[Music] you're listening to the why that work podcast presented by storybrand doai if you've ever wondered why certain brands Trends or cultural phenomena find success While others don't you're in the right place every week we unpack why something worked then give you actionable insights that you can use in your own life now let's dive in with your hosts Donald Miller and Kyle Reed K re the first episode of the why that work podcast is upon us we're here on awesome brand new set yeah one of the reasons we're doing this podcast and talking about best practices and why things worked is just because you and I are always having these conversations one of the things we realized is in these conversations about why things worked that there's a lot of value in these conversations that yeah not just for me and you but for other people to hear as well yeah uh you know some of the things I've I've already written down as some ideas for some shows is like why does Tik Tok work yeah have you thought about that I've thought about that from the perspective of of social media a lot yeah I me immedi what's funny is immediately when you say why does Tik Tok work my brain starts going starts listing reasons right and then you want to actually go to artificial intelligence say Okay analyze this and get all the stories out of that another one is like uh around the office there's a lot of people here who are big fans of like Taylor Swift so I'm asking myself are we going to do a Taylor Swift episode I think we should really yeah well it's a good you even want to go there there's so many landmines I know I feel like I should people are very touchy and very okay you tell us what we're going to talk about let's transition us out of that I'm willing to go but I think we need mediators I want to talk about and I don't know if you're going to let us do it but you know if we're going to agree to it tattoos because they're everywhere tattoos were like I have a tattoo now that was a totally like rebellious crazy like why would you mark your skin permanently and now it's they're totally socially accepted and all that kind of stuff i' love to do an episode on the history of them what the utilitarian purposes of them were early on when it became a cultural identity that stuff is going to be I think really really fun yeah we have other conversations with Top Gun Top Gun Maverick top gun Maverick we've actually we we've we've put down a date on the calendar to record that one so that one's a go today though what are we going to talk about Frameworks Frameworks why should we start with Frameworks you think I think because it is a Frameworks and the way I think we're going to be able to Define them hopefully and the way we're going to talk about why they succeeded actually explain why almost every episode that we're going to record from here R out with what it's actually about that in other words like top gun Maverick which we're I think we've greenlighted uh is a framework the movie itself is a framework uh the roll up to the movie is a framework I see what you're saying yeah and I think once you understand once you understand what Frameworks are why they work how they work and maybe how to create them you can change the world yeah and a lot of the stuff we're talking about seems like they follow a framework and so every episode is probably going to exam a framework it's the operating system that everything is operating on in terms of intellectual ideas I would actually call framework something like a mental map oh okay it's a it's a map that you can actually get your head around where you are where we want to go why we want to go there how to get there but it's it's it's almost like a a map of an idea map yeah I feel like that's one of your superpowers is discovering Frameworks for businesses for yourself yeah I know for me over the last 10 years I've discovered I didn't realize it it was kind of like peeking behind a curtain going oh this is all just structured Frameworks yes people have just created a better process than I have but kind of just that revelation of that over time of realizing that everything I'm doing whether it being being a dad being a worker being a better husband whatever even golfer it's just around a framework it's around a process so I guess my question is as I'm as we're talking here is how would you even Define Frameworks I would Define frame Frameworks it's a great question uh and probably get some push back from the audience or at least some some midrash but I would Define Frameworks as uh rules uh and boundaries go more yeah yeah so so um you know if you're going to do a like P90X is a framework right so the rules are for the next 90 days you're going to eat this you're going to get up you're going to do this workout on day one this workout on day two uh There are rules that uh maybe help us understand and activate and execute virtually anything in fact I just put together my my rules for 2025 workout and there's three resistance workouts R1 R2 R3 there's a cardi one that is symbolized with the letter c and I put up a calendar an an entire 2025 calendar on my gym wall and I've got to write R1 R2 R3 or C or H which is I was in a hotel room on each of those days every single day of 2025 has to be filled and you know these are 20-minute workouts some of them so you know you just got to get down to the the garage and lift the weights and get out and write