Welcome to the channel "AFTER ALL, WHAT ARE WE?". Marcelo, in 2008, had to undergo surgery because of a 2 cm kidney stone. The surgery went well. However, shortly afterwards, he had an embolism, followed by a cardio-respiratory arrest ... and had an NDE. Since then, his understanding of life and death has changed ... a lot. Shall we know why? Good afternoon, Marcelo. Good afternoon, Carlos. Thank you very much for being here with us on the channel "AFTER ALL, WHAT ARE WE?" ... I will immediately pass the word to Dr. Edson Amâncio, who is going to conduct
your interview. Thank you very much in advance. I thank you, thank you very much. Hi, Marcelo, good afternoon. Hi, Dr Edson, good afternoon, how are you? I am fine, Marcelo, so today we are going to complete our previous chat about your experience. Actually, Marcelo, I have a series of questions to ask you but ... the word is yours ... I would like you to initially describe what happened to you ... when it happened ... where it happened ... the details ... of your experience ... then we'll go over the details of this experience you had.
Okay, Edson. Well, I've always had a problem with kidney stones since I was a kid. When I was very young, around 15, 16 years old ... I had to do a lithotripsy, which is to break the kidney stone with a laser ... because I had a very big stone. And when it was in 2008 ... more precisely in March 2008 ... I started feeling ... having kidney cramps again ... very severe pain ... I went to a doctor ... he requested an ultrasound and an x-ray of the kidneys ... the pain was in the right
kidney ... on the right side ... and ... I did it and the exams showed a stone of approximately 2 cm. The doctor then suggested me going through a surgical procedure ... he told me the following ... that due to the size of the stone ... if I were going to break with a laser ... do the lithotripsy as I had done many years before ... I would need to do it in two or three sessions, due to the size of the stone ... [on the other hand] the surgery is extremely simple ... we remove
the stone ... in 2, 3 days you are fine ... and you are free of that calculation at once. And I still commented with him ... I said ... "Dr ... but" ... the week he suggested having the surgery, which was on March 18, 2008 ... I was going to be a best man that Saturday ... that week ... I still talked to him ... I said ... "Dr ..." "on Saturday I have a wedding ... where I'm going to be best man." And he said ... "Be calm ... the surgery is very simple ...
you will be medicated ... on Saturday you can go to the wedding normally." So I agreed ... I had the surgery on March 18th ... in the late afternoon ... on March 19th in the morning I was removed to a normal room ... but ... I was in a lot of pain ... a lot of pain ... on my right side ... where the surgery had been done ... I had a lot of pain in my belly ... too ... I was feeling very heavy ... a general malaise. Then... around 7:30 am... approximately ... I
fainted ... the nurse was medicating me ... in the room ... and I fainted. It was the first one that I passed out in my life ... in that situation ... I had never passed out before. but it was very fast, Edson, I passed out ... and in a matter of seconds I came back. But quite scared ... actually I didn't even know exactly what had happened ... and the nurse said I had passed out ... and ... around 9:30 am ... my doctor came to visit me. He went into the room and said with
me ... "Oh ... the nurses said you passed out ... then I said ..." I passed out ... " then I commented with him ... " Dr .. .. I am not feeling well ... " "I am in a lot of pain ... I am very unwell ... a very strange feeling." He said to me like this ... "Marcelo ... stay calm ... that was because you passed out ... and you are impressed. " he said ..." And the fainting ... usually ... is due to the general anesthesia you took ... but your surgery was
a success ... " "we removed the stone ... we recorded the surgery... I'll give you the DVD for you to watch later ..." "don't worry ... that's because you are impressed with what happened." He said ... "I'm going to take the drain off your kidney ... I'm going to ask the nurse to take off the tube ..." "and after lunch I stop by to discharge you." And he did it ... he took off the drain ... the nurse took off the probe ... and I asked him ... I said ... "Are you sure that I
am okay to be discharged ... after lunch? " Because I felt really bad, Edson, very bad. And he said ... "Marcelo, don't worry ... you'll be fine after lunch ... you're going home." And he spoke jokingly ... "I didn't forget that you have a wedding on Saturday ... be calm." And he left. Then ... after a few minutes I wanted to urinate ... and I asked the nurse to help me go to the bathroom to urinate. I was wearing those hospital clothes ... it was like a lab coat ... a blue tunic ... I had
IV ... so she helped me go to the bathroom ... and ... after urinating ... I found out later ... because they told me ... that I spoke three times ... but I remember saying it twice ... I just remember holding her arm very tight ... and having told her like this ... "I'm dying ... I'm dying ..." And I blacked out. At that moment I lost consciousness ... there ... and that's when I had my NDE. At that moment, Edson, I found myself standing ... apparently in what would be a room ... the walls
... they were light ... there was no door in this room ... there was no bathroom door. ... they were just walls of light ... and ... behind me ... I was standing in front of my bed ... but it wasn't the hospital bed ... it wasn't that bed I was lying on ... the one where I was in the hospital room ... it was a normal bed, like a bed in a normal residence. and the bed was empty ... and ... I looked around, I looked at the walls ... I looked at that bed
... and ... I remember that I touched my body ... I touched my belly ... I touched my kidney ... the right side where I had the surgery ... I was not feeling anything anymore ... I had no more pain ... I was no longer feeling that malaise that I was feeling in the room ... and I also realized that I was not wearing that blue hospital outfit ... I was wearing a white outfit. It was a similar outfit ... it looked like a nightgown ... a tunic, but it was white. And for the first
time, I thought ... "I think I died." I touched my belly again ... I touched my back ... I didn't feel the place where I had been cut ... to do the surgery ... and I had the feeling that I really had died. At that moment ... I realized that ... on my left side ... below ... it started to spin ... something that was like a globe ... you know ... it was like a ball ... a globe ... with lots of lights ... it was very colorful ... and it started to rotate ...
