692: Dark Shift

Merkel media welcome to the show everybody this is a special episode an episode that I've been working on for nearly 3 years in November of 2021 I sat down with a man who told me one of the most wild stories I've ever heard in my life and usually I don't have threads to pull at but this episode recording there were threads to pull at and I pulled at them and the more I pulled at the threads to Uncover whether he was telling me the truth or not the more I realized he was telling me the

truth and there were other people to validate his experiences now some of the people in fact many of the people that I spoke with so far many of them do not want to be on the show and don't want to be associated with this story he is willing to be Associated but he wanted his face blurred and his name changed in fact we have changed several Names from this story to protect the identity of the people involved but this is absolutely one of the most most wild stories I have ever heard in my entire life

we're going to be talking to Russ today about the time that he met a man named Ron and him and Ron became friends and some things happened that left Ron with no other options but to fill Russ in on what was going on in his life Ron spent years traversing Realms going to other places and working for other Entities this is something he started doing through the lucid dream state but then got so Advanced that he could do it immediately from Physical Realm to a spiritual realm instantaneously he has done this in front of Russ

And Russ comes on today to share what he saw and what he experienced with Ron remember Russ is not the only one that saw Ron do this and Russ is not the only one to convey that to me this is a story that is evolving over time and I am Constantly looking to pull up more threads to uncover more information today is an overtime episode where my wife comes in studio with me and Russ to talk about some of the things she uncovered as she was researching this topic and then on Thursday we are going

to be introducing you another character of this story his name is Derek and he is the brother of Russ Derek is intertwined with this story and has his own story of working for entities I sat Down with Derek about 2 years ago and you will hear that on Thursday as a members episode moving forward members will have the opportunity to have these recordings on a playlist for their convenience so without further delay let's get to Russ and this dark shift this was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed but no one

was supposed to talk about I saw three long bony fingers reach up underneath the door curl up to Grab it and then disappeared when he came over to me dude he slithered over to me and this giant comes out of the cave and they're all Frozen and he starts running and firing at this giant well the giant moves he's got a spear in one hand and he's running really fast and Spears Dan holds him up like this somebody else shoot him in the face shoot him in the face they basically decapitate [Music] him got closer

got closer got closer when he got about 15 y away from me I raised that 12 G and I blowed his head off I feel something pulling at my leg and I look over and there are two small gray entities pulling it and they're literally I'm getting pulled off the bed I reached my hand into this bush and I touch air couldn't breathe and I couldn't move cuz I know I'm seeing a monster all all right today we got Russ In studio Russ what's going on man uh not too much how you doing I'm good

man I'm good so just we're going to lay some groundwork here before we launch into things uh your name is not Russ your name has been changed several times publicly I've called you different names throughout the last three years or four years however long it's been it's been a while yeah I think it's probably been closer to three and a half four years Now and you you are here to record the the story that people hear about the story that I talked about for the first time publicly on Sam tripley's show where I talked about

you and Ron and that wild story that just lit a fire in people you're here to talk about it today and what we're going to do is I don't want to re release publicly the recording that we did the initial time because a lot of things have changed especially on the technology Side that we use and I thought it'd be best if I just had you come down here to the studio and record this in person on good microphones looking each other's eyes gazing into each other's eyes so um if nobody is familiar with what

I'm kind of hinting at you'll be very familiar in a few minutes as things develop with this story but just to let people know I heard this story before I even moved to Tennessee and it was the Genesis not the Genesis I would say but it was a very large launching pad for me into understanding that my assumptions about how things operate between Realms and things Crossing through uh were very accurate and you provided details as to not only how things can come here here but how people go there and it was uh it's a

wild story and what I want to do is start off from the very beginning because I remember when you and I sat down together you said you never had a Paranormal encounter until that one night you were with your friend at his parents uh building that that they were I guess renovating or something and you had some things happen there and what was crazy is that when I sat down with you you you said or when when I sat down with you I initially thought that's the story we were talking about yeah and and then

and then you go I have something else I'd like to talk to you about but if I put it in the email I thought you Wouldn't email me back yeah yeah I I um I only thought you would listen to me if I like showed you the book and stuff so I didn't want to include that on the whole Rabbit Hole till till you were committed yeah no I I I appreciate the however you rolled it out to me I appreciate it it was but it definitely um it set me on this trajectory because of

what I was able to confirm after we talked you know like you gave me one Heck of a story that people are about to hear but then afterwards I was able to confirm things through other parties that um have asked me not to release their information um but you know I understand some people that's not going to be satisfactory but at the end of the day I got to respect people's wishes and uh I asked the author if I could they said no and I will probably reach out again very soon to see if Minds

have been changed but still they'll still say No I think they'll still say no just like Ron so yeah uh let's get into this and uh talk about this wild story that for three four years people have been uh not so patiently waiting for so take us away my friend uh okay um yeah so the the the first experience that I ever had was was like you were saying um my my buddy family were renovating this super old building in this little tiny town in Michigan and um I went up there with them one summer

Um I think I think it was the summer before senior year it was a long time ago so that I anyway it was a summer and I went up there for a week um the building was really creepy and and weird already they they'd gone there like every summer for years so they were super used to it um but I wasn't and the first night that we were there I was inside on my own and um I was like close as to the outside facing The the window that looked outside and there was like a

squeak on the stairs on the opposite side of the room from me and uh I didn't look her back or anything I was like okay it's old whatever and then there was like another squeak and another one and it was like clearly the sound of like floorboards squeaking or whatever I didn't look I I I just didn't turn around until there was like a bunch of them like close together and getting Closer to me like it was just like a little squeak and like the first one that I heard and then it got like a

little quicker a little quicker and then it felt it sounded like something was right behind me and I thought it was a person so I turned around and there was nothing there and then as I was just staring at this the inside of the building the same like squeaks moved away from me just slower kind of and then I I watched nothing but I watched Like or as the sounds went back up the stairs and then uh that was it for that part and I was really confused so then I went outside where everybody was

and uh I didn't go back in for a while that night well it was it was night time when that happened the so we all went to sleep whatever um and they the building was was being renovated so they had like sheets for the wall walls like staple to the studs and stuff like that so there was no hard walls anywhere Me and my buddy were uh sleeping in this one Corner Room it was actually like right next to the stairs um but I I just woke up in the middle of the night to I

was like sleeping on my side and I woke up facing my buddy in the other bed and there was this thing leaning over him I I've drawn it before cuz I can this is a very clear memory this this thing it it was like rolling smoke in the shape of a sort of body like a definite like Torso and arms and it was it was like the the the skin was like rolling smoke and it was like hunched over him it's I couldn't see any feet it like trailed off in into nothing um and I

could see all this because it just happened to be like a mostly full moon that night that was like coming through the window so it was like it was all really clear um this thing was like leaning over him like a few inches from his face With its head and its its arms were like hanging over him I guess and the fingers were like really exaggeratedly long and pointy and uh it was just like staring at him while he was asleep and I that's just what I I opened my eyes and saw that and I

yelled what the hell um to loudly to the point that everyone in his family who was there woke up um But as soon as I did this thing turned and looked at me and that's the I can't specifically remember its eyes I'm I'm pretty sure they were like yellowish but that's the one thing I I but the the emotion in the eyes I do remember and it was so purely angry or or mad at me or it was so like viscerally mad at me for Noticing it saying something I don't know but it whipped its

head and looked at me and then in the next second it just like smoke shot out of the window and out like the the window that the Moonlight was coming from and then it was just gone in the air uh and all of this happened in the span of like a second and a half and then um so it took off I yelled what the hell it took off then he woke up everybody woke up and Like hey what happened what happened and I they were kind of uh Christian they're they're Christian and so I

didn't want to explain to them in the middle of the night what I had seen CU I didn't think they'd react well to it um so I was like oh it's it's just a bad dream and then um I laid there for a while after and then eventually I did go back to sleep and I I didn't see anything like that again Um I found out I told my buddy like the next day on a on our own I was like hey this thing happened and he was mad at me he was like I I

didn't want why did you tell me that I don't like this information really yeah he was like he was mad he was mad that I brought it up uh cuz he would just rather not know M and then um so then I was like yeah no that's fair um but then he ended up telling me about the building a little bit I don't know If it's relevant it's just weird um one there was like a the basement was like unfinished and it was like a used as a Slaughter room or something at one point it's

an old building like like a 150 year old plus building and uh it had like like the the basement had like Stone arches for the doorways and stuff like it was old old and that basement was horrifying it was just so just being down there was really really Sketchy and addition to that they they discovered while they were tearing into the building there was a room under the stairs that was like maybe like an 8ot by 8ot room give or take all white no way in or out no window and in the middle of it

was a table with a bag of Legos on it um and they accidentally busted a hole in the wall of it that's the only way they found it um no one knew what that was for ever and then I found out that during The process of their renovation there had been like three layers of of siding on the outside and the the deepest layer so like the the first layer had a giant metal uh Freemason symbol on it and um they gave it to somebody cuz I was like oh [ __ ] where's it at

and they gave it to somebody I don't know who um but I found all that out after this the the those two incidents that night and again I don't know if that's related I don't know if it's the building the the Building was weird that's that's all I know um should I stop talking so you can uh like ask I don't know how you want to do this you're fine you're fine it's no it's that's that's the end of the the story that I thought I was getting yeah and because Ian when I sat down

with you I was like this going be about a 20- minute interview and uh I figured because I have a you know back then I had like this whole list of like Growing file of short interviews that I would just Pace together and make one episode out of it that's what I thought this was going to be and and then when you before we started recording you're like I got something else I didn't talk about but you know whatever whatever um we're now at the point where I was like okay let me hear your other

