Shot Caller For Nazi Low-Rider Prison Gang Confesses To His Life Of Crime, SAVAGE Prison Violence

All cartels are scary but they're scary because you just didn't know what the next minute was going to bring you know you are sitting across from a guy that will wipe you out your whole family your dog your goldfish everything and tomorrow it's business as usual Killers never feel bad about what they do I pull in the driveway and moving vans boom right behind me I knew right then I it's over this man is Ronnie harell Ronnie Has spent almost his entire life in prison starting at California Youth Authority gradu ating to maximum security state

prisons and eventually the most brutal federal penitentiaries in the country Ronnie is a lifer he's seen it all from running with the Aryan Brotherhood to shock calling for the Nazi low riders Ronnie was a general in a war that lasted for 30 years inside of the most Savage prisons in America but he changed he sobered up started reading And by the time he paroled he had developed an educational booklet sanctioned by the California Department of Corrections for other inmates to use as part of their Parole Board hearing Ronnie's educational system has helped hundreds of inmates

get out early and now you can help too by donating to his charity star speaking truth about recidivism by visiting star22 3.org this is the first time Ronnie is telling his story on camera and for a bonus episode With him head over to patreon.com theconnect show a true OG a veterano I present to you Ronnie harell right here on the connect with Johnny Mitchell this Lonely at the Top there's only one number one and there's only one way somebody gets your number one chair you're going to keep a knife in the feds or you're not

going to you're not going to last long you're numb to the violence if I send one guy and he can't do it I'll send three if I send three and they Can't do it I'll send five you can't win that's when I see lights behind me start to flash and I didn't even think I just hit it I was driving like my life depended on and then I parked the car popped out closed the door and I started running and he pulled out a burner shank it's like 6 in and he passes it to me

and he goes here that's yours don't ever leave the cell block without this he was the reason I made it out of that place alive do you like being an Idaho it's uh Well we're W my mother-in-law dies she leaves this million-dollar house to us we're going to sell it we're going to move and uh I to me I I'd like to be in a spot to where if you can see your neighbor you're too close oh you want to be even more remote well I'm not all the way kin foil hat but I could

wear one at a time or two I guess yeah and that's where but what a better place than Idaho for that yeah Idaho you I think we're we're looking at okay right now we're Looking at this woodmill in Oregon and I think the guy's just too old to work it it's not too expensive and it's got this ton of wood with it that's really really I mean he cuts them into tables right uh and they're just bright Reds and it's perfect and so I'm looking at trying to get it and what I'm going to do

is I got Oakland Joe he's sitting in Vegas right now in uh well not in Vegas but in Nevada I got Johnny vongh ex brand out here in Victorville I just dropped him Off I got these cats that I'm going to put down there and tell them hey man go to work but here's the thing you're a long ways from dope so I want you to clean up what part of Oregon is it it's in uh man what's it's it's just an hour and a half from my house in Idaho so it's right there in

southern Oregon oh so you're like Southeast Oregon oh so you're remote yes I've never I'm from Oregon I've never even been to that part of the state Right right you know because it's way it's almost like yeah it's kind of not Oregon in a way it's it's no man's land a lot of European Kindred there that's their yeah that's their spot I ran into a lot of those cats while I was locked up I was like what's EK I was so cute wasn't I I was like excuse me sir what is that EK tatted on

your ankle and they like Jesus this tourist because I was a tourist in the system and being around guys like you Was fascinating it was because you could have been my uncle like I really loved and felt like this kinship with these ogs these lifers um and so that's kind of why it's a treat to have you here because it it actually brings me back to some of the fond times that I was in prison because guys like you were so inspiring to me because they told me hey go follow your dreams like you got

potential they really like believed in what I wanted to do when I got out which Was to move to Hollywood and get into Show Business and okay so there was a cat a friend of mine he lived right out here somewh he lived in La his name's Paul Kelly he hung with Eddie Nash and all them and uh Paul Kelly was uh uh he's probably dead now but the Laurel Canyon Massacre oh they took him they they when they found Eddie Nash not guilty the first time they said the books aren't closed on Paul Kelly

because everybody was Saying Paul Kelly Paul Kelly Paul Kelly but anyway so uh he was a good friend of mine out here and I'd done some things with him running guns and doing all of that and he was the one I looked up to you know and Paul Kelly was like this there was no scam too small if he could Net 10 cents a week for 30 years yeah we doing that scam yeah that was him and he'd have so many of these little nickel and dime scams going on that he was killing it yeah

and all under the radar Nobody cared right they learned about this scam but what are they taking come on you know yeah and I was a kid and he said kid you want to come with me we have this thing on some tiffany lamps I didn't know what T tiffany lamps were I told him Paul come on that's what you're going to feed me lamps you know I'm doing everything for you now you're going to offered he goes look at score of the lifetime I said yeah all you old cats doing this Tiffany I said

I'm good And then later on in life I learned what tiffany lamps were are they what are they I don't even know they're very very expensive lamps you know very High elegant high and it was an inside job and they were all going to make millions and I could have I could have been set real good on the deal but I just was dumb stupid so you're from Lakewood which is basically Orange County right on the border of Orange County La yeah but there yeah there does Seem to be a lot of gang banging down

in Orange County yeah did you grow up in that culture or who brought you what was childhood like I grew up in that I uh I was in foster homes doing all that I I eventually made it back to my dad but by then he felt so guilty about what happened that I had I was controlling things through the manipulation right his guil what happened to you well me going to foster homes while he was in the Army my mom acting a fool and and it Just screwed up once you start thinking wrong the way

you think is all based on that wrong thinking it's corrupt thinking and you start once you start learning that you can manipulate somebody because they did something to you and feel bad about it you control that person so they didn't have any parent ing they were just felt guilt no and bending to your will and they were and that's what I would do with anybody and everybody I I rebelled in the in the Foster home so my cousins used to jump on me I went to live with my dad started running the streets went back

and and whooped my cousins um a whole lot of whole lot of different stuff I didn't forget what people did to me you know as was growing up and whatnot but eventually It All Leads to ya Nazi low riders the whole gang trip and it's a process that you never see coming it comes at you like this like this and you don't know that life itself Is brainwashing you by the time you hit prison if you've been through ya and that whole living thing by the time you hit the penitentiaries and the real brainwashers and

manipulators get a hold of you you're Prime you're Prime for their get down and they look and spot cats like that it's like the military in a way it's like the military they're going to train but they're training you to get down in different way so you went to Youth Authority that's what ya is in California y you were how old oh man what was I probably 14 what' you go down for that time I went down for uh as ironic as it is disobeying a court order they ordered me into a program and I

accepted to get out from whatever it was so they dismissed the case that I had I went in the front door of the program out the backb door not to be seen again till they apprehended me and then the judge well I can't bre initia the case I Made the mistake of dismissing it but what I'm going to do is you disobeyed my order so I'm going to give you this two years for that so I went in for that and then uh somewhere in the middle of all that I went in the military and

uh come back and and it was already in the mix of the Nazi low riders who went in the military oh wow so I end up getting honorably discharged from the military early when that happens I'm out and the military got strung out real bad what Are we talking on drugs dope heroin meth anything that would come through taking pills uh Lily f40s the whole nine yards right the old Reds sick and all so I got strung out so when I came out of the military discharged I needed to feed that habit and I knew

just how to do it with a gun and directions to whatever connection was in the area and that was my my lick right then I just start hitting connections hitting connections and then I discovered that connections will tell on you just as quick as anybody else but I Justified it this is our game this is our laws this is what we're doing you know what I mean so it's not society's rules we're playing by I don't have to play by their rules because I'm not playing in their area I'm playing with everybody that grew up

like I did drug dealers all that we have our own set of rules so as long as I'm not stealing the Purse down the street robbing the house of the guy that works for a living and I'm in the game and I'm just taken from the game mhm then I Justified it today's episode is sponsored by prize picks prize pick is America's number one daily fantasy sports app with over 5 million active members it's the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports unlike other apps on prize picks it's just you against the

