The No.1 ADHD Expert: How To Master Your ADHD - Dr NED Hallowell

Like whoever invented the wheel definitely had add Dr Ned Hollowell is a Harvard educated psychiatrist who has authored over 20 books on adht what advice would you have for someone who's perhaps a little bit older they get a diagnosis they want to start that journey of unraveling taking off the mask what advice would you have for someone who's starting that journey of self-discovery my first rule is never Worry alone go find someone who understands it to to talk to about it get information you begin with education You Begin by breaking new ground but you want

to do it with someone you can try medication saying let's do 2 years of non-medication first is sort of like saying why don't we do 2 years of squinting before we try eyeglasses a riging search is for stimulation even if it's horrifically painful so what you need to do in order to break it Medication won't work by the way you need to learn the skill of this episode is dedicated to anyone who catastrophizes and thinks their world's going to end when someone asks them for a quick chat without any context this sponsored ad was agreed

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just help anyway back to the episode Edward thank you so much for joining us it's my pleasure thank you for inviting me I just want to start off by saying how thrilled I am that you're here in my opinion you're you're the leading voice on ADHD globally and in fact when I got my diagnosis I listened to your work I I I watched your videos and it was hugely Beneficial so for me personally a massive thank you for that too well massive thank you right back at you that's that's awfully nice of you to say

before we start I'm want to reveal your ADHD item I'm going to lean over and lift up this cloth okay now that is a Lamborghini wow um but I think the eagle eyed Eagle eyed amongst the fans of your work will recognize your metaphor as being a Ferrari but because this was very last minute I was Only able to Source a lambini but it's impressive that you got one at all you know I want to start with the first question um Ned do you have ADHD and if so when was your first memory of feeling

different well I certainly have it uh but growing up I knew I was different but I didn't know the name for it so I I I I knew I was different for any number of reasons my my family was chaotic and that sort of you know so divor this was in the in the I'm 74 years old so when I Was growing up divorce was not as common as it is now and it was a little bit shameful so my mother had been divorced twice and so I carried that around and I was left-handed and

and then and that made me different um uh I was I was smart noticeably smart so that made me different in a good way although I got took some Flack about that from people who didn't didn't like smart people you know and and so and and I came from a family where where being different was Was prized you know a family of iconic clasts and a family of independent thinkers and I was encouraged as a little boy to to look at the other side and and I'm very grateful for that you know and I went

to schools where it was you were encouraged to ask questions as opposed to a lot of schools in the United States where you're not supposed to ask any questions you're just supposed to shut up and memorize and and and fortunately I was not brought up in That tradition but you know because I could have been squashed I could have had my spirit squashed and that people don't realize people with ADD whether they know they have it or not we're very sensitive and you know we're we're a little bit of uh ridicule could shut us down

for for ages you know and and uh um it's a shame you I'm forgetting the man's name he's a wonderful man who coined the term rejection sensitive dysphoria and and It's a big mouthful of syllables for B basically meaning we can be devastated by by what we perceive as Rejection it doesn't even have to be a real rejection you know we can just see the the the look in someone's eye I I tell a story where I was giving a grand BRS um uh back at Harvard and and you know it was a big deal

and I was very primed up for it and and I gave the talk and and uh my old teacher Les Havens was sitting in the front row and I got a standing Ovation and Les came up and congratulated me it was just a crowning moment but I saw in the upper leftand corner of the room this woman who was scowling so driving home what do I think about this triumphant presentation no I think about that scowling face and and and I and I get home and my wife says how did it go I said oh

this woman was scowling and my wife said you're crazy you know she said was anyone else scowling No uh and then I said well I did get a standing ovation she said what is with you I mean you you you one little for all you know she had indigestion I mean you know what why do you personalize it and so that we tend to do that and and and it's um I I think it's the flip side of being being so uh sensitive to everything I mean we pick up on the tiniest little things and

and the tiniest little messages and we we can sense when someone's unhappy and they Don't even know they're unhappy we can just sense something stirring within them that that we have like it's an extra sensory perception kind of thing we we and and that's that's odd too because what do you do when you sense something you know something but you're worried if you say it you'll offend the other person or you'll take them AB you know and uh and that's kind of the world we live in and it's it's hard to get validation because you

don't want to Come across like you're you're crazy you know so so subliminally I've always known I was different in a good way and in a bad way and then and then along comes in 1981 I get actually diagnosed I'd never heard of attention deficit disorder I'd gone through uh College medical school residency training I was doing a fellowship in child psychiatry and I heard a lecture on this term attention deficit disorder if you had said that Add before then I would have thought it was a disorder of someone who hadn't gotten enough attention growing

up you know but then I heard this lecture and it was one of the great if not the great aha moments of my life because I wow I mean this is actually I'd always wondered is there is is is there a syndrome that I've got or there is it just for kids who you I I didn't left-handed kids whose parents were divorced and drank heavily I mean what You know and and then no it turns out that there's a whole research behind it but you know but the history of the condition is is also story

of misunderstanding you know the this used to be called minimal brain dysfunction you know whoa I wouldn't want to go for a job I am Ned hell I have minimal brain dysfunction oh come right in you know you're our kind of guy you know and and so it's been Mis but and in before that you know people say This is a new condition add what we call ADD ADHD has been around forever you know th 100 years ago 500 years there were there have always been children and adults who were particularly the way we are

you know creative original inconsistent forgetful impulsive you know there have always been such people and so it's not new it's just that until really the 20th century the lens through which it was viewed was the lens of Mor ity often Colored by religion so your diagnosis you were bad and may be possessed by the devil and the treatment was punishment usually physical punishment ridicule uh sometimes incarceration sometimes put to death because the idea was you were doing all this on purpose the devil had gained possession of your soul you were failing you know you know

the in the in in the challenge to side with the right side with God uh do your best and and and you weren't so that means means some Evil force had had gotten into you and you have to beat the devil out of the child and then if it's an adult some adult form of being beaten and and the that's how these people were crushed and destroyed and and what's particularly tragic aside from it's just a wrong thing to do we our tribe we have the new ideas we are the game changers we are the

people this world needs more than anything particularly now with ai ai can't do what we can do it can do Everything else but what he can't do because you can't come up with an algorithm for the way we think we we don't know the why we do what we do it's this unknown someone how did you do that I don't know you know that's the honest answer and so and so but but until really the 20th century the we were beaten abused excluded judged you know looked down upon and yet we persevered because that's the

only way we know we just don't give up as a group we just Don't give up and God knows why we don't but we don't knas down will get back up knas down will get back up and and uh then thank God literally I Happ to believe in God but even though terrible things happen uh thank God in the 20th century uh people said hey maybe it's not just a matter of willpower maybe it's not just a matter of God maybe biology plays a role maybe you know brain chemistry matters and then in 1937 most

people don't realize how long it Was ago a very Innovative uh doctor in Providence Rhode Island had a ward full of boys who couldn't be controlled outside of a uh institutional setting that normally they'd be in reform schools with euphemism for torture chambers and he brought them onto his ward in Providence he was a doctor and uh he had this bunch of boys who couldn't be controlled they were beating each other up they were screaming they were yelling it was it was chaos and he Was trying whatever remedies he could think of to help them

in changing clothing to lighting to nutrition to sleep and then one day he read in an unrelated Journal about the impact of amphetamine and um uh he said to his head nurse I I want to put these boys on amphetamine well she must have thought he'd gone around the bend so you're going to give these out ofc control kids speed you you know and particularly 1937 before anybody had heard of any of it Well lo and behold he gave these kids speed and in in in 30 minutes you saw Improvement where 300 years of beatings

moral intervention had miserably failed and it was a triumphant moment you know in terms of of wow there there is more to how we are in this world than God and the devil and uh not to Discount God and the devil but but there's a lot more to the story than that and this was incontrovertible incontrovertible evidence because uh And and far from these kids being lazy they loved this pill they called it their arithmetic pill because finally they could memorize these boring math facts it's not that they didn't want to in the P they

just couldn't anything that's boring we can't do boring is our Kryptonite we just can't do it not won't can't well give us amphetamine and we can we can focus it's it's analogous to someone nearsighted being given eyeglass now we can focus it it it's not that we Wouldn't before but it's that we couldn't before with the medication we could a lot of people don't understand that they they they still are stuck with this moral model still in 2024 they think all that child needs is a good beating or all that child needs is to some

good discipline and it and that's just wrong it's just wrong and it it it still happens with tan amount to child abuse I mean The Battered children throughout history a lot of them had Diagnosed add and and so they're being beaten and battered for something they had no control over um and it it it's the single biggest misunderstanding even today why why why teachers and parents uh uh scold humiliate and punish their children for something that children have no control over and the same thing for adults adults who for example in the workplace in certain

