006 - Bridgertons 1 - The Duke and I

[Music] hi I'm Zoe and I'm Kelsey okay Zoe I just have to tell you something really quick oh my gosh I finally got to see him was it last week ah congratulations it's a big life achievement I bought these tickets in December it is now August and so I've been sitting on these for a very long time and it finally happened and it was everything I wanted and I may have Bawled during like the entire second act but that's okay I was so prepared to bawl cuz I also got to see it last year this

year and I was so excited and I was like so afraid that I was gonna cry so much because like I cried every musical I see but I love Hamilton the most of all of anything in my life right now that I was so afraid I was gonna cry I had so many tissues with me but I was like don't cry don't cry you can't miss an absolute moment of this with tears I Literally so like I I did prepare I did put waterproof mascara on just in case so I was prepared and I like

held it together because there were just a lot of moving scenes in the first act where there's just like everything just was like culminating and it was just so powerful and I would feel my eyes start to water just from like the sheer energy of it and I'm not keep it together lady and I did and then Philip died and it just like went straight to hell yeah It's oh my gosh when I'm listening to it in my car just day-to-day because it's pretty much the only thing I listen to still three years after starting

to listen to it there are a few tracks that will just get me like absolutely sobbing and they aren't even necessarily the ones that you expect but sometimes in one last time when George Washington and Hamilton start reciting that speech oh my gosh - yes I am oh that's absolutely crying well and That's the thing is when I first listened to the soundtrack I was crying like just listening to it and I hadn't seen the show I really had no back history just listened to the whole thing through and I was already crying so when

I went to go see the show I was like I always gonna get bad just be prepared John looked at me at one point cuz he hadn't seen me crying because I was silently crying this whole life finally looks at me and he's just like The look on his face is like seriously because no I mean like just like streaming tears oh my gosh that was me in the front row of lame is one time but that's another story anyhow but I wanted to say to those of you who are listening and have never listened

to Hamilton I know we're going about it but it is an expensive show to see and it's hard to get tickets etc etc but what I really want to say is that the Soundtrack is song to song to song there is no there's no dialogue it's all song exactly so listening to the soundtrack you get the experience and it is absolutely magical and I think it's really important to listen to the soundtrack before you see it because there are so many words there are so many words in between and so many cool amazing things that

you just wouldn't get if you just go see it it's so overwhelming when you do see it so yeah Every time I listen to it I get more out of it so absolutely and there's podcasts and and reading materials and all sorts of cool things about it that you can learn about the different themes throughout it the word that lin-manuel Miranda chose to say throughout the whole thing it's like a theme you know right it runs through the world helpless his mother was helpless his wife was helpless another woman in his future becomes helpless and

that theme repeats And he is helpless against helpless women anyhow it's really great it's also super great and then what's really hilarious though is so John is now watching this like docu-series on like the American Revolution yeah so to preface this for everyone in this podcast my husband we're just gonna call him that almost almost is from South Africa so he doesn't really have the same background of the American Revolution as we got in school because He did not grow up in America so now he's like I'm really interested in American history so like the

last few days he's just been watching this Doc you series on the revolution I'm like these are fun facts just because I'm a history nerd that's fantastic I'm so glad you had such a good time and I wish we could talk about this for another hour but this is not a Hamilton fan cast is not however a Regency romance fan cast so That's what we're dealing today and before we jump into the book this week we've got a question so Kelsey what is your favorite movie based off of a classic book like one that sticks

to the original time period so for me I have two one of which is the 1960s version of Romeo and Juliet that movie blew me away when I first saw it I loved that movie like the costumes are great and it's all sticking to the original Shakespeare script and it's in the original time Period and just all the filming of it like it was praised at its time and honestly I still have it I have it on DVD like I love that movie it's fantastic that is one of my mother's favorite movies she made me

watch it like a little too young where it was like I was a little bit bored but the music absolutely stuck with me the score is beautiful and it is I agree it's a beautiful movie to look at so what's your second the second one is There believe it's is it Sense and Sensibility or is it another Shakespeare one Sense and Sensibility is also great it's an Austen one that's my favorite perfect then you can say more about it yeah so Sense and Sensibility is definitely my favorite it is absolutely breathtaking to look at and

to listen to and it's just it feels like you're sighing the whole time I love it I hate you know the characters you're supposed to hate you hate the characters are Supposed to love you love Alan Rickman as the kind of tragic hero is just incredible there are so many wonderful actors and the script was written by Emma Thompson who also stars in it and it's just pretty incredible because she was I guess a really big fan of the book and she as a fan adapted it into a script and it's just it's beautiful it's

perfect and I remember I saw the movie before I started reading the book we already know I've never finished the Book but I watched the movie before reading the book and I remember when I got to the passage in the book where they described the house where the the mother and the sisters go to live it was like the the movie had had literally set all those words about saying a single word for when you see the house I just it was it's a really beautiful movie and if you haven't seen it do go see

it great now I need to go rewatch that is So good I can watch it any day of the week and I'm not a movie person okay this is a lot of gushing we've already had to talk about so now we get to gush a little bit more because the book were reading today is the first book of the Bridget in series whoo yeah we were super excited to get started with this and then our excitement was tampered a little bit but we'll get into that into that so the first book of Julia Quinn's the

bridger ten series is the Duke and I Which is between the Duke of Hastings Simon Bassett and Daphne Bridger ttan the fourth child of all the brigands yeah so we already know because we've got about it before that Shonda Rhimes and Netflix are bringing this to life and we're really excited about so many different aspects of that and especially after reading this book I am interested to see the storylines they choose to go with how many of the children they decide to highlight and their romances Is it gonna only be about one is it you

know one main romance is it gonna be about multiple romances it's just gonna be really interesting to see it develop I think I'm really interested to because I'm like what if they do like one season is like one kid so then that's already giving you eight seasons because there's a guess there are eight kids in the British and family maybe this is a little important to say that Bridger tins have like we said eight children They're named a through G names based on their order Oh H sorry my bad I guess since it's the last

one yeah so that's that's an important fact about the Bridget ins yes and to keep on with our facts so we have some author facts since this is a new author but for us Julia Quinn these are fun facts you can find them on her website in 2001 she was a contestant on the game show with the weakest link and one $79,000 good job her yeah hell yeah go girl I wanna win $79,000 I could really use it and I think that was only one year after this book was published because this book is 19

years old that is true I was looking at the dates of these books and I was like oh the last book was written when I was quite young in 2013 Julia Quinn appeared in a bonafide MTV music video oh my gosh were you able to figure out which one or was it just ambiguous nope it's just ambiguous to be Fair I didn't really deep dive that much so but still she wasn't a music video at some point very cool and do you have any history this week Kelsey I do and it's a very poignant one

because I was inspired on it based on events that take place in the book cool so at one point in the book they go to the Royal Observatory at Greenwich and so here is my facts from the lovely Wikipedia page on the prime meridian in 1721 Great Britain established its own Meridian passing Through an early transit circle at the newly established Royal Observatory at Greenwich the Meridian was moved around 10 metres or so east on three occasions as transit circles with newer and better instruments were built on each occasion next door to the existing one

cool so it moved around a little bit and the final Meridian was established as an imaginary line from the North Pole to the South Pole passing through the airy transit circle This became Great Britain's meridian in 1851 which was then adopted by the rest of the world very very cool so the timeline on this is a little bit later because in the book Simon tells how it's been adopted the the meridians been adopted around the world so now everything's out of Britain but this book takes the place a little bit before 1851 yeah I think

he said that he was going to go to America but America had just entered into a conflict with Great Britain which made me think we're talking war of 1812 Napoleonic Wars Regency period right smack in there is I think when this book is happening yes that's what I gathered anyway but now we have some new facts about the prime meridian very cool so we're gonna get into the book but I do have to actually give our first trigger warning this week sadly and that warning is about consent so if you are sensitive to the subject

of consent then II advised that we are gonna get into that there's definitely some dicey stuff in this book we are gonna discuss it in depth and it's also an open conversation and we're gonna talk more about that in the parlor but it is just something we want everybody to know about going into this episode I did look around and you know this has been a hot topic on the social medias because especially because of the bridge Orton's becoming a Netflix series a lot of people have been Rereading the book and going like whoa a

lot of people seem to have forgotten about the events that do take place in this book and as far as I or anybody else on social media can find it does not appear that Julia Quinn has ever commented on this book and the situations and the consent issues that this book has so if anybody does know that she has please let us know I'd love to know her opinions however not to help it out but alternate titles for this Books were Daphne's bad air day hei are and how to bear and air which I don't

even quite get that reference but I feel like Daphne's bad air day is even it just looks even worse right now but that looks really terrible yeah Tara Lee does yeah I have my own suggestion for a title for this book but we'll get into that when we get to the get to our opinions alrighty so this book also has a lot of tropes in it and I think it's got one main trope which is my best Friend's sister or my brother's best friend right yes and Fuzz some other tropes in it as well there's

