Kfin Technologies Ltd Q4 FY2024-25 Earnings Conference Call

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 and FY25 earnings conference call of KFIN Technologies Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listenerly mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing the star then zero on your touchstone Phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Dhagaral from IFL Capital Services Limited. Thank you and over to you sir. Thank you sir. Good morning everyone and welcome to the Q4

FI25 Anise call of Kayin Technologies Limited. Today from the company we have with us Mr. Shrihan Nadila MD and CEO Mr. Vive Matul CFO and Mr. Amit Murakara head of global business finance M&A and investor relation. I would now hand over the call to Shikant for his opening remarks which Will be followed by a Q&A session. Thank you and over to you Shant. Thank you so very much DH and a very uh good morning and a warm welcome to all the listeners. Uh it gives me great pleasure to be uh back once again in front

of you. Uh calling out the financial performance of the organization. I'll give out some qualitative information beyond what is obviously visible. uh your organization continues its resilient performance Quarter after quarter. Uh as the saying goes uh uh tough times uh you know don't last but tough men do. A quarter that uh saw u a significant erosion on uh assets under management maybe even to a certain extent investor confidence in the overall market. uh Capentech continues to uh deliver to a resilient performance with its very diversified portfolio of solutions and services. Uh we continue to maintain

uh our position about uh risk management being one of the most Effective strategies this organization has adopted and will continue to do so. uh risk management from the standpoint of uh not being uh a single asset class, single country, single business process entity but to diversify into multiple asset classes, multiple business processes and into multiple geographies. Uh it is times like this that uh you know uh help the investors understand in terms of the power of the true diversification. In terms of the overall financial uh highlights, the quarter that had gone by, our revenue from

operations stood at roughly about 283 crores, up 24% yearonear. Uh in Indian mutual fund uh business obviously had seen a slight degrowth quarter on quarter. Uh but yearon year it continues to swell up. Uh overall international and investor solutions growth has been around 16 and a half%. uh I will call out more specifically in terms of a consolidation Of global business solutions into this particular line of business which was essay business uh if not for the consolidation our overall growth stands at about 27% and the overall full year uh growth of the international business stands

at about 46%. Our EITA stands uh close to about 122 crores it's up nearly 17% and a margin at about 43.2%. The pad itself uh has been around 85 uh crores and it's up about 14 and a half% And it margin remains about 30% broadly. So in terms of the overall quarterly performance uh it's uh uh uh you know in uh relation to the uh whether it is the number of DMAC uh account reductions into form of retail investors not necessarily staying put in the market or uh the mutual fund mark aum erosion as you

could clearly see uh the overall organization stood resilient in terms of the overall growth uh year on year and even quarteron quarter it is uh minor Tip up at about 2% in terms of revenue and similarly on the margins the full finance Financial year highlights of course uh stand at about uh you know we crossed the,000 cr uh turnover threshold close to about 1100 crores uh up nearly 30% yearonear uh and nearly every line of business has clocked about 30% uh growth whether it is pensions or whether it is mutual funds uh international so on

and so forth. Uh we continue to stay extremely focused on uh our provable Engineering uh delivery capabilities delivering cost efficiencies driving productivity. uh we have uh began our initial journey of embracing artificial intelligence. I'll speak about that a little bit more later in terms of how we foresee that to help in terms of driving revenues, our customer centricity as well as optimizing the cost structures along the way. We have a cash and cash equivalence as of 31st March close to about 660 crores. Uh and uh the a Dividend of 7.5 rupees per share has been

declared by the board and subject to shareholders approval shall be disseminated. Overall in terms of the business uh the biggest highlight uh Cape Tech has had to offer which many of you might have already heard uh uh in the earlier uh analyst meetings was about uh Cape signing a definitive agreement uh to acquire a controlling stake of 51% uh in the asset fund services uh Singapore Based organization. Uh this is a testimonial to our confidence in our abilities uh to uh deliver to the strategies that we have chopped up. uh M and uh as as

I've always maintained u you know is always uh you know long protracted and it is meeting of minds more than anything else. This is a large acquisition you know for Kin by standards uh you know by the stretch of imagination both in terms of its ambition as well as its financials that Have gone into it. Uh with this uh we would have uh you know summarily uh closed our large M&A ambitions you know for the foreseeable future. There will be uh minor uh you know plugins which may still continue to value it may have a

very thriving and active amendable board but by and large I'd like to believe that uh the larger positions or to the near foreseeable future you know we wouldn't be looking at it you know given our current intent is to uh Complete uh the structure uh integrate assimilate uh scale up and drive to our global ambitions you know broadly uh we continue to win mandates uh across uh business lines um solutions uh a business you know which has seen over 20% plus growth uh you know we have had a stellar year we have added nearly thousand

plus corporates into our roster getting the number closer to 8,000 by terms of market share we now uh are the service provider for nearly 50% of all n 500 uh companies you know listed companies uh we have done the top three uh of the biggest IPOs that have happened in this country this year whether it is budget housing finance or uh Hyundai so on and so forth uh the next bunch of large IPOs too are you know being managed by KF we continue to expand our market share in the alternate investment funds we continue to

expand our market share on the national pension system in fact by a Factor of three the overall industry uh has been growing at about 12% whereas G index market spain uh market share has been growing at nearly three times of that close to about 33 34%. Internationally too we have expanded our roster to about 76 uh clientele independent individual clientele with a total contracts of close to 100. Uh at this point in time as we all know we deliver both to transfer agency and fund accounting. Uh included in uh this International uh client win is

a very large deal uh again in the context of the international revenues that we speak about. It's a multi-year fund accounting uh you know platform given to a very very large trusty in fact the largest trustee in Malaysia. uh and uh uh the overall it's going to be a full service DTA deal. DTA stands for the distributed transfer agency as well as the end to end transfer agency and accounting for the trustee which means that all the Asset management companies who fall who roll up under that particular trustee will be serviced end to end by

giving tech. We have also won a full service tier deal in AMC uh you know large AMC in Philippines. Uh we continue to have a very robust uh pipeline into uh the international uh mutual funds uh business as we all know. Okay, fintex globe the international business is mostly mutual funds uh and transfer agency and fund accounting being the Business services we render for them. Whereas ascent uh to delineate and uh uh you know call out the complimentarity we have with them is broadly a private mandate uh fund administrator which means your hedge funds, your

private equities, venture capital, high frequency trading funds, digital currency funds so on and so forth. Uh so they specialize in that. Cape Fintech specializes in largely mutual funds, pensions, private retirement schemes, so Mass retail so to speak. Uh and uh these two entities together uh you know will be able to provide a full suite of service to any asset class to uh any country uh in the world. Uh as an organization uh you know we continue to expand our scale uh of uh operations into countries. As we all know you know we have initiated uh

you know starting of our services into Thailand last year. uh the contract has gone fully live uh into this year uh and with the Resounding success uh we are now able to see organic growth of pipeline in Thailand which is an area of geography which is of very very strong importance for us even as we have reached nearly 55% market share in Malaysia of all asset management companies that are present there right we have uh since then added uh uh you know by market share as I said you know in terms of nse issue solutions

close 250% the RTA the new RTA mandates In no quarter include several of the fintech companies including gem aromatics and you know biosciences companies so on and so forth. Uh this in conjunction with the IPOs that have happened in the previous year adds a a robust u annuity revenue into the coming year even as uh you know we are expecting and hoping to have a a pretty robust IPO uh year even into the coming one as well. uh that uh ensures that uh the businesses which are not linked to Marktomarket movements continue to grow beyond

