[Music] all right fantastic okay so uh welcome everybody to the round table talk my name is Jane I'm the CEO of book of Vista and I have a special guest with me today um this is a fellow architect in our community and he's built the uh Villa for shaffrey who is the VP of data science at coack your back yeah yes hello everyone my name is m prawa I'm an architect professional architect and I am graduated from udayana University and also graduated in University of Indonesia for oh wow master program excellent okay and now I'm
basically uh I am a lectur also oh wow yeah I'm a lecture in wadwa University in Pasar and I'm also doing architectural work with along with my team and now we are busy doing some the last project perfect perfect okay all right that's a very excellent background so you studied in Bali and then you went to pretty much the best university in Indonesia to get a master maybe yeah well between that it's a it's okay and then after that you uh you lecture here in Bali what what topics do lecture about at the moment uh
at the moment I am teaching about structure okay very good structure and housing housing and U I am also teaching about architectural Studios architectural Studio how to design buildings to okay so it seems like you probably have quite a lot of knowledge about architecture and probably current knowledge then too as well I'm I'm curious like say yeah like what are the what are some of the hard questions your clients come to ask you about like when you take on a client like say let's say shaffrey right what what questions challenge you what questions challenge you
to think more deeply about architecture um the main question I think uh how to design such a complex space in a a very tiny okay so maximizing the size okay got that's the problem I encounter when I designing Masia freas okay because he has a lot of needs I want P I want bedrooms I want yeah things I want bar I want lunch pool okay so in only uh two 200 2008 200 M square square meters wow okay that's a very efficient use of that land that's that stimulates you to I'm guessing to be very
creative to how to build on yeah it's it's quite challenging for me so I I bet I bet it's fun also it's fun also I like to um doing some layouting okay yeah uh so I think the main question for me and for Designing architecture is how to maximize the sites I see okay so it's a lot to do with uh sounds like a chef right so you're giving this ingredient and then how to actually bring out the best results good thing we're going to be eating soon so we'll see how how how the chef
actually applies to to this okay um what do you think are sort of like the questions that a good client should be asking an architect what are some things that would help them understand the process so that they have I think the most uh delightful experience when working together with you I I wish they would ask me about what's your interest in architectural style that's because um every architect has their own style oh that's right right right right like me I um especially likees modern style minimalism style like M so I think when we when
we started to talk about uh The Architects um specialty MH it will guide through the process of okay designing more easily understood understood so that's an important question maybe a lot of clients don't understand right they should probably understand what is your particular approach yes uh because if they don't they might get disappointed later and I want this okay got it got it okay so understanding the architect style is important what are some questions that you think are important for understanding the client so before you decide to let's say work with a particular client what
do you want to understand about them first I want to understand about why do you need this building ah yes okay understood understood yes I need to understand that first because some people create uh design for profit right designning for family yes it's a different approach okay we we often actually do classify the exact same way so we ask people if they do it for investment or for lifestyle and it is a different approach it has to be built for I think and a book of Vista we see that if you're building it for your
lifestyle then it can be customized to how you want to live right yes but if you're building it for investment you are generally you need to follow what your guests are willing to pay you for okay budget budget is the first we need to think about when you talk about budget do you mean how much they want to actually earn in terms of budget from renting the property how much they willing to invest into building the property yes yes the the the second one yeah budget for okay and uh budget can be kind of an
awkward conversation I'm thinking right Syndicate like Kaku but how do you generally have a professional discussion about budget while keeping I think the expectations correct I mean do you have to do you have to struggle with it sometimes and tell them no if you want all this I can't fit your budget or what how do you manage expectations of a client um um maybe uh the simple simple way is I first I tell them what I'm special what my specialty is okay and then if they want to uh optimize their money okay yeah we can
do we can do it uh uh along the way I see okay got it just do it with we will um like um do do it inside the process yeah right along the process we do it do you think it's important for the client to understand that any sort of changes needs to be budgeted rather than because I I I happen to work in project management before and variation orders and change orders I think if that's not well Managed IT can really get kind of difficult for an architect and also can be difficult for the
client so what is what is the way to Let's say allow for the client to still be creative but also not essentially then start doing work that you you know kind of outside the scope and all this other particulars actually uh for in my own practice I I just let the client flow their ideas really okay just like what M do okay because he has so many ideas right right I'm just listening listening and then I I I create some list okay and then after I hearing all their thoughts and then I I start to
tell the clients about you can do this okay you can do this and you can do this because of this like right right okay so you listen to the client and then you make some proposals proposal yeah like the um what what will you get if you if you uh use like design like this what could you get I I explained it to him if it's okay okay got it and and when you make these proposals what are sort of the constraints that you're thinking about are you thinking necessarily about let's say the uh the
rentability profitability or just the lifestyle element or environment what what is uh kind of helping you to actually make each particular proposal um particular proposal the first one I think the the client needs and the clients needs like the client needs for architectural style okay got it so based on their particular needs for the style okay all right I in my projects I I don't um I don't actually have a particular style MH uh uh but it's like I'm combining what I lik with what my clients like and it create some kind of form okay