kinds of corporate environments being on time is like Next to Godliness you know and and we're not Good at that we're not good at being on time and it's not because we're lazy or irresponsible or all the moral turpitude adjectives that get hung on us it's just in our brain we have a qualitatively different sense of time than the average person in our world there are basically two times there's now and not now so you say the exam the paper is due next week not now and it's gone and and you know until not now

is almost now and then we panic and we get it done in in a panic At the last minute and unwittingly what we're doing is we're self-medicating because in a panic you put out a lot of adrenaline well adrenaline is chemically very similar to the meds we use to treat ADD so without knowing what you're doing you're self-medicating um and um but but but in the in the in the world of people who don't understand that they think our being late is evidence that we don't care and and so we get marked down or fired

what and uh the same thing for uh Filing and putting things away and being organized we think that's again if you're organized that's Godly and if you're not that's slovenly and and you know and so we want to get rid of the slovenly and and when you do that you get rid of your most gifted people what is more important to you business owner that you that you have everyone on time and neat or that you have people coming up with new ideas and advancing the world I mean if if you're in business Just to

display neatness and punctuality great you won't make any money but you'll feel proud if you allow add people their head and be late and be messy you'll you'll come up with all the bright new ideas that we come up with all the time it's very hard to convince people of that because so many people are stuck in this model of of of of Purity and godliness and neatness and and it's things that just don't matter that much but they come to matter to the People who have what I call attention Surplus disorder the people people

who are neat Freaks and and and and literally get physically upset if if if something is not where it should be I love your perspective and I agree with with with it so much you know it's why I started this podcast was to create a more balanced narrative around what it actually means to live with ADHD I think when I got my diagnosis I was so disheartened when I Googled what is ADHD And it said struggle with Focus struggle with attention struggle with disorganization it was all struggle struggle and more struggle and discounting those for

sure they are there sometimes right but from my experience and speaking to lots of other people with ADHD ADHD when understood and and managed can also be creativity and problem solving and pattern recognition and being calm in a crisis and being able to see the big picture And spot things that other people miss all of these things that I think make you a tremendous asset to society and the work place and and there are things you can't buy or teach but we''ve got got going for us creativity originality Drive entrepreneu entrepreneurialism Vision you can't buy

or teach those you have to have them the things we're bad at you can you can work to control and and minimize the damage they do but what you say is so true and I think that's How things are starting to change the world really needs Vision imagination creativity drive entrepreneurialism it doesn't need more neatness you know we're not screaming out more neatness and and um uh the sooner people real whoever invented the wheel definitely had add you know talking about outside the box you know and and some add caveman or woman you know say

how about this round thing oh that isn't that fancy isn't that wonderful you can roll And um uh so it just I love what you're doing we because we have the truth on our side you see it's it's not like we're we're you know some radical idea that's disrupting civilization no we're providing the truth that will open up the world to the people who can change it for the better who have been changing it for the better but not getting the credit they deserve um and but it's definitely it's heading in that very heartening to

me because Even when I learned about it uh what 40 years ago there was tremendous stigma and people that said to me don't go on TV and say you have ADD cuz as a doctor nobody will want to come to see you you know and I said I can't can't I can't go through life lying about something that's so important so I'd go on Oprah and I'd say I've got add and I love it and I didn't get push back I mean I people sort of wondered what is he talking about and then I began

to Tell them and then the next thing you know it's still happening people raising their hand out of you know all over the room whenever I whenever I get called to give a talk at a business I know what's going to happen they'll they'll have an audience of let's say 100 people and uh I'll ask being who of you has ADD and three hands will go up after the lecture the whole room thinks they' got it because you know because it's just a matter of of framing it in a way that Isn't just pathological you

know and I say to them you know I list off the good part and then I say you know and your your your troubles are are fixable and uh and and the shame that you have been made to feel since you were in the first grade it's not you you know the the society should be ashamed not you you're teacher who who shames you should know better and and uh I mean so the the whole room start I mean it it's a wonderful thing to see someone get Diagnosed with ADD because you're you're setting them

free to Fly High I mean right now the biggest undiagnosed group are adult women and I love seeing these women because they come in almost invariably in the past they've been diagnosed with depression or anxiety or both that's almost invariably the the diagnosis you get if you're a woman you go to at least in the United States and and U uh what what I say to them is say you know you're sad and and Anxious because you have this untreated condition if you're walking around waiting to be called out over and over that makes you

anxious and if you're underachieving that makes you what looks like depressed but in fact I'll say to them you're absolutely brilliant and you've got an amazing imagination and they're they've been they've been lied to too many times they they'll say something how do you know that like prove it how How do you know I say well I'm ready to prove it I said well your vocabulary your appreciation of irony your sense of humor how you took in everything in the room the minute you walked in and sat down and made comments you have to be

pretty smart to do that then they start to cry say my God nobody has recognized me I've been and and they they weep and but then it's a whole new life life a whole new I can see them just rising up in Front of me their their Spirits are rising and they're ready to soar which is what they should have been doing all along and and and that's why I love my work it's like giving someone using the knowledge we have new life and and they boy do they ever take it and run with it

you know so so um um you know it's it's an incredibly liberating diagnosis and and not what people used to think of it is that it's just spin doctoring it we are the Biological proof we have now is is very strong that there's no biological test people think that brain scans will diag know it won't but it gives you evidence that is incontrovertible that this is a a biologically based genetically uh transmitted condition and um there are some non- gentic ways of acquiring it but that's a distinct minority of of the cases there's a whole

generation of particularly women who are realizing you know they've spent their life being told That they're too much or too sensitive and now they're realizing there's that reason and that validation that comes with that and it was that they a jitterbug that they're they're a dumb blonde that they're you know that they're I had one patient whose father told her you have no more sense than a jbird and she grew up feeling and she was brilliant absolutely brilliant but this father just laid this horrible insult on her and she was so sensitive She took it

in Incorporated and believed it and when I said to her you know in fact you're brilliant I mean the woman you could just feel the the weight of of scorn and ridicule and self-contempt that she'd felt for all those years beginning to melt away and it's just it's a wonderful thing to see but it's it's infuriating that she had to suffer all that for so long that she had to be that misunderstood for so long and it's A terrible feeling to be misunderstood it it just because and if you try to explain it some oh

yeah yeah yeah they they they they won't believe you you know so so you you what happens usually is you develop what's called a false self you learn how to pretend to be normal you know and quote unquote normal and and and the real self goes into hiding and the false self becomes who you who you are well imagine you can't you can't be real how you can't fall in Love if you're not real you can't uh you can't really express your best word if you're not real if you're constantly clamping down the real you

you can never you can never thrive in the ways people should be able to thrive so it's very high stakes poker and that's why I'm so passionate about it it it it it it is so not just a quote unquote learning disability it it's not that at all it it is a way of being in the world that managed properly is is a is a tremendous Gift now it's a gift that can be hard to unwrap this doesn't unwrap itself you know you're born with this genetic setup you either have to lock into it which

is which is what a lot of people do or you have to be diagnosed have it recognized and then and then a logical way of going about unwrapping your gift um by the way there's no age limit you you there's well early we don't I tend not to diagnose it before age four but the upper limit there's no upper limit People think oh you're too old you you couldn't have have it my oldest patient was 86 years old 86 and after treatment he was able to write the book he wanted to write his whole life

long and then he died but he did he died a happy man because he he' achieved this goal that he'd had ever since he was in his 20s and and and and it's just it's I mean how wonderful is that and people think well it's medication no it's not medication sometimes medication helps But you don't have to have it it it's really a way of rethinking who you are where you've been why you do what you do and also of not being troubled by the most common answer in our world to a why question why

did you do that I don't know that's the world we live in we don't know how why we do what we do but we do it and sometimes it's disruptive that's called impulsive sometimes it's incredibly creative and that's called creative you know so so we have these New ways seeing the world that pop in and out of our brain sometimes we should suppress them but we can't other times they're a gift to the world what advice would you have for someone who's perhaps a little bit older they get a diagnosis and then they they want

to start that journey of unraveling taking off the mask becoming more connected with who they really are what advice would you have for someone who's who's trying who's starting that journey of Self-discovery my first rule is never worry alone so find someone who understand understands it to to talk to about it get information you know obviously my books I'd recommend the most recent ADHD 2.0 is has the virtue of being very short and then I did I I wrote another one that came out after that called ADHD explained and that's published primarily in Britain uh

because it's a British publishing company in the US most people haven't Heard of it but it's the most add friendly book I've written because it's it's short it's got illustrations it's punchy bulleted and ADHD explained and and that you begin with education You Begin by breaking new ground but you want to do it with someone because you your brain you can't you can't accommodate that much disruption that much reverberation it get you get confused and you begin to doubt it and you fall back into your old way of Looking at yourself so you need someone

