite often if I was in the United States and doing things and if he wasn't there he would say well why don't you come and use my eyes I said that's very kind thank you very much indeed but it would be it would be a considerable stretch to say that he was a very very close friend but he had the most extraordinary ability to bring extrordinary people together and that's the bit that I remember is going to the dinner parties where you would meet academics politicians people from the United Nations I mean it was a it was a cosmopolitan group whatever describers as US eminence was that his appeal then was that what you because you you were perceived by the public as being the party Prince was that something anything that's also a bit of a stretch I don't know why I've collected that title because I don't I I never have really partied I was single for quite a long time in the early 80s but then after I got married I was very happy and I've never really felt the need to go and party and certainly going to Jeffrey's was not about partying absolutely not you said you weren't very good friends but would you describe him as a good friend did you trust him yes I think I probably did but again I don't go into a friendship looking for the wrong thing if you understand what I mean I'm and I'm an engaging person I want to be able to engage I want to find out I want to learn and so but we have to remember that I was transitioning out of the Navy at the time and in the transition I wanted to find out more about what was going on because in the Navy it's a pretty isolated business because you're out at sea the whole time and I was going to become the Special Representative for international trade and investment so I wanted to know more about what was going on in the international business world and so that was another reason for going there and the opportunities that I had to go to Wall Street and other places to learn whilst I was there were were absolutely vital he was your guest as well in 2000 Epstein was a guest at Windsor Castle and at Sandringham he was brought right into the heart of the world your invitation but certainly at my invitation not at the Royal Family's invitation but remember that it was his girlfriend that was the key element in this he was the as it were plus-one to some extent in my writing thing you threw a birthday party for Epstein's girlfriend girl in Maxwell at Sandringham no it was a shooting weekend shooting week just a straightforward straightforward shooting weekend but during these times that he was a guest at Windsor Castle at Sandringham the shooting weekend we now know that he was and had been procuring young girls for sex trafficking we now know that at the time there was no indication to me or anybody else that that was what he was doing and certainly when I saw him either in the United States I know when I saw him in the United States or when I was staying in his houses in the United States there was no indication absolutely no indication and if there was you have to remember that at the time I was patron of the NSPCC . campaign so I was close up with what was going on in those time about getting rid of abuse to children so I knew what was what what the things were to look for but I never saw them so you would have made that connection because you stayed with him you were a visitor a guest on many occasions at his homes and nothing struck you as suspicious during that whole time just for the record you've peed on his private plane yes you've been to stay on his private island yes you've stayed at his home in Palm Beach yes you visited Gillen Maxwell's house in Belgravia in London yes so in 2006 in may an arrest warrant was issued for Epstein for sexual assault of a minor yes in July he was invited to Windsor Castle - your daughter princess Beatrice's 18th birthday why would you do that because I was asking galloon but even so at the time I don't think I certainly I wasn't aware when the invitation was issued what was going on in the United States and I wasn't aware until until the media picked up on it because he never said nothing about it he never discussed with you the fact that an arrest warrant had been issued so he came to that party knowing police were investigating him whether it was it police it I don't know see this is the promise that I release at the time but I'm afraid he see this is the problem this is an awful lot of this was going on in the United States and I wasn't a party to it and I knew nothing about it in 2008 he was convicted of soliciting and procuring a minor for prostitution he was jailed this is your friend how do you feel about it well I ceased contact with him after I was aware that he was under investigation and that was later on in in 2006 and I wasn't in touch with him again until 2010 so I just it just it was one of those things that somebody's going through that sort of thing well I'm terribly sorry I can't be when he was serving time there was no call no letter nothing there he was released in July within months by December of 2010 you went to stay with him at his New York mansion why why were you staying with a convicted sex offender right I have always ever since this has happened and since this has become public knowledge that I was there I've questioned myself as to why did I go what was I doing and was it the right thing to do now I went there with the sole purpose of saying to him that because he had been convicted it was inappropriate for us to be seen together and I had a number of people cancel me in both directions either to go and see him or not to go to him and I took the