CNN's Kaitlan Collins was in the Oval Office for this meeting. Caitlin, it's hard to imagine a scenario in which this could have gone worse. This seems to be a dream come true for Vladimir Putin.
Well, it's not an overstatement for sure to say that it is one of the most astonishing moments that we have ever seen happen inside the Oval Office, between these world leaders, essentially shouting at one another by the end of this devolving into it points Trump and Vance berating Zelensky for saying that he was not being grateful enough for the aid that the United States has provided to Ukraine, and Zelensky arguing back that they do not understand Putin essentially that he will violate any agreement if the proper guarantees aren't in place. That seemed to particularly incensed Trump, as he was saying, don't tell us what we're going to feel. Zelensky has been arguing that Putin will not stop with Ukraine, that you will go on to other Eastern European nations, including Poland, as he made the argument there.
And Trump was essentially pushing back on that and telling Zelensky that he had no cards and that he needed to make a deal. And at one point, I think the most striking line from that that could foreshadow what the rest of these talks are going to look like, what this press conference could look like, if we still see these world leaders come out where they were supposed to sign that deal is the president president said to Zelensky, you either make a deal or we are out. Now, that comes after 40 minutes before this exchange happened, where the president was talking about how he wasn't ready to make security guarantees yet, he said the United States would still send some weaponry to Ukraine.
Questions going back and forth about how a deal would hold, how a minerals deal would be carried out. All of that was essentially wiped away by those last ten minutes that were so incredibly heated. They are in the Oval Office and essentially ended with Vance saying that this is not something that should be litigated in front of the press, but many press who were inside that room, Trump saying that he thought it was actually good that it was playing out.
And I asked Trump as we were leaving, can the two of you still negotiate, given what we just watched, that left everyone else in the room silent? He told me, quote, we'll see. But but just to give you a sense of of how much things broke down, look at this picture of the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States.
She has been the ambassador to the U. S. , I should note, since 2021, since before Russia invaded Ukraine.
She had her head in her hands at one point when when I looked around the room and was just looking at all of the officials here. Secretary of State Rubio, Treasury Secretary Bennett, the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, the Commerce secretary. They were all in the room.
And the Ukrainian officials as well. Watching this play out and raising real questions about what the two leaders here are going to be able to get done behind the scenes. This is the photo of the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States, as they were just shouting at one another between the three of them, and an incredibly remarkable moment.
Trump doesn't seem to think that the sting of Putin is going to reach the United States. He rejected the idea, emotionally rejected the idea that Zelenskyy was presenting, that there will be effects here in the United States, that it will be felt here. What did you think of that?
This started innocently enough, the same way the French and the British leaders came and pushed back gently on Trump. Zelensky had started giving a history lesson about how Putin first seized Crimea in 2014. Trump corrected and said 2015, he's like no.
2014 and then explained how they had signed two different peace deals with Putin Minsk one and Minsk two, that Germany and France also signed to guarantee. And what he was trying to do was show Trump, you know, we have tried to do diplomacy before and it hasn't worked. He was being very genteel and patient as he explained it, and it was Vance who took offense and started interjecting.
And then it was Vancity warmed up to his subject, who then also interjected the, you're I haven't heard you say thank you once. It was almost like he was bawling out one of his young kids and he warmed to his subject. And once it became that tone, Trump took that tone on and jumped into the attacks.
And I don't know how you get from that back to, look, you can't trust Putin. And here's why. I just I can only imagine what it was like once they all went into a conference room and had to look at each other across the table.
Yeah. And what did you think as you were watching this, Jeff? I mean, it's pretty shocking, but what I think really stands out to me is that this administration grossly overestimates its ability to bring about a deal, completely agree with the point that you can't trust deals made with Russian President Putin.
I take it a step further than that and say, as long as Russian troops are advancing in the east and they are and he believes he's winning, you're not going to get a meaningful deal. In a sense. By meaningful, I mean like some kind of lasting peace.
So I don't even think they're going to get to the point where he violated the upper hand. So why would he proceed in that regard, you mean? Yes.
None of his strategic objectives about changing the government in Ukraine and really controlling the strategic direction of Ukraine? None of that has changed as long as he thinks he can do that by what he's doing right now, he's going to keep doing that. And the rest of the negotiations with him, that's just smoke and mirrors.
And my impression is that basically Trump's national security team, people like Mike Wallace, national security adviser, secretary of state, Marco Rubio, they're very traditionalist. They're anti-russia. But like past Trump administration officials, they sold Trump on this deal through the lens of business, through the lens of making investments for U.
S. companies possible leveling the playing field with China because China has 70% of the rare earth minerals. And this would give the U.
S. a jump on some of that. but the whole idea was this was something to build on, signed this loose agreement, then that goodwill would make Zelensky look like the good guy who made Trump look good.
And we would build on that from there. And now this all just got blown up, and you could see a lot of the messages that, he had absorbed, that Trump had absorbed from his conversations with Putin just coming out the world. I don't know how you talked down from this.