20% to be able to provide that amount of uh hedge uh and risk management and diversity should there be a sideward or a downward movement of the markets. uh but uh lo and behold we have seen a a very sharp turnaround in April which you all must have witnessed yourselves to uh very early days but we have already seen a a reasonably quick turnaround of the AUM uh in the month of the month of course April is not done But looking at where we are the initial estimates point to a uh a growth uh over

March uh and in fact looking the numbers looking closer to the numbers that were there in Q3 of uh uh uh the previous year so to speak um in terms of the alternatives is a quick milestone. Uh we have now crossed you know we're reaching nearly 600 alternate investment funds as we speak today and market share has increased close to 37%. The overall AUM is at about 1.5 trillion rupees and it's Grown uh nearly about 50% yearonear as you know stand today. Uh we continue to add marquee logos uh in apart from of course adding

uh the new schemes of the existing clientele. uh some really uh important uh clientele that have added uh you know at this point in time include Kadara Capital, value quest of course been there for a while and we continue to add more schemes from each of these market global fund managers. Uh we have also ventured uh late Q3 that is Around October into wealth uh business uh trying uh to orchestrate uh similar amount of industrialized and innovative solutions what we have done in asset management business into wealth business. We have created uh what we'd like

to believe as uh the country's premier wealth management platform called empower wealth. Uh the platform is built on top of empower which is uh uh the core platform of hexag which we all know as an organization we have Acquired a bunch of years back. So while sex continues to deliver value in terms of order management solutions, fund accounting solutions such as uh net asset value computations, what have you on the back of that platform, the wealth platform has been created uh and uh within a matter of few months uh you know very happy to inform

you that we have signed up with five large uh wealth managers. Uh some of this was already announced in the previous uh quarter but In this quarter into the previous three months we have signed two more uh as two more wealth management companies called Thrive Wealth and Northern Capital. The pipeline for this business is pretty strong as uh uh many different wealth outfits uh you know will uh set up in India even as many of the legacy outfits are also looking at uh innovative partners such as Gentech to be able to move their non-core uh

functions such as operations and Technology and focus largely on customer acquisition and delivering value to the customers by generating significant alpha for the investments that they are making. Broadly in terms of the overall industry performance itself you know you have seen uh some of the charts clearly speak about uh you know FI25 was a breakout year by any stretch of imagination for the Indian mutual fund industry spectacular growth uh overall uh nearly 25% yearon year if you compare to the previous year uh notwithstanding uh the reduction in the Q4 of the previous year then the

year would have ended on a much much more robust manner but these are financial markets and there is always a cyclicality one should raise for it every month in three to four to five years and uh you know for us it's business as usual there is nothing to panic uh and as you've already seen there's been a sharp around turnaround Uh you know in that area continues to have a very robust SIP uh you know market share close to 40%. uh I believe and I continue to believe that that is probably the most important metric

uh to track to uh which over a period of time would uh you know drag up or drag down uh the overall AUM market share because the SIP market share is the one that truly is uh the resilient sticky uh and retail uh investment port uh you know folios unlike uh large lumpy Investments which come from corporates which tend to have a sporadic impact in terms of market share they can dissipate away rather quickly. So into the coming quarters and into the years uh my hope and expectation is that our overall AUM market share which

is now close to about 33% should inch towards that 39.4 to 40% of market share. It's only a matter of when and not if uh and I hope the continued outperformance of the AMC's who gave tech services today which by The way six out of the 10 fastest growing AMCs are with Kinte. So it is not just about historic performance. It is about where the velocity is, where the speed is. Uh and that's what's going to drive the future as the you know at age goes uh past performance is not necessarily indicator of the future.

uh and uh I think it is the current velocity in terms of the AMC's who are largely embracing digital embracing uh innovation and technology uh embracing Uh significant distributor related uh you know driven uh uh you know sales and marketing effects are the ones that uh I believe uh will have the fastest growth to accomplish and I'm very very happy to be able to and uh you know proud in fact uh to have a roster of clientele such as those including the ones that we have won in the uh recent past broadly in terms of

if you take a look at even the other asset classes I think you know there's been a Breakthrough uh here whether it is the number of AIFS registered whether it is the number of DMAT accounts that have been added into the ecosystem and uh the pension subscribers of course continues to grow at a smaller clip as compared to uh the asset managers I think India as a pensionable society is still some time away there have been significant efforts made by uh the regulator and under the chairmanship of the uh of you know the last two

and three in fact chairmans who Have definitely made a significant impact and uh it's a matter of time uh through innovative solutions such as what Kent is able to offer. We had created back in the day a solution called future uh where we can gift a pension uh and we are seeing uh you know breakout performance of that platform's adoption into corporates and I'm hoping uh that in time to come the overall pension subscribers expand uh significantly into the Country. Quickly moving on uh I will cover a little bit in terms of um the uh

the vast the value added solutions and services. It had been again our uh data intent to uh deliver uh you know superior technological solutions digital uh you know as frugally as we could and a lot of the solutions uh you know kept creates uh obviously for us to uh render solutions to our own clients and their clients who are the investors and distributors in some sense. uh but we Have uh found that many of these actually have a relevance uh you know whether it is as an offering that we can offer to the regulators uh

uh you know we have uh won the reg award uh you know we had given the previous year for our platforms. So most of the platforms that we build we are extending them to the regulators to the industry bodies and to the clients as well and that is where our value added solutions which is effectively to drive A higher uh revenue profile in terms of reducing the total cost of operation for our clients uh but increasing our share of wallet uh given the relationships we have and given the technological solutions we could create. uh very

happy to inform you that uh the previous year saw a 57% increase in value added solutions revenue year on year. Uh what are those? There are many of them. Some of them are platforms for monitoring insider trading. Some of them are uh APIs uh which extend to the fintech ecosystem to expand the overall uh book of business for them. uh it is uh creating some of the cutting edge data engineering solutions which help uh you know our clients improve their revenue uh in the scheme of things. Uh we manage uh the data engineering legs you

know for several clients and we also have created uh you know technological solutions of uh you know mobility stack uh right the entire whether it is a Websites and mobile apps for our cliental uh we are handling the social uh the analytics and the cloud components as well. Also happy to inform you that Cape has uh become uh one of the affiliate partners for AWS. Uh we have uh entity called uh you know Cape cloud cloud services. uh we are now taking the capabilities we have built uh to help many your cliental and uh you

