Welcome back to another podcast and today I am joined with Corey hello kajra thank you for inviting me I can tell you that this will be the most professional SEO podcast in the history of search engine optimization perfect I'm glad that I've got your uh your stamp of approval on that yes it's hard to not notice the professionality around here we do we do not mess around we're in Dubai we may as well do it Properly in person so uh um first of all thanks for joining me but thanks for inviting I want to ask
you what so you're known as the topical Authority guy now um but let's go back a few years and talk about how you got into SEO um okay and when you weren't Mr topical Authority I feel like that's that's the name that everybody gives you nowadays but what what did you do before so when I was about to graduate from the University uh I was looking for Something to do and I actually even did a few internship with in different areas like social media marketing and other sections and I didn't like it because they were
usually doing the same thing repeatedly for every other company especially like scheduling the shares Etc and I I found it like okay this job doesn't require any Talent any skill it's always the same thing and I can't do it for 40 years or 50 years and I hated it then I was in the gym and I was Just expecting to find something interesting but one of my friends approached me and said that actually there is something called SEO and because of the O at the end I thought that it is actually drug because Like Oxygen
or something I thought my friend actually became a drug dealer and he is cooking something and suggesting the same thing to me because se you I didn't I never heard it before and I was at the gym and it was actually I was working L During that day I remember that and I just say him let me just finish this set then I will come back to you then I asked him that are you sure that you want to sell the drugs then he asked exp that actually it's not the drug it's actually let's say
search engine optimization and you rank the website you just solve an algorithm you solve a puzzle and that puzzle changes all the time okay that change section actually attracted me because if it always Changing it means that you always have to do the research you always have to think in a critical way and the best part there is even if someone does SEO for 20 years and you just start 6 months ago let's say you can still compete because again I am telling that of course the experience is the most expensive thing when it comes
to the search engine optimization it's not easy to manage these projects until you get to that Point you have to spend years but still if you're a hardworking person who does critical thinking analysis all the time you will always have a Competitive Edge you will always have a superiority and it was the thing that actually attracted me most then I started from actually one let's say white at internship then I accidentally or with the coincidence I started from from the blackhead and the casino section and until to the medic update 1 August 2018 and it
is a date That I never forget because we lost 3,000 websites in a single day it wasn't easy and we have also spent Millions while trying to bring it back we couldn't that's why it is one of the things that actually I'm trying to stay away from things like CTR manipulation fake traffic because it always reminds me something bit in the past but I also know a few people who does these things with different type of combinations to make it click make it trigger the only Thing is that until we try to do that trigger
we lost Millions yeah so this is a story of actually how I started to read patterns and how I started to explore these ideas from Google Engineers designers then I started to create a terminology terminology became methodology then methodology created case studies case study created the communities and then we came here like a Godfather of the topical Authority we can't Tell it's funny that you say that SEO is like a or you thought it was a drug because now I feel like I speak to so many seos and the reason why they do SEO is
because it's a everchanging algorithm they're trying to crack the algorithm to get to the top of Google so they're addicted to SEO and it in a weird way it kind of seems like a I I suppose a much healthier drug right yeah it's always keeps your brain sharp actually and sometimes I just do SE for like an Exercise actually like to keep myself sharp rather than just money or business you enjoy it after a point it's like playing with a machine all the time and if you if you love actually I believe the machines or
mechanical things you will love SEO too there are lots of mechanical Dynamics in the search engine result Pages yeah definitely so how are you how are you finding the traveling like obviously you're speaking at a lot of Conferences the reason why Cory's laughing at that question is because we were downstairs waiting for the podcast should do to get set up and he obviously gave his answer then um it'll be interesting to see if it's the same answer that he gives on the podcast yeah the most honest podcast yeah so to be honest I Love Actually
you being united with the Su communities around the world from Thailand Vietnam or to the Dubai as here or Estonia po Poland and Bulgaria Hungary Etc but at the same time it is very tiring and it should be con considered like a second job yeah in my situation I had a huge motivation to do these speeches and writing these case studies before one of them is I just wanted to change the industry in my way and I wanted to prove people that there is another way and you can also standardize SE a little bit at
least and you can have let's say well detailed Concepts and you can connect These Concepts to each other to form a let's say a pattern to understand the search engine optimization in more scientific way like an academic and I believe since we came to like 15,000 people in our communities we achieved that purpose and lately since I see this achievement I started to see this traveling and going to the other speeches just for helping the organizers it is a bit like time suicide after a point I can tell it honestly but at the Same time
I am I feel like I am still helping people and I I know that I'm helping also the uh friends as well to organize their events so I don't have a regret there but I believe 2024 will be the last for these travel uh Sprints and I believe this year we will do the holistic SEO Summit in Istanbul or maybe kushad we are trying to decide that then I guess I won't be going to any other SEO events that much to be honest I can just come if you are attending with James Carl and others
