let's get into our black history lesson of the day and talking about the topic of rock and roll sry we should also acknowledge that you brought me happiness about this little nerdy thing you did it kind of caught me up guard I love this numbers like I want to write in my journal and like you know cross things off my I had a million but okay Bethany she like but nickel back and green Rick Rock oh my God cut the cameras I'm sorry I wry I got to go black is Heritage black is royalty from
head to toe black is beautiful from wondery this is Black History For Real where we Chronicle the stories of movers and shakers from black history all over the world the stories will inspire you educate you and more often than not leave you shaking your damn head I'm consciously and I'm Franchesca Ramsey and we are back in the studio for another special edition of black history for real for real for real so conscious how's how has Los Angeles been treating you in terms of uh the weather The Vibes is that a trick question because see what
happened was I thought I was going to be getting some of that stereotypical Los Angeles weather I mean it's and I feel like kov City I've been getting smacked in the face by the win you know what I'm saying Co I think a lot of people I had that same thing when I first started coming out here for work I was bringing sundresses cuz I was coming from New York and it's cold we are in a desert it gets cold at night here yeah yeah see but I thought with like daylight savings that I would
be able to you know set you know mean little more sun to be out there no I kind of I love it I I'm very much like a a leather jacket year round kind of girl see I feel like I was dedicated to wearing these shorts even though it was cool today and I feel like you know when I go outside I pay for it a little bit but I still feel like you know what I'm saying you know player got to make sacrifices no I love I love that it kind of feels like fall
here cuz I have a whole fall wardrobe that I didn't really get to wear in New York cuz fall is 2 seconds but here fall is almost year round I love it bet I bet cver City probably is is is like that too all year round you get this 60 degree weather 60 65 with with a wind gust all right well today uh I want to talk about an aspect of Black Culture that I don't feel like get celebrated enough and that is the concept of black joy we often when we talk about black history
and even when we turn on our televisions and we watch the news or we open history books we are inundated with images of violence pain oppression death police brutality incarceration and while those are parts of an authentic well-rounded experience and story it does really feel like like trauma porn in a in a respect where that's the way that they want to see black people uh and so wanted to talk about black joy and how we counteract those negative images and the importance of doing so yeah I think that being able to depict Us in in
in being happy being joyful and enjoy enjoying life and celebrating life is something good um I I feel like that we kind of do it and that's the reason why we be handing out these uh uh uh cookout invitations like they candy because that is where the black Joy is what's the word you use inundated like that thank you thank you a lot of the things you discuss you know when we talk about structural racism or talk about suffering and police brutality they all start to impact the psyche and how we start to internalize different
ideas about ourselves and you know how we value ourselves yeah absolutely I mean it's one of those things I think that is the beauty of our community is that we see ourselves in each other but then that means we can take on you know other people's pain and I often see you know these heartbreaking stories in the news in the media and it feels like it happened to me I don't have to know the person I don't have to have a personal connection with them or be related to them in order to feel anguish for
them and that's hard you need a place to put that and you need the permission to just like not think about that while it's important but also that rest and joy is revolutionary in itself yeah cuz cuz in a weird way black Joy is kind of provocative in a world that's like meant for black people to always already be like insufferable or experience suffering it seems like you know when we experience Joy or we you know Express Joy it seems counterintuitive to like the black experience so much that people want to like take it from
us or that our joy has to be in service of entertaining somebody else we can't experience it in a safe space that's just for us yeah yeah May me think about the uh the recent viral clip of taji P Henson talking about uh like the dozens and black people kind of like laugh and run and us talking about the the provocative nature of black Joy during the plantation times when enslaved people would would Express laughter they would do it and run because you know it was uh you get Bic supped to be talking noise it
was seen as being counterproductive to the to the productivity on the plantation so when I talk about like black Joy being provocative I think it can be Trac all the way black to the plantation that you being happy is taken away from how productive you could be being like you smiling and laughing right now mean you can't pick this C something like trade off you must not be up to you you're up to no good you're not putting your energy in your time where you're supposed to and I feel like that to your point has