there to be like a trainer like your spotter you know and and and to keep up with you as you're breaking this new ground and creating this new version of who you are um but then then uh then you can work with a coach to help you develop new life lifestyle habits you can try medication and and I think as long as it's not against your religion everyone deserves a trial of medication it it the Medication will not if if it does anything you don't like you just stop it you will say what if it

takes away my creativity stop it and your creativ your creativity comes right back if it if you turn purple stop it and you'll go back to your original color you know I mean and uh uh and and some people say well shouldn't I do a couple of years of non-medication treatment first and I say sure and and and those non-medication interventions will are Wonderful uh there's one I'm particularly a fan of the The Zing program which is using balance to stimulate the cerebellum uh but saying let's do two years of non-medication first is sort of

like saying why don't we do two years of squinting before we try eyeglasses you know why not try the proven intervention that'll make all the other interventions that much easier to do you know if the meds work then it's easier to do the Non-medicaid to the coaching the whatever it is you're wanting to do if you can focus then if you have the benefit of the medication why wait you know it is just like saying let's do squinting before we do eyeglasses knowing that if the meds do anything you don't like anything you just stop

them and it's gone it's not like surgery you know which is irreversible you know you're you're doing it's very analogous to eyeglasses um in the most in the most Basic terms what could the right medication do to the ADHD brain from taking it to where it is to where it could be Focus I mean everything you do in life other than sleep is improved by Focus everything not just school work your golf game uh your your ability to have a conversation at a dinner party uh your ability to you know to remember what you need

to leave the house with before you the add way of leaving the house is you have to leave five times You have to come back to pick up what you forgot you know and and if you're on the meds you don't have to do that so so it it's when it works it just makes life uh a lot easier and and um and and you don't have to be and you and you don't have to live in a state of of sort of low-grade Panic what how am I going to f up next you know

how am I going to embarrass myself next and that's a hard way to go through your day and but that's what adults with undiagnosed Untreated add you live with and you know and and uh you know what am I going to say to embarrass myself or what am I going to say or do that someone's going to call me out on and and you know I to this day I I live in a certain amount of fear of how I'm going to misspeak what am I going to say that will um upset someone particularly in

today's world where woke and PC and all that is so important and so rigorously if not viciously enforced It's dangerous out there you know so it's dangerous to be add it's dangerous to be real you know it's you know it and and um you know but I it comes back to however you unwrap your gift that's up to you what I do in my books is I provide a menu of of approaches that have worked that I know have worked some have a better track record than others um but but the main thing is to

begin to Approach life and yourself with positivity you know I'm working on a new book and the the title is you're better than you think you are it's not about add per se but it's but so many people who think less of themselves than they should uh and and they're they're just one dose of of positivity away from thriving and and being happy and yet they're stuck in this uh I've I've worked out a a whole app uh through this group that John Maguire and a group Called Hallowell brain health and it's an app that

you you can use that will you know it's obviously not expensive that you you can you can get everything you need to uh overhaul your your life with ADD you studied at Harvard and you've got a fantastic education with regards to Psychiatry and an impressive experience as a psychiatrist um how much do we not know about ADHD oh my God so much so much I mean the brain is the vast Uncharted Territory I mean you know how 100 billion trillion cells I mean it it we talk as if we know about we talk about these

neurotransmitters as if we know we don't know what they're doing we don't know you know we we it thank thank God in many ways we're still free you know we're we're and as long as you remain humble that's good as long as you stick with the phrase I don't know but let's try and learn then that's great what what you got to be afraid of are the People who who uh who have the answers I mean I I like the little prayer that goes Lord help me always to search for the truth but spare me

the company of those who have found it you know and whether whether you talking philosophy or science you know that and the brain is a great example we know a lot a lot more than we did in the days of of medieval you know believing that God and the devil were cause of everything and Free Will determined Everything we're Way Beyond that but we're so far before knowing what this it's the most amazing thing in the world this is the most amazing Contraption in the world and and we only understand business but thank God we're

now approaching it with open ended curiosity instead of these blinders called you know God and the devil and virtue and all this gobbley that just shames people shuts them down reduces their curiosity Fills them with fear that is horrible and we we've blown a lot of that up and and you know now our driving force curiosity can roam far and wide because there's no forbidden question there's no forbidden territory and and that's the way life should be this open-ended adventure and finding out way because a lot of most of the stuff we find our discoveries

are by accident you know the the one that I'm most familiar With recently The polymerized Chain Reaction which nobody's heard of but it next to the double helix is probably the most important Discovery in B biology in the past 50 years and the man who uh discovered that won the Nobel Prize in chemistry has flaming add I should have had because he's in heaven now but he was a and and he the when he discovered this polymerized chain reaction that it changed everything he was sitting in a Car looking at a Los an California Sunset

with his girlfriend and the sunset was so soothing that the girlfriend fell asleep well he was nice he didn't wake her up so he just started thinking well into his imagination swam the polymerized chain reaction and he took a envelope from Miss glove Parton jotted out a few notes and in 15 minutes he had the whole thing and he woke up his girlfriend said we got to run back to The lab I've just won the Nobel Prize he was right he knew how Earth shattering what he'd come up with was had he planned to do

it no did he know how he did it no all he knew is it was catalyzed by his staring at a sunset in the presence of someone he really liked and boom you know whatever whatever process happens there he he has this Earth shattering game-changing Discovery and um all we can do to increase that happening is to set the Table to make conditions create conditions that favor that happening as opposed to prevent that but what is the main thing that prevents it from happening fear if you're in a learning environment or a working environment that's

filled with fear it ain't going to happen I mean emotion is the onoff switch or creat it learning and and if you've got fear and and and and and misery surrounding you you're not going to do your best obvious should be Obvious but but a lot of teachers and a lot of managers instill fear because they think that motivates you and and you know it fear works in the very short term but in the long term it it it peers out and all all it does is is is reduce your your your power from one

of your talks I remember hearing you say that people with ADHD aren't good self- observers what what why do you think that is and what led you to say that I I don't what made me say it is seeing it So often and knowing it in my own self you know that I'm a terrible self-observer you know we for I I don't know why it is but we we Mis we typically rank sell ourselves short we typically have trouble owning our genius or whatever you want to call it we have trouble owning the ways in

which we are specially talented specially gifted right it makes us nervous it's like oh don't say that about me you know I'm not that because we've been told for so long And treated for so that we're substandard or that we're misbehaving that we're bad you know and so and so we tend to see ourselves through that negative lens we we rare is the person with ADD who overstates his or her value I love it when they great go ahead you know maybe you'll make it come true but most of the time we sell ourselves short

it greatest line I ever heard about this came from my Daughter when I was uh when when 911 happened she was uh 13 and she's 35 now and I was asked to go on TV and make some comments about what to do in the wake of 911 well I didn't know what to say uh so I asked my daughter Lucy I said Lucy I've got to go on TV and comment about 911 what should I say and she looked at me she said Daddy tell people don't hold back on life out of fear said whoa

Lucy thank you it was the most amazing statement And and so spoton of what of why people don't do as much as they could do almost always it's because they're afraid whether it's asking the person out on a date that you don't dare ask out or trying out for the team that you or the play that you don't think you can make or taking a course that is a bit of a reach for you um it's fear that holds you back and and U you're better off just barging through fear and and maybe not getting

what you want than not Trying to get it um you know you you you you you miss all the shots you don't take uh and and why Wayne Gritz Gretzky American hockey player made that remark and it's it's a wonderful remark so take I I still I'm taking shots that I don't make all the time and I make mistakes and I get called out and I embarrass myself but I've gotten used to that and that's the price I pay for being me and but I've also learned to listen to feedback and say don't do that

when You're going in there you know um um you know so I I I allow people to help me you know a lot of people with ADD won't won't allow that because we're stubborn and proud and I particularly males often they'll they'll say straight out I'd rather fail doing it my way than succeed with help and that is St o o p IID you know what and yet and yet it it's made out of of Pride which is there's a good part to that too you you you you you want to try your best and