What about just that glimmer of hope that Nick Paton Walsh alluded to the idea that Donald Trump, as a negotiator, would respect someone that would hold a hard line against him, that that Zelensky going in there and standing his ground. Even at one point, as cameras were being escorted out, smiling and giving a thumbs up for the cameras, sort of as if to to show that he's not intimidated by the situation, that his country isn't on the line. would that work to his advantage?
Do you see that as a possibility? I don't, and I think that I understand that, you know, Trump likes to be up against somebody that he respects. But what you're seeing is a real shift in U.
S. foreign policy. We're stepping back for a moment where he respects Putin.
He respects XI Jinping and China, and those are the people he wants to deal with. Anybody else is just not an equal right. And so, in some ways, the foreign policy that's emerging is actually very similar to Chinese and Russian foreign policy.
And that in the world you have a couple centers of gravity where the real power is we'll work things out amongst us. And like all the rest of the country, it's just need to fall in line. I won't mess with your area.
You don't mess with my area and we'll just straight out ourselves. And Zelensky doesn't rise to that level in Trump's eyes. Meanwhile, watch his, popularity ratings back home.
They're going to soar. They're at 65, they're going to be higher. And European nations who were thinking about, oh, we got to go it alone after watching that spectacle.
They're going to be like, okay, it's us in Ukraine. We cannot count on this white House. Let's talk a little bit more about that with CNN chief international anchor Christiane Amanpour.
Let's talk, Christiane, about how European leaders are going to view this moment. Well, look, I think just what your guest just said, it's going to be a you can imagine everybody in Europe now has their head in their hands, particularly after the parade of U. S.
, European presidents and prime ministers just came back from fairly successful meetings with President Trump. They never got what they wanted in terms of a security guarantee for Ukraine, because that's what they really need if there is to be any peace. But now they're going to be wondering, is there going to be any deal to even police and to enforce, or are we just going to have to continue, funding and supplying this war?
What I can tell you is the British Prime Minister has announced that he is having a summit in London this weekend. On Sunday, he's invited, all the major European leaders and President Zelensky was due to be coming back from Washington via London to take part in that summit. This was, you know, designed to, you know, compare notes, all their trips to the white House, how to go forward.
I don't know whether that will still happen. I don't know what what they might discuss. It seems it's even more urgent for that summit to take place, given what just happened in the white House.
Look, from a European and an overseas perspective, what seemed to have happened was a this very strange new white House way of having these long and lengthy Oval Office sprays with the press, where they do talk for a long time. It's not usual. This is, you know, an accident waiting to happen.
You saw the Zelensky handshake as he met with President Trump at the portico. He was incredibly tense. Zelensky's body language very tense, knew everything that was riding on this, you know, on this meeting.
And then, as everybody said, you know, a fairly okay meeting devolved into this, really horrendous catastrophe in the last ten minutes. And as if everybody had said, you know, launched by the intervention of the vice president, Vice President JD Vance this year in Munich, basically you know, washed his hands of, Ukraine last time he was in Munich at the security conference, basically told Europeans and Ukrainians that I don't care really much what happens to Ukraine. So there's some animosity there, as you can imagine, untruths about Zelensky never saying thank you.
And a very you know, twisted and tortured version of what's actually been going on during this war. But I think as, as many people said Zelensky's main aim, as he said himself, but I want to ask what the US is prepared to do going forward. And perhaps I need to ask, well, whose side is the Trump administration on Ukraine's or Putin's?
And I think what you saw in that meeting was much more of the United States administration. The president and the vice president taking all the Putin talking points and being frustrated with Zelensky and using those talking points that in terms of a transatlantic alliance and in terms of a superpower going forward, is really the major shift that everyone overseas has been incredibly concerned about. And it also seemed to be a performance for domestic politics.
What the you know, what what what President Trump and, and, and Vice President Vance were doing, it seemed, was as much a, a domestic political, campaign appearance as anything else. I mean, at one point, you heard President Trump going back on the Russia hoax and the Hunter Biden laptop and on and on and on. There is bad blood between these two leaders from the very beginning.
But again, let's not forget that it was the javelins that Trump did provide that allowed Ukraine to fend off the Russians in those early days. Very important, these weapons work. But let's also not forget that it was Trump who could evinced his MAGA allies in Congress this time last year to pause the latest delivery of weapons to Ukraine.
And that was a seven month lag, which cost territory, which cost lives, and which has put Ukraine in a very bad place. But to keep hearing the president of the United States tell the Ukrainian president and the people of Ukraine, who fought this much mightier army off for three years, that they have no cards to play, that they either take a deal and make a deal or the United States is out. This is music to President Putin's eyes.
Music. We're joined now by Massachusetts congressman and a member of the Armed Services Committee. Seth Moulton, Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.
First, your reaction to this deal being off to this Oval Office meeting that we watched unfold as dramatically as it did and to the press conference now being canceled and the future of Ukraine in question. Well, look, I just been sitting here listening to these British guys ramble on and on about this. Let's just cut to the chase.
The president of the United States is a coward. Who is Vladimir Putin's puppet? The vice president of the United States is a pogue and a coward.