judgment call that because this was serious and I felt that doing it over the telephone was the chickens way of doing it I had to go and see him and talk to him and I went to see him and I was doing a number of other things in New York at the time and we had an opportunity to go for a walk in the park and that was the conversation coincidentally that was photographed which was when I said to him I said look because of what has happened I don't think it is appropriate that we should remain in contact and by mutual agreement during that walk in the park we decided that we would part company and I left I think it was the next day and to this day I never had any contact with him from that day forward what did he say when you told him that you were breaking at the friendship he was what I would describe as understanding he didn't go into any great depth in the conversation about what I was doing what he was doing except to say that that that he'd accepted - but it was a plea bargain he'd served his time and he was carrying on with his life see what I mean and I said yes but I'm afraid to say that that that that's as may be but with all the attendant scrutiny on me then I don't think is a wise thing to do who advised you then that it was a good idea to go and break up the friendship does that come from the palace how much that came from so there were a number of people who so some people from my staff some people from friends and family I was talking to and I took the decision that it was I had to show leadership and I had to go and see him and I had to tell him that's it that was December of 2010 he threw a party to celebrate his release and you were invited as a guest of honor Oh in 2010 that there wasn't certainly wasn't a party to celebrate his release in December because it was a small dinner party there were only eight or ten of us I think at the dinner if there was if there was a party then I do nothing about that you were invited to that dinner as a guest of honor well I was there so there was a dinner I think he was quite as as you might put it but yeah okay I was there for a point I was there and did I get I'm just trying to work this out because you said you went to break up the relationship and yet you stayed at that New York mansion several days I'm wondering how I was doing a number of other things while I was there but you were staying at the house it was convicted sex offender it was a convenient place to stay there's I mean I mean I've gone through this in my mind so many times at the end of the day with the benefit of all the hindsight that one could have it was definitely the wrong thing to do but at the time I felt it was it was the honorable and right thing to do and I admit fully that that that my judgment was probably colored by my tendency to be too honorable but that's just the way it is because during that time those few days witnesses say they saw many young girls coming and going at the time there is video footage of Epstein accompanied by young girls and you were there staying in his house catching up with friends I never I mean if they were then I wasn't a party to any of that I never saw them I mean you have to have to understand that that that his house I described it more as a as a almost as a railway station if you know what I mean in the sense that there were people coming in and out of that house all the time what they were doing and why they were there I had nothing to do with so I am afraid I I can't make any comments on that because I I really don't know another guest was Jon Brockman the literary agent now he described seeing you there getting a foot massage from a young Russian woman did that happen no you're absolutely sure you can't remember absolutely sure so Jon Brockman statement is false I wouldn't I wouldn't I don't know mr.
Brockman so I don't know what he's talking about but that definitely wasn't you getting a foot massage from a Russian girl in Jeffrey Epstein cells know it might seem a funny way to break off a friendship afford a house party of sorts with a dinner it's an odd way to put is that that's a very stark way of putting it yes you're absolutely right but actually the the the the truth of it is is that is that I actually only saw him for about what the part that the dinner party the walk in the park and probably passing in the passage so let's go to that central part which was snapped friends of yours suggests that Epstein wanted that photo taken perhaps he'd even set it up do you worry that you were being played again new informations coming out since his suicide has made us reappraise that walk in the park we can't find any evidence or my staff and my people than I can't find any evidence to suggest that that was what he was doing I mean you can look at it in so many different ways the the fact the fact there is is that somebody very cleverly took that photograph it wasn't as far as I were I remember nor do my security people remember anybody being present or close because there were enough security around I mean the photographs of the security people are in the around in the photo so I could he could have done but I yeah I guess what I'm asked is do you feel that you were part of Epstein's public rehabilitation oh no funny enough I don't know I mean if if if he was if he was doing if that photograph was taken for that with that purpose in mind then it doesn't it doesn't equate to what actually happened so why wouldn't you announce this this breakup when you got back why wouldn't you publicly explain what you done did you worry that he had something that could compromise you know