The Terrifying Exorcisms Of Anneliese Michel - Lights Out Podcast #16

Light out everybody what is up everybody welcome back to another episode of the lights out podcast as always i'm your host josh and i'm joined in the studio by my producer and brother joel today we have a truly terrifying episode for you about the demonic possession and exorcism Of anneliese michelle this is probably one of the most famous exorcism and demonic possession stories out there so much so that there's actually a horror movie that i'm sure many of you have seen that is based upon this case and that is the exorcism of emily rose which

i just watched at this past week again for the first time In many years and i gotta say it's actually a really good movie i really enjoyed it i thought it was uh they did a really good job at at showing what demonic possession is all about and just how horrible it is for the person that is possessed but before we get into the case of anneliese michelle i wanted to remind everybody if you want to support the show we'd really appreciate it if you go and Follow the show on spotify subscribe to us on

itunes and if you're one of the people that watches the show on youtube because we do put out a video form of the show which has a bunch of media in it so you can actually see what i'm talking about and what these stories are all about so be sure to subscribe to our youtube channel as well we'd really appreciate it it does really help us out Plus i also have some news that we've got some merch coming out hopefully in the next week or two i'll be able to actually announce what the merch is

and what the designs are so i'm very excited for that but yeah with all that being said let's go ahead and get right into the story of annelise michelle so we're going to begin by talking about annalise michelle's childhood you got to start from the very beginning And really understand who she was so annelise michelle was born anna elizabeth michelle on september 21st 1952 in libel fling germany her parents joseph and anna raised their family as devout catholics in the town of clingenberg bavaria which is located in western germany and the family lived in a

roomy two-story house and her father joseph Made a nice living running a sawmill near their home now the michelle family was deeply religious and very much catholic as they attended mass twice a week and a few years before annelise was born her mother anna had her first child named martha out of wedlock in 1948 now in a catholic family to have a child out of wedlock definitely is looked down upon and so the family was Shamed quite a bit for this and anna was actually forced to wear a black dress when she got married to

joseph now joseph and anna were very protective of their children especially after losing their daughter martha when she was just 8 years old after martha's death anneliese was now the oldest child at just 4 years old and she would eventually be the big sister to three other younger siblings annelise's mother anna rejected the Modern views of the catholic church that came with vatican ii a newly formed council of bishops and religious leaders who decided on revised beliefs and traditions for the church and she taught her daughters to do the same also during this time the

catholic church began to shift away from their literal belief in demons to a more you know theological point of view on demons you know kind of Like a mythology type of view which i find this very interesting that they sort of shifted their views on demons altogether because it seems like the catholic community is very split about what they actually believe a demon is as well as what demonic possession and exorcisms is and how all that sort of works because if you talk to some people they'll say that the catholic church Completely rejects this idea

of demonic possession and exorcisms but then on the other hand there's still people that are part of the vatican and part of the church that still you know actively do exorcisms for people that are possessed by demons which you definitely got to let me know if you'd like to see a whole episode in the future diving deep into exorcisms and You know really looking at the history of them because i find it very interesting that this subject has evolved so much over time and you know even with this steadfast belief that many religious people have

especially christians and catholics that you know demons really do exist the devil really exists so i find it really interesting to take a look at That from a more modern perspective so maybe i'll have to do that in a future episode but annelise's father joseph had planned to become a priest when he was younger and three of annelise's aunts were nuns actually and like her mother annalise held on to her faith even as the church shifted away from traditional practices when her parents started giving the sacrament of communion by hand she moved to a parish

that kept the Tradition of giving communion by mouth what annalise believed was the correct and proper way now annelise was a frail and sensitive girl and she would sometimes become suddenly overwhelmed while at mass her parents believed she would be a wonderful teacher and set her on this career path she was extremely empathetic toward the suffering of others and even at a young age she felt it was her responsibility To atone for other people's sins when she learned that homeless people and drug addicts often slept outside on the ground she started sleeping on the ground

as well instead of in her bed and when she was 16 years old annelise blacked out at school when she came too she was expressionless her eyes were vacant and she wandered around as if she were hypnotized and she had no memory of Blacking out or wandering around in a trance and that night after all this happened annelise experienced a tonic clonic seizure previously known as a grand mal seizure and while she was in bed she started convulsing her body shook violently and some of her muscles jerked uncontrollably while other muscle groups stiffened she even

lost Control of her bladder and wet the bed and when she woke up she felt a heavy weight on top of her as if some invisible force were trying to crush her to death eventually her parents took her to see a neurologist and she was diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy and in addition to seizures and memory loss temporal lobe epilepsy can cause a variety of alarming symptoms these seizures are categorized by sudden Intense emotions visual distortions difficulty or inability to speak an altered experience of the five primary senses a rising sick feeling in her gut

as if she were on a roller coaster while sitting perfectly still and deja vu annelise also likely had focal impaired awareness seizures which are short seizures lasting from 30 seconds to 2 minutes But the effects can be alarming symptoms include a lack of awareness confusion unusual speech sudden inability to speak or even understand words alarming repetitive behaviors and staring blankly it's also believed that analysts may have suffered from another condition called comorbid or geshwin syndrome a hallmark symptom of this condition is hyper religiosity or an intense and unnatural obsession With religious beliefs artifacts and experiences

that are often rooted in doctrine faith paranormal experiences and hallucinations related to that faith often occur so this is one of the biggest debates among people that believe in demonic possession and those that don't is that many people believe that what looks like somebody being possessed by demons is in fact just one of these Different conditions oftentimes you get diagnosed with some type of epilepsy and you're often given medicine for epilepsy or you know some of these other neurological conditions or disorders so that's what's really tough about demonic possession is is like how do you

actually know you know when somebody is possessed by demons if you believe that demons are real or They are just mentally ill and that's probably one of the biggest debates with the annelise michelle case now in 1970 annelise was hospitalized with tuberculosis a disease that can cause weight loss fatigue fever chills night sweats severe chest pain and even coughing up blood it can affect the bones abdominal glands and nervous system she also had tonsillitis Pneumonia pleurisy heart problems and circulatory problems and during treatment analysts heard strange sounds and reported feeling a sense of euphoria when