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the prize pick app prize picks run your game so you're hitting dope scores you're robbing drug dealers yeah constantly then they tell on me yeah yeah that's nothing new I met a lot of guys locked up for robbery and I'm like wait you can drug dealers can call the cops and they will yeah they got on speed dial yeah quicker than anybody else you know what I mean so uh um yeah that all goes down I end up in the joint forber yeah okay but I don't just go to any joint they send me to

solid dad I touched down there and uh a black cops giving me giv me grief right I'm sorry how much time did was your first stretch okay so they give me four years all right but like I said it doesn't turn out that way you end up doing a lot more I lost a few years cuz the cop was giving me grief and solid dad there in Central and uh I'm a I'm a young kid fresh out of ya And so I bounc it off my C so we stabbed this guy isn't this what we

do and he's like nobody likes his cop he's like that's exactly what we do so they got me the knife and I went at him in the hallway wow even the white cops there didn't like him his name was Garnett officer Garnett black cop anti-y everybody was racist back then it's just what you were it's how you did time you didn't fall into that you didn't walk no Mainline so two white cops jumped in When I was getting beat down by the cops and pulled me out he said we got him cuffed me up took

me to owing put me in there so that's it if they come for you in here we're not here we don't work in here that dude right wow I'm like all right now I'm in owing as a kid I still don't know how all this prison stuff goes but I'm going to figure it out you can believe that I'm sitting in owing and the black dudes in the cell next to me stay up late at Night but they don't just stay up they bang on the bed and they do rap just like on the streets

yeah I'm getting mad I mean I I a pissed so I send the kite down I don't know how to make a bomb I ask how you make a bomb I get the kite back boom okay so it gives me the instructions how to make this bomb back then you could get matches they give you matches you scraping the soul off chest pieces stuff it full of everything first you make the wick out Of a uh zigzag wet it put the sulfur on it roll it up now I got a little wig sticking in the

end of the chest piece M the hole pack it full of all this sulfur and then your Levis your pants had zippers on them back then you burn them get all the metal break up razor blades pack it in there at the end so I got this thing it looks good man I'm loving it I'm like oh yeah look at this bomb soon as they done banging and they lay Down I'm going to bomb them I put it over on the bars I reach around I light it and the bomb goes off bom all the

window Shake inside the unit and all of that and what the bomb did the sulfur did was it turned the metal red hot and all that red hot metal like a projectile landed on the floor the noise woke the dudes up they jumped up and all I did was give them a hot foot what's a hot what's a hot there a red hot things they were dancing in the cell the cops came And got them and moved them cuz they knew knew that it was just going to be Progressive but that was my first experience

with a bomb wow they got bigger better and more deadly after that but making bombs was that common in California state prisons back then oh yeah yeah um with the thing remember you know from I just know this from literally uh not blood and blood out American me they they walk by somebody's cell and they light them on fire yeah That that's a thing too I mean you can get cuz you know you mow yards you do this and that you may get a little bit of gas each time you can get that um a

thing people were doing in San Quinton on the shoe yard was they would come out and they would have like baby oil they would have hair gel they would have all this stuff mixed up and they put a stinger in it and get it bubbling so it was almost like a Napalm and then they would throw it in the dude's face and Stab him okay so you're uh on o block for stabbing a cop right there were no cameras back then no so you didn't even get arrested for this no I did I got charged

with it I got charged with it but I beat the case they screwed up on the paperwork the cop lied I beat the case I end up I didn't really beat it I took two years okay okay but it got reduced and I took two years for salt salt on a a peace officer so I had six Now okay then they send me to fome and when I get off the bus in folsome right and fulam was a weird thing back then old fulam like they had Jericho's mile which was the yard and it's a

big deal they had this track around the yard for Filman jerles miles so when the yard opened every morning everybody' step on the yard and step off you know just the dang and they bring you in there and they will bring you into the Lieutenant's office back then and the First thing Lieutenant would say two questions you got any enemies who's your next to Ken they didn't lead me to the Lieutenant's office they led me to the barber shop his the cop Garnett's brother worked there oh and that was this was getting ready to go

down they put me in the chair they surrounded me they're telling me what are you here for I tell them oh a shoe program they go for what I said I don't Know if few years probably they said okay look this is how it works here this is fome with the bull you get the horns you get the horns you go to the hospital that's where you're going and they pulled the pen and the chair went whoop straightened right out and they beat the bark off of me wow so I went to the hospital cop

had picked me up from the hospital a few weeks months later tried to bring me to shoe before I'd even get there they say put him in the shower and They'd knock me up again right eventually I got lucky and this redneck white cop came and got me and I had a piece I was just going to hit the cops that time somebody already told him I had the knife cuz they knew he was a cool cop he said look I'm taking you back that it's not going to happen but I'm GNA leave you get

rid of what you got and I'll come back and get you because but you're not going to stab nobody while I'm walking You wow so he takes me back there they tell him put him in the shower he goes I'm not putting him in the shower and if any of you don't like it we'll be in the parking lot so he brings me to the the cell he goes I'm off for the next two days you got to make it through that my cell is next to Danny earing Brotherhood mhm on one side and I

got Joe Morgan on the other this is where I experienced one of my first crosses how I get put in a Cross who is Joe Morgan Joe Morgan's Peg Leg he ran he was one of the original cats in the uh Mexican Mafia okay okay so he was he was he was a shot caller big guy I mean when they talked to him Mr Morgan you know he he was he could he can get you killed he never has to move or nothing just look at you in a way wow and he goes with bodyguards

so I get crossed up there was a guy that was with me in Tracy right I'm sorry what does crossed up mean um it means that Somebody kind of put you in a position to where you could get hurt they trick you kind of you know what happened was the dudes on the first row they're all PC so the first thing I got told when I got there was those dudes next down there they're all checked in use them you know that's cool but that's it so you know I'm like okay so a guy Nam

guy below me named psycho he just messed up got hit and almost killed him he knew me and Tracy and we went out on a yard full Of blacks and we knew we had to fight me and him got off and we fought together like that we had each other's back but he's down there so he hollers up to me right on the teer says hey uh I got these 13 bags of oranges and they're hitting us tomorrow will you hold them for me here's the deal those oranges are coming up they're not going down

that's a whole bunch of wine they're not coming down so I get them and send them up and uh I Squeeze him put him up for wine and he hollers up after they hit the first tier and asks me to send them back and I tell him what oranges he goes oh I got you so that night I hear him holler to Joe's neighbor which is one of their hangarounds and sends him a kite I still don't know who Joe is I have no clue I'm just a youngster so Joe hollers hollers over to me

has a s actually that's how he did everything and says uh hey you got those Oranges I told him I ain't got no oranges for you dude I got nothing for you right after I said I got nothing for you it was like Bam Bam Bam all these lines are hitting in front of my cell with kites right and it's all in a big Bots Mexican Mafia big bot be cool youngster what are you doing youngster big bot right I'm like I don't worry about him I gotta worry about every Mexican on the tier after

him right luckily for me Danny was from Lakewood my homeboy and he's in the cell next to me so he sends me a kite he's got an idea of some of what's going on he goes what's happening I ride it all down to him this is what went on this how it went down I can't send those back even if I wanted to I'd be down there with him he goes I got you and then Morgan himself hollered over he goes hey youngster he goes we're good he goes I know mhm I saw all right

I certainly sent him half the wine when I got done Here you go brother you know boom and uh that sells that was the first cross today's episode is also sponsored by Mando this should come as no surprise to you but there's only one product I trust to keep my pits smelling good Mando whole body deodorant you can use it on your whole body yes your whole body talking about your gu the bottoms of your feet the back of your kneecap everywhere it's dermatologist tested and gentle on all your bits it controls odor For 72

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them think you're good with them but you're not if you ever get next to them and you can get them and you don't get them you'll be down there with them you got to get Them but you just don't talk to them you don't you know none of that right there it's all about you're down there you're supposed to know what time it is you know right and if you're not down there you're supposed to know what time it is so so now you're here in fulam locked up with between they got the brand on

your left side you got L on your right side how does this form into you joining a gang well I I got put on the ab yard that time so I'm seeing a lot of what's Going on right uh I'm seeing guys pull knives out of their ass leave it next to the toilet another guy picking it up whacking dudes I'm watching the cops shoot the guy in the head shoot the warning shot in the air afterwards wow I'm watching this whole dirty game I'm just a kid right it's the ya kid ya baby and

I'm seeing why that cop just killed that dude because he no warning shot shot him in the head then he shot in the air uh funny thing too is this all went Down on the yard one time and I'm sitting down you're supposed to be down and I'm down and I watch this lizard run down the wall across the cement right up my pant leg and I jump up ow right next to me boom get down and go back down I still haven't found that lizard but pooped it out later yeah so they're still beating

me up these cops are regularly you know I mean I'm did to that yeah I did to that black cop regularly and I get I get a kite from Joe himself and he's telling me youngster there's buses the courts had just order all a fome shoe to be single cell because the cells were so small so they were taking a lot of bus loads of people and they were moving them over to San Quinton and Joe had got at me you know by then I know him personal friends with him we're good you know and

he tells me hey they're going to kill you here so you know you know that's that's the thing they're going to get you in a Position where they can shoot you and get away with it and you're dead you know right ones are going to set you up there's buses going to San Quenton you need to try to go there I didn't know it I was on the bus the next day what did you do to get on the bus nothing I was already already on it so when I hit Quinton it was like a

big old relief I mean Quinton was dangerous but here was their policy the cops had a segregated Chow hul they were playing the game too Um if you could get it into your cell you could have it because they don't do Sal searches wow yeah and that's just how it was you you might see them account time they roll by real quick and then you might see this this female Co she'd come by with the ax handle and check your bars every day and just walk through and that's it and uh so you could really