and started to increase in volume ... started to increase in size ... it got bigger ... and .. suddenly ... this globe ... it was as if it dissolved, Edson, in several other globes ... in several other balls ... and it started to form and pass like a circle in front of me ... you know. ... and as it passed in front of my face ... I started to see my life ... my life started to pass before me there. I saw myself from my birth ... until the moment of the embolism ... there in
that hospital room. But ... the interesting thing ... it was as if each stage of my life ... for example ... my birth ... the phase when I was a child ... teenager ... with my family ... friends ... trips ... anyway ... it was as if I relived all that again ... it was like I was experiencing it all again ... I can't explain ... how long it lasted ... how did this happen ... I believe ... it is not possible to measure it in our chronological time ... because the time I stayed ...
told by doctors after ... informed by doctors ... was almost ten minutes ... but ... there it was like I had spent a lot of time ... reliving my whole life. After that ... this globe disappeared ... those lights ... these balls disappeared ... and then I realized that in front of me ... on the front wall ... of that room ... a tunnel had opened. It had a very big hole ... it was very big ... it was all dark ... and ... I heard a song ... I heard a very beautiful song ...
very beautiful ... it was a harmony that brought me a lot of peace ... a lot of tranquility ... and ... and I looked into that tunnel ... it was very dark ... I didn't see anything ... I only saw ... at the end of it ... what appeared to be an open window. And I realized that music was coming out of that window ... coming from that place. And at the time I thought ... "I really died ... I'm dead." And another thought that came to me ... Edson ... is that that song ...
that was sung in another language ... it was not sung in Portuguese ... it was not sung in any known language ... it was as if it was a spiritual language ... I thought ... "Wow ... it's a children's choir that is singing this song ..." and ... inside me ... in my heart ... in my spirit ... I can't say ... precisely where ... but I know that inside me I heard a voice that spoke like this ... "They are not children singing ... they are angels singing." And I ... stood there ... listening
to that song ... that melody ... looking at that hole ... and I ... at that moment I thought ... "Well ... I died ... . I'm dead ... and now, what do I do? " And it's as if ... inside me ... again ... a voice gave me a command ... told me that I had to go through that tunnel. that I would have to reach that open window ... or open door ... I don't know ... I think it was more a window. And ... and I got closer to the tunnel ... the
music was continuous ... I listened ... it was uninterrupted ... I looked into that tunnel, I couldn't see anything at all, it was the first time, in that situation, at the NDE, that I felt scared ... that I felt insecure. because I thought ... "If I jump ... if I enter this tunnel ... what if I don't get to the other side?" I thought ... "What if I fall into that darkness?" But again ... it's like the voice inside me spoke to me ... "You have to cross it." So what did I do? I moved
away a little ... in order to do this ... thinking of the impulse, taking a certain distance to make possible the impulse to jump. I figured like this ... that if I jumped ... I might get to the other side. When I was doing that ... I saw a hand ... very big ... giant ... it was slowly approaching ... my belly ... and this hand began to close ... it closed ... hugged me ... I could see that it had a white flap ... very large ... but I didn't have time to look back
to see who that hand belonged to. As it closed on my belly, it jerked ... it pulled me back. When it jerked, I felt my body bend. It was really a jolt, an impulse ... and as I bent forward ... I woke up, I opened my eyes and I was already in the hospital room. And ... I heard ... I was surrounded by doctors, nurses ... some health professionals on top of me ... I heard some screaming ... "He came back ... he came back ... he came back ... " and at that moment there
in the room ... I felt a lot of pain ... it is as if my heart had burst ... my chest was in a terrible pain ... very strong ... and I was agonizing for breathing ... they had put oxygen in my nose ... but I was having a hard time breathing ... and ... and at that moment ... one of the doctors said ... "Can you hear me? Can you understand?" I nodded ... with my head ... and I said ... with great difficulty I asked him ... "Did I have a heart attack?" Because
the pain at that moment was very strong in my chest. He said ... "Marcelo ... your lungs had a heart attack." "You had a severe pulmonary embolism ... very serious ..." "most part of your lungs are compromised ..." "because of the embolism you had a cardio-respiratory arrest ..." "we were able to revive you. .. " " but your condition is still very serious ... it is very critical ... we are now going to take you to the ICU ... " " but we need the contact of your family ... " " or friends. .. "
and then I asked .." Will I survive? " He spoke like this ... "Marcelo, we will do our best ... your condition is very serious." "Whatever we can do, we will do ... but your situation is very critical." And then my embolism recovery started ... I went to the ICU ... after that ... I stayed in the hospital for more than thirty days ... after that I spent almost eight months doing lung physiotherapy twice a day ... taking anticoagulant ... a series of medications ... taking a blood test frequently ... weekly ... twice, three times
a week to see how my clotting was doing ... so I went on a period ... a very difficult year. until I managed to recover and restore my health. Your NDE is very beautiful ... impressive ... you express yourself very well ... it was very clear ... I would like to ask you questions, Marcelo, within a scientific protocol that we have ... which is the protocol created by a psychiatrist ... American ... Grayson ... it establishes a score. Just listening to your description ... I think your NDE fills in perfectly ... but I will ...