thing maybe we can get a whole episode out of this you know that's what I thought and little did little did I know that you Were going to give me something that um confirmed so many suspicions and also said things that I had never heard before um so I guess what we'll do is we'll start going into that because I what we did what we just did was lay the groundwork of your first paranormal experience which was that weekend that you were there up to that point you as far as you remember you never had

any other crazy stuff happen right yeah nothing that I could remember so up to That point did you have any thoughts on the Paranormal I'd always thought it was kind of cool um but I hadn't experienced anything so I was like I I always believed that there was something that we just didn't know but I hadn't thought about it a whole lot at that time I was kind of more into like aliens and stuff not necessarily paranormal stuff yeah um and then I and and it will you know be revealed later but my brother we

grew up in the same house Where he had all of his [ __ ] from the time I was it was several years before this incident and we like lived in the same room and all this stuff and I and I had never experienced anything in there yeah um which by the way before we go any further um just so the audience knows because once you start we start this train moving forward um I'm we're not putting breaks on it we're going to let you just rip into every little detail you remember uh I want

to let the Audience know when you get when they get to the point where they're listening you talk about your brother I have already gone and met with your brother in person we've spent time together we've talked to each other yes we have recorded together that'll be released later this week and you I and him sat down had a conversation and he confirms everything that you're going about to you're about to say according to what he experienced and your brother is not the only Character in this story there's several characters so um I think at

this point I don't want I don't want to drag it out anymore I just want you to walk us into you had this first paranormal encounter you you never had any of thing before that you probably thought it was a one-off that's a strange house that's a a house issue not anything else issue and then you me you meet some people and become friends with them and they just yeah lifechanging yeah and there was There was one uh I guess additional little detail that I had forgotten until pretty recently in involving that like when I

first met this dude that uh introduced all of this to me we we were uh working together and I believe that was when he So eventually he he uh told me that like he he knew par paranormal stuff I guess is is how he said it and I was like oh that's Cool whatever and uh you're talking about Ron yes yeah and um so there was like one day at work I remember specifically because he had been he' made some comment about like he thought maybe I was important in something that was like all he

had said he was like oh maybe maybe you're important at this in this other area that I know about and I was like oh that'd be cool can you like find out and then there was a day at work and he was like speculating I guess He was like oh maybe you're a a treasure hunter in this place the the place and I was like oh that'd be cool like that's that's a thing and uh he was like yeah like I I'll look into it and then he came back like a week week after that

and was like um and I was like hey you know like you you learn anything else cuz at this point he'd been telling me little things about his life and and all this stuff before the incident that I'll talk about in a minute but Um before like before that so he was telling me kind of about his past and I and I was entertaining it so I I wasn't shutting him down so he like he kept opening up to me and we we were legit friends I mean like like real tight and um and he

was I he he was telling me that stuff and he was like oh I'll look into to see in you know maybe what what your role is in things and then one day he came into work and he wasn't talking About that stuff anymore at all when I when I asked him and stuff and um and I was like hey you know like what's you find anything about me or whatever and he's like yeah we're not going to talk about that anymore that was just how he said it and I was like okay um and

he never he didn't tell me why until later but when he didn't have a choice uh yeah yeah so I I I'd forgotten about that happening up until kind of recently so it's not in the Original um but I guess it's relevant knowing stuff now um but the big the the big thing that kicked everything off one night um well be before before you go into to that um you're so I just want to clarify what you're saying is he did lead on to him having some kind of involvement in something paranormal and strange yes

but he just didn't give you the details at that moment and the details came later uh yeah he only gave like like um re real minor stuff Wouldn't wouldn't name things and uh didn't tell me a lot about what he really did it was more like hey I know about this place and I know a lot about it and I am in contact with people there kind of kind of vibe um but he didn't tell me like his real involvement until he was kind of forced to M uh through other circumstances all right so so

with that said let's get into the story start us off from the beginning that night that Things went down what were you doing give us every detail you remember and then move us into this whole experience with you and Ron okay um so we had me and him had had um finished our shift get we worked at a restaurant so it was like it was like 2: in the morning maybe or 1 something like that and we were in my room um I was playing a like Battlefield or something and he and while I was

playing I kept asking him more details about this place and What he knew and he would be like Oh I'm not really going to talk about it whatever um so at one point he was like Hey I'm going to go uh smoke real quick so um he was just going to go up on his own outside but I was like I'll chill with you cuz I no reason not to so we go outside and I had like a porch that was like um cinder block walls on the on the porch kind of And so we

were both like sitting on that and while he was smoking um a cigarette not a drug so never ever yeah it it was a cigarette but so I as he was smoking I just I just looked up um into the sky kind of like up there was a hill basically that I was looking up over um and there was just like a a whitish like pulsing light it looked like a stadium light I thought that's what it was cuz there was like a little baseball field up there and it Looked like a stadium light kind

of just like pulsing in clouds kind of but it just stayed there it just it didn't move and it was bigger than it than it would have been if it was that Stadium it was a bigger light and I was staring at it for like minutes and he hadn't noticed it and then I was like has has that light been there the whole time and he was like oh I don't know what you want to go check it out and Um cuz that was kind of his um Vibe he's kind of just like go with

whatever and um I was like yeah sure so we we got into his car and he's not from the area so he did so I I was telling him like oh turn here turn here and we got into the car the place I thought it was was like 30 seconds from my house by a car so I didn't grab shoes I didn't have a phone nothing I we just got in his car and I guided him to where it was supposed to be and uh there was nothing there and But but the light stayed the

distance from us up in the sky and it just like a constant like pulsing every like like a like a fade in Fade Out Just pulse just just non-stop and it was big like like a bunch of Stadium lights all as one light up in the the clouds and but it stayed the same distance from us anytime it like when we try getting closer it just it didn't look like it was moving it just always moved with Us and and um we followed this thing out of the city and on the edge of the city

it turns into like farmland and stuff and we he stopped the car at one point on a county road that we had taken and we both got out real quick and just got up and looked at the light again that was still just doing its it it never stopped doing what it was doing it was just the same from us but now we had like there was just Fields between us And it and we both like looked at each other like what the [ __ ] is this and then on the other side of the

field there wasn't [ __ ] growing at this point it was just like a field that didn't have a crop in it at the time and from the other side of the field from us there was this really weird like a hyena sound like a like a couple of hyenas or something or something like that is what it sounded Like or or coyotes or something but they those are not there those aren't in that area um and it sounded like they they they made some weird like howy noise and it sounded scary it it scared

the hell out of me and I guess him too cuz he like we both looked at each other again and then just didn't say anything but Dove back into the car and we and it sounded like those whatever it was sounded like it was starting to come Across the the the crop to us like in the direction of us so we jump back in the car and then but we we took off and kept following the light like further out of the city cuz I don't know why and then we I I I think I

was the one that noticed it everywhere we were driving that we were following this thing the ground was wet everywhere but it wasn't raining anywhere it was just the the this route that we were taking was Always wet and it was not a Rainy Night eventually we got like 20 minutes outside of the city so like a half hour from my house and we were on another road but this now the county road was like pointing in the direction of this thing and it was a little bit closer than it had been like a little

bit closer and it just stayed it just stayed there and it felt a little different from how it had before I I don't know it it it was just a little bit closer and That was different for this we were out of the car again and my buddy who who is normally very jokey and happy and goofy he was like looking at this thing real hard for a minute and I was like looking at him looking back at the thing cuz he wasn't talking and he always talks and then and then he just looked at

it for a second and then immediately was like get back in the [ __ ] car and I was like What and then he was like get in the car right now we're going right now and I I was like okay okay so we got back in the car and he spun around this road and then just took off the way we had come and I looked in the mirror and this thing was moving with us again just following us at like kind of the same pace and then at one point it looked like it

was like starting to gain a little bit it was never close to us but it was getting a little closer so it was It I never thought it was like right up on us but it was like closer than it had been and uh he kept like he was like White Knuckle in the steering wheel I remember cuz it was like freaking me out cuz it it wasn't how he normally Act he was like kind of hunched over the wheel super tight and he was like looking at the mirror looking like at the road at

the mirror at the mirror and then um he was kind of like muttering to himself he's like I I how's it here I don't know Why it's here like what how I'm sorry I'm sorry and and I was like dude what what are you what is this what are you talking about and he's like is somehow it's here and it found me and I didn't mean for you to get involved in this I'm sorry and and that's just he just kept saying that over over and over and eventually I got I got him well I

was freaking out more than him at this point cuz I I I didn't I Didn't know if we were in like actual danger because that's how he was acting but he he told me eventually uh while we were still hauling ass back to the city um that this thing was an entity from someplace else that he had worked for for a long time and it wasn't supposed to be here but it was here now and it was after him is initially what he had said and that's Insane so I I I thought he was I

thought he was messing with me I thought this whole thing at this point when he started saying this I I was sure that he was messing with me like this was some weird joke that he was doing or or some I I don't know I I thought it was a joke so I was like dude just please stop this is not funny just just we okay it's done can we stop and he was like no dude I'm I'm completely serious call call my Girlfriend and and she'll she'll back up everything I'm saying is is what

he kept saying cuz he was just like at that point he was done with talking and he just wanted to keep driving so I called her again very late but we had all worked at the same shift so she was still still awake too and I called her and all I said was is is it true is is what he's saying true I didn't say what he said and she said oh the thing and she used the Thing's name that he did and then she was like yeah that's all true and again I didn't give

her any information he didn't talk she just knew what it what was happening and and I was still freaking out and I was like th please tell me like this was a coordinated thing you're just you you thought it'd be funny to mess with me you you can stop now like this was a whole thing a weird weird joke whatever And she was like No it's it's a joke it's it's not a joke do what he says he'll he'll make sure you're safe is what she was saying and I so I stayed on the phone

