Presidential Debate: What Just Happened?

Good afternoon uh I'm Bob shum the director of the center for the political future at USC dorai with me is the co-director of the center uh and my longtime political adversary and good personal friend Mike Murphy uh we're here to talk about what happened in that debate the other night uh we'll talk for a while and then we're going to open it up to your questions if you have a question just please put it in the chat And that way we'll be able to get to it uh I'll give you my initial reaction which is

a lot of presidential debates don't matter that much uh By almost all of the polling measures John KY won all three debates against George W bush and he narrowly lost the election uh but sometimes debates in my view critically do matter uh in 1960 I think it was a itial for Kennedy in that first debate on National Security to cross the threshold as Someone who could handle uh these big issues of foreign policy when we were at the height of nuclear tensions in the Cold War uh in 1980 I think Ronald Reagan uh gave an

extraordinary performance uh in that debate with Jimmy Carter uh which he obviously had carefully prepared for uh Camala Harris prepared for this that was obvious she was I thought masterful Mike might use a less praiseworthy adjective uh she baited Donald Trump continually he not Only took the bait he eagerly seemed to seek it out uh I don't know that it will be as consequential as 60 was as 80 was those th those those first debates uh but it has already had some major impacts she's raised a lot more money she now has a cash advantage

over Trump of over a hundred million uh there are two polls out today uh that one from morning consult which is used by political one from ipsos uh showing her now five points Ahead uh she won't take anything for granted that campaign won't take anything for granted they'll keep fighting but all you have to do to know who won the debate is a look at the fact that Trump refuses to debate again uh and B look at the reaction of the people who normally would be saying he won the debate initially they were all disappointed

they said they were disappointed Lindsey Graham said he was disappointed uh the fox commentators Said they were disappointed but now what they're doing is they're blaming ABC they're blaming the moderators they're blaming anybody and everybody except Donald Trump uh so that that's my reaction to this I think it was it was a great launching pad or a second launching pad for Harris so far she hasn't flubbed any of the big things that she needs to do in this campaign to win Mike oh well hello Bob and welcome to everybody joining us no I thought she

Unquestionably won the debate or I might say she baited Donald Trump into magnificently losing it it was Trump's worst debate ever he did get himself real damage and you could see that in the dial groups and now some of the polling though I think we need a little more time for it really to soak in but there's no question she had a good debate and Trump had a horrible one now will winning the debate mean winning the election I think that's going to be the Interesting question I think it moved her forward she she had

a lot to win or lose at this debate she enters it quite undefined she didn't go through the primaries uh she was anointed when Joe Biden stepped aside and swept in with a huge wave of euphoria by democrats who were down in the dumps and then got excited she had a good convention uh she did a good uh acceptance speech to the nomination and because the third of the country don't really know who she is she Could have let Donald Trump Define her instead she didn't but I'm not sure this debate did all no let

let me just say if I were at the Harris campaign I'd be very happy the tricks worked all the SAR worked hey they H you at Wharton you know where your dad bought you in so he of course exploded you know eating the pets being eaten all all the madness was on full display it was a real lesson in the difference between prepping for a debate and just showing up so on every Dimension I think the Harris people are and should be happy that said I'm not sure she did everything she could do to move

the audience at home we know for a lot of the from a lot of the data that most voters particularly soft or undecided voters of which there aren't that many and not that many states but they don't like the squabbling uh when they go back and forth and all that they want to know About her because they don't know her they want to know what they're going to get from her in the future because they're not sure so she had moments where she addressed that pretty well all the Turn the Page stuff but I think

she could have talked to the folks at home a little more I think what happened was the baiting tricks were working so well on Trump and he was doing himself so much damage she thought this is working so I'm just going to keep on him and see Just how much I can make his head explode and for that she got a well-deserved win a solid win an undeniable win um but optimally to connect it home the way she needs to to land this thing uh I thought it wasn't bad but I thought she left some

opportunity on the table so for that reason I'll give her an A minus uh when I think she could have in this one got the rarest of all things in A+ but that's a sidebar criticism about lost Opportunity and opportunity costs fundamentally Trump had a terrible debate which will hurt him and now for the next 10 days the The Narrative of the campaign will be she's got momentum she's doing well and Trump is a crazy old man so we're going to hear a lot about which Trump advisor is getting fired Trump will go out and

attack and a louder message he's going to feel these polls he's going to react to them we're going to have a bit of a trump meltdown And that's good for her in two ways one it takes the spotlight off her and puts it on him which is always good for her whoever the election is a negative referendum on uh is going to do well and second we are close enough now to election day that when eight or 10 days are burned up on who's Trump going to fire and how crazy is he that is a