repeat a few questions ... but the first question I wanted to ask you ... which is outside the protocol is the following ... in your opinion ... what convinces you that you did not have a dream ... that it was not a dream? Is there a difference between the experience you just described ... and a dream ... and the many dreams you have had in your life? A lot of difference, Edson, a lot of difference ... it was very real ... That experience was very real ... very different from a dream ... although some dreams
may have ... many details ... but ... not to the point that I can touch myself ... that I see the colors ... that I feel my body ... that I hear that song so clearly ... as I reported ... and an interesting fact that occurred many months later ... it was the first trip I took ... and I believe it came ... if there was a shadow of doubt ... this fact I believe came only to confirm ... what I had been through. I went ... well... I have ... a brother who lives ...
I have brothers ... actually ... who live in Jundiaí, near São Paulo ... and I went with a friend ... she went with me because it was the first time I was driving ... after the embolism ... and we went to Jundiaí. And there in Jundiaí ... we went to an event ... where there were many people ... the audience was very intense ... there were many people ... and I was there with my brother, my sister-in-law, my friend Flávia, my nephew ... and suddenly a man came from the middle of that event ... of
that crowd came towards us ... and he came to me and said ... "Look ... I have a word for you." I was surprised ... and I said ... "Okay ... you can say it". And he said ... "Look ... so says the Lord." "Your life was gone." "You were in the Shadow of Death Valley." "But I want you to know ... that I've been with you there all along." "I manifested myself to you there as The Great I Am." "I brought you back to life ..." "because I have so much to do in you
and through you." "So says The Great I Am." He said that ... at that moment I was moved ... I started to cry ... by the way, all of us there ... my brother, my brother-in-law, my nephew, my friend, we cried ... and then ... I was impressed ... and he said all that and left. he left us ... just as he came, he turned his back and left without saying anything else ... and I ... the first thing I asked my brother, my sister-in-law ... I said ... "Junior ... do you know this man?"
He said ... "No, Marcelo, I never saw him before... I don't know who he is ... I have no idea." So ... that, for me, was more of a confirmation that I really didn't have a dream ... that it really was a real experience. It is a person you had no knowledge of and who probably knew nothing of your experience ... right? Exactly ... no ... I had no knowledge. I had no way of knowing. Exact. Do you think anything has changed in you ... from this experience? Edson ... before the experience ... and after
the experience ... I had ... before and after ... some experiences with premonitions, with intuitions. In this respect, no, there was no change. What changed ... and that was drastic ... it was very strong ... it was the way I see life ... or rather ... actually ... correcting ... actually it was the way I see death. This NDE that I went through ... showed me ... brought death very close to me ... because ... you see ... I was in my mid-thirties ... financially stable ... with a good job ... with a range of
opportunities ... in front of me ... trips ... things that I always liked to do ... so ... I never thought ... I never thought about... the issue of death. And to be honest, too, neither pulmonary embolism ... if I had ever heard of pulmonary embolism, I don't remember. After all this, of course ... then I heard ... I heard from several people ... different situations ... but for me at the time that was new. And after that ... you know, Edson ... it's not that ... sometimes I comment with my psychologist ... it's not
that life has lost its charm or that life has lost its beauty. .. no ... I love to live ... I try to take care of myself as much as possible ... I like the good things the world has to offer ... which are wonderful things ... but I don't have anymore that illusion ... for me the real world is the one where I've been. That over there is the real world. Here ... for me ... it is a transition ... it is a passage ... here it is an illusory world. where death ... for
me ... it became very close ... it became very real ... so ... for example ... if I take a trip ... or I schedule a trip ... just as an example ... I don't have that illusion that ... "Look, I'm planning a trip ... for example ... for three months from now ..." I'm not anymore absolutely sure that in three months I’ll be traveling. If it were at that time ... I would never think there were a chance that I would die in this period. Not today, today I am aware that death is very
close ... or that passage ... it is very close to us. So ... it changed a lot inside of me ... it's as if ... inside of me, there remained a conviction after this NDE that ... I am a spirit ... in essence ... I have a soul ... and I occupy a body ... a matter ... because I need that matter for me to get around ... for me to live in this world. But my essence is spiritual. Where I have been, yes, it is reality ... here, no ... here is not real. So
... I don't know if I managed to express it ... but that's more or less what it is. I understood, in short, the following, you definitely lost, with this experience, the fear of death, which is an instinctive thing for all of us. Correct ... perfect ... exactly. Did you have any religion ... were you ... spiritualist ... at least before ... catholic ... or any other religion? Yes, I was an evangelical for many years. For many years I attended an evangelical church. Ok ... by that time, you didn't attend anymore? No, no ... I was
already away from church. Ok ... great, Marcelo ... there is a question about something that you emphasized a lot at the beginning of your speech ... it is about time ... this is a question that we have always asked. .. how was this question of time ... you didn't make it very clear ... how was it ... did time pass too fast ... or was it too long ... can't you measure it. .. or you had no idea of time ... what is the time at that moment? Edson ... as soon as I had the