bid there oh man you can you and and it's a dangerous place Quinton was man So it was fome too they were both they just a different style what was Quinton like Quinton was I'll tell you so the top tier was death row okay I was in East block Bayside and uh the other side was all death row the top tier on my side was death row and then there was old MCU in the back management control unit youngsters aren't aware of those now and then it was shoe and let's put this way guy's going

getting walked to the shower by the cop bam dude throws a Bomb out of the cell pipe bomb it doesn't go off the cop puts the guy in the shower comes back and makes the cardinal sin and picks it up the bomb goes off a this cop is running and he's got cops chasing him he's yelling they got me they got me they got me and he's hitting the back stairs running down the tier this way the cops are trying to trap him he's like a cat on the loose right is he on fire no

just the bomb he just out when the bomb went up his hands Screwed up he thought it was you know meant for him he didn't know it meant for him or the guy he put in the shower but yeah they finally eventually caught him and got him out and got him cooled down but it wasn't meant for him wow and then another guy on the second tier I was down on the first tier guy gets stabbed on the second tier they throw him on the gurnie and there was a policy in Quenton if you got

th because all EX Vietnam veterans were the medical and All that they get you the medical alive you were probably going to live so they running down running down the back stairs they get just about in front of my cell and somehow this Mexican was out on the tier had a knife he jumped off the before they had the the mesh and all that this was way back in the 80s he jumped off the the tier and I swear that knife hit that guy's chest before his feet hit the ground and then he just started

going at it until he got shot Yeah they killed him the guy on the stretcher is dead and then uh another guy he uh the ab hits him and he just he's got like a 100 holes in him he's just he's done he's not going to make it and he's on the stretcher and he's not long to live and they pull him out of the cell and the last thing he does is tail reaches over and he grabs the Sergeant's pant leg and he tells him watch him sge he's got a knife and Dies so

the inmates were truly running the prison oh yeah yeah they're running the prison the cops okay so they're not running the cops this is the thing right the cops are doing their get down their thing and as long as you're not not getting at them you're not stabbing them you're not doing that they care less right so meaning they could basically kill with impunity as long as you weren't touching the cops and then in San Quenton there was so many murders And stuff going back to court that Tamal California for almost two years told San

Quenton don't send us any more court cases we're not taking them so now was murder For Hire murder for free murder for everything you know even a prose we sport it was what it was it was you get out there and just you had a little bit of a problem with somebody it was a big problem for them you know all right guys so we are in the era of non-stop information obviously we are more Connected with events going on nationally and globally than ever before this has made many of us feel like experts in

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uh yeah I I put I put in work on on on several things if okay so fast forward I'm on the East Yard and I got the keys okay so I take and I I give all the uh skin heads on the bottom tiers on all the unit the keys to the units on all the bottom I take all the nlr and I give them the keys to the top I'm collecting the kites I'm doing all of that but they're putting these Chesters on the yard they're telling me who they are and I'm whacking them

I'm doing it um I'm getting away with it because they want me to get away with it you Know so I'm cutting them I'm doing all of that myself and uh junior one of the skin heads comes at me and he goes Ronnie he goes uh why are you hitting all these dudes yourself well you know what I'm not going to ask anybody to do anything that they don't know I'm willing to do myself so he goes listen man he goes all the heads he goes you got our muscle whenever you need I already had

the ride you know but he goes you got our muscle Whenever you need it that was a Unity that's sometimes rare sometimes the heads in the nlr B bump heads in there um so it was rare but it was because of how I did that and then Junior eventually moved in with me another thing was how I ran the yard so everybody did their kitties and I got kicked the stuff that was going to Palm Hall any drugs anything come I get that it goes back common knowledge doesn't matter it goes back to to Palm

Hall and The Fellas in there that are doing time for whacking some child molester so that other guys can go home they're getting NS and I'm going to make make sure of it then but not everybody has money you know what I mean so back then you could get the old uh 6s of uh um I'm getting a brain lock um psea fed for colds in a cold setup right so anybody that wasn't getting money I'm telling them hey you get these 60s man you send them cold setups to me and I'm Taking all this

psea fed out of the cold setups cuz it's a fetan mhm and I'm putting in baby powdered things so I end up with about 5 and2 lbs of a veteran so I'm going to get out and throw a batch that's how I'm getting getting on my feet right when this violation done I got it in there but then somebody hit the yard from Fontana and tells me Ronnie and he's a cook he goes I want to try to throw that here because they got flares back here I can get some Phosphorus he goes I can

get everything I need I think and was he successful I don't know because he goes here's what I'll do I got a brand new BMW at home at my mom's you can have it he goes just let me have that Su fed you got and so he was going to attempt to cook up meth in prison in prison in San Quinton no this was in uh this was in chin this was fast forward inin East a little while later so let's go back to San Quinton where you basically are now becoming an Adult you're surrounded

by this yeah kind of horrendous violence um how were the gangs segregated back then I didn't know Nazi low rider that's what nlr means when he says that I didn't know they were in state prison they they were in ya but this was prior to them actually see the nlr started in a funny way when you go to ya right in yts it started to become a little bit of a gang but at first it was this you drove up somewhere they ask You are you a biker a surfer a stoner or a Nazi low

rider a Nazi low rider was a guy that uh he's a white guy but he kind of low rides so you know don't get us up with the Mexican get down but we like all that yeah like you look half Mexican you look CH you're dressed like it you got your tats like it you say homie like it yeah and I got the I got the Pendleton and all that in in my trailer right now and I drove down as pull behind me but uh that's all there I mean I'm trying to I'm trying to

get away from my talk with my hands I just met a guy in Vegas right he's Diamond dog breeder okay and he's got a nice breed and uh he's he's given me the breeding rights to a a a probably $5,000 Champion Dog Champion bloodline he's given it to me 2,000 of my own money it's going to the nonprofit and uh he's giv me breeding light rights and he's going to get with me on trying to get some because I don't see why somebody Incarcerated a a veteran that's Mobility impaired can't get a pure bread I

want you know a lot of them say to me hey Ronnie that's great what you're doing you're getting a dog that'll help me get out of a chair that'll help me do all of that but I can't protect my own family and my house seater I'm I'm I'm Mobility impaired I want a dog that will do something for me too so these dogs are smart they're trainable for Mobility impaired and they're also trainable as Really good guard dogs so that's my goal and I want these guys to have Champion Bloodlines where they know they can't

breed them you know so that's what I'm going to do with it but they'll get that champion line they'll get that good dog they know that if somebody comes in their house before they could even get out of the chair being impaired their home and family at least is going to be in protected as much as that dog can do you know let me tell you them dogs can Do a lot um now you're in the 80s in San Quinton are you recruited by like what is the difference between the brand and the nlr and

how they operated at least then in California prisons and who did you go under who did you get with okay so I was with nlr but like I said it was a fad you know um you hung with nlr you were a low rider that was your get down um so what happens is that brand all gets hit Rico they get made one of the five that gets slammed in his shoe and They need a tip a group to uh to run the mainlines for them their drugs their everything right like you know with the

the ma everybody knows the feds know everybody knows the serenos the ma got that that's you know what I mean new the Familia running the the northern Mexicans or the new structure whatever they got going on is is going on that's happening so and this is all coming knowledge um but the the brand never you know they ran the woods And everything but they never had that kind of stronghold well when they grabbed the ride they did the nlr is the ride yeah I love that they did so when they grab the ride they had

that they had that control they had that the problem was that the nlr got out of control they're up and down the Department of Corrections they're they're getting into it with cops everywhere unnecessary killings all of that and uh they got the feds coming Down on them and Fox News said they had about, 1500 members and that's a good-sized group AB never had that many they never had more than a hundred really and that's because every one of the ones they got were intelligent and brutal you know they never came they never had to go

and fix one of their hits because they did it ugly right and uh so the the nlr became that tip but then they thought they could uh they could go against the Ab come on my thing was this if you're going to go against that tip you need to put a gag out order on the whole nlr that they can't even speak to them dude yeah you got sheer numbers and you can annihilate a tip just by sheerly overwhelming them but no trust and believe they're not stupid they're going to split the nlr in half

they're going to turn them against each other and then they're going to bring the skin heads in on it to help annihilate them ironically Right now in the prison system California nlr doesn't really exist in California it exists everywhere else you're not going to go to a penitentiary in the Feds that they aren't there um just like the ab they started in Cali state prisons commit Rico crimes and then now they're in the feds which amazed me because when the feds were hitting nlr with a RICO Act I thought it should have been Deco act

for disorganized crime because they just the Nlr was like this the concept was this every Nazi low rider should have the ability to be a shot caller every Nazi low rider should be able to take the keys to a yard in a minute and know what they have to do and know what the right thing is to do know who how to set the kitties up know how to get them know where they have to go know how to move everything from from shoe to shoe to prison to prison and that's the way it was