then we can have some crazy [ __ ] going on I know yeah so you heard it here first if you want Corey at your conference book him in for 2024 cuz after that you're done only going to speak to be fair I think it's it's probably good that you are focusing your time elsewhere because a lot of people would think that the conferences you get paid Millions you get played on it you get flown into with a private jet it's not actually the case um yeah I Mean it's it's it's it's definitely a good
time um being able to be around friends and like what you said like guys that have potentially done your course and stuff helping them out but um from a business like a if you were to take your SEO hat off and put business hat on it's probably not the the best time spent um definitely I said it before too being the best SEO in the room is not my main target anymore I just started to think like a more more like a business person In in this year and the next years too I will work
on that because when you do SEO for SEO it becomes your passion and you can't stop doing that but at the same time it is your profession and you need to focus on actually the business purposes more and it's one of the reasons that I am trying to balance let's say the events with my business and lately since we do lots of lots of traveling we need to stop after a point mhm yeah definitely so um recently you Got married congratulations reason also I I'm stopping the events as well that that that was going to
be my next question do you think it's because you've gotten married and potentially you might be looking to have kids that you're going to slow down a little bit or yeah it is when you when when you are married actually you started to you start to of course think about the kids and other type of possibilities then you want to actually prepare yourself Because right now let's say if you didn't automate or scale everything as it should be it means that having the kids is like it will be like business or the kid and I
can't do such a thing to the kid and I will choose the kid then the business will go down and it won't be a pleasant scenario so that's why I need to actually dedicate my time mostly to do my own business so that actually I can have a healthy family and while helping friends from Thailand to the Vietnam to the Hungary to the all other countries is not possible and also I am moving out to the kushad from Istanbul as you know our house is completed but still uh we couldn't manage everything because I needed
to come to the Dubai for instance again MH so pusing that these processes after a point you it makes you to think what I am doing yeah so yeah we we already did lots of things for the community let's focus on ourselves and I suggested the same Actually many consultants around the world as well helping others is nice you should do it of course but after the marriage you will start to change and after that people will understand me better too I believe yeah definitely so um and there's been every time I've done a poll
on my YouTube and I've I've asked like who's everyone's guest that I'm going to have on as a podcast or for the podcast and every time there's been somebody that's either said Matt De or Corey right and yeah but every time when somebody said Corey there's always been a reply saying you need to ask him about topical Maps right and I feel like there's going to be a lot of listeners that are like come on ask him about topical Maps right so and this this was one of the questions that I actually had to think
about for quite a long time because you obviously get a lot of hate which we'll we'll look back around to um Because people say that you over complicate things right um now I don't think that's true because I understand how how your brain processes things that you read every single Google Patent there is um so I think that this question is probably the best way that I can ask you for everybody that's listening so if I'm a three-year-old right explain to me what a topical Authority is first and then we'll come Up with a a
topical map for for for a keyword that I've selected so I pretend I'm a three-year-old what first is this question from James no it's not okay for a three years years old it might be hard but I will try so let's assume that we are trying to rank the cookies I guess three years old kid would love some let's say a sixy old say five or six thanks for making it easier then the cookies is the nice choice okay so let's say we are trying to actually Cluster and classify the cookies according to their tastes
their brands and different type of features of them and then we try to also rank them according to their let's say eating order which cookie would you like to eat first and that cookie actually represents your website or your let's say the article in this case and the kit is the search engine so let let me let me just pause you for a second right so chocolate chip cookie right okay Chocolate chip yeah yeah yeah chip is it's like the most common type of cookie right so it's it's a cookie with chocolate in it dips
maybe yeah chocolate dips yeah yeah yeah so we're on the same page right so you're saying that you need a a separate page potentially for every single type of cookie first of all it is about the queries if the users are not searching for one of these ver you have used three ver there chocolate chocolate deep Cookie yeah basically if one of these ver don't appear inside the queries that word won't be having that much weight or that much effect in this situation you might skip some of the let's say the verse with a function
it might be an adjective it might be another noun and you can try to merge it with another one like let's say chocolate cookies only chocolate cookies and the DI might be one of the bottom heatings there because there is no query for it okay if you Open a new page for every entity and they every type then you will be exploding and bloating your website what we try to do is actually having less pages with more values based on the queries because when you look at the things from the search engines point of view
what they always try to do is answering a search query answering a search term if there is no query it doesn't important that much it's not that much matter for them am I right in Say that let let's say nobody was searching for chocolate chip or chocolate dip cookie right mhm you wouldn't want to do a page on it you would only do like a page on we have seen this situations I remember an old example from uh previous times it was something like taco the differences or similarities between Taco Burrito and a few more