know and that could be in any non-asset management space as well uh to migrate Into cloud as a strategy. So you know clearly cowing out a a fintech component of K fintech which is basically revenues beyond the asset management solutions is a very very important facet and uh our wins uh into the previous quarter uh you know coupled with all that we've done in the previous year as I said has given us a nearly uh you know 57% increase of revenue year uh the acquisition that we have done in the previous year while technologies uh

you know as we all know Is the one that specializes in the mobility stack of it all and that entity has uh uh given 150% uh you know growth in its uh top line uh in the single year and we'd like to believe that uh you know it has a significant amount of growth lying ahead of this. I've quickly covered the international footprint as I've already spoken in terms of the wins we've had. I called out the two important wins. Uh one is uh the very large trustee in Malaysia and as I said it's a

a full hexag deal so to speak. So this is not a transfer agency but it's a full scale fund admin deal uh and uh you know and a DTM the distributor transfer agency you know component of it uh right and we have also won uh one more in Malaysia uh you know which is uh uh which has been verbally confirmed and uh you know in time to come hopefully we'll have a clearance on that uh and another large DA deal in Philippines we have onboarded Uh you know three new funds in Gib City taking our

total funds to close to 30 making our market share close to about 50% in the GI city funds and with SN fund services should we include that obviously our market share will be you know far superior to that we intend to get to uh 3/4s of the total market share into the gib city uh you know with a combined strategy of you know 1 + 1 you know equaling 10 in some sense uh and you know we have initiated some of those Conversations in terms of operationally how do we align both the entities to drive

a faster uh you know growth uh as against individually competing obviously we are collaborating and then we would be driving the growth from here onwards uh and happy to also tell you that we have now reached 100 contracts uh in our international business. Uh and uh if you recolct uh the one of the points that I had made in the initial days was uh the contracts that we had been signing Initially were uh you know obviously the smaller and the medium tier AMC's and it's a matter of time the larger contracts tend to come in.

uh the last quarter we had announced uh you know a large contract win this quarter too uh the deal that I'm talking about uh the trustee win is also a materially large contract in the context of our international business also very uh happy to inform you that um uh you know after a protracted period of uh Marktomarket uh you know either degrowth or flat growth in Asian markets which did not honestly give us uh the gains of uh transfer agency revenue growing which if you compare with India Indian markets went And hence our MFTA revenue

also grew. But our revenue in international grew nearly entirely only because we kept winning new mandates. But the AUM per se did not grow because Asian markets did not see both the marktomarket movements As well as net flows. But this year FY25 saw the first year in the last four years both marktomarket gain as well as net inflows. which means that the revenue hopefully from now on would be on account of both new wins and more importantly on the back of the expansion of the AUM of the current clients. So the AUM grew nearly about

33% year on year into the previous year and I'd like to believe that this would be a sustainable trend from here On with that I would uh uh pass on the bet on to Vive to cover the financial performance and then we'll leave the floor open for questions after that. Thank you Shiran. Uh on the overall revenue performance while Shiran talked about that we have grown uh 30% yearonear uh and Q4 last year versus this year we have grown about 24%. Sequentially there is a degrowth of 2.5% largely driven by the marktomarket correction that happened

and some bit of Corporate actions in issue solutions uh which had uh you know given a reduction of 3% in the solutions revenue uh sequentially but overall uh a robust performance we have crossed,000 crores uh in terms of revenue. uh the breakup of revenue is more like mutual fund fee based revenue continues to be in the range of about 64%. The issue solutions revenue is 15% of total revenue. The international and other investor solutions revenue is about 14% of total Revenue. Within that now uh the international business is about uh you know uh continues to

be about in the range of about 5 to 6%. And uh we believe that uh you know the trajectory in terms of international business contribution will change with the acquisition of Ascent which currently is about 5 6% will move towards 15% in future 13 to 15% in future uh with the acquisition of Ascent and uh overall uh the AITA has gone up uh you know by 30.7% yearonear and uh same quarter last year versus this year is about 17% increase uh there is some impact of mark to you know the M&A due diligence cost of

about 12 crores that we incurred during the year which has uh you know reduce the AMITA otherwise it would have been about 31 and a half uh you know uh in in terms of uh the you know margins uh so in terms of the growth and and the AITA margins which are uh 43.9% for the year would have been about 45% for the Year but for this 12 crores that we had to incur to do a due diligence and for the quarter which is 43.2% would have been about 46%. So uh you know you are

saying you're looking at the operating leverage playing out and uh as the market supported us the margins have been pretty healthy. The PAT margin has uh gone up to 35 you know gone up by 35.2% 2% uh year on year and the PAT margin was 30.5% Uh for the year and sequentially also you know in terms of against last quarter there is a jump of 253 bips yearon year uh on the PAT margins uh sorry a dip of 253 bips on the PAT margin because of uh you know the expenses that we incurred on due

diligence uh we remain healthy in terms of cash and cash equivalent at 660 crores of cash which will be utilized towards payout of dividend that the board has recommended subject to Shareholders approval of 7 rupees 50 visa per share uh and uh you know the acquisition of uh you know the initial 51% about 305 crores will also be funded out of it. We continue to convert AITA to free cash flow at about 60%. uh while we continue to invest for future and capital expenditure to develop new products uh you have seen a healthy uh increase

in uh EPS uh you know about uh 34% increase uh versus last year and uh we believe that you Know in in times to come with the acquisition of ascent uh you know at least for FI26 it will be neutral and from FI27 uh we believe it will be value accretive uh we are Happy to take questions now. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue,

you May press star N2. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question Q assembles. The first question is from the line of Karthik Chalapa from Indas Capital Advisor. Please go ahead. Yeah. Uh thank you very much for the opportunity sir. Congrats on the quarter. Uh am I audible? Yes, please. Okay, great. Thank you. Uh just two questions from my side. First is on the other expenses uh apart from the due diligence was there any other chunky expenses uh in this quarter because

the Yony growth seems to be pretty high and if we could further break down uh what portion of the other expenses would you attribute to investing in growth versus maintenance? That's my first question. Yeah, I'll take this question. uh you Know there are expenses related to uh you know cloud expenses and licenses that we have incurred in terms of you know uh expansion and balancing strategy between on-prim to cloud uh which is a similar increase uh about 12 13 cr extra that we have in to uh ramp up uh in terms of IT strategy we

are looking at optimizing uh you know the cloud strategy with on-prim and this is something which we are developing the entire chassis uh the core chassis based On uh the latest technology and uh you know overall we believe that uh 19% of the total revenue that we have spent on uh it in the current year these are this 21% last year will continue to come down in the coming years. Got it. Excellent. Uh my second question sir is if I were to look at our issuer solutions uh that has actually seen uh increasing momentum at

least in the last two to three quarters purely from a corporate client edition point of view. In your opinion what is driving the strength and is this something that we can expect to sustain in FI26? Thanks Karthik. Um yes I I I do believe that uh uh so the issuer solutions as a business um a couple of things that are happening obviously tailwinds in the form of uh the new IPOs the number of companies that are going public is always helpful and I just want to caution that a company going to public does not give