And believe in yourself but yeah we're we're we're terrible self- observers and but we need to learn to listen to others feedback what do you think the cost is um on others to the people around the person with ADHD if the person isn't able to self-reflect oh well it it can be disastrous I mean I mean the classic example is the addict who won't who won't who's in denial who won't acknowledge the problem you're you're Never going to get a handle on it if you don't acknowledge it um and that's another field by the way

addiction is way more common in people with ADD than non add and it's a fast fasinating it's a fascinating the basic reason is we are we are genetically our pleasure level is set lower than the average person so we need to resort to extraordinary means to get ordinary pleasure and the easiest way to do that is with a drug or or some activity gambling sex spending shopping Um or or alcohol cocaine we're trying to Pump Up the Volume that's we're always trying to pump up the intensity ordinary life just doesn't do it for us uh

bom is our Kryptonite we we can't tolerate it we can't do it we have to increase the intensity of the moment somehow well there are adaptive ways of doing that creative Outlet intimate relationship uh vigorous exercise those are adaptive ways of doing then the maladaptive ways are the The array of of of quote unquote bad habits or addictions we can be unbelievably stubborn particularly the males and and it you know it's a terrible thing I mean you you you you render your life that could be wonderful tragic and and you know the inability to listen

to other people is is that's why my first rule is never worry alone you know I am completely dependent upon a whole number of people I am so far from being independent and yet that's the Value every all these adults are trying to sell we want to be independent no you want to be effectively interdependent of course you don't want to be a leech but you want to be able to give and to take and and that's interdependent and that's the way it is in today's world the people who are seeking to be independent number

one they'll be unhappy and number two they won't do nearly as well mean what's more fun than connecting that's the that's The reward of being alive we're all going to die we're all going to suffer that whether it's a punishment or a reward who knows but it's going to happen so why not make the use that we've got now connecting is scary you're you're you're taking a chance you're risking something when you when you reach out but it's that is where the greatest pleasure in life resides and it's also where it's the greatest uh Factory

of new ideas is Is in in exchanging ideas and that's because other people see things you don't see and plus just emotionally it feels good it feels better than good it's that's the source of ecstasy is in is in human connection it doesn't have to be human it could be canine you you know the love of a dog you know but but uh uh to to hold back on that is like my daughter said don't hold back on life out of fear it's so it's such a shame and that you know where it comes from

is Early experiences of Shame you know when early on you're told that the way you are is just not right then you say okay I better cover it up and I better develop a secret self you know and I better develop this acceptable self that I show to the world I've had lot of gu I've spoken to 150 people thereabouts and a lot of them have got their own stories of addiction you mentioned addiction there so do you think the opposite of addiction is Connection it's certainly a way out of addiction a way out of

it absolutely a way out of it is connection I mean it you could say a drug is a form of connection it's just a very destructive one and and and it gives you a kind of pleasure that's elusory it looks like pleasure feels like pleasure and turns out to be the curse of all ages so so yeah you the drug tricks you into thinking you're connected but in fact you're Horribly but if you pursue connection of its own s then you you you won't need to have the drug once you get over the physical addiction

part then you will find pleasure in a new relationship a new project you know a new group once you dare to enter once you dare to show yourself once you dare to take off your disguises then you Cort you play you you tease you tickle you you you you you have fun together and that is sort of the only way we've got to defeat death You to defeat despair is to connect and and if you're in the midst of a connected conversation or relationship ain't no ain't no despair going to get in there you know

you may talk about very sad things but you're not going to despair is a solitary experience you know it it's very difficult you can feel sad with a group of people you can mourn as a group but you don't despair as a group I mean as long as you have an other uh you're you're you're safe from You're not safe from tragedy you're not safe from uh the bad things that can befall us but you are safe from the feeling of absolute abject emptiness hopelessness despair on the spectrum of ADHD what is an example of

moderate to severe traits on that scale well you know I I'm not a fan of ranking it people say do I have bad add good ad you know if you have it you have it and and what you do with it renders It good or bad you know and and uh um so I suppose severe is just add that the person has not learned how to handle they haven't learned how to put on the brakes you know they're they're still bumping into things so it it it's that they they haven't learned how to handle they

haven't learned how to build their brakes and uh and everyone can learn that it it takes some time so the people that look like they have severe ADD they just haven't had the chance to work with Someone who can help them strengthen their brakes there's if you have this condition and I wish I could just implant this in everyone's mind there is no reason to feel bad about yourself or about life and yet so many of us do the kids pounding their head saying I wish I weren't born with this brain adults out there saying

I'm just a loser no matter what I do I can't carry it off you know and and see that and we now know this is true that becomes a self-fulfilling Prophecy whether you think you can or you think you can't you're right and that's a fact now we know that by believing you can do something you dramatically increase the likelihood that you will do it but believing that you can't do something you dramatically increase the likelihood that you won't do it and isn't that amazing that that something as seemingly obvious as you you should believe

you could you can you can't that's not a switch you can turn On and off you have to work toward it you have to build the capacity to believe in yourself and believe in others and and believe in the goodness of life you know some people just for all kind of good reasons just think life is a relent LLY punishing experience and it really doesn't matter what they do and they think the rest is just BS you know and and uh their goal is to get through life and suffer as little humiliation as possible that's

that's a Shame because you know so how do you find confidence how do you find courage how do you find uh when someone says take heart how do you find heart where where where do you you go to Amazon and order it up no you find it in connection I mean that's where you find it it can be with a dog you know talk about dog dedicated my last book to dogs a dog can give you more faith in the positive Elements of Life than than anything you know so but but the thing to the

thing To absolutely avoid is is is disconnection is giving up uh some people call that the sin against the Holy Ghost it's when it's it's the it's it's rejecting the positive part of life it's saying it doesn't exist that's an illusion well then you you've pretty much uh cut yourself off from any chance of feeling ecstasy for sure or even just ordinary happiness and why would someone Do that why would someone do that why in the world would someone do that well comes back to fear and what are you so afraid of you're afraid of

humiliating yourself you're afraid of looking stupid you're you're afraid of being judged down you know so it it comes back to you're trying to save face you know and then these kind of very primitive but powerful powerful forces that act upon us you know that that my gosh if I could just go back in my own life and dare to Do this that or the other thing fortunately I've dared to do quite a bit and and you know when I was in 10th Grade for ex 12th grade for example I handed in a story at

the beginning of of of the year and my English teacher handed it back to me written at the bottom I can still see his handwriting red ink pen why don't you turn this into a novel I thought Jesus Christ I knew exor was a tough school I didn't know I had To write a novel well I didn't have to he I was the only kid he suggested do that so I was flattered but I still was stuck with how this this Mount Everest and and and I said Mr tralo was saying H how do I

write a novel he looked at me he said one page of time and I said okay I'll try and I did I tried and he would read it and comment on it and so he was like cheerleading me if you will and by the end of the year I completed a novel and it won the English Prize which which to me it was like it was like I proved to myself that I could do the impossible that once you've done that once you have proved to yourself you can do the impossible then you'll you keep

trying for the rest of your life I've been trying trying to do the impossible ever since usually fail but fail is it's not failed see success is keeping in the game and whether you win or you lose stay in the game that's success and I've Been staying in that The Impossible game ever since and and uh uh but but if you can if you can set someone up to and this is why you need coaches and parents and and friends for that matter set someone up to do what they think they couldn't possibly do now

you don't want to set them up to fail don't set four foot person learn how to dunk a basketball or something but but don't give up don't uh don't give up on yourself and if someone challenges you To do something that means they believe in you give it a shot you know be a Dream Maker not a dream breaker not only for others but for yourself try try to be a Dream Maker for yourself and and we break our dreams that's why because we don't we bad bad experiences in the past we sabotage we break

our own dreams as a means of preventing bad outcomes no the bad out the only bad outcome is giving up you know so so stay at it keep at it whether you achieve the goal or not Doesn't matter you've achieved the goal by trying and that that's a cliche but you you will feel the importance of it when you when you live your life that way um that that that is how we we defeat these these terribly empty States called despair despair or failure or you know as long as you you as long as you're

drawing the best out of yourself and and and often not knowing how you do it I mean that that's our secret add your secret is we don't know what we're Doing and and how can you how can you a something good if you don't know what you're doing well we do it do you think there's a difference in that feeling of Despair between the Sexes male and female in in everyday life I I I find women just being willing to say it risk it do it and and men are strong silent you know uh they

don't want to look stupid they don't want to come out of their Charlton hon pose or what you know they Don't want their John Wayne pose they want to they want people to think you know they've got it all under control and it's just such BS you know they you know what are you so afraid of sir and and but the women by and large uh are are not like that now they they but but shame is is the the female experience adult experience of add is all about shame they feel so ashamed that their

pocketbook is a mess or that they can't bring a guest into the house because They think it's too much of a mess they're ashamed that they're not not Martha Stewart and and my response to that is look sure you want to try to be organized but you want you the goal should be not to be Martha Stewart but to be well enough organized that disorganization doesn't keep you from reaching your goals so to that extent and we can help you get to that we can help you get that far so disorganization doesn't keep you from

reaching your Goals but um most women they'll they'll start crying in a heartbeat they'll show vulnerability at the drop of a hat I mean you know they're so much more emotionally mature than we men who are stuck in this save face caveman Paradigm that um that we should grow out of but you know but we're both male and female faced with the same issue of how do you how do you make meaning out of a out of an experience that has no Inherent meaning to it you know and and uh how how do you how

do you put work into something where you know you're going to die where you know you're going to be it's going to end where there's no guarantee where you may suffer pain along the way where where does the positive energy come from from and my answer to that is is from one another uh from belief in one another or from your dog and and but the the question is very Real how how do I take this situation called life and milk it for all it's worth without getting wiped out by the chance of looking stupid