others some of them are not searched in certain days certain ways let's say I assume or and Make things up right now and that assumption might be wrong but let's say the burrito with cheese if burrito is very very similar with another food or another type of let's say WP let's assume and if it has the cheese search engine brings that despite it is not a burrito okay because it's a closed sample there and if there is the query there the cheese the addition of the cheese if it is important that one comes if it
is not important it stays with the Previous one it is a little bit about actually understanding how this query works the cheese is almost like a fire yes correct right okay because according to that they will understand the user in a different point the cheese there as I have given for that three years kit example because every cookie has different type of specs some of them don't have this and some others have another one cheese if it is not a attribute for Teo I'm not an expert for Mexican food I'm just making an example here
if it doesn't belong here and if it is an important term in the query they will look another entity that can have the che is if it is too similar to the this fot which is TECO then they will bring that one mhm So based on this actually according to the most important word in the query according to the user's preferences these entities will be switching each other that's why usually I am telling that creating a Topical map is not like creating list of Concepts or list of phrases or list of keywords you need to
understand how the search engine would present these or how they would be connected to each other okay so a very simple way to understand right we want to rank for chocolate cookies right how would you get the important key wordss that you want on that P first of all okay let's uh do the work together okay first Of all he didn't tell me any question before everything is improvising here so if you have the chocolate cookie the first thing that you need to do is and maybe you can it later let's say this is chocolate
this is Cookie here yeah and the first thing that you need to do is inserting some vers between this let's say I don't know cooked chocolate or let's say sweet chocolate or different type of vers can come here different type of wordss can come between others Can come to the end for instance to the end you can bring recipe you can bring Brands manufacturers effects or side effects or you can bring the word is here then you can ask it is healthy all these combinations you have to take then all these combinations one by one
with different probabilities they will start to be distributed to the queries and let's say queries are represented by this wall every combination of words that can be created from the phrases That you have given will be matched to the queries or the Search terms on the wall these possibilities these possibilities will be ordered according to the possible search intents if a user want to cook this thing the recipe will be heavier and recipe related Ser features will be coming there or if a user just wants to buy this specific cookie from a market or from
somewhere then the let's say the local map pack will be coming there but Usually these possibilities changes based on the user clusters if for instance it might be changing from Mount to mon or even morning to the night these probable probabilities always forces us to add every context to our page if I'm a recipe website I will go with the recipe but sometimes I also tell this to the clients to rank for this query for instance this is the heaviest context and it might be let's say the local context but you are a Recipe website
that's why I'm telling that let's catch the search intent at the top and in the middle section let's connect the page to the our sales at the top I can go with restaurants markets or manufacturers or whatever the query actually is mainly about in the middle section I can bring it to my brand or my own recipes for instance this way I can satisfy certain amount of users with my own website plus I can satisfy the users who are not interested in me as well one Point there is Google has to connect and gather everyone
to the same search engine result page and I am creating a cation of it with a proper order according to all these possibilities so that's when you start talking about micro and macro content yes okay definitely main content supplementary content macro context micro context according to these possibilities we order them and according to the what we do how we make money we start to create Other supporting Pages if we are about let's say a gtin website I will go with glutenfree cookies if I'm a website for celiac disease for instance I will directly put glutin
free cookie recipes there and I will put directly celiac disease symptoms celiac related think researches there as internal links if I'm at just a recipe website for instance I will go for other let's say the recipes if I'm a Parenthood website I will go for cookies for kids yeah According to what I do I catch the query with the context I create enough level of content to rank there then I connect it to myself from different other areas the important thing here is usually people don't check other websites that much they check just the three
top ranking web pages from that query and then they create that page then they check another query and three another top ranking one there another three another three usually these other trees Are not aligning with each other that much too and most of the time for our topic we get all the ranking maybe 600 domains we analyze them and then we try to understand how Google actually classifi these websites and which one of them is appearing in the Google discover and which one for instance doesn't appear because the the one that appear in the Google
discover has more relevance to the specific topic M then we start to get its let's say unique Information more by even making it richer to the our Sal because we to be able to be a topical Authority you need to push another website from outside of that state to be able to do that one by one you need to eliminate all these competitors it looks like a very whad term I know it but at the same time you are actually eating other websites while doing test yeah the other if you are the authority there the