any sporadic jump of Revenue for Cape Fintech uh given the IPO revenue itself is very little it is the annuity revenue that still matters so winning the IPO mandates will actually improve improve our run rate year after year. So definitely the number of uh IPOs uh uh you know is definitely a uh you know factor that bears well on it. Second, our commercial model of course is uh number of folios into unit pricing portfolio and expansion of uh demat accounts and the Regional participation always helps and which is what we saw in the previous year

and I'm hoping it'll continue for the foreseeable future by any stretch of the imagination the retail participation in India it's you know like most things are still under penetrated I think you know they will continue to grow uh three corporate actions u I think you know they a plethora of corporate actions but many of corporate you know always helps in terms of the activity that we do. There have been large scale uh uh you know u uh corporate actions such as the de mergers that we have handled say for example for vanta and so on

and so forth and these are all uh important activities or including ITC uh you know hotels de merger that gent had orchestrated uh so that always helps us uh and uh lastly I think you know we have we have also been uh you know focusing on transitions transition mutual funds is seldom uh you know there But transitions in corporate registry as a business issue solutions as the business is possible. Uh and given we have uh you know always been uh the the largest in the space uh and uh you know with our technological capabilities we

have significant value to be added to many an incumbent. So we have also been successful in transitioning uh many corporates from other RTAs into tech. So so broadly these are the uh you know reasons and these are all uh sustainable Reasons. I do not see these to be a one-time clip. In fact, issuer solutions if you see even the previous year and the year before do that have seen up north of 20% growth. Uh we would continue to uh you know drive attention to this and then you know uh see if we can even expand

it much faster. Uh given there are potential opportunities in terms of value added solutions in this line of uh business. Uh one of the things that I can call out is say for Example investor uh relations. uh the entire IR as a portfolio of every corporate uh is still done in a very non-industrialized manner and we are working on cutting edge solutions which will you know alter the ways of working for the IR as a function. Now with an 8,000 client roster uh you know even if you convert 10 15 20% of them into each

of these solutions uh they will tend to add that delta of 400 500 basis points of growth that is possible. Excellent. Uh that's it from my side. Uh thank you very much and wish the team all the very best for uh the for next year. Thank you Patrick. Thank you. The next question is from the line of supratima from Ambit. Please go ahead. Hi. Uh thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the K business you know what is the update there? You know when are you planning to launch that? And a connected question

to that is Kein has you know moved into different u you Know lines or you know different categories different products wealth being one you're talking about you know how you're expanding value added services on the issuer solution side that being other globally we have seen that RTAs or you know platforms like Kin are able to get into non-financial categories as well like healthcare or others is that an ambition for Kin as well and you know what are the other blank spaces that you could look at Filling with the current you know platforms and systems that

you have you know if you could help us understand that that would be very helpful two I want you to understand you know is the uh cost associated with the M&A that's around 12 cr is that done or is some part of that cost going to come in FY26 as well and lastly on the ESOP side you know there has been a new ESOP grant due to which the cost on the ESOP side has gone up this year. How should we think About ESOP costs going into FY26 if you could help on that? Those are

my three questions. Thank you. Sure. Um the first question in terms of um uh K business um so we uh we have in the previous quarter updated that we received uh in principle approval from SEBI uh for uh in the K business. Uh we have completed our platform build. Uh at this point in time we are awaiting FEB's final approval. Our readiness at this very moment is we are literally a minute Away from launching our K solutions the moment we get approval from the regulator. So our preparedness is absolutely uh you know done and we

believe it's a matter of time and hopefully into this quarter you know we should have started uh our K business. Uh related uh to that uh is in terms of your question about how uh you know the value added solutions can actually permeate beyond the financial services industry. Uh we are not Purposefully working in that model. Should however the solutions that we are creating find resonance in other industries we are happy to consider them uh in terms of extending uh you know those opportunities. Let me give you few potential possibilities. I think the first and

foremost we at the very minimum need to exhaust the financial services the BFSI sector itself before even going that far. As you all know we Are nearly entirely uh only on uh the financial services and that to within only asset management. we do not have a play in insurance or banking and NBFC so on and so forth. There are solutions that we have created however which have uh you know which are funible and which have relevance in a non-asset management industry. For example, uh we have created what I'd like to believe is one of the

you know best uh anti-moneyaundering uh monitoring Platform in the country. is called uh in in pro and whether you are an insurance company whether you're a banker NBFC anyone who onboards any customer needs to do these kind of screenings and our platform is uh you know definitely uh as applicable to any of these companies as much as it is to asset management industry and it is applicable to any country in the world as much as it's applicable to India because these are all global lists so to speak right uh Similarly there are uh the API

as an economy extends well beyond in well beyond from asset management industry to you know various other industries. So to that extent you know we're already looking into uh you know nonBFSI uh sorry non AMC but within BFSI beyond that I do not uh believe we have any special uh interest at this point in time and as I said if there is a resonance of any of our solutions for other industry we will definitely you Know consider those yeah uh in terms of the M&A uh costs for the AFS uh uh all the costs have

been booked uh into uh the quarter that had uh gone gone by. Uh so that is fine. I think the other one is in terms of ESOPs. Uh ESOP was ESOPS were given the previous year. Uh you know I'd expect some ESOPS to be given this year as well. Uh to a certain extent it is probably wise to uh you know factor in certain amount of esops to be given. We are in a knowledge Industry as you all know it's an asset light model. We don't have plants and machinery. Our assets are our people. Attracting

retaining talent is uh probably one of the most critical uh job uh you know as uh the leader of the organization or my uh leadership team have. Uh so to that extent uh you know it is also uh not just as a retention tool but also it is our responsibility in terms of wealth creation for the people uh who are directly responsible For the wealth creation of the broader shareholder community. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abijit from COC Securities. Please go ahead. Okay. Hi. Uh good morning everyone. Uh