trickled down to like when you're at school or when you're in the workplace kikiing with your friends it's like oh y'all must be doing something wrong if you're laughing there's too much you know too much cackling going on over here it doesn't necessarily it's not always synonymous with being lazy or slacking off or not doing what you're supposed to sometimes it does sometimes it does like you you blacks you joke about everything you joke about too much and because you joke about too much I can't take you serious because you don't take anything serious I
think that's a lot of time how Blacky gets trivialized or gets weaponized against us so almost I think that there's times that we have paranoia and anxiety where we purposely don't give off too much joy because we feel like giving off too much happiness means that might be implications to it so you know the the the the the political nature of black Joy is something to be talked about but on a more lighter Nation note I think that it's important for us to like not take ourselves too serious yeah I mean I think kind of
on that same jumping off point I think it's also like a a way a protective measure too right like if you're being too joyful if you're being too silly your guard is down you could be taken advantage of so it's like you got to be on edge you know don't get one over on me um and so I think it's that that double Consciousness that we've talked about where you are being trying to be yourself while also being cognizant of the realities of your lived experience as a black person where there's just certain things you're
never going to be able to account for no matter how hard you might try so especially when it comes to having an outlet for your happiness and expression and place to rest and restore yourself there can be serious consequences if you do not make that time for yourself in fact according to the American Psychological Association racism has real effects both mental and physical um it causes depression sadness anger anxiety internalized racism feelings of hopelessness lack of energy for planning thinking and coping and also an increased likelihood of using alcohol and substances and physically it can
manifest itself in the body and lead to inflammation higher blood pressure higher cortisol levels which is that stress hormone increased heart rate decreased uh immune function so when people are feeling like their bodies are giving out on them when they're experiencing this oppression it's not in your head it's a real thing yeah and and with that being said uh to uh the black men black boys that's listening that's watching specifically um there is a trend of us being able to ignore the way that these impacts our body and um as a result it has impacted
in its totality our life expectancy um I know that when it comes to like emotional intelligence and being able to acknowledge how we feel when we feel pain we feel anger when we feel suffering um a lot of us have been been indoctrinated to not express it and when we don't express it we don't even want to acknowledge it and um a lot of those issues and inflammation and high blood pressure and anxiety and all those things is really prevalent amongst you know what I'm saying like black mask people specifically but definitely like black men
and black boys which is why I think there's a emphasis on black boy Joy yeah it's so interesting too CU there's like a real insidiousness there of like people being afraid to give voice to their pain and they're very valid feelings and then the medical racism that we encounter when we do say like hey something's going on it's like do you really just want drugs actually y'all are black skinn means y'all you know you don't feel pain the same way um and so it's it's wild to think that there are people who are essentially tamping
down how they actually feel yeah out of fear and or when they actually get the courage to do so they aren't valid ated so it's really kind of like that Insidious chicken of the egg situation and then looking inward I can say that there's something to be said too about how we gender and sexualize happiness and joy and that there's certain types of happiness and joy that other black men exactly feel uncomfortable with you experiencing or expressing that type of happiness and joy because it's seen as being unmasculine or unmanly physical even physical touch you
need everybody needs hugs everybody need hugs I think that people are are good yeah but I think to your point about like certain things being gendered you know putting a hand on somebody's shoulder touching somebody it doesn't necessarily it's not always a sexual thing I think like being able to hold each other you know I have friends that we hold hands you know we mush up on each other and I feel like that is missing for a lot of people but especially men don't give themselves permission because they're essentially policing themselves but then policing each
other this idea of like oh you do that like oh that's sus man don't do that s so you simping like you too happy oh that's simping now oh yeah we talked about that we talked about that last night can you can you dig into that this idea that you're a simp if you as a man if if you show too much interest or you show too much care or too much tenderness what what what is that about cuz I yeah I I know where it comes from but Man Without well I'm consciously of course
I'm get a little deep with it I'mma go to I think it's Plantation patriarchy I think that a lot of us uh black men we have mastered how to express our masculinity based off of the different things we got from the plantation and as a result a certain level of happiness or empathy in any way shape from a fashion is seen as almost like you're dishonoring you feel me your masculinity so for me I think that even when you show empathy to yourself or you show empathy to a group of people that the Community or