other one won't be that much Authority anymore yeah an Interesting point that you just made is you give more weight to a website that's ranking for a certain keyword than Google discover um So for anybody that doesn't know that if you are doing like any form of topical or keyword research try to put a little bit more weight on websites that are actually doing um yeah because Google discover is query list search which means that there is no query there no one searches something Google discover Google suggests it to You and usually what Google discover
system is doing is they just order the topics they order the websites they match topic to the website and most of the time entertaining interesting entities are ranking better in one of the case studies subract that money I explained it for instance we got to to discover traffic in five months from zero and it's actually an interesting point because most websites brand new websites They don't appear on Google discover and Google news that that fast we did it and all the web pages that get traffic from the Google discover they were about politicians or let's
say the investors but it is about persons books podcasts these are fun entities you won't see that much content in Google discover if it is about just I don't know scientific things like botanics yeah or these boring things won't be appearing there because Google would wouldn't suggest it To you Google Discovery is more like like interesting it should be interesting it should be entertaining it should be intriguing triggering you as much as possible and podcast books they do that which means that actually you should check these type of entities or topics more when it comes
to to discover right okay that makes sense so I want to go back to the topical map right okay so let's and correct me if I'm wrong because i' I've been asked this before Um and there's obviously been a lot of websites that have been hit from the alha content update from the core um and what one thing that I have started to recommend is if you want to rank for best running shoes for men let's say okay what people used to do is they would do topical Authority like this they would do a page
on best running shoes for men best running shoes for women best um shoes for running a marathon best shoes for um treadmill etc Etc and they would gain topical Authority like that kind of like a tfidf approach right term frequency and document frequency now your website almost needs to be a knowledge Hub where you almost don't want the the visitor to just click on your affiliate link and leave right which I feel like that's what a lot of the the websites that got hit were doing um so now my recommendation is why aren't why aren't
You talking about the best places to run um why aren't you talking about potentially vitamins that you can take before a marathon why aren't you talking about um how to run faster what what foods is there to run faster it's true so is is this kind of like an approach that you would take when you're looking at be in that way there are there are three points here first of all if you are not a brand if no one searches for you if you don't have any direct traffic Or if you don't have any prominence
on the web if you will be disappearing today from the Ser if no one just wonders what happened it means that you are not that important and you might not be even a real business because of that go Google actually would be let's say less sensitive while actually demoting your website this is one of the things that actually the websites that get hit the second thing is that most affiliate websites especially this is my humble Opinion but I am buying things from web maybe over 10 years I never change my idea even once based on
these Niche websites to even once because I know that they put to the the that best list they put the highest combination to the top that's it if you search for best hostings the hosting a others they are at the top because they give higher commission not because they are really the best I am not telling that they are not the best I didn't check the response Times or other things but I know that they give the highest commission and that's why they are at the top so this creates the problem of sponsorship because there
is a unhidden or non-old sponsorship it's not that different actually to do let's say link schemes at the same time the third thing is that most of these websites they don't give information Beyond common sense even if they write about how to run faster they don't put any let's say Unique info there for instance let's say to run faster you need to exercise three times a week even if they tell it they don't provide any proof any experience or anything there it's just three and website says five and according to whom basically it requires a
real expertise and also the per a perspective and experience in the subject the last part there you are right actually they need to focus on also explaining and defining everything that is appearing in these Phrases I'm not telling you to go to the history of shoes or origin of the shoes of course but if someone buys these things let's say for tracking you can actually give also the places to use the specific shoes as well if there is a specific material in the shoes you should be able to explain it one of the pages too
in one case that it was a bookstore and I published it uh like two years ago I believe and it it became the fifth biggest e-commerce website in Turkey during this approach we in the product pages we were you of course we always and only focus on the commercial section there but we were even given the we giving the materials that we were using in the book cover yeah everything we were giving directly there even we were giving actually meaning of the book cover too we we were also talking about the let's say the refund
policy shipment policy or also we were giving the Alternative approaches to the book we were explaining the product from every angle directly in the product page because the sales page and it worked actually we we fixed lots of things it also helped us to connect every book to an aor aor biography every aor biography is connected to all the poem books novels or different areas we also connect it to the Gen let's say this is a crime novel we also go to the other crime novels and the novelists and again It goes like that and
we also open the pages for important characters in these novels too right because when you rank four a certain type of of entity group from a certain topic search engine starts to pick your expertise and they start to give you more prioritization on the rankings about of two reasons first they are able to trust second cheaper because I don't want to check 5 million different websites for every query I can't do that no one can do that that's Why if you if if a search engine finds a good website about a topic even if it