I have a couple of number questions. First is if you could break down the uh international uh alternatives pension bit into the subsegments. Uh second one uh is that uh in the Balance sheet I see a a non-current asset held for sale uh item which is about it's not a big number but just curious what that relates to and third one is a is a broader question which is uh on the international side uh and the alternative side if it's possible to quantify the the sales pipeline and then secondly uh again I think uh this

been discussed earlier as well but if you could uh you know talk about the the competitive environment in those markets Uh in terms of uh you know who are the other players you're competing with and uh you know how how important is uh you know pricing uh in those uh deal wins that'll be all thank you sure I'll pick up the first one on the breakout of the international other investor solutions uh also the balance sheet item I'll take the last one thank you yeah yeah the balance sheet money so the uh you know the

international business uh you know the breakup for uh You know the international piece within the overall PI is about you know uh FI24 uh was 19 crores and this year is about 156 crores and uh that is international is about uh 48 crores and uh AIF is about 58 crores web is about 12 crores NPS is about 11 crores and GBS is 27 crores same thing last year was international was 36 crores CI was 34 crores, web was 5 crores, NPS was 8 crores and GBS was 34 Crores. On the uh question on the uh

you know the balance sheet item held for sale. It is basically the asset which has been generated which will be transferred to the MF central JV that we have formed. So as in when the investment is uh you know they get the license EOP license the asset needs to be transferred to them that is why it is shown in the balance sheet as asset held for sale. Over to you Shrian. Thank you. uh the international uh business uh uh in terms of the landscape of the competition uh it's going to be horses for courses u

uh in terms of whether if you're competing in mutual fund space um we uh you know and and it varies by the country of course u is broadly um uh you know if you talk about Malaysia we truly do not have a likelike competitor uh who delivers end to end uh you know solutions like how we do it in India for Example uh we end up competing with in-house uh uh and the captive uh so to speak uh there are few exceptions where uh bank based administrators say an HSBC or a stand chart by virtue

of them being the custodian and a fund accountant uh as I keep saying you know grudgingly deliver transparency services uh as well but broadly it is uh you know probably competition is largely you know with with the with with the captives and same is the case with uh in the Philippines Market as well but when you look at the private mandates uh of course uh you know the competition is uh you know a little bit more again depending upon the nation but if you see countries like Singapore and Hong Kong um and even much of

the west for that matter you know whether it is the offshore locations of Cayman and what have you uh large international global fund administrators uh will be there we compete with them. Uh FEX uh group would be one such one. SSNC global, IQ, EQ uh right and these are the uh firms and some of those firms actually are there in Gib City also uh you know if you see today so on the private minded space we compete with them. So whether it is AFS competing with them or Cintter competing with them in Gib City uh

how much is pricing an important factor it is important uh no doubt about it uh but I won't necessarily say that is the most important I think in a private mandate Space unlike in the case of a public mandate space uh transitions are possible because uh the lineage of the funds won't be very large the number of investors won't be very large the history isn't as significant as in the case of mutual funds uh given the transitions are possible. Uh a good number of the cases it happens is largely because of uh the service standards

go to market. Uh many of these fund houses tend to launch schemes Rather quickly. You know there are fund houses who can launch schemes literally every month, every two months, every 3 months. And it is uh you know how nimble uh is your admin uh to be able to make sure they go uh live as well in terms of whether setting it up the backend systems or if you're managing the LP and the GP portals uh you know how quickly are you able to you know bring them up what is your uh capability in terms

of advising them on the IM itself uh and uh You know securing the right kind of licenses uh a lot of advisory uh you know advisory functions are also delivered in that space uh yes pricing is important But uh several other factors are even more important in the private space. So be both both AFS and cap and can compete with a different set of uh competitors depending upon which market we deal with. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Before we take the next Question, we would like to remind participants that you may press

star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Sarak from Aria Capital. Please go ahead. Hello. Uh Mr. Sartik, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead. Hello. Uh yes, we can audible. Yes. Thank you for the opportunity of uh sir. So basically you and camps are continuously Investing a lot in the uh in the technology space, right? So how your technology uh how your technologies can be different from CAMS? Um so so there are areas where we compete there are areas we collaborate for example we collaborate on MF

central we compete with each other on mutual funds and alternatives uh but as you know Cape also is in other businesses uh uh you know and and likewise camps is also in businesses where gent isn't Technologically uh one we both use different tech stack altogether we are on Microsoft and uh if my knowledge serves me right I believe is on Oracle um in terms of uh you know operating model it could be slightly different. It's not right for me to comment uh you know how they operate. I I mean I only have as much insights

into it. What I can tell you about uh surely is uh that uh you know Kentech prides itself as a Tech first company uh first and foremost. Second, uh we constantly have uh you know u uh run the you know run and changing uh the bus which means that you know we have large businesses where we constantly have to you know run you know as the scale increases complexity increases regulation increases but we also need to have a mechanism to forward invest and uh you know completely replatform uh and that is exactly where our investments

I'd like to believe are Far higher Uh if you see our spend of tech as a percentage of revenue which is a parameter we track to 5 years back it used to be about 7 to 8%. Uh the year that had gone by it has risen to almost 23 to 24%. So that means on a revenue that has expanded from nearly 350 crores to over you know nearly 1200 crores in a matter of four to five years. Our share of spend on tech also has moved from 8% of the 300 crores to now 24% of

the 1200 odd crores revenue that we're talking About. And a lot of this is to uh modernize uh keep ourselves future ready. Uh we believe that the volume expansion will probably even outpace the expansion of the AUM in times to come. Uh and uh the cyber security related aspects are extremely important uh you know for the kind of and the nature of the work we uh you know perform. uh as you as you could imagine nearly eight out of 10 financial investors any uh in financial investment in the country Eight out of 10 is served

by Capef in one capacity or the other if you because you know you are a shareholder in a company you know you probably are receiving your dividends computed by us you're a mutual fund investor you are alternative fund investor you're a national pension system investor so on and so forth so with that level of uh complexity also adds a responsibility in terms of our spend in the direction uh we have always uh been uh pretty uh uh Nimble in terms of the value added solutions. I've called that out already the growth cuz we do not

want to look at uh any function within the company as a pure cost center. We have been successful in converting most of our internal functions into revenue centers and technology is no different. So not only does do we spend enough on tech, we are also converting repurposing the solutions we are creating for inhouse as a solution that is also relevant to Other companies and hence we are able to generate certain revenue outside of it. The other important factor I'll call out is our data and cloud journey. I think we have definitely been the first and

the foremost probably across the capital markets in India to have adopted a complete cloud and data migration strategy as early as 2019 2020. we have successfully completed our migration into uh uh you know AWS. Uh and it is not just about for the sake of migrating Data but it's about your ability to create business solutions and value based on that ability to uh you know crunch pabytes of data in uh you know few seconds and help our clients grow. uh and that is where many of our platforms like Digix or Parus which are adopted by