your thing on the thing that the whole idea even the idea of Step One put a calendar on your wall step two figure out five different exercises with 10 reps and the weights and then call that R1 R2 R3 the next day C for cardio H for if you're in a hotel room that everything I just said is the creation of a get in shape framework so that that's what a frame that's an example like it's rules and guidelines it's processes that you would take to streamline activity now for everybody listening if you can turn whatever you're doing into a framework you can help a lot more people because they can get their mind around it so much easier but yeah I think the discovery of Frameworks for me personally was groundbreaking it was a total shift in my career cuz blue like jazz and a million miles and a years and father fiction there weren't Frameworks really maybe father fiction a little bit but there weren't Frameworks in those books and then I did a a consulting job for Accenture the big powerful uh you know consulting firm and they needed me to create a framework based on some narrative ideas and that framework was a project management framework and then I thought well that would work for marketing and all of a sudden I was pinning a framework that I don't even think I knew what a framework was while I was writing it but that that started everything and I think every book I've written since then has been a framework wow so that's how you came up with the story brand framework yeah it's a derivative of a of a project management framework that nobody ever I mean you know 50 people saw it you know at a consulting firm I I didn't you know I I I I I started my career as a writer I wrote Memoirs and so I would read an Lamont I would read Frank mccort I would read you know I'd read books and then I'd try to write my own memoir based on some of the the way that they wrote theirs and they were vulnerable here and then they got to the point here and they kind of did a deep dive here and then they started chapters like this and they ended chapters like this what I didn't realize I was doing by reading all these books and trying to imitate them in some way or at least use what's working in their book in my own voice to to write my story is I was actually like an archaeologist slowly uncovering Frameworks you know you you know William zinser his book on writing well is Frameworks on how to write non-fiction M uh Ray Bradbury has a book on writing Stephen King has a book on writing and then slowly I got I as I began to uncover oh wait wait these are Frameworks I didn't think of them as Frameworks I thought they were just advice on writing yeah but every these authors had their Frameworks and so I started using these Frameworks and my books got better yeah in fact my first book sold 10,000 copies my second book sold 1. 4 million and I would say the difference is I discovered Frameworks between those two when when even before that when did you for your early life were you noticing Frameworks were playing a part in your life and kind of learning about just the were you aware of that when you were working on stuff I don't know if I was aware of it but I I had the uh I had the the privilege and strange experience of growing up in a Southern Baptist Church every Pastor who got up there and gave a sermon was had turned a passage of scripture into a framework you know I was indoctrinated in that every week and every Wednesday night because my mother went to church on Sundays and on Wednesdays and uh I was indoctrinated in these these in sort of system speak but really when I probably between prayer in the art of Volkswagen maintenance my first book and blue like jazz my second book I discovered narrative Frameworks I discovered Robert mcke yeah and Steve Taylor who's a dear friend to this day and I went to uh Southern California with my roommate Jordan green and we attended a Robert mcke story seminar Robert mcke is actually famous for sort of yelling and diminishing the people in his audience like he if you ask a stupid question he's going he's going to let you know and he's going to let you know loud he'll even kick people out so everybody's afraid of them so that's kind of fun but he teaches these he teaches this how do you open this the movie how do you close it how you know what happens in the act two midpoint climax all of that stuff he's he's wildly entertaining and certainly very brilliant he wrote a book called story and uh and it's really good that was my introduction to a narrative framework and really my introduction to really formalizing processes and later I read a book called save the cat by Blake Snider that book story a book called uh the seven basic plots all the way back to Plato's Poetics all of these are explanations of how story structure worked so uh I developed my own story structure and put it into building a story brand and that book sold a million copies yeah and so you know I went from using Frameworks discovering Frameworks being indoctrinated in Frameworks using them to to write better and then ultimately creating one and uh and frame you know I never even knew it but Frameworks have really guided my entire life and benefited me yeah I I that clicked for me I was talking to a friend not too long ago he jumping into executive coach and super sharp guy I think at one point he was lamenting to me a little bit of like why am I not getting more clients or