a secret pain of a secret past and there's a fake relationship it's a bit of a marriage of convenience you know they're fighting ruination here and also to there's the virgin aspect of it which ends up playing a huge part a huge part yeah I would say like a really naive virgin - and I think that's important to note so Again our main characters are simon arthur henry FitzRandolph basset Duke of haste and miss Daphne Bridger - yes and the first line of the books tells you that he has way too many names yeah it's

very cute I will I will say I love a good intro and oh my gosh this book has a really delightful introduction it is so heartwarming and you your heart just feels for Simon so when you start reading this book it is a very high Point it is and I will say the prologue like it was so engaging and it was just so necessary to really understand the rest of the book and to understand his character as a whole agreed and first before I get into the prologue which I know I just spoke about but

now I'm gonna tell you about I would like to introduce you to the Bridget in family simply because there is a lot of Bridget ins and we're going to meet many of them and this book is the first book in the Series so you get a lot of setup yes and I am going to give you the British ins description by none other than lady whistle down and Lady whistle down is a reoccurring character in the first few books of the Bridget uns series she is a gossip columnist who appeared one day these newspapers just

started appearing on people's doorsteps for two weeks and then on the third week the delivery boys started collecting money for them and everybody was so addicted that they had To start paying and I loved her entrepreneurial spirit get him hooked get him in there you go lady with I know seriously I I wrote my I made a comment and it was like good business good business sense this lady like good job she knows how to market and again sidenote Julie Andrews is the one who is voicing lady whistle town in the Netflix series it's gonna

be amazing oh yeah it is so let's get into the Bridger Tunes hmm the Britons are by far the most prolific family and the upper echelon of society such industriousness on the part of the Vai contest and the late by count is commendable although one can find only banality in their choice of names for their children Anthony Benedict Colin Daphne Eloise Francesca Gregory and hyacinth orderliness is of course beneficial in all things but one would think that intelligent parents Be able to keep their children straight without needing to alphabetize their names it has been said

that lady Bridget ins dearest goals to see all of her offspring happily married but truly one can only wonder if this is an impossible feat eight children eight happy marriages it boggles the mind lady whistle down society papers and that's a pretty I would say nice review of lady whistle down because lady whistle down is known for telling it Like it and they say the reason why she says scandalous is because she doesn't hide anyone's name she blatant Lisa calls out who she's mentioning yeah it's not like Lady B and Lord P it's it's violet

bridge Orton or you know Simon Bassett so anyhow let's get into Simon's sad childhood sad sad childhood Simon Bassett was an only child his mother died in childbirth fulfilling her duty of producing an heir to the dukedom his dad was actually very merciless and His quest for an heir and even though the doctors had told his mother not to try to have children anymore because she kept having miscarriages the children that did make it full-term were stillborn you know or only lived a few weeks she had a really hard time of it the doctors were

like don't get pregnant again and she did anyway and she finally produced a son that lived and she died very shortly after he took his first Breaths his dad was very excited and doted on him until he started realizing Simon wasn't speaking yet his nurse was like but he reads he's not even three yet and he's reading how is this possible but his dad was just like he's an idiot he's not talking and then Simon did speak and unfortunately Simon had a stutter which was a really really bad stutter it wasn't even like a little

one it was pretty incapacitating yes with that stutter his dad basically disowned Him he was like my son's an idiot he's an imbecile I would rather not have a son than have a son who stutters and basically wrote off Simon completely and his nurse very diligently worked with Simon Simon was really working hard you know and he tried to confront his dad at one point and say I'm your son you need to acknowledge me and right before he sees his dad he finds out that his dad's been telling everyone that he was dead yeah pretty

Pretty brutal and he was 11 at the time yeah he did everything in life to try to better himself and please his dad and his dad is just an absolute royal [ __ ] yeah no his does is a horrible human being and he gets so upset which brings the stutter out even more so unfortunately he still stutters in front of his dad his dad's like laughs at him and she's like you're still an idiot but Simon really takes that and really pushes Himself to do better he gets himself into eaten by like marching his

way to the headmaster and be like the check must have been lost in the mail because I'm the future Duke of Hastings and I deserve to be here and he really sets out to remake himself and does a very good job of it but this kind of sets the tone because he's so angry at his father and then he decides if he can't be the perfect son for his father by trying to do everything perfectly then he's just Gonna try to do everything to make his dad mad yeah and that is how he sets about

living his life so now we're back in our present-day book and Daphne is with her mother reading the lady whistle down gossip sheet and every new chapter in this book starts with a delicious bit of whistle town gossip which is really fun yes so she's reading Louis LaVon she and the whistle down papers are saying that the duke of hastings has returned from abroad simon has spent the last six Years traveling the world he is only now studying foot in England because his dad has died yes it was interesting that that was the timing of

him coming back to England is after his father has died and of course we'll sadhanas also written that lovely paragraph reread earlier about the bridger tens which Daphne says is a veritable benediction compared to what she wrote about the feathering tins last week yeah lady whistle down is pretty hard on the Feathering 10 family to be fair majority of them deserve it except for everyone feels for Penelope but we'll get into that later we sure well so Daphne his mother is pushing for Daphne to get married she's had a couple proposals in the past but

she's turned them down because they were just under one was just like old and luckily her family's nice to her and is like you don't have to marry the first guy that Offers and after Daphne reads the passage about the Duke coming back from whistle down her mother says he is quite unsuitable due to his rakish past and advanced age which Daphne's like he's Anthony's age that's eight years older than me what are you talking about he's literally the same age as your son who is also unmarried yeah and he's his friend what why is

that a problem anyhow anyhoo so Daphne believes but her lack of suitable proposals is just Because she's not quite pretty and she's just she's just likable but no one likes her like sir yeah she feels like she is just kind of one of the guys friends with everybody but nobody really sees her as a lady because she's so amiable and can have such good conversations and can kind of fit in with everybody and so she feels like she isn't what the guys want yes and now we are lady danbury's ball and Lady Danbury is a

dragon of the ton but she's also hilarious love Lady Danbury cannot wait to see her on screen cannot cannot I can't either she's gonna be hilarious we also meet Daphne's three older brothers Anthony Benedict and Colin I can't really go into it because it could literally just be this whole synopsis but the rapport between the siblings that Julia Quinn writes is fantastic it's so spot-on because it's so genuinely sibling banter it's like making fun of but still very protective and like caring about the well-being but Just like the jokes and it's it's great I love

it absolutely I'm so glad you commented on that because I completely agree her dialogue is fantastic and so as I was like writing the synopsis here for our review I was also like how I lived there were pages and pages of them talking back and forth and I was like okay what do I put here you know as part of my as part of my notes but it's a guy it's exactly that I wrote almost exactly the same thing which is just like the Siblings are great together you know yeah they they're wonderful and they

feel like siblings they feel like siblings I the dialogue never feels per flow between them it feels totally necessary and fun yes and so there is one slight problem at this ball and it's that nigel beer brook is there and nigel has just been turned down by anthony for Daphne's hand in marriage nigel a beer brook is a bit of an idiot As they kindly say yeah another side note is that the person that they cast for nigel beer brook is giving me total like mature neville longbottom fives i'm super here for it anyhow anyhow

so Nigel's there and he's been trying to catch Daphne's eye and she's trying to avoid him she's like stealthily trying to avoid him as best she can at this ball but he is very persistently finding her and then we cut to Simon who is trying to sneak into a lady danburrys Ball because he really likes LED danbury she was nice to him when he was a kid and he spent a lot of time at her house and so he's there to say hi to her and he's living like I'm gonna go in say hi and

then I'm gonna leave and it's going to break and as he's sneaking through the back corner he hears a conversation and it is because Nigel has finally cornered Daphne in the hallway and is trying to get her to change her mind yeah and like I said know what going Into this book knowing that there was a consent issue I was really reading this book with consent on my mind so I highlighted quite a few quotes and passages about consent where it did get brought up and I didn't include them all if anybody's interested I can

direct you to all of them later I might put them up on our blog but this is the first one so I'm gonna read it but a Simon started backing quietly up he heard something that caught his attention no no had some Young lady been forced into the deserted hallway against her will Simon had no great desire to be anyone's hero but even he could not let such an insult pass so he's hearing this confrontation between Daphne and Nigel and he's all ready to go in and save the day and in fact he's about to

say so thing when Daphne who has a lot of older brothers just punches Nigel in the face and he goes down like a rock yes and Simon literally laughs out loud he Can't help it yeah I really love this because of course at first they don't know who each other is and she says who are you and he says my intention was to be a rescuer but clearly you had no need of my services yes I loved that as an introduction line of the two characters they are kind of trading back and forth and they're

talking and Simon's like this girl's pretty like she's funny like I like this girl because she's also like he's trying to be his charming rakish Self and she's like you really you really shouldn't do that you just you just look silly don't don't do that oh yeah there's I I think my favorite quote is this scene what you're gonna get to at the end well we will revisit yes so Nigel wakes up and he tries to go for Daphne again and then he actually calls her miss Burton so then Simon suddenly clicks and he's like