command between two minds like that but but this is kind of okay so I'm going to catch you on this one right because you said that your client should understand your particular style and then now you're saying that essentially you you will follow the client style so how do you balance that because if they if they keep on wanting too many changes it isn't your signature anymore right it becomes something that's that's sort of different but if you don't I guess listen then then the client feels like they're not being heard right for me it's
not the it's not the most important thing is not my signature but my client's Comfort okay so you you build for user okay user Comfort is my first priority okay because I if I insist using my own style I think not everyone like it yes okay got it yeah like it how do you know the client knows more than you because sometimes I think that's a tough one right you're a professional you have the experience you teach architecture and then a lot of times we're dealing with clients this is their very first time that they've
actually built a house and uh they might not have your expertise but they insist on a particular position or a particular way and then later on maybe you already see let's say 3 months 6 months or after they move in they might have a conflict with that do you do you just kind of let it happen or like what's sort of like the best um I'm giving you all the hard questions right so what are sort of like you think the best ways that that you can lead a client or guide a client in this
particular direction uh I uh the easiest way I tell them that the the consequence will be there uh um they will be have an uncomfortable okay got it that's first and then the you will also if you have uh happening that you will uh need a lot of money again okay maybe doing some like of course okay renovate the house so it's better to to yeah just just let me let me do my work and then so get the space right okay okay what if if you had to choose what what type of client is
the best fit for you like is it a person looking to build a lifestyle property is it a person looking to build an investment property is it a person who has never been to Bali is it a person who always comes to Bali if you were to say what type of clients get along best with you what what would you say their style would be um um I think the client who wants to live in Bali and experience Bali got it in their own way okay yeah that's the very best CL for me I think
okay got it and this is always a good question which is there are so many Architects or so many people who even ask to be architecture and and more and more there's there's things in AI like mid Journey that can really create instantaneous renderings and design so how do you deal with your competitors how do you you deal with the other options your clients might have to find somebody who can design a comfortable property for them what's what's your approach um uh my Approach is the the design process I think okay all right AI doesn't
have a design process not yet okay yeah and the the same process uh uh or design approach that is uh it is different from one architect to another architect correct okay understand because it depends on what they think first and what their priority first so that is the m uh the main unique selling point for Architects I think your design process yes okay if somebody's buying your process what sort of benefits can they expect like in this process how are how's your process going to make them more comfortable or add more maybe value to the
rentals uh if we do The Descent through this design process I think the the outcome mhm will be a design that is uh optimalized like that okay got it so it it will minimize the race okay of um of of the construction of the the race the what it the hazard like that your uh your client shaffrey told me this one of his uh the the best reasons he he used this exact language actually he said I chose um your team to be my Architects because you abstracted away a lot of the complications that normally
there's having to get permitting licenses all these particulars but he could just kind of work on the high level with you and all the other things would just get taken care of I think that was that's probably a direct benefit of that design process you're talking about right yeah okay very good um perhaps we can experience your work visually here I got an iPad here um how can I find any examples of your work on the Internet is there anything that you show me okay sure uh we'll put it right there okay yes okay so
okay so uh s has shown me essentially his Instagram page and uh wow these are pretty interesting okay so so what I'm seeing here is that you have some designs that are fairly modern um this is an AIG office is this for studio uh no actually I am creating some um uh so houses okay okay got it got it okay perfect perfect um how how applicable is it to go from let's say doing commercial architecture to uh to residential architecture is it kind of like the what you were saying about style before is it is
it easy to go from Style to Style or is it like a completely different sort of animal um I think it's uh it's a it's what can I say uh sometimes it's easy something it's hard dep on the style okay okay what what are what would you say would be let's say actually there's a fun question what is a project that really tests the skills of yourself and that would test the skills of a of a very accomplished architect what kind of project would be let's say the like okay let's say if you're a chef
right yes if you're a chef the general test is they make you cook eggs and something usually simple like poaching an egg and putting a hollay sauce on it is there any particular way that you see that an architect can sort of showcase their particular competency their skill set in a simple test that you can recommend um designing a house I think yeah because I think the the very complicated uh function of building is a house oh really okay every person has their different needs of hous and has a different meaning of house how do
you evaluate a house though I mean there's there's simple houses like this thing here but then there's really beautiful houses what what is then your criteria for saying what is a great house and what is a not such great house a great house is a house that is can accommodate every needs of the living family there interesting okay so every needs so basically a great house is built comfortably custom set to what okay interesting interesting what okay what are some mistakes you would say that that um can be avoided by let's say in a client
architect relationship like let's say the has the client fully expressed all their particular ideas yet or if they have an unrealistic approach what what are some of the things that you think you would advise to a person shopping for an architect to think through clearly before they actually commit to building a house I need they need to think first about the room needs the bedrooms the bathrooms okay like that and then is is uh and they of course they are living cultures like that okay like um for Westerner and Asian people is created uh a