like what's going on here well he needs a framework on clients framework I said the thing that yeah you're doing it there can't help it step one a lead generator step two qualify those leads and it just hit me in the moment I was talking to him and I I think you you've rubbed off on me so much but I just said what's your framework like you have no you're talking you you want people to hire you you have no process I I can't Define what you're doing and I think that was the lightball moment for him and for me in that moment of going oh if I want to grow this or if I want to be successful in this area if I don't surround it with a framework I it's not I can't I'm not going to be successful so even to your analogy about exercising it's almost like you've taken the thought out of the actual process cuz you've you've you've defined I'm just going to follow these steps it's going to get me to where I want to go yeah and that that's a very interesting point Kyle because I'm convinced that the brain looks to the brain is always looking for cheat codes absolutely remember that game shoots in ladders yes where you could actually take like a shoot and Skip like 30 Paces yeah my girls love do that Candy Land they're always hoping if they hit the one yeah yeah that's a framework when you hit that like weight loss framework y you you're skipping a bunch of steps and you're making everything easier what what what the the human brain's attraction to Frameworks is actually that it saves them mental calories yes the the brain burn is between 6 and 800 calories a day about 20% of the calories you burn depending on your weight and all that kind of stuff is buil is burned by your brain and it's also always trying not to burn those calories because it's trying to conserve them in case you're you need cognitive resources later in the day so it's always trying not it's actually weirdly trying not to think yeah and so when you actually say um you know here's a great way to lose weight it's 90 days you're going to do this what you're saying is you don't have to actually think about any of this you don't have to make decisions you don't have to do the research just do what I tell you to do in this order and at the end of it according to television they look pretty good yeah exactly yeah they also work you no 100% you're right I I think that's so fascinating because I don't I think a lot of us are walking around we don't realize that that is what we are doing we are looking you know one of the things listen you driving to work today drove on a framework absolutely yeah the road is a framework yeah I didn't even really kind of pay attention it just guided me along I think that's the thing that's interesting about this is even to some of the things I've talked to you about is my view of what's going on right now across the media landscape is it's about curation so and for me I think everybody is not everybody that's a little exaggerative but a lot of people are Outsourcing their thinking to people they trust well we always have yeah we always have so for someone at you know listening to this and and I've got a lot already running in my head around Frameworks like H how would someone translate this to a framework for themselves or or how can they even their own ideas yeah or even like I'm thinking about like my morning routine is all structured in framework and if I follow that I have success so someone listening to us I think a natural question they're wondering is is we' talked can how can I make a framework why Frameworks are important but like now how do I make a framework for myself business that is that is a question let me let me take say this um Six Sigma bills for over a billion dollars a year Abraham maso's hierarchy of needs discussed and taught in every school in this country and rightly so the four Ps of marketing another marketing framework SWAT analysis strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats very very popular framework The Lean Startup methodology uh Simon synic is a great framework Creator he really is he really is brilliant at that absolutely yeah he flipped the whole framework on his head but then walked you through framework yeah yeah I mean you know I think we love him because he simplifies very complicated ideas and also he's just a likable Guy The Golden Circle framework is his jobs to be done is a framework that helped into it double its stock price in only two years did you know that no I had no idea yeah they Incorporated a framework and they doubled their stock price because productivity increased so much the business model canvas you've heard of that right you know that's been used by millions of businesses worldwide the story brand framework listen the story framework helps you say it clearly and I couldn't and I I hope that're we're the world leader on that on helping you say it clearly so you know Frameworks are really important if you are a thought leader or want to be a thought leader there's a lot of people who have ideas out there and let me tell you the difference between a smart person with ideas and a thought leader is Frameworks 100% that's it hberman is a smart guy his new book protocol turns him into a thought leader cuz he's turning all the stuff into actual processes and protocols which is a framework so book might as well be called Frameworks yeah well look at like James CLE he's written what one Atomic habits that's