SEBI to many of our data engineering solutions you know adopted by many of our clients and the distributors. So these are uh you know the differentiators as an RTA we are Able to provide to our clients so that they can grow at a much faster rate compared to the rest of the industry. So that's that's largely about uh you know us and we continue to uh you know invest on new edge tech. I spoke about AI you know we are drafting a corporate level policy on adoption of AI uh you know it's a buzzword uh

you know uh everybody uses it but but you will you will see the real world use cases of you know I'll give you one example uh on the data That we crunch from the cloud the status reports that we are creating that goes out to the industry is entirely written by AI so we do not use any human being to actually generate those reports at all so that means comprehending natural language processing taking the data providing the insights systematically by the platform itself is you know one such uh is one such uh you know aspect

of it and I'd like to believe there's much more to come in the coming weeks and Months okay sir I understand uh sir uh I have a follow-up question like we have been investing a lot in the technology uh technology stack so just wanted to know one thing why we have not win any contract from the last uh mutual fund that have launched last eight mutual fund we have just won one one. So what could be the possible reason for that? There will be multiple reasons for uh you know wins and losses. Uh we have

won Uh 10 out of 10 mutual fund houses before the few losses that we have uh you know had in the previous uh you know few uh years. Uh and we had signed up with one of the marquee mutual fund houses just in the last quarter. We have already made that announcement and see beyond that point we have to win deals which make commercial sense. Winning for the sake of winning makes no value at all for us and when we won all the wins that we've had obviously there is a Response from the market and

that response eventually meant that there because of the severe undercutting on the processes we did not find some of those deals accretive in terms of business. end of the day I have a responsibility to my shareholder to drive a profitable and a meaningful business. So it is sometimes important to lose the trees for the goods. Okay. Uh also sir I have seen that uh one of the mutual fund has shifted from Case into camps. So what is the reason and is there any uh issues in the loyalty barrier in the favor of CAMS? So there

were 10 mutual funds that have shifted from CASMS to KFin over the last 15 years. I hope you're tracking to that. The fundhouse that has shifted uh from Kin to uh CAMS uh you know is um uh is a fun house which has an AUM less than few hundreds of cres uh and I think the affiliation was largely in the context of uh some of the key management Personnel who joined that entity uh belong to camps back in the day. uh so they just wanted to work back with the organization they were they left earlier

on. Yes. Uh sir just wanted to know uh the last as you have told I'm sorry to interrupt uh Mr. Sartek could you please come back in the queue for further questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pranoj from JP Morgan. Please go ahead. Hi thank you. Just three questions. One Is any mutual fund contracts that are for renegotiation in FI26 that we should watch out for. Uh second, I think there was a previous question on the international deal pipeline. I'm not sure if it disclosed that. So the deal pipeline for

yourselves and for accent if you can disclose that and lastly the 12CR M&A expense was all in 4Q or was it distributed between 3Q and 4Q? Thank you. I'll answer the last question then sh You can answer the first two. The M&A expense is broken up into two quarters Q3 and Q4. Yeah. Sorry, what is the quantum? So the deal pipeline, let me answer that. Sorry, I missed to Cindra answer that one. Uh our Cintex uh deal pipeline in Southeast Asia is close to about $25 million at this point in time. uh and uh you

know the conversion rate if you saw on the last six months had been pretty uh you know solid uh with uh uh nearly Seven large uh deals uh you know to have been signed um and that value that number of 25 mil you know is consistently uh increasing. I have not included uh the silent market in that number just yet uh given we have gone live and we are in the process of now looking at uh nearly the entire market and to add that to the pipeline. So the pipeline of 45 mill is broadly amongst

the countries of Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore and Hong Kong excluding Thailand and you know I'll be able to add that number uh shortly. Um I'm I'm sorry what was the other question? Uh also on a steel pipeline if you can discuss at this point in time uh and also any mutual fund contracts that are for negotiation in FI26 we should be aware of. Correct. Uh so it's ascent uh fund services first of all you're not taxing this uh so ascent uh the overall pipeline uh you know they their pipeline is you know Larger uh in the

context of multiple geographies that they are present in present in 18 different countries uh from and of course you know we are still in the early stages of integration in terms of understanding the financials etc very well. We just signed the definitive agreement. Uh it is not right for me to comment just yet uh into the coming quarter. As we spend more time with the organization, we'll be able to give you the pipeline. But broadly, it Is uh larger uh than our international uh pipeline at this point in time and you know continues to expand

faster. In terms of the contracts up for re renegotiation, yes, there are about uh uh two uh AMC contracts up for negotiation this year. Okay, understood. Would it be possible to uh give the size of those AMC's? Uh uh one is a large AMC, one is a midyear AMC. Okay, got it. Thank you Shag. Thank you. The next question is from the line of the Panjin Go from city. Please go ahead. Hello. Uh good morning. Hope I'm audible. Yes, you are. Hi. Yeah. So, just a few questions. Um first you know on the employee expense

growth number for FI 2025 uh would it be possible for you to kind of break this number between uh fixed cost inflation u new employee additions and maybe uh others in terms Of more deployment on the sales side or business development side or product side. Uh second uh would be you know when we look at the issues solutions business this year obviously the folio growth has been quite strong. So again I mean yeah if you can break it up between uh primary activities driving this uh folio addition versus uh more companies that you're getting from

competition and maybe others. Uh the third is uh on the domestic alternates and this is more Qualitative um you know is the entire portion of the revenue uh NVT in nature or uh uh uh is there some portion which is uh more transactional based and lastly you uh in response to the previous participants question when you mentioned the deal pipeline or your proprietary deal pipeline on the international side uh was it uh in terms of uh AUM or uh revenue um out there I'll cover uh and and sincerely request everyone to limit a few questions.

Um VC You can cover the item on the cost. on the uh issuer solutions uh the the total folio edition in the previous year was 9 million folios you know which is pretty robust and uh I think uh with the exception of u um you know one uh you know specific transition nearly all of it is organic which means that it is all uh the folios that have uh been added for the companies we have been servicing you know for the past bunch of years the IPOs that have happened obviously they Happened through the years

uh so the full annuity value of it only will come into 2026 this year that is right uh so to that extent a broad component of the revenue is from folio last year uh I think the total revenue coming from the folio maintenance was close to about 45% and the corporate actions was close to about 35% the rest of it is corporate events uh like uh you know conducting e AGM and e voting so on and so forth on uh the deal pipeline line it is revenue Not aum uh because the AUM usually runs into

billions of dollars at the basis points we charge so the the $25 million that I was talking about is purely the revenue potential not the uh AUM uh there was a question on alternate investment funds uh in AI if usually there is no episodical one-time revenue at all so this is purely annuty uh in fact uh uh you know you'll always see a lag of revenue because it usually takes uh you know months two two three months For a fundhouse when it launches and onboards an RTA for us to set ourselves uh you know uh

keep ourselves operational ready for them to go live and then they get the funds it's only after that the AUM actually has been uh you know uh factored uh do we get revenue so there is no one-time revenue if anything you will actually have a little bit of cost that we would have incurred before the revenue hits at this point in Time you want Yeah, I'll cover that on the employee cost. Uh you know the largely the increase in headcount is more to take care of the volume of transactions that have increased in uh domestic

mutual fund number of funds that have increased in alternate business and the number of new clients in the issue solutions business uh and the growth that we are witnessing in uh web and hexag uh to a lesser extent. uh you know we also have ESOP cost of about 11.3 crores which was incurred uh in you know as an addition to what was incurred last year and next year again you will see an increase in the ESOC cost because more employees will get covered in a new scheme which was law new brands will come in uh

and we we do expect uh you know around anywhere around 18 to 20 crores of esoft expenses to come in the next year so it's more volumedriven while The volumes have gone up by 33% year on year. The Increase in uh you know the number of employees has been marginal of about 5 to 7%. Uh got it. Uh thank you all and all the best. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sankit Gora from Aendespad. Please go ahead. Yeah. Uh thank you for the opportunity. Uh uh so a couple of