embolism ... I had one ... as the doctors told me later ... I had a cardiac arrest ... I had a cardio-respiratory arrest. It took them nine and a half minutes to bring me back. and ... when I was in the ICU, still ... breathing with the help of devices ... still struggling to recover ... they told my family that ... it was too early to measure, but that possibly. .. I would have some sequel ... i would have some sequel ... given the time I stayed without oxygenation in the brain. Well ... chronologically ...
it was almost ten minutes ... let's say ten minutes. But there... in that experience... it was not our time. It was a very extensive time for me ... I have this impression, Edson ... it lasted a long time ... I don't know how to measure it exactly ... but for me ... for example... just that experience of... reliving my life ... from my birth until that moment of the embolism ... I believe that if it were in natural times it would have passed ... hours or days ... so it is certainly not like our time
... it's not. Perfect. Another thing that you made quite clear ... is the presence ... there was a presence ... you identified it as a hand ... a hand that enveloped you. Were you unable to identify there ... at that moment ... any person? Didn't it occur to you that this hand could be a relative ... a friend ... who had already passed away ... didn't you identify anything like that? No, Edson ... because ... I didn't have time to look back ... actually, as that hand got closer ... it caught very much my attention
... and it came slowly, you know ... the hand approached slowly ... it wrapped my stomach ... Was it an image? Was it an image ... did you see it? I saw ... I saw clearly ... I saw the fingers ... it was a very light hand ... I saw the flap of that tunic ... white tunic ... very white ... . and ... and that may have distracted me to the point I have not had the curiosity ... to look back and see ... who owned the hand. So I don't know how to tell
you ... because as it wrapped me ... it pulled me ... so I can't tell you. And a detail that caught my attention ... because you talked about the clothes ... you were not at that moment at the NDE with the same clothes that you were lying on the bed. No. It was a tunic ... of another color. Exact. In an NDE of a patient of mine ... while everyone was dressed in the operating room in green or blue ... [in the NDE] he found himself dressed in white ... being transported ... Your outfit was
something else, right ... it wasn't the same outfit. No ... it was white. In the hospital room, the clothes I wore were blue. That was clear because when I came back, I remember ... the outfit was blue. In that experience it was white ... it was all white. Marcelo ... you said you touched yourself ... in the NDE situation ... you touched yourself ... in the kidney ... in the belly ... Yes. How did you feel it ... you touched and felt that you were touching a body ... or not? Yes, Edson ... I felt
that I was touching my body. The same way I am now touching my belly ... it was the same sensation ... I touched ... I put my hand on the kidney region ... on the right side where the surgery had been done ... I ran my hand to see if there was a cut or bandage ... because the doctor had removed the drain ... I did touch it ... I felt my body there. You felt like you are feeling it right now. Exactly ... like I'm feeling it now ... exactly. Marcelo ... the thoughts that
occurred in you at that moment ... could you ... specify... more or less ... Did you have some thought of ... well... you spoke of your life, right ... the film of your life ... which is a quite common information in NDE, right ... everyone says that ... the film of their own life, right ... didn't you have ... the feeling ... of ... any future events... that could happen ... that you felt in a kind of prediction ... Didn't this happen? Not at that moment? Exactly ... at that moment, no ... at that moment,
no. Were all the scenes very vivid? They were very vivid, very vivid. As I said ... it was like I was really reliving every moment ... For example ... obviously, I don't remember my birth ... but I saw myself being born from my mother in a room. It all started there ... it was very interesting, you know ... and I knew that baby was me. A lot of things that I didn't remember ... from my childhood ... they passed [in front of me] ... Now ... in general ... you mentioned it ... that you felt
good ... all the time ... but there was a moment of fear, right ... there was a moment there that you were very insecure, right? Yes. All the time, Edson, from the time I saw myself standing there in that room ... that I saw the empty bed ... the whole situation ... I was very calm ... I was at peace ... . as I said ... sometimes came to my mind the thought that I had died, that I was dead ... but I was in complete peace ... I was in a full peace ... I
was very quiet ... it was a very reassuring feeling. The only moment that changed this feeling was when that voice inside me ... that command ... I don't know where it came from ... told me that I would have to cross. At that moment, yes, I was afraid ... I was a little insecure ... maybe ... afraid of the unknown ... of not being able to see what was there ... so ... at that moment, yes, I was afraid ... I was afraid. But even so you prepared the impulse to cross. Even so... exactly. I
was going to follow that command ... which was ... "You have to cross and get to the other side." You didn't identify this command, did you ...? No, Edson ... no, I haven't identified it. And it was not an audible voice ... it was something that was kind of telepathic ... in your thinking ... Yes ... it was in my thinking ... it was not audible. The only time ... I imagined having heard an audible voice, but ... even in this case it may have been in my mind ... was when I heard that song.