Supposed to be so what it ended up being though is you'll have pockets of organization like an nlr in California could have went anywhere organized a group of nlr there hit the lick they wanted to to hit and then the organization as far as being organized go just spreads apart again and they're all doing their own thing um it didn't really come real organized until the feds came in right once the feds were going to hit Them with organized crime they they first thing they had to do was organize them right so they put them

all in the shoe they they as many as they could get validated in the shoe yeah and they began organizing hierarchies this and that and and and ass signing this and doing that and they they just they know what they're doing and then they then they Reco okay so the feds actually made them a better stronger more organized gang when they put them all together in The did everything it took to be able to justify calling them an organized criminal organization now when you say handling the kitty can you explain that okay if you were

okay so say I'm in Chino right and have the keys and this is just how it went down so I'm in Sycamore I got the keys bam to the I put keys in every unit all right people back in Palm Hall ABS back in Palm Hall they're slammed right dudes that did hits child bless just they're Back there slammed okay so you would come in and the whites have to be quicker more organized better stronger faster than the rest of the groups because our guys that come in they're not coming in out of street gangs

people are coming into chin the white guys looking like Bill Gates you could have them fix your computer but don't give them a knife so I just you got to you gota we got to whoop them into shape so that I know This guy next to me is willing to stab when it happens and everybody else has to know that too so we work with what we got and how how it goes so I would you come you get in a cell and I'd tell you hey homie look so you know I'm just a messenger

okay so what I'm about to tell you don't get mad at me it's the process it's the way it goes down if you got any drugs keester didn't tobacco anything like that get on the toilet get it out give it to me I'll give you back what You can have that's the way that works don't think you can secretly hide it from me and because the minute you take it out anywhere here and try to get rid of it I'm going to know when you're done I'm not going to stab you I'm just a messenger

but somebody's going to want to and I'm here to tell you they will and I would just break it all down and I'd say this is how it works you go to store anything over $20 you're kicking in 20% to the kitty go for 100 I'm going To give you a list for for 20 you're not going to give me a list or tell me what you think it should have I'm going to give you a list and you're going to get it again I'm just a messenger if you don't want to get it that's

fine somebody that does get the kitty and pay to it's going to want to stab you and I'm here to tell you they will okay so Kitty is basically gang dos it's uh not really because it doesn't just go to gang so when that happens when you also When you go out to shower so you just got there the kitty when you don't have nothing and you just get there and you come out and you're going to shower the guy that has the unit Kitty is going to have shower shoes shampoo soap all of that

out in front of the cell so everybody can use that also I'm going to come by twice a day I'm going to put a a cigarette on your bars a cup of coffee for you and cigarettes cup of coffee for your s twice a day that that all comes From the kitty that's what I mean it's like union dues you pay it in it's almost like an insurance policy or something right and it's either taken through extortion or you get down with us but either way you're kicking in there is no getting down it's not

an option yeah here's the thing you're not going to win I make that clear when I'm telling people you can think all of this you can be as big as you want if I send one guy and he can't do it I'll send Three if I send three and they can't do it I'll send five I'll send a big guy in to tackle you wrap your legs up and hold you down on the ground while the other three stab you you can't win you don't have to like it I may not like it but whatever

it is you're going to do it it's just the way it is did you ever have to take things there to that point oh sure absolutely there's guys that tested it you know and then everybody else got to what testing that looks like And you're doing that to maintain order to make sure everybody eats and to if you don't to to exert your own power or else the other gangs are going to take it from you if you don't then white guys are going to store that are giving us to 20% they're giving it back

to whites but now they're just going to get mopped up in the hallway and have everything took from them right so you know what 80% of something is better than 100% of nothing right it buys you protction it kind of Does even though that's not the way it's looked at that's not what's said that's not it's still the outcome you know whether you take the bumpy road the smooth road to get to a destination you're still in the same place fascinating okay so you're now you're in San Quinton doing you got a six you got

a six piece now yeah now I got six did you get out I did and this is where it all comes in so I've been toying with AB then you know and there's guy's Blinky Grip and he he just passed away um old school AB you you hear people talking and they talk all these guys now but like Dean ly he told Bobby Butler he told but these were old guys uh Ronnie Harpo Harpo uh vicious these guys were all back in the beginning you know did you ever meet like Michael Thompson or Thom Mills

personally and this is what happens okay so I get out and the Fellas come to me and said hey we need you to do a favor for somebody they came to you On the street no they came to me before I got out okay we need to do a favor with somebody well now I've been kicking it with these dudes they've been giving me this here or there I kind of half of me feels obligated I need to do this I've been getting everything from these guys you know a little piece of me scared that

if I tell them no what might happen after I've been kicking up with them through this whole term um anybody says they're not is a liar so there's a Piece of that too so it just seemed easier just to do what I was being asked to do okay and that's all I'll say about what I was being asked to do and everything I had no idea who this was being done for until I get arrested for the first time in the feds in the '90s so I'm in the feds hang on take us to how

you got to the feds okay so so you came home what did you have a plan your first time you got paroled from I came Home and I did what needed to be done right and uh it died so that that whole thing now it's it's done it's good good on you youngster I'm going back on violations violations violations dope yeah you're a twe right yeah everything was dope at the time and uh I end up getting a federal beef I caught up in a sting I got a federal beef go to the feds for

the first time for dope okay so tell us about that how you got was this when you were dealing with the Mexicans No we haven't got to that point yeah we haven't got that this this is after another point but yeah so I get caught up in a federal sting I end up in a feds for meth okay for meth okay and now is it it's Crystal it's no it's it's biker dope at this point still right the people are still cooking I'm cooking the whole everybody I know is cooking my mom's cooking we're we're

all Chef boy RDS at that point Grandma's cooking everybody yeah the dog's out there doing His thing with the dog food everybody's doing something right so I'm getting took down I go to the feds but because of who I am right I'm not going to go to little small prisons or this that I'm not going to go to mediums I'm going to USPS United States penitentiaries and I wind up in Atlanta Georgia and this is where I know and this is where it all happened with with Gotti too this is this is where I find

out who I did the favor For this was Barry Mills that's who the favor was for I never knew it he did youngster boom all right so Barry Mills can make anybody now look Barry Mills was he's he's he's been in the state but he was he was Federal at this point he's running the federal thing but make no bones about it the feds were going to Di dictate to California what they could or couldn't do you know Bobby crane New York when he had Quinton wasn't being dictated to by nobody you know um Barry

Mills became who he became in the feds became you know if he said it in the feds it was gold and it went you know and he famously like I think they killed a DC black they went to war with the DC blacks right that was kind of my out too but here um so I I'll go with the Gotti thing right so I keep my mouth shut my ears open this is what I'm instructed to do I know I'm with the big boys now okay so are you with the brand officially no no I'm

just getting my boot my boots Laced up at this point I'm getting I'm getting shown things and he wants me to see it I did I got out and did this guy a favor that he needed done and they had nobody else at the time that was getting out to be able to do it that they trusted you made a piece of prison history you you touched a guy for Barry Mills founder of the AR of the Aran Brotherhood right well one of the founders but uh um so Barry John had just got knocked out

Really basically got got hit and stunned and and beat up and that was right before I got there so Barry's telling me just just listen and watch so I'm going with him and boom him and Mac um Big Mac so John had hired them to get the dude whack the dude whack the dude that that put hands on him black dude and he paid to have that done so yeah boom he pays the dude gets got but he doesn't get killed now people say well John never paid again I got some news for you cuz

Here's how it went down matt got on one side Barry got on another the next month and they tell John hey the money didn't get there John goes yeah I did you already told me it got there they go oh no John that that's every month you got it all wrong wow you're gonna pay every month okay so John's making a decision now not just for him but every other guy that's in his small car at the time how they're going to get treated on that Yard how that's going to happen now people think it's

wrong for a guy to say okay and if you got it to pay it but that's not wrong sometimes that's smart sometimes you kick the ball down the road so that you can then deal with it at a different time right you know and that's what he had to do because they he would have got annihilated on that yard right because it's not just Barry Mack or t or any of these guys it's not just them they're not even going to be the Ones that come for you it's every white guy on that yard that

star struck by the brand that wants to put in work for him and they're g at the bit they're not hurting for guys to get to go stab people they got it they got it hemmed up that way so John knows all this he's not a stupid guy I didn't get to worry it's that being stupid you know nobody knows how that story would have played out in the end or why he even chose to pay because he ended up dying of cancer Right you know but so even for a hit gone wrong that that

didn't they didn't get the job done he still had to pay the ab every month yeah you still got to pay for the hit cuz they're not done they're not done making the hit yet we might have missed you here but guess what the next spot will get you so you're paying every month and and we're sorry about your mistake but we've already started putting work in so you're going to pay WOW you know or we can just go ahead and Send you home right now yeah you know so that's basically how it went and

