Keyword Match Types for Google Ads in 2025

all right welcome to the channel today and today I've got the absolute pleasure of having Darren all the way from the UK and Darren why don't you give us a quick introduction of who you are and a bit of your experience with Google ads sure yeah um I'm Darren Taylor I am a digital marketing consultant and a Google ads I suppose consultant as well um I basically started in digital marketing probably would have been around 2011 and that was in an agency an agency specializing in small business clients not necessarily Enterprise level so um a

lot of kind of you know small budgets and a lot of challenges website challenges that kind of stuff but I think that was a good environment to kind of learn PPC from there I basically went on to um client side so I was kind of working in some footy 100 businesses a software startup um a few other businesses from there and then I found myself back into consultancy branching out as myself under Daren taylor.com and kind of working with clients on an individual basis both from a fractional perspective so in in a business kind of

understanding the business challenges using PPC as one of the tools of of many but also just straight you know auditing PPC accounts and working with clients on their strategies so it's uh been a bit of a journey but it's been fun um and yeah really really really interested in uh in digital marketing as a whole to be honest yeah well it's amazing to have you here and and the obviously you know I like talking with a lot of different ppcs but one of the things I do like is I always like the experience when someone

can bring both sides of the table and that's that's what I my intro into Google ads was I actually ran my first campaign by um doing for my own business so I just think it's oh wow my biggest encouragement to anyone out there is is if you're serious about this sort of a digital marketing career at some stage try to hop on both sides don't just stay on the the agency side or the freelancer side also try to get into an in-house team because you do definitely see it from a completely different perspective yeah and

it allows you to ask the questions as well it's really interesting you can ask the questions from both sides yeah yeah and I think also too we can sometimes get just so blinded by the stats within the Google Edge dashboard but just knowing that look it's an important point to look at but ultimately I always come back and say it's it's what's happening in the in the in the bottom line of the business especially if you're dealing with a small to medium business it's it's always got to do with the not not just the revenue

but the profit that's um coming down at the bottom 100% definitely yeah all right well today we're going to be talking about keyword match types and the reason for why I guess I probably wanted to get you to talk about this is that we' both got a similarity in that we've been in Google ads you know way back since 2010 2011 so we've we've been along this long journey of how Google has been changing uh match types the first thing I'd really probably like to ask is um you know what differences of any do you

see between exact match and uh and phrase match since Google has changed the way that match types operate and I've really be honing on since from about the late 2021 2022 yeah what what what do you see the differences between those two match types yeah it's um it's interesting as you say it's been a bit of a journey and I think for for me when I look at Phase match um it's it's becoming a little bit defunct I never used to think like that for me it used to be kind of a go-to match type

after modified broad match disappeared but phase became less phrase and became very much close to Broad and then exact was no longer exact and it became much more close to phrase um so it's kind of taken a backward step on both sides of it but I think going back to your question I think the main difference I typically see when I look into accounts is yes exact match is no longer exact and it does Branch out Way Beyond the the keyword itself but with phrase it collects way more Search terms than exact is what I

find so for example I work with an Architecture Firm and we've tried phrase and we've tried exact as kind of a test to kind of see what traffic quality changes happen and what conversion rate changes happen as a result of that and what I found interesting is on phrase we match to a ton of competitive keywords so when you think of the industry of architecture you have companies and you have um individuals so an individual architect will set up a practice so you'll just get a bunch of names appearing in the search terms like James

Smith Architects or Tom Jones Architects or whatever but that never happened with exact so there's still a good difference between the two in terms of terms they collect um yeah but I think for me phase is still pretty much way more open than EX in a lot of ways it kind of you know exact for me is is is definitely going to give you more quality even though it's not exact anymore yeah and and the thing I mean I agree with your sentiments in regards to like I've said for so long I missed the days

of broad match modifiers and you know uh single single QA groups and all those things but I I do also understand why the changes have been made and I think that's one thing too that we can get on to at a later date but one of the things that I would I guess probably like to add to your comments there is and I think you hit it right that Bray sort of operates more like Broad and exact operates old school probably like a broad batch modifier or something like that butan it does reach out a

little bit further but my I guess my issue that I have with phas match at the moment is if we both agree that that is the case the problem then lies that broad match if it's acting more like broad match but broad match does have more signals to it so then it becomes the case of you know I yeah where it sort of sits there so this probably leads into the next question would be you know what type of match types do you you users to go to now and when and how do you use

each one hello there and I hope you're enjoying my latest interview I just wanted to quickly let you know that all of these interviews are sponsored by my paid Google ads Community which is called the Google ads Mastery Community I set this community up for one clear purpose and that is so that I could provide people with direct Google ads support and we do this in three main ways firstly we run weekly live calls and these are live calls that are run in all different time zones so that we can get the support to you

