we have not got rid of abdurahim just yet we have a bonus video espcially for you going into a little bit more detail on some of the conversations you might have with Christians and atheists so ABD Rim in regards to Christianity first some Christians will say well Jesus Is God he's able to do anything he is God or they might even say well he's actually Son of God how would we deal with that contention specifically this is a very important issue and contrary to what many people may think go rap is actually most effective with
Christians right now if we go back to the discussion about God's existence what I often do with Christians is ask them to rationalize the existence of God so I say you explain to me how you know this universe has a creator M by and large sooner or later the Christian will come up with pretty much the same arguments of course Christians do believe that there is one unique self-sufficient Eternal Creator who is free from space and time however they immediately contradict that belief by claiming that Jesus is that Creator right or that Jesus is part
of the Creator or part of a trinity along with that Creator now the problem with this from the Christian's point of view is that this is a belief that can never be explained through reason in other words it is irrational right and it's not only irrational it's impossible by the very definition of impossibility because what their belief requires is that you believe that something is its opposite right that's why right at the beginning I like to introduce what I call I call it Universal principles I mean that may just be complicated terminology for people but
they're just the principles of Common Sense something doesn't come from nothing where you see something ordered something's ordered it and these these are things that can lead us to know that God exists but also Al something can't be its opposite so I gave the example of the the circle yeah the circle can't be a square and be a circle at the same time you could take a circle fit it inside a square or take a square fit it it inside a circle you can stretch the circle to make a square but you can't have the
circle being a square and being a circle both at the same time but this is the problem the very reason and logic we use to show that there must be a Creator a unique Creator who is different from the universe also immediately necessitates or proves that Jesus or Krishna or Buddha or any other human they can't be God right because by definition God is infinite by definition God is men human beings are finite by definition the nature of God is self-sufficient by definition the nature of human beings is they are needy yeah so what we
saw manifest in Jesus is not godly attributes they are human attributes what was manifest about him is that he ate food he breathed air he was born he grew up he was circumcised he rolled a donkey he felt hungry yeah he got tempted these are all human attributes it's these are not the attributes of God and the point is they would say well he was both God and man but something by definition can't be because God is the opposite of what man it's they are opposites they on the opposite scale of the spectrum right God
is Creator human is creation God is self-sufficient humans are needy God is the one who is worshiped humans are the ones who worship yeah yeah so it goes on and on yeah God does not pray to anyone but Jesus prayed yeah yeah so that's the point and this is the point that Allah makes in the Quran that if God wanted to destroy Jesus and Mary and everything in the heavens and the Earth who could stop him meaning Jesus was powerless before the power of God therefore he can't be the same as God sure sure right
so I mean the Christian can believe this if they want to but they can never and that's why we go back to and that's when I said I had this conversation with the Christian when he brought this up I said what happened to the man in the red remember we remember we agreed to use common sense and reason okay and and it's very problematic from other angles as well because now the Christian is telling us that a person is going to go to hell forever for refusing to believe something impossible right how can that how
can we describe God as being just how can you describe God as being just when he is going to burn people for refusing to believe in impossibility and the way that I often present this to the Christian in a very Stark and a very real and a very poignant way I say look imagine you're standing in front of God and I'm standing in front of God on the day of judgment and God says to you God says to me why didn't you believe Jesus was God why didn't you believe that I was Jesus or Jesus
was me or Jesus was God or whatever whatever way God would put it right well I would say how can I believe you're the creator of the heavens and the Earth Jesus was a little man on a DOT of a planet that was is a DOT on a Galaxy that is a DOT and the whole universe is a DOT before your throne how can I believe that this was equal to you you're the creator of all things how can I say such a thing about you if God picks me up and puts me in hell
I'll never but feel that Justice was done yeah I will never feel I deserved it m but if a Christian stands in front of God on the day of judgment as they will and God will say to them why did you worship this human I created and you made him equal with me what are you going to say and if God picks you up and puts you in hell as a Christian you'll know you deserve to be there MH until now I don't know any Christian who've been who's been able to say anything to that
right um now one of The Comebacks Christians have is well God can do anything this is a classic God can do anything and obviously that's highly problematic so what I would say is well look as Muslims there's a certain way we talk about God we don't like to say God can't do this and God can't do that it's it's not the way to talk about God however in reality we we're going to be confronted with one of two things either we would say God could do it but he never would or God can't do it
right so what I usually do is give an example to a Christian the example I often give Christians is I often say to them can God do something evil right now their reply is one of two things either they say no God can't do anything evil I say why not because God is good I said but you said God can do anything yeah so that they've contradicted themselves sure or I say to them or they say or they say God could do something evil if he wanted to but he never would I'll say why not