she prayed in june of that year annelise was staying at the hospital for treatment and after experiencing a seizure there she began taking prescribed anti-convulsant drugs to treat epilepsy but it didn't control her symptoms one of her first medications she took Was dilantin which is used to control seizure activity in the brain annalise started to experience even more bizarre symptoms she said she saw quote devil faces flashed before her eyes while she prayed and she took these demonic images as a warning and was scared to pray again she was then given aelept an anti-psychotic drug

sometimes used to treat schizophrenia Doctors hope that this drug would control the delusions annelise was experiencing because my god i can you know whenever i hear people that are like i see devil faces when i close my eyes or or something along that i'm just like holy [ __ ] i can't even imagine what that would be like you know sometimes i'm like god i wish Something like freaky would happen to me where you know i have a hallucination or i have some type of you know not not like a psychotic episode or something but

just like an experience some type of paranormal experience or a hallucinogenic experience or something and i just really haven't i've had a few kind of like night terror experiences but nothing where i felt like i actually physically saw Something so in analysis case seeing devil faces when you close your eyes to go to pray has got to be pretty terrifying and especially how consistent it is being for her that she's seeing those things closing her eyes like i'm just like you i i can't think of one time that i've experienced something similar to this so

it totally shows that there's possibly something out there Controlling her mind yeah something something is definitely affecting her and and at this point we're not really sure if it's you know these mental disorders she's been diagnosed with or if it's something more sinister but over the next five years annalise continued her treatment and kept taking the prescribed medications to control her symptoms but unfortunately her condition only got worse a few years after she started Taking medication anneliese was diagnosed with severe depression so she started to pray daily hoping her faith would save her but while

praying she experienced auditory hallucinations voices of demons whispered that she was damned and threatened that she would rot in hell at one point anneliese fell into a deep depression and even contemplated suicide she Developed a strong aversion to beloved symbols of her faith like a crucifix and to the church where she used to attend mass twice a week with her family she experienced an inexplicable foul smell that she described as hellish it could smell of something burning feces or even rotting flesh but no one around her could smell it one day while she was praying

annelise had a vision of the virgin mary The mother of god mary asked annelise to be a victim soul and to provide atonement for the german youth and priests who are moving away from the traditional teachings of the church annalise agreed and mary told her she would be possessed by demons to prove to the world that satan exists wow that's very interesting because you know if you're coming from a religious Standpoint i mean the virgin mary that's that's pretty big deal if she's actually appearing to you and and telling you something as serious as like

and why annalise why why her why does she have to be the one that carries this burden of having to become completely possessed by demons in order to prove that satan exists and i'm like that to me Doesn't make that much sense but at the same time i'm like oh i guess it's possible right anything is possible at one point a family friend organized a pilgrimage with annalise and her mother to a saint shrine the mother of god of son damiano in a [ __ ] italy during this trip anneliese approached a shrine where several

others were kneeling and praying in a surrounding garden and she said That the ground beneath her burned like fire as she approached she tried several times to enter the garden but couldn't and she watched the people praying and saw them gnash their teeth with rage so she's literally there to pray and the people that are there praying when she looks at them they have almost this demonic look to them and as they're gnashing their teeth They're like that's that's frightening and what's even crazier is that analysts couldn't look at a picture of christ or crucifix

when she tried to look at the images of saints and pictures or medals they shined so brightly it stung her eyes and on this trip annelise's guide took her to the christian holy spring hoping she could drink the water and be healed but instead it burned her and so she refused to drink it also just Being around this holy area it became very hard for anneliese to breathe so much so that she even tore off her rosary and refused a saint medal her father brought her to wear and then at that point she started speaking

in a deep male voice and then suddenly a disgusting pungent stench surrounded her after spending time with her on this Trip the guide concluded that she was possessed by a demon and needed an exorcism now the criteria for demonic possession had to be met before an exorcism could be performed and the priest acting as exorcist needed permission from the bishop the most common signs of possession include supernatural power such as exceptional strength and an extreme aversion to religious Relics annelise her family and their church community believed she was possessed and consulted with multiple priests about

an exorcism and each one recommended that annelise continue her psychiatric treatment because that's one of the things that exorcists and you know people that are involved with that try to do is they want to determine whether or not this is just Mental illness that is you know showing signs that are making her seem like she's possessed or is she actually possessed by demons so they have to rule out the mental illness part of it first before they will actually sanction an exorcism so at this point in time the church leaders felt like she needed to

continue psychiatric treatment and that she wasn't quite ready for an exorcism And despite her hardships anneliese graduated from secondary school which is the german equivalent of high school in 1973 and started attending the university of wurzburg that same year to train to become a teacher at the university annelise mostly kept to herself and didn't socialize her classmates noticed that she was usually distant and preoccupied with her religious Beliefs though she continued psychiatric treatment and kept taking her medication anneliese's health continued to deteriorate and her behaviors went from bizarre to downright terrifying annelise was compulsive and

seemed unable to control herself at times she would do 400 to 600 squats in one day and an equal number of genuflections a religious act of kneeling in prayer annalise then began to eat strange Things like coal flies and spiders she also screamed for hours at a time and once spent two full days living under a table and barking like a dog she even urinated on the floor and then got down on the ground and licked it up she soaked her underwear and urine and then chewed on them like gum also odd parts of her

body would swell Up for no reason and she ran around her house bucking like a goat as time went on she became more aggressive and wild sometimes tearing off all of her clothes and refusing to put them back on because she was burning up inside she even submerged her head in icy water or even in the toilet while naked to stop the burning and without warning after all this was Going on her body would be completely rigid and then she would succumb to this catatonic state she would lash out at herself or those around her