huge win for her because every day where nothing changes starting today is a better day for her than it is for him Time is the most finite resource now and it's not going to be about the bad economy and how she's part of the Biden team it's not going to be about the border is going to be about the suitability of Donald Trump and it represents more I believe more than 20% of the days left before absentee balance start moving in many states so uh they have a lot to be happy with over the campaign

but I believe they still have some work to do to Define her to the American people through what they will get from her I think that's still an unanswered question which is an opportunity for Trump yeah I think the Harris campaign would agree with that and I think they will use their financial advantage which I predict will only grow to continually introduce and reintroduce her uh she's got a new spot today on Reproductive Rights she'll have another spot on the economy Uh by the way I'm I'm uh I've got my coffee cup that saysi love

my dog uh I've got an in honor of Trump's uh comments that people were Haitian migrants were eating dogs and cats and people's pets in Springfield Ohio uh I found that repellent because I think it's a racist dog whistle uh but Mike how could he possibly get into saying something like that I mean it's just not true well I think somebody he saw it on television Somewhere and he decided to amplify it you know he he's not the king of facts he just saw an opportunity and you know I think Trump's weakness is he can

construct in his head an alternate reality they stole the election from me the mobs of haian immigrants are are eating dogs there's a feast going on in Springfield Ohio even the Republican Governor came out and said you know that's crazy so Once he gets it in his head and he believes it he goes out and pounds it and he does believe it that's that's kind of his Madness that equips him for this so I think he thought well I'll make this famous it's terrible for her because she's the borders are you know the the campaign

that a smart Trump campaign and there are people there who know what to do but he doesn't listen to his own people he's his own thing uh they they think this campaign in their Right should be a negative referendum on the economy inflation and the border so this was a way I think they thought to widen and illustrate the Border in kind of a sensationalist way the problem is it's not true and so the whole debate becomes Trump's Madness and veracity rather than the border is out of control so you know I tweeted in the

middle of the debate I think I just saw Chris laav and um um Susie WS Susie Susie WS I was Blanking on her first name uh putting on fake mustaches and sneaking out of the back of the building with plane tickets to Paraguay because it couldn't have been a worse night for them and they know what they needed and they know they didn't get it but I I you know I I want to stay on this for one minute because I've been as you have Mike involved in an awful lot of these debate preps over

the years I don't think Trump prepar I think what they call policy time Where they sit around the table and just chat is absolutely the wrong way to prepare for a presidential debate I think he was probably told not to say some of the things that he said he was certainly told to give a more cohering answer on abortion than the one he gave which left people with the impression that he's proud of being the father of taking away Reproductive Rights from women so I think I mean am I'm wrong are Susie Wilds Chris levita

and all the Rest of them afraid to tell them you can't say that you need to say this I don't know I think they might have a little but he doesn't respect them or listen to them he layered them of Corey leowski who was a lunatic and Cory's thing is let Trump be Trump everything he says is great he probably high-fived him yesterday because he's trying to tank the other two and I I think one or two of them will be gone by the end of the week if you're chis why are you Staying for

this well he flew to the debate with Laura lomer yeah social media presence who I inarguably I think engages in racist appeals all the time and may very well have told them look you got to use that Springfield Ohio thing but if you look down the I think Elon was into it too because Elon is the chief proponent of the the immigration the open border all the allegations will culturally change The country and turn us into a socialist Wasteland uh so I think I think there's a little bit of the the Elon thumb on this

scale too for for that kind of that kind he's I guess he's right about a lot of that but not the Socialist Wasteland because he's an immigrant and he has changed the culture of the country I would argue for the worse uh so Trump's not going to debate again what does that tell us well you know obviously whoever wants A debate is losing and if Trump 10 days from now has not had any forward progress and has not been able to reframe the debate a little bit more about her weaknesses which do exist um then

then he might want to debate you know Trump is transactional so I I never take anything Trump says written in ink always in pencil uh but right now I my guess is the rage just turned internal and there'll be a couple days of that then there'll be a new plan um and they They're going to try to get it back to the economy and um you know the uh the Border stuff but if they don't you say he's gonna suddenly pop up on social media and say I'm ready for a debate anytime any place anywhere

Challenger because he'll he'll have some new dog eating thing in a week that might have more veracity in it um because you know there is economic pain out there I just I follow the automotive industry because I'm involved in the electrification world and the average there's this big problem right now in car sales with sticker shock people who bought a car five years ago and think all right I was able to do it for $499 a month they're coming in it seems $699 750 and it's it there's a sales are going down so the the

the bite of inflation is still in people's everyday lives and if they can connect her which is tricky because you know she was Criticized as being kind of a weak secondary even failing vice president so nobody thought she was the PowerHouse Dick Cheney Mastermind of the White House so now it's kind of hard to pin the economy on her because she was so much in the in the far Shadows um but if they can find a way to do that and get the economic pain that's out there and is a huge deal in voter land