because that's not his nature they reply God is good and good God does not do evil things I said but it's the same with all of God's attributes just as a good God doesn't do evil things an eternal God doesn't become a temporary man a self-sufficient God does not become a needy person it's the same thing the same rule applies not only to God's goodness but all of the attributes of God you can either say one of the two things no God can't do it because God is so far removed from being able to do
from doing evil because it's the attribute the quality of God that God is good but it's also the quality of God that he's self-sufficient yeah that he's unconfined by space and time and so on and so forth so this is basically what says the Christians so what if they say well okay that's fine but Jesus is actually Son of God how would you resp respond to that this is a little bit more tricky right in the sense that the term Son of God has a meaning that is it has a potential meaning that is I
wouldn't say harmless but it has a sort of neutral it has a potential neutral meaning and but it also has a meaning that is just simply again ridiculous in respect to God so the the way I again I I give this I give um I I use an example I I say what do you mean by Son of God when you say he's the son of God what actually do you mean by that do you mean that he's literally the Son of God begotten not made as they claim because if you're saying that then you'll
have to say that God had sexual intercourse because that's literally what a literal son is yeah literally a son is a product of sexual intercourse are you saying God had sex M I would say say it to them quite frankly now most Christians would say no if they say yes then I I'd honestly say there's no conversation with that person I don't know what to say to someone at that stage right um most says so what do you mean so he's not really the son of God then he's not literally the Son of God do
you mean sort of God adopted him as a son and let me give you an example again of why this is absurd imagine I had you know with me today a a a a bowl right a fish bowl and inside the fish bowl was a fish floppy yeah floppy the fish I say to you this is floppy my son okay you'd say you're crazy you're crazy that's a fish I said no no it's my son you know the adoption papers are coming through next week uh you know under the new liberal laws that we have
in this country uh he eats dinner with me at the table he has a room in the house you know he's my son but you You' say look that's a fish you're you're a human being you can't adopt a fish as your son it doesn't have any meaning you can only adopt something as a son which is like you a human being in fact that's generally how humans historically have insulted each other by calling them you know you cow you pig you dog you son of a whatever right because why you equating a human being
with something lower than it okay um and um and so the point being here is that this is even more insulting to God to say that God has a human being as a son is insulting MH because God is not like in I mean we do share a lot of characteristics with animals in other words We're All Temporary we're all needy we're all finite we all born we all die God does not have any of those attributes is the opposite opposite so to equate the Creator with having as as his son a human being is
actually insulting God it's insulting God and it has real it has no meaning um if by Son of God what is meant is um as it has the use in semetic languages and this is where I don't want to go into this because that I guess that would be another level of of I don't want to go too much into it because we' have a long conversation about the origins of uh the the use of the term Son of God and what it meant in in Hebrew languages and Roman you know Latin and Greek and
so on and so forth um but even in semetic languages you know in Arabic we have Abu this Abu Hur doesn't mean he literally fathered a kitten it just means he's from the father of you know he means he loves that thing so if it means God loved him fine you know we don't have objection to that conceptually although the use according to Islam is not allowed right God has not allowed that he has God has not allowed us to use this term in referring to other human beings that we are the sons of God
we are the slaves we are the creat we are the servants the slaves the creatures maybe the slav is not the best translation we're the creatures of God sure all created by God and totally uh under the power of God sure so um that's generally how I'd refer okay excellent so now going into the discussion where you'd have some discussions with atheists they will pose some general common contentions yeah um for example Evolution how would you deal with somebody that is talking about Evolution to you yeah a lot of people um I mean Evolution the
idea of evolution is so ingrained in people now that they they they use evolution in areas where even science is self doesn't even claim that Evolution has any place right so you know when you say how did the universe exist exist it evolved but no scientist that I know of claims the universe evolved in the sense that they claim that Evolution happens because Evolution according to them is a product of random mutation of DNA plus natural selection so there has to be DNA so there has to be a process of the DNA mutating and changing
which changes the blueprint of how the physiology how outwardly a creature appears and then through natural selection the the most beneficial and successful uh mutations and changes are selected and that's how bit by bit you know creatures change and uh but there's no way of applying that to the universe Planet stars and galaxies do not have DNA there's no way for them to mutate and be randomly selected yeah yet the level of organization and the level of system iation in the universe is so much more than in biology yeah you know I mean um astrophysicists
and and nuclear physicists and they they've described you know at the atomic level for example it the the universe is like a massive mathematical formula mathematics is the language of the universe right it's mathematical we live in a mathematical Universe m um it's incredible to me how anyone could conclude except that there must be behind this you know an intelligence of a astronomical order how did you get such mathematical a mathematical Universe how um the the logical explanation is there's wisdom and power and intelligence behind it of an amazing magnitude and it would be seem