questions basically. um uh as the ascent gets uh integrated with us in large part Of the current year and maybe fully for the next year. So is it fair to say that given the AITA margins of that company are lower uh to start with? So our AITA margins which are closer to 44 will fall below 40 for a while before inches back to 44 kind of a number. Is it is it a fair assessment to to do so? Hello. Yes, mathematically absolutely yes it will. I mean but again keep in the context the total revenue

profile is about 18 roughly $18 million. Uh and you Know Kintex total revenue into the coming year obviously is going to be much much higher. So the impact will be marginal at a percentage level but at an absolute number level it won't be dilutive. Got it. And and uh u uh you you said the uh couple of mutual funds will come for repricing. uh uh just just wanted to understand uh I mean if I calculate the the yield came for the full year around 3.63 63. Uh so so so you you you see uh a

a contraction uh to to be much higher uh a meaningfully higher or or it will be naturally a telescopic pricing impact to to play out in MF revenue. uh sit early to predict that is obviously a negotiation and a discussion and as we engage with our clients into this year we will be able to have a better understanding but uh nevertheless you know you're talking about one two AMC's on a base of 27 AMC's and their AUM versus the total amum and the amount of you know any amount of discounts that can go into there

can be some compression but I wouldn't anticipate uh it to be you know materially high okay got it and last one uh see in company RTA business mean if I look at last two years history 23 and 24 uh your revenue portfolio was around 10.2 10.3 rupees it has uh meaningfully fallen to 9.4 it's almost like 8 9% depletion in the realization portfolio so so so just Wanted to understand um this 9.4 four is a new normal or or because your IP activities were little more uh and therefore the revenue per portfolio looks optically lower

and and it it might improve in in 26 with with IP activities coming down. I think it's a combination of all. Definitely your observation about a lot of IPOs happening in the year which means the polio is counted but the revenue is not counted for the full Year. Obviously mathematically it will look uh and it will appear to dilute the revenue portfolio. Uh that is definitely the first of it. Uh secondly the growth uh of which company and which folio is clearly not in our hands. uh and we have uh clearly negotiated contracts where the

unit pricing varies by the client that we deal with. So today if a company X has a much larger retail participation because a company has done well it share price is doing well a lot of investors Are buying that share versus some other company's share and depending upon the unit price of both of them obviously there will always be a certain amount of fluctuation that will happen. So broadly uh you know it'll be a combination of market forces. It'll be definitely the number of uh you know there are a lot of IPOs uh optically it

will appear as if there's been a little bit of uh you know uh reduction but this is not a business where discounts etc uh you know are Discussed. So so and if anything there is actually uh you know contract price revision upward revision that happens for a select set of companies. So, so broadly you know I I do not anticipate this to be any structural reduction in the portfolio pricing. Got it. And and last one hexag revenue can you call out and and how much it contributes to global and AIF. See it's uh uh we

don't it's very tough to look at it that way. Uh because Hexog's value transcends beyond the revenues that are booked in the hexogs books itself. As I said, we created an entire empire wealth as a business line within a matter of few months. Uh you know it's it's already about you know 20 cr business for us right and uh you know the alternate investment funds for example the revenue that you see there uh unlike in the case of mutual funds we do both transfer agency and fund accounting for AIFS. Now fund accounting As a solution

is rendered on top of empire which is a hexag platform but the revenue is continues to be booked in the business line of AIF so to speak. Uh right. So so those are the tactical reasons but broadly it had been uh you know uh an extremely strategic acquisition for us and you know absolutely uh you know uh the one that's helping us fuel our global aspirations. Got it. And and maybe last one the mortgage business means means the global Business services uh this 25 crore revenue for the full year uh means any investments any revival

in that business or or or or you see um the the demand coming off and then this revenue see a declining trend as we have seen in last two three years. So we have uh uh formally and it's a it's a position both from the management and our board uh to not to invest time, effort, monies in that business. Uh as we all knew from the beginning, it's an Outlier. It is not an asset management business. Uh it was a business that we have created at the behest of our earthwire joint venture partner computer share.

We created a center of excellence for them and we're delivering some revenues in the form of in the style of BO if I may. Now in the context of our strategy of being a global fund administrator, it does not feature in the list of things that we want to do. So consequently uh and also uh I guess This also coincided with uh in general mortgage uh you know uh as a line of business in the US coming down quite dramatically over the years. So we we are not interested uh to scale up this business. uh

we will continue to run whatever is left of it but we will not you will not see us spending any time effort uh either organically or inorganically into this business any plans to sell it off uh well as I said you know there isn't Too much of proprietary in it it's just a bo style work uh right so uh we use clients platforms and we use our people so if we do get an opportunity we'll think about it but broadly you will see this business naturally scaling down over a period of time got Okay, perfect.

Thanks. That's those Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kishirit Saraf from Tusk Investments. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for Taking my question. Uh I have just one question on the Black Rockck Alladian platform. You mentioned in the presentation that u you have presence in Canada. US is not mentioned yet. So just want to understand from a licensing perspective and a go-to market perspective uh where are you as a company and would you require those licenses and would you go ahead and acquire for those licenses? Sure. Uh so Gintech

has cliental in Canada uh right and hence Canada is mentioned US is not mentioned because we do not have any clients in the US. Uh, Black Rockck of course is not our client. Uh, we are their preferred partner by virtue of formally uh, getting onboarded by Black Rockck uh, in the month of late January uh, this year. uh we by virtue of being a partner preferred partner uh for Black Rockck to implement Aladdin and and Aladdin uh as Thinkstack today has roughly about $20 trillion of uh global funds. Uh which means that we as one

of the preferred partner has access to compete and win uh any of the fund managers who are currently on board Aladdin platform. Over the past two and a half three months uh we have uh been uh working with Black Rockck uh to fully comprehend uh the capabilities of the platform allin because it's something that we need to know because we will be uh Adding services and solutions layer on top of black rockck we will have to integrate uh the black rockck platform with empower platform because empower is the back office platform whereas alladin is the

front office platform. So that integration work has been initiated. There's a track on the go to market from the sales angle in terms of how to approach the sales on and so forth. So this is a a little complex process you know as we engage as we fully comprehend As we've complete our integration onto the platform. Uh we will uh be creating our right to win solutions and you know then we'll be approaching the market. which is probably a quarter to do away in terms of clocking revenues. But uh obviously as it's important to go

that far to be able to understand cuz there even the tiniest of conversion uh in terms of a clients can be a materially large contract for KFintech. So it's better invested uh to sharpen the eggs At this point in time uh and make sure that you know when we hit the market uh you know there is every reason for a fund manager to consider gent as against anybody else uh you know in terms of the solutions right I'm uh one out of less than 10 uh empanelman on this platform uh any sense on the win