with her cuz at this point I I knew her longer so I trusted her more and I was still tight with him but I I had known her longer so I was just more comfortable with her in this moment cuz I still didn't know if he was [ __ ] with me but we eventually got back to my house she she met us at at my house we we parked in my driveway and he said I'll be back and he just took the [ __ ] off up one of the h i I lived like

on a Steep Hill so there was like a couple Hills that led into mine and he took off up one of these Hills so fast it was faster than a person should be able to move it felt like or an Olympian or something but he wasn't that He's just a dude but he just took off into the dark like like there weren't really street lights there so he was gone and then I was just standing there with her no shoes in my drive way in the middle of the night and I don't think I'd even

hung up the phone when she was like still standing there I I I didn't know what was happening we just stood there for a minute she didn't say anything I didn't Say anything and then from an alley behind my house there was this insane like scream thing sound that happened like it's like something got ripped apart how it sounded like an animal or something was just destroyed real quick and he walked out of that direction of that alley and he had he was covered in this weird I I don't know if it was like a

dark green or a black something but it Was like patches of it were all over his arms and his shirt and it was like a like all over him it looked like like dark blood it was super dark so I don't I don't I have a weird memory of it being like greenish but it might have just been I I don't know but he had this [ __ ] all over him and for him to come out from where he was or where he came out from he would have had to Sprint up a hill

up two Hills all the Way around the block and then come back in the direction of my house and then do something and then walk out of the alley all in the span of like not long at all and he he walked out covered in this stuff she never said anything and I was like what in the [ __ ] is happening please tell me now this I and and all he was saying he was like I'm tired the that thing was was put there By The Entity I think it was here to watch you

or to maybe catch me here it was it was something like that but it's gone now and I and that's really all he said and he was like I got I have to go home and so then they just drove home like while I was standing standing in the driveway they just left um I eventually later like a long time later later he told me whatever that thing Was was there for me or my brother after he learn information um and it was he described it as like a the only way that like a person

could uh recognize it I guess was like sort of like a licorice entity like made out made out of licorice the The Entity was like made thing not what we chased but what he killed or whatever yeah he said it was it it looks kind of like black licorice is what he was saying Like the body looks like back black L yeah like this thing just looks like that like black Twizzlers or something I I don't know that was what he said but he didn't say that for a long [ __ ] time after so

I all this happened in this ban of like I mean we I guess we were driving for like uh 45 minutes an hour total um and it was just such a crazy shift between like just having fun Goofing off following this light that was weird and then I guess we were in danger I still don't really know but he did and has that that was really all he told me um before we move forward into the next stages of this story let's just unpack a little bit of that first night I want to make sure

everything is kind of laid out properly you see a light in the sky it's pulsating you guys chase after it it continues to stay to evade you but it's almost like an equal Distance yeah uh at times it seems like it was closer than other times when you guys that that it only got closer when we were like out of the city and we weren't around anything and then I I think that was it's if this thing had a plan it was that to get us like real isolated that's my question yeah and then cuz

it was closer like when when we when we parked on that County Road that was far out of the city it was just a straight County Road pointing towards This thing and and that's when he got scared yeah that's I think when he figured out what this thing was or I I I have a feeling he knew a lot longer than he let on and he wanted to confirm it yeah um and then he realized I'm guessing that it that was probably its plan um I yeah okay so uh you guys are out there you

stop the first time you hear like the howling growling whatever it was across the empty field yeah it was Far enough away you couldn't see anything other than just hearing right correct okay cuz it was it was dark there there was like some moon but the biggest light was the [ __ ] thing we were following so like yeah we even at that point we were like just out of the city but there wasn't lights around so I I couldn't see anything but it sounded like hyena wolf coyote things and then it sounded like they

were tearing through the dirt like at us okay and Then that's when we got the car but never saw him I I I I don't want to spend too much more time on this I could start unpacking but this because of things that I do know now as far as the story goes and other things that I've uncovered so we we'll do that another time whether it's during this recording or or the overtime um but you guys are going back to town you're on the phone with her she confirms everything to you almost like almost

as if like it was old News to her yes and I and I that's that's part of why I thought it was a joke because she knew like immed like like they had discussed these details and like Hey we're going to [ __ ] with him these are the details that you're going to say to them um that's why I thought that okay so initially so yeah so you're in your mind you're trying to find logical reasons to and and you're like okay we're following this SL in Sky that's how do they control that and

but Everything else they could control and so when you got when you get back to your house is the first thing that was the wakeup call to you was his physical movement and how fast he moved is that was that what it was like whoa well it it's like a weird split in my head because the first time the the first time I felt like something was real and weird was when his personality changed when he told me to get in the car because it was not Like he normally acts ever he he never talks

like that direct and like pointed so that was the first time I was like oh this is different and then and then I was like trying to justify it I was like okay joke and then I would go back to like when he was freaking out driving I was like he's scared of something and then I was like okay maybe he's just acting and then it it confirmed it again when I called her and then a few minutes after that I was Like okay this is a joke and then we got got back to my

house and he just [ __ ] took off then I was like um I he a athlete I guess I was I was trying to justify it somehow and then the the the scream thing in the alley and he came back with this [ __ ] all over him and and then they left and then I was like that had to be something yeah right and so from my perspective trying to be in your shoes I could see how everything could Possibly be explained away except for one the light in the sky how do you

control something like that yes uh you probably could if you're setting something up to play a prank on you set something up to make noises and oh he's killing something but you described how fast he ran and I want to ask you you're in a safe place right now you can be honest with me yeah was it kind of like inhumanly fast as in like not just an athlete but almost like C America fast it it yes that's how it seemed like to me that's why it felt I it it didn't feel real I thought

it was like a dream or something at this at so many points in this because like these things are happening that shouldn't be happening he he took off from a for just he was just we were standing in my driveway and then he was just gone in this Sprint up a hill up a steep hill and then a few seconds later we heard him in the alley so the the route that He would have had to run there was no other option he had to run around a whole block up a hill a steep hill

and then back down the alley to get there I don't know of a person that could do that without anybody knowing details about like the specific neighborhood and [ __ ] I don't know how that could be done is this the same house that I went and visited when I was out there where your brother had had the Book yeah yeah okay so I can confirm that hill then it's a steep hill and then the one that he would have had to go up was a was it leads into that hill and that's even steeper

that's that's the the the street right next to mine that's crazy steep it's like a [ __ ] mountain and and he had to run up those and then around and down in a few seconds it's hard to Fathom it's hard to Fathom and he there there was there was no there was no way he could get there Any other way there was not another route that he could take yeah so okay and he and he just knew he just hopped out the car and just gone uh so that was your first night welcome to

welcome to uh the weirdness um Let me let me ask you this parting question from this first story and segment of this large story uh you guys go back to the house house you see him run like that you hear the killing he comes back in this like black bloody Sludge stuff uh first of all i' I've heard about it since and I'll talk to you about it then um but they get in the car and they leave he's tired they leave you at your house [Music] MH what were you doing at that moment what

was going through your mind at that moment were you able ble to go to sleep did you go in the house were you scared to be outside I I um got into my car so after a few minutes I just stood out There cuz a after I didn't realize it until we got to my house but at some point when we got back in the city the light that was following us was gone it didn't follow us all the way back to where we started like it it stopped a couple minutes I guess before my

house M and I didn't realize that until he was gone and I looked up and and it was gone um and then I just like stood there and then I just got in my car and drove to My girlfriend's house who hadn't worked with us that night so she was asleep and I just went in there and uh like laid down with her and she was like hey what's happened like she she was worried I I woke her up but um she was like are you okay okay and I and I I I didn't know

what in the [ __ ] happened so I I didn't say anything to her all I said was I I just really want to be here right now is all I said and then I just stayed there and I was awake For uh several hours after that just like awake staring at the ceiling I imagine yeah it yeah and then like it and then he gave me like it like not a lot of info initially like it's it was always always real spread out and [ __ ] so this this insane [ __ ] happened

and then he just kind of ghosted for a little while and then he came back around and was like oh you know little little little stuff here and there and then yeah so it Was never like we didn't ever really like break it down in a whole event it it it was like conversations after that that kind of built up to like explaining it I guess so so he he didn't like eagerly fill you in like hey man since you went through this with me I got to fill you in he was kind of like

let's see if we can pretend that never happened yeah that's what he tried to do like the next time we saw each other was like a couple days later I think when we worked again and I was like hey um what the [ __ ] and he was like oh yeah how's today going like he he tried just like to totally move past it and I was like the whatever what what if if this is true if you are not I was still trying to convince s that they were it was this weird joke and

so I was like if if if what you're telling me is real my entire view of the world has shifted and you're not talking to me about it m and Uh that didn't change very much from just how he normally was after that all right so uh it's hard to get information out of him take us into how did you start getting information out of him where where's does the story go from here was it another experience or was he revealing information to before another experience uh so like be before all this happened when he

was telling me he came or he he knew about this other place whatever basically like an upside down Type thing connected to dreams and he could go there and he spent a lot of time there and again at all of this information came in like little chunks randomly and uh he he spent lot of time here that's how he uh or at at this other place and time works differently there so every night when he would sleep from the time he was like 11 or 12 he was going to this other place and then spending

like weeks months at in one night there in a body that was like Waiting for him when he went to sleep and that was where he met this thing the thing that we were following he he called it sugent and I haven't heard that anywhere except for him saying that um but that's what this that's what the light was and he worked for that thing for a long time there like years and years he was like this thing's uh right hand enforcer Whatever and he tried getting out of that life I guess uh well there's

a lot of stuff with that but so he he thought he locked this thing out from being able to come here that's why he was so surprised that it was here and that's why he was so freaked out because he thought there was no way that it could happen and all that but then it was just there so so that's what he's telling you but at some point he tells you how this all starts for him when would when did That happen when did you start getting a full picture as to it or was it

when he gave you the the reading material uh yeah it was kind of that he I I don't I can't say like oh it was a week after this whatever but eventually he um he told me about these the the dreams and and doing all the stuff in the dreams and the training and whatever he went through and then I I knew I could tell he was starting to get annoyed with the questions cuz he just would like nicely Try to move away from him or not answer or like real short answer like oh yeah