oh man it's Anthony's sister dangit yeah thou shalt not covet thy best Friend's sister I think yes what'd he think exactly anyway he's going after Daphne and she's like no dude no and so I'm just gonna read the quote because it just is gonna be better that way Nigel chooses that moment to regain his energy although clearly not his equilibrium and yanked himself free of Simon's grip he threw himself onto Daphne making incoherent drunken noises all the way if Daphne hadn't had her back to the wall she would have been Knocked to the ground as

it was she hit the wall with a bone-jarring thud knocking all the breath from her body Oh for the love of Christ the Duke swore sounding supremely disgusted he hauled Nigel off Daphne then turned to her and asked can I hit him oh please do go ahead she replied still gasping for breath she tried to be kind and generous towards the urns while suiter but really enough was enough yeah and so they decide to leave Nigel there they were Trying to like load him up into a carriage at first but again enough is enough and

so they part ways and both go back to the ballroom yes when they're in the ballroom Simon meets up with Anthony and Anthony starts to warn him about mothers of single daughters and how now that he's at this ball he's gonna get it because now all the ladies are gonna be all over him because he's a bachelor and this is Anthony's like soul Misery and life is being put upon to get married by all these mothers yeah and then Simon also learns that like it's not always fun for the daughter he was looking around the

ballroom and sees that Daphne looks truly miserable in her circumstances next to the mother at this time being introduced to all these people he also notices the feathering Tain's mother like dragging her children around the ball some of which are complicit in it and then there's Penelope who's in the back and Simon thinks to himself he's like if I have to dance with someone I'll dance with that person because she looks like she's having a terrible time yeah it's very sweet so then he's still talking with the bridger twin brothers and he lets slip but

he knows Daphne he just lets slip something that Daphne said he's like oh well Daphne said and they're like how do you know Daphne yeah all of a sudden the brothers who were very Jolly and good-natured towards him all of a sudden all three of em were looking at him like uh-huh mm-hmm don't do that excuse me yeah how do you at what and then he was like oh I ran into her in the hallway and like I noticed she looked like you guys so I introduced myself yeah real fly and he realizes that must

be Daphne's problem is that she just has three idiot older brothers yes not that other guys don't like her but that they're afraid of her Pack of brothers yes and more bal things happen and eventually Simon and Daphne and waltzing yet he's standing with Daphne and her mom and her brothers and all of a sudden the feathering teens are coming over looking very determined and he literally just grabs Daphne and again this is another concent quote and I know it's like just a dance but I do think it kind of puts a different lens on

things because the passage goes and finally she kind of sort of just a teeny but Actually wanted to dance with the Duke of course the arrogant board didn't even give her the chance to except before Daphne could manage and I'd be delighted or even a mere yes he had her halfway across the room thank God you didn't refuse the Duke said with great feeling when would I have had the opportunity he grinned at her Daphne answered that with a scowl I wasn't giving the opportunity to accept either if you recall he raised an eyebrow does

that Mean I must ask you again no of course not Daphne replied rolling her eyes that would be rather childish of me don't you think and besides it would cause a terrible scene which I don't think either of us desires so you know she kind of calls him out on it and it turns into a little witty moment between them and while they're dancing Simon realizes that he and Daphne might be able to help each other out because she is unmarried and wants to be married and he's Noticing that now that he's dancing with her

other gentlemen are like interested in her and he would like to avoid being matched with every eligible lady in the ballroom and he thinks that being tied to her and being seen escorting her will calm those mothers Daphne's like that's not gonna work yeah Daphne sees some flaws in his plan for sure she thinks that she has a lot more to gain by this than he does but he reiterates to her that he will never marry he said that he Made vows when he was younger and tries to live by them but now all of

his friends here are married and their wives had invited him to things and he just wants to be able to navigate that without so much matchmaking and also he is kind of attracted to Daphne so he'd rather spend more time in her presence but that's not what he admits to her yes so they agree on this plan so the next day he shows up at the bridge virgins drawing-room with a bouquet of flowers And finds there's a bunch of men there hanging out with Daphne the most that have ever come yes and he's a little

annoyed that there's a lot of guys there he's like um excuse me especially since she doesn't immediately like jump to say hi to him she's like you know talking to the gentlemen who were there and he's like what the hell I'm right here yeah so he was adorable and brought flowers for violet Burton Daphne's mother yeah which was like so sweet it's like the Most heart-wrenching quote and moment and we don't know why Daphne's father died in this book so I'm gonna spoil it you learn it in the next book but their father died of

a bee sting his second bee sting ever which is typical for bee stings and so he went into anaphylactic shock and died pretty suddenly so we learned about that in book 2 yes and so the quote from Daphne is no one ever gave her flowers she realized at least not since her Father had died 10 years earlier violet was such a mother Daphne had forgotten that she was a woman as well yeah it's so sweet she was just like so sweet and they talked a little bit more about their plan Daphne insist that they bring

Anthony into their plan Anthony does not like the idea of them even pretending to court and he's very open about his like absolutely not and they kind of convince him that it's a good idea but he does like swear to Simon that if he Compromises Daphne it'll be pistols at dawn and he doesn't even care that they've been best friends for years yeah Anthony is a bit of a hothead yes also a bit of an overprotective brother yeah not not not that into it no so there is a family dinner happening and Anthony had originally

invited Simon to this dinner before this whole fake courtship with Daphne was happening and he's like no you're not invited to dinner anymore and then Daphne and violet are like oh No no come to dinner like that's great come to dinner mm-hmm which is more just a lovely affair where Simon gets to see Daphne with her siblings and we get to see the whole bridger-teton clan and how they functioned together as a family and Simon who's never had a family of his own because he was an only child and his dad never paid any attention

to him is really amazed by this whole family aspect and he's also for someone who was an only child is really good with the Kids hyacinth and Gregory are both like 10 11 years old they're really young and yet he really interacts well with them and Daphne's really taken by how well he is with her younger siblings and how kind he is so it's just a really great moment there's peas flying across the table and there's violet being like I saw that I know it didn't look like it but I did so it's really quite

cute we meet hyacinth who is a hoot in half yeah so all great I would say in the preceding six books up to hers hyacinth is so incredible probably more incredible than in her own book but one day we'll get there and yes I'll see you that's how I feel today me exactly it's been a while so then from dinner Simon's invited to a family outing the next day to the Royal Observatory to which he says he would love to go because he's an educated fellow they talked about how he got a first and what

abstract math or Something yeah just mathematics but later Daphne learned that his type of math doesn't even have numbers in it it's very cute yes but yeah so they're going to the Prime Meridian there you go and they have a lovely picnic and I was gonna give you a lot of picnic facts about this because I listen to a podcast by saver so saver is a podcast by howstuffworks and they are all about food and history of food and they did History of picnics and it was actually very interesting because all these books have all

these picnics and then I got to learn about the history of picnics awesome I'm gonna check that out myself yeah you should it's good podcast they've got good banter hopefully we have equally good banter fingers crossed so they have a really lovely day and everything's going great until Gregory rammed into Anthony with a thud on his part and a grunt on Anthony's and before Anyone knew it Anthony was sputtering in the water right next to Simon Daphne clapped a hand to her mouth her eyes wide as saucers violent yanked down her arm I highly suggest

you don't laugh yeah so Gregory does not end up in the Thames but Anthony and Simon do both of them trying to save Gregory from falling in the Thames but whoops it doesn't quite work out that way we got a Duncan and Anthony's still a Little annoyed by the whole like Simon with Daphne thing even if it is fake so he was trying to be macho man and it backfired on both of them yeah after this they quote for a couple of weeks but really they're only meeting at balls Simon was just coming there in

the evenings but not coming to their house and something that's been happening is as they hang out together more even at these balls Daphne really gives Simon a Feeling of ease and peace that he's never felt with another person before he really is taken with her because of how much at ease she puts him and he's someone who is constantly working on making sure he's not stuttering making sure he's saying only what needs to be said so he doesn't stumble over his words and he never seems to have that problem with her he's always free

with his tongue he always is very open with her and she has The same thing she's at this ball out of town and she's sad because Simon's not supposed to come and she realizes she doesn't really have any fun without him there every ball she goes to she looks for him and she's trying to hang out with him and realizes they'd really be kind of come friends in their own right they enjoy each other's company not just because they're attracted to each other but because they just genuinely like hanging out and I want to Say

to that like up to this point their relationship really has been developing and Simon it's kind of going against his better instincts there's a quote here that I want to share where he's thinking and it says Simon caught her gaze his eyes burning hot and intense into hers a warning bell sounded in his mind he wanted her he wanted her so desperately he was straining against his clothing but he could never ever so much as touch her because to do so would be to shatter Every last one of her dreams and break or not Simon

wasn't certain he could live with himself if he did that so I think that's an important thing to share is that Simon's really wrestling this whole time with knowing that they have these two totally alternate futures his is I am NOT getting married I'm not having children and Daphne really wants to have kids and have a large family she's from a large family so as much as the attraction is there between them he He knows he can't let it happen to do so would be to shatter her dreams yes and so they're at this ball