in fits of violence when she saw the demon faces she would growl at them and throw heavy objects that she couldn't even have been able to lift normally and during one of these episodes she picked up a dead bird And bit its head clean off damn this is just crazy absolutely insane it does remind me a lot of the film exorcism of emily rose because there's a couple scenes in there that that i think attempt to portray what what that actually looked like what annelise went through and it's it's truly terrifying because can you imagine

seeing your loved one you know if you're a parent you see your Daughter on the ground just like growling and licking up her urine like what do you even do i mean i'm sure you're just completely taken aback at what you're seeing and you just don't even know what to do for them like you're like i've already took them to the doctors like they said that it could be these mental conditions but it seems to be getting worse she seems to be getting more violent more aggressive What's also interesting about what she started doing next

was that she started destroying religious relics that she had been trying to avoid and it seemed that her behaviors would get more extreme and bizarre on sundays and other holy days and just when you think things were crazy enough supernatural occurrences seemed to follow her swarms of flies appeared in the house And then disappeared her parents also saw shadowy creatures darting around her by late fall of 1973 annelise started taking a new medication tegratol to control her seizures and stabilize her moods even though annalise seemed committed to her medical treatment and continued to take whatever

medication her doctors prescribed nothing seemed to help her and her family became more and more Convinced that the only explanation for her erratic strange and violent behaviors was demonic possession because at that point i mean after you've tried all these prescribed medications i'm sure you're like well what the [ __ ] is it then if it's not a mental illness and none of these medications are working then what else is there just demonic possession and also on that note i wanted to say That whenever i talk about prescription medications i'm by no means telling anybody

to get off of these just because you know the people that i'm telling these stories about are having maybe bad reactions to them i obviously understand that people's prescription medications are prescribed to them for a reason and that not everybody has negative experiences with them but i do find it interesting That in so many of these cases we see medications that are being given to these people that are having these adverse effects for them and in this particular case i'm sure being on all these different you know neurological medications probably wasn't helping her condition because

as you probably know all these medications affect the brain differently and we don't totally know how these different medications Work in conjunction with each other and you know if you have large doses of these then there's always a chance that it can make the problems worse it could make her mental state worse so i think it's important to keep in mind that you know as her behavior is getting crazier and crazier that perhaps there is some effect of the different medications that she was on that could be amplifying These you know different hallucinations and you

know what they're calling demonic activity there definitely could be something there so at this point without really anywhere else to turn it seems like the doctors have all failed annalise they decided to turn to a priest and the first priest the family consulted with and who agreed to actually take a look at annelise was father Ernest alt who was a young priest in his late 30s so father alt spent several sessions with annalise in prayer and conversation and after they had these sessions together it seemed like her you know her quality of life would improve

but only for a short while while assessing annalise father all believed she was displayed the classic traits Of a possessed person though he never personally witnessed one of her seizures he did not believe her symptoms were caused by epilepsy annelise even told him quote i want to suffer for other people but this is so cruel on september 30th 1974 father alt appealed to bishop joseph stangle to give his permission for an exorcism to be performed on anneliese However the bishop refused and told the priest to keep spending more time with her and encouraging her to

get medical help which makes no sense because that's pretty much all the help that she had been getting was medical help and it didn't really seem to make a difference yeah and i think that's ridiculous how the bishop you know just continued to think it was A medical condition of some sort because i'm not sure if the doctors at the time were comparing analysts with other cases that they were you know that they've experienced to me if if there is somebody who's speaking in multiple different voices sounding demonic and absolutely crazy and displaying all sorts

of like strange behavior I mean how is that not a sign right there that this could be a demonic possession i mean it's it's like somebody is within her and taking full control of her like how is that epilepsy or any kind of other condition yeah i mean i i think it's i think this whole idea of epilepsy being you know the main thing she's diagnosed with was Is obviously she had epilepsy and that could cause the you know erratic movements of her body and the stiffness and the rigid rigidness that would happen to her

body but at the same time i mean we do have to remember that she was diagnosed with schizophrenia at one point and if you know anything about schizophrenia people do oftentimes hear voices there's hallucinations so It's very very tough and that's why this this whole topic of demonic possession is so controversial because so many people out there do not believe that these people are in fact dealing with demons at all but that this is just severe mental illness and that this is just the brain and it's the brain creating all of this and for whatever

reason the brain creating is creating demons and creating demonic voices and And all that but i'm with you at the same time too because i think it's very weird that you know they just you know you slap you know these diagnoses on her and yet there's symptoms that do not match up with these different things i mean the the idea of a male voice coming out of a female like i i don't know and and just wait till you hear what this sounds like but to me it seems like maybe there's Something more there i

mean could it be a combination of things sure but i don't know it's it's one of those things that i just don't think we understand and i don't think we'll ever fully understand you know i mean we barely know how the brain works we barely know how you know some of these mental illnesses fully work and obviously everybody has a different experience with them so In these demonic possession cases it's just so hard to really you know figure out where that line is where where at what point is it the mental illness and at what

point is it something else you know demons or or something along those lines i think it's really really hard to say but annelise and her parents continued to beg the church to allow an exorcism believing that this was the only hope For their daughter to be saved from demonic possession because i mean why not have an exorcism i mean if she if demonic possession is real and she is being tormented by demons that are inside of her why wouldn't the church want to help her you know why wouldn't to me i always find the catholic

church a little weird because there is so much politicalness to it there's so much of a hierarchy you know you got to get the Bishop's permission you got to get you know this sanctioned from the vatican and it to me it's like i wonder why why not just go out and perform an exorcism on anybody and everybody that wants it because in in the case that this is a real demonic possession why would you want to gamble on you know whether or not it's real or not or they're just having a mental Illness especially since

annelise has been treated for mental illness for a long time at this point but as time went on things did not get better for anneliese in 1975 she suffered a multitude of different losses her grandmother died and her sisters who were younger than her ended up leaving home what's interesting though is that annelise actually did Have a boyfriend named peter at one point she never showed much attraction or sexual desire for peter but she confided in him telling him that she believed she was eternally damped annelise continued her fits of screaming obscenities and throwing things