you know Trump may have time for one more bite at the Apple but the clock Is running out and right now talking about dog cannibals yeah I I think that as I said earlier they're going to use that financial advantage and I think we're going to see a very big wave of advertising on the economy coming from uh the Harris campaign uh I also thought she handled uh the whole question of Joe Biden very well he kept attacking Joe Biden that's who he wanted to run against as if he was running against Him at one

point she said I'm not Joe Biden and she did it in a way that was not disrespectful to the president it was it was very smart uh and I think people are beginning to look at her as her own person uh she's having a rally in North Carolina today a State where polling suddenly shows that it's a tossup and where it's now been moved by most of the commentators to being a tossup state when four or five months ago people said hopeless Trump's going To win it uh and so you believe it though do you

think she in the end will carry North Carolina I don't know I think it's possible here's here's what I think I you know look Reagan converted what would have been probably a narrow two or three point win fairly narrow in the Electoral College into a landslide I mean he won by 10 points in a three-way race because we forget that John Anderson the Republican congressman from Illinois was running as an independent uh in the world we live in which is so polarized compared to 1980 right I don't I think a landslide is more like six

or seven points if you win by six or seven points and you manage to get 306 to 325 electoral votes that's about as good as you can probably do in today's environment I think it's possible that that could happen for her I think it's possible she could run the table in in uh those uh Battleground States maybe Not carrying all of them but carrying most but so much depends on where we go from here on whether or not there are external events that help shape this election uh on how he behaves because I think suddenly

his behavior has become and you were talking about this earlier his behavior has become a central issue not just in that debate but it's now becoming a central issue in this campaign I mean today he announced that he's establishing his own Cryptocurrency that would not have been what I would have advised him to do I'm gonna take all my stock winnings truth social where I'm down 97% I'm Gonna Roll them into the Trump cryptocoin but you're right look it's becoming a referendum on him that's a winning race for her so she can keep it that

way and rag the puck as we say in Canadian politics and beat the clock here uh I think there's a you know I think let's put it this way she is better off now Than she was 72 hours ago and a of that is because of him she did well but he had his own Biden debate he got unmasked Joe Biden was unmasked as being at an age where it's hard for him to effectively serve serve as president particularly into the next two years he got it unmasked as being a bit unfit more than a

bit in my view uh and so it's gonna I think have a pretty devastating effect on them unless he can somehow regain agenda control here which Will require a disciplined message off repeated and that's something he's never shown much ability to do the Donald Trump in 2016 who was a better candidate than this Donald Trump might have been able to wrestle it back but I think uh I think he's going to show up with some guy saying a Haitian Ain my schneer you know they're going to find their Joe the Plumber guy and that won't

do it you know it's funny because everybody said He lost all three debates to Hillary Clinton and I suspect if you take the debates as a whole that's true but the first half hour of that first debate he relentlessly focused on foreign tray on NAFTA uh pinned her for for for for NAFTA she said you know my Bill Clinton did that not me well I don't think people bought that and then got her on the trans specific partnership which at that point she was against but she had called the gold standard of trade Agreements uh

I don't think that Donald Trump is is here anymore yeah no I agree I don't think the toolbox is the same now I I am you win the debate on two levels I generally think whoever wins the campaign in the end won the debate just based on results but there is kind of the chattering class which interprets it and that can drive some of the polling and I think she overwhelmingly in this case won that debate the debate at home I think she won too the dials Say that the early polling says that but I'm

not sure it was quite as much of a breakthrough at home we'll find out we're really going to know where this race is another four or five days oh my gut is she's done pretty well but that's where that lack of connection and she made one error I should just quickly talk I there's so much laudatory coverage I I I think it's overblown and it's whiny and it's all they've got but the follow-up questions to her could Have been tougher particularly on her fracking answer where for some reason she has a terrible answer she acts

like her position in 2019 doesn't exist she says in 2020 I made it clear I'm poor fracking well that is true but it was one tortured line in the debate she's never done the smart answer which is as vice president you get to learn a lot you see everything you take a wider View and the I've learned more facts and my position is evolved to what I think is Right for the country in said she did the trumpan thing with by repeating a falsehood 10 times you know and it it it undercuts her CU she's

the anti-trump so I'm hearing from some people out in the field that it was a win for her but it wasn't the slam that the pundit World which you know grades it on things that are a little different than annual vote regular voters uh but you know again it's quibbling because fundamental Mally her campaign is in stronger situation Now than it was before in a meaningful way yeah she's a little bit on fracking in the position that George HW Bush was on the Reagan tax cuts in 1980 which he had called voodoo economics and then

once he got picked he had to be all for them voters didn't seem to care that much about it the real the reason I think it gets so much attention here is because Pennsylvania is potentially such a critical State yeah in the outcome of the election and she's struggling a bit There you know I think there's a scenario where she loses Pennsylvania but wins Nevada and Georgia and makes it up um you know we're going to see we might be in a different world here if Trump keeps melting down in another week but would you