the world say you shouldn't have empathy for so if you show empathy as a black man to trans women you simping you pandering you X Y and Z and how dare you acknowledge his Humanity something wrong with that I think that's also a part of how we get to compartmentalize Joy and say that there are certain bodies in our community that don't get access to Joy they always supposed to be miserable and there are other bodies that's always already supposed to be joyful or enjoyable you know what I'm saying and I think that just just
just the way it starts to happen is then we start to create a politic that says that anytime you deviate outside of masculinity you are simping pandering or you just on some suspect gay [ __ ] yeah no in between so now the only emotions you get the access is anger and aggression yeah you know what I'm saying just like damn that sound like a life I don't want to live that sounds like a life not worth living almost you feel me like there's no value to that life so you know I'm curious as a
black woman what has been your experience when you acknowledge you know what I'm saying like black boy Joy or Notions of Happiness outside of like the heteronormative you know what I'm saying context for black folks yeah I mean I it's so interesting because when I cut my hair I got a lot of people saying be careful be careful people going to think people going to think you gay and you know as I've gotten to embrace and explore my queer identity I really G I was like I mean you got me listen I often say like
the the the most boring part of my personality is I still like dudes it's probably the thing that I'm you know I really I'm trying to work on it and if I could divest I would but to your point about like hetero Norms this idea of like queer expression and queer love and like embracing androgyny and like divorcing myself from you know the specific gender standards of like wearing my hair a certain way and wearing my makeup I'm wearing certain types of clothes has been a way for me to rce and experience joy and connect
with my queer identity and connect with other queer people I think one thing that I was thinking about in terms of you know that these these hetero Norms one thing I think about for women often times is how like capitalism has made us feel like any hobby that you have is something that has to be commodified and you have to turn into a job and you have to have a we were talking about hustle culture it's like just being able to engage in your hobbies simply because they're Hobbies I feel like that is an area
of of black joy that I want to give people more permission to explore that you don't have to turn every single thing into a business you don't have to try and open a shop I mean I understand we are in an economically challenging time but you deserve to be able to just do things that you like and you don't have to be the best at it you don't have to you know start a Fortune 500 company or you know small business you can just create like create you like it and I think we had to
we all need to make more for that yeah like doing the Electric Slide Cha Slide or that hard ass dance that to me if be having us St dude oh the water dance oh man no come on come on now Franco don't make me don't make you know you know the Can I just let's just line you did this you did this cuz you make me want to sweat I don't I need a cigarette I ain't no smoking I thought you were talking about the Tyla song where like she does the water and like she
pours the water on her butt and she goes like yeah that that yeah yeah yeah but I think that th those are things that that I feel like throughout the diaspora that brings us happiness and I feel like the things that get in the way of that is when we start to think about how our happiness is perceived through again how white folks see us having fun so white folks start to depict or interpret our fun as being something that it is not we stop doing it and you know what I'm saying I think that
for for for for I like across the Spectrum all all genders and sexual expressions in the in the black community we we F in to respectability politics and it polies our happiness [Music] yeah so what do you do that that the the other things you haven't named you named a few things like what other things that that brings you Joy that you like doing some may put the audience on maybe something that might not even heard of before I mean I I am not going to say something you've never heard of before but come on
Franchesca CH I'm I'm challenging you right now come on okay well now this isn't something you haven't heard of before but I've gotten really into print making which is like I hold on hold on hold on hold on what print making so like these like little lenium blocks it's kind of like a little rubber and you carve little designs into it and then you put ink on it and then you like stamp it it's so cathartic like the process of carving the little stamps what I know I'm such like a I'm such a crafty person
hold on and what is called again print making so you make different prints so like you can you know when you would do the printing press for example they would use little carved blocks with letters on them and roll ink on them I love it hold hold hold on I asked you about Joy this is something that brings me joy the pr press yes I'm saying that make crafting brings me joy respect and you know what it is it's the process of seeing something from nothing like starting with like a blank slate and then being