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tailored Google ad support for a very low price right now we're going to get right back into the interview but if you'd like to find out more information about how you could join and plus also get a lifetime discount to join my Google ads Mastery Community just follow the link in the description below okay so I say I think the the main thing for me is conversion data in an account yeah you might have a new business starting a new kind of campaign and they haven't got any conversion data or they started again in some

respects and there's nothing there so you want to be a bit more controlled so you might start with exact and then migrate to Broad match at a later date if there's an account with loads of data typically I go with with broad match I never used to it's been a bit of a journey getting to this stage um I think you know if you look back at my YouTube video archives there'll be many a video of me criticizing broad match um probably you know three years ago four years ago fight you know and and even

after they made the announcement that broad match is now smart match and it was kind of a I think it was jinny Marvin Marvin at um search engeland said you know made the announcement I was still highly skeptical I was massively skeptical so I didn't really use it but as time's gone on Broad match is amazing it's an amazing match type and you'll be surprised even with not as you probably don't need as much data as you think to to make it work when you compare it to the performance of definitely phrase but sometimes even

exact in in some respects again it depends on industry if it's high volume then to me it's a no-brainer if it's a lot lower volume a lot more Niche if it's kind of B2B broad is not amazing for B2B um you just can't find those signals in the right way it kind of goes towards the consumer side a little bit sometimes but generally speaking any new account that's got data I will pretty much go with broad match yeah the the one thing I actually asked this question to jinnie uh she put a post up about

it and I haven't got a response back because it was actually about back in I think it was 2022 now was that wasn't in regards to actual keyword match typ it's in regards to just before they fa phased out expanded text ads they released it was 2,000 Impressions per month in order to test a headline so what my question was phrasing was because that previously a year before that it was at 5,000 so they released 5,000 then I went to 2000 and then they stopped releasing that data so ask the question what is the current

viewpoint on on testing but where that comes back to is that over time Google has gotten a lot better with picking up signals and matching user attent with what we're achieving the thing that really I guess probably opened my eyes to Broad match and the possibilities of broad match I do agree with you though that it's very much better on the consumer side not B2B um was I the way that it happens um from a Searcher so not not not thinking the advertiser thinking the actual Searcher and the recommendations have gotten a lot better so

I spent this was this was actually two years ago so a while about we spent two months over in Japan so the previous eight months so two months in Japan previous six months was my whole search history was about Japanese accommodation Japanese tourism all of those things everything to do with that the week I got back there was pretty severe um dog attack in our in our area and there was listing out listing out all dog breeds and one of the dog breeds was the Japanese corser so I I I searched this Filipino dog first

these were the list of ban dogs and then I typed in ja and it recommended the Japanese torsa and that so that was so that that really opened my eyes to go how quickly Google is picking up the the actual Searcher intent and that was off my second search knowing that everything previously was all about Japan tourism places to live as soon as I typed in that ja because it was on my second dog search it it it recommended that that was the intuitively and that's the thing that opened up my oh okay this is

this is where broad match can work and why it can be so effective yeah it's crazy I've seen accounts where you look at the searge terms report and that that's why I I'm not that aggressive adding negatives anymore I kind of hold back a little bit more longer than I normally would have done with the old school kind of Scag setup exact match um that kind of that kind of era because I've seen Search terms that should have no right whatsoever to convert and they convert and then when you check in on the data in

the back end of a CRM system in in the lead gen world and you kind of ask the client you know is is this a good lead that's a strange search they go yeah it converted we made a sale or it's been a good conversation or whatever it might be and it's kind of like well why are they typing this in so one of my clients is a a Broadband comparison website here in the UK and you look at their Search terms on Broad match and one of their top converting Search terms that they see