doesn't have the links they will still actually rank it the links will make it faster more permanent is is certain it's basic math there but at the same time imagine like this there is a website and if search engine ranks it it means that they are satisfying users with a lower cost they wouldn't wait until someone linked them because it might take even two years you know the web no one links Themselves that much naturally so also it's something that I I'm getting angry to the Google whenever they say get your links naturally it doesn't
happen that much okay it's not common for people to link somewhere else that that much actually so since Google knows that they need to wait maybe 2 years maybe 3 years they don't wait they just directly start to test the website and people also ask questions or in different type of ser features if the website passes this Let's say the quality tests after certain type of quality algorithmic updates it increases traffic and with a broadcore algorithm update it just explodes mhm this brings me another Point usually AFF flate marketers especially if a website just wins
a COR update they start to exploit it and the new published content is irrelevant nearly to the old one yeah they just delute the topicality and they decrease the overall quality then they lose the Next core update and they start to complain too so this because because of the so basically I've seen this happen a lot of times when a website W like wins a core algorithm update the website owner gets a little bit more greedy let's say right so let's say that the website initially was only talking about the best hostels in Spain or
the best hotels in Spain right they had every single town and Village in Spain and then they win in a Core algorithm update they maybe get plus 5,000 clicks a day and they're like right okay that's that's good let's start doing Pages for best hotels in Thailand and then let's the next page let's do best hotels in Poland and we're not going to we're not going to do every single town and Village in Poland we're just going to Bas off search volume and then that's when they get hit definitely and this brings me to an
example because if also people take the video back I Just say that when you try to rank for let's say chocolate deep cookies I said that they don't they check the top three rankings only but they don't get the relevances and similarities between these top ranking websites when you go to the top let's say The Villages or attractions for the Thailand the top ranking websites there might be very hugely different than the others yeah and your let's say Source Identity or Google's perception for you might not be Working for other areas and once you go
there you might not see the same Authority effect as well I had the same with one case a holistic Su case that if they search on Google they will find it the owner of the company since he he saw that actually we dominated entire energy industry and electricity he asked for more investment he got maybe two times or three times more investment and he started to write for everything like the credit Finance internet service Providing anything and this is a comparison website basically and he it got hit and I actually told it before before that
hit actually happened but once the money comes in people get let's say greedy and they they don't list on the consultant or the expert that much because until it get hits more money comes so they they don't care that much what what's what's the terminology used um that like I I understand the theory I just don't understand what what the is But when you're comparing your website to let's say just a travel website in Spain what what's that called the the terminal S context will be better there sour Source context the context that you are
ranking is not directly same that context there ranking there if you're a tourism website for Spain and let's say if you're a tourism website for Thailand it seems very similar both are tourism for countries but the Spain tourism and the motivation for going Spain is very Different than Thailand yeah and that difference usually people don't calculate that much one has elephants the other one has something else yeah the the other one has tackles I suppose right Spain I'm sure has lots of things yeah but would you say that if if I was a website let's
say I've I've been I've had a positive ranking state I'm in a positive ranking state after yeah after um a core algorithm update and then I decide to go after Thailand keywords Would you say the source context of my website would then be more so similar to like a Booking.com as opposed to yes it's it you have to have a reason to rank there search engine has to find a usability in your in the website if you are just an affiliate for the tour companies you might not be needed there that much because there are
already websites that satisfy the hotel need rent car rental need and also any other need that you can actually find for Going somewhere and because of these let's say Global websites especially like let's say Trip Advisor they basically get all the tours all the hotels all the roads even attractions even the the possible health related policies in every country they write everything for every country that website actually can work out because they have huge resources they already have thousands of referring domains or referers around the world it's also a Brand and real world business Google
also knows that plus they have millions of review in the website which is another issue because it's also a forum which Google promotes the forums and Trip Advisor already has a forum section with all the comments as well and that's why that website can rank but when it comes to the local websites we had one actually like that dear Harry Henry has it from Greece rental center cre.com it should be and I I believe it will be Okay to give the website name and we work like two three years during the Summers usually usually what
we see there as well and he can verify I believe during the winter for instance the website ranks lower but Trip Advisor still stays at the top because Trip Advisor ranks for let's say the all the gree and also all the islands and all the countries and popularity and traffic is also ranking increasing effect if Your website gets traffic from somewhere other web pages will be ranking higher too this brings me to do actually the concept of trending note which means I am creating some pages just for exploiting some Trends mhm in one of the