I did that or whatever at at a certain point his mood changed after that thing showed up and he didn't want to talk anymore about this but before that he was more open a a lot more open um So eventually I just kept bugging him with questions anytime we work together I was like hey this thing that thing what what's you know anything I could ask him and then eventually he was like Here here's this book read this book it's it's about me my friend wrote it about me and my friends it says it's fiction

but it's not fiction we we did that for deniability or whatever just read this and stop asking me stuff so I read that uh and it was insane and then I kept asking him stuff after that and then he was getting annoyed so then he was like okay the the person who wrote it is is here in town they they Were going to college where we were and they'd been friends for a long time so he was like um here I I'll introduce you to them at one point so we met up at like a

Burger King and he introduced me to the person and so I I met the person who wrote the thing and they they had like a weird uh relationship to even at the time it felt kind of weird but I didn't know enough about her and he was he's just very good at only letting people See what he wants them to so I didn't really know him as much as I thought but so there was a weird thing with them and she was not psyched to meet me she did not want any part of talking to

me or talk talking about the book or anything like she just I would ask about stuff and uh she would just kind of like look at him and wait for him to answer I can see her doing that yeah she was not happy to meet me and I was like now I'm like well why did you even say yes to Meeting me yeah but yeah she was not he may not have told her that's probably what happened um yeah I mean do you want me to say like what she is yeah you can say you

can say what she is and stuff and just to uh give some side information here that we did have an initial recording uh but I have talked to her uh she does not want to be associated with this she's actually run halfway across the country To get away from this specifically and she was stunned that I tracked her down and just so everybody knows please if you're going to listen to anything listen to what I'm about to tell you the book is not available anywhere you can't buy it anywhere it she worked she had a

ER and she took all the books off the shelf and it wasn't out very long but she collected all of them that she knew of and so you can't buy this book anywhere and she doesn't want to be Attached to the book that's what like I've talked to her I've talked to her for hours upon hours several times but she doesn't want to be a tied to this story whatsoever so that's why we're just going with it that way because I got to respect her wishes and there are some people out there that were internet

sleuths and figured it out and if you're listening right now I would just like to remind you that you did promise you're not going to tell people and I'm Trusting that you're not going to go back on your word that's that's all I have to say about that yeah th this is like real this is these real real people's lives and [ __ ] like this there's there there's a reason a bunch of us don't want to be directly associated with it cuz the shit's [ __ ] crazy and it's real and it has implications

in a lot of ways right so so if you however you feel best to move forward but I don't want you to skim Past the description of how this unfolded for him because it's important to to state the conditions of what he described going through with this recruitment process what he saw and what was going on if you can't remember I can help you cuz I I don't know if you told me or if she told me in the conversations but uh that what he was doing like I don't want to give it away if

you want to if you want to talk about it uh yeah I mean it's it was a Long time ago since I read the book but from again from the random times that he would tell me stuff and then would stop telling me from the time he was like 11 or 12 he would he would dream and and wake up in a different place and this other place was real it had other people they knew him he had like a life there and while he would sleep here it there there wasn't really a limit to

the time that that might pass there and he I Guess was supposed to go there or he was connected there or something that that's why he did there was a whole other like body for him there he had a um counterpart is what he called it there was a counterpart there that was like his mentor and if it helps people okay it it if you imagine like uh Middle Earth or like Narnia those those are both based on where he Was those the authors of those books also were dreamers who experienced this place only they

didn't realize I don't think that it was real so they made these these worlds and these these stories that were based off of that it's like that a bunch of media has has done this on accident I think there's a bunch of it um specific authors CS Lewis and tolken tolken I think uh I'm pretty sure Based on what I've read Dean coun uh Stephen King probably some whoever made stranger things definitely Stephen King I I I personally believe that it does we nobody has told but just from the stories that I've seen Stephen King

come up with and the things that he said and hopefully for the overtime my wife will be sitting in here she has more information on this but some of the things that he has said on how he came up with these stories he thinks that They were just wild dreams that he dreamt up and he turned into stories and some of the stuff is like miror image yeah that's how Dean Co is too but well Stephen King he was fueled by Coke for a lot of that writing time the coke could be a vehicle on

how you shift there it could be I think there there could be aspects of different drugs and [ __ ] that could work but so so so the the one who wrote the book is another one he my buddy had a name for them they were like Um U um it's not like a spectator it's um scry yeah something like I guess like I guess a scribe kind of they basically they they they're people who through a natural ability know this stuff and she was one of them and these these other people are are like

that too other other people like my friend is not that he he had a different purpose and a different reason for being there um so that's kind of the context Of that when when he started going there when he was a kid initially he was like oh this is just cool it was like a fantasy world so he there was like crazy creatures and like he it was like a book you know of a kid just going to a magical place and they they were just [ __ ] around and then eventually it turned into

training for him where he was trained how to like fight and like fight a lot and um so the connection to Media it's there There's there's a bunch of it one of the things that he did for this suent thing for years at one point was going into other things dreams while they were asleep to affect their dreams or their subconscious or something things or people but both okay like like people or things over there and he could do it here too and they were he he had a name for him like dream Walkers or

or some [ __ ] Like that but like they could do a lot of stuff in a person's head while they were asleep that was like What He specialized in for a long time while he was still young in that world and then he was good at that so he moved up and got closer to being tighter with with suent I guess and the thing trusted him he became more involved in like uh I guess being a leader of of this things Like Army I guess eventually that's what it became so he was doing that

for a long time while he was over there and he did a lot of bad things and then met his girlfriend and then started to realize that he was doing bad things cuz at the time he just thought this was the thing that was nice to me so I'm doing what it wants and then he realized eventually that it it was like bad stuff morally so then he stopped doing that tried to cut off everything thought he Did and then that's why he freaked out so much when suent came here um yeah so he he

did a there there was a he lived a long time in that other place place so there was a lot of [ __ ] there that happened but that was kind of the the the gist of his connection with with that thing do you do you remember the recruitment process yeah he because like like all right so specifically like the cave Environment and then what suent was wearing that kind of stuff yeah so he the first at as he told me the first time that he woke up in a dream I guess he was in

like a tunnel that was like all there was no lights anywhere he was just in a tunnel and so he just walked in the direction he was pointing and he walked for like hours and hours and it was just like a a giant tunnel system and eventually he came up on this like big Opening uh uh Cave where like other tunnels led to basically like a big bigger like domed thing and it had like a big chair in the middle of it and um as from from what I remember suent was sitting something was S

I don't think it was suent that was sitting there at the time but this thing told him that he that it he was special and it could it could teach him things and he could do things and he could it this thing could show him how to do Things and then he was like oh cool and then he started being able to dream and wake up in this other body and the and the and I've I've thought I I was crazy for uh over a decade at this point because of all this [ __ ]

until I started connecting things that my brother told me eventually and my my brother went through this same [ __ ] tunnel system to find well I don't think he found the a thing sitting in the chair but he Found like this room the same same exact [ __ ] that my my friend described he described and they had never talked to each other there was no reason that they should say the same thing MH and then you've had people that have said pretty much the same thing so my segue just since you bring that

up JR we've had on the show and that was something that you heard before on my show cuz Jr said this was an overtime from Episode 309 the overtime for it he was talking about how he was in the middle of having sex with his girlfriend and then all of a sudden he was gone he's walking through a tunnel system and he walked into a cave like a big opening and he said that when he walked in he heard a voice say you're now entering the throne room and then there was an entity dressed in

black standing there recruiting him to work for them he denied it found himself back in this Side and was never bothered again now my my thing here is this this is something that I I just connected a do to if it wasn't suent that was doing the recruitment that adds an entire new L layer of of of possibilities now because all these years that I've been collecting people's experiences that are similar I've always come across people saying they were recruited by an entity but just never was suan but it sounds like you're saying Ron wasn't

probably As far as you remember wasn't recruited by sujan himself but if he but he chose to accept and that's when sujan came in picture yeah because specifically he did clarify that at some point because my my [ __ ] brother who I who I've met and I've clarified with yes I I I have verified what you're about to say yes there there he he had a whole um a lot of experiences when we were kids that I didn't know but at one point he was by Himself in the woods at uh like a park

close to my house and he saw a frog in the woods so then he like went up to the Frog and it hopped around a tree he followed it around the tree and then there was a cat there and then he followed it around another tree and there was a guy there in a purple suit and his eyes were like purpley like swirly and and he this thing offered uh to teach my brother how to do stuff how to how to specifically Open portals that was my brother's natural ability that he didn't know and this

thing could teach him how to open them that was what he did so um so that that happened and then my my buddy's girlfriend also ran into this thing at a totally different point and it was the same like like progression of things like frog cat thing and it tried getting her to my my brother agreed if that wasn't clear she He was trying this thing was trying agreed to what to work for it yeah to learn from it and whatever cuz he was like 12 did he know the name of it at this point

I don't think he knew then um or we saying the name we can okay it it was ball apparently um and my brother's pretty [ __ ] sure of that the ball tried to recruit my buddy's girlfriend um and my my buddy had prepped her for the chance that Something might do this something might try to contact her and whatever so she knew she already knew what this thing was about and she told it no and that was the end of that um but my my brother didn't say no but I I have a memory

a clear memory of of my buddy clarifying that that ball because I cuz he knew he knew about ball ball and sujan are different things they're kind of like the same power power level it sounds um Authority level but they're like lateral to each other kind of and balls like like a little higher a little like a little laterally diagonally higher higher than sugent yeah interesting I've always had the different percept perception I always thought that suent was higher than ball no cuz he cuz he was like more concerned with ball from from my from

my memory and and yeah could it could it be that he was more concerned about ball Because ball wasn't his boss I think so I think they from again you saying that reminded me for some [ __ ] reason the ball and suent were basically like the same same rank if you want to call it that and they were having like an internal little thing between each other so my buddy spent a lot of years working against ball for suent and so that so that was why know there was a difference between them and and