Who is Donald Trump's puppet. And so what we just witnessed was a meeting in the Oval Office between two cowardly puppets and a hero. And whether you voted for these puppets or not, just as an American, as a fellow American, it's just embarrassing that the only hero in the Oval Office, the only decent human being, for that matter, is the Ukrainian.
I mean, this administration is going to go down as an embarrassment to American history. Congressman, I wonder if you think that President Zelensky could have handled it differently the way that some of his European counterparts and Emmanuel Macron and Keir Starmer did, and perhaps been more deferential to Trump and Vance. Deferential to what?
Deferential to a president who allowed a deal in his first term to crumble because Putin just violated it, deferential to to a vice president who didn't even bother to visit Ukraine? I hardly know anyone in Congress who has any view on national security, who hasn't been to Ukraine during this war, deferential to a draft dodger who's our commander in chief. Zelensky doesn't deserve to be deferential to anyone in that Oval Office.
In fact, I kind of wish he'd put them in their place a little bit stronger. I mean, this is just truly, truly embarrassing. And the vast majority, the vast, vast majority of my Republican colleagues in Congress completely agree with me.
They know the truth here. They're just too scared to say it themselves. Congressman, I do wonder how you would react to the suggestion by JD Vance that there was a lot of chess thumping and harsh words for Putin in the last administration, but not enough action.
Do you think that the Biden administration should have provided Ukraine with stronger weapons sooner, in order to prevent where we are right now? Look, I have been a fair critic of both Democrats and Republicans and a critic of some aspects of how Biden handled this war. And yes, I think that he should have given them more weapons faster.
But the idea that Vance and Trump, who are literally sucking up to a dictator who want Putin apparently to win this war, the idea that they would criticize Biden, I mean, that's, you know, that's real rich. That's real rich. Where do you think this goes from here, Congressman?
Do you think U. S. aid to Ukraine is immediately at risk?
It's unquestionably at risk. I mean, everything we stand for as Americans, the very fundamental value of freedom is at risk with what these two are doing. But the other risk that we shouldn't ignore and J.
D. Vance brought it up is World War II. We want to listen in.
That would happen. You know, all. That's what happened.
It was difficult to hear their President Zelensky, as he was exiting the white House, clearly yelled at cameras, but it was hard to make out exactly what he was saying. It appears that he is in that vehicle just outside the West Wing, and is set to depart the white House in moments after this explosive afternoon in which we've seen this deal between the United States and Ukraine crumble, and then a shouting match inside the Oval Office. Congressman, if you want to finish your thoughts as we await Zelensky's departure.
Well, I just send that look, the risk that this actually could be a wider war involving NATO is real, because Putin is getting emboldened by the president of the United States and by the vice president of the United States, because the way this becomes a wider war is for Putin to get the message that he went and he can go and invade sovereign countries with impunity and go do it to Eastern European NATO allies next. And that will get American troops killed, not just innocent Europeans. American troops will die if that happens.
So what Trump and Vance are doing is absolutely dangerous for our national security, not just dangerous for Ukraine. Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton, we have to leave the conversation there. We appreciate you joining us.
I want to go to the white House now with CNN's Jeff Zeleny, who is watching closely as this vehicle departs. Jeff, were you able to make out what Zelensky yelled to cameras? We were not able to make that out, Boris.
We will go back and listen. But it was nothing extraordinary or long. But what we are seeing here now is President Zelensky leaving the white House about two hours and 20 minutes or so after he arrived, without getting a deal and without doing a press conference with President Trump to sign the deal.
You will see right here the same motorcade going behind us as we speak, driving out of the north gates of the white House. What this is, is an extraordinary breakdown in diplomacy, the biggest break and change in foreign policy. Let's listen right there.
President Zelensky himself. What happened? So, as you could see, there we were rerack that tape.
I could not make out what President Zelensky was saying, but now he has left the grounds of the white House. And indeed, we shall see what we shall see. What comes from here.
He did stay in the West Wing of the white House for, some minutes after President Trump, said, come back when it's time for peace. So we do not know if there were any further discussions. We will, certainly do our reporting and let you know.
But this moment, this Friday afternoon, the end of a very, busy week of diplomacy here has ended in anything. but that and, interestingly, right before President Zelensky came to the white House here, he met with a bipartisan group of senators and Republican Senator Roger Wicker, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, welcomed him. And he said, we're here to show you our support.
That is not how President Zelensky leaves this white House. So certainly this is a, breach in, foreign policy, protocol, but also, really showing the split inside this Republican Party, the party of Donald Trump and the party of JD Vance. We have not seen Vice President Vance, really speak up much at all during his opening weeks of his vice presidency.
But that moment in the Oval Office certainly is resonating and reverberating around the world. But now he is gone. They are breaking down the room where the press conference and deal was scheduled to be announced.
And that, certainly is not how even President Trump wanted this day here to end. We shall see. if this is a negotiating tactic, we do not know how long President Zelensky will stay in town.
President Trump clearly does still want to make a deal. But, those, tensions and fiery exchanges certainly have cut deep.