a Frameworks book he wrote it how many years ago I mean it's still going it's a best practices of some of it is the best practices of existing Frameworks but he's a genius at making them even more simple absolutely the framework is having figured out what works yeah and I think the the the reassuring thing to me is that's then your unique That's What Makes You unique is your perspective I believe on a framework yeah you walk in and you go this is my morning routine framework and this is why I do it and these are the reasons and you hear that from me you go oh that's interesting I've never thought about that and then I hear yours and then we go back and forth but it's a unique perspective on how I but it's still structure I don't just I have you know two kids I don't just randomly wake up like I've there's a reason why I wake up at the time I do because of the goal I have to get me somewhere and the framework keeps me going on that yeah tell me more about you know we've been kind of going around a little bit of like how can someone create Frameworks or show up to Frameworks well yeah I I would say the the first rule would be turn it into rules okay you know so you're looking for uh let's just call them steps you know steps to creating a great Instagram post yeah yeah you know well the first thing you're going to figure out is well what are best practices and you know we're kind of doing this now and you and I because we we do the story brand Instagram feed and we're discovering well you know if you're out outs side we get more likes weird things if you wear a colorful sweater you get more likes you wear a cool hat you get more likes if we're driving around on the fj40 you get more likes if we actually do it from here and also if we lead with the problem when I start talking about it we get more likes if we you know all this is best it's it's summation of best practices right so we could actually probably by now create we haven't done this but we could create a framework around Instagram and by the way I already created in story. social media post Rules gued by rules Guided by hidden rules that you're not seeing you're typing in what's the problem what's the I want to talk about and then it gives you the talking points based on rules that you never you never even read so it's incorporating Frameworks in that way yep so um I think the first thing is rules and the second is you know run those rules past best practices you know every recipe is a framework and by the way I'm the guy in the kitchen who really goes that can't just be a I mean can't you just pinch some salt why you got to do a teas and i' I've made some really bad meals because I won't follow framework and I've learned just you know based on my wife's brating of me follow I learned to follow Frameworks um and so you're you're really you want to think of it as a recipe a series of processes or and also combined with a visual that helps people understand it so the mountain is often used the triangle is often used uh you know these you want to find my my framework for growing a small business is based on an airplane yeah so you know the airplane framework you want a visual that you can walk people through um you know I've given the story brand talk now to probably over well over a million people yeah and it's a seven-part grid that slowly comes to life it's a TED talk now by the way you can go listen to it just Donald Miller Story brand Ted Talk and in 20 minutes I go through a grid that is the framework that I created that has highs and lows Y and it visually helped people understand the seven steps yep to you know clarifying your message man there's so much already like why Frameworks work yeah it it makes a lot see them everywhere you are if you watch the news tonight it's a framework absolutely if you read it you there there there are there's an order of the way things are done and even the way that copy is written is a framework inside of a framework yep and to think that you're just showing up and they're just there's no way no way which is why I love like you I think pressfield talks about just showing up and writing and like sitting down and hour which by the way the war of art is a framework that's right right I mean he that that book The Brilliance of that book is he really created a framework on the psychological War it is to create art and there's something I think in our brains thinking it can't it's not easy but it can't be that easy that we just if I follow this and show up and put in my uniqueness to this it can work yep I can make a business off of this oh man there are so many people listening to this you know if if you can teach a dog knock to bark when somebody knocks at the door yeah but you don't want to just say I teach the dog not to bark I teach them the stop barking framework yep or I teach you to teach your dog the Stop and as soon as you say the stop barking framework you're worth about 10 times more than just I have this magical ability that you cannot you know we should talk about that Kyle the reason Frameworks are so important for Thought leaders is other people can teach them that's right you know if I if I create a framework other people we have I don't know how many uh private Workshop people who go out and teach story yeah absolutely and we have a thousand coaches now who teach either story brand or or the small business framework and so um that was another