like I'm going to sit here and draw a thing I'm going to put a lot of time it can't be on my phone I put music on I sit there and I draw whatever it is I carve out the thing and then honestly the thing that really brings me joy I've been making like wrapping paper and like wrapping presents with it and giving someone something that I'm like I made this for you yeah the feeling that I get when I get to share something that I created I spent a lot of time people are so
excited and like for me like that's the gift in itself you said this was a safe space you said frica share something that people never heard of before and then I said okay well I'm G to tell you about this like nerdy crafty thing I do and you're like wo so I just this is about perspective right and you as a black woman you said something that brought me joy okay I need and we should we should also acknowledge that you brought me happiness about this little nerdy thing you did it kind of caught me
off guard it's okay well you C me off guard you opened the door and I felt like I could share this part of myself with you and the audience yes I love to craft yes I like to make homemade wrapping paper okay is that so weird I love gifts I have a gift drawer this is who I am this is my truth what brings you Joy and guess what I'm gonna I'm GNA have I'm GNA have very critical feedback if it doesn't fit in a perfectly in in the perfect way that I imagine you I'm
sorry listen listen um I like playing Madden in 2K okay you know okay I like um arguing with the boys you feel me about uh politics and sports I I enjoy that you know um I like Doom scrolling now see I would say that that's not joyful it's joyful no it is not Doom scrolling is something that you need to divest from you feel me I like I like scrolling how about this how about this I like rabbit hole scrolling you know I'm not it's not Dooms it's that I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm scrolling in
the rapid holes of knowledge and you know being able to soak up a little bit of game little information it brings me joy it makes me feel alive yeah I feel like I feel like you're getting by a technicality also too something that that now I'm back at home in Texas that I'm looking forward to getting into that brought me like you know what I'm saying a lot growing up is fishing like I'm looking forward to getting into fishing you feel me trying to teach my son how to fish you know what I'm saying just
time my old men and you know what I'm saying my homeboys and they s trying to get that fish I'm bring my daughter along too we going to get our fish on though um yeah okay and talking about philosophy of course like talking about philosophy and Theory it makes I just feel like because I revealed a nerdy joyful thing I feel like you are really keeping it in like the stere I like fishing and video games and talking talking to my friends like tell me some like nerdy deep cut thing that people don't know about
so that I can get lick back man you trying to spin the block on me huh listen lick back gang get back gang okay I don't I also just learned what lick back is so I feel I used it in the right way and I feel really good about it cuz I know if I said it wrong you would call me out like now Franchesca you like what are you talking about what does that mean what are you talking about I really to be honest with you I feel like if I'm being real I'm just
starting to explore and being real with myself about is okay to not be productive like I really think that like a lot of my self worth throughout my life has been tied to me being able to be productive so I think that like like for me it's a big thing for me to acknowledge that I actually do like playing games yeah I had I had gave up be playing video games to be a content creator and at that time I didn't know I had ADHD so I really was fing with feeling like I was an
inadequate adult I recognized there were a lot of impulses and a lot of emotional disregulation I had that really made me feel like I was a big ass kid that was like that wasn't good at being an adult yeah so I really had gave up things that I really enjoyed because I felt like I need to grow out of it and it's like you are how old now you still playing games you tripping now I've gave myself time and space to be like no you really enjoy this it is okay that you a 33 years
old and you like playing video games that is okay you should you shouldn't let nobody trivialize that take that from you so for me it's like I know it sound like stereotypical but for me it's like like man I'm the I'm the oldest you know what I'm saying and I'm a first year college student I me first generation college student you feel my mom and my daddy was on drugs for me and my time is something I think about very deeply and if I feel like that my time is being spent not good or it's
not being spent productive it really it really bothers me yeah I really start thinking about people eating sleep for dinner and what I'm not doing and what I'm doing so me giving my space to be like I actually enjoy this I I'm saying it's big yeah I mean and I would also say that like giving yourself permission to do nothing gives you the energy to put into when you're doing the real thing when you're doing the work you need that rest it's like a crucial part of getting the work done as well yeah and like
you said in the you know I'm saying in a previous episode sometimes the most like revolutionary thing you can do is rest especially in a world that tell you as a black person you should always be working it's okay to rest I well I was really hoping that you were going to say something nerdy I could make fun of you for but thanks thanks I like I like documentaries yeah that's not that's still very smart you know F really got no I a you know I ain't really got you know no it's cool I that