and she's missing him and then he appears because he was like I know better to do and I'd rather be here with you yeah and so while they're at this ball they go off to the side to talk together and a friend of his father's comes up and tells Simon that he has letters for him from his father and Simon's just like burned them and leaves And as he storms away Daphne's still there and the Duke is like listen I'm sick the doctor says it's any day now can I give these letters to you for

safekeeping and she's like whoa whoa whoa like I don't know if that's a good idea but he's like listen you know I think you're the perfect person to have them and she doesn't want them to be destroyed she doesn't she doesn't know right she has no context as to why Simon is so upset about this she knows nothing About his relationship with his father so she's like okay I'll keep them but like man warning bells right there yeah I was like no don't touch it but you know what that's not the biggest problem in this

book no it's not the least of our worries yeah so at this point Simon does give Daphne a little bit of more information about his father because she does probe and at first he shuts down but then he admits that they were not on good terms and he does not want to talk About him so at least she understands that something's not right and it's not a subject he enjoys discussing and after kind of that discussion Simon turns silent and brooding and Daphne keeps trying to like pick up the conversation again but he isn't having

it and so then she's like I'm gonna go out to the garden and he's like no you shouldn't do that I can't go out there with you and she's like I'm going come On come with me and he begs her quote not to do this but he can't resist and he follows her into the garden and he pulls her behind a hedge and kisses her and it is an absolute like cataclysmic event ooh when they kiss and he starts saying things like I never knew I never dreamed and yet he admits like well he did

dream yeah and he is like pulling down her bodice and uncovering her breasts when who should stumble upon them but Anthony comes storming in And shoves him aside oh my god so and punching each other and Daphne's like you idiot stop fighting and she tries to intervene and someone she doesn't even know who like knocks her aside and then she ends up like on her back stuck in her dress and like a thornbush of some kind and then it gets them to stop though because they hear her like cries of dismay actual like oh no

this hurts and they both snap out of their rage and look at her and they're like oh Dear God and they extract her from the bush uh and then Anthony has to give her his coat and then Anthony's like pistols at dawn dude because he's like you're gonna have to marry her and he's like I can't I won't marry her yeah Simon is shaken in so many ways here because everything has gone wrong he's lost the person he cares about he lost his best friend he has been beaten up he's he's just physically mentally so

beaten down and he says if it if it could be anybody Daph it would be you I promise you that and he's stuttering here and it's written I I just think that it's it's a little hard for me to try to reread the stuttering and it's it's kind of wonderful that in these moments of high-stress you know we get this characterization from him it'd make it really makes him seem very vulnerable and Daphne replies I've always known that I wasn't the sort of woman men dream of but I never thought anyone Preferred death to marriage

with me and Daphne's of course really hurt but she doesn't understand really what's going on yes he he was trying like with his if it could be anyone it would be you like he's trying to make her understand that it's not her like it has something to do with him and it's like his own internal things but obviously like Anthony's still like hovering being mr. bare face and like he's just been beat up his eyes almost so long shot and he's like he Can't really give her the whole backstory but and he's unwilling to give

her the whole body yeah and he really is he doesn't want to tell her any of this like he's this is his own secret shame that really one knows about true and so they escort her out of the ball no one sees her we think but her dresses and tatters she's got Anthony's coat on her and she goes home and at home once Colin gets home she recruits him to help her figure out Where the duel is being held because she has to save Simon she's like this is crazy he can't die for me like

we he he has to agree to marry me and Colin even says like someone saw you and she's like what did they see and he's like well they saw you go to the garden but that's all they saw but it's still in a gossipy Society it's a nice enough it's enough because if they find out that then Anthony who's good friends with Simon and everyone Knows that if they had a duel suddenly in the morning and someone saw Simon and Daphne leave the ballroom it's it would ruin her absolutely it would so Colin is gonna

help her figure out where the duel is being held and he's only gonna do it because she admits that she loves him and it doesn't matter that he told her he wouldn't marry her like she loves him and she can't let him be killed yeah she feels like he needs her to save him which is true he's not gonna save Himself oh no he's not they cut over to Anthony and Simon at dawn and Simon's just resigned to having himself be killed because he knows Anthony's still pissed and it has a hot temper and is

gonna shoot like for a target and Simon's not gonna aim on his best friend because he knows he messed up and Simon didn't even bring a second like yeah didn't even he did he's just like it's I'm this is over I'm done yeah it's really sad and so Daphne comes Charging up and goes to stop this duel and they're like what are you doing here and daph and he runs up to Simon and like punches him in the face and he's like what the hell was that for she's like stay down he can't shoot you

if you're on the ground I mean there's a lot of punching in this book but and that one's at least kind of cute yes and so she tells him that someone saw them she's like you can't die like someone saw us and so he knows that her life Will be ruined even if he tries to get out of this and he still says no her life will be ruined because someone saw them and if he dies on the dueling field people are gonna know that it was because of something she did and life will be

over for her that being said he tries to tell her again that he can't marry her and it's for her own good he's trying to protect her by not marrying her which she's like but you have to actually marry me now so finally He does agree he says I will marry you but you have to listen to me and what I have to say and then you have to agree you want to marry me and he says to her and this is the direct quote I can't have children and she says how do you know

and he says I just do so she says you're worth it and they agree to get married and they have a wedding so it's a very sweet wedding and they laughed during their kiss and hyacinth has this very cute line about how if they're Laughing now they'll probably be laughing forever sometime before the wedding though violet gives Daphne some semblance of the sex talk which is pathetic oh it is the worst sex talk on the face of the planet I wrote in all caps that my notes this page were just in all caps I was

very angry and Daphne is perilously naive about sex all violet says is that it doesn't have to be unpleasant and you just do it enough so that you have a Baby and then Daphne is like wait I have more questions wait like I'm in violet just leaves and no violets like this is too awkward for me and I can't do this so violets like I feel uncomfortable with this so I'm just gonna like you're just gonna have to figure this out on your own because I just saw your mother and I so - before eight

times eight times she's done this before and she was later which is hilarious cuz hi that was actually a little bit of a funny part And this because Daphne's like so you've done it eight times and then her mom's like okay well I did it more than eight but like that's not the point yeah and later in the book Simon Says what we're all thinking when Simon finds out how how naive Daphne is about sex he's like he has this quote about the same like she had eight children and she was uncomfortable talking to you

about this and I'm like okay Simon like thanks for saying what we're all thinking yeah Exactly it's just it's I have a lot of opinions about this we'll get to there oh that note though with this as I feel like this was the stupid period of 1800s through like the early 1900s of like don't let women know that there's sex in the world like keep their ankles hittin tables have to have tablecloths because you can't see their legs cuz men will get turned on my legs well I yeah I'm not saying that this isn't like

historically correct I'm just Saying I don't oh no I don't like this either and honestly like to go into that so unprepared is just it's just pure stupidity yeah especially from a very loving caring doting close mother who can literally talk to her kids about everything who's so close to her kid I'm getting into opinions but it's just it's mind-boggling let's move on yes so after the wedding Simon takes her to Cliveden castle which is the country seat which is where he Grew up he doesn't have the most pleasant memories there because there's a lot

of bad feelings that he associates that because he had a lot of bad feelings growing up and yet he still takes her there because it's the closest property to London and she can see a little bit of like his estate yeah and they end up stopping at an inn overnight through a series of events and of course there's only one bedroom oh no and davines like well that's not a Problem and he's like is a problem and then she's like wait don't you want to sleep with me oh my god you said you can't have

kids can you not have sex even though she doesn't even know the word for sex like oh no she's like can you not have marital relations yeah can I not do what hey yeah and of course his manly gene takes over and heat one laugh a little bit about it cuz he's like oh no like we can still have sex like that's nothing yeah I can still Enjoy this yeah but he wasn't planning to like consummate the marriage an inn but after she kind of confesses her ignorance towards sex he's like kind of walking her

through it and you know she and it was really embarrassing for her she's like this is actually embarrassing for me like I feel so stupid and I don't like feeling stupid yeah and like I need you to walk me through this because I don't know what's happening and so they have encounter number one he has they Walked through it yeah they can't not they are so feeling each other and yes so since he is refusing to have children and not that he's physically incapable of having children but because he just refuses to have children one

thing we get through the encounters is that he always pulls out right before he has his orgasm and Daphney not knowing anything about sex whatsoever she just thinks it's normal because obviously she's never done this before she's never heard About any of it so she's like oh this is just what happens yeah and I think anybody reading it or listening to it can only know that that's not going to turn out well no and so once they get to the castle they quickly they sequester themselves in a bedroom for an entire week we don't get

any encounters there but literally it just says they sequester themselves into the bedroom for an entire week and I'm just got to say like how yeah especially not like Having done this before like so after the week and she finally emerges and Daphne gets to know the staff yes particularly she gets to know the housekeeper who starts to share a little bit about Simon's childhood including that he had a stutter when he was a kid and that his father treated him terribly because of it and then they talk about Ozzie um Kelsey why didn't you