feeling stupid getting sick dying falling accident H how do I get a bed in the morning life is such a dangerous experience well you got to trust and connection I happen to have a trust in what I call God now believe me I'm not pushing organized religion at all but I'm just saying I I Call it the invisible forces and the invisible forces if you Court them they they tend to come you know gravity is an invisible force nobody can argue that gravity is real well I think the in the Angels or invisible forces that

and I've been very lucky in my life that the angels have looked out for me because I I've I've taken crazy risks and done really stupid things and and I'm still alive you know and and uh um and it it you you trust in the in trust in the Power of whatever has taken care of me in the past will continue to take care of me and and statistically I should be dead you know there's a whole study of of people who have had the kind of childhood I had and and and we're dead usually

by the time we're my and and the reason I'm not is is this undefined group of positive forces that have that have looked out for me that I in no way earned or controlled it's not Because I'd worked so hard or I'm such a virtuous person at all it's because for one reason or another uh the Angels liked me and and and and uh and gave me certain talents that could Advance me in this world like my mission obviously is to uh tune people in to the possibilities of of having a wonderful life made even

better by this weird condition so erroneously called attention deficit disorder one of the concerns I get asked the most Particularly with the the women I meet is they they get the diagnosis but then they're quite fearful of of telling people about it because they feel like there's this camp out there this group of people that think everyone has ADHD these days so if they disclose it whether that's at work or to their friends or family it's going to be met with a bit of an eye roll do you have any advice for someone who has

that fear after they get a diagnosis yeah don't Don't disclose it until until you know the person you're with won't have that reaction right now in the workplace I tell my adult patients don't tell people you can name the symptoms that you've got uh you can say well I'm really good with ideas I'm not so good with details but uh but don't give the label add because still unfortunately most people will think that it means you're unreliable you're unpredictable you won't be there when the chips are down All the stereotypes misconceptions about add so don't

tell people unless you know they know better un unless and so then you can tell them but there's no need to tell anyone you have this condition um as long as you tell tell them who you are what you're good at what you're bad at that's all they need to know um and and unfortunately most people still including the people who have it don't understand what ADH even the people who have it they don't realize the Possibilities they're walking around with the power they're walking around with they often feel the op they feel disempowered by

having it and and so you know a lot of my job is is you know is an old line meet them where they are but don't leave them there so I meet them where they are but then try to move them to the promised land and and honestly life with add that you know about that you have some it's it's it is a wonderful experience I mean I love my Life that is not to say I don't also have moments of deep sadness and deep Despair and deep uh I get into these very dark black

spaces but I know how to get out of them and I know their self-deception you know so it's not like I I think I you're fooling yourself Ned you suck life sucks everything sucks no I I I can I can realize that particular Beast is is a sham um and and then the things I'm good at my natural innate enthusiasm can take over and bubble me Up you know and and uh and and and it's it's wonderful and I I I thank whoever is in control for giving me this this this Force within that I

don't have any control over that that's there for me you know and and I hope hope I can give it to other people and you know as you're doing with your podcast to so many people out there are living lives where they are they are misunderstood and they then understand themselves in a negative Way and that's preventable you managed to come to any theories as to why from an evolutionary point of view ADHD brains might have evolved well you know the Tom Hartman wrote a book called The Hunters in a farmers work world and and

his idea was that we're the hunters the add are the hunters we're the rule Breakers the adventurers the Risk Takers and um that had that had evolutionary Advantage because we we would you know see the Sabertooth tiger that's jumping out of the jungle at us where there aren't too many saber-tooth tigers anymore so the the the world favors the farmers who are caution and and predictable and you know don't go out in the rain and and um so he he thinks that the add Gene uh saved us when we needed it and it it we're

now it it's we're taking risks we don't need to take um you know I think there is something to that but uh whether it's true or not Whether there's an evolutionary advantage to it you're you're left with what do you do with it and and I believe and I think know that if you do the right things the outcome will be wonderful I mean we as much as we can suffer intense negatives we can enjoy intense positives better than anyone too I mean our up is way up and as long as we don't become Manic

and and crazy you know that's wonderful you know and and we can experience an intensity and then We can share it with others where others feel inspired by that they may not be able to replicate it but they can feel it and and um you know that that that's everything in this condition has two sides to it it's a it's a it's a syndrome of opposites like the lead what it's known for the lead symptom you have trouble sustaining attention well we also can hyperfocus better than anyone you know when we're into something we are

super Focused it's it's that when we're not into something our mind is buzzing around looking for something to light upon to get interested in and you know the the same thing about impulsivity if it if it if we do something impulsive that's obnoxious we call it impulsive if we do something impulsive that's useful we call it creative you know so it's all it's all two sides of the same coin you know and and uh uh for every negative there's a positive for every positive There's a negative and our job as owners of our brain is

to try to maximize the positive and minimize the the negative which can be done if you understand what you're dealing with you think getting distracted easily can be a good thing absolutely absolutely if I mean if you're in a stupid boring situation getting distracted is your Saving Grace it's like it's like finding something interesting in the midst of boredom well you may call that Distraction but next next thing you know you're calling it penicillin you know that's when the great discoveries happen you're feeling itchy and irritated and suddenly you see something oh look at that

that's actually more interesting this boring thing I'm doing over here so yeah absolutely there's a definite advantage to it you know even even though you may get called out for it fascinating Ned I want to talk about RSD rejection sensitivity dysphoria and Um how to manage ADHD correctly but first I want to draw attention back to the ADHD item on the table and ask why why a sports car is your ADHD item well number one it's sexy and I think of add as sexy you know I think we're we're uh we're we're risk-taking we're we're

sexy um we're break the speed limit you know and and and proud of it you know uh but as fast as we're going and what this car can't show is we have marginal breaks and That's what makes us dangerous if if you're a Ferrari or a Lamborghini and you're going 150 M an hour down the highway and you can't stop you're in trouble that that's that's when we get into trouble when when our breaks fail us and by the way it's a great way for correcting a child you have to correct them you have to

redirect but instead of saying you're a bad boy or you're a lazy girl say your breaks are failing you that's a mechanical analogy there's no Shame in it and you if you've already explained to them the analogy then they'll they'll get it right away and it it applies for adults as well your your your breaks are failing you and and that's when we get into trouble that's when our impulses carry Us in into dangerous places where we lose control um uh so the positive the Lamborghini the sexy creative Dynamic exciting speeding you know rule breaking

fun of contributing uh Brain can get into deep trouble if it doesn't have the ability to put on the brakes whether it's addiction or or lawbreaking or uh violent Behavior or you know just being a nasty human being I mean that those are all variations on on not having strong enough breaks fortunately number one once you recognize it okay I'm not a bad person once you get past the barriers of Shame then what do you do to strengthen your brakes well there are very reliable ways Of doing that the obvious get enough sleep exercise eat

right uh meditate or pray whatever your frame of reference is never worry alone you know have have input like that and then perhaps consider medication or perhaps consider the the cerebel or stimulation I mentioned earlier you know the the app that we've produced Hall brain health.com you you can you can access the the exercises that that can help um those are all ways of of of of Strengthening your breaks so you don't have to suffer the I mean Russ Barkley one of the great researchers in the field has shown he's run the numbers undiagnosed untreated

add costs you on average 13 years of life that makes it more dangerous than cigarette smoking um you know another one that's more dangerous than cigarette smoking no one ever mentions it's social isolation that's why connection is so Important this social isolation is bad for you dangerous toxic you die young a lot younger and people at first didn't believe that Lisa burkman showed this over 25 years ago and the study has been replicated over a dozen times around the world so so both both disconnection and U um um not having the condition recognized and treated

are dangerous what about overthinking that Kind of that racing mind the the sort of Ferrari Lamborghini mind that can cause overthinking and therefore cause this sort of paralysis this inability to do what you want to do any sort of MOT for that well this is gets us into we haven't talked about this but the the the the uh the U different networks in the brain uh when you're engaged in doing something productive the network there is four different regions of the brain That are running the show is called the task positive Network that's when you're

writing the story when you're baking the cake when you're uh having the good conversation like right now you and I are in the tpn the task positive Network well when the task is over when the project is finished the tpn shuts down and what Rises up in its place is called the default mode Network the dmn which I call the the demon for the following reason in those of us who have Add the dmn tends to spew out just a string of negative feelings images thoughts you're stupid you're boring you're ugly nothing you do works

all those mistakes you've made that means you're just a worthless piece of poop and and nobody's going to like you and how can you even like yourself and how can you even get up in the morning and how can you go out into the world you know being such a f such a phony every everybody sees it and and you you you're A sorry excuse for a human being and you're you're sitting there just being pissed upon the way you would never do to anyone else you're doing to yourself and and and that is is