that tracks for you that even when you say something nerdy it turns into like a profound moment I'm sorry we all learn from I'm sorry it's me over you feel me you know what I'm saying it seep through the pae and it's like listen the like you cop me off guard with like joy in the printing press it's like my mind my philosophical crazy mind think about printing press and nothing of Joy comes to mind you know what I'm saying and I think it's just that word like it's a you feel me you know what
it is I'm a I'm a processed person and I like the idea of that like I like I love looking at data I love research I love trying different things and like all of that stuff that might feel like work to other people or feel like really laborious or tedious to me it like tingles a part of my brain where I'm like I love that this numbers like I want to write in my journal and like you know cross things off my list love that stuff talk about count some money other than that keep them
numbers man keep them numbers man one thing that brings me joy is getting paid so we're going to take a quick break and get into some advertisements and when we come back we will get into our black history lesson of the [Music] day is beautiful today's topic is on rock and roll and how black people get left out of it um let me give you some brief history first just like country rock and roll started off as a black expression and like the other Black Expressions particular people found interest in it and you know the
rest is history we looking at you Elvis we looking real hard at you Elvis just like country music rock and roll started off in the South you know a lot of the early expressions of Rock roll you know start off Down Yonder M why do you think that is oh I don't I don't know I'm gonna guess Jim Crow has something to do with it I'm gonna guess like some sort of right like in my mind it makes sense right like like oppressive structures are needing for people to find ways to find relief which is
kind of related to our black Joy topic I'm I'm pulling this deep out of the brain um so yeah I'm I'm going to I'm going to guess that that's that there's some influence there yeah yeah yes yeah definitely tell me the answer most most definitely uh rock and roll is a music genre that is often attributed to White musicians right peep game just like country music it originated in black music circles and in the 1940s when Rock was being created 77% of black people still lived in the South and it was proximity to Negroes that
allowed for rock music to kick off and according to music historians rock and roll was born out of what African-Americans were already doing in jazz rhythm and blues Boogie wogie Electric Blues Gospel jump Blues as well as country music one thing about us we giving you all of these genres okay we cannot be limited our tets cannot be contained Fats Domino one of rock and roll's first generation Stars was asked about music's origins in a 1950s television interview and he said rock and roll is nothing but rhythm and blues and we've been playing it for
years down in New Orleans cuz hold on can something that was stolen from somebody still Bel belong to them yeah that's very that's very deep I mean yes I think it does still belong to us I feel like this is a perfect opportunity for us to reclaim rock and roll the same way that we had this conversation about Beyonce kicking open doors and country music and making a way for other black artists who were already in the genre but are now kind of getting the respect that they deserve there are black people playing rock and
roll but I do think that you know traditional media whether it be radio streaming all of those places need to create space for black rock musicians to thrive and you know be exposed to new audiences I just don't think that they're getting the same level of shine so how can this information be used for how we talk about the the the weird quote unquote Black Expressions or black people that was into rock and roll cuz I acknowledge that us talking about black history for real and talking about the black community there is a demographic of
black people that have always been made fun of for liking things like rock and roll specifically yeah so for me it's like what you what can we do with this knowledge about rock and roll originally starting with black people and like how can we like Rectify resolve the way we have alienated particular people for liking stuff that we feel like black folks a't supposed to like even though we I mean I I mean I would zoom out to say that while black folks liking rock music is technically a black thing since we created rock and
roll I would say like I really want to push people to create spaces where black people can be whatever kind of person that they want like that we should be given the the beauty of individuality that like how you behave does not influence how I'm perceived as a black person like you're allowed to like whatever you like we don't have to like the same things and that can include any musical genre um it's frustrating to me again this is a thing that we've talked about a lot of times like when we put those barriers on
each other we're just doing it in service of white supremacy like no one wins when we say all black people have to be the same what you don't like hip-hop and rap you're not I do I do like you're not black I like both of those genres you and I like other ones too what is that voice I don't even know I just fooled that one out in my mind that made that pitch made sense to I just like the idea of some Grandma being like you don't like hip hop like why does she yeah