reason that I started creating Frameworks is I want to stay married so you know it's like if I if I if I if I'm on the road all the time teaching these things winging It sharing my wisdom y i i can't be married because my wife won't stay married to me because I'm never home so now I've got other people out there an army of people actually doing that and it's fantastic and they're loving it too yeah absolutely and you're helping them make money and and they're helping their clients make money yeah yeah I always i' I've defined goals this way but I think Frameworks work this way as well as if you know you imagine you get on a highway and if there are no Lanes there are no guard rails oh man that's a great analogy go you there's no structure we've probably all been in countries that are like that absolutely insane once you know the rules of the road with our analogy here then you can go okay I know I know where to go I know how to get where I'm going and now I can work backwards to get there I think a framework is very similar what a freaking valuable episode for it's been valuable for me yeah it's been fun want to go create more Frameworks I think uh couple takeaways is is first off look at all the Frameworks around you notice but I really think that everybody listening to this has some unique thing they figured out that they know and one of the things could be holding them back something is they just have not put it in a framework yet and I know I think the artist in a lot of us goes it can't no that's not how it really works but it's true it really is true that if you can step back and go through those three things you talked about of creating a framework and try try it with a friend just walk them through your framework of how they you know how you get your kids fed in the morning or how you make your coffee or something just to see you know what the framework is that you uniquely show up with you know and the great thing about Frameworks is they batch your thinking to leave more cognitive real estate if you will cognitive bandwidth cognitive ability to solve other problems that that's why how Elrod's Miracle morning is such a fantastic book you know just get your morning done get the things that you need to get done down down that's why my R1 R2 R3 I never walk into my garage gym which is a cheap garage gym wondering what I'm going to do I don't have to think about it I don't have to go well okay did I work on ABS that you know what's holding me back R1 R2 from working out is I don't have that structure I'll send it to you but I don't thank you I don't have a framework that I follow because it's not a part of my routine and there's there's not rules there's not rules yeah rules are every day of 2025 there's a workout that's right you know there's workout Don this has been I'm I'm having a lot of fun on this episode I assume you are I think people listening to us are already taking a ton of value um with this podcast is coming out and you're in the midst of releasing a brand new book yeah uh tell me about that well sort of brand new it's building a story 2.
0 I I added about 10,000 words mostly stories of success stories of things that have happened when people applied these principles that we didn't have before uh you know so there's a lot of really interesting stories about how people and it just helps people put sort of skin on this framework can help you clarify message and really understand a little bit better and then we added story. which is the sponsor of this podcast so there's a free tool that that the book refers to at story brand. for you to create your brand script and your I think tagline there's a free tagline generator yeah absolutely yeah story.
a go there check that out and also grab the book Building Story 2. 0 grab it on Audible there's also we forgot to mention this talk about this Pete and Joe there there's a there's a thing that we created called storybrand Radio Theater presents Pete and Joe save their mother's company we actually wrote a radio play a radio drama about two kind of absent-minded brothers who shouldn't be running a company but you can get that on Audible we could probably spend another hour talking about how you came up with that idea I love it's such a creative thing we hired actors yeah it was some of the most fun I've had working here was working on that radio drama that was a blast so I'm I'm really excited for people to hear that so radio story B radio theater presents Pete and Joe save their mother's company check that out on Audible YouTube go get uh the new version of building storybrand check out story brand. and most importantly come back next week come back next we because we're going to talk about week Tik Tok I'm you know I didn't want to do Tik Tok because I don't use Tik Tok and I don't know anything about it yeah but I've already started deep diving into it holy rats yeah there's a lot thanks for listening to the why that work podcast presented by storybrand aai if you like the show follow wherever you get your podcasts and if you're enjoying this on YouTube hit that subscribe cribe button and leave a comment letting us know what you think and what you want the guys to talk about in a future episode curious about how storybrand doai can help you create clear effective messaging well you can try it out right now and create a free customized tagline for your business just go to story brand.