Which you couldn't define ... which was wonderful. Exactly ... but ... if it was audible ... naturally as we hear it here ... or not ... I can't say. I believe it was really ... in my thinking ... as if it were telepathic, right ... Exactly This thing ... this well-being ... people sometimes refer to a communion ... a harmony with the cosmos ... a feeling of integration ... do you think you can say that ... in the sense of well-being when you were there? Oh ... yes ... for sure ... there is a peace
... a feeling that you are not alone ... I felt that ... even those voices ... it's like it was ... a welcome song ... something like that. So there was something collective there, yes ... for sure. I had a sense of peace that was not just individual peace ... it really wasn't. Marcelo ... you didn't see any known person ... who had passed away before ... No, I didn't ... You didn't think that voice you heard could be the voice of someone close to you already passed away ... No ... I didn't. And how
was our return ... do you have any memory of that moment? Did you ever see your own physical body ... being rehabilitated? Didn't you see this image? No ... the only record I have ... which was very clear ... was ... when that hand ... I really felt a jolt ... it grabbed me ... it was very delicate ... it was very delicate the way it held my belly ... but not in the jolt, no ... it was all at once ... I felt that push back. and what I remember ... it was very clear
... it was my body bending forward ... my body went forward ... your physical body? For me it was physical ... I was still in that room there ... in that experience ... in that place. but to me it was like being physical. And when I felt this jolt forward ... I opened my eyes ... it was immediate ... it was an immediate transfer. And the pains came back, right ... Oh ... much worse ... because then ... as I said ... actually ... at that moment there ... specifically ... In the room I was
... I even forgot about my kidney ... because the pain I felt was in my chest ... it's like I said ... it's as if my chest had burst ... so much so that the first question I posed ... when I managed to stammer a question was whether I had a heart attack ... The doctor said ... "No, your lungs were the problem ... consequently your heart couldn't take it ... and it got a heart attack." Okay, Marcelo ... I think basically ... I'm going to ask you, later, a lot of questions ... by email
... if you agree ... Of course, we can ... for us to do the classification of your NDE... but ... your experience is perfectly clear to me ... I will open for Carlos to ask some questions ... One thing caught my attention ... which is the voice of angels. In that music you said you heard what would be a spiritual language that you said you didn't understand. This is the first time I have heard or read about an NDE in which the person wouldn't understand what was said... because all communication seemed to be telepathic. Yes
... exactly ... And how's that for you ... didn't you understand anything at all? No meaning? Did nothing come from there? Because it remains a mystery to me ... because all experiences speak of messages which were understood ... telepathically as if there were no language there ... and here we suddenly have another information ... isn't it Edson? Exactly ... I think you understood the melody but what was said, you couldn't understand ... is that so? Exactly ... I didn't understand the lyrics ... what was sung ... but ... the music itself ... the melody itself
had a message of tranquility ... of peace ... it was like a welcome melody ... I clearly felt this ... I couldn't understand the language ... what was being spoken. However ... the message of that song, yes ... it had a meaning for me ... mainly a meaning of peace ... of tranquility. At that moment I was not afraid ... this message of peace I managed to get it clearly. Marcelo ... I forgot to ask you a question ... excuse me Carlos ... but.. you ... at some point ... your sensitivity at that NDE moment
... do you think your senses were more acute? Hearing ... vision ... understanding ... general sensitivity ... can you say anything about it? They were ... this is for sure ... they were... do you know why? The colors I started to see ... in that ball ... that globe ... they were very vivid ... there were hundreds of colors ... you know ... they were not just the cold or warm colors that we have here ... there were many colors ... that melody ... you know... the impression I had is that that tunnel was very
long ... and... if ... if it were here ... . surely that melody ... that sound would be lost in space. Not there ... although it was coming from so far ... it was as if that sound were there ... in that room ... in that environment with me. It was clear, understand? So, yes, the question about my senses ... hearing ... vision ... yes ... they got more accurate there. Marcelo, what was that environment you were in ... what was there? - Nothing. - Was it just light? The walls were light ... they were
all light ... until I finished seeing my life passing in front of me ... that black hole didn't appear... it appeared later ... and the only thing that was in that environment... it was the bed. But it was not the hospital bed. Because the hospital bed is that stretcher, you know, it is taller, made of metal ... the structure, right ... that one was a normal bed, as if it were a bed in a residence ... but it wasn't either the bed of my house, understand? The bed in my house, in my apartment, is different.