yeah do you regret that trip yes do you regret the whole friendship with Epstein now manat and the reason being is that that the the people that I met and the opportunities that I was given to learn either by him or because of him were actually very useful he himself not as it were as close as you might think we're not went we weren't we weren't that close so therefore I mean yes I would go and stay in his house but that was because of his girlfriend not because of him was that visit December of 2010 the only time you saw him after he was convicted did you see him or speak to him again 2010 was it that was it because I went well first of all I wanted to make sure that that if I was going to go and see him I had to make sure that that that that there was enough time between his release because it wasn't something that I was going into in a hurry but I had to go and see him I had to go and see him stay with him and stay in the house I could easily have gone and stayed somewhere else but the sheer convenience of being able to get a hold of the man is I mean he was he was in and out all over the place so getting him in one place for a period time to actually have a long enough conversation to say look these are the reasons why I'm not going to and that happened on the walk July of this year Epstein was arrested on charges of sex trafficking and abusing dozens of underage girls one of Epstein's accusers Virginia Roberts has made allegations against you she says she met you in 2001 she says she dined with you danced with you at [ __ ] nightclub in London she went on to have sex with you in a house in Belgravia belonging to girl and Maxwell your friend your response I have no recollection of ever meeting this lady you don't remember meeting her she says she met you in 2001 she dined with you she danced with you you bought her drinks you're in [ __ ] nightclub in London and she went on to have sex with you in a house in Belgravia belonging to girl in Maxwell didn't happen do you remember her no I've no recollection of ever meeting her I'm almost in fact I'm convinced that I was never in trance with her there are a number of things that are wrong with that story one of which is that is that I don't know where the bar isn't in tramps I don't drink I don't think I've ever bought a drink in trance whenever I was there do you remember dancing at [ __ ] no that couldn't have happened because the date that there's being suggested I was at home with the children you know that you were at home with the children was it a memorable night on that particular day that that we now understand is the date which is the 10th of March I was at home I was with the children I'd taken Beatrice to a pizza express in working for a party at a I suppose sort of 4:00 or 5:00 in the afternoon and then because the Duchess was away we have a simple rule in the in the family that that when one's away the other ones there I was on terminal leave at the time from the Royal Navy so therefore I was at home why would you remember that so specifically why would you remember a a pizza express birthday and being at home because going to Pizza Express in Woking is an unusual thing for me to do a very unusual thing for me to do I've never been I've only been through working a couple of times and I remember it weirdly distinctly but as soon as somebody reminded me of it I remember that I have no recollection of ever meeting or being in the company or the presence so you're absolutely sure that you're at home on the 10th of March she was very specific about that night she described dancing with you and you profusely sweating and that she went on to have possibly there's a slight problem with with with with with the sweating because I have a peculiar medical condition which is that I don't sweat or I didn't sweat at the time and that was a machine yes I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands War when I was shot at and I simply it was it was it was almost impossible for me to sweat and it's only because I have done a number of things in the recent past that I'm starting to be able to do that again so I'm afraid to say that there's a medical condition that says that it didn't do it so therefore is it possible that you met Virginia Roberts dined with her danced with her in [ __ ] had sex with her on another date no do you remember meeting her at all do you know you didn't meet her or do you just not remember no I have IIIi don't know if I've met her but no I have no recollection of the meeting because she was very specific she described the dance that you had together in [ __ ] she described meeting you she was a 17 year old girl meeting a senior member of the royal family never happened she provided a photo of the two of you together yes your arm was around her waist yes you've seen the photo I've seen the first girl how do you explain that I can't because I don't I have no again I have absolutely no memory of that photograph ever being taken do you recognize yourself look it was pretty difficult not to recognize yourself your friend suggested that the photo is fake I think it's from the investigations that we've done you can't prove whether or not that photograph is faked or not because it is a photograph of a photograph of a photograph so it's very difficult to be able to to prove it but I I don't remember that photograph ever being taken but it's possible that it was you with you that's me but but whether that's my hand or whether that's the position I but I don't I have simply no recollection of the photograph ever being taken the world has now seen the photo that Virginia