rate that you can get in terms of uh the other platform the EU and how how are how the process there um I'm I'm sorry I'm not sure I Understood the question the line was also wasn't very clear sorry so you are one among the less than 10 uh empanelments on the alladin platform so just wanted to understand yeah so as one out of less than 10 of the empanelments on Adam just wanted to get a sense of uh what win rates you think you can get eventually or sort of you know any sort of

aspiration you have there because the others would be also sort of looking for a share of that pie Uh what are you looking to differentiate with respect to empower wealth or any of the offerings that you're looking to build into this yeah so uh the eight other uh administrators I think the list is uh is is in the public domain they include large entities like BNP Paribas Fund Admins and MUFG and you know others there are eight of them and all eight of them currently service this $20 trillion so there is nobody else who Does

that uh right and we could be the ninth one in the context what is our right to win uh as I said uh we are in the process of integrating the systems and you know capturing the solutions we believe that uh unlike many other fund administrators in that list uh we We have our own homegrown platform which is empower which does an excellent job in terms of uh you know fund accounting capabilities. We manage three4s of the insurance and three of the pension Industry in India. eight mutual fund clients. Five of those are the clients

of our competitors from TA but we manage their fund accounting. uh and uh uh you know uh once we integrate these two solutions and in the context of the large big data solutions that we have, we believe that pricing can be uh a big uh first step in terms of making your presence felt uh in conjunction with uh you know go to market uh and the analytics around it. I know that Analytics sound very very cliched uh but I can assure you in terms of uh you know how difficult it is for legacy companies to

be able to deliver those uh as frugally as we can uh so so it is largely uh you know a superior in terms of technology uh fully integrated empower solution into uh Aladdin uh right and uh you know a price point which uh should be compelling enough uh for uh you know bunch of fund managers to cut And it is not necessarily that anybody needs to transition. Uh as I said almost all of these funds continue to launch new schemes and new fund managers are also onboarded. So this is an ongoing dialogue with the black

rockck as a larger entity that we are having in terms of what is the uh right go to market strategy and they have been extremely accommodative uh and graceful in guiding us into this process of go to market. So we are working with the Global uh uh you know the sales organization of Black Rockck to be able to get there. Thank you. Congratulations and all the best. Okay. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pra Jen from Motila Losal. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Uh just a couple of questions. Just extending the

question on Black Rockck of the previous participant. What is the kind of concentration today Amongst the uh eight other players that you have mentioned and which is in the public domain? uh is there a concentration wherein you know a couple of them have say 80 80% 90% shares today and so it's kind of difficult to entrench into that kind of a uh uh domain. Uh that would be my first question. Second is on vas the share has gone down sequentially in this quarter. Uh anything to read into it or is there a seasonality there or

what what kind of Will transpire there? And last question u you know now that we have kind of you know uh filled in a lot of pockets with uh so many positions and everything do you think the next leg of growth could come from uh using your existing technology and skills to move to to a different adjacencies in the BFSI space uh like banking or some other aspects of the business u uh which which can help to grow organically more. Yeah, those would be my questions. Thanks. Sure. Um on the uh Black Rockck, I do

not believe there is any concentration uh risk. Um many of them uh have uh you know large uh you know portfolios that they are managing. Uh the concentration risk does not impact uh our ability to win. Um I think we need to keep in mind that these funds are not doiciled in any one country and as a fund manager and as a fund administrator let's take any fund X uh right and if that fund is currently based in Cayman Islands tomorrow they Can start something in Ireland they can start in Dubai they can start in

Abu Dhabi they can start in India uh in gift cities so on and so forth and as you move and set up funds in various different geographies the fund administrator need to have the capabilities to be able to deliver to all types of funds in all the countries which is where you know there is no one who is uh you know master of all right Who understands every type of funds every type of business process in every geography uh and uh hence uh even if there is a client uh who is probably a very large

client of one of those fund administrators eight of the fund administrators it is not necessary that the next fund launched by the same fund manager goes to the incumbent. It is strongly possible that say for example if it's in Gib city we probably are best positioned as compared to the eight Other fund administrators. So, so I do not uh so one there is no huge concentration risk yes there are probably the the top three you know who will have a bigger share but there is meaningful share for all of them uh and I do not

necessarily believe that having a large market share with anyone uh you know precludes others from participation into that large you know pool of funds that is there um in terms of um The bad revenue sequential item I think it's a that that's absolutely you know uh there is no specific trend in it uh you know because these are not like annuity contracts right so we win a new contract so for example you know we would have won uh a good number of data engineering contracts of our clients and of our competitors clients in the previous

quarter and that revenue could have been booked there uh and sometimes some of these contracts tend to have a Slight spillover effect into the coming quarters so I wouldn't read too much into the sequential component of it given it is not annualized or an annuity revenue as against you know contracts that we win and deliver uh and then obviously we get on to the maintenance mode for us to have annuity revenue but that would be at a smaller clip of about 20 or 25% of the total value so to speak and my last question on

the adjacencies I I'm so sorry but would you be able to Repeat that again? Yeah. So what I was saying was uh you know whether the next leg of growth for kayfin would come from extending your existing skill sets and technology to other adjacencies in the BFSI space. I I mean can it come from there? The answer is yes. But do we want it to be like that? The answer is no. I mean I think we we are just literally scratching the surface of our global ambitions. uh acquisition of uh ascent And uh you know

empower integrating it for global fund admin solutions and services uh is our northstar uh right whilst continuing to grow uh in the overall India's ecosystem as you've seen our market share whether it is alternatives whether it's pensions whether it is mutual funds uh you know has been rising you know quarter after quarter year after year on the AUM in terms and the number of funds and there are a lot of solutions that our country Itself needs and warrants now in addition to that probably the only The only other item that we really want to be

focused as management uh would be our international expansion uh you know uh to be uh anchored on the essence acquisition uh we believe uh that our 100% of our time effort and focus uh is needed uh will be needed uh for us to achieve these goals and ambitions uh and we don't believe uh digressing into say banking industry for example payment Aggregation some of our competitors get into that space or account aggregation and bunch of others uh we do or our insurance for that matter uh you know they will they are subscale uh they will

never be able to offer the opportunity as the current uh you know strategy that we have chosen in terms of opportunities of growth. So we will be focused in the narrow confines of asset management, wealth industry but drive lot of depth into business processes, lot of breadth And diversification into geographies if Thank you. Thank you ladies and gentlemen. Due to time constraint, this was the last question for today's conference call. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Dh for closing comments. Thank you sir. On behalf of Capital I thank the cafe

management for giving us an opportunity to host the call today. Before we conclude the call V would you like to add any closing remarks? Thanks DH. Um I think uh this is this was past year was uh a year you know which was filled with growth and getting into new businesses like K and getting into new geographies with ascent coming in. uh we continue to maintain uh a guidance of 18 to 20% topline growth and 40 to 45% evict margin. uh while we will see the integration of ascend in the coming 3 4 months uh

we believe that it will be uh you know uh neutral in terms of uh you know a bit margin impact and It will become accretive in FY27 uh and and uh we will