But it was a different bed ... and it was empty. Was there someone with you ... at the moment you had the NDE? family ... companion ... or not? There was only the nurse ... the nurse who accompanied me ... the nursing technician who accompanied me to the bathroom ... because I had the NDE still in the bathroom ... I never got back to bed. ... and ... at that moment ... they told me later ... of course ... the nurse who was on duty ... which was the main nurse ... the name of this
nursing technician is Abigail. .. well... this main nurse ... whose name is Carolina ... she was passing by in front of my room ... and this nursing technician that was with me there ... she started screaming ... asking for help ... saying that a patient had passed out ... and later Carolina told me that when she saw me there ... it was as if she knew it was not a heart attack ... a cardiac arrest ... she told me later ... she said ... "It was very interesting ... it's as if I had a conviction
... that you had an embolism ..." so much so that I picked up the phone right away ... even before entering the room ... I started screaming for put a respirator on you ... and I called the ICU and told the doctor ... Dr César, from the ICU ... I said ... "Look ... the patient in the room had a pulmonary embolism. " Your NDE took you out of this physical environment, isnt'it ... because you didn't see the rehabilitation ... you didn't see ... the oxygen coming ... you didn't see yourself being carried to bed
... I imagine you were carried, right ... because you fell in the bathroom. I think so. You did not see anything? No, I didn't see anything ... at that moment I was having the experience. You were in another place ... in another space, right ... I was in another space going through the NDE. Marcelo ... I still want to ask you something ... it is almost a provocation ... you will excuse me, please ... Feel free. Everything you are saying is coherent and is compatible with all NDEs that we have heard ... there are over
a hundred cases ... it is really coincidental ... but ... for me it gets very complicated when you say ... "I think that is the real life." You see ... you heard a song that you didn't understand ... you saw a hand that you didn't see the face ... you received a message you don't know from whom ... how did that convince you that that it's the real life and not this one ... where you have stomach ache ... you have a kidney scar ... I think it's because of the feeling of peace ... That
you had. the feeling of fullness ... you know ... it doesn't compare to any feeling here. I knew ... I was there ... but I knew that I had just undergone surgery ... I didn't know about the embolism ... but I knew ... I knew that a short time before I had a lot of pain in the belly ... pain in the kidney ... and there ... suddenly ... I didn't feel anything anymore ... so ... although I didn't understand that melody ... although ... I didn't know that place ... it's as if that place...
was the one where I really belonged to. as if that place was inherent to me ... you know ... it is an inner identification I feel... it is not a physical identification ... or simply rational. I think this is it ... I think it is the feeling of fullness, of peace. you know ... it's that feeling that you're complete. Everything else loses its luster, loses its charm ... it was wonderful for me. It was an indescribable beauty, it was an indescribable sensation. And why was it so indescribable ... so nice, so harmonious ... and what
made you think ... "I'm dead." Was that your idea of death? No ... I thought "I'm dead" because I saw that I wasn't feeling anything else ... I was feeling my body ... And you had no more pain, right? I was no longer in pain and clearly I was in another dimension, in another world ... and I didn't have any fear ... I felt fullness ... The only feeling of fear happened at that moment of the "You have to pass through." The border, right? The border, exactly, the border. But then ... I think that's it,
Edson, it's that feeling of fullness ... because you really have a feeling of fullness. It is a sensation of something that fully satisfies you, you know ... It is very interesting ... it is a sensation ... that is why I say "indescribable", because ... not even in the best moments of my life here. .. or on the best trips I have ever taken ... I felt that feeling of peace ... or that joy or that fullness ... it is not the same thing. Edson asked you if you felt connected to everything and you said that
you felt the collective ... but I didn't feel you having answered his question in the following sense ... did you feel you were part of that, as if you had a real connection to all that? " I felt it... that for sure. I ... yes ... I was part of that ... I was connected. Those voices ... everything I heard ... what I saw ... it's like I said ... it's as if time and space... there... didn't exist ... so I was completely connected with everything there . And with that connection was there also an
increase in knowledge ... as if ... the knowledge that was in that place became yours too? Or didn't it happen? No ... it didn't happen ... no. You said that you had an expectation that when you died ... you fell asleep ... and ... we know that that was not what happened ... but even so I ask ... were you surprised ... with what was happening... or strangely it seemed natural to you? It seemed natural ... it's very interesting ... I never thought about it ... but it seemed natural. It didn't seemed strange to me