Roberts provided taken by Epstein we understand in Guerlain Maxwell's house here's the problem I've never seen Epstein with a camera in my life I think it was Virginia Roberts camera she said a little code at one that she lent to Epstein he took a photo and your arm I don't remember I don't remember that photograph ever being taken I don't remember going upstairs in the house because that photograph is taken upstairs and I'm not entirely convinced that I mean that is that is what I would describe as me in in that in that picture but I can't we can't be certain as to whether or not that's my hand on her whatever it is left left side you think because I have no recollection of that photograph ever being taken so why would somebody have put in another hand you think it is you next to her in the photo but definitely me that's a picture of me it's not a picture of I don't believe it's a picture of me in London because when I go out to when I go out in London I wear a suit and the tie that's what I would describe as those are my traveling clothes if I'm going to go if I'm going overseas there's a I've got a plenty of photographs of me dressed in in those sorts of that sort of kit but not there just to clarify so you think that photo has been faked nobody can prove whether or not that photograph has been adopted but I don't recollect that photograph ever being taken and you don't recollect having your hand round her waist in girl in Maxwell's house on any occasion even if it was a different I'm sorry but if I as a member the royal family and I have a photograph taken and I take very very few photographs I am NOT one to as it were hug and public displays of affection are not something that that I do so that that's the best explanation I can give you and then and I'm afraid to say that that I don't believe that photograph was taken in the way that has been suggested why would people not believe that you were there I'm sorry why would I'm just trying to understand there's a photo inside Gillan Maxwell's house Golan herself is in the background why would people not believe that you were there with her that night how they might well wish to wish to believe it but there's a the the photograph is taken upstairs and I don't think I have a went upstairs in gallons house was sure that yeah because the because the because the dining room and everything was on the phone that was on the ground floor was and it was as you came in them as you came in the hall so I don't remember ever going up there I'm at a loss to explain this particular photograph if the if the original was ever produced then perhaps we might be able to solve it but you you can say categorically that you don't recall meeting Virginia Roberts dining with her dancing with her a [ __ ] you're going on to have sex with her in a bedroom in a house in Belgravia I can absolutely categorically tell you it never happened do you recall any kind of sexual contact with Virginia Roberts then not any other time none whatsoever because she said in a legal deposition a legal court document in 2015 she had sex with you three times she is not confused about this she said the first was in London when she was trafficked to you the second was at Epstein's mansion in New York that is a date in April I believe is that correct she said it was a month or so later yeah well I think the date that we have for that shows that I was in Boston or I was in New York the previous day and I was at a dinner for the wood band Trust in New York and then I flew up to Boston the following day and then on a day that she says that this that this occurred she they'd already left in to go to the island before I got back from Boston so I don't think that could have happened at all there was a witness there Jana Stolberg who says that you did visit the house in that month I probably did I don't think I've been one of the weird things I was staying with the because of the what I was doing I was staying with the Consul General which is further down the street on fifth so I wasn't I wasn't staying there I may have visited but I but but no definitely didn't definitely definitely no no no activity because in a legal deposition 2015 she said she had sex with you three times once in a London house when she was trafficked to you in Maxwell's house once in New York a month or so later at Epstein's mansion and once on his private island in a group of seven or eight other girls no no to all of them absolutely no to all of it why would she be saying those things we wonder exactly the same but I have no idea absolutely no idea she made these claims in a u. s. deposition mm-hm are you saying you don't believe her she's lying that's a very difficult thing to answer because I'm not in a position to know what she's trying to achieve but because I can tell you categorically I don't remember meeting her at all I do not remember the photograph being taken and I've said consistently and and frequently that we never had any sort of sexual contact whatever she spoke about to you outside the court in August of this year she said I quote he knows exactly what he's done and I hope he comes clean about it was nothing so if Virginia Roberts is watching this interview what is your message to her I don't have a message for her because I have to have a thick skin if somebody's going to make those sorts of allegations then I'm just going to have a thick skin and get on with it but they never happened for the record is there any way you could have had sex with that young woman or any young woman trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein in any of his