obvious to me that a person looking at all of that would would know that um and there's no way for evolution to happen yeah evolution is comp Evol biological biological species are relatively simple and that's something the Quran says that your creation is nothing in terms of the compared to the creation of the heavens and the Earth so you know the creation of human beings of life on Earth is a is a is a EAS is a relatively simple process compared to the creation of the universe itself um so Evolution doesn't get a look in
in go rap anyway because if person says Evolution said I'm not talking about you know animals and creatures the mobile phone is an inanimate object it's not living it may appear to you like it is it's not there's nothing living in a mobile phone it's just a collection of various materials collected together in a clever way to make it work as a tool sure right yeah um so it's the same thing we're not claiming when we use our go R we avoid and I think it's better to avoid things like you know the camels and
the creatures and although they're amazing and they are signs without doubt there are signs in those things but it when you're actually giving da it's useful to avoid them because this Narrative of evolution is very strong and you say well I didn't even mention living species I'm talking about a whole Arena where Evolution does not apply so what's your explanation right yeah see so basically saying that that Evolution itself doesn't actually deny that we have a Creator intelligent Creator because within the Gap itself because we've been talking about the cosmos and our universe we don't
even go into biology no we don't in other words Evolution does not get a look into go R right right I mean evolution is a different discussion alog together sure right but again it's just effective da technique it's not that it's not a good topic to talk about it's just that look if we can put if we can avoid that contentious issue by sidest stepping it all together and show there's more powerful arguments by looking in different areas to accept God's existence Evolution becomes irrelevant it's an irrelevancy we're not talking about evolution of species we're
talking about the universe itself so the examples we give is the alternation of the night in the day the different gases in the atmosphere you know the ozone layer the the the composition of water the the distance of the Earth from the Sun the there's no evolution in that yeah sure okay excellent so for example with some atheists I know we've kind of touched upon this but one of the the key contentions they always bring up is who created God so can you elaborate a little bit more uh on that contention and and you know
what a lot of people um have this objection in their mind now as you said we did cover that because if we go back to gorat when we talked about God's existence we went from understanding that the Universe needs some sort of Creator some sort of intelligence and power behind it we said that the nature of the Creator must be different from the creation right because if the nature of the Creator was not different you'd just have more creation Now someone would say that's fine then this Creator must have a Creator right M but then
the same question comes if the nature that I we could say yeah fine that's fine as an argument but then do you agree that the nature of this Creator is different from the creation if they say no because we're still going to have to end up you'll see we'll still have to end up with one unique self-sufficient Eternal being sure even if you have a thing you're going to have to get that we're going to explain why yeah we would say to them okay did this Creator have a Creator then is it different is the
nature of this Creator different or the same if they say it's the same right then you can ask that question well who created that Creator and you can soon imagine you go on who created the Creator who created the Creator who created the Creator who created the Creator and it goes on and on and on and on ADD infinum as they say forever yeah now there is a very simple logical reason why that can't happen right and I want to give you an example this is very powerful if you can Master this um imagine there
is a sniper mhm and this sniper has the Target in sight and say radio is back to base yeah yeah you know HQ Target such and such in sight now Bas says we have to ask higher up yeah and higher up says we have to ask higher up and higher up says I have to ask higher up and in other other words they higher up keeps going higher up yeah now if that keeps going on and on and on and on will the sniper ever pull the trigger never you no he just be waiting for
the command forever and ever and ever so there has to be a place where the command stops stop there has to be someone who issues the command there has to be it can't go on forever and ever because the trigger will never be pulled now if we go back to the creation it's the same thing just as the sniper will never pull the trigger if you have a Creator creating a Creator creating a Creator the finite universe will never be created just it's the same as the trigger will not be pulled the creation the universe
would not be created right but the universe is here it exists the fact of the existence of the universe is an synonymous to the sniper pulling the tri trigger the finite Universe must lead us to the belief that there must be an INF finite cause of the universe yeah right um and and and there's good reasons and compelling reasons to believe that infinite cause is intelligent is has wisdom and power and intelligence so again it leads us to that conclusion that the nature of the Creator must be different from the creation because an infinite regression
of creators creating creators creating creators it doesn't it doesn't have exist in reality it doesn't lead to anything being created which is also a potential reputation of various other things that you know atheists come up with in terms of infinite you know infinite universes and so on and so forth um because Infinity doesn't have existence in reality sure it it may exist in mathematics but in the real world uh infinity of caused things cannot be sure an infinite uncaused being yes but not an Infinity with creation itself okay that makes sense ABD Rim it's been
a pleasure to sit with you and take all this knowledge on board and hopefully in we can take all this knowledge practice it rewat rewatch the whole series and actually go out and apply all the knowledge we learn inshallah and remember we don't just learn da we have to live the dawa so for watching as always