websites during the Ukrainian War we rank higher because we had lots of articles for Ukraine we didn't write them for war but people wonder things about Ukraine they read lots of things about Ukraine and other Pages rank also Higher because of that for instance Trip Advisor since they rank for all countries multiple languages they will always have a superior hand against you if you go against these Global websites you have to go very much deeper for certain localities if you don't have some of the functions that they have your job will be even harder in
this case this is one of the reasons that after the helpful content update and latest core updates only forums and Major global companies rank it's a little bit like that because others are not that much business to be honest they just pump up the content all the time I I I said this after the The Helpful content update everybody was complaining saying that why is redit or quora um ranking a me and I said guys what happens if when say for example Corey replies to a Reddit form what happens after I reply to your Reddit
form you get an email or a notification on your Phone and then you revisit that page so there's more dwell time on the page there's all there's all of these factors everybody just thinks that the the the algorithm is just content and links they think like C citizens who complains to a King to be honest but Google is not like that Google's job is just satisfying the user and if it happens with Reddit they will do that one more point about Reddit by the way maybe it will be coming out in the next years but
I assume Reddit Will be going into the IPO which means they it will be a public company it will be selling I guess the 10% of their shares and I feel like Google is one of the secret investors there because if they invest in Google oh sorry if Google invest in Reddit and if Reddit goes to the higher in terms of traffic and then if it goes to the public to sales it it means Google's money becomes also more plus redit is also a search engine already yeah so it's one of the theories From me
I don't know whether it is real do you think that it was a strategical purchase from Google because openai gets a lot of data from Reddit and they could potentially say right no more no more given data to it is a good point because Google already announced that they have access to the data API of Reddit it is one of the huge advantages because when Google comes to your website they actually make a request to your server then take they Take all the resources then they render your page then they check it etc for Reddit
they don't go to the website at all yeah they have a data API for every user for every comment for every subredit they get everything with a Fire H baso like in Twitter to and it means that actually Reddit already has given them the data API the second thing is that I said it in one of my blue head case studies uh there is a subreddit L5 which means explain it to me like I am Five and meta was using this subreddit for training its own language model and I assume that Google is trying to
imitate conversations in Reddit like humans so that it can actually make its own chat systems or let's say generators or generative AI systems way much better too and it works everywh because if you own the reddit reddit becomes more valuable and you send the traffic to the Reddit and Reddit has humans which you again avoid the AI traffic as well or The content and at the same time you have all the training resources and others might not have it after a point yeah it's it's a very good point it would be a very good strategical
move for them actually I don't have the proof but I will do that to be honest if I were them yeah so um move moving on to your agency um I really like the name holistic right why why did you name it holistic SEO because the I loveo search engine optimization and one thing that I Didn't like when I was working in one of the agencies in the past they were charging for everything and the purpose wasn't getting success at all I am not telling that agencies shouldn't charge they should charge high as spal I
defending that but the one thing there is whenever there is something extra they are charging it again imagine that I am a consultant in an agency and I want to make the project successful and a director comes to and tell that you Can't give this to this client even if it works because we don't charge for it m technically he's right I understand him today for three years I didn't understand him today I understand him better but then I find this let's say term a little bit it was already out out there but I just
made it something like this we do holistic SEO and you are just our customer and we do anything for making your website and Business Online successfully I we don't discriminate or Put different verticals there to just play with the packages or different type of things every website has a different scenario according to you we tailor the solution and we start doing that it helped us to get clients from news industry just for discover or again the Affiliates and from Costa Rica to Puerto Rica to the Israel or to the even Japan from everywhere for every
industry we have clients today thanks to this approach mainly and since I love SEO It's a hard for me to focus on a single section of it because then you can't learn the other areas that much but from renting a car to do let's say just personal lawn uh or glasses for instance or I heal at the same time or some other Industries we always have something to focus on and it makes me happier actually it's like being a Commando for SEO basically yeah definitely so um this this is probably the the biggest question I've
got for you okay how do You deal with the hate it's not that hard actually because when you get a huge success it's normal it will happen and after a point also I understand them too because I believe there are two three reasons there one is the link building agencies see me as a threat despite I say always that I am not against link building I also do that even in my saon speech this was the first sentence still people tell tell me that do you also do off page here and if I do that
I tell it already explicit but you don't read the case stud that's why you don't know it so I do it and the second reason I believe there is many other or some other SEO influencers and I don't Define myself as an influencer I'm just a guy who makes research and writes that's it and it's up to you whether you will get the influence from me or not and I don't care about it and the second reason I believe people try to explain things in a very simple way But they don't accept that actually search