different uh houses oh yeah yeah I would agree different layout sorry yeah so that's that's why in my my first question is for design what what room what kind of room he needs I see I see okay how much do you need a bathroom is it uh share bathroom you you you like or everyone has their own bedrooms understood understood okay and I'm actually curious in most cases uh let's say you're building a house for a couple are you dealing mostly with the the the male spouse or the female spouse are you dealing with the
creative one or who generally do you have to uh who generally is your client in this particular cases I think the the dominant one is the female really yeah okay okay yeah there something that they yeah okay so then the female is deciding essentially what the Comfort level and the design okay got it and um in in in this particular regard um what sort of considerations do you find to be the most highest priority right like I'm thinking if you're dealing with a male client they're probably going to ask about cost and about like resourcing
material but let's say for your female clients what are some of their first priorities in terms of how to actually uh talk with you and understand what's going to be built in the house the first thing that um female clients will ask me um I think uh the living room oh yeah the living room and the kitchen okay is it is it comfortable can you design like this right because I will invite my friends the heartland of a home isn't it yeah that's true right I can see that I can see that okay all right
so once you get that under control then you're 80% done yeah okay okay interesting and uh let's say about particulars about let's say people have questions about a bill of material or a permit or you know any of the one of the boring but necessary parts of actually creating a a comfortable home especially if it's for rental um how do you answer those questions like what do you say to somebody who's like do I need a building permit uh what sort of advice do you offer let's say people who ask questions about permits questions about
costs um yeah I'm just kind of curious what what that would be um regarding permits I think I will uh make sure they create a permit for all right is that an architect's job or is that that is architect job okay professional ethics like that I see okay I need to remind all of our clients to to uh to do the permit before they do the the building construction I see okay got it got it okay and the and for let's say the cost and everything um of a particular project how like okay when a
projected client has an idea how quickly is an architect able to cost out the idea right let's say they want to say I want to add an extra bedroom and such are you able to sort of immediately give a quick wole of thumb and say that will cost an extra 500 million for that or do you have to do some research and what's the usual process like uh uh I I I usually use uh like a quick count okay using um uh average um uh a r of square oh okay got it got it can
you share that with us like what is the average cost per square meter to build and Vol like say three star four star Five Star level um if if it's not uh one Lael buildings uh um I think it's around three if it uh depends on the function also if it's a f or Resort okay it's it's regards as uh um luxurous building okay it will cost uh 5 to seven million per met Square per square meter okay and that's everything right that's fixing the land putting the foundation in all the way up to the
top yeah does that include the roof too or yes yes oh wow okay but that's a quick count maybe the tolerance is around 20% 15% on that okay got it and that's excluding furniture and anything like that right uh with Furniture not not including electronics and Furniture right no sorry that's uh exclude the furniture okay just architectural works okay got it um luxury has many levels would you say that's like a three star level a Four Star level or like a five star level if I'm like St Regis or like four seasons on that would
it still be five million or would it be um yeah uh yeah it it depends it it depends okay if it's like a five star hotel maybe it can get around uh 15 million okay 15 million per square meter okay all right that's pretty handy right so that's a quick way that let's say anybody who is looking to add more building area okay and when you when you decide let's say on your land on your ingredient um is there a certain percentage that is too much to build on do you usually go like is it
40% 60% 80% can you build on 100% of the land or what's what's like is there any rule of thumb for that in in general uh oh in Indonesia I oh sorry mainly in Bali I think from 100% of the land you can only build uh mainly 15 50% to 60 Okay so to keep 50% open anyways okay the rest is for the open space okay got it got it does does pool count as open space or yes yes pool Garden okay especially got it okay what sort of advice would you have for people who
are less experienced in their process for building a home what what sort of uh mistakes are possible what sort of uh you know let's say you've gone down the road and then they realize oh I went the wrong way now I have to demolish everything begin again it do you see any type of let's say uh issues that you can advise a client so that they can like find an architect like you and be more successful in their journey to finding a holiday home building a holiday home I think the first thing is the position
of the bedroom okay really okay bathroom and the bedroom that's the Mind point I think okay because uh if they don't fix the position of the bedroom in in the first place okay we cannot change the construction when it is already built oh you need to fix the okay those are critical points yeah the plumbing you need to fix it right right right what what are the mistakes that you can make with wrongly positioned bedroom like like you're just is there a wrong way to position it or what's the what's uh maybe it's uh especially
uh the openings okay few the few okay yeah so we need to ask first for them ask ask them first uh What uh which site of you you want to use as your mind I see so the orientation of the building orientation the build got it got it okay that sounds pretty crucial through the orientation we can position the B I understand understand okay got it so what what sort of last message maybe do you want to offer our audience here in terms of um your particular practice and how it makes it unique uh like
what what do you think is the best way to have the last impression to somebody who's who's watching this um I think the best the best architecture is a architecture that can be comfortably used M for everyone that live in the architecture okay that's for you're very consistent about that so the Comfort level okay the Comfort level you you should be a u ux designer I think very very accustomed to it okay this thank you so much for your questions and for answering our questions today and uh okay I guess that's the uh the the
episode of this 's Edition for the book of Vista Round Table talk and uh stay tuned for the next episode have a nice evening [Music] bye-bye