... it was natural. In several interviews that we do ... when people talk about the film of life it seems that ... there is a reason for that person to see that film ... as if this person should see and get conscious... "Look ... here you did this ... here you did that ..." some people say that it is not a judgment being made by somebody else. The person herself will make her own judgment ... but you didn't say anything about this ... is it because you don't know why you saw that film ... or
do you know? What I felt there ... when I relived each situation ... I had the same feelings ... so I had feeling of joy ... I had feeling of sadness ... of frustration ... of guilt ... . those feelings ... as this film of my life was passing, Carlos .... I had all those feelings according to the situation. And as soon as the film ended ... and then, right after, I saw that hole ... none of those feelings were inside me anymore ... because ... obviously in our life we experience all kinds of feelings
... we go through "n" situations and consequently feelings according to each one of the situations ... and I experienced that. I experienced the cry ... I experienced the pain ... the loss ... I saw ... a friend who had died many years before ... he was one of my great friends ... he was my neighbor ... I saw the moment I passed by him that Saturday morning ... I greeted him ... and that fateful night he died in a car accident ... at the age of eighteen ... the sadness I felt ... seeing André there
in front of me ... and suddenly in the sequence I received the news ... all that was very real ... so ... the joy of meeting him that Saturday morning ... and the immense pain at night, that sadness ... "That is not possible ... André did not die." So, I had all these feelings ... however ... when it was over ... and I am citing just one example for you to understand ... when it was over ... these feelings ... which were actually very intense ... and they were many ... they disappeared completely. That feeling
of tranquility and peace came back ... and it was the same feeling I felt when I first arrived in that room there. You said, Marcelo, that you put your hand on your back, on the spot where the surgery was done ... in this other place ... where you had ... let's say ... another body ... because it was not the physical body. And did you feel something? Did you touch a scar ... or was it smooth? No ... it was smooth ... there was no scar. It was very interesting ... there was no scar. Because
it was the first thing I thought ... then I touched my back ... because as I was without pain ... this caught my attention ... then I looked at my clothes ... they were white clothes ... I thought ... "But I had blue clothes" ... The room was different ... as I said ... and then I touched my back... I even rubbed my hands like that on my back ... I looked for where the cut was ... the bandage ... it was another body ... it was another body ... there was no scar, there was
no cut, there was nothing. But I could feel [this other body] . So were you surprised? I was surprised. Then you thought ... "I'm dead" ... right? Exactly ... then I thought ... "I'm dead". You told us... during the interview something that was surprising ... about someone coming to you ... someone that didn't know you ... and told you about what had happened to you ... and said phrases that ... apparently are biblical ... something like that ... What is the impact of this ... how did you deal with it? Yes ... for example, the
valley of the shadow of death ... is a biblical term that reports death, really ... the Great I Am ... it was when ... God would have appeared to Moses ... through a sarsa ... that burned but the fire didn’t consume that sarsa ... and Moses in that fright, that surprise ... and God ... a voice, in fact ... came out of that sarsa and spoke ... " I Am The Great I Am ". And ... so ... for me ... that ... what that man said to me ... it was just a confirmation ...
it's not that at some point I had doubts about what I had gone through ... or that it had been really a near-death experience ... but it was just a confirmation ... maybe not so much for me ... but for other people who will hear my experience .. . for my brother, my sister, for my nephew, for my family, right ... in general ... and ... and "the Great I am" is a term very embracing ... if we think ... it speaks of fullness ... it speaks of a whole, right ... I mean ... it
does not speak of a single being ... it is The Great I Am. It's a very broad sense, I believe ... Carlos. You were not alone in the presence of that person, right ... you have testimonies of that ... I do. Your brother, your brother-in-law ... everyone was there ... Everyone was together ... everyone heard it. My brother ... when we got back tohis house ... he said ... "Marcelo ... let's write down what he said so that we don't forget it" ... "it was very clear what he said .. . how did he know
you died ...?" The other phrase he said ... "Your life has gone ..." "and I brought you from death ..." So ... it was very intense ... because it was very specific ... It was not a generic thing ... saying ... "Look ... I feel like you went through a difficult time" ... something like that ... I'm not here to paraphrase ... it wasn't that ... he was very ... assertive ... he was very assertive ... he was clear in his message. Were you at a family gathering ... a barbecue? It was an event at
a school ... There were a lot of people at this school. So ... it was very clear ... the message was very assertive ... understand? It was exactly about death ... death and the fact that I came back. And ... another thing ... he said ... "However ... I was with you all the time." So ... it refers to that certainty that I wasn't really alone there. I don't know who was there with me but ... there was someone with me there ... I wasn't alone ... for sure. Thank you, Flávia, for being here ...