have if you were prepping or you've done a lot of debate prep you would have had a better answer in fracking on deny the old position because I think it makes her a politician or am I Rock I to I mean I think you might be somewhat wrong in the sense that I think this may not be a voting issue just as Bush's flipflop on the Reagan tax cuts was not a voting issue uh but I she could have said look I ran with Joe Biden in 2020 and he was in favor of fracking and

we sat down and talked about it and then as vice president and go into your answer as I saw more and more what was going on and the need we have for energy Independence the need that Europe has not to be dependent on Russian natural gas uh that that's why I have the position I have today yeah and you know I think if you're gonna be president of the United States you have to respond to the facts on the ground right well that's the Churchill line when the facts change uh my view can change yeah

you can't just take a precooked position but I just didn't like denying the obvious fact that she was against Frankie it's Okay admit you evolve doing otherwise turns you into a slippery politician you start sounding like Trump and that is not good for her but it was only one big speed bump on otherwise great debate yeah I thought yeah I would say a speed bump on a highway that she really went down at a very fast rate and kind of left him on the side of the road well I think he actively steered himself off

the cliff I mean she triggered him to commit debate Suicide that that is what I view I I believe happen uh so I I talked earlier about the prep uh if he does another debate do you think he can prep differently no no you think can be different the biggest myth is that anybody manages them it was frustrating to me to hear about his Savvy campaign team during the primaries and I said at the time many times no no he he's not in any danger he's cruising along in a Republican primary of no Serious opposition

so there's no there's no management here the management question will be when when the the the stuff hits the fan and they've got to control his activity and can they do that and we now know nope they can there're two we've had two Trump eruptions after he was shot there was a moment of sympathy for him in the country so they said all right let's make the acceptance speech the new Kinder gentler wider less costic Trump And they wrote that speech and he started giving it and it wasn't bad but he felt the hall and

nobody was breaking up the furniture screaming Locker up or anything and in his own weirdness he decided Well I'm failing so screw this and he went off the prompter and and and did his routine which strategically was a step backward not forward the routine was good so there was a great opportunity to do the smart thing instead he did the Instinctual baral Trump animal thing and at the debate this he didn't prep he probably sat around and yes men threw a few questions at him and he gave a crappy answer and they said great you're

really going to get her and Laura Lumis said make sure you bring up the pet thing um you know these clowns around him so I there was smart advice for him to access but he's not interested in that he just goes by Instinct there was no prep this thing I this will be shown To candidates for decades of prep versus no prep in a in a high stakes debate yeah I I want to ask one other question in then get to audience questions because we have a lot of them uh what did you think of

the moderators factchecking Trump I thought it was great and I thought there ought to be more of it I think the follow-ups on her could have been tougher I think it's legit to say they were a little tougher on Trump but that's okay with me because Trump's been able to Bluster his way through other debates with not enough I I I didn't think the CNN uh the debate with Biden the followup was very good uh it wasn't terrible I thought Jake had a good ones but um I I I thought they set a new standard

for kind of how to how to deal with these Lawless debates and so I I give David mure uh and and the whole ABC team a a salute yeah the new new thing today is well uh Lindsay the other moderator of The debate she belonged to the same sorority in college that Camala Harris did now they're 13 years apart they went to different colleges there are Republicans as well as Democrats who belong to that sorority do you think all these excuses that Yu would and other people are trying to make for him will have an

impact at this point no it's just a narcotic for the base that has to have something to say and we have something that has a little truth to it Like they were tougher on follow-ups with Trump you then can hang a conspiracy on that for the Trump believers who know he had a bad night and need some need need a unified field Theory to explain it so they can hang in there but in the undecided movable voter space I don't think that has any traction at all yeah I I don't know how many big opportunities

you get in a presidential campaign you're right about the Opportunity that was presented by his convention speech he decided not to take that opportunity if I had been advising him which of course I wouldn't be I would have pushed him very strongly and I would have set warned him to say this is not going to set the hall on fire but that's not what we want that's not that's not what we want here we want to reach some of these folks in the suburbs especially women who are thinking about not voting for you even though

they've Often voted for Republicans or even usually voted for Republicans right uh second big opportunity was this debate uh where I think he could have come in with a coherent message I wouldn't have agreed with it I would have thought parts of it were completely wrong but it could have been a lot more persuasive uh so I'm I'm going to turn to some questions Diane Wallace I think we've kind of answered this what did you two observe that showed effective debate Prep I'd say Camala Harris showed effective debate prep Donald Trump showed how stupid it

is not to have debate prep yeah no I agree with that she she was polished and and she speaks with a good economy of language she's very clear and precise that's partially the legal experience and so she was loaded up she was ready for for everything and I think you could kind of tell by her grin that she thought the baiting him stuff might work but it Turned out it it it Beyond work it wound him up and he was spinning off into the atmosphere so I think she couldn't believe her good luck which is

