Fourth question: 'Would you please make a definitive statement about the non-existence of reincarnations since increasing 'scientific evidence' - in quotes - is now being accumulated to prove reincarnation as a fact. I am concerned because I see large number of people beginning to use this evidence to further strengthen a belief system they already have, which enables them to escape facing the problems of living and dying. Isn't it your responsibility to be clear (laughter) direct and unequivocal on this matter instead of hedging round the issue?
' (Laughter) 'Would you please make a definitive statement about the non-existence of reincarnations since increasing 'scientific evidence' - in quotes - is now being accumulated to prove reincarnation as a fact. I am concerned because I see large number of people beginning to use this evidence to further strengthen a belief system they already have, which enables them to escape facing the problems of living and dying. Isn't it your responsibility to be clear, direct and unequivocal on this matter instead of hedging round the issue?
' We will be very definite. (Laughter) Sir, this idea of reincarnation has existed long before Christianity. Right?
The Hindus, the ancient Hindus talked about it. I must tell you a lovely story, but this is going off. And it is prevalent and almost actual in India and probably in the Asiatic world.
They believe in reincarnation. Now what is it that incarnates? You understand?
Not only now, incarnating now, but reincarnating. You follow? That is one point.
Second: this idea of reincarnation being proved scientifically as an evidence so that people can escape through that, the questioner implies, and the questioner also says I am concerned because people are escaping. Right? Are you really concerned if people are escaping?
They escape through football, they escape through going to - what do you call it - basketball, yes, and may I also add escape by going to church? Another form of entertainment! And let's put all that aside being concerned what other people do, because we are concerned with the fact, with the truth of reincarnation.
Right? And you want a definite answer from the speaker. What is it that incarnates?
To incarnate is to be born. Right? What is it at the moment, now, living now, sitting there, what is it that is living?
You understand? Reincarnation means in a future life. Right?
I am asking, what is it that is taking place now which is incarnation? You understand my question? Right?
What is it? Go on, sir, examine it. As we are sitting here, nothing is happening - fairly simple.
You are listening to some talk, or some idiocy or some rubbish, or you like what you are hearing or you don't like what you are hearing. But in our daily life, when you go away from here, what is it that is actually taking place which is the very movement of incarnation, what is it? You know it, I don't.
. . Your struggles, your appetites, your greeds, your envies, your attachments - you follow, all that.
Is that what is going to reincarnate next life? You understand what I am saying? Go on, sir, think it out.
Now those who believe in reincarnation, that is to be born with all the things which I have now, all the things which we have, to be born next life, modified perhaps, and carry on life after life. That's the idea. If you really believe in reincarnation - really - it is something that is alive, a belief - belief is never alive, but suppose it's tremendously alive - then how you are now matters much more than what you will be next.
You understand what I am saying? Are you following? That is sir, it is called, in the Asiatic world, Karma.
I won't go into all that. Which means action, not all the stuff, action. If I live a life now, in this period, with all my misery, confusion, anger, jealousy, hatred, violence, it may be modified, but it will go on next life.
Right? This is obvious if you go into all that. So there is evidence of that.
The evidence of violence, evidence of remembrance of things past - you follow all this? It may be remembrance of things past of a past life. Right?
That remembrance, that accumulated 'me', this accumulation is the 'me', the I, the ego, the personality. That bundle, modified, chastened, polished a little bit, goes on next life. Right?
This has evidence. Right, you are following all this? So the question is not whether there is reincarnation - you follow?
I am very clear on this matter, please, I am very definite. Not that there is reincarnation but what is far more important than reincarnation is the ending of this mess, this conflict, now. You follow?
Then there is something totally different goes on. I wonder if you get all this! It is like my being unhappy, miserable, sorrow-ridden and I say, 'I hope next life I will be better'.
Right? That hope of next life is the postponement of facing the fact now. The speaker has talked a great deal to all those believers and so on, who have lectured, written, talked about reincarnation endlessly.
It is part of their game. And I say, all right sir, you believe in all that, right. If you believe, what you do now matters.
Right? Right, sirs? But they are not interested in that, they are interested in the future.
You follow? They don't say, look, I believe but I will alter my life so completely there is no future. You follow the point?
Don't say at the end of answering this particular question you are evading it. I am not. I say the present life is all important.
If you understand, go into that present life with all the turmoil of it, the complexity of it, and end it. You follow? End it, not carry on with it.
Then you enter into a totally different world. To end it you must apply - you follow sir? - give attention, you must go after it, not just say, 'Well I believe in it, reincarnation I hope in the future something will take placeโ.
I think this is clear, isn't it? I am not hedging. You might ask me, do I believe in reincarnation - right?
That is the question implied too. I don't believe in anything. (Laughter) This is not an evasion.
I have no belief, which doesn't mean I am an atheist, I am ungodly and all that nonsense. To have no belief. Go into it, sir, see what it means.
It means that the mind is free from all entanglements of belief. Q: Would you tell us that lovely story? K: Oh, you have heard of the Upanishads in India the literature of ancient India.
There is a story there about death, which is reincarnation and all the rest of it. The son of a Brahman - you know what a Brahman is - the father is sacrificing, giving up. He has accumulated so much and one of the ancient customs and rules was that, after collecting, at the end of five years, you must give up everything and begin again.
Would you do all that? (Laughter) So he had a son, and the son says to him 'You are giving all this away to various people, and so on to whom are you going to give me away to? 'To whom are you sending me?
' The father said, 'Go away, I am not interested'. So the boy comes back several times and the father gets angry and says, 'I am going to send you to death'. Being a Brahmana he must keep his word.
So he sends him to death. And on his way to death the boy goes to various teachers and says, 'Some say there is incarnation, others say there is not. ' So he goes on searching and he comes to the house of death.
When he arrives death is absent. That is the marvellous story if you go into it. Death is absent.
He waits for three days. On the third or the fourth day death appears and apologises. He apologises because the boy was a Brahman and he says, 'I am sorry to have kept you waiting And in my regret I will offer three whatever you wish.
You can be the greatest king have the greatest wealth and you can have immortality'. He promises everything. And the boy says, 'I have been to all these teachers and they all say different things.
What do you say about death and what happens afterwards? ' So death says, 'I wish I had pupils like you' - you understand? - 'who is not concerned about anything except that'.
So he begins to talk, tell him about truth, about a state of life in which there is no time and so on and so on. That's the story.