yeah he did get and that's extortion any way you look at it of course so John Gotti himself the Teflon Dawn was getting shaken down by a bunch of B crackers from Suburban California yeah wow and that's how it happened and I'm going tell you this right now when you look at it if you put yourself in the seat of everybody in that move right because I've done that I've put myself In the seat of Barry Mills what if I was him and I was doing this and what if I was John and this was

happening I would have done the same thing I would have paid them do is at a later date in another place might have tried to tried to clean that up in a different way but for that moment and not just for me either you kick it with me you're one of my guys I got a rope around you you're one of us you know you I gotta worry about you too Because you're going to pay the price for my decisions at that point as well so I just sit myself in all these little positions and

this was all part of my grooming all part of my learning on stuff you know and that was a big one and Levan worth the Italian sitting me down and I was kind of kicking it with him I was fascinated by the language and the we got a rope around this one he's one of ours he's one of us I mean it dawned on me that these Italian guys Could really sit there and have an in English plain English conversation in front of you you think they're talking about one thing and they're talking about the

guy that's going to take you in the car right now is killing you yeah you know they could just do that fascinated by it you learn a lot the code is incredible yeah now uh just just so we don't jump ahead because every bit of this is fascinating how long were you at USP Atlanta for about a year and a Half okay how long of the stretch do you have in the feds at this point I did four years at that point but it wasn't uh at that point in the feds it wasn't a uh

we have to give you tin or we have to give the The Matrix on the whole thing there was parole then yeah was mandatory like are exactly and and you know they still had co-ed prisons where the guys were allowed warm fuzzies there was a lot of things still going on the things changed when they got the Matrix and They got the whole sentencing guidelines and all that where judges were locked in and you get what you going to get um well what did you so you're coming up being groomed at USP Atlanta first by

guys like Barry yes by the other okay and uh and what was that like what was that prison like what were the USPS like in the 80s the USPS basically haven't changed much they're dangerous places you uh if you you don't get to walk wrong you only Get to do that once and you never have to worry about it again you know know the USPS are dangerous and if you take California prison system as dangerous as it is on them level four yards and you take all the Gunners out that's what you got in the

feds because you don't have Gunners in the building you know um the feds are dangerous the United States penitentiaries are dangerous vicious places and uh I mean I got hit there I got hit by the Aztecs wow um where it Was in uh uh mcquery Kentucky they had had a body yet and the warden said he's not locking down for anything until they have a body well the Aztecs and the Northerners are on the yard the Aztecs worked out by my cell every every day so they'd come they'd work out and I knew they all

have to have a knife on them it's it's their bylaws that's what they have to do and they put all their knives right there and we were friends well my S owed one Of them owed one of them 10 stamps just 10 stamps my neighbor Randy in Colorado AB owed him $1,500 so who they going to hit they're going to hit my S because they want to let Randy know we'll hit this dude over 10 stamps you better pass so they're going to hit my S well their dude shooter he's talking to me they're all

up there and I'm up there by myself and this is where my hot head and my mouth gets the best of me he's talking to me with all this stuff and you know So finally I tell them you know what shooter you and your knife let's go let's get in there right now let's get it so we step in in the cell and I see a shadow he's pulled his knife out he's coming after me but I grab his hand I flip him over on the bed and I'm getting him I'm hitting him but I

left his seven Partners right there at the door with knives and I they got a rod I feel the rod hit me like four times wham wham wham right so they get me four times With the rod I let go of his hand i' grab his and he hits me twice with a rod boom boom I could feel I knew they got my spleen and something else probably so they drag him out and they leave cat from Tennessee comes in says what do you want me to do I told him go here go here get

a knife come back I want you to tie me off I'm running through these Mexicans on my way out his eyes he goes you need to run through medical and he takes off so I'm in there by myself and I'm thinking man I'm getting woozy if I let myself go out here I'm GNA die I already know it if if I if I play hard and just try to bleed it out I'm gonna bleed it out so I go down the stairs tell the cop look man I fell on my knife he goes yeah coming

down the stairs I told him yeah he goes how many times you fall on it I said oh about six he goes he goes can you make it to Medical can you walk I told him I insist on it but I didn't make it I I wound up On a helicopter I woke up flying over the Kentucky mountains on the way to Tennessee so then the Florida car you collapsed on your way there I fell out yeah wow and you were really leaking yeah I was doing I was leaking pretty good matter fact to Warden

thought I was going to be the first body so um and what uh did they touch an organ or or how did you how did they save you oh this was uh in Kentucky they flew me to to the trauma room in Tennessee and uh It was my spleen and and they took care of that and everything and the next day took me back put me in the hole it was it was what it was you know what I mean and he just missed my heart wow so uh so then and that was my own

fault I didn't need to to say anything right then about all of this you know I'm just a hotthead I still ain't learned everything and didn't know how to keep mouth shut patience would have been so now the Florida car that night says uh we're Getting the Aztecs in the morning there's only 15 of them or smashing them out and uh Ronnie's coming back and they're all getting off the yard but there's a lot of Northern Mexicans off the yard and they got a a treaty with the the Aztecs so all the whites on the

yard tell the Florida car no we're not doing that Florida car tells them you were doing it you don't have to so the whites got the Florida car at dinner they didn't want a big old Riot on the Yard just over one guy I could just be transferred out it was the smart call but Florida was like no that we're not letting that happen and uh because I came in with that whole car and then uh they all started coming in the hole because at dinner all the woods on the yard jumped the Florida car

which is like 12 dudes you know and they they got down they come in they say we tried Ronnie and we all got shipped together oh yeah that's wild so you're and this Is your first Federal stretch still no that was my second one okay hold on so let's go back because there's so many pieces of your life we just this how we do it we move through chronologically so you got the L worth after USP Atlanta no leor didn't come till later I I went home from Atlanta Super yeah but I'm but I'm on

a weird Dynamics I'm on a federal and state parole that's very difficult to do so I went up killing my federal number on State violations you know so that all got taken care of so now the feds are done now I'm back in the States still going violations the way the states work is this you might have four years but you get out and you run that time you ran doesn't count wow okay so then they get you so when you're running it's its own kind of incarceration you can't do nothing you're on the Run

you're up you might as well stay high all the time so you don't have to go to sleep because You know when you go to sleep they're going to get you so you're trying to stay up 30 40 as long as you can you're just going to run it out till they get you and uh whatever you can do so they get you they take you in you go in they violate you they give you six months well that counts off of the Pearl the four years of pearl then you get back out you're on

the run again because you just can't stop doing dope you're strung out like a research monkey and it it's What it is it's psychological it's physical it's you know the whole nine yards so it just they just turn these little beefs into these big long stretches of up your life and uh it it is just the way it was and the way it is so I'm doing that and and uh I end up robbing this connection now I meet the guy he's in uh Rialto and he's a doctor and he's messing with some cartel dudes

he's doing this and that and I meet him the First thing I think is I'm robbing this dude taking him down man he's going down taking everything he's got now my mind with my criminal thinking you know and starts to think that I'm justifying it I know he's a little in debt with the card tell I'm telling myself well he's not going to pay bam I can get this dude I can take care of that I all did it all just to help him now now I'm doing the dude of favor I'm going to give

this much to these guys and they're going to Not be on him and he's it's really really I'm doing him a favor by robbing him so I turned what I'm doing into doing him a favor psychologically and that's how you start to justify things you're numb to the violence now it doesn't matter you know you see a guy get uh what do you call him the uh zip ties you see a guy get one put on his neck pulled tight and he's out there just on the handball court and everybody you just walk away step

over his body And keep on stepping you just push away from it you know you witness stuff like that no I seen that happen in Coleman yeah yeah it was crazy so for you to rob a square on the outside is nothing it's nothing he's a doctor he's dealing he's mixed up and uh not only is it nothing I would justify things in a way that he needed me to do this I was the guy that was going to save his life so you were going to rob him sell his dope and pay off his

debt take the Money the Rolexes the everything I took out of his deal and give the money twice what he owed to these cartel dudes and they're not going to whack him he's going to be all right and really the only chance he has of making it through the next week is if I Rob him you know of course sure you know surely I'm I should be awarded a medal for this yeah so this is but you tell yourself and this is how your thinking goes in any situation you know people will say it's No

they just haven't recognized it they haven't evaluated what they're doing you know once you start evaluating how your your thoughts going right it's a corrupt thinking it's it's a a corrupt process and it feeds on itself pretty pretty soon it becomes the only way you think everything has to be done for the the benefit of everybody else funny how you're the only one on top but you know it's just it's just weird and you don't see it when it's happening you don't see It after it's happened you don't see it until you really get into

something that starts pointing things out and you start to to evaluate well when I think back I did do this you not necessarily be a gang member either to have corrupt thinking criminal thinking and corrupt process you know just about anybody can sit back and say yeah well I do justify things so there's a denial process involved and all my thinking was done like that I can I'll sit right now look You in the eye and tell you I never did nothing that didn't have to be done everything I did in life even though I