and they won't mind me saying this because it's so common is just the term wi-fi people aren't typing in Broadband deals they're typing in things like you know compare Broadband or fast speeds in my area that kind of stuff is what you'd expect to see in a Search terms report not just the word Wi-Fi now there's obviously millions of searches taking place for the word Wi-Fi but Google knows when to dip in and out of that search when it comes to the person's profile so when I started seeing stuff like that it makes me think

well Google's way ahead of any optimizations we can do in that situation where they've got the data um just let them let them do it and and it typically works yeah I look I agree with you on that I'm actually um historically I've been you know pretty proactive on um adding in negative keywords but I'm also trying I'm actually St for me now it more comes down into especially if you're dealing with broad batch I still prefer to have a longer tale broad match keyword to help Google with the intent so I generally try to

have three or four words in it and then also make sure that the the landing page is is really really relevant because so the go got that data but yeah it is right like I'm I'm more hesitant to add in negative keywords than what I was previously yeah I agreed I think it's one of those things that Google intent matching has become so good when it comes to what consumers are looking for and how they're behaving it can kind of it can it understands intuitively what people are doing online and I think it can match

that to your campaigns really effectively now so I I typically give it the opportunity to do so more so than kind of reing things in um some advertisers you do need to reain things in there might be a very niche as you say B2B or or even just the niche industry where it's not B2B and you have to reain things in but in a situation where you get loads of conversions you've got a wide large Market to address broad match for me is is is better than any match type out there at the moment yeah

and 100% agree with I think we should probably talk about that a little bit so we've spoken about obviously um I think we both agree from what we're saying that broad match is great especially when there's you know larger data pools or or business to Consumer type product in terms of B2B or when you're really really Niche so is that a place where you're still probably leading off with exact match instead a broad match yeah 100% so I've got a couple of B2B clients and one of them does stuff that's um that massively could cross

over into consumer and that would be a big problem um because the difference between consumer inquiries and and a commercial inquiry for this customer is massive to to put things in perspective this this business does um a lot of Av hire um so they're looking at people who want to hire for example massive large format LED screens for events so if you have like an awards night with a with a screen behind you that massive kind of 6 S8 meter wide screen that's pure LED tiles that's the work they want but they don't want anything

you know consumer which is you know TV screens screen higher um and that kind of thing so you know there's there's two very different markets there and they don't want anything to do with the consumer side for me exact match is pretty much the only way we've been able to control that yeah no and I mean in some cases too in cases like that I'll even take it a step further and even really work with the client and go look at the moment or the seeable future we can't even go into smart Bing like we're

going to have to keep this on a manual just because like we we had a client that that they were in a very very Niche engineering so it wasn't they actually draw like the schematics for the tooling machines for like Avengers would come to them so it was like a but they could have like a lead that would be worth ,000 or lead that would be worth five $500,000 like the range was that big and um I said to we said repeatedly that you're going have to stick with exact match and would never really I

can't really see if at the moment they're moving across to maximize conversion so I think the biggest thing is I say to people is just keep in mind of the business don't go with only do broad match or only do exact just think the use Cas agree with that yeah business first business use case first every single time if if if it's not justified in the business you know that Niche example you gave there then as you say you don't really want to kind of try and push people towards smart bidding when intuitively and you

know in the data you can see there's just not an opportunity there for it to work all right so we' spoken about Broad and exact let's now talk about uh phrase and it's kind of been I I actually call it now the the poor men's broad match um it's um like a you you know are you using it or do you kind of see any use case for it at the moment um intuitively it's it's something I I I struggle with a little bit because I have clients who have been on Broad match and when

they um when they get results from Google ads they need the the cost per lead to come in a very strict cost um they've gone on to Broad match and they've struggled to kind of get the cost in at the right level it's kind of a game of volume more so than than controlling costs and I think to get the balance right they've seen we we've seen that you know phrase match has worked better for that particular scenario the issue I've got is we don't know why it's it's one of those weird things where intuitively

broad match should be where they're at because they've got enough conversion data but then it just hasn't really worked that well in terms of you know the Search terms can be a bit wild we've used phras match to kind of R rain things in and it has rained things in um exact was a bit too restrictive because we did like a bit of openness because a lot of random competitors would pop up on on phrase match and they did con Ros on exact match kind of pulling that list together reactively is is near on Impossible

because there's so many competitors in this particular industry so phrase worked pretty well for this particular client but in all honesty I'm thinking how many people can I say that about clientwise and how many people I've worked with that that I can say that with probably literally that one one use case is the only one that comes to mind um that's it yeah I think we're at the same so it's one or two and it's purely just because it's an older account and phrase match is working and because it's working we're still able to scale

it I'm just going this I just don't see the point of CH changing it but I pretty much like you is that I would very much be on either broad match or exact match or combination of Broad and exact very very rarely especially for a new account would I really use phrase match at all yeah agreed that's that's the thing I think if you're looking at match types that are are not you know not long for this world so to speak I think I think phras is is definitely on The Chopping Block we know what