at peter and her parents all while begging for help from father alt later that year analyst sent a letter to him Writing i am nothing everything about me is vanity what should i do i have to improve you pray for me after father alt got her letter he came to see her on july 1st and annelise was hysterical after he left she got much worse and she would lie in her bed perfectly stiff and when she walked she didn't bend her knees at all she also had tons of outbursts of screaming obscenities Growling and physically

attacking those around her and this just continued to intensify as time went on and obviously father alt is observing a lot of this so he clearly knows something is very very wrong with anneliese so he continued to appeal her case to the bishop and then finally a jesuit priest named adolf rudowick a frankfurt an expert on Exorcisms recommended that bishop stangle allow the exorcism to proceed the bishop finally granted permission for an exorcism to commence in september of 1975 and he brought in a more experienced priest in his mid 60s named fathered arnold renz to

assist father alt in the exorcism of annalise using the 364 year old rights of exorcism But there was one catch the bishop ordered that the exorcism be held in the strictest confidence with all those involved being sworn to secrecy which to me i'm like that's so weird why why would you want to do this in secret like wouldn't you want to study this and make this public and make this public for scientists and all those other people out there to Observe if this is real as they claim why wouldn't you want this public i just

find it very weird that they oftentimes did exorcisms in complete secret i'm definitely with you on that it's like what are they trying to hide you know if if this is in fact a case of demonic possession like why wouldn't they want to learn from it and you know share it with the public To make everyone aware that this type of thing can happen to people and better prepare for it in the future you know i it just yeah it doesn't make any sense why they just want to hide that yeah and if you think

about it having an exorcism you know filmed and photographed and you know made public would actually in if this is all in fact real could be great evidence to bring to the World and be like you know you don't believe in the devil you don't believe in hell you don't believe in demons we'll take a look at this look at this crazy case we had of somebody possessed by demons right now do you believe like to me that seems like a no-brainer like why wouldn't you do that because it could be great evidence to bring

To non-believers you know skeptical people out there that think this is all [ __ ] that hey you want to see a real case here you go so the fact that this was done in secrecy is definitely a little bit weird so the first rite of exorcism was performed in the fall of 1975 and it was very brief annelise's parents and a few friends and her boyfriend as well as the priests Attended annalise sobbed and moaned uncontrollably and felt like her whole body was on fire three men held her down while she thrashed and kicked

and even bit them the priest then sprinkled her with holy water and after this happened she started screaming obscenities and howling like a dog if you've ever seen a movie about exorcism or You know videos you know that the holy water as soon as the holy water hits somebody that's possessed you know it it starts attacking you know the demons inside and usually the person starts displaying just absolutely insane behavior and screaming out so that's exactly what she was doing and do you think it was annalise actually experiencing all of that pain from that or

do you think it was the Demon that was retaliating back at those you know measures i think a priest would say that it's the demon reacting to the holy water you know because if you think about it just dropping holy water on you know a person's skin is not going to make you start freaking out but for a demon it's going to start you know impacting them if that's this blessed water you know from god that they're going to you know start Screaming in pain and it's just being displayed through you know this vessel that

they are inhabiting so yeah i don't think necessarily her as a because it's such a weird concept to wrap your head around that there is the person analyst the person the human and then there's the demon or demons that are inhabiting her you know have taken over her Her soul or her you know spiritual part of her body and so yeah it's it's really weird to wrap your head around that concept but after they put the holy water in her they knew that the exorcism was the right answer to the problem so father all proceeded

with the full go-ahead by the bishop and over the next 10 months in 1975 and 1976 67 exorcisms were performed on anneliese and all of them were done in secret wow that's that's crazy 67 different times are they just doing the same exorcism like over and over and over or is there like actually an escalation process you know i can't imagine there's 67 different exorcisms that could be performed and maybe it's just reputation just drilling it into whoever's Inhabiting her to to get out yeah there's only so many different exorcisms you can do there's the

minor and the major rite of exorcism and you know we'll talk about that more in another episode but yeah i mean it's just a lot of repetition to try and you know force it out and i guess tire the demon out to the point where you know it leaves the body but at the same time you know either this is an Extremely powerful demon or a number of different demons that are just not wanting to leave her body or anneliese is just severely mentally ill like real just to a point that you know is so

severe that this behavior is just continuing over and over again for months and months and months it just depends on what you believe about this case So annelise endured one or two exorcisms every single week and each session lasted at least one hour and the longest session was four hours shortly after they began annelise and her parents stopped her psychiatric treatment believing that exorcism was all she needed to be cured all the while annalee still believes that she was meant to die for others Sins including the rebellious youth and heretic priests of her time annelise

even fasted eating less and less until she was severely malnourished and dehydrated and she remained in a state of semi starvation for almost a year and she even got on her knees and prayed so much that she ripped the tendons in her knees And broke the bones because you can imagine that being malnourished i mean you're going to lose a lot of weight and the pictures of her just she looks like she's decomposing while she's alive so as she's losing weight and losing body mass because of you know the fact that she's not eating it's

just crazy to think about her Breaking her knees by just praying that's just crazy to think about but even after all these devastating and painful injuries annelise continued to kneel in prayer and during the exorcisms the priest restrained annalise they held her arms and wrists tightly and sometimes her mother would wrap her arm across her daughter's neck and chest to keep her still at times annalise was even chained to a Chair in order to restrain her she became so weak and frail that she could hardly move on her own and she continued to lose weight

at an alarming rate what's craziest about this case is that the priests actually made audio recordings of the exorcisms which i'm like wasn't this supposed to be done in secrecy yet they still recorded it because from what we know About exorcisms when they are performed they are often recorded video audio because they do have to provide evidence to the vatican and to the bishop and those that sanction the exorcisms that so that they can actually review it and determine whether or not a demonic possession has actually occurred or if it is you know just mental