went to prison for it I had to do it I saved those guys you know what I mean no I I made money I did this and that and I was living good and I was on the run and I was you know going back and forth to prison doing all that I was in the game and living good is certainly one way to look at it I wouldn't an outsider looking at that life wouldn't say you're Living good right but it depends on how you're weighing what looking good is you know what I mean

living good or looking good at that point looking good was you got everything you're on the Run you're going to go to prison you're going to lose it all but right now I got pounds of dope I got these cars I got this and that I got all the jewelry the gold chains all the things that are going to get the attention that's going to take me back to prison I got I'm Loving it right you know what I mean and at the time that's my thinking so you went Rob this guy yeah I robbed

him I uh I pistol whop him MH um did some things to him did some bad things to him uh and got shot in the leg on the way out somehow cuz somehow he got out of his duct tape had a gun in his house and I was at the sidewalk and he got a good one off hit me in the leg here came out like boom and then my partner he's sitting there with a gun looking froze Up and I tell him hey man shoot that so he turns the light him up and we

leave and I'm in the car dude's in the not little rider in the front seat 's driving and I tell him give me your belt boom so I take his belt I tie a turnour to get around my leg and uh give me the guns I throw him out the window and I tell homeboy where are you going he goes to the hospital I said you might as well drop me off the PE office are you out of your mind no you go to High Desert so we Shot out there I got all the loot

I'm the one that had it all what'd you get oh probably a couple hundred thousand dollars a bunch of dope Rolexes you know um I took $5,000 bundle out and gave it to homeboy because was other things I didn't prove of that went on took another 5,000 out gave it to him and I kept the rest you know and uh went to the hospital told him that uh I was in a neighborhood I shouldn't have been at heard a shot felt my pant leg go like This and somebody shot me I shouldn't have been there

cops took the report and they left then one of the guys that was with me gets busted in Walmart with a shotgun and uh he tells everything goes down now I got the FBI real OPD homicide and everything they're Hing up my house and as people leave my my mom's P people leave they're gaffling them up questioning them about me well they get uh this chick Veronica She leaves they put her in this van just about the time that happened I had somebody go take some money and go rent me this mustang souped up Mustang

boom I get it I'm going to take off to Vegas and uh I'm ready to leave out I should have just went out then but I didn't this chick tells me hey Ronnie can you take me to the store to get some diapers for my kid I told her yeah I'm on my way out so just come out jump in and that's that and we go she goes in gets diapers Gets back in the car and I'm driving I'm looking in the mirror and there's this truck behind me and I tell her hey look uh

when we get to your house I'm hardly even going to stop so they're on me right now roped I know it the feds it's all I don't know what this is happening about whether something else they're looking for me for gang stuff or what it is but I know they're on me so I said when I get there you get out quick she goes they're not on I said yeah they are They're not on you they're all over me so we get there she gets out runs up to her porch now there's a little car

behind me I ZIP down this is in Victorville and I go and a there's a diesel truck coming I'm in this mustang which gets it you know so the diesel truck comes I jump in front of it and punch it well this guy in this little fast ass car he had goes behind it and he's on me okay so I'm on the freeway now going the wrong way against Traffic W and they try to they know I'm getting off at the next off round they know it and I do I flip it around sideways I'm

coming back out they got a van with Veronica in the back this way they got another car that way right so you know what I do I Ram them I punch it and I Ram right between both them cars that Mustang spins around and it gets stuck in park I can't get it out of they yank me out the news is there they rough me up a little bit so I got that I got That home invasion and uh I wait a year and after a year violation is up I take a deal right but

part of the deal is they give me 28 years let me out for 90 days on a Vargas waiver to get my Affairs in order before I go do this 20 years and if I come back I only get 16 oh you got some thinking to do no there's no thought at all yeah wait what am I talking about you thought yeah yeah to me 90 days is a head start okay so that's how that went down in my mind the Whole courtroom was laughing you're GNA this guy this kind of time and let him

go for 90 days come on everybody knows what I'm GNA do that is a fascinating kind of experiment that the justice system I mean they can't do I doubt they really do that anymore but it's called a Vargas waver a Vargas waiver and that's a state law yeah and it's basically saying hey look can you be a good boy like we're giving you 90 days to think about to they're almost Tempting you like yeah go make a run for so you're in there even though it's a year you're a drug addict yeah you're strung out

all you care about is they're telling you you can get high you can run for 90 days and you can stay high for 90 days you can do all of that and if you can run for six more months you can stay high for for for nine months you're good to go all you got to do is just sign well you know what I'm signing I couldn't sign fast enough so then I get Out out right from the gate so by this time my my first wife she's living in Vegas and she's hooking okay and

she's making a lot of money I didn't even know how much I didn't like it you know so I get there to Vegas and uh she makes a deal with me she said look here's a deal when you make as much money as me at what you're doing I'll quit good deal right until she goes out the Magic convention's in town she goes out she's Gone not even a full hour she comes back gives you $5,000 and goes back out because there's too much money to be made and that month she probably brought in $200,000

now I'm thinking yeah she's never quitting I I don't have a snatch I can't make this kind of money I'm in Vegas it's not going to happen and uh eventually she she winds up and she they're using condoms all of that so She's not getting nobody's kid she ends up with my kid to be born I had daugh her now but uh um she comes back and she tells me we're going to lose everything now ironically though I got a back up how though I'm GNA tell you I got a back up though I got

a back up to when I was in the county jail for that year because something happened that fits into this and there was a pison who had molested a kid in the high desert and all the southern Mexicans Were waiting for this guy to show up wherever he showed up it was all bad for him so just so happens that night I get a pis of s okay I step out and the Sereno telling me hey Ronnie uh find out about that dude I tell him all right so he heard it as soon as I

go in he hands me his paperwork boom oh he is and he's got a little bit of a drunk driving charge and this and that but they're harassing him because they suspect he's involved in something bigger they put a Hold on his money they've done all of this they're screwing his phone calls up I go back out I tell him yeah it's not him I come back in I tell him what do I call you he goes you can call me Nino all right Nino here's a shopping list I want you to put 20 bucks

I think it was 20 the first time put $20 list $2 or $30 list put it on there get what you want he no no that's good I said look man if you don't do this you're going to be using my stuff so do this use your Own stuff don't worry about it it's all right so he does the next time store comes out of the package stuff same thing I get him stuff give it to him they got to let him go he's getting out he goes to court he's getting out and he tells

me he gives me his phone number he's in Brownville Texas he goes uh you ever need any help you you call me wow tell him okay I don't know this dude's get down yet so she comes in pregnant she goes we're going to lose everything I said no I said look I can do this thing right no but the only guarantee key if I start doing this is that I'm going to prison and here's all I'm saying if I go to prison my little girl when she's born doesn't start calling somebody else dad and all

of that I already know what you're going to do you're GNA the neighbor before the ink dry on the arrest report the magician right yeah I already know what's going on a lot of money in magicians yeah Exactly so uh um she says you got to do what you got to do but yeah so okay so I called Nino right Nino's going to hook me up I got to go to Brownville Texas I hook I I get into Victorville and get in the mix with this chick there and I start moving stuff to Hawaii it's

small scale I build 1 ounce into six pounds but it's just and here's here's what happens there she's dealing with a Pisa the Pisa backstabs her cuts Her out and he's dealing directly with me but you know what my mindset is if you'll do it to her he'll do it to me cuz he's her friend so that's when I call Nino again and I tell him hey I need I need some help I'm G to come out there now I got a little cash Capital to work with so are you moving product out to Hawaii

by the way I'm doing it at FedEx y so I'm taking uh I'm taking a big when I'm doing the six pounds I'm taking a big Round glass deal right and I'm taking a colored sand you can't x-ray through sand so I got all this different colored sand so I'll put some on the bottom and I'll take the dpee and we'll wrap it up in dryer sheets we'll do all of this stuff get it all wrapped up for the smell coffee everything else you anything you read about I put it on there put it down

in the middle on top of that sand on the bottom and then start pouring this colored sand so it Looks like sand Dart in this jar wow and we get it all the way up bam seal it I'm rolling it up in bubble wrap put it in there sending it over getting it fedexed overnight wow and it's going out there this when I was doing 25 I was doing five maons of five pounds each and the different addresses sometime bacon houses where there nobody was but I would put in there that it get it doesn't

need to be signed for they leave it on the porch if no one's there You making a lot of money that's must be a huge markup I'll tell you okay so now that's how it came in so this so fast forward now calling going out to meet Nino Nino hooks me up with Warz cartel let me tell you something um those are some scary dudes you know all cartels are scary but they're scary because you just didn't know what the next minute was going to bring you sit in there in a room with them and

you didn't know what that next Minute was going to do Nino trusted him that's Nino I'm the white guy in the room um I did my deal with him but I didn't think I could ever show up with a couple hundred thousand and leave with it you know I was just gonna I I end up in a hole burnt on fire so that was ad and I explained that to Nino so Nino's like he with all even these cartels are woren Nino's a guy that's with everything right Nino tells me well we'll hook you up

again man and just go And it's closer to home closer to California go talk to this guy so I call I talk to him and I go out and that's Mutual Con well you were in Mexico no no with them in San dieo yeah okay they're going to do business with me they're still sketchy I I'm getting the same Vibe as I got from this war wars deal um but maybe they would have done good business who knows you know it could have all been me you know I mean a foreign area with foreign dudes

and I'm The only not foreign mon here and it could all go bad and if it did well so what it ain't the first time as far as they're concerned so the mutual con though there's more going on I get a call that says that some guy out of Norwalk Mexican Mafia dma and mutual Khan were coming together they were going to do this big deal right and uh money going back and forth and you know I read paperwork on it too afterwards where it looked like they Were both trying to infiltrate each other right