read your notes the what you wrote them because you wrote his Father treated him like [ __ ] and I just felt like that was very accurate I will say it again then I was trying to not swear all the time any though I move on I was I was teasing but he does treat you like [ __ ] and then also to she comments about how sign is a strong person and likes you need strong seed to get a strong child and something along those lines and that just gets Daphne thinking like she doesn't

immediately put 1 & 2 together but it starts to kind Of like enter her brain a little but yeah the housekeeper was originally his mother's maid and she was around for all of the miscarriages and the stillborn and so she was even saying that like maybe the Duke seed was the problem you know that this you need strong healthy seed too yada yada yada and so yeah Daphne just kind of like files that away cuz really she's trying to process that the Duke was such an [ __ ] to his son and that Simon had

a Stutter and this really makes Daphne admire Simon even more and she just has really taken with his strength of character and how he was able to accomplish so much even when his own father was willing to basically say that he was dead because of a stutter and she's like you wouldn't even know it looking at him today and she very much admired his perseverance so then that evening she has just overcome and she does admit that she loves him and she Sees that freaks him out a little bit yeah it's the first time anyone

in his entire life has said those words to him so he's quite moved by it yes and she's just like I don't need to hear it you don't need to comment on it I just I just needed to tell you that yeah and then they have encounter number two yes they do get knit on and afterwards as when [ __ ] hits the fan yeah it sure does because he pulls out this time and goes to cuddle with her and she suddenly puts One plus one together and realized that the seed the housekeeper was talking

about was what Simon has ejaculated all over the sheet yeah and she realizes that he's purposefully preventing them from having kids not that he can't so they have a pretty big argument at this point and the quote is that she says why can't you have children Simon and he says again the details aren't important Daphne and that really irritated me because yes the details are important Simon and she's upset and screaming things like you took advantage of my stupidity of my ignorance and she tries to kick him out of the room and then he's like

this is my room she's like fine then I'll leave which I just thought was funny yeah to have this epic argument where finally it culminates in Simon saying some truths for the first time and yes and it was a cruel hard expression when she'd never seen on his face before but Hasting dies with me he said all those cousins he was so worried about inheriting he shrugged and let out a brittle laughter they all had daughters isn't that something yeah he is real messed up his dad really messed him up we'll give him that his

dad was an ass his life was hard it was really messed up so now for the first time Daphne understands what she agreed to which is never having children because Simon doesn't want to which is Very different than Simon actually can't so Simon storms out and upon his return he finds out that Daphne has moved to another room and locked the door so this is the next day they've had a whole day to kind of cool off but he comes back and Daphne's got the door locked and they have another fight and he tells her

to get back in their room cuz she does let him in so that they can talk but she refuses and she actually says no means no so Oh Daphne yes so Daphne also says That he is not his own man that his father still owns him and even when they have sex his father is always there his father when he she even says like when you pull out and spill your seat on the bed your father is with us like that is that is your father they're not just you and me because he's trying to

say no it's only about us and and she's really right in this right that his father is holding over him from the grave yes and they're really upset and this is another Where we kind of told the line and the idea of consent and he says I can make you want me he whispered I know his voice dropped even lower hoarse and RJ and even if I couldn't you're mine you belong to me I could force you to let me stay Daphne felt about a hundred years old as she said you would never do that

and he knew she was right so all he did was wrench himself away from her and storm out of the room yeah so they're both a little bit irredeemable in these Moments they they have some some tough moments some tough words that they say back and forth to each other so then Simon makes a mistake he leaves and gets absolutely shit-faced oh yeah he gets rip-roaring drunk and then comes back and he does the lovey-dovey knocking on the door Let Me In I miss you yeah yeah it's very it's a little schlopp sticky and Daphne

is also a little bit naive with drunk people she is like I've Seen drunk people before I've seen my brother's drunk okay like you've seen barely any drunk people then because even if you've seen your brother's drunk they're your family you don't really know what drunk people are like lady yeah and he's not really apologizing but he is you know saying nice things he's got his drunk truth on that's all yeah he's just got a lot of drunk truth on and so she's like you need to sleep it off you're drunk you need to sleep

it Off and he's like okay and he's in her room and he just goes and lays on the bed and he's like but will you stay with me yeah he begs her to stay and she knows that she shouldn't but she falls asleep with him and after an hour she wakes up and realizes that he is aroused yes and she had no idea that could happen when guys were asleep so she kind of starts to instigate a bit and we get some idea of like him waking up for any of you who are worried this

Is going to get a little trigger II just FYI if you have not had those moments yet this is kind of our main focal point of that conversation yeah so she instigates sex and he is still kind of drunk and half asleep and goes along with it and we kind of get that he's awake but he looks like he's more just following her lead because he's really susceptible at this time and so she but she's also feeling she's feeling powerful she's feeling really powerful The quote is he was asleep and probably still more than a

little bit drunk and she could do whatever she wanted with him she could have whatever she wanted and so there's also a quote where he says Oh Daphne he moaned his head tossing from side to side I need you I need you now so there are these moments of him kind of being complicit but he does not have his whole faculty and Daphne is as we know feeling powerful knowing these Things yes and now that she has a little bit more information about like where babies come from and how babies come to be she instigates

where she's on top and they have a good time and then she brings him to his point and right when he would normally pull out which he does go to do she basically wraps herself around him and doesn't allow it yeah and it does say he feebly attempted however she quote-unquote bears down and wraps her Arms around him and then when they do part she curls up into a little ball as if to keep every drop of him inside her so there's definitely some really bad decisions that have just happened yes she had her powerful

moment and she was like this is the only way I'm ever gonna have kids and she also was like he needs a catalyst to change his mind because he's never gonna get out of that break with his dad and having kids isn't gonna like do anything because his daddy's Dead well I don't I don't know but anyhow but anyway that's kind of like her justification which we don't even really need to talk about so Simon though is his is so upset he is stuttering he is furious he is he it's real it's really a sad

passage to his whole his whole reaction after this is completely justified and completely heartbreaking he feels obviously betrayed he's reduced to like I said the stuttering again and He leaves the next day and leaves a terribly hard letter for her that says something to the effect of you know if your efforts were met with success my steward will know where to find me yeah and I think he's very justified in it and then she is really taken aback because he left her and she knew that she had done something that she may not have been

forgiven for but she never actually believed he would leave yeah she's she's pretty upset too rightfully So because she did it bad and she knows that and so she ends up deciding to go to London to be closer to her family but she ends up staying at Hastings house she doesn't go live with her family again she goes to to Simon's house and she does a lot of thinking during that time in London so one of the passages is she hadn't planned it she hadn't looked at him while he was sleeping and thought he's probably

still drunk I can make love to Him and capture his seed and he'll never know it hadn't happened that way Daphne wasn't quite sure how it had happened but one moment she was above him and the next she'd realized he wasn't going to withdraw in time and she'd made certain he couldn't so even though Daphne isn't clear with what happened she knows it's not good not that that not that that redeems her no it doesn't at all but there is the acknowledgement that there was an error On her part and she does realize that he

had a right to leaf yeah and she's not expecting him to be back and so she's trying to figure out how she's going to live a life without him yeah and so weeks go by about I think it's about seven weeks go by ish because when she finally decides to write to Simon because she has missed her courses by three weeks so her brothers are pissed at Simon because she's alone in London and very unhappy and so Anthony happens To come by when she's done writing this note and he ends up currying the note to

Simon and he promises not to read the note though so Anthony doesn't know and when Anthony finds him there he says Daphne is in London but he won't force him to go back because he needs to come on his own and does point out to Simon that Simon's in love with Daphne and Simon looks miserable and Anthony kind of leaves it at that in his one not completely dickish moment of this book Anthony is without physical violence go Anthony Simon at this point he really wasn't that far away he was like on his next closest

estate he wanted to be within reach if Daphne needed him and he was kind of all ready to go back to see Daphne anyway he had time to think about what she done but also his reaction to it and kind of dissected that just for his own personal growth and personal understanding but really what we get From this is he'd fled because he couldn't bear the way he'd been with her she'd reduced him to the stuttering stammering fool of his childhood she'd rendered him mute brought back that awful choking feeling the horror of not being

able to say what he felt and she tricked him or had she he rubbed his hands wearily against his ID and forehead as he tried to remember the exact details of that fateful morning Daphne had definitely been the leader of Their lovemaking but he distinctly recalled his own voice urging her on he should not have encouraged what he knew he could not stop so there is Simon's justification for what it's worth so after getting the letter he heads back to London and when he goes to the house to see Daphne he finds out that she's

out riding and he's like pregnant women should not be riding even I know that yeah and she is actually upset because she just found out that she's not Pregnant and she has no relationship with Simon and she's not sure how to fix it and so she's out riding recklessly and she hears a rider approach so then she goes into a gallop and she's searched looking behind her to see what's happening and then cool she gets clotheslined by a branch Hey yes and Simon is of course really upset and I'm just gonna read the quotes from