residences no and and and without putting too fine a point on it if you're a man it is a positive act to have sex with somebody you have to have to take some sort of positive action and so therefore if you try to forget it's very difficult to try and forget positive action and I do not remember anything I can't I've racked my brain and thinking oh well when the first delegation is where the allegations came out originally I went well that's a bit strange I didn't remember this and then I've been through it and through it and through it over and over and over again and no nothing Epstein's housekeeper also in a Florida Court legal deposition said that you visited the Palm Beach residents around four times a year you got a daily massage four times a year that was what he said in a Florida Court legal deposition oh I'm just wondering when you look back now is there a chance that those massages might have been the services of someone who was being sexually exploited or trafficked by Epstein hmm no I don't think I mean I no definitely not definitely not and Ivan definitely did not visit his palm beach house three or four times a year absolutely not how many times would he say visited I in total probably four times in total throughout the the time that I knew him in fact probably that was the that was the place that that that if you see what I mean he was in the house more more there than other in other places that I was find him but it was usually because I was going I was going through and on somewhere else so it was a it was a day it was it was that was it you said in your statement from the palace at no time did I see witness or suspect any suspicious behavior yeah Virginia Roberts legal team says you could not spend time around Epstein and not know what was going on you could not spend time around Epstein and not know what was going on if you are somebody like me then people behave in a subtly different way you wouldn't first of all I'm not looking for it that's the thing is if you're looking for it then you might have suspected now with the benefit of a huge amount of hindsight the huge amount of analysis you look back and you go well was that really the way that it was or was it was I looking at it the wrong way but you don't go into these places you don't go to stay with people looking for that you couldn't spend time around him that was what they said you could not spend time around him and not know the other aspect of this is that is that that I live in a in an institution at Buckingham Palace which has members of staff walking around and all the time and I don't wish to appear grand but there were a lot of people who were walking around Geoffrey Epstein's house as far as I was aware they were staff they were people that were working for him or doing things I as it where I interacted with them if he weren't already to say good morning good afternoon but I didn't if you see what I mean interact with them in a way that was what are you doing here why are you here what's going on but you'd notice if there were hundreds of underage girls in under you but but sorry you wouldn't notice if there were hundreds of underage girls in Geoffrey size wasn't there not when I was there now he may have changed his behavior patterns in order for that not to be obvious to me so I don't I mean I you're asking me to speculate on things that I just don't know about you seem utterly convinced you're telling the truth would you be willing to testify or give a statement under oath if you were asked well I'm like everybody else and I would have to take all the legal advice that there was before I was to do that sort of thing but if push came to shove and the leaked legal advice was to do so then I would be duty-bound did you say because you've said there are many unanswered questions everyone affected wants closure you would help to provide that closure if there was if in the in the right circumstances yes I would because I think there's just as much closure for me as there is for everybody else and undoubtedly some very strange and unpleasant activities have been going on I'm afraid to say that I'm not the person who can shed light on it for a number of reasons one of which is that I wasn't there long enough so if you go in for a day two days at a time it's quite easy I'm led to believe for those sorts of people to hide their activities for that period of time and then carry on when you're not there Virginia Roberts lawyers legal team say that they've asked for a legal statement from you there is an act of FBI investigation now would you be willing to provide that again I'm bound by what my legal advice is legal advisors tell me Epstein was found dead in prison yes in August of this year what was your response on hearing that he'd died a shock some people think that he didn't take his own life well there again I'm not want to be able to answer that question I believe that centers around something to do was a bone in his neck as to whether or not if you commit suicide that bone breaks or something but I'm afraid I'm not an expert I have to take what the coroner says and he has ruled that it was suicide he's dead his girlfriend Galen Maxwell your old friend it was victims say complicit in his behavior that bit I can't help you with because I have no idea do you think that she has questions to answer about her role in this in the same way that I have questions to answer in the sense of what was what was I doing and as I say that that I was there to to my mind be honorable and say to him look you've been convicted it would be incompatible for me to be seen with