this guy is going to do Hari Cary here now I can't believe it but let me keep at it I thought she even got like 5% to a little bit gratuitous and smirky about the baiting him but I don't blame her she she realized early she had a little shaky beginning but then she started doing well and started figuring out how Easy it is to bait him and then he'll unscrew his head and then she just sat back and had a field day yeah I do think that very first moment where she came out went

behind his Podium and shook his hand when he clearly didn't intend to shake hands I think that probably threw him uh no no she had the she was on the offense and kind of controlled the whole thing okay uh Patricia Hanzo asks what are your concerns of about the safety risk to pole workers uh and if we're Going to count every ballot are new measures in place now to prevent fraud and tampering I I'd be happy to take a whack at that but Mike go ahead go ahead Bob well first of all we've amended the

Electoral College act to get rid of some of the ambiguities that uh president then president Trump wanted Mike Pence to exploit to reject the the the the uh the electoral votes from various States uh number two uh the Department of Homeland Security has now declared that January 6 when the electoral votes are are finally counted and the win are declared will be a national security event which means that you can't have a repetition of what happened the last time there will be plenty of troops plenty of police plenty of law enforcement in Washington to prevent

disruption then you get to the question of what's going to happen in the states and you know you have people in Arizona trying to fool around with With the the rules and saying well g i maybe if I have a reasonable basis I don't have to certify the election results that's almost certainly against the law in Arizona and I suspect that uh it that law would be enforced uh same kind of thing is going on in Georgia I don't know what Brian Kemp the the governor of Georgia will do about that but at the end

of the day I think courts do not want you know I I worry about the Supreme Court on some things On a lot of things I don't think they want to get into the position of interfering that overtly in a presidential campaign I thought they were wrong in in 2000 but there was at least a ju justiciable question there which is how do you count these ballots in Florida which are in dispute uh this I think would would be it would be ridiculous for a court to say oh yeah some some local guy in County

X can decide he's not going to certify the Ballots because he's got doubts about voting machines I just don't I I think that's pretty far-fetched Mike no look there there is a strong institutional cultural urge inside the Judiciary to never screw up an election I mean I've been in all kinds of Elections where in referendum elections the tees weren't crossed they never want to yank stuff off the ballot and control elections that's one of the reasons some of this Trump stuff has been delayed a a judge Wants to rule on the law not create a

public storm that could affect an election just as an institution they hate it doesn't mean they can't but it's it's very atypical so I'm with you I I I don't think of Waldo somebody finds a ballot jammed into a machine the wrong way we're going to hold presidential election it's very rare to find that that happening I also think there is a risk of trouble but the reddest states that love Trump the most Trump's going To win so it it it's it's hard to Riot in Mobile Alabama over the results in East Detroit Michigan you

know so I and as you say the the Machinery of of the state is prepared this time and the Electoral College act which got like no press was a very good development done by Republicans and Democrats together in the Senate quietly and effectively to patch the software problems we have uh or many of them in the whole electoral college system which was relying on Individual honor and they decided it was time to hedge that um in modern politics so yeah you can't have Renegade electors anymore yeah right right I mean they it really was significant

and it was reassuring to me that grownups in both parties said all right let's let's fix this so for all those Reasons I'm not I'm concerned but but I'm not in a a lather about it okay back to the campaign with Kimberly Bliss who asked is there any reason why Harris shouldn't Talk uh more about Donald Trump's mental problems many doctors have come out and said that he embodies the characteristics of narcissist sociopaths that he's not up to the job why isn't she talking about the elephant in the room well one it's out there already

and two you know the the one of the challenges and we both live with this as political Consultants is many voters think all voters are like them so the Way to win the election is to shout whatever they think so people who think Trump is mentally ill would love K to go out and say you're mentally ill it make them feel very good A lot of people watch campaigns they want therapy they want it to make them feel good undecided voters don't want a name calling contest with personal insults about mental health some after that

debate are jumping to this conclusion themselves one of the it was a pro-democratic group One of the large super packs ran the dial testing and what we mean by that is a representative sample of Voters watch the debate and turn a dial up or down based on what they like or don't like and then they discuss it and I I I got a little report on it uh in real time and right after the debate and it was fascinating to me that in the discussion a lot of the undecided voters were starting to or or

soft voters were diagnosing Trump and in a high stakes Debate after your performance when people want to diagnose your problem that is a very bad night and so some of this is happening on its own and you don't need comma harrris the scream it to make it effective in fact that would hurt it it would politicize the conclusion so as much as Democrats would love that uh I already know how they they're going to vote and they they they don't need a therapy animal attack to make them feel good so that would be a Mistake