Google wants to do and I think from an advert from a account management point of view life could be a bit e easier for newer advertisers if they were less match types to consider and if you look at the options available kind of Target traffic or kind of smart bidding that's kind of you know based on on user Behavior intent and using a lot more signals so being a bit more open you got two two clear routs or two clear options there and phase is kind of sitting in the middle kind of the worst of

Both Worlds in a way yeah look I I think I I definitely do see a world uh where phrase match doesn't exist anymore part of me even thinks that the the reason why Google hasn't removed it is just basically just to stop a bit of resistance because people would would fire up about it but when you when you look at we're very much gone like especially you know you go rewind pre 2020 those three match types worked very very differently and they were very like the very very different use cases now as you say like

I think broad match and phras match just work so closely together now except with phrase match you're not getting the the extra signals which which Google calls in so that's it that's I guess probably my problem with it uh and and why don't use it as a go-to case let's now talk about um given the the types with with match types I mean one of the biggest tasks of a a Google ads manager for for many years especially when you studed a new account was keyword research and your your ad group structure and that so

with the changes with match types and how they operate how has this changed the way that you do your keyword research what does your keyword research look like now so I think one of the things I I advise clients is there's no harm in adding all keywords that you deem relevant for your business and there's no harm in doing that um as long as it's relevant to what you do and it's kind of exactly in line with with what your offer is then there's no harm so I know for example you might have a handful

of keywords in in a keyword research through through um Keyword Planner that kind of if you didn't have five of this particular keyword variation and you only had one of them Google will probably still serve your ads for all five variations anyway in terms of Search terms because BL match is that open it can match those things so it makes keyword research I suppose it should be less intensive in a lot of ways because you don't need to cover every single exact thing if you're going for the broad match approach but I always say there's

no harm in in in adding keywords that are relevant in terms of structure that's a big change a massive change because you know we're not we're not in a world where you have to have an amazingly perfect segmented structure um with like dozens and dozens of AD groups based on pure relevancy like in the days of skag setups that those days for me are long gone and I think broad match being where it is now and the the smart matching that we're seeing from from those searches for me it it doesn't justify the work involved

in setting things up in a Scag perspective and I think it makes Google's life more difficult as well in terms of the ability to to bid effectively spend budgets effectively you know I've seen one of the most common things I do at the moment when auditing accounts is unifying campaigns where there's where there's the justification so splitting things out just because of the keyword is not really a good approach anymore you split things out based on on business use case in terms of targeting and that kind of thing but um for me I think keyword

research wise it should be a much more light lighter touch approach and I think what most people will find is 70 or 80% of their key of their of their Search terms will come from 20% or so of their keywords so it's the process is a bit different to how it used to be I still would cover all bases just as a kind of you know there's no harm in doing so but if you're worried about not having 600 keywords in your account and you only have 400 I wouldn't worry about that necessarily no no

I yeah like so for me I just the way I kind of explain it through to clients especially if they've got some previous experience with Google ads and they're you know they're starting a new business or something like that and that they've seen like you know historically they would have got like a you know a Google sheet with campaign structure and masses amounts of keywords and then when you get them back and go hey look we got two campaigns with two a groups in each one and three keywords to start with it does shock them

a little bit but um the way expain obviously you've got to think on the reverse is that if the key we're targeting is now a lot more broader that means that we need less amount of AD groups because previously when the keyword Target is were a lot more structured you would need more ad groups to really break out to those different themes whereas you don't need that now so yeah and I've always found too I don't like your opinion on this or your perspective on this I've always found in a search campaign this is over