their exchange because this is kind of their reconciliation a bit this is the moment Where they finally have their conversation again and it starts their whole relationship back up finally yes and he's like are you okay she's like why do you care she asked flatly you didn't want this baby no I didn't but now that it's here I don't want you to kill it this baby good god I talk as if it ever actually existed as if it were ever more than a product of my imagination she looked down and when she spoke again her

voice Was achingly sad and my dreams and so but then he left and she's like but why did you leave and she's like it wasn't about what I did his eyes met hers evenly I didn't like what you did but that wasn't why you left she persisted and so they do have their acknowledgement of the event of that morning yeah it's it's a bit it's a bit light I do like what he says I do like that he says I didn't like what you did I yeah I don't know if it's enough I Feel like

they need to have more conversation but at least it gets them to the next point yeah so it's at least a good starting point and she also you know openly admits that there is no baby she's like I was wrong and and he thinks at first that she lied to him and she says no I really truly didn't lie to you I really thought that I was pregnant maybe I will my courses away they've never been totally consistent consistent and so yeah then they talk about does he Want children right because he has never thought

about that before he's always let his father rule him and she says if you don't want a child because you don't want one that's one thing but if you deny yourself the joy of fatherhood because of a dead man then you're a coward and I know that's harsh and she knows that that's harsh but she feels like it needs to be said I don't know I feel like it's beating a dead horse yeah but at least they have Their conversation and they make their way back to Hastings house and when they get there all free

older Bridget and brothers are there ready to you know get in Simon's face about why he left and his their sisters been so unhappy and he was mean ger and he's like get out of my house yeah like I'm talking to her so the British and brothers are not just there to puff up they're also there because they say they won't leave until he convinces them that he loves Daphne And Daphne's like oh my god no this is not happening get out of my house get out of my house I don't want to pressure Simon

into this and Simon just like it's like everybody hold on a second and he like takes her into the hallway still in their view but far enough away that they can have a private conversation and he tells her that he is in love with her and then they start making out a lot and then he kind of like turns around I was like can y'all leave so that I can take My wife upstairs so yeah they are finally alone and they have encounter number four where simon says to her that he wants to prove his

love to her and he does so by finishing inside of her which i think is a little bit too soon but they actually do have a conversation after encounter number four where she asks him like do you have regrets and he says not regrets just thoughts and he really had never thought about having kids before and what that Would be like and really his biggest fear is that they would have a child like him and she's like well that won't matter because we'll love the child and he'll have you to lean on and teach him

things and it is wonderful and sweet and and that's great but she realizes that there's also one last piece that she hasn't been forthcoming about and those are the letters exactly so Simon is like okay and she's like should I do you want to read them and He's like no and then she's like would you want to burn them and he's like no she's like so should I put them back in my desk and he's like okay yeah no he's just very indifferent towards them it's a bit of a as far as like a point

it's kind of a bit of a letdown hey I see I like it I think it's cool because it's unexpected right he know I like that they didn't open them because I think that there was no reason to open the letters I under percent agree with that There was no reason to and I think it shows that his father doesn't have hold over him like he used to anymore right he doesn't need to know he's just trying to figure things out for himself so I I liked it I remember being let down at first too

I was like what are the letters but after a reread I was like yeah yeah I'm into it and we also have an epilogue because Julia Quinn is really great about her Etha locks yes she is So the epilogue opens to the birth of their fourth child in which they finally have a son to carry on that dukedom yes they do they've got three older daughters and what we're actually reading is the lady whistle down article and lady whistle down has correctly we find the name of their son because they've named their kids in alphabetical

order again and so she said could their son be named anything other than David yes and Then he's like how does she know that she has spies in here I know it yes but they just show that they are happy and in love and have four beautiful children and he is very happy being a father to their four children yeah and that's the end of the book and there is much to discuss but before we do that shall we adjourn to the parlor we shall [Music] all right so we have a book Recommendation this week

which comes from a friend of ours on Instagram whose name is foo me and she is a super account to follow she has tons of great book recommendations her handle is when foo me met romance and it's when underscore foo me which is spelled f u n as in Nancy amaz and Mary i underscore met underscore romance and I highly recommend you check her out so she is a huge fan of Beverley Jenkins and she wrote an awesome essay about her Which I'm gonna link to on her blog and our Instagram and you should totally

read the article about it but I wanted to know if you're new to Beverley Jenkins where you should start so what she says is she recommends forbidden by Beverly Jenkins is the perfect start on a non Regency journey the start of this trilogy you'll be entranced by the characters chemistry the history of the nation and the strength of the plot fall in love with the Fontaine's so I think That sounds intriguing the cover looks a beautiful so I'm excited I haven't read any Beverly Jenkins and I need to start so thank you foo me and

if you have a book recommendation we would love to hear from you so we know that we are two middle-class straight white girls talking about upper-class straight white people falling in love over a hundred years ago but there is so much more out there so if you have something different or an inclusive author that you love we Want to hear about it and we want to share it here let us know your thoughts through email we're at bromance pod at gmail.com and this episode in particular we know has some troubling themes to discuss if you've

got some thoughts of your own send us a message and we'll share some of them on a later episode we definitely want to continue this conversation so once again our email is romance pod at gmail.com and if you'd like to find us on social media you can Find us on Instagram at T as in Tom and as in Nancy strumpets and we're also at the same name on Facebook and you do yep same day on YouTube and all of our episodes are on YouTube as well and if you want to be in the nose sign

up for our email notifications on our website our website is romance pod comm and there you can find episodes more information about us and other resources so take a look yeah and I work really hard on those email Updates so if you don't sign up anyhow our last thing to say here in the parlor is to rate review and subscribe we are a new podcast in fact today again a little bit behind the scenes here today Apple podcasts approved us so I know that that shows when we're actually recording this episode but we are getting

some episodes in the bank because Kelsey is getting married we have alluded to this so yeah very exciting so but now you can find us on Apple podcasts on Spotify on stitcher On tuned in and by the time you hear this episode I am sure that other pod catchers like overcast which just update their feeds from Apple podcasts will have us as well so whatever you use to listen to podcasts you should be able to find us there but the thing that helps us get found as a new podcast is ratings and reviews and not

only does it help us get found but it really helps us make the show better so if you're feeling like you've got some opinions about Things we want to hear him let us know so let's pick this book apart there's a lot of thoughts and feelings yeah so I will take it away fine so I generally think that there are three main problems with the plot so those three problems are Simon's secret pain number two is violet withholding and number three is Anthony being a hot-headed jackass and I think that all of these factors contribute

heavily to Daphne's dumb decisions Which is what I think that the book title should have been she makes so many dumb decisions she really does but I feel like and I'm not trying to justify her bad decisions but she is 20 years old she is naive she has previously in early parts of the book been rewarded for taking a step romantically and kind of pushing Simon to do things he wasn't yet ready to do and so she's been rewarded and so she I don't know I just think there's a lot of things that lead To

her dumb decisions they don't justify them they really don't but it's not it's not totally out of the blue for me that she makes a foolish decision like that no and I think that it could be it could have been a book where Simon and Daphne's relationship was allowed to progress naturally and she was seeing other people and Simon decided he didn't like that and then maybe that allowed him to reevaluate his stance on marriage simply because he knew that he had to Have Daphne his life and couldn't stand seeing her with someone else or

even that they had everything had transpired but then he let her know his secret pain earlier and then they got to actually have some conversations about it instead of like just arguments and duels and things though yeah so yeah and I think that you know for me like Daphne thinking marriage was just gonna be a jolly good idea even though Simon was more willing to die than get married to Her yeah and she's like I must save him and he's like this is not gonna go well and she's like but don't die and I feel

like it's supposed to be a big romantic just but now when I reread it I just felt I just felt bad my biggest thing was I felt a lot of her words when she takes him into the garden when she is like you need to save me because I'm gonna be ruined unless you marry me I thought all of that was just like and I don't even Know if she realized she was doing it but I just it was just a little bit manipulative oh I thought it was manipulative and I think it was like

it was honest like she was trying to save him she really thought she was doing good in that moment in the trying to get him to marry her because she was like either he dies or he marries me and one he's alive and when he's dead and I have to live with that and my [ __ ] the other so I'll do two if my notes Since I did just see Hamilton which I mentioned at the beginning of this thing and I'm just like Hamilton's life would have been so much different and longer if he

hadn't like have all these duels that take place in that lifetime and this whole culture cuz this Hamilton's life actually no the duels were probably around the same time Anthony's bothering to duel Simon you know in fictional life yeah and this whole idea of like duels solving problems until it's like dude um Yeah duels are really dumb and yeah so I also just felt like it was so frustrating that Anthony was just willing to be a hot-headed jackass and throw away his life his best friend's life his sister's life he just wasn't thinking and Benedict