illness or something like that So there's actually some clips and we'll play a extended clip of her during the exorcisms and it is definitely disturbing to listen to [Applause] [Music] [Applause] bbc [Music] [Music] uh [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Applause] so as you heard in these recordings there is this voice that is coming out of her that has this guttural tone to it and you can't even fully understand what she's saying because it seems like she's speaking another language Not only that she's hissing she's spitting at the priests screaming and at times just rambling and it

was after witnessing all of this that the priest believed that there was multiple evil spirits that were possessing annalise throughout her life according to the priests she was possessed by the biblical figure cain who murdered his brother in the book of genesis Can't that's that's really interesting to think about that cane you know if you know that bible story cain and abel right that cain would actually be like some type of evil spirit i've never even heard of that before you know like i guess it's possible that he could be but i don't know i

just thought that was interesting but they also said a demon exercised by Jesus christ in the new testament named legion was also one of the spirits even judas iscariot who was the one that betrayed jesus and ultimately ended in jesus dying was one of the spirits the murderous tyrannical emperor of rome nero a disgraced priest from the 1500s named valentin fleshman and even hitler were the evil spirits that Spoke through anneliese with a heavy austrian accent so if you you know if you go back and listen to those you can definitely hear some type of

accent it's hard to make out exactly what she's saying and i don't know how these priests you know ended up with these different names for evil spirits you know like they're not just demon names like we've heard in other stories where they're like oh it's This particular demon this is their name but in fact that she was possessed by multiple spirits it's very interesting to to wrap your head around and as far as analysis parents knew she had no historical knowledge of valentin freshman and shameful acts but they were recounted in great detail as father

fleshman spoke through her calling himself the black one the priest also discovered she was possessed By satan himself identified as lucifer and belial adding a grave urgency to their efforts that's a whole interesting story too that we can talk about another time about belial which was apparently one of basically like satan's right hand man but also satan himself from the old testament i don't know it's it's it's very interesting so all these different evil spirits are Inhabiting annalise so when you think about that and who we just talked about that's [ __ ] insane hitler

satan himself like this is [ __ ] horrifying she got like the worst of the worst as far as you know demonic entities go and it does make me think back on what you said how annelise one night you know in her dream she was Approached by mary and i mean was mary like giving her a sign that you're literally going to be a human sacrifice for a demonic infestation and why yeah it goes back to like why did they choose her that's the biggest question of this whole story is why did they choose annalise

like why her out of everybody why was she the one that had to carry this enormous burden Of being possessed by all these evil spirits especially these specific ones i mean my god i i guess the hope is that people believe that it is in fact these you know individual spirits that they named and therefore people would believe that you know the devil's real and god is real and all that i don't know i think there's a lot of questions still to be answered But these evil spirits would converge and use analysis voice to argue

with one another annelise would grunt and scream in the voices of the demons they fought for dominance inside of her body as she thrashed and growled and they all said shocking vile things through her hitler said men are so beastly stupid they believe that after death all is finished but life goes on either up or down Apparently judas snarled back telling hitler he had a big mouth and no real say in hell judas then went on to say some of the most disturbing things said by the demons including i am damned for eternity you careless

people if you could just imagine what it is to be damned for eternity i am damned i will not come out of the girl Down there it is too tormenting if people knew what was in store for them by not going to church it will fair them extremely bad these modernists are the result of my work and they are already belong to me meanwhile kane's message was simple he said i have killed my brother i am burning and there was many other warnings from these evil spirits about the afterlife The disgraced priests fallington fleshman said

i am damned because i fulfilled my duties very badly i prayed too little i was always in a hurry to finish my sacred duties now i am down there languishing for eternity and perhaps most relevant to anneliese he said if the bishops did not permit communion in the hand this would not have happened also nero the emperor warned The rosary should be recited or else it is the end throughout all the exorcisms analysts continue to pray the rosary he also said abortion is homicide then satan himself said i want to conquer the earth for myself

in the meantime i make a rich booty i am filling up my kingdom i take whatever i can take i must convince you of this and during another exorcism he said The priests should say that i exist or else they will all go down and again there is a ton there's like hours of audio that's out there from these exorcisms where you know if you've got some time and you want to hear all this what i just read for yourself you can try to make out what annelise is saying in those recordings Now what's interesting

is that some of the different mutterings that came from the demons that were supposedly inhabiting anneliese seem to echo her beliefs about the changes in the church they said the modernists are killing the church we are hard at work at this no one speaks any longer of us demons especially the parish priests people should go to confession holy water should come back to the houses Also the crucifix should return to its place in the home the holy face should be venerated the divine mercy image should be propagated another warning message said this is the month

of the rosary but very few recite it because the parish priests think it's not modern they are so foolish if they knew its importance it is a strong weapon against satan and against us demons the most powerful voices were Judas and lucifer with the other demons chiming in periodically now what's interesting to me about this is that why would demons you know be trying to convince people to believe in god and the devil you know why would you want to convince people that that this is all real if the whole purpose is to try to

bring them to hell you know like clearly you know if you Were telling people this the most natural reaction would be to start believing in god so you know from what i understand you know about demons is that if demons are real then their goal is to deceive you they want to they lie to you they'll tell you anything you want to hear in order to get what they want so my whole question around this is why are they essentially saying Do all these things these are all good things to do otherwise you're going to

end up down here with us now why would demons be saying this so this is where i'm you know my skeptical side of my brain starts coming in and i'm like hmm this is very weird because these demons are also starting to say things that anneliese would say and Thoughts and opinions that annelise actually had about the church so where is you know where is that line where is it anneliese saying these things where is it these demons that are saying these things and i think that's the biggest mystery here is how do we know

what's demonic and what's actually just annalise saying these things I don't think there's really any way to know but i think it's important to know all the things i just said so those that attended her exorcisms often felt the physical heaviness of an evil presence in the house one demon told the priest that annelise had been cursed before she was born by a jealous neighbor and her parents actually remembered the woman but that woman had since died that's interesting because we've heard This before about somebody being cursed but would a curse be able to you