to collaborate with us on this channel ... regarding Marcelo's NDE. The idea of inviting you ... is that Marcelo made a very curious reference in his NDE ... that during a meeting ... in which you were present ... an unknown person appeared saying things to him ... as if he knew everything that had happened to Marcelo ... and we got a little surprised ... indeed... and he said you witnessed this fact ... Yes. Could you describe for us what happened? Yes ... we were at a meeting ... me ... Marcelo ... his brother ... his
sister-in-law ... and Humberto ... nephew ... of Marcelo's brother, right ... e. .. out of nowhere ... a man showed up ... coming from the crowd ... he came towards Marcelo ... looking directly at Marcelo ... he didn't even look around ... he came directly looking at Marcelo ... and when he got close to Marcelo ... he looked at him and said ... "You ... have risen from death". "And God has a very big purpose for you." That was impressive because ... he didn't know ... what had happened to Marcelo ... just us ... from
the family knew it. So ... we were kind of ... everybody was ... looking at each other's face ... you know ... perplexed. Then he turned ... he left ... without talking to anyone else ... and then Marcelo said to his brother ... "Do you know this guy?" ... and Júnior [his brother] said ... "No ... I don't know him." Nobody knew the guy. So it was an impacting experience ... surprising ... and you have no explanation for it ... this person is unknown ... you never saw him again ... Never. Nobody in your relationship
knew him ... you have no idea where this guy came from ... I had never seen him ... he came out of nowhere ... just like that ... from the crowd directly to Marcelo ... he just looked at Marcelo and said ... "You ... emerged from the dead ... and God has a purpose for you". Something like that ... I'm saying here ... what I remember more or less, right ... exactly ... the words ... I don't remember. but ... we were all looking at each other's faces ... without understanding. Do you think there is
a chance that someone in your relationship may have divulged this somehow? No. Isn't there a possibility? No way. Not at all ... because ... what had happened ... it was a short time ago that Marcelo's experience had happened ... and ... only we knew what had happened ... that he had had the embolism ... got it? So for us ... it was a God thing ... because ... it was very ... it is inexplicable. how can a person ... come from that crowd... towards Marcelo and says that to him. How did the guy know Marcelo
was in the situation he was in ... that he died and ... he died and came back ... since nobody knew the guy. Where were you at that moment ... what city? In Jundiaí. Marcelo's NDE happened where? At the hospital. From Jundiaí? No ... in the city of Ribeirão Preto. Ribeirão Preto ... this means ... so far away to have a connection like ... "I heard it happened at the hospital" ... there isn't this possibility ... No, no ... no chance ... because ... I didn't even think it could have been someone from the hospital
... no ... not at all. What was all that for you ... what did it add to your life ... what changed ... what view do you have today of this type of experience that you had? Look ... what marked me ... what remained for me, Edson ... Carlos ... first ... death ... it is certain ... it can affect us at any time ... we have no control over our lives. We can make plans but ... from one moment to the next everything can change. Second ... the feeling that became clear to me ...
is that there... is the real world. For example ... by my vision ... by my training, my background ... I had learned that after dying we would sleep. We would sleep and wait for the trial one day. So ... I don't want to go into the merit of the religious view ... but that is not what happened to me. I did not sleep. And what I experienced was real. I experienced ... I saw the other side ... a different world ... another dimension ... and that, yes, it was real ... so ... the feeling I
had is that ... that world where I've been ... is the real one. There ... really ... is where ... life continues ... it goes on ... not here ... here life has a ... limited time ... and another thing ... is precisely ... the question of values ... because after that ... I started to give less value to material things. you know ... less attention ... I care less about it ... As I said at the beginning... of course we all need money ... we need ... we like good things ... to live well
... in comfort ... but it is not my priority anymore. So ... those values have changed ... completely .. you know ... my values today are different. Today I intend to live ... to serve ... to give my best ... for those around me ... for humanity ... understand? ... do my best ... always ... act with justice ... without the illusion that what we live here is forever. Is there anything you would like to say to all of us ... as a message ... like ... "Look ... you who never went through a situation
like this ..." "considering this world as it is .. it would be nice for you to know this ... or that "... is there anything you want to say? What remains as a reflection ... which for me was like a lesson ... is precisely the finitude of our time here ... and that really everything here is ephemeral ... you know ... people ... today more than ever ... they care a lot about "having" ... I think the main thing in our life is "being". is to be the difference in people's lives ... no matter the
status ... the financial position ... what matters ... mainly ... is to be the difference in people's lives ... that's the biggest message that I think this experience brought to me ... you know ... and amidst this finitude here ... it's not worth it ... to wear yourself out ... for things that .. . we will not take with us ... that are ephemeral ... that are fleeting ... like this life we experience here If you enjoyed the video , please subscribe to our channel ... click "like", make comments, share with your friends ... click
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