is the worst part of this condition I have a colleague who treats a lot of ads she wants to write a book with me but she I think this is the the worst part of add is the default mode Network now why you would say why would you allow yourself to stay in this in this Horrible line of fire well remember I said earlier we're always looking for stimulation well pain is the most stimulating stimulus we've got if you put a match to your finger you know you'll pull it away well emotional physical mental pain

is is the equivalent of physical pain and and we we glomp onto it because it's stimulating see it it's the antithesis of boredom it hurts like hell we hate it but we also glomp onto it because it is Stimulating and that and that our our reigning search is for stimulation even if it's horrifically painful and that's so what you need to do in order to break it medication won't work by the way uh you you need to learn the skill of detaching from it and the way you do that the the dmn it's it's fuel

supply it's oxygen is your attention as long as you're rivited you know you you you will stay in the dmn um see contentment is Too bland you don't say he was riveted in contentment but you do say he was riveted in pain you know and so that the dmn holds you that way so you need to shut it off and the way you do that is by changing the subject hard to do because the dmn owns you it's very sticky so you need to have other activities other stimuli that you can turn and you have

to have it known in advance because in the moment you won't be able to think of them uh that you can Turn to loud music physical exercise intense conversation intense connection um uh uh creative activity um anything that you like if you're a master chef coming up with a new recipe if you're a gardener go out into the garden something that is stimulating enough to shut off the the connection to the to the painful stimulus and learning how to do that is a big deal in the world of add learning how to a recognize what

it is it's not reality It's the dmn and and then and then shut off your attention to it you're in a relationship and you know your partner struggles with these intrusive thoughts these negative thought processes for stimulation is there anything that partner can do to help their partner oh explain to them what I just explained to you it's very liberating I mean I I don't think there's any single Insight that my patients have not benefited from more than to say this is not the truth That you're uncovering this is not you know face it you're

just a bloody loser no this is your mind deceiving you this is a losery and and then tell her or him we have we've learned this from fmri this is this is hard data from watching the brain in action and and and so we know this is not some Theory this is not some conjecture you know that this is proven fact that that uh uh so you are buying into a a a false uh presentation by following the dmn and believing in it So so tell her or him when that happens let's go do something

fun together you know let because nothing is more intense than being with someone else let's go let's go for a run together let's play a game of tennis Let's uh uh whatever you know and and um um that will shut off the that will shut off the uh the dmn right there so and it's a great question because so many people particularly with ADD suffer such Intense misery in these sort of loculated periods of time loculated meaning separate independent Island like without connection they they're unable to put an end to it well if you teach

them about this then then they can signal like okay I'm heading into the dmn you can say let's go do something or let's go have sex or you know something to you know to stimulate the situation and next thing you know you the dmn shuts down and and Boy what a relief that is you know it's a and once you learn how to do it then you don't leave in fear of it you don't live in fear of the the demon was what I called the dmn and and it's a wonderful Victory you know somebody

say you can't do that you know it's life you're up against metaphysics no you're not you're you're working with Biology uh and and biology can be used against you or it can be used for you and the part that you have control over that the part of Your brain that can the ego whatever you want to call it that calls the shots instead of giving in saying I'm helpless in the face of the DM men said no [ __ ] that I'm pardon my language but I'm not helpless in the face of that I can

do the following things and I and I've learned how to do them and so I don't have to suffer the the way you know I have suffered so much in my life and that's another thing we we suffer a lot because of these sensitivities you Mentioned the RSD and we have we have Paths of of misery that we that we walk down habitually so we need to learn how to walk off that path and walk down another path um what about if someone's lying in the middle of the they're trying to sleep and then those

intrusive thoughts come come into their mind then and they're lying in bed and suddenly they can't stop thinking about how much of a worthless piece of [ __ ] they are they can't sleep because Of that and it's too late to go for a run or it's cold outside do you have any advice for someone in that particular yeah change your physical state take a shower uh don't have to go for a run but get up and walk around uh just moving will change your brain chemistry you don't have to be vigorous but uh walking

up and downstairs your your brain chemistry will change dramatically uh the worst thing to do is just to lie in bed Helpless you sort of said you might as well just say okay have at me you know just ruin me eviscerate me because that's what it'll do you're lying there passively and it'll just rip you up and down and and you're lying there passively is basically giving it pass it permission to do it so so and it can feel that you have no power because when the dmn is in full force it all body mobilizes

you so you got to take every ounce of strength you've got and get out Of bed you know and go to the bathroom and splash water on your face or slap your face or some kind of stimulation that you know that that or get angry or you know um um you know put on some loud music and put on headphones so you won't wake up the person you're with what you you can bring it to an end uh the worst thing is to believe that you can't or that you deserve it that's another one that's

another one because we as a group can can tend to have such low Self-esteem that we we think we deserve punishment and that's and that we're you know maybe we acquired that as a child wherever we acquired it there's a tendency we have not to stick up for ourselves with ourselves we we tend to accept whatever punishment dish out and we shouldn't it's the dmn doing that it's not you whatever you is let's face it you is a collection of many different 's and and so some of those you are piss poor not allies you

know and and uh for Whatever reason you know there's parts of all of us that don't have our best interests at heart you know that that that lead us into terrible situations that it should lead us away from so you're all of you is not always on your side so you see you want to you want have your healthy side take arms against your self-destructive side your unhealthy side the side of you that's not rooting for you and uh and you can do that but you need to line it up that Way so many of

us when it comes to our inner lives we think we're the victims of Fate you know that this is who I am this is my temperament this is my genetics I have no choice to some extent you have no choice but to another extent you do have a choice so try to exercise however much Choice you've got to uh to bring um to bring under to bring the demons under control and and to not think that you're the victim of a terrible science Experiment so fascinating yeah I want to do the ADHD agard section next

yeah um it's called The Washing Machine of woses okay I asked my community to send me their biggest ADHD wos and it goes in the washing machine because my ADHD item is is a washing machine because I always forget my laundry in the machine you forget your laundry in the machine oh yes oh yes alone I'm getting better because I'm using the Teemo app which is the sponsor Of the show but this week someone's asked I'm pretty sure my wife has ADHD and I've told her as such but she takes it as an insult I

think she'd really benefit from a diagnosis but she doesn't want to talk about it how can I convince her it's for the greater good truth I mean give her examples of of of being Nobel Prize winners game changers the most innovators most entrepreneurs I mean her her her belief is rooted in ignorance and rumor and bad Things people say about you you know and and so the the the antidote is truth and and Truth is very much on our side yes there's a downside to this but the upside is so much bigger and and and

what we've got going for us you can't buy or teach so you're you're lucky in effect that you have this and then we can help you get past the but we can't help you if you're sitting there with your head in the sand saying is's no hope and that this is made up and so you Got to come at her remember meet her where she is just don't leave her there so you meet her where she is you EV validate all her fears you validate say I understand you have these feelings they're very real I'm

not saying they're unreal or they're stupid at all uh but I'm I'm saying you know there's some facts you're not taking into account and if you did take them into account these other things would look a lot different you know so I do this a lot a lot of People who come to see me adults come to see me um come because their spouse is at wit's end and saying if you don't go see hell I'm going to leave you you know so and so and so I'm been given this sort of very volatile to

but the the Mandate is convince them that what they've got is good not bad and so I've I've gotten pretty good at doing that but it always starts with meet them where they are tell me Give Me Your Best Shot and and he'll say this is just a Lot of [ __ ] and you you guys you don't know and and I I hear it through and I say okay you know and uh let's begin you know inch by inch fact by fact and see if we can't you know dismantle your your your belief system

that's brilliant thank you very much yeah a topic that comes up time and time again on this podcast is RSD we've mentioned it briefly rejection sensitivity to disphoria um I think it be very familiar With the listeners do you think RSD serves an evolutionary process well yeah I mean like like every it's always positive and negative you being super sensitive there's a definite positivity to it you can detect a little you know Branch breaking in the forest you hear it and it's actually a saber-tooth tiger coming to eat you up so being exquisitly sensitive has

its Advantage but the disadvantage we perceive as danger what isn't dangerous At all you know I mean uh my at the end of that lecture my seeing that one woman who was scowling my interpreting that as an attack on me is just so stupid you know but but we losing perspective we we do that and and um and and we become convinced of these really sad unfortunate stupid ideas so I think you be you begin by being open to the fact that we have it in our in ourselves to be really stupid Really poor self-

observers in in a way that that that is very destructive I me we sort of snatch defeat out of the jaws of Victory you know we we take our wonderful life and turn it into a sucky life because we we buy into these these we misinterpret these you know it's like someone says to me I like your tie and I'll say you mean you don't like my shirt you know I mean you know it it's we we can turn even a compliment into you know into some possible Negative you know and uh so but again

it comes back to education learning learning how to combat this stuff uh you know hoping is hoping is Good Hope is wonderful but hope is not a strategy so you need a strategy to to bolster your hope to implement your hope to turn it into something effective what do you think ADHD looks like if it's managed wrongly oh it's the prison population it's the white crime it's the people who you know perpetrate evil and wrongness In this world you know it's a it's uh the people who who think uh their addiction is their only chance