I Think part of why he might have been more concerned with ball is because supposedly sugent shouldn't be able to come here at all and it was just a light when I saw it but ball could be here multiple times in the same city two different people and could kind of do whatever he wanted yeah so that's more powerful I guess um okay so what what I found find find interesting about about this is how your Brother and Christy Ron's girlfriend they were recruited by ball Ron worked for sujan but wasn't recruited by suent in

the moment do we know what that entity's name was that did the recruiting for him I think it was ball and then they ended up having some some some things between them in their little power struggle or something it all sounds movie [ __ ] but it's not it Gets better it gets better because of the confirmation so um I I want to make sure we go into ronon's friends and I want to make sure and maybe even now if you think it fits uh we go into a deeper analysis of your brother's experience um

and I will tell people that like I said in the beginning I met your brother we all sat down together for hours and he told me his Experiences for hours and he there is a signifier I'll let you there's a signifier on his body uh should I say it or do you want to say it oh you can say it so your brother at some point got a balls sigil tattooed on his back right shoulder and you told me that before when we first met when I went to meet him that was I think the

first thing one of the first things I asked him I I I I said to him he he when we sat down he didn't know what we were sitting down About he knew it was about something but he really didn't know what because I remember bringing up you know your brother tells me you were recruited by an entity and he kind of looked at you looked at me he's like yeah and I was like can you tell me the name and he goes ball I said' do you have ball Sig tattoo s sigil tattooed on

your shoulder he says yeah and he showed me and so at what point do we want to get into your brother's the details of your brother's Experience and also like I said I don't I do not want to forget to bring up Ron's friends because that's a very important key to this whole thing and then at some point we need to talk about the next thing you experienced with Ron yeah uh so I guess talking about his friends would kind of go in with with what he did there so so he was going there for

years of this other side time and it was like over the course of like a few months here when he would sleep Eventually he got good enough at it that he could go to this place without sleeping and he uh he just kind of like Master it I don't know projecting or something almost like walking through a portal well yeah but it was just in his mind he didn't walk anywhere he was just he could just go there and so okay so just so I understand the conscious it's like a it's like a subconscious shift

like a Consciousness shift to to someplace else So so the Consciousness that would go there when he was sleeping he could do it take that Consciousness and go there just without sleeping yeah he could just end up standing and like oh yep there now and and and yeah So eventually cuz he was a kid when it's it's hard remember that he was like a a child when this happened he was like you know 12 so he eventually got his uh friends like like three or four friends um to try with him like one night he

was like Hey Do this thing you're going to dream and then you're going to wake up here and like we can hang out in this cool place so they did it they became like a little group of friends there they could all do different things um like his his best friend uh developed an ability to to change uh into like a werewolf thing and I know it's crazy but he retained The ability to do that at least somewhat on this side too when he was an adult after he had learned how to do it and

he did it for a long time over there he he could he could do it here too just like my buddy after a long time could do what he could do there here um and his girlfriend was witness to that so so there was a the his whole friend group they were they were kind of like a whole crew that was working for suent at different Points and then it led into a whole thing where they ended up fighting suent and during that is when my buddy thought that they had closed the ability for suent

to ever come to our side um yeah I from what I remember one of one of the friends counter uh his one of the friends over there during this this big thing ended up getting really hurt or dying there and then in real life that friend was like Comos and that was that was just the end of them like in Real Life kid just didn't wake up again and then and after that happened then they were all like oh we're definitely not doing this anymore and my BR my my my buddy kept like going back

every now and then cuz he he just kind of like called to him I guess so what you described here with the comos side of things not identical but similarities to people who Say that when you do astral projection you're connected to your body by a silver cord and if that silver cord is cut the body dies so if there was something that happened to him in this other state of existence where say he maybe didn't die but he was severely injured and Kos there maybe he was Kos here but maybe if he did die

there and whatever part of him wasn't that whatever part of him left his body couldn't return just left him a Vegetable is that kind of how you read it yeah I I think that's that's what happened again sounds [ __ ] crazy but this happened there was like a kid in this group that just didn't wake up one day and then he just stayed not waking up so it's it's it's real it's a real thing um yeah so but his the guy who could do the the werewolf [ __ ] whatever you want to Call

it could could do it here I I yeah I'd like to to just comment on him and hopefully we can remember to bring this up for the overtime with my wife uh she dove into this hard and that's why we want to bring her in but she found them she found these guys and the the guy that you're referencing and stuff there are things about him and I don't remember the details so maybe she will but there I remember there are things about him that's like oh yeah I I could See the werewolf side of

him yeah and and it's even like like actual physical uh changes like they could all [ __ ] do they could they could change from what they normally are just here like he he could and did for people like as a party trick would like grow his teeth out in front of him and then he has fangs and then my my buddy would play it off as like oh funny Halloween stop doing that um but it was real like it was he could do that [ __ ] and and and That did you ever meet

any of these guys I met that one I actually met a couple of them and uh they did not want to talk to me I was accidentally a douche in the meeting though he cuz through the course of my my buddy revealing stuff about myself I have apparently through like I some people are like old souls I guess if you want to put it that way and that Soul has carried on for a long time and it has a certain Purpose mind has a certain purpose that keeps things shut and it's weird that me and

my brother are so opposite and his whole thing is opening stuff and I'm mine is supposed to be keeping something shut he told me that and at this party it was it was my buddy's birthday party that the these other dudes were there and I wasn't trying to be annoying and at the time I didn't I didn't understand the years that they had Experienced mentally um I just didn't have a grasp of it so in what what they have experienced is like [ __ ] Decades of like fighting and almost dying and Friends dying and

I didn't know any of that but I met him and I was like Hey My My Buddy says I'm kind of uh important in your world is what I said and then he was like who are you I get yeah yeah and and uh I don't think he would have talked to me anyway but he definitely Didn't after that and then uh that was my only interaction with him and then I haven't seen him since um but yeah so I think what we'll do is we will shift into your brother because that kind of jumps

us into your next firsthand experience with the bizaar and Ron yeah so so you want me to go into some of like my my brother's past before That point yeah his past and even some of the things that he uh when he would go and bring back with him you were able to verify one of those things and um also then talking about that night where he was attacked yeah and what leted into all that okay um so we're only a couple years apart um I'm older and from when I was like 14 or something

so he was like 12 or 11 he he was having Dreams where he would go somewhere else and he was just a kid so he didn't and we didn't have like growing I feel like it's an important context growing up uh my parents outlawed anything magicky like like Disney or Harry Potter or whatever like we didn't have any access to this [ __ ] at all especially at that time so we didn't have neither of us had context for any of this we hadn't even like seen Star Wars because they thought it was magicky so

he he would wake up in a dream someplace else and then he would just hang around there and at at at one point all kind of around the time that he met ball he woke up one night in like a purple version of our house like the light and [ __ ] was purple it was it was like all like the atmosphere was was purplish and the the there was a wall in in his in our room that in real life was like complete it it wasn't torn apart in This world it was like torn

open the interior wall and there was a book in the wall cavity uh that he grabbed and when he woke up it was with him in real life and this book had spells or something in it I I never I didn't see that oh you didn't see the book no I never I thought you did uhuh um cuz he didn't tell me about it until after he got rid of it gotcha so I never saw it but he found this thing pretty pretty Close to when he met ball and then he started learning I guess

stuff from it with the aid of ball plus ball was teaching him how to use his natural ability to open portals that that that's what my brother uh what his use was to ball he would get told by by ball he like go to this location at this time and just hang out there for a minute and he would and then he would like hear something that wasn't there before or See something and then that was it then he would go home and that was what B wanted and that just his his natural uh Aura

I guess ability or something is is what ball needed at certain points in time to open whatever he wanted to come out okay so I have a question is it and you probably don't have an answer for this I wish I would have thought to ask him is it that your brother is like a key to a portal is Your brother the portal himself because clearly there's something about your brother that's allowing things to come through because yeah I guess I don't know if if he creates it or unlocks it I don't know but the

weird I kind of feel like it would be a coincidence if he is a key to unlocking it because I was very specifically told to avoid certain Keys due to my connection To this of keeping something closed and we're real different people it would just kind of be like Cosmic funniness if he's like a key and I'm a lock I guess uh I'm going to lock you in my basement so you don't ever come in contact with your brother again well we yeah we we might be experimenting on you yeah yeah there's we don't yeah

we we don't uh contact each other much but I yeah so I didn't know this either but Like at one point when we were sharing the room that was the same wall with the the book in it and [ __ ] there was like a a a mirror in there on a dresser that I guess always kind of seemed a little weird to me but I never had any specific reason to like not like it but he was like freaked out by this thing because all the time when he would walk in front of this

mirror if he looked into the mirror it would be like a different place a different version of the room With different things in it and there was like a few specific ones that would like interact back with him there was like an old lady and a dude and a and a a big wolf at one point and like and and I and I didn't know any of this until years after we were both out of the house um but okay at one point when my when my brother he was like uh I guess 7 17

something like that around the time that This whole stuff happened with my buddy um he didn't want to do what ball wanted at least not all the time like I I think he started to question it or he might have just like wanted to be rebellious so kind of as like a a punishment or a fail safe or something ball I don't know if he created them or something but he it he attached these like monkey things to to my brother and these monkey things like had a face but they didn't have like a mouth

and they Just had huge eyes and they would just like swing on like the power lines and the trees in the backyard and just stare at him through the window and they would show up if my brother said no to ball if ball was like hey go here and my brother was like no then these things would show up and harass him until he would do it and then I guess he had been doing this for a while at this one point and was trying to legitimately cut off his connection with ball as much as

he Could and so I was my my room was below was in the basement and one night it was I don't know like like like midnight night or something and there was just like a bunch of like thumping and like weird noises right above me where he was sleeping cuz he had been sleeping in the living room I think now because he was [ __ ] scared of the room that his bed was in and he didn't tell anybody and That's why he just was like I want to sleep in the living room now I'm