backs him up and my brother who like at least has a little brains even though they refer to him as the idiot Bridget in like he's a little brains I don't know we're gonna read Anthony Benedict and Colin's books soon and my memory of those now my memory of this book was also very different because I had forgotten about the whole concise remembered it very clearly it was the one problem I had with the book at the beginning like when I read it I was like a bit iffy about it and yeah really stuck in

my brain yeah so that was a very firm memory so it rereading it I was trying to find the redemption in it and like trying to like see why it Wasn't bad and then I was like nope I still don't like it it's still not good so I'm gonna comment on that I want to mention what I was gonna say about the three brothers though is that I think that all three of them get way different and way better characterizations in the next book are they're their own books I think your company is like I

remember like in his book loving Anthony and then the Saint Benedict we don't get much Benedict here But Benedict is very soft I don't remember best barley oh I love that so and then Colin also is way more than this aloof guy but also Colin's book takes place at least eight years later than this book so he's had eight years to grow so it's anyhow but I want to comment back on what you were saying before which is just remembering this and having a problem with it and I I thought it was interesting because there's

been So much you know noise about this book because a lot of people are rereading it and I was like oh yeah I forgot about that part and that was kind of troubling to me like I probably read this book five six years ago something like that for the first time I have read it more than once so I don't know when the second or third time that I've reread it was but I was like why didn't I remember that why didn't I remember that as part of their story what I remembered was That they

pretended to be together and then they ended up getting married and that he had a stutter those were the things that I remembered so I was like okay well what I I thought there must be something that redeemed it in my eyes right like so I was reading the book I was really trying to look for passages about consent and what I took away is I still don't know I don't know I don't I don't know if it's redeemed I think it doesn't look good in the 2019 lens I Don't think what Daphne did is

okay I don't think a lot of the things that Simon did was okay I don't think what Viola did was okay I don't think what Anthony did was okay I'm kind of just mad at everybody and yes I'm I'm mad at Daphne too but if that scene wasn't there which is such a small part of the book I love her she's strong she's funny she's interesting she's got some great quotes she's got great conversation and then she's a cool Character so it's it's just weird I still feel conflicted and I was trying to trying to

also think about what Julia Quinn was saying about this and what I found is that between the quotes of like Daphne thinking about what happened and Simon thinking about what happened neither of them had a clear picture of who was for lack of a better term at fault for that situation happening now I as a reader think Daphne is the one who was in Control and Simon was incapacitated and therefore Daphne was at fault but I also feel like if the author doesn't even know who is at fault then what's happening here but I think

that's something that with today's culture and everything there is so much in the sense of like you know you need to have consent you need to do this and I think that there is such a I think this scene is just very realistic in the sense that there's a lot of blurred lines behind it You know it's like really identifying what was problematic and what wasn't and knowing that in like your own personal life you know I know that like for me I have ended up in situations where I you know needed to get myself

out of them and but you know when I think back about that you know I I fully acknowledge the parts in that I took to get myself to those places you know and I fully acknowledge like what was going through my head and what put me self what put Myself there and yes I needed to get out and yes it wasn't like it could have been avoided but it was like this bad decisions were made in Everett with everyone involved which I think that can be said at any time you're more than one person and

you're doing something does that make sense because there are a lot of blurred lines and I think the conversation about consent does need to acknowledge that there are blurred lines and it's really you know discussing What's okay what's not okay and then also when some like when something happens it's not okay also realizing your own part in that does that make sense yeah without putting blame on the video right like even even if you made bad decisions that get got and this is that this isn't you know like the general you even if somebody makes

bad decisions that gets them into a situation the moment that they say I want out of this situation that should Be a speciality right absolutely it's very it's very rarely respect yes right and hopefully hopefully were growing as a culture in a society and I think sometimes it's not even it's it's not respected immediately I think that's where a lot of it comes in I think a lot of it's like you get that that push you know it's like oh but you don't really mean that it's like so that you but you should have treated

everywhere and that's where this is is Cuz sorry well that's exactly where like earlier in this book Daphne is like when she's pushing Simon out into the garden he is like no Daphne don't do this and then he follows her and rewards her with with finally kissing her you know and so she is like I pushed the boundaries here and I got what I wanted that that actually what what turned out was something good even though yes then there's the duel in the yada yada yada but that still leads to them being Married and she

feels like she's in love with this man and he needs her and it's worth it right so she is rewarded for pushing the boundaries and she gets what she wants and then another time she kind of you know she pushes the boundaries I feel like saying pushes the boundaries is is not enough because she clearly violates him and yes but I think she is naive enough because of all of the people around her because of her mother not telling her things because we have To remember that this story and the time to when they when

they have this this scene together is less than two months yes so they have literally known each other less than two months and she has known about sex for a few weeks not even she's known about sex for like a week and a half maybe yeah it's well they I think they've been married to it but we're like it's so little time it's so yeah time does that again does that justify anything absolutely no and I think but does it make it more more understandable why bad decisions were made I think that I think that's

why you know it can't be I hate to call it a blame game because like in one sense you do you know you do have someone who takes it too far she took it too far that's a hundred percent a blaming sit like you can 100% say that but at the same time too you can't really say 100% her fault either so I think that's just a Conversation that needs to continue to happen and everyone has their own their own lines but that's the interesting thing about this conversation and that's why these things are so

grey and that's why they are such a hot topic right now is because we're realizing the world's a lot more gray than we ever thought it was and we need to try to pick apart the gray and figure out where's the good where's the bad well and here's something I think we should discuss too Which is like if the roles were reversed how would we be reacting to it right if if Simon had taken advantage of Daphne I think we would be much harsher I think I said I thought Farah by 900% I even made

that comment I'm like if if the roles were reversed you know like we're trying to find a reason to like give Dini we're trying to find that reason and if the roles were reversed we just completely write-off Simon and we'd be like he's just terrible human like Blah blah blah well I don't know if Simon had the same backstory if Simon if literally the entire characters were reversed and Simon knew nothing about sex and yada yada yada you know and all those things I might give him a little bit of the same Pat not pass

the same kind of struggle that I'm giving Daphne right but but I absolutely would probably be saying rape I mean I would be saying right yeah I would be saying he raped it one that's that's the Conversation is like here it's like okay this is a conversation of consent and then you and I even had the same struggles like do we call this a conversation about consent or do we call this a conversation about rape yeah and I think that I I am after reading this scene and I think this is that this will be

a controversial thing but I mean I don't feel like it's I I struggled to feel like it's it's rape because he is an active participant the fact is he Wants to have sex with her it is not that he doesn't want to have sex with her it is that he does not want to have a child with her and so that is where the line is crossed and the consent is crossed it is not that he doesn't want to have sex it is that he doesn't want to get her pregnant and the fact at the

end of the act she doesn't pull away and respect that that's where I think it's different in this case he is an active willing participant he is not Completely passed out he is egging her on he is speaking with her he's asking her things where did you learn that Oh Daphne I need you so much so that's why I don't necessarily think this is right and I think that you just put that and very clear concise terms and I'm going to leave it at that because I can't say it better all right so I also

think maybe a quick conversation on sign and stutter yes God his dad [ __ ] him up so bad I'm sorry Ah he is such a vulnerable beautiful little boy and his struggles and her writing of Simon's childhood is heartbreaking I was so angry I finished the prologue and I was truly angry and had that man been a real human person I would have told him off yeah it's really sad and it's just like it's frustrating because he does let his kind of anger at his father rule his life and I will say that Simon's

decisions throughout the whole book and his whole refusal to Marry and not even really consider it until literally his life was on the line you know I think that I was all like without the prologue and without his learning about his past we would have been like we wouldn't have liked him nearly as much because we're like yeah like why like why is he doing this he's being such a jerk like can he get over it but because we had the prologue where he really learned the backstory we learned the struggle that he went Through

yeah I think that that makes him so much more of a dynamic character and that really does give justification for his choices and why it's so hard for him to let those things go because this has been his life for 28 years yeah absolutely makes sense to me so let's talk a little bit more about our hero what would you rate Simon Simon for me see I like his head because of the prologue because we had his backstory and we had it so hard I actually rate him a little higher like I think Simon's a

bit more of like a 7 yeah I agree I I would give him an 8 if there wasn't the shadow of the incident kind of hanging over this book Simon I remember Simon I remember his stutter it is such a unique characterization and there's a lot more in the book about how he overcame it how his personality was formed based on this stutter and there are some really great passages about his adult life and how he Kind of rose to who he was because of the way he acted and I love that about him but