know cause her to become inhabited by all of these different evil spirits and again let's remember that annalise said that the virgin mary appeared to her and actually told her the reason why she would become possessed by demons so which one is it what's also interesting though is that apparently Jesus even spoke to anneliese himself he promised her that she would be rewarded for her sacrifice and that she would become a saint and marry well as exorcisms continued annalise ate less and less and rarely drank water until she was hardly consuming anything at this point

in time her body was covered in bruises and she had black eyes and broken teeth And the photos that we have of of her definitely display that i mean she looks in very bad shape real big dark black circles around like her whole eye like almost as if she got punched in the eyes like i almost wonder if she punched herself in the eyes because they're literally bruised like as if somebody had punched her real hard in the eye socket Anneliese also obsessively scratched her own skin causing deep and painful lesions and sores she also

bled from her nose and mouth and lost a lot of her hair nevertheless she exhibited unexplainable bouts of strength during increasingly violent episodes and during these violent episodes the priest would chain analysts to a chair or would hold her down in order to continue the ritual Eventually it seemed that annalise had made up her mind that she would die for the sins of her generation and for the modern priests who are changing the traditions of the church so she's basically a martyr like she's she's taken taken the fall for all the sin that's that's pretty

crazy to think about at this point she refused all medical treatment for her epilepsy and she stopped eating altogether she Had made up her mind that she was going to starve to death which if you get off medication for epilepsy obviously you're going to start thrashing around and you're going to start having you know epileptic episodes so again it's like where is the line you know where is the activity caused by the epilepsy that she has and where is the activity caused by the demons i Think it becomes increasingly difficult to to define that especially

once she comes off of medical treatment annelise even said to father ren's quote father i never thought it would be as cruel as this i always thought i would want to suffer for others so they would not have to go to hell but that it could be this bad and this cruel and terrible In october of 1975 the priest succeeded in exercising the demons from anneliese as each one left her body she vomited violently and this is something that's commonly believed by exorcists that when a demon is expelled from the body it's almost in the

form of puking which if you want some interesting footage to watch go to youtube and just type in exorcisms and there's plenty of footage Of people performing exorcisms and oftentimes what you do find is they have a bucket beneath the person so that you know when the demon is actually expelled from them i guess it comes out in the form of vomit into the bucket as she vomited each demon exited and as they did they apparently said hail mary full of grace and then they were gone the priest sang a song and said a prayer

To mary and to seal each demon out of anneliese's body the priest also sang a song and said a prayer to mary as the demons were expelled from anneliese and so that they would not return to her body but one did return telling the priest he had been inside annelise all along and wasn't going anywhere and it took over a week Of exorcisms before the priests were finally able to get the demon to admit who he was and it was in fact judas he said mary told him to return to anneliese and to stay within

her until mary returned only then could all the demons be exercised and as a result of judas returning to her body annalise's life was pure torture in december and january the demon seemed less lively and kept swapping identities Annelise continued to have violent outbursts even outside of the exorcisms by march she was much weaker and during one of the exorcisms she stayed in bed barely conscious and unresponsive right before easter in april anneliese announced that a great trial was ahead of her as she compared her suffering to jesus's crucifixion she stayed in bed longer and

longer as the days went on lying perfectly still In may her parents took her to stay at a psychiatric hospital but all she did there was scream and lie rigid in bed she continued to refuse to eat explaining that the demons were strangling her annelise told peter and her family that her agony would continue until july and then it would all be over she only stayed in the hospital for about a week before her parents brought her home Which maybe that was a mistake to bring her home from the hospital maybe the psychiatric hospital was

the best place for her because when they brought her home her pain and suffering only grew more severe each day she screamed in agony throwing herself into walls and hitting herself she even bit her own skin and try to chew through walls breaking her teeth in the Process she then ran her head through a glass door but somehow wasn't injured she rarely slept and when she did it was only for a few hours at a time and unfortunately the demons no longer responded during the exorcisms at the end of may father alt invited dr richard

roth to attend an exorcism and provide any needed medical care to analyse and during the exorcism dr Roth told her quote there is no injection against the devil annalise and he offered no medical intervention when father alt saw annelise for the last time on june 8 she was wasting away all she would consume was small amounts of milk and fruit juice father alt said annelise was going through a penance possession where she had to suffer for others since father renz continued the regular Exorcisms and anneliese's family anxiously waited for july when she said her suffering

would stop annelise at this point was refusing to see a doctor but she asked father renz for absolution on june 9th and again on june 30th the second time he agreed after father renz left that day annelise was exhausted She had developed pneumonia and had a high fever and told her mother she was afraid and tragically annelise died in her sleep that night from starvation malnutrition and dehydration on july 1 1976 she was 23 years old and weighed only 68 pounds wow that is crazy and it was her you know a completely natural death in

a lot of sense like she died of starvation and malnutrition and Dehydration you know not from something that the demon did per se and that goes back to your points on obviously it was a big mistake taking annalise out of the psychiatric hospital because if she would have remained there the whole time then she would have been getting the nutrition they they would have been you know keeping track of all of her vitals Ensuring that they were doing everything that they could to keep her alive but in a sense it's it's a good thing that

she goes back home because then she has her family there with her i'm i'm guessing that her family were constantly at her side and you know making sure she was okay when obviously she wasn't but they didn't have that you know immediate medical treatment if you're Not eating and you're dying of starvation at least at the hospital they can you know tube feed you they can literally feed you through a tube if you're not going to accept food through the mouth there's other ways to get nutrition there's ivs there's lots of other ways medically to

keep somebody from diving from starvation and yet you know the parents decided that it Was a better idea to bring her home because yeah she was miserable at the hospital it wasn't a good situation there but it was even worse at their house so to me it seems like a complete failing on on their part that they pulled her out of the hospital because i i believe that she probably would have survived if she had just stayed in the hospital for a longer period of time i mean she was only there for a week And