Eng optimization is pretty complex it's not like a if it will be easy you you will be able to teach it anyone it's not like put this keyword to title to URL and to your first paragraph and then put some internal links here some images then structure thata and you will rank then everybody will rank but it means that there is a subtle point there that that helps sech CH makes a differentiation by configuring the Algorithm and I know that they have over 70,000 patents and only a small portion is actually for search and they
pay lots of money for these things if I'm paying $2 million for filing an invention as a patent I will use it and when I look at the patents it's not that easy it's it's very complicated files actually and I believe this is the one of the reasons they sometimes they don't read and they just assume that we makes things complicated but in fact we actually make It way much more simplified because no one else will be able to explain these concepts by creating these subconcepts connecting them to each other and creating a pipeline MH
and repeating the process with over 100 websites by giving website names writing everything in a detailed way over half million words in 3 years it's not an easy process I know but we did it eventually it's one of the reasons actually I want to focus on business more too because how many other Case is I shall write so after app point you just don't care and at the same time the the loving side just makes it disappear I hate showing cases like this because there's always somebody that says well you could have done this well
why didn't you do that well it's it's it's only 50 clicks a day why is it not 65 yeah the the worst part is I remember that once I have written a research it was about authorship yeah I waited six Months to publish it because I knew that the time wasn't right this is one of the reasons that I waited for my course 2 years because if I would my course two and a half or nearly 3 years ago no one would get anything and everything would be very much worse that's why I published many
case study so that they can get a preparation for it and the industry also became more a bit let's say the semantic focused large language models came and they started to get Things better in a similar way in a similar way for that point of view too like well maybe this well maybe that once I have written a research for algorithmic authorship and overall authorship identity one of the many major Publications they said that well this is just a research but let's not publish it I I remember that seven months later they have written the
same thing nearly just for ranking purposes because people even if I tell or don't If I don't tell they realize that outour matter and they started to focus on as James says to aor transparency yeah at the same time and when I published at that research remember that some SAS SEO tools they say that I say this for all the cheap seats there is no such a thing like outdor prominence aor rank whatever Etc then after one year the same people they all were actually sharing the Google googlers words and the updates all about these
things and they were Examining just the Ser features if they would read the patterns in the first place you would get that actually they were coming through that point anyway yeah so it's one of the reasons for these rea the negative reactions you say something they don't believe then Google does it then everyone says it suddenly it's one of the Dynamics in the industry to be honest yeah it's um we we've tested a lot with with offer Rank and offer transparency it is definitely a Thing we've tested it on a much smaller scale um where
all we've done is we've just changed the offer from John Doe for example just a madeup name to for example James dly which is like the the SEO expert and stuff like that the the the page ranks and then as soon as we switch it back it it D ranks the page so there is definitely a thing there's also um we've recovered websites from uh offer transparency as well in like the finance industry news industry and stuff Like that so it is definitely a thing so when people say e believe me I have written that
research two and a half year ago yeah some many people found it actually inspirational and liked it but some people also it was even Al in all these news roundups from different organizations they said it is a discussion googlers stayed silent and this person from this company says that it's not working another funny thing is By the way in the third paragraph I remember I was saying that look I am using this specific term not as in the patents we redefine it with the current situation yeah then the one person who were criticizing he was
directly telling that this term is from this patent and Google say that before it's not working if he would be reading just three paragraphs he would get that okay but people just look at the heating you know like and The image then they it it's they they don't read I I find SEO industry interesting because of that there are many treasure seeking people they spend lots of money and time for Finding the Treasure but they don't read the reason that I am reading I lost 3,000 websites in a single day once it happens you start
reading actually yeah and I just the same everyone so shall you not lose these wees one thing that so I've got some Quick fire questions but before we move on to those I've got um another way of thinking about SEO um and what a lot of like uh websites that were hit by The Helpful content update I would consider a lot of the websites as what people would call as doorway pages right so you search best running showes you click the affiliate link think you never come go back right it is have you ever heard
of the Wikipedia game Wikipedia game yeah no it's a really fun game and I can see You doing this after this podcast right so you can go to like let's say the Wikipedia page for Justin Bieber the singer right and with the internal links you can end up on the page for Spain because they they are a massive knowledge Hub what however many pages eventually all of them connected exactly right my theory is now that you need to be the knowledge hub for your industry so if you're wan to if you if you want to
talk about cookies you need to be Talking about can pregnant women eat cookies what what temperature can you bake cookies um all of these pages will help you support for for for your articles and that that's what I'm trying to explain now and very similar to yourself I get a lot of hate for it it's not a surprising Thing Once I remember that actually I was but this was like four and a half years ago and and also Bill de Bill slowski he was in that discussion too And one of the reasons by the way