for her well I tend to agree with that because the Press is now focusing on these questions right and and it's out there in The Ether it's out there in the public dialogue so I think it matters now here's one we can have a little fun with how much will the Taylor Swift endorsement affect voting turnout especially among younger voters I I think it'll have zero or negligible impact on turnout but it's yet another big force that makes the election about Trump by the way he responds to her so it's good for her endorsements are

generally massively overrated but she's a big force in pop culture and it's great and I love the fact that she was putting the sparkly boot into him right after he blew the debate and the timing of it was perfect I'm sure they had it planned I I tend to disagree a little bit I think that she will have an impact in terms of registering a lot of these Younger voters and in an election that as we know could be very very close uh you know 10,000 20,000 50,000 votes uh can make a big difference so

I I'm not I don't think we'll know until afterwards but I also agree that Trump reacting to what Trump should have said was well she's entitled to endorse whoever she wants instead the Trump campaign attacks her which I think is is political malpractice of the first order just draws more draws more Attention uh you know Ju Just creates a mess uh uh Patricia anzo feels very strongly that the media and elected officials must denounce the the racist hatian attack by Donald Trump why is that racist comment being ignored uh I I it's being discussed I

mean uh Dana Bash did five big minutes of it right after the debate on National Television so I I I don't buy the presumption that it's being ignored you can argue it ought to be more of a center um you might see Democratic surrogates if he keeps it up start saying that more to put it into effect but uh among among grumpy swing voters who are not woke Democrats when people start making attacks about racism there's there can be a push back it It's Tricky Tricky stuff so uh but I just don't believe it's being

hidden um and I I think a lot of the Trump stuff is so self-evident when you talk about it you make it too political and uh that's not an advantage so PE people can see that For what it is and it is it is being covered I believe yeah it I think it's more than being covered I think it's become part a water cooler conversation yeah totally you know there are some things that happen that the next day you go to you go to your office you go to work and you say did you see

that crazy thing on television last night and I think I think that's happened I think it's entered the popular mindset and popular culture and people are talking About it uh I do agree that it is deeply regrettable and despite the political risks of saying it I'm going to say it and I said it earlier it's a racist dog whistle yeah to these these these these black Haitian immigrants are eating your dog when in the only person I know of who may have eaten a dog recently is Bobby Kennedy uh yeah yeah I think might have

but you're right look a lot of the Immigrant stuff has racist subtext it always has an American history when when Trump says these immigrants are coming in here people aren't closing their eyes and thinking of sweds you know they're going to be people of color brown or black skin so it is a racist dog whistle but I think people get that the sad thing is in our pop culture some people like hearing it yeah okay now next question this is from Anonymous traditionally presidential campaigns spend quite a bit of money and energy on internal polling

which I understand is More sophisticated than public and media polling this is right up your Aly mik campaigns message manage their messaging based on these internals are there classic indications of a floundering candidate in how they change how they address issues when they're losing uh going negative losing message discipline whatever yeah I mean there there are two ways a campaign can flounder the message isn't working or internally it's melting down and there's no command structure uh And that's kind kind of what's happening in Trump World the only command structure is whatever Trump feels like saying

that day uh what the energy of the Trump campaign should be on is how do we how do we let this fire of bad debate burn out as quickly as possible and change the topic the shrewd thing they ought to be doing is saying okay we're gonna get we want put a muzzle on Trump for a day or two you know or Hood him like a falcon whatever you have to Do to shut him up and stop making news let the debate story get old and backround to the the press all right she's four points

ahead she's going to be president have you vetted her does she have an economic plan you know and and and get the move the microscope back onto her off Trump right now they're feeding the fire of a debate on Trump which is not good so that's the kind of stuff a smart campaign would be trying to do but that requires Precision Discipline and kind of a full front offense because in a real campaign all right we're going to send the candidate out to make this contrast speech on economics to draw out her plan which is

thin and undefined and she's trying to you know do the Ming Bas campaign where she doesn't say anything uh we're going to change up the advertising to do that uh and you know frankly we challenge her another debate on the economy in three days an offense with all the parts of The campaign working together uh there's none of that with Trump it's flying around insulting people and as he sees bad polling the insults are going to get worse so yeah I think I think they are floundering yeah I I I predict none of that will

happen I agree with you on that agree by the way she does have an economic plan I mean Goldman Sachs has assessed it uh the Wharton School has assessed it he has an economic plan but the problem here is how does she Communicate this to the voters they need they need to understand that she has a plan you may not like it you may like it to help for example firsttime home buyers be able to buy a home they need to understand that she has a plan that's real on the child tax credit and that

while his plan according to to Goldman Sachs would explode the deficit and lead to a recession that's not true with her plan well I can argue with that you know her plan is a blank check to the middle Class the old Democratic trick no I'm talking about point is she can make an argument the specifics of her plan have have been assessed by economists and by these major uh Wall Street institutions uh but the Challen I was about to say is to communicate those things to the voters who still have yet to make up their