you unfortunately somebody was standing around with a camera at the time and got a photograph of us it's one of the very few photographs there are of us but that was that was the case if there are questions that ghilane has to answer that's her problem I'm afraid I'm not in a position to be able to comment one way or the other lost contact with her it was earlier this year funny enough in this in the summer in the spring summer about what but she was here doing some rally so even though he had by then been arrested and was facing charges and traffic no no no this was this was early spring I think it was long because when was he arrested July no he's before July and that was the last time yeah because you discuss obscene at all no no actually funnily enough no not at all there wasn't nothing to discuss about him because he wasn't in the news it wasn't you know it was just we've moved on I want to talk about moving on arriving Epstein is dead yes the women are now being heard quite rightly how do you move on from this well it's an interesting way of putting it I'm carrying on with what I do I have a number of things that I have been doing since 2011 they're pretty well organized pretty successful and so I'm carrying on and trying to improve those those things that I'm already doing I wonder what effect all this has had on your close family you've got daughters of your own it has been what I would describe as a constant saw in the family we all knew him and I think that if we have a conversation about it it's we're all left with the same thing of what on earth happened why how did how did he get to where he was what did he do how did he do it and so it's it's just a constant sort of Noor I mean this this first came out in 2011 and it was just surprised to to all of us because the photographs were published at a separate time to when I was there and there was a sort of a question right what that's going on and as a family we discussed it and then in 2015 when the allegations were made in the deposition there was a sort of there was a sort of the in this is the immediate family not not wider family the wider family couldn't be more supportive but the immediate family it was more soul is about and we all just we're lost so it's just as the episode been damaging to the royal family to Majesty the Queen I don't believe it's been damaging to the Queen at all has to me and it's it's been a constant drip if you see what I mean in the in the in the in the background that people want to want to know if I was in a position to be able to answer all these questions in a way that gave sensible answers other than the ones that I've given that that gave closure that I'd loved it but I'm afraid I can't I'm just not in a position to do sit because I'm just as much in the dark as many people how do you reconnect with the public then know exactly what I'm doing which is to use and to continue to work with pitch to continue to work with idea and the things that I believe strongly in I'm not somebody who does things in competition with people oddly I do things in collaboration with people so I want people to to work together to come to as it were a solution to a to a bigger problem and so I got a number of people working together particularly in the education field particularly in and also in in in areas of of government and what they are doing so that we're bringing everybody together so that we're all pushing in the same direction an idea now does that we've been going properly now for two years we've got three and a half million people who've got a badge we've got half a million or just over half a million young people who were using the the service and I'll try to think what else we've but it's it's well it's designed for seven to fourteen year olds in the United Kingdom and it turns out it's done from five to 95 around the world so where it's being done in 100 countries now so we were slightly on the catch-up for this one I know we have to bring this to you've faced questions today on a very very raw subject there has never been an interview like this before I wonder what that tells us about the way the royal family now confronts these difficult situations has there been a sea change I think that the the the the problem that I'm we face in the 21st century is social media there is a whole range of things that you you face now that you didn't face 25 years ago because it was just the print media and I think that that that to some extent there is a there is a thick skin that you have to have and again I'm not a confrontation list myself I I would prefer to be able to as it were resolve things in a way that is sensible and so choosing to as it were get out there and talk about these things it's almost it's almost a mental health issue to some extent for me in the sense that it's been nagging at my mind for a great many years I know that I made the wrong judgment and I made the wrong decision but I made the wrong decision and the wrong judgment I believe fundamentally for the right reasons which is to say to somebody I'm not going to see you again and in fact from to that day forth I was never in contact with him the subsequent allegations are what I would describe as surprising shocking and a distraction but that's I mean that there are all sorts of things that are on the internet and and out there in the public domain that we just sort of go well yeah but I'm afraid this is it just never happened you've talked about a thick skin I wonder if you have any sense now of guilt regret or shame about any of your behavior in your friendship with Epstein as far as mr.