I I published most of these case is that after bill passed away I felt like he was writing since 2006 and I felt like all of them were gone because no one reads yeah no one reads and then I I felt like okay he has created all these knowledge no one reads and it will be forgotten then actually I just wanted to take it way further points in a practical way simpler way so that many people also can do that and today we We're actually 15,000 people many people learn and do these things and I'm
very happy to see that from I gaming especially lately we have lots of Attraction too if I gaming since I am coming from there if they are doing something it means that lots of things are changing because if let's say looking at to the Moon is ranking you I entire I gaming industry will be doing it like 724 so if they're coming today to do this Point of view it means that it is working it makes me happy and in on that discussion with the bill someone told Bill that okay so I have a website
for movies do I have to win wasar Oscar so bill was laughing at the question of course but you don't have to win the Oscar to rank a website okay but at least try to be sincere about what you do and you right most websites are just doorway pages I see the same also between aggregators mhm or comparison Websites and the service provider and this is always a thing if you check certain type of search engine result Pages you will always see that sometimes comparison websites rank higher sometimes let's say the banks or actual service
provider ranks higher too and this changes from update to update some for instance in Google patterns they call it composite search score which means that instead of individually scoring every website they create a Compon or composition from the websites and they Secore each composition with each other if aggregators makes more sense they rank aggregators higher that PN was just explaining that this is what already happening if after every core update we see certain websites rank higher like forums this time yeah for instance and and also many people don't get the this situation too let's say
your website loses rankings it doesn't mean that you are doing something wrong Just Google prefers different type of websites in this situation for it's also one of the things that people should be realizing well that's that's the biggest thing that I always recommend to someone after a core algorithm update I say to them go and look at what is ranking now and make certain that the intent is is similar to what what you're doing so for example if you have a numbered list and everybody else has a HTML table you're probably going to want to
switch to over To HTML table or for example if there's infographics or whatever else especially for let's say application queries usually they require a form or input area for instance and this is what we tell in terms of source context what you do determines who you are and based on that your rankings change as well you you can't rank for credit application without having an application form is pretty obvious for the search engine and they will try to prevent you from Ranking there as well and if you have an application form if you are not
the application Source still there is no reason to rank there because people need to go another website to apply basically you are just a bridge yeah definitely so I have three quickfire questions okay from James no not from James so quick fire they need to be quick um you can't go on a Cory 45 minute talk right So what is a triple semantic predicate let's say subject predicate object it means that we remove any unnecessary word and we directly get the essence of these sentences like Tom Han acted in green Miles okay and in this
case you have just three components there predicate subject and object right perfect so then what is Source context I said it actually already it basically determines your connection with the Query as a service provider as an aggregator as an affiliate as a bank or as a car rental service or whatever but who you are determines whether you will be ranking or not if you don't have a reason to rank search engine wouldn't rank thank you yeah I think I think Source context is super important primary focus Google already tells it on the helpful content update
too the website should have a primary focus and then the last one is let me just pick a Random one query expansion oh nice one sometimes is also called query augmentation too the query that is written to the search bar is not the same with the search engine preference which means if you might be searching for the let's say the best cookie search engine might make this query to the buy best cookie the buy addition there means the expansion because search engine turns the query into the form that they understand actually this is one of
the Reasons because problems actually because people try to rank for two word queries but the processed version of that query is not two words you should be able to see the non-written words there if you are able to calculate that non-written versions as search engine is doing then you will rank higher right okay and then the last question I have for you is what's one failure you have had this year it could be anything it could be website related travel related Conference related anything I believe during the especially the Cino days we we have focused
on crypto a lot during the days because since since money came from somewhere we needed to put it somewhere crypto was a SM artist during that time we have focused so much to the crypto we neglected the pbn and we lost the pbn after that point it is one of the failures because I could stay in casin know still I regret that actually I left The area probably in the next year I will return as well good stuff so where can people find your Cory I believe they don't need to search actually they just find
eventually after this Point holistic SEO holistic SEO website you can come to our Facebook group you can join our news newsletter Discord Channel Reddit subreddit we have telegram Channel and you can subscribe from YouTube or you can follow on Twitter LinkedIn anywhere that you want we are Everywhere nearly perfect thanks for joining me Cory thank you thank you for having me thanks everybody for watching I'm hoping that everybody has been able to take some actionable tips I feel like you've shared quite a lot to be fair so thank you so much thanks
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