the last two years if I have anything more than five ad groups generally it goes between like two or three ad groups get all the spend even if they're in different like different themes I I found that I've had to break them out into a separate campaign yeah that's right Google goes in a direction it finds what it's looking for it's bidding optimization and when it finds it it ignores everything else um so you get in a situation as you say where you'll have ad groups in in in setups that are getting nothing they're getting

literally no visibility and you know the search is there um you know that people are looking for it but Google is just what for whatever reason decided we're going to go narrow here because we're finding leads in this direction or sales in this direction so we're not going to necessarily need to Branch out it's kind of like Google doesn't want to roll the dice with them anymore um so segmentation and splitting things out there's an argument for that as as a result of of of that scenario but it is strange it is strange because you

think with bid with with smart bidding you kind of think Google's job is to find leads or sales at a certain um return or a certain cost and if one of those levers it has of doing that is an ad group that you're you're actively bidding on that's that's active and in your account you think Google would leverage that but I feel like Google doesn't want to roll the dice on that when they know there's a sure thing over here and it kind of leaves behind potentially some some important services for a business and segmentation

as you say there is is really important yeah and I think one thing that I've probably found this isn't just with Google ads any type of AI I really find that is always it's all about efficiency so it always likes to find the the least path of resistance and that's I think that's what's happening there is it goes look we know we know the traffic here we know what's happening here so we're just going to keep pounding down on this side keyword theme or this accr that's it 100% okay now there's a bit of bit

of whisper in the Google ads circles about this uh new term called search Max have you have you looked into it or what are your thoughts on on how it's going to roll out or what it's going to be so I heard it come up U when I was doing my usual kind of news cycles and looking through different um news sources and then I got on a call with one of my clients and um Google rep not not the Reps that are kind of the sales people but the ones based in Dublin or whatever

in head office so they they spend quite a bit of money so that they've got dedicated account management and she bought it up and said you know this is coming um and I said can we go on the beta and she said you're not big enough and I was like okay thanks for telling us but um we we can't even join the beta but it's fine and so I looked into a bit more and I thought well there's nothing really new here in a way there's not a lot really new it's kind of unifying existing

components you've got you know broad match is an existing component Dynamic search ads you know the um URLs in your website that using your your website as a as kind of a um a point for for Google to use as a data point to find find clients and and bid that exists already performance Max as as we know it exists already so it's not really anything new it's kind of unifying elements that already exist but I suppose by unifying them what they're trying to do is again kind of simplify the search product um maybe it's

good for onboarding new clients who from Google's perspective who aren't sophisticated advertisers yet because they don't know how to set things up with structures with keyword match types Etc is kind of a plug andplay solution for search which could be quite powerful for for a new Advertiser but again it goes back to Google's main objective and it's kind of you know I can foresee a world where Google really wants to TI the box of one challenge which is to onboard as many new new advertisers as possible that only happens when you remove complexity if it

gets too complex people become apprehensive and it causes a barrier so they remove that barrier but also I suppose is um if they open things up with a um product that's AI based you don't get much data out of it though I did see Search terms are coming to pmax but I've not seen it in any interfaces yet no no I haven't seen it yet that that's it so that that's that it's good news I'm not going to you know I'm not going to complain that they they've announced it it's definitely good news for for

us as advertisers but ultimately Google's goal is you know we we want to intuitively understand what your business is doing we want to generate assets for you that's already in the system we want to generate the traffic for you based on those assets based on your website based on kind of you know intuitively what people are typing in and their behaviors online and how they're interacting with your campaign and we want to take it all away from you now yeah in in a in in an Ideal World it sounds like a positive thing because um

in all honesty when I'm auditing client accounts some accounts I'm auditing I look at their Google ad set up and I think there's nothing wrong here but there's something with wrong with their website or their offer or their positioning they haven't thought about this and a lot of what I'm doing is outside of the interface so that's not a bad thing in a way but I think we still need to see the data we still need to see what's inside the the black box how is it working how can we steer it or control it

and if we remove you know Google's been taking levers away from advertisers levers of control for for years now and it's going to culminate in this kind of situation where we don't have any um yeah and that's not the best position to be in because it means we don't know where our spend is going and search term data I've got clients who are getting 30% visibility on Search terms sometimes and it's not a good it's not it's really not good Google wins that we don't win that to be honest I've been pretty surprised with some