at this point in time i mean she's already been undergoing exorcisms for months and months and months a year you know there's been so much exorcism done that like at what point do you draw the line and you're like okay maybe this isn't demonic possession you know these priests are telling us that there's all these evil spirits in her but maybe this is just severe This could be like a severe case of schizophrenia to the point well i mean there's plenty of people if you a lot of people this is a very interesting point that

a lot of people make is that if if you've never been to an asylum or you know a place where people are you know criminally insane or something like that if you've never been to a place like that it'd be very easy to say Yeah this person's possessed by demons but if you go and actually see what people who deal with severe mental i mean the most severe mental disorders that are out there and you actually are around them you're gonna you you would probably look at them and say oh my god they are probably

possessed by something but in reality they're just dealing with Severe mental illness and so i i think in this particular case i think they made a mistake by bringing her home after only a week in the hospital because i mean at 68 pounds that is severely underweight for a 23 year old female like that's devastating so yeah because i mean at this point the exorcisms haven't really worked i mean they got they expelled some of the demons out of it but at the Same time she's still displaying the same things it's still you know the

the possessions actively going on so where do you draw the line where does her life become you know the most important thing and unfortunately in this case it seemed like they you know the family just really didn't know what to do at the end of the day That she unfortunately ended up passing away and what's interesting in the movie the exorcism of emily rose the priest who was with analise most of the time you know at the end was being accused of anneliese's death because he decided you know in the movie that annalise should be

taken off all medication while they were continuing the exorcisms to see if that made any kind of difference But in this case the actual story annalise refused the medication but her being on medication for so long it i could see how that might have been a really bad idea as well because you know her body just got so used to taking that medication to nothing at all to maybe her mind at that point in time just couldn't handle you know that night and day difference of With medication without medication well and it's the religious belief

that the medication this you know neurological medication that she's on could be you know actually keeping the demons trapped inside you know like in in the film that's exactly what they said is that she had to come off of this medication because it was actually making the possession worse And it wasn't allowing the exorcisms to actually work now obviously this is completely up in the air you know we have no scientific proof to prove that exorcism actually works or does anything so it's very dangerous to take somebody off of a serious medication especially epileptic medication

schizophrenia medication to treat that it's extremely Dangerous to do that because obviously their symptoms and and all the behaviors and and whatnot are going to get severely worse so all of this completely makes sense and yeah that's exactly what happened in analysis case is that after she died the father alt and father renz claimed that the wounds the same wounds that jesus had when he Was crucified on the cross you know the holes in the hands actually appeared on her and this signified that she had been cured and they said that this was sort of

a divine proof that her soul had been freed from the demonic possession now again this is coming from the priest we don't have any way to prove whether or not that's true or not so after analysis Death there was an investigation that was done and it found that if she had received basic medical attention one week before her death she could have been saved so again that goes back to my point about she should have stayed in the hospital the priests and annelise's parents were charged with negligent homicide and they actually stood trial starting on

march 30th 1978 And before the trial began a nun told annelise's parents that she saw a vision of their daughter in her grave and her body had not decomposed at all the nun said that annelise's body would provide proof of god mary eternal life resurrection spirits demons and hell hoping to provide evidence that annelise had been touched by the divine just before she died they actually got permission to have her body exhumed Claiming they wanted to provide a better coffin hundreds of people actually came out to watch her body be exhumed from the ground on

a freezing cold day in february and when they brought her body out of the ground it was found to be in a state of advanced decomposition and her parents were highly discouraged from viewing their daughter in this State which this goes exactly against what the nun just said that you know she believed it seemed like the priests and and the religious people surrounding this case truly believe that she was like a martyr for god and that she was really supposed to be the symbol of the divine and unfortunately that was pretty much disproven when they

found her decomposed Body in the ground as we'd all expect her to be now father renz visited the mortuary to view the body but he was not allowed inside annelise ended up being re-buried in a new oak coffin lined with tin on february 25 1978 the trial was recovered extensively in the media and the public was fascinated and horrified at the same time by this case an exorcism was considered Highly unusual and scandalous by germany's heavily secular population what's interesting is that a survey was conducted by fryeburg institute for borderline psychology and the survey found

that 63 of catholics in germany in 1974 reported a belief in the devil however a german public opinion poll by the wickery organization in 1976 found that 89 of more than 2 000 people Polled answered no when asked if they believed in the devil in any form now the catholic church had actually paid for lawyers for the defense and annelise's parents were defended by a prominent german lawyer who previously defended accused nazi war criminals doctors were brought in to testify for the prosecution explaining analysis psychological condition and how being raised in a strict Religious household

contributed to her mental impairment delusions and other symptoms while the prosecution sought to prove that analysis death was preventable and that her condition was medical and not the result of demonic possession they asked that the priests receive a fine over jail time and that her parents received no punishment in german law they could be found guilty But the court could decide that they had suffered enough and opt out of any formal punishment however the defense argued that exorcism was a religious practice that was fully protected by the basic law for the federal republic of germany

the german constitution regardless of what took place during the exorcism or the outcome those crazy recordings made by the priests during the exorcisms were Actually played at the trial by the defense in order to prove that analyst was possessed by multiple demons who could be heard arguing in the recording and while these recordings were played in court one of analisa's sisters began sobbing and actually ran out of the courtroom the prosecution continued to call doctors to testify about the various physical and psychological conditions that afflicted annalise During these testimonies her mother moaned oh dear god

every time a doctor blamed her symptoms on treatable illnesses rather than demonic possession bishop joseph stangle who approved the exorcisms of anneliese was investigated but was never charged and did not testify in court he maintained that he had never been informed of her previous mental health symptoms diagnoses and treatment The priest and annelise's parents were all found guilty of negligent manslaughter by a three-judge panel and sentenced to six months in jail this was way less severe punishment than what the public actually expected but soon after the sentences were suspended and they only served three years