minds or who don't know who she is and what she's for right to the extent they know they know liberal and that's not helping so you know I'm not I'm not Sure that's true I I well the New York Times poll was pretty pretty yeah I know but I that was before the debate and I think we're see I think after the debate people may think you know she's up to the job she's an affirmative personal ity uh she talks about the future not the past she's not a bag full of grievances about what happened

in this election and how people are conspiring against me I think it may be that she's in that position but I do agree that we Won't know that for sure for another four or five days uh and maybe even longer as the debate sinks in and we have the polling now here's an interesting question please comment on the upcoming vice presidential debate what you will what what will you be looking for Mike want to start well I'll be bored out of my mind because nothing can follow the fire rating act we Ju Just saw so

I think it might have low viewership um you know Waltz is an Affable guy uh but JD Vance is not an idiot he he's not particularly well liked but he's fast enough on his feet that he'll be able to prosecute the most liberal governor in America thing on Waltz so I'll be curious to see how W handles that because I like Tim Waltz I think I think he'd be a great nextdoor neighbor though his Persona is more Centrist affable and his Congressional Record was than his issue record is Governor so will will JD Vance Be

able to open that that Chasm a little and exploit it on the other hand you know JD Vans has a lot of splaining to do about cat ladies and all the stuff he's dug in on so I think Waltz who's a decent Communicator should be able to pin him back on a lot of that stuff so I think actually an impact it'll be a huge nothing Burger uh and it'll be it'll pale in comparison to what we just saw but um you know I'll probably watch it yeah well we've never seen anything like The debate

we just saw how do you top I mean yeah yeah I mean that the the Trump Biden debate was sad for Democrats difficult ultimately led to him leaving the race but I've never seen a conflagration on the debate stage quite what like the one that we saw uh with with uh Trump and Harris uh I I think Waltz will be very well prepared for this debate and I think if they try to make him America's most liberal Governor he's going to try to Take it to school breakfast and school lunch of course for every kid

in public schools because if you do this specifics of his record most of them are probably appealing to most people uh and I think he'll be prepared to Pivot and go after Vance who for example has suggested that school teachers who aren't married and don't have children uh are somehow or other derel I mean there are so many opportunities there uh I think people will watch it I that I don't it's not Going to have the audience this did I mean people talk about this 65 million people that doesn't count streaming that's that's this one

is going to have huge you know just the memes and the Tik Tock stuff I mean you can't you can't look at social media you don't have pictures of cats with rifles and you know you know all and and and and and crazy Trump stuff so yeah this thing's going to get full saturation the tailor Factor all all of It uh so Anonymous again asks oh Anonymous what is something uh KLA said or didn't say that disappointed you uh I guess Mike you'd say fracking uh I got more but go ahead well and so does

anonymous how about dodging questions on Afghanistan withdrawal uh or on her policy changes uh and aside from the immigration issue what do you think of Trump's final claim that uh Cala had 3.5 years to implement some of these reforms and for whatever reason did not well I'll take the last one I mean I think it's a stupid argument people don't think the vice president of the United States uh except maybe in the case of Dick Cheney gets to go out and implement the policies he wants vice president has to support the policies the president wants

to support I think on immigration for example she did pretty well when she pinned former president Trump on the fact that he had told the republicans in Congress not to pass a tough border bill Which Biden had agreed to and she had agreed to because he wanted the issue uh instead of solving the problem I think she did pretty well there Mike uh well look I when Trump is setting his hair on fire it doesn't matter but her policy issues were all thin her thematic stuff was great turned the page had enough no more of

this it was right in the voter mindset and and I thought was highly effective but on the policy stuff she was light as a feather now she got away With it because Trump was doing lunatic stuff so it didn't really matter but I've talked about the fracking answer I agree on Afghanistan uh and to your question about why didn't she enact anything well one is Bob said I fundamentally agree with him vice presidents don't get to enact that stuff and she was not a big player in the White House vice presidents kind of are on

a scale of how influential they are and she was at the End of the scale not her fault really the president decides that but but nobody Administration said we got a run up by KLA Harris the heavyweight it just wasn't the way she was treated fairly or unfairly so I think it's kind of unfair to accuser why didn't you enact anything well I was Ed McMahon not Johnny Carson so I don't get to do the monologue but the campaign would want to as any campaign would create kind of this Mirage that she was big key

player and You know she's flying around the world the line of stuff and that that's all hok but it's true of most vice presidents yeah I I agree with that I mean there's the famous moment in 1960 when President Eisenhower was asked at a press conference uh that Vice President Nixon was out there running on experienced counts can you name one policy or one thing where he had some real impact or some real influence and he said if you give me a week I might Think of something well there went experience issue I mean and