I completely give him a 7 as well yes and I think yeah so for me and I just love like you said I'm having the stutter those moments of vulnerability just made me like a k---forty and it made me love him even more because he was a kind and honest person and honestly most of his dickish stuff just came from his past and like if you took that away he would probably just be this Wonderful human being so I really liked him 7 all right so Daphne I'm gonna rate her lower this is the hard

one Kelsey give it to me I'm just gonna give her a 5 Wow we are in the same boat this week you for sure cuz yeah I had such a hard time with Daphne I really do I do I really want to like her she's strong when she gets cowed by Simon's temper she bucks herself up and she's like no I'm not just gonna like I'm not gonna cower underneath your Temper we're gonna have to talk about this she wants to talk about it she goes in and she's like we need to talk about they

tried so many times she does I so many times but she does have these like slight manipulative tendencies I don't like and I know where they come from I know it comes from being naive and just trying to see the world through rose-colored glasses and being like I love him and I can make his life better but I just those manipulative tendencies Plus that whole scene like I just she's a five I can't get behind her as much as and I remember liking Daphne so much honey - and then rereading it like Simon rates so

much higher than Daphne for me for sure I completely agree and I remember one time you were like a five is like I need there loved nor hated them you know and and I feel like their first for like 70% of the book I loved Daphne and then like 10% of I hated Daphne and then 20% of the book I just didn't know what to think about Daphne you know yeah so it was like so she was probably a 7 7.5 and then she was like a 2 at one point and now I'm just like

confused and so I feel like she just falls in the middle because I don't think she's irredeemable I think that she's a good character to have a conversation about you know yes but I I don't I can't I can't write her highly because I'm still mad at her for what She did correct so all right but this book did have some great parts some great quotes people my god it did I was highlighting like a fiend I had so many things yeah it was very hard to choose which one to talk about but Julia Quinn

we haven't spoken about her writing yet Julia Quinn is a brilliant writer I love her writing her dialogue I think is what gets know for sure this is like I couldn't remember what it was I loved About Julia Quinn but her dialogue is just so good like when they're being a family it feels like a family talking together when they're having the intimate moments or you're if Simon's struggling you feel it like when Simon has his little stuttery moments like you ache for him and you feel that vulnerability with him like she's so good with

her dialogue it's so good that I just I could I was just eating it up absolutely as was I so what have you Chosen to a spotlight for us today okay so I had a few I'm gonna pick two of that it's very difficult the first one I did which I still believe in is one from violet bridge Orton it's and it's actually in her own head talking and for me when I first got into violet bridge Orton I was like why don't I like violet bridge Orton I remember really liking violet I liked the

mother she was hilarious she was great I hate her right now hate her I hated Her at the moment and then she kind of like there were these little moments and I was like now remember why I had those feelings of like for her so here's the first one none of her children seemed to be on to any of her tricks just blather on about nothing in particular and she could be rid of any of the Minute Rice yeah she is a very managing mama and in some good ways and then in some not-so-good ways

but you know she had eight kids to raise on her own just Her and a horde of servants that's great yes and then another one is so this was happening at the dual and Simon is like how did you get here and Daphne says Colin took me fridge Orton he bellowed three chestnut heads swiveled in his direction Simon stomped across the grass murder in his eyes I meant the idiot Bridget in uh that I believe Anthony said mildly tilting his head towards Colin would refer to you I I had that one Highlighted as well so

I have a couple so my two favorites I will get to but there's just one line that I really liked that Julia Quinn did because I really disliked it when the hero call says my dear Miss blah blah blah you know and that happens a lot and sometimes they'll say it like the whole book and it's really annoying so I I happen to notice it as we know I get real pedantic about these things I happen to notice it and so she said it Twice and immediately I like pressed find on my Kindle it was

only twice in the whole book and I was like okay that's weird and the second time Simon Says my dear Miss Fritton and Daphne interrupts and says if you call me that again I shall scream like yeah daphne girl after my eyes are that was hilarious - yeah so then the next quote that I want to share is when Simon gets Daphne an engagement ring he it's an emerald and it's beautiful and she Loves it and he says to match your eyes and she's like what are you talking about I have brown eyes and he's

like no they're not completely brown they've got a little rim of green around the edge and so then the quote is fancy that she murmured I have green eyes and he says well I wouldn't go so far as to say for today she interrupted I refuse to believe they're anything but green I loved that line I liked I highlighted it as oh god it's so sweet and so Beautiful I really liked it and I love that she's like cuz she does she runs something and she's like oh fancy that who knew I had green eyes

he's like okay well that's going a little far she's like no no no you said there was great now they're green today they're green man so then the other thing I like is when they get to the inn as they're traveling to the castle and they have to stop at the inn and there's Only one room she notices that there's something amiss and he had asked her to wait by the door and so she notices he's arguing with the innkeeper and so she wanders over and this occurs she made her way over to her husband's

side is anything amiss she inquired politely Simon spared her a brief glance I thought you were waiting by the door I was she smiled brightly I moved I love I love that one too to me that's crime Daphne like Daphne but that's why I'm like Daphne like it's ring there's another time when she laughs in his face when she's trying to be intimidating and she's just like I have four brothers like I'm sorry I didn't mean to wound your pride you if it had been anybody else it would have worked but on me I you

know and so as I just loved that that was right at the beginning and I just thought it was hilarious so hilarious So next off we've got our encounter counter and there are four written scenes one of them which we discussed at length and it's troubling they also spend a week sequestered away but there are four scenes now other than are troubling consent scene which is not steamy in the least how would I rate the other scenes steam enos wise I would say they were like I feel for me I felt like it was I

thought you know it they were hot out of the oven yeah I I would agree They were very steamy in the moments that they had together and he was a very caring good lover I felt like for the most part and Daphne was having fun exploring her newfound sexuality and sensuality and so that was good until it wasn't yeah I like to thank hot out of the oven because it's hot to touch right when it first comes out and then you give it a few minutes and then it's just fine I would agree Whoa I

don't even know where to start with like our recap if it's a feminist I I think we gotta say offender ranks yeah I think so too um yeah I mean like she's a strong woman and she takes charge she takes thing into her own hand but this book just has it tabling yes that I don't think advance like the feminist cause yeah and I think like you can also take away kind of you can take away a lot of different things I think depending on your own Personal experience as I definitely took away some things

that I don't want to get into and yeah I just I think that unfortunately it's it's an offender although Julia Quinn in her own even like social profiles says you know feminist and I a hundreds that believe she is one I think this book was written 19 years ago she's never commented on this so I imagine she's got a lot of thoughts about it but it's difficult to kind of put those into words I'm Interested to see how Netflix approaches it and what storylines are changed yes I'm really interested to see what they're gonna do

with this book now that we've reread it so I'm very very curious so we're at the end here what would you rate this book Kelsey I'm gonna rate this book like a six because while there was the troubling scene in there I did really like Simon a medium like Daphne I really liked the interactions between Daphne and her siblings I liked the set Up because they're like you met a lot of characters but you still felt it centered around Daphne and Simon and I loved the writing in it so that's why for me it's like

a sex cuz I still liked it but there was so many troubling things towards the end of it that I really couldn't rate it higher than that I actually just completely agree you said all the words I wanted to say I also rated a six I also think all those things so the question is would I Recommend it and so I I still would recommend this book but I wouldn't recommend it like I used to I would would preface this - anybody that there is an issue of consent and that it is not required reading

to read the whole Britain series that the rest of them I think are much better and if you don't want to read a book like that then you don't have to agreed and I still think is a great book and I think if you want to read the Bridger dunes I think the projections is a fabulous series and you know some of us are sticklers sticklers for reading the whole thing so but it would be something to just be like there are some issues with it that I'm aware of but if you can get past

those it's a good book yeah so speaking of good books what are we reading next time we're gonna read the frigate uns numbered DOS yes we are and that book is the VY count who loved me and that is Anthony and Kate's book And we are excited to read it we're excited to hate Anthony less yeah and we're gonna get into some competitive long sports so I look forward ah yes this is great Oh oh my god I forgot about that I was so excited but I forgot that origin in this book I knew it

takes place in the other books but I forgot the origin in this book yes Ballad of death yeah but Mallett of Jack yes so it's very exciting we're looking forward to that and just the Heads up we're doing - Bridget ends and then we're doing something a little bit different so just - we're just sprinkling the Bridget ends in and in the interim go ahead and head on over to Apple podcasts rate review subscribe that's how we get found and thank you for listening thank you tell your friends and see you next week as we

read the Viking who loved me by Julia Quinn [Music] get to our opinion I read your say I Read your suggestion and I literally laughed out loud okay I'm not gonna keep this in there but I laughed out loud when I wrote it you look I read it and I literally went like oh pretty incapacitating yes and a word incapacitating I think so anyhow it is now and they talked a little bit more about their plan Daphne insist that they bring Anthony into their plan and every time you do that I get I feel like

you're saying Stop talking you know I'm sorry I literally like Schmidt Singh I this room is so hot all I'm gonna do is turn on a fan or something but then we're gonna have fan noise so like this is all for the podcast I'm sorry I should literally go get a like a hand fan we'd probably hear that too any good he does not like and sorry my dog just came flying I was like in the epilogue there's a little like excited quote and this is Simon he was talking to Daphne cuz she's like how

Do I look and he's like there was a certain history to this while heavily pregnant with Amelia she had asked him if she was radiant or if she looks like a waddling duck he told her she looked like a radiant duck that had not been the correct answer [Music] you