of probation what's absolutely crazy though about all this is that despite How much annelise suffered and the fact that she died her mother said she doesn't regret anything she believes the exorcisms were justified and that analyst was meant to atone for the sins of others through her death and that the exorcisms ultimately accomplished that after the trial the number of exorcisms performed in germany significantly decreased german priests Did not want to be associated with the exorcism of analysts michelle and they believed that the church had moved past such archaic practices they were especially disturbed by

the practice of the exorcist speaking directly to the demon instead of to the person who is suffering in 1984 german bishops and other religious leaders asked the church to revisit the regulations of exorcisms And abolish the practice of speaking to the demons during the ritual including saying things like i command the unclean spirit however the church made no decision until 1999 and they opted to not abolish the practice of speaking to possessing demons directly what's crazy is that in the end on june 6 2013 the home where annelise actually lived And died caught on fire

police deemed it arson but many people believe a lingering evil presence sought to destroy the house but those who live in the town of clingenberg are ashamed that one of their residents died so horrifically at the hands of religious figures practicing a dangerous and outdated ritual annelise has become an icon for Catholics who believe strongly in the traditional teachings of the church and who reject any attempt to modernize the faith buses of people to this day come to anneliese's gravesite on pilgrimages to honor and thank her pray for her and sing songs they leave notes

on her grave asking for her support and guidance on their own journeys they believe that annalise can purify their Souls and view her as a saint for years anneliese's mother stood at her daughter's grave handing flyers to visitors with a daily prayer to thank god for annelise's sacrifice which paved the way for the generation of sinners to become fully devoted to god's will now with all that being said was annalise michelle really possessed by demons or was she just a tragic case of severe mental Illness that went untreated that resulted in her death i think

that's the biggest debate here is which one is it because it seems like the mass majority of people believe that it was severe mental illness that ultimately led to her death and it was the parents and priests that prohibited her from getting the treatment that she needed And essentially took her out of the medical care she was receiving for that mental illness and which ultimately resulted in her dying from those things but on the other hand if you're a believer of demons and angels and heaven and hell then maybe you do believe that she is

you know this person that was for whatever reason chosen to carry this burden and endure the ultimate you know Sacrifice of having to deal with all these demons in order to be become a saint and become sort of this beacon of light for other catholics and i think honestly a lot of catholics would probably be pretty split so i i don't know what what do you think at the end of the day what are your final thoughts on on this case do you think she was possessed by demons or do you think this Was a

severe case of mental illness that went untreated they were doing so many exorcisms right like i think at the end of this it was like 70 plus exorcisms right and you know we've done cases in the past like the glatzel family you know where david glatzel the son was possessed by multiple demons and after doing i can't remember the exact amount of exorcisms but they were Finally the priests were finally able to rid david of the demons who possessed him but in this case uh you know with analyse they they were doing exorcisms all day

long for a long long long time and still they they could not rid her of those demons so anneliese's mind could have been right the the biggest factor there was no in there probably wasn't if it was a Demon then it should have been expelled by that point right like if you are if you have the ability to perform exorcisms and you have expelled demons from people before or so you claim why why after almost 70 exorcisms did you were you not successful and that's why i think there is also the possibility that this idea

of all these individual evil spirits you know hitler And judas and you know the most evil people they can think of are possessing her and that's why they can't get rid of these spirits is so conveniently placed into this story because it feels like almost a scapegoat for the priests so that they don't look ridiculous and they don't look like you know as guilty as they probably should have looked i mean they still they still were actually charged because Of this case and so i think it could have been far worse for them if if

you know they didn't you weren't so lenient on priests and obviously doesn't look good to you know put a bunch of priests in prison and whatnot for negligent homicide but at the end of the day i mean the fact that they all were guilty of manslaughter just shows you that the reality is is that that could have All just been a [ __ ] made-up thing to make it seem like they were doing something and unfortunately annalise's parents believed what they were doing was true and that you know these evil spirits were these individuals which

again according to the recordings supposedly the names come out and all that and you can un you know she says the these names of these spirits herself I don't know it's it's pretty [ __ ] hard to understand the recording so i i don't know if you can really discern exactly what she's saying from that but the biggest thing i wanted to point out too and the reason why i'm super skeptical about demonic possession just as a whole is that if you ask go to ask a priest or somebody that deals with exorcisms in demonic

possession you ask How does somebody become possessed well they become possessed by sinning well not only just sinning but if you you know listen to a certain kind of music you open you watch scary movies you make a podcast about stuff that we talk about you're opening yourself up for evil spirits to enter your body according to these priests we do all these things That a priest would say is going to open yourself up to demons i think pretty much most of of you guys out there do the same as well are we all possessed

by demons are we all going to be you know overtaken and turn into analysis situation and that's where you know i'm really skeptical because i don't believe that just because you explore You know astrology even if you study astrology or believe in astrology if you practice witchcraft if you're you know part of the wiccan religion a priest is going to say all that stuff is going to open you up to the devil into demons and therefore you shouldn't do those things because you're going to become possessed by them and if you watch all these exorcism

videos on youtube all of these Pastors and priests say the same thing so for me especially as somebody that was once in the rel you know christian religion i'm extremely skeptical of of demonic possession because i personally don't believe that just because you do x y and z or you know you you look you like the darker side of of life or you look into some of these Topics that you're necessarily opening yourself up to demonic possession and i think a lot i think there's definitely dark entities i think there's evil spirits but do they

have the ability to possess a human like annalise michelle i don't i don't necessarily believe it's possible i don't know we'll leave it up to you guys what do you guys think about this what do you think about Demonic possession do you believe in it do you think annalise michelle was possessed or was this a severe case of mental illness you'd definitely have to let us know your thoughts or if you've ever experienced an exorcism and if you'd like to see us dive into the topic more and you know really see where this all started

and and why we have this You know right of exorcism at all you know where did this come from so let us know below but with all that being said that is it for this episode of the lights out podcast hopefully you enjoyed it if you did let us know subscribe on youtube subscribe on itunes follow us on spotify but until next time lights out everybody [Music] You