for pleasure in life you know the the people who uh uh who who hate themselves so much that they don't see any point in trying to take care of themselves you know it it's it's tragic it really is tragic it it it's and it's rooted in ignorance and the loss of hope you know that that I I don't see any any hope and so why shouldn't I just you know do Whatever I want to do drink whatever I want inject whatever I want snort whatever I want because it only it gives me the very few

moments of pleasure that I ever get but someone's got to come along and offer you a better way you know like meet them where they are but don't leave them there and U exhorting that's okay but exhorting won't do the trick usually you they get too many lectures and exhortations too many Tony Robbins presentations Tony Robbins is a Wonderful man but what he's got to offer doesn't last you get all inspired and exercised and lathered up and 48 hours later you're back where you were you know so what you need is a tool that will

be with you after the exhortation is over so never worry alone is is a tool for example um knowing about the dmn and how to combat it is a tool for example so you're not relying on inspiration you're you're relying on on tools and strategies that that will pull You out of the sloth of despond you know and if it's managed correctly what does ADHD look like Nobel prizes you pure prizes you know uh successful podcast the best podcast going you know I mean Joy ultimately you know that that we are natural creators and and

uh to see our Creative Energy turned into a product that other people like that's pretty gratifying so so that's that's what it it it is you know properly managed successful love you know love That that goes back and forth and is not misunderstood misinterpreted or disappointed uh that sounds hard to come by but it's really not if you if you are open and honest and and and aren't judgmental I mean you know for all morality is is a good thing and blah blah blah it Fosters a judgmental approach to life that is just horribly pain

inflicting you know and and it's just it just it it's it's a great example of a system that is Well-meaning that people defend to the and of their lives that I think does more damage than good you know it it it it people end up feeling ashamed every day for no good reason because of the Judgment of other people and um um you know who of us is without sin I mean who is this who of us is Flawless none of us is Flawless so why don't we leave the judging to other powers invisible forces

and not assume judgeship ourselves you know I mean it it just is very damaging And and what makes it worse is people are often self-righteous about it I know I have the sword of truth in my hand or whatever and and and as a result people are miserable and then and then people get offended and then they get hurt and then they go to war you know that's what war you people say I demand Justice what they're really saying is I demand Revenge you know and that's this that's the history of the world hurt followed

by hurt followed by hurt I wrote a book About forgiveness of all my books that is sold the least it's a tough sell if I want if I want to write a bestseller I should write a book called get even that would fly off the shelves you know I mean that would just be a huge bestseller you know it's natural it's it's it's reflexive in us to seek revenge when someone we love has been hurt or when we've been hurt it just it's natural so what I say in the book and I say to people

okay you've Been hurt horribly hurt unjustly hurt or someone you love husband what do you want that pain to turn into and the immediate response is someone else's pain I want them to hurt as much as if not more than I do and godamn it I'm going to put him in an electric chair or I'm going to hang him or I'm going to you know you know haunt them or you and then I say is that really rewarding to you to have someone else hurt as much as you Hurt what's the reward in that it

it it's it's it's pretty pretty bad you know and and then if they think about it they'll say well what should I want what's a what's a better thing than other person suffering pain my answer is growth you know have your pain turn into your growth you you grow big enough to uh see the futility and ultimate destructive nature of Revenge it's what keeps Wars going it's what keeps feuds alive you know that the giving into this Very primitive natural feeling of I've been hurt or someone I love has been hurt and I want to

make that person hurt and then we throw in the criminal justice system I demand Revenge which really means I demand you know I demand Justice which really means I demand Revenge so we've we've built Revenge into the legal system and we quote an eye for an eye you know Gandhi's response to that was a great one you take an eye for an eye and Pretty soon the whole world is blind you know and and U so any any mod of wisdom uh discounts this kind of judging system where humans assume judgment over other humans it

it just we're not equipped to do it and and we're we're we're so subject uh for primitive forces to rule us and and right at the top of that list is is is is Vengeance uh most of the wars that have been fought the stuff we're seeing happening right now uh it's all about Hurt people hurting people you know that's a saying from AA hurt people hurt people but it's true you if you've been hurt and you're not careful you'll set about trying to hurt other people and and you got to have an an attack

of wisdom an attack of higher cortical function to say no idiot that's just going to make things worse well unfortunately there aren't enough people who are big enough to say that to themselves instead they they give in Their most primitive side and they they put a their time e effort money and creativity into hurting other people um because they've been hurt now if you what good does that do none it just continues the miserable story of of the world you know that we've been living for an awful long time it's time for us to stop

that you know and um and we have it in our power to do it's like we need to build our brakes we need to strengthen our breaks and and stop Giving into to our appetite for a blood bath I was reflecting on the washing machine of woes the ADHD AG AR question and the the damage that undiagnosed ADHD can do in relationships yeah what do you think the cost is of undiagnosed ADHD in romantic relationships oh pain destruction misery misery and death I mean you know it it is the biggest love killer you can have

you know and and it's a shame because we 0 years we are so romantic we are so Wanting to give and receive love um in general and and and to see it all mucked up by uh not understanding that you that you you are ruled by wrong judgments and um uh and that end up turning you against the person you once loved what's worse than that I mean you know obviously plague famine and pestilence is worse than that but in an individual life what could be worse than seeing love turn into indifference or hatred I

mean and and particularly if It's preventable and I would submit it's always preventable it's always preventable that isn't to say bad things bad unpredictable things can happen bad unpreventable things can happen but what you do with that is is is is somewhat you know up to you I don't mean to say it's easy it's very difficult being courageous in moments of Despair or or intense misery is hard it's much easier to lash out and blame you know that's why after something bad happens you you Know there always someone's got to pay someone's got to off

with their head someone's got to get fired or you know you know shamed or you know as if this is some law of uh life and it's not you know you don't have to live that way so I I hate it when when I I see a lot of couples and I I can tell you the diagnosis of ADD is absolutely relationship saving when someone says I I'm going to leave my husband or I'm going to leave my wife Say before you do that please come in to see me together and nine times out of

10 the person's add has not been diagnosed and diagnosing it and implementing a treatment saves the relationship because after all relationship began in a positive place you don't fall in love with you know someone you don't like you know so it it began with a a big ball of positive energy so so there was at some point in time something really really specially Good there and and and untreated a unreg ased add can tear it down and the other the partner says I'm I can't take it anymore he's always late he's always unreliable he never

keeps his promises he loses job after job after job I'm out of here say well before you leave let's see if there's a reason for these bad things happening that we can actually fix and reason I love my job is we can usually fix it and to the point of saving the relationship and and it's not That what we really are saving is saving the love you know keeping that ball of energy alive whether they stay together or not you know that that um it it's see you life is so hard and so difficult to

see genuine love dismissed is tragic particularly if it can be prevented if it can be salvaged and I'm in a business where I can Sal it's not I that do it but it's the knowledge I have that does it and and And Empower these people to do it and and um it's a great thing spoken to lots of relationship therapists and and there a commonality in the advice is that awareness of ADHD is a GameChanger for the longevity of a relationship and I do agree but on the other hand that doesn't alter the fact that

there is still going to be massive frustrations like you said you're still going to be late there's still going to be patience and arguments is there Anything couples can do to help even after they've got that awareness piece to help as you said Salvage that Bard absolutely you you've got to set in in plan a a program that will lead to change you know add is an explanation but it's not an excuse I can't say to the IRS oh gee I don't pay taxes I forget I have ADD that's not GNA that's not going to

carry the day you know so I have to learn some way to get my taxes paid and in my case I hire Someone else to do it by the way delegation is a great tool in in in our world but it begins with my taking responsibility for doing that you know that you can't just Slough it off and say I've got add so I'm always going to be late I'm always going to forget your birthday I'm always we're so bad self my favorite story illustrating how bad self absor I was doing uh cou therapy and

the the we're talking about division of labor and the relationship and the Husband had the ad and the wife didn't so the husband's pounds I do 50% of the work here I take out the trash and he thought that was 50% of the work you know it it just you know we were so clueless when it comes to what as actually going on and and so part of the work is to is to first of all get an accurate assessment of reality and then talk about and and in first in terms of devising Labor what

you want to do as much as possible have each person do What they're what they're good at or what they hate the least and then and then it sort of falls out and then you have to have a program for enforcing it if you don't do this you know and and the reason someone doesn't do it is usually not not that they're lazy or passive aggressive it's usually that they forgot I mean we literally you can say to me take out the trash and I'll will agree to do it and in the time it takes

me to walk over to the trash I've Forgotten because it's such a boring assignment you know so in the time it takes me to wash to the trash I've thought of something more interesting to do like make a sandwich or you know so you know so so you have to keep that in mind now that again that's not an excuse uh but it is an explanation so that's when you invoke your creativity and how how do you remember things how do you how do you remember things that you've been asked to do and that you're