U big old thing on the court case but I got warned and told hey you know it's all bad it looks like it's all bad don't deal with them right now like okay so that's all well known too that's out there those cases are done so uh um that happened so I'm like okay I'm done with them S A Lo all right and whether it was just the guy or the organization I felt comfortable with the dude so I told him I said look man uh I'm paying 4,500 a pound he goes yes said I'm

going to give you $7,000 per pound all right we don't have to tell nobody that extra is for you he's going well said well nothing it's only me and you that know about it they don't have to know nothing okay so I said I don't want to touch dope no more I got these two women I'm going to introduce you to they're my Runners they'll pick it up from you they'll pay you they'll bring they'll Give you the cash then the two Runners would bring it to the guys that package it and Mel it all

I would do is move money here and there yeah so I set it up that way the minute the first time he took that money and kept that extra to himself I own that dude yeah his whole bloodline depended on me never saying nothing to those dudes about what he was doing right where were you meeting with them well I would have them meet in Victorville he would here's the way it Would work I would call and say I need 25 pounds okay it would come over on a backpack and I knew this was true

too because the dope sometimes would still have ants in it wow I didn't charge no extra for that answer free but uh so it would get packaged up so what would happen is uh I'd call him tell him I need it it' take the next day for it to get there I'd go to the and this is what I went down for so I'd go to the motel right bam I tipped the dresser over I Put all the money underneath there dresser back over plus my runner's money and I bought them both link andn Eddie

Bow's Expeditions right so hooked them up so they were all legal and insurance pay and all that and the two women would go I would tell them where the motel was leave the key at the office desk i' said look I got these two females coming I'm going to go get something to eat give them the keys when they get here tell them just wait for me oh yeah okay give Them $20 bam I leave and they would go get the money and everything then I would call Nino and say it's this room boom and

he would go there so he would make sure nothing went South with my Runners so Nino was basically I mean not Nino not Nino he's out not Nino the Mexican yeah mixed up with his name for The Connect that was getting the extra money and that was part of whole paying him make sure that everything went right right and did you have to cuz Nino is The guy who introduced you to all these did you have to kick him anything or no he just did it on the strength well it really wasn't on the strength

when you think about what I did for him too I did for him in the county jail you think it's a small thing right I don't know this guy I'm getting him store I'm helping him make it through that miserable couple of weeks he's going to be in there I'm helping him out you know and you let the Other Mexicans know like this guy's cool one yeah he's not the guy you know what I mean they were just Wai for the one guy sure um so yeah so he's just I was paying it forward there

not even knowing it he was too so that was Nino Nino was a good guy and he still is he's probably still in Brownsville I got his number I just never call him wow um okay so sen was doing this thing and and I was doing with this guy and he was making sure it all went right if you're buying buying P Meth for 7,000 a pound what are you selling it in Hawaii for 32 wow whoa that's over four times buddy that's four and a half times your money and I I got the paperwork

I I didn't bring I should brought I got the paperwork it didn't matter if you were buying an ounce or you were buying a pound you buying 10 PBS it's 32,000 a pound wow so and I'm doing them 25 pounds a week okay so it's a lot of money but half of that money stayed in Hawaii and the other half my sister's husband at the time tell on me and the other half would come to me it's still a lot okay when you when you do the arithmetic on it it still comes out to about

I don't know 85,000 I mean 850,000 every time you move the 25 wow right so half of that is is mine $425,000 profit so every week every week and it's coming we hollowed out VCRs okay stacking the money in it and then mailing these VCRs and I I'd pull up one Time I pulled up there's over a million dollars on my porch I tell in a car there's over a million dollars on that porch right now and nobody knows it yeah I would go in and uh start opening them up and throwing people money and

tell them count $10,000 bundles for me and getting it all stacked up and everything I then I at the end was trying to order one of the money counters it was a little difficult for me to find one of those I didn't have a business so I Didn't do that and so I was looking for those so what I end up doing was just weighing it you know and I'm weighing the money and and it worked out pretty good that way never more than a a bill off give or take you know but rarely even

that and are you sucked up at the time or are you clean oh no I could turn sideways and disappear like a like a a sci-fi movie yeah a little stick a little wind just a little breeze p in the beginning of all of this I wasn't Using okay and as long as I wasn't using it was all good the last month I started using and started making mistakes because when they took me down I wouldn't have went down if I wasn't using because some things happened uh FedEx okay so twice before there was a

problem with the delivery and I called FedEx and have them send it back and resent it whoa yeah yeah ballsy and it worked so this third time why not I just don't know that somebody's in jail Telling on me so they call to have me send it back and they're going to follow it back they then they call my number now I've never given them my phone number at FedEx so they do so I call to the house where everything gets mailed from and I tell them hey uh did you guys leave my phone number

with FedEx and one of the dudes in there tweaked out goes oh yeah were we not supposed to I bet normally I'd have shut everything Down right then would have never went back to nothing it would have been done but because I was spun I didn't wow at that house I had three houses in Vegas I had the one in Summerland million dollar home I had another one that was like 750 Grand and it was the dope house and then I had another 12-bedroom Ranch property over by Lake me wow um so the drug house

I had found out was had to had the da of Las Vegas living across the street and two doors down so I'm like I had chose This one to turn into a drug house so I'm going to get rid of it well in Vegas there's one money that's always good it doesn't matter about the economy or nothing one people's money is always good and that's the hookers and The Pimps they're always got money because the worse the economy you get the more stressed out people get the more they need to relieve it and uh they're

always making money so I'm going to sell it so I have a couple people in the car with Me my Escalade I'm pulling in to the drug house and she tells me Ronnie there's somebody in this house I said oh that's all right I think it's my packagers I pull in the driveway and moving vans boom right behind me I knew right then I it's over damn so they let her go they got me handcuffed in a chair right there on the garage by the driveway and there was a box of chronic weed I don't

know about 10 pounds I don't smoke it but everybody I know does So they're always asking me for weed so I just went and bought 10 lbs so I have to keep buying it had it there and I had a Act 10 on top of it and uh I'm sitting there looking at the box and I'm sweating and DEA goes oh you're worried about that he goes no no this the least of your worries and he kicks it to his partner I never heard about it again and he goes you can thank your brother-in-law he

goes cuz you were all the way under the radar we didn't know Anything about you so what happened your brother-in-law in Hawaii got busted in Hawaii yeah and then he told send them back to me so then and this is tough too because you're handcuffed you're in their car you're listening to feds with your phone now they got your Escalade they got your phone they got you they're calling people on your phone and they've been surveilling you and they're calling them and they're acting like you and getting them to make drug deals and you Got

a couple stupid friends that actually drive down and get cuffed up so you're like there's nothing you can do you're just like you know they're putting them in the car it's almost like when they're doing a Sting with these hookers you know yeah and you're watching that and they they kept me when took me to jail that time in in Las Vegas they put me in solitary they let me no phone calls no nothing about 10 days I'm in there in solitary and I know And my phone wasn't in my property and I know what

they're doing they're out there trying to work this phone they're trying to work this Escalade which I always drove from my and when I'd go if when I was at first when I was picking it up I'd go get this do and I just put it between the two seat stacked on the console everybody's like why don't you hide that why pounds of dope here you think I can hide that if they get H us I stand a better Chance you putting it in the wind MH you so what year is this you this was

in when all this went down this was in uh see I went I fell in 2000 on the robbery got out with Nino and all that going on so it was 2001 okay to uh to 2003 I was on the run until they finally took me down and uh and I was doing it in Vegas man I had uh I had my carlot guy you know he uh I had the Escalade EXT I had the the BMW they're all new the Escalade was sitting on 24in baso Spinners all Little rered out I had a Hummer