I'm just connecting that now so he was sleeping in the living room uh there was like a weird weird like scuffling noises and [ __ ] above me and he like like thumped onto the ground and like I heard him like saying ow and [ __ ] and I ran up there and he he had like little scratches all over him like all over his his arms and back and chest and everything and he was like they got in They got in I don't know how they got in and I was like dude slow slow

down I don't I don't know what you're talking about tell me what you're talking about and me and him at that point especially had virtually no actual relationship at all like just wouldn't we lived you know in the same house and that was the extent of it but he went into this whole thing he was like the the the monkeys from outside they got in I somehow they got in they just scratched the [ __ ] out Of me like they they just attacked me and uh and I hadn't know I I didn't know about

these things at all but I tried calming him down I thought it was a dream and he had like scratched himself or rolled on the ground and scratched himself or something but I eventually got him calmed down and then I I went outside and called my buddy because I didn't know who else to call and I told him just the crazy [ __ ] that my brother had just said like There's I some monkey thing I don't know got into the house is basically what I told him cuz I didn't I didn't know I didn't

have any other information to tell him and all he said was I'll be there in a minute well he said I'll be there soon and this was late keep in mind but he he showed up like pretty quick in a car he did like Sprint here he didn't fly no but we were outside and it was cold and and uh he was like real serious Again like he wasn't normally and he was he told me things are going to get really weird for a little bit just trust me and I there was nothing else I

could do so I was like okay and and he closed his eyes and he like looked down and and I I watched I watched his body change his legs got longer by like several inches and I could hear like Creaking I don't I guess bone or something I his his [ __ ] skeleton was changing he got his his his he got way taller like several inches taller his eyes changed his whole [ __ ] personality changed his arms like he he just got like taller and he was already kind of like thin so he

got like a lot skinnier cuz he was like stretched out more and I know he was [ __ ] taller because after he after he changed he just kind of like Looked at me and didn't say anything and and and I was like what is happening and all all he said in a voice that wasn't completely different but it wasn't his normal voice said your friend is gone he'll be back um and and so I just stared at him for a while and and like a while and then it was cold so I was like

I guess come inside or something so I know he was taller because my my the The stairs down to my room there was like a a ledge that um like real tall people would hit would hit their head on and he didn't have a problem clearing it ever whenever we hung out but he had to hunch like several inches down to avoid this thing when he came down into my room he he got taller his his he got taller we got down there and then he just sat on on my couch next to me like

with his hands on his knees and just was staring at the wall in front of us and And that was it he wasn't doing anything besides that and I just kept [ __ ] looking at him because I this was not my friend but it's like sort of his body uh and we just stayed like that and he wouldn't talk to me he wouldn't answer anything I was was asking like is he going to be back soon what what are you and he would not he just wouldn't talk to me and then a long like

a half hour later or something it was a long time 40 Minutes later or something he changed again he looked down and then he like did I I heard him and saw him like change back to his self and he was like exhausted like barely awake and he was like the problem with your brother is gone I'm going to go to bed now and then he just left and went to bed I guess like he just went home and he told me before he left not to say anything to my brother but that The problem

was gone um and then he just left and like the next day uh I asked my brother I was like what do you remember from last night and he's like I don't know I had some weird dreams but that was it and and that was it and he didn't he he had he didn't have a memory of anything getting in the house and [ __ ] him up he still had scratches on him but he he didn't know what they were from he just Made up a reason I think so he didn't know he he

he just didn't know what happened and I guess for a long time that was the end of those things from from from what my buddy described later like years later he it was years he went to an upside down version of my house when he changed and something else went into his body he he went into this other other part and there was a lot of monkeys like around my house like a Bunch of them a whole like like a lot and he spent over there like hours fighting these things and murdering them so they

couldn't come back inside and it was like a whole like a salt of these things and and him him doing that cut them off from my brother and then it worked for a long time but then my brother brought it back on himself by dipping his toe back in To talk to ball or something because he I because it sound I don't know for whatever reason so him him him going back kind of undid what my buddy did and brought them back into his life but for a long time they were gone and my brother

didn't know that my buddy did that for like a decade yes so because I did not tell him right because and I think you you kind of skipped this part in your description but you didn't tell your brother because Ron said if you tell him it would undo what I did right yes he he told me that was cuz he he was like just don't don't talk to him about what this H what this was and I was like why and then then he was like because that would I guess bring awareness to it or

something and it would undo what I just spent all this time doing and then I believe I I listen to that because this is way out of my [ __ ] field and and so I just listen to him So to kind of picky back off of what you just said and maybe my memory doesn't serve me correct on this but as far as I remember I remember sitting across a table from you and your brother and him sharing this about how they're back and I feel like you and I kind of looked at each

other and was like well if they're back you might as well tell him what what you did that night I think that's what had happened cuz I don't think I told him Until that interview yeah about my buddy doing that he just thought they went away for a while and didn't know why and it was my buddy on that [ __ ] night he went into whatever and fought them off for him that was such a surreal moment uh again that that'll be aired later this week on Thursday but uh it was such a surreal

moment to be sitting at a table with you two hearing the story from you me driving hundreds of miles to meet you and him in person and sitting There and hearing him talk about things that as far as I was concerned shouldn't be happening according to the story that you shared and then you're just like well I'm going to tell you yeah it it was it was pretty wild to to be to witness on my end of things yeah well and and something that happened after um my the interview with you and then the interview

with you and him I I don't really know so okay one of our cousins um is kind of witchy or something or was At one point kind of witchy and uh she she does like readings sometimes for people and stuff like that and um I I knew that my brother had gone to her and my mom to get rid of that mirror that he was terrified of that he kept seeing stuff in and so when he was an adult they they did this they buried the mirror upside down and put some certain wood over it

and then other wood on top of that to like seal it shut and all That so I knew about that happening and I just hit her up randomly and was like Hey did my did did my brother ever like come to you about something I didn't like lead her on with anything but I was like did did you ever like help him with something or talk to him about like some stuff that he was in and then she said Oh you mean the monkeys and I was like what yeah yeah but it sounded crazy no

no one knew no one knew about this but she did because He went to her at one point because he was desperate years after he undid what my what my buddy fixed for him he was desperate again to get rid of them he went to her she did some viewing thing into him and saw these monkeys and it freaked her the [ __ ] out and then she didn't want to interact with him in regards to this anymore M and all of that happened independent of me I I found this out after it had Happened

so there's just more confirmation of of these things that's not me like I I can't I I I can't make people have done these things it so it's not me like it's it's it's it's real and it sounds insane and but it's real so she she confirmed that the monkey things existed and my buddy did and my brother knows that they're a thing because they they were terrorizing him whenever he said no and I didn't make any of that up that This is other people telling me these things so yeah yeah how's it feel it's

still weird and it's really confusing and I still have times where I feel crazy but I know through these other um confirmations that like I'm not but it it it's just crazy and then it it's made it's made worse because I can't get any more information on my own my my Buddy basically 100% has ghosted me at this point um he knows about me he yes you guys talked about this yeah in the attempt to get his side firsthand um and he's not down for that so he there's there's there's this whole there's this whole

world that got dropped on me the author won't talk to me and hid herself from me actually uh and my buddy won't talk to me so I don't I don't have a way to learn more on my own about this there's Not like a library I can go to I I don't have the ability that she does to know things or that he does to just go places I can't do any of that so I'm I'm kind of you know stuck now and he and what what he told me about my my brother's a ability

or yeah his ability to open things mine is to keep a very specific thing shut and I just do that by like existing I guess and then after I die that soul Is just going to go into something else to keep it closed as like a continuation thing so I'm just kind of here I'm not supposed to try to go over there but he said I might he said I can probably try now the last time he talked to me he said that probably nothing bad would happen if I tried like projecting over there now

but for like 10 years he told me absolutely not don't do it ever you are not supposed to go there he also thought The suan couldn't come here he's Been wrong before I would suggest being careful he was pretty confident though so I'm just saying yeah let let me say this uh you you said about the author um and so let me kind of lay this out I I'm going to I'm going to call her again um because since I last talked to her we have uncovered a lot of information through other people's experiences that

line up with this and she might be more inclined to cooperate don't shake your head know at me she might be uh I will Say this episode uh 646 I called it Tak to other Realms a guy named Colin very very similar to Ron um and I told Colin I said I have a feeling that you're G to have some issues now that you talk to me and he did and he doesn't want to talk to me anymore um but and he's not the first one either uh to go down that road of you know

cutting me off um yeah well yeah let me say this the the author you said that she has hid herself from you and I want to clarify What that means because she didn't hide herself from me what happened is when you talked to me years ago about this you said I said to you this is a wild story and it's one of the rare times that I have such a wild story that has strings that I can pull at because you told me about the book and I said I'm going to find this author and