not Remembering this is where the other person has to understand doesn't mean he doesn't love you doesn't mean he's an narcissistic jerk doesn't mean he's being passive aggressive it means he's got this Lacuna this hole in his in his memory system where if it's not stimulating it doesn't stick and um uh you know and and and so and that doesn't mean you should you should attach a painful consequence to forgetting but you have to think of some more uh Seductive inducement truly fascinating thank you so much Ned oh it's a true pleasure a very basic

question to finish but I think probably one of the most important questions how can one harness their ADHD to progress in their life you know my analogy is Niagara Falls you know add you think of Niagara Falls is just a a colossal amount of power and and and noise and Mist until you build a hydroelectric plant and then You capture that energy and you light up the state of New York so how can you build your hydroelectric plant and and that and it's it usually is a combination of uh finding a mission you believe in

finding someone to work with you don't do it alone um uh doing the may see we are best in a situation that we where we it really matters to us and it's very difficult we we we thrive on difficult if it matters to us if it doesn't matter to us get bored and and If it's not difficult we get bored with it but so that combination matters a lot to us and and is difficult like you're doing this pcket it's very hard to do what you're doing but it mattered a lot to you and it

it was difficult and then you found the ways to make it happen in other words you you you you found a way to turn on the Niagara Falls in you and and make use of that power that that unless it unless you'd found the right kind of thing to to do you wouldn't have You wouldn't have done that so how can someone find out what's important to them uh wonderful question um what are the things you'd least like to lose I guess would be one way of what would I be really upset if I couldn't

do or if I didn't have um and what is my most cherished hope off-the-wall hope um and if I could change the world how would I do it I mean those are the Kind of questions to ask uh no answer but what would I lay down my life to hold on to what not many not many answers to that question I was talking earlier with the Luke um when you become a parent you immediately would be willing to lay down your life for that child you know so that that matters the hell out of you

but uh ask these big questions that people don't usually ask what what would I die for if I could change the world How would I change it what would I least like to lose uh and and what I guess finally what's the gift that I've got that other people would want that it's worth giving you ask your average ad person they'll say nothing until they there's nothing about me that people would want there's nothing about me that I wouldn't mind losing I'm just a big bleeping loser and and so you begin there but then you

begin to discover oh No that's not so true and you have this secret hope that you've you've made so secret you've even hidden it from yourself and then you say well gee I actually would love to start a garden or I would love to build a boat or I'd love to start a company but I couldn't do that see that's the immediate answer I couldn't do that I could never start a company how could I possibly do that well you start by finding someone to share your Enthusiasm this not doing it alone is so important

uh because we get we get we get tired of things we get bored quickly so we're good at beginnings and endings but the middle which is where the real work is done we don't want to do that because it's lost its novelty so so yeah I mean that would be those are great question people don't ask these ultimate questions often enough and they're they're they don't necessarily have answers but the process of thinking About it is good for you and can can lead yourself to places where you know you you can make important decisions you

know got a closing tradition Ned on the podcast where I H where I hand you deliver you a letter yeah and the letter is from the previous guest oh no kidding prev guest to the next guest so I I open the letter the yes the previous guest wrote three rules to live by and the idea is I deliver the letter to you and you read what the previous guest right Three rules to live by be yourself always never change for anyone always be free strive for financial personal Independence and give no [ __ ] you

you'll never see people again so say what you want and be who you want that's great Ned this has been truly fascinating and insightful thank you so much thank you thank you and thank you for the incredible work you do I mean you know it's all about turning the World on to what this condition is really about and how much broader it is than most people realize and how much more positive it is than most people realize thank you so much we appreciate you popping in whilst you're in London thank you thank you so much

I'm honored that you let me and my Lamborghini come into your world thanks Nate thank [Music] you what's the most impulsive thing You've ever done oh my God uh uh the number of people I've asked to marry me I mean I I used to I I I I can't tell you how many women I asked to marry me on the first date and they'd always they'd always be sort of taken back first date yeah we're having fun why don't we just make it last forever and and and any of them said yes what no they

didn't even my current wife didn't say yes but but uh I hunted her down and Tied her down and forced her to say yes so but that was besides not one thing repeatedly thing the most impulsive single thing I've ever done well I'll tell you it it it's and it was completely unplanned completely impulsive and I've only done at once quit drinking 3 years ago for no reason with no provocation no support no plan uh no encouragement from anybody no group no nothing I just stopped drinking and Impulsively or I don't know how else to

explain and it was it's not like my doctor was telling me to it's it's not that but I was drinking too much but I'm a I'm a wasp and that was what I was born to do so I you know I I've been drinking heavily since I graduated from high school so through college I mean just I didn't show up for work drunk it wasn't like that but I was re I was relying on alcohol to give me pleasure uh daily and it worked it you know this It worked well the the bad part was

the The Hangover the next day you know or or or what I couldn't do you know uh and uh Sue thinks I did it she thinks unconsciously because I wanted to preserve my brain for the work I have yet to do she's probably right because you're usually right but uh but I had it was completely impulsive and completely unplanned and of all the things I've ever done in my life the most Astonishing I I if you told me even a week before I did that that I would quit drinking I say yeah and the sun

will stop shining I mean you know it it it ain't going to happen you know and and and and and there it did I mean so that's the most impulsive thing I've ever done what about unread emails how many unread emails on your phone oh thousands thousands one of us defin definitely one of us yeah no I mean it's just it's shameful I mean I feel very Bad about it but and then I lose them and then I don't respond to them and I don't know which is where and what's what and and and and

I you know it just it's it's terrible I I someone will email me and I and I won't see it cuz I I I haven't figured out a filter to keep keep out all the [ __ ] shitty the ones I don't want so so yeah I'm uh uh unready meals many what about when you go to the shop what about reusable shopping bags do you remember to take those with you No no I've got a big stack of them at home and says why do we why do you keep bringing these home take them

with you and I once in a while I'll be in the in the middle of the shop and I'll oh my God I'll left in the car I'll go running out and get it but usually it just I just have to get one of the bags the store gives me the other thing along those lines if I go shopping is if I go shopping to to get a quart of milk and I Whole Foods is where I go I will come out with $150 worth of groceries I mean I talking about impulsive I that looks

good that looks good the qu of milk I'd even forget I leave without the quart of milk you know but uh you know so I I am and the reason I am there's two reasons that I'm not a wealthy man number one is I invested we invested in the education of our children we we I added up how much we've spent on their education at $6 million that I would have today that I don't have because we invested in their education and the other thing is I am I don't know pathologically or or unusually generous

I I just give things away and and you you name it I mean I just Sue says I'm a shopaholic you know someone was housesitting for me picking up our stuff while I was out and he said are you are you starting a retail business because I all these boxes from Amazon on the porch and and so um yeah that I I I think it's I think it's Because when I was born my mother looked down at my eyes she told me this and and she said to me you're going to make us happy and

I think somehow or other that became my role in this world and I've really been ever since been trying to make people happy and and one way is by celebrating you know with with food and and drink you know and and uh and I I I really love making someone happy I mean that's My business and and I I I do it for a living and you know I I got to be careful not to become too much of a cheerleader you know because I what I really want to say is banquet let's have it

let's do it so I have to I have to tailor it a little bit to the person's individuality but uh yeah it's the biggest kick I get is to see people happy you know uh I don't mean to sound saintly it's just it's just a biological drive that I Have and you know my favorite book that I've written or written 23 books favorite one is not about add it's it's about raising children it's called the childhood roots of adult happiness and um I really nailed it in that book but the reason I love the book

so much is it's all my kids are in it the wonderful stories I mean the Tucker our youngest you know he was growing and I said Tucker would you Please stop growing he said he always likes to do what he told her to he said but Daddy I can't control my height my heess and at the same son we were driving in in the in the winter in New England to Thanksgiving and it was late at night and I was getting tired and Tucker from the back seat said I have to pee well I very

grumpily because I've learned not to ignore that request I very all right Tucker I pulled over he Like yes I pulled over into a snowbank I said get out and hurry up so he got out finally got back in I said Tucker what took you so long he said Oh Daddy I was writing your name in the snow with my pee immediately I forgave him and all the anger was gone I mean there's so many stories like that I mean the meded or Edward yeah yeah oh it's a it it just you know life should

be an ongoing feast and and But we need to feed each other I think that's where people that's where people miss miss the boat there's something people can be so reticent about so withholding you know and I'm the opposite so I so I feel disappointed like what have I done wrong why haven't I plead or how have I overstepped or how have I said something inappropriate which I do all the time you know but um but we I think we we again comes back to what Lucy said we Hold back on life out of fear

we we we'd rather rather not be wrong than be right because being right you got to take a chance not being wrong you don't have to do anything