then Nixon got asked about it in the first debate uh so I think that's true I I believe to invoke George W bush which I don't do often that uh she was uh misunderstood in uh on the basis of her 2019 2020 campaign for president I don't think that was I don't think that campaign was authentically her I think uh there was a misreading of where the Democratic Electorate was that's how she got into I'm against fracking uh and she had a great start great announcement speech but then never had a coherent discipline message that

lasted longer than a week or two weeks uh and that's where I think part of a reputation came from I got to tell you having been involved in a lot of these things I'm very impressed with how she's handled herself since she was suddenly elevated into this Role no she well let me say one I've endorsed her I want her to win um doesn't mean I'm a super fan of her career uh I think you're bucking for Postmaster General here you're a very good advocate for her but I I can't I don't want Postmaster General

something else yeah okay work it out send him a tap of this uh I think your um your point that she was defined by the worst of campaigns I think she has some culpability in that but when you Lose it's always worse you know what I mean the history's getting written even poor Dan quail and potato you know which he read the card the teacher gave her not to embarrass her but it it lives with you forever um so I I I I I can't disagree that she's fundamentally I mean look my my analogy for

her is it's like the movie Twister and she was the rusty school bus that wasn't going anywhere and the tornado came by and the tornado Was based on the emotional Joy of Democrats thank God we're not going to lose with Joe and it picked her up and put her in the air at 40 uh feet in 400 miles an hour and to her credit the the bus came to life it needed the tornado to get off the ground okay it had been stuck in the mud for a while but she hasn't made any big mistakes

and I particularly thought her acceptance speech was very shrewd had a lot of the right dog whistles she got to the right Of trump on National Security which was both appropriate and smart politically uh and she decided you know what I have a history of not being so good on my feet so I'm going to take prep really seriously I'm I'm going to get the best people in the Democratic party and I I'm blanking on her first name but dun uh the lawyer Anita Anita dun um no not Biden done the other done um the

the lawyer done oh yeah okay the debate prepping done not Anita Anita's been put in a steel box somewhere she's not part of it she's in the super pack but the the lawyer former press secretary done and I apologize because I ought to know her name she did a tremendous job leading that debate team but KLA figured out you know what I got something impr proven to do I'll do the work and she showed up for an intensive profession debate she took it seriously and I think that's the best thing I can say about her

is somebody Who's ideologically not where she is um you know it's funny after her uh speech at the convention which I like so much I called one of her advisers and I said you know great job the speech was right down the middle where it ought to be I think you convince the country she's not a communist and the advisor said well she is but yeah I think we did did a pretty good job but anyway she unlike Trump to get to my point of the of the strongest thing that I think the debate Showed

us she is a serious person Trump is not a serious person and I think that contrast is going to be working great for her now going forward yeah she's certainly not a communist and uh I think throwing that thing around speaking as a friend or a commissar no I'm I'm no I'm speaking as an anti-communist long time anti com I know but I I I believe throwing that accusation around is kind of which which president former president Trump does all the time is Doesn't not only doesn't work it's probably counterproductive he probably learned it from

Roy Cohen who had been Joe silly she Winger in her heart I think she is but she's no communist yeah okay maybe we'll end on this I won't get to all the questions but Linda f asked Can you comment on Trump talking about the execution of babies after birth well not true it's it's just yeah as the fact Checker said it's not true it would be murder it would be prosecuted in any Jurisdiction in America it would be prosecuted in the most liberal blue States uh and you know I don't that's again goes to this

whole question of debate prep well and Madness because you can't prep you know a hyena to go out and by the way there's a great Twitter meme on this which Mike I do not think if Trump wins that you'll be Postmaster General no no I don't think I will either I I'm holding out for Secretary of the Navy But the great Twitter meme it shows a picture of trump of the debate 70y old 78-year-old baby killed at debate that that's kind of what happened but that that's total Madness you know and and Trump is just

not in a reality Zone he's not serious and he's got cognitive decline and he uh he's he's the other thing about Trump when you step back he's so irresponsible regarding the institutions because everything he does is throwing Assd everything's fixed lies to and that that categorically not so good for the old American democracy so unserious person in serious times let's see how it works out for him yeah well this but we're see we I think the country got a look at them that hopefully will inform their decision well I think this is one of the

most important if not the most important elections in a very very long time uh I want to thank all of you for joining us in our audience uh and on Behalf of Mike and me I want to thank those of you who support the center we do some I think some important work uh in terms of trying to promote a politics where we respect each other and we respect the truth uh and we'll see you to uh our next program programming our next program we have a rich uh uh array of programming this fall uh

that will deal with some of what Mike and I have talked about today but as developments occur we'll be following this election Very closely and talking about it and talking about it hopefully in a civil and respectful manner thank you all very much take care yes I Echo that thank you so much