I'm going to talk to her and you said you kind of laughed at me I think and you kind said good luck I've been looking her looking For her for years I can't find her when we hung up within an hour I think it was it had to be around an hour because I know I text you we found her yeah we had emailed her and you're like how well when I talked to her she said what part of her process of fleeing across the country from this she she's a witch she cast spells for

him and anybody connected to him in this story to not be able to find her and so like she created some kind of spell that made a veil Between you and and her that yielded her almost invisible on digitally and things like that so that is why I was able to find her so fast and within I think it was like two or three days be on the phone with her and like yeah and talking about this stuff and so like and Sh her story is even like it's way more detail than what you shared

because like she was involved in this yeah that was part part of her natural ability is is she's like a conduit for for information or Whatever so even if she's not trying to learn something about all of this she knows it like it's just passed down to her there's some [ __ ] name that's not scribe but it's like it's it's I know it's it's something like she she's basically a conduit of knowledge that she never wanted or learned on her own um but yeah I I tried through all the periods of time when my

buddy just vanished from me I I tried to find her because I had met her before and I Was hoping she would be willing to answer questions for me and I could not locate her not even to like in person I just couldn't find a anything about her existing anymore and I knew she was real she wrote the [ __ ] book I was holding but I couldn't find her and then you did in like an hour uh and I'm not that smart like I'm not I'm not like an internet sleuth guy um and I

do want to kind of just hint on this and these are these are some of these things I we will we'll be able to it will be revealed in other recordings that people will be able to hear um we're going to we're going to create an entire playlist for for uh my members that anything that I uncover when it comes to this stuff like all this um because I like there there's a person that I found in South Africa that I told you about I I actually got a hold of him I don't know if

I told you that uh you had tried to last I knew I Think I got through and he said he'll he'll record with me and and and talk to me um I don't know what it will yield it might be just a five-minute conversation but I want to have a place where I can kind of just collect it all um but your brother when he was talking to us he gave me a very specific location that I could go to where he is called to yeah and and that thing appear do you remember what how

he described it Because I can't like I almost want to say it was like a like a goat head but I don't know if that's accurate oh that thing okay so the way he described this thing basically he's tried going for years at this point not doing what ball wants so in addition to the monkeys this other thing has showed up outside his house or it'll be in his house or whatever and it's like an all black thing just like a like a vague body with a bleached horse Skull where its face would be and

this thing doesn't touch him but it gets close sometimes or it'll just hang outside of his house and he can like hear the wind of what sounds like it breathing through the skull nostrils and [ __ ] um and he's he's sure that's just another thing from ball to try uh [ __ ] with him enough to make him listen Basically it sounds terrifying and it sounds like like when he was describing it it it really seemed like it was something that he was actively terrified of yeah that's what's like it it wasn't like in

his ancient history like it was like something that was active yeah like like could have been that day active yeah and I think the monkeys at this because the monkeys have been around him for at this point 10 years f 15 15 years yeah so those are kind of whatever to Him I think he's found out found a way to like they can't hurt him now but this thing is new and it doesn't ever affect him it's just [ __ ] scary and uh it'll just be around him sometimes that's that's it's wild and it

and it those those things only go away for a little bit if he gives in and goes where ball wants him to go and then they'll leave for a couple months or until he gets told to go somewhere Again and says no so he's still actively saying no right last I knew yeah and he's and he's been traveling a bunch so I don't know how much that affects I don't know I don't know if it's something special with where where where we grew up um I don't think it's only like localized to that spot and

can't go anywhere else but he's on he's on jobs for like a week or two all over the country so I don't I don't know how active he is at Doing whatever I wonder I wonder if I uh yeah last time I text him was on March TW or Yeah March 19th I text him no March 17th I said how things going man he said things are going good out of state at work but doing pretty good nothing too crazy I hope you and your family are doing well and I said uh did you have

to move or are you traveling For work he said just traveling and that's the extent the extent of it yeah I as far as I know he's been actively trying for a long time to learn other magic seems like a corny way of saying it but but learning ways to protect himself more like he's been trying to do that so I he might have done it at this point and figured out how to keep him kind of off of him but his the ball is the one who convinced Him to get that seal tattooed on

him to like lock them together so I guess there's only like a really specific thing like a series of events he has to do to break that that he hasn't done as far as I'm aware um so it's still round like they're they're still tied somehow man and and my and my buddy couldn't couldn't break that he could only keep like the monkeys off of him So based off what you said earlier how you believe maybe he said it but at least you believe that ball is higher ranking than than uh suent if if I

remember right through like over the span of like all the years he was over there they had started pretty equal and then eventually ball got more powerful if if I'm remembering correctly I think that's the the course of of Events would would that mean then that your brother would be maybe more higher ranking than than Ron I don't think so based only on what anything my brother does isn't intentional like he's he isn't actively doing anything himself to open things it's just something that happens when he's there and it not everybody can be that aura

to unlock something so so it's specific to him but he's not like I'm Going to do this thing it's not like he's a soldier in the Army yeah and my buddy very general very for sure was like actively learning things and doing things that he could do here for a long time like he could he he he could change his body a lot more than I saw well the author the author confirmed that to me as well and his girlfriend's confirmed it to me too yeah outside like when he wasn't around I I've asked her

before when they were Talking to me what made her believe in him and she's she told me about a time when they were like hooking up or whatever and he had like a little moment where he wasn't focused on not changing and he did and so she's she like they were together and and she saw him changing like Claws and he got bigger and he like [ __ ] wings and and and then she was like oh well yeah that's real then cuz it just happened to her um and then yeah the Author has said

similar things so that's what he he was at the at the peak of what he could do my buddy was very strong and even after I told him that we had found the author he was shocked too cuz he'd been looking for her for his own reasons they they'd had a history together whatever and he couldn't find her and he can find people and then he told me I had told you about like his other side or whatever right scorp well not just Scorp was his counterpart over there that was like his mentor and it

was scorp was who came into his body when he left for my brother um so yeah that's the whole thing but on that side my my buddy was very good at what he was doing and then he wanted to stop because he grew a conscience I guess and so he wanted to stop so something over there suent or whoever tried making like a version of him they they they tried like Duplicating him basically and it worked and then that thing could do everything my buddy could do at his Peak but without a conscience it could

kind of just do whatever it wanted it could just be violent and crazy and like [ __ ] everything up my buddy a couple years ago I guess managed he CU he's still able to to to project and stuff he never lost That ability or gave it up so he can do it and he does it just to check in he says unlike people he knows and situation and stuff his other his evil twin I guess had basically for a while just been SE like just tearing through where they were and people were getting mad

at him thinking it was him and it it wasn't my buddy so he found a way to create this like Labyrinth maze prison thing in her head I I believe it's her head that trapped that thing in it and when I and then I told him that we had found her he uh we were like on the phone and he was like hey I'll I'll be back I got to go check on something and he called me back later and um he was like kind of sounded different and he said that the thing had broken

out so I don't know if it was Because I told him that we had found her but whatever like prison he had locked this thing in he went into like the maze he made in her mind or something and it had broken out like it had just torn it apart and got out and so like the last time I talked to him he was like I guess I have to try finding this thing again and all that happened only after he found out we had found her or you had found her I don't how that's

connected but he Seemed pretty sure that somehow it was connected so and that was the last time I talked to him so I don't know and he up that he this is the [ __ ] reason why he's ghosting you man like holy crap man yeah this this is the [ __ ] that he does it's like this a world shattering thing and then bye okay let me all right so let me just get this straight you're saying you talk to me I find her you tell him I found her and his response was I'll

be right back Because he wanted to check on the evil twin yeah calls you back and says it's out I need to handle this kind of thing yeah and the Maze was in her mind I believe that was the connection that it was cuz like yeah he had he had set it up in her mind cuz it was trying to get to her to like interact with her again pretending to be him or something like that and so he made this like maze thing if you want to put like an imagination to it to like

Permanently trap it and then through something got broke that let it just tear through that and then it was out again and then he gave me no no other [ __ ] details because he won't talk to me anymore so I'm hav't sure you'll talk to him again probably not but don't say that i' I've tried he's he ain't gonna talk but um yeah that was the last thing I had known I'm going to email him when this goes out I'm going to say hey man this Is what we talked about I'd like to talk

to you if you still if you're still around oh yeah no he won't uh respond I'll tell him it can be off air he won't respond he won't trust any of this even like it was a few years ago so after after these events um that was like all this happened like the summer after uh or like the year after high school and then I went away for a few years and I came back and met up with him he happened to be in town when I was In town and we met up just like

at a bar to talk cuz we were like friends and stuff and while we were there he got like a text or something and he was like Hey I I'll be right back and he walked out of the bar and there was this dude this like nerdy looking guy like looking through the window at us on on the street and he went out there and then they like had a conversation real quick and then he came back and was like hey um don't rush but do it now you got to Pay cuz I'm going to

take you back to where I was staying at the time and I was like what what what are you talking about and that was a guy that he knew that was okay so my my my buddy asked this nerdy dude to to monitor him I guess to see if other people were interested if we if if if either of us came back into town because we had both left the city for a couple years at this point and that dude alerted him that me and him meeting up in the city drew some Kind of attention

and then somebody was trying to get to us in some capacity so you are kind of involved in this somehow you just don't really have a clear picture of it yeah I I don't know if I should say the name of what technically I'm connected to specifically that's that's supposed to stay shut um because I I I just I I don't know if that's a bad thing or not but whatever that is Is theoretically the last time it opened was like the black plague of forever ago that was like the direct what got out um

and he seemed pretty sure of that so I I think yeah he he has given me just enough to like know some's out there but not details I think in a weird way to protect me from it I don't know and my Brother is connected to this because he opens things and my my buddy is connected because he directly knows all this and has his hands all over it and so me and him meeting up that night set off alarms somewhere and so we got in the car uh cuz he had picked me up and

we took this weird ass route through the city like as if we were being followed and he would like subtly look up at the mirror every now and then like see if we I think I Think he was losing whoever was foll was following us and we got back to where I was staying at uh my mom's house cuz she had moved and I was like am I good like is this like my family's here is this going to be a problem and he was like no it won't be a problem um just don't come