of the roll outs with performance Max that are coming out with the the Search terms and the C negative keywords so like I I didn't think Google would give way on on those requests so it's been interesting and now they're even talking about obviously sorry they made the announcement they're going to be releasing network data so you're going to see your search shopping display spend so these are all things I didn't think they release I think a lot of people were a little bit worried about search Max U I think it's just going to be

a rolling in as you say rolling in of dynamic I I do potentially see Dynamic search going away and basically being rolled in as as this search Match a search Match which is essentially what it's going to be doing my understanding of search Max Max is it's basically just like a dynamic search it's just taking you're not giving the keyword you're just giving the the URL and it's taking the keyword data from the URL so it's basically another extension of what broad match does yeah that kind of makes sense I think that's that's that's kind

of what the um the direction Google wants to go in is is kind of yeah we see your website we know what you do intuitively as a result of looking through that and matching traffic to that now all we need from you is your credit card that's basically where I see things going yeah um for the For Better or For Worse look I another would like to chat on before we finish as well because this is one thing that I I don't think enough digital marketers are paying attention to is that is really thinking about

the reason for why these changes are happening my view on this and I'd be interested to get your view my view on this is the reason for why there's been so many changes happening is because the user experience is going to change on this Google search site I think chat gbt is is going to be taking but let's let's be real it's still only 5% of market share as of last year that will definitely grow but I also see the biggest change would be inside of why people do Google search so the biggest change that

I'll Be Seeing is is that once people do that initial keyword research that it will switch over to a chatbase search and that's where all of these things become really really important because what you what you're going to be seeing is is there's going to be rather than you know search four placements at the top the six at the bottom the chatbot is going to be or your agent is going to be recommending maybe one or two ads so that's where this this type of when we talk about search Match we talk about Broad intent

for me that's where where it's all wrapped into and that's why Google is going down that path because traditional search is not going to be there in in the years to come that makes a lot of sense um when you when you when you phrase it like that because for me as as you say people are going to stop using traditional search in the long term potentially that's that's on the table we can see that for sure that conversation based chatbot experience is something Google is aware of and interestingly I saw a report it might

have been even today or even yet maybe yesterday a Google exec accidentally let slip that it's a bit of an issue or it's just a bit of a frustration that they have to send traffic to websites they actually let slip that actually Google we want everyone to get everything they need from Google not from someone else's website so it's a bit of an issue that people are going to websites and we're sending traffic to websites I don't know whether he was meant to say that or whether it's slipped but uh it it tells you exactly

kind of what you said there is you know people are going the Google are moving away from that typical search experience they're very aware that chat GPT is going to eat its lunch if they're not so that kind of ties into the experience of you know moving away from keywords focusing on intent focusing on website content and tying that into replying to prompts with website content based on on what the person's looking for that intuitively ties together yeah which is why I think I've say to every business this is the year that you should be

starting to dabble into video content because when you look at the when you look at obviously Google is that's why they're leaning so heavy into YouTube and with demand gen and those things as well is because they know that they've got to they've got to replace what they're going to be losing with the Google search and they're going to be replacing that with YouTube YouTube revenue and video Revenue so and look additionally on that as well um we've seen really great results with search campaigns being increased by adding in a video campaign or demand gen

campaign on top of it as well yeah no that's really positive I think that kind of that kind of set up in an account where you're kind of filling up the top of the funnel and mid funnel on top of search and and and building that kind of audience for what you do is is is a really really good way to scale accounts and I think when businesses are ready to do that when they can actually produce the content that can get cut through that can deliver then it's a really good tool to have really

good yeah definitely all right so as a wrap up so let's just for for people listening because we are talking about keywords is that obviously don't be afraid to use broad match but very much it's probably more you're seeing better results in the business consumer Market exact match is probably still the king for B2B or very very super Niche markets is is that that what we're saying there and then obviously just be open to your structures you may have to play around a merge campaigns and merge gu groups together because we I brought a keyword

to match there hey Darren it's been an absolute pleasure having you here I'm just for anyone watching you if you go into the description notes I've got some links on where you can find Darren has his own YouTube channel which produces amazing content and also we'll put a link into his website as well but yeah I don't know if you got any final remarks but it's been an absolute pleasure having you here Darren no it's been amazing um I watch your stuff all the time and it's really amazing to talk to you um it's been

the first time and it's been a fantastic chat so I look forward to hopefully more in the future as well look forward to it mate thank you thank you take care