you know she kind of sounds like a bird a little bit yeah yeah yeah but this sprinkle some more context in there we do got the great you know what I'm saying we got we got we got a couple like black rock and rollers in there it's one of them I'mma come back to the name I thought I want some questions about it you know what I'm saying but Jimmy Hendricks is definitely one of like the great rockers of all time you know what I'm saying the great uh ge George Clinton you know what I'm
saying he he got something that I actually like grew up listening to that's the reason why I had to do that because all of them I ain't I ain't listening to you know what I'm saying like for me I feel like I realized I got caught up in like beefs very superficially when I was young so like Prince technically be like you know what I'm saying probably a great Rock and roller but like I was team Mike so I don't know that many Michael I know many PR songs me me and my wife had this
conversation and I'm like I'm I'm I'm finally now cool and not embarrassed to be like yeah that's so funny I did not listen to a lot of Prince growing up at all oh wow yeah know my dad was a big Prince fan so I definitely grew up listening to him there's also Slash from Guns and Roses considered to be know a lot of a lot of people didn't know but check out the curls cascading under that hat you know what I'm saying he got a little a little happening in there hey hey hey black biracial
people matter yeah okay Tom Melo from Rage Against the Machine which I grew up listening to rage for sure so you got me on the Like Guns and Roses Lenny kravis raing I don't know them now Tina though Tina Turner which is so interesting because I think some people would not associate her as a rock musician but if you listen to her earlier stuff she definitely started in the Rock space before what people most recently might know associate her with which is kind of like contemporary so let's unpack it a little bit more cuz last
the the the episode about the blues we talked about the certain characteristics that we would Define the blues I really like like outside of a guitar what makes rock music I mean I feel like like that's one of those things too where we were talking about country and blues there's so much overlap in there I think it's definitely like the drums the Baseline the rhythm of the music it definitely has like a Harder Faster sound versus like Blues kind of being like a little more groovy and chilled and laidback I'm sure there's like very specific
time signature stuff in there too like it's been a long it's been a long time since I played piano but I definitely know that in in the the time signature in terms of like the the beats that are used in certain types of music like delegate with genre it falls into when I was in high school my favorite band was Sublime and Sublime is more like re SCA and SCA kind of falls into that like hold on though y'all don't underestimate me though I don't know I don't know them right there I cap I don't
know them they over my head never heard of them right nickel back and green Rick rock and roll God cut the cameras I'm sorry I wry I got to go I'm sorry back gr they had the uh look at this phot look at listen listen listen listen listen I'm in I'm in I'm in middle school you feel me I didn't woke up you know what I'm saying the bus come at 7:40 I can turn on to VH1 and they G to give it to me you know what I'm saying I'mma get me some nickel backck
and some green day and it grew on me I in too I used to play certain video games you know what I'm saying because also too I feel like bro was a weirdo but it was one of the songs I like from Marilyn Manson too you know what I'm saying the um uh name his name Marilyn Manson right his name marn Manson which one uh where I go The Beautiful People Beau people yeah Beautiful People my Tony Hawk days my Tony Hawk days Tony Hawk you know what I'm saying Tony Hawk put your hey shout
out to Tony Hawk man you mean a lot to the black community bro I would say okay there is a podcast I'm not are we allowed to talk about other podcasts we're going to there's a podcast called black people love Paramore and let me tell you haey Williams you have a place to stay if you are ever in the Los Angeles area I know you don't need a place to stay but miss the par more I didn't get it I didn't get it what I think that I think that it's one I feel like there
there has never been a nonblack thing that made me feel like I was out of the loop with black people more than parore I swear to God especially on Tik Tok I be like damn I I missed the loop and black folks be like oh this parore I'm like what like what oh definitely oh yeah no they're music as a matter of fact black folks watching this tell us in the comments don't don't jump me about per more I don't know man Ain never caught my ear okay I have an idea you make me a
playlist I'm going to make you a playlist and we will share it with y'all so you can listen to some of the rock musicians the country artists all of the music that y'all have you know has been colonized we will put together some of our favorite artists that y'all can enjoy them and tell us in the comments who are some of the rock musicians of any background that you like we want to hear from you yes and I will be in the comment section making fun of you if I think you're funny jokey I will
not be in the comment section but conscious will he will be there that's that's my black Joy the way I maintain my black Joy is staying out of the comments thank you for tuning in to this very special episode of black history for real for Real uh make sure you can check it out on the wondery app or wherever you listen to your podcast [Music]