outside for the rest of the night and he said it like in a chill way but it he he was saying it on perp like like he's he's a charismatic dude and He's he's good at manipulating words and tones and and stuff like that and so he was like subtly just ordering me just to just stay inside for that and it was late house arrest for the night yeah so I didn't need to be out anyway but I was like what the [ __ ] and then he was like he was about to leave and

then he came back and then he was like okay um real quick if something happens do this thing and he showed me like this little hand movement and told Me to say this one phrase and then whatever was there would be gone what was the phrase do you remember it's it's like kayak Ka oh wait hold something like that no stop right there stop right there I don't want to hear on the show right now yeah so it's it's like that or something and it was like a little hand thing and uh and that was

it and then he was like um do that if you feel weird and then he left um and that was it and then I just Didn't see him for a few more years after that and then uh I don't think we've I guess he's come to my house once in the five six years since then and that was just like like in the day and nothing happened and but yeah so but I guess whatever he had told me or taught me was some like Shield thing or something like a like a like a shield bubble

that would like push out whatever was there or Something yeah I mean he taught you probably some kind of magic like a basic thing yeah and yeah so and I've never felt like I needed to use it and I'm not even totally sure if I remember like the hand movement and stuff so I don't and I've never been in that world I don't I don't I don't know any of that [ __ ] and uh but yeah he he told me that so I've been we've been like followed before I guess when we've linked up

before so like that's that's part of why I Understand his uh anxiousness with jumping into this in a more public way cuz it's got real implications cuz he's got he like I say this this is real to me and it's real to a bunch of people so it's real he is a is a traumatized guy who's lived a lot longer than his body so he's there's a lot there's a lot of trauma there that he's out of now like now he has a wife and a Kid and like a normal [ __ ] that he

doesn't want to threaten so I I do get that and I've even with my introduction to all this and everything I it's never been direct like I it's been different experiences so for me it's like a tourist learning about something and for him it was a real thing so I I get why he's not why he doesn't want to to bring anything up yeah no I get it I mean like when he told you uh about all this Stuff do you remember what year it was um 204 okay so if it's 2014 first of all

like my show didn't even exist so like the idea of telling you and then it being on a podcast was not I don't think podcasts were even a thing were they were I wasn't listen but they weren't like they are now yeah um Rogan was still was around in 2014 I think Sasquatch Chronicles was running just Starting I hadn't heard of a podcast at that point yeah no they they were I mean you're talking probably like 200,000 in the world at that point really not a lot um but what's interesting is that like in in

the SK the the grand scheme of time you came into the scene really fresh on it because uh in 2012 is when the book was published yeah for that short period of time and it was from what I understand written I think early 20s and she met Him in college so I mean you're talking like probably 2010 to 2012 is when her involvement probably was around that yeah and so you're coming into the picture not even five years later from the time she met himh uh yeah it it it was all fresh then and now

it's like let's Bury Bury Bury yeah cuz everybody's adults and has families and [ __ ] and like potentially this is like an actual dangerous Thing you know so yeah there's like it's it's not like oh cool fun Story Time like there's there's real consequences to some of this [ __ ] yeah well uh I think we should uh bring this in for a landing I think uh unless there's something with the initial Genesis story that you didn't get out that I I don't remember I think we we squeezed squeezed it hard enough uh yeah

I don't think I missed anything not that I can think of okay uh So let's bring this in for a landing and then we'll reconvene in the morning and uh do this again again for a detailed look into we're going to talk about this more details and discuss it more but also talk about other people and how they might be tied into this as well maybe some stories that I've uncovered and things like that because when you told me this story never ever did I imagine I'd ever talk to another person who had Anything remotely

close to what you shared with me and that's not true yeah yeah that's why I didn't want to bring it up cuz it sounds so [ __ ] crazy but like it takes one person to open the box and everybody else is like okay since somebody else is talking about it yeah you know and uh there I mean this is taken me down I mean if if people listening right now if you're new welcome but if you've been around for a while um you've heard how I talk about Things and how that's changed over time

what you just heard is like a huge reason why I talk the way I talk and the way I say it I know comes across like well how do you know bro well I've talked to some people who've convinced me uh this stuff is real and I think I even said to you on the way over to the studio here you like you have the dream realm and I forget who told me this it was recent though you have the dream realm the next Level from that is lucid dreaming and a lot of people have

not everybody but I I don't have lucid dreams but a lot of people have lucid dreams and and you know the lucid dream from what I understand uh generally is you're it's very real it feels very real but there are little tiny things off that make you aware in the lucid dream that you're dreaming but you continue to dream in this state of knowing you're dreaming but remaining where you're at yeah like I I can do that I can't get I I haven't been able to get to the next point right the the the next

level is moving past the lucid dream state into literally another state of existence in for lack of better terms the other realm or another realm because I think there might be more than one uh but like you you you move into and now all of a sudden you're now operating in another state of existence you're not dreaming you're not sleeping You've pierced that Veil and now you're in in that other spot and it it sounds like some people like Ron got so good at it that you could just skip the whole sleep process and just

go yeah I mean well that was that was what he did when he when he changed in front of me that was it scor that showed up yeah so it so when when and people who listen we barely we didn't even touch scorp because it just it it didn't really come up much but he was like his best friend Mentor on the other side and also they like could share a body right so like if if if Ron went to the other side he had to have scorp come and replace him here right if or

was that was that what did she tell me that uh as far as I knew the scorp only needed to do that if he was in certain circumstances because like if it was just like in the span of like a night when he was asleep he didn't need to be awake here so but if he like was Consciously change like switching like he did to help my brother something had to take his body cuz he wasn't sleeping MH so that that was scorp for him but scorp isn't the evil twin no the evil the the

the evil twin is like a a clone of of Ron that that basically I think sujan had a hand in it or he was mad that my buddies quit basically and didn't want to lose that force in his you know Arsenal So he made this thing and then this thing doesn't care about morals like my buddy does and then was just doing whatever wow wow well um I don't know I hope people feel like they finally got to hear the story um it's been a long time coming and uh there's just been to be honest

with you we're going to wind this down because it's almost 1 o'clock in the morning I got to get you back to the hotel go so we can get to sleep because we have to Be back here in the morning because you have to fly out tomorrow but um just so people understand like I really held out hope for a long time that I could talk to Ron I didn't want to release this story because I was like I don't like no offense to you but I didn't want you telling the world the story I

wanted Ron to tell the story well a bunch of yeah cuz I only have like a small part of my my ideal situation was that you were going to Talk to Ron which he did he became aware of me which he did and then he said all right let's do this and let's talk and I was holding out hope and the fact that he has ghosted you so long I'm like okay we just need to do it but now it's been so long we have to re we have to record this on good microphones compared

to what we used to have yeah uh because Tech changed and so uh that's why it it took so long there's some other things but the main thing was that I was really Hoping that I could get Ron and it it doesn't seem like that but you keep shaking your head no at me I I still hold I like listen he not happening listen listen all I need is for him to have just a moment of sense of what if Wonder Adventure in him again yeah he ain't going to get that I just need to

talk to the guy I'm telling maybe maybe it'll be a deathbed thing like you know 80 years from now just give him my number does he have my Number uh I think I sent it to him it he was very clear that he wasn't going to talk to you I he doesn't talk to me now so I yeah he's not he he's he won't uh be contributing to this and his friends won't and uh the other people won't so unless they're totally not connected to him they're they're not uh going to help let me ask

you a question just hypothetically MH his other friends MH like say the guy Who CHS it into a werewolf if somehow I happen to come across him and ask some questions he wouldn't respond and he would tell Ron well what's Ron gonna do he would just Ron would then know that you're going to his friends and then they're all going to ghost you if they wouldn't and you're you're not going to talk to them dude any of them it's not happening it's a it's real it's Real [ __ ] to them so they're not going

to talk I know but like that's why I want to talk to them yeah yeah but that's the reason they won't is it's because they can't they I'm like the supernatural journalist yeah they're just not gonna talk to you well I don't agree with that okay I think there's a chance I have to believe that so your brother talked to me yeah he's not them though he even he like with all his experiences it wasn't the All the [ __ ] that they went through so there's a lot of trauma with them yeah yeah there

is uh well I get it I mean I've had the phone hung up on me about this stuff before um you know I've been ghosted about this before with other people it is a sensitive topic um and so uh but I got to do my job and I got to try to get the story and talk about it so um I I I'll probably reach out to Ron again Just to see but I you know like you said he'll probably ghost me so he has so far yeah maybe I'll have some magic words this time

um but anyways uh dude listen I do appreciate you coming down and I keep acting like this is the end but we have a whole other recording to do tomorrow so let's just wrap it up and reconvene yeah let's do it all right cool so uh for the overtime we will uh H hopefully have my wife in studio if the kids are cooperating in the morning and We're going to dive into different people aspects some things that you talked about that I that match some other things that I've heard including people from your area that

have had uh relationships with werewolf people that I got hammered for That interview okay like your story and the things that I know about it are what validate that man's story it's cra crazy as his story sounds I don't know what Twilight is I mean I know of it I've Never watched it never read the books and I called him I talked to him about it I said people are telling me you lied to me and that you created this this this Twilight story mixed with from werewolf or vampires I guess to werewolves and he

agreed that it sounds like that but he couldn't take back what he said and I told him I know what you told me before you knew who I was and I knew what you told me was true because of what I knew And I said just tell me you're lying though and I'll just replace the episode and I'll just not a big deal I'm not mad you know even though I would have been mad uh but he's like I can't take it back and I was like okay then I'm just going to take a beating

publicly and that's what I did for that episode and uh you know people hated it but I can't get around some of the things he said I understand the way he told the story was a little weird uh and off it seemingly But um some of the details I was like you shouldn't know that you just shouldn't know that so we'll get into it tomorrow hopefully Lindsay will be here to really shed light on some of those details uh because she has done a lot of research into it but uh let's get out of [Music]

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