H2 I had the uh mitubishi Montero limited I had uh the one of the little fast cars too was a fast thing I recognize Maserati no um I went down to buy a a a it wasn't a panta I went down to buy a uh uh Lamborghini kach and this thing was sitting next to Acura NSX it was sitting next to it I thought it looked better I just liked it so I told him how much is this man and he goes That's the down payment of that one I said I'll take This wow you

know I end up I end up wrecking that thing though quick too I only had it about two days um so now you've got a Fed case for the meth yeah what and then you've got the robbery that you're on the run for in California but see California don't put a hold on me they let me do all that Federal time I do all that time I'm getting out leworth and I'm thinking I'm going to I'm I'm going home man I got no hold no nothing I'm Beat yeah so I have dress outs and everything

sent in they let me walk down the steps leworth touched the parking lot like Freedom cuffed me up took me to the county jail from the county jail flew me back to Rialto and been in there and gave me 28 years and didn't give me no credit for the federal time wow they waited all those years yeah on you they did it dirty man okay so let's get back to the feds real quick and then we'll move up to this this bid that where you Eventually changed your life so what were they charging you with

on the meth was it just meth or was it was it a CCE was it well I was the number one dude on the indictment okay so and my brother-in-law was telling um I ironically was only facing 12 12 and a half years my brother-in-law was facing 20s something years because he had had a cultivating case in Hawaii and they could double for the case that he had Had the prior he had they could double it up I see right but he ended up I ended up getting the most time he ended up getting eight

years and initially started with another informant when you read it he was buying from him for him and he ended up getting four years and I got 12 and a half years so by the time it was all done I guess I end up with 42 years by the time it was all done with the California time and the FED time the 42 years to do okay you only had 12 and A half in the feds even though you had fed points already yeah where do you go first and what was that stretch like the

that was all penitentiaries and uh now but now it's different now I got a little Prestige right now I know the get down I can walk to Walk talk to talk and carry the knife and do all of that but I'll tell you the the penitentiaries and the FEDS where they just got Whitey buser Hazelton okay so I'm in Hazelton everybody's got a knife you're going to Keep a knife in the feds or you're not going to you're not going last long you need one so I had one it's made of thick glass and it's

ground down at each end like that and it's got a leather sheath that goes in and it's just a thick piece of glass it's just ugly it's bad and I got that I got it right here the Mexican before me's obviously got a metal knife they're running yard but everybody going out to the yard going through the metal detector it's ringing ring ring ring Ring the cops just what can they do everybody's got a knife right cops just looking every now and then they'll tell a rookie hey check him out and the rookie go to

check him out and the little Mexican before me he tells him what you want this cop goes I don't want it and he pulls me over to search me the other cop the white cop he hits it and he go he knows it's the knife he goes take off man you need that more than I do it's just the way Hazelton is you Know so yeah wow do you ever have to use it yeah you're going to use your knife in the feds you know did you use it in self-defense or was it uh was

it part of the nlr was it part of the feds thing happened I wasn't in a position where I had to make bones um sometimes though I would step on it like if I bring you back a minute so we're at we're at Lancaster pen Penitentiary California level four yard just opened up we're all Out there and the nlr is discussing hitting this white [ __ ] on the yard okay because they're not going to walk the yard I got a laundry bag right there and when it first opened up there was rocks everywhere so

I hear dudes are kind of hean they kind of this dude don't want to do it that dude don't want to do it so I just started putting rocks in the laundry bag and I'm timing this dude that comes around so he gets around over here and I just come up from The side with that deal and come off the curb and wow it wrapped around splitting he hit the ground I went back dumped the rocks out sat back down I said okay let's go to the next topic and I just got sick of hearing

what was going on but your mindset was that I when they're grooming you to kill somebody they don't tell you you're G to you're going to think about it later in life you're going to feel bad about it later in life you know that's part of The whole giving back thing right now you know you done things to people that you know you think this guy had it coming but who are you to decide you think I'm going to do this thing to this guy and uh it's it's it when it's over it's over you

know what's done is done but no it's not this guy's got a mother brothers sisters kids there's a ripple effect that reaches out so far that's right you know and then this kidy has grows up and has kids but she never Forgets this and it has effect on that next generation and you don't think about these your groom not to think about it you're in this game but later on nobody told you that later on you're going to think about it and if you don't think about it later on when you get right and feel

bad about it guess what you're an animal yeah and I don't think you need to be out in society right you know uh how many killers did you meet in there that were like you had just been Groomed and and just were or high on dope or you know swept up in the life versus real encourageable people that just killed uh and felt nothing No Remorse and here's the thing you know the difference you have people that are in prison for murder but they're not Killers right they uh they did what they did whatever happened

happened you know they had a really bad night somebody got killed those aren't Killers when you sit Down and you're across from a killer you know it he don't have to tell you you don't have to ask nothing you know you are sitting across from a guy that will wipe you out your whole family your dog your goldfish everything and tomorrow it's business as usual those guys just have a look about them were you a killer no I was caught up in a in a in a deal you know I was caught up in it

and I know I wasn't a killer because Killers never feel bad about what they do mhm You know I feel bad about everything in life I've done that that was unjustifiable that I Justified any anything and everything that I've done I relive and replay the motion picture of of my my history and my life and I feel it I feel bad knowing that there's family members of guys I may have had stabbed that are out there knowing that I had that done MH you know so you were looked at in prison not as a killer

but as a boss it seems like if That's how you put you have the keys you're controlling it and yeah yeah you're up there um it's an elite crew and the problem is is that it's Lonely at the Top because let's say you're the number one guy there's only one number one yeah and there's only one way somebody gets your number one chair you got to vacate that chair so if I'm number two and I have a thirst for number one my position is this I got to get rid Of you so I can have

that chair I got to watch you I got to make sure that that that when you make that mistake I'm around to see it I got to make sure that if you don't make a mistake I can possibly make it look like you did I got to do what I got to do because I want that spot nobody's happy with number two did you ever have a number two plot to take your SP everybody plotted everybody it's just when you're In that thing okay so I'll tell you a story Junior on the yard that I

moved in the cell with the skin heads in a got validated in California right so we're all on the on the line they slam it Down Bam I got the keys at the time for whatever reason I'm not validated they come through and they lock all ride up they they put them in in a a palm hall and then across from Palm Hall they're in Cypress and I can still go back and talk to them so I'm Running everything out there kitties and all that reassign keys well the heads decide that we're not out there

no more they want the keys so they get Junior to come talk to me cuz Junior was my C and we were close and all of that and he sits down and I'm sitting in the dorm in the Drone but they had jumped the gun they had validated these day these dudes early and they weren't supposed to lock them Up yet so they had to let them all back out the next week Junior's sitting there and he's telling me well you know what Ronnie uh nobody's out here no more I told me look if I'm

out here the ride's out here the whole car is out here so if there's one of us we're all out here and I'm looking over his shoulder and here comes gangster Maurice and here comes Bam Bam and they're all lining up in the window cuz they're kicking them all out of the Hole right now nobody knew they were coming and they're just lining up and I tell Junior I said hey homie uh turn around because you got really really impeccable timing try to hit me for them keys and he turned around he seen all the

nlr in the window he goes man he goes they're going to try to hit me I told him no brother I'm going to I'm going to talk against it so we had a big meeting on the yard but what I didn't know is that Junior had been up and down The hallway talking about Nazi low riders and they all knew it so we were talking and uh I still tried not to get him hit so not only that they're taking one of my other old cies angel they're gonna have him hit Junior right so I

just go and the FEDS are filming this through the window in the library right they got it all on film with this whole meeting going on right so here's what I did I said look man I said what facility this is that was in Chino The Guidance Center real political place because everybody comes in on violations we're in that Circle so I tell them like this I got one s going to hit another s over all of this stuff right here and uh I did like this I said I'm done with this like that on

the thing I just to walk away right and uh I was talking against the hit I said I don't want to be here when it happens I don't want to be I don't want to be near it they're two sellies you know so maybe that was the Start of my feelings I don't know right so Junior's on the yard and uh Angel's cold tring him ready to cut him and I go over the baseball diamond and I sit down what does Junior do he comes over and sits down right next to me it puts him

in the perfect position to get hit and Angel goes over and whoop Cuts him Cuts him pretty good in the throat when he does it Junior gets up and he goes That's a good one he goes oh man he goes huh that's a good one and he Started to get on Angel and right then all the inar just got on it is what it is they finish him no he didn't get killed um he probably wish he would have now it's so crazy how deep the prison politics are in California it's it's like government literally

it's like government yes um now now you're in you got got a 12 and a half to do in the feds 85% now no parole no parole 85% ugly so you're now in your 30s and You've been putting in work oh no I'm older than that um you're almost 40 you're almost 40 yeah you're born in the early 60s so you're now an OG uh and you're known so what position do you take is is the nlr now in the feds where at every facility you go to or how does that work the nlr is

there um um and uh now though I'm I'm I'm looking at six looking well I'm looking at nlr becoming AB looking at being a part of both leaz on I'm looking at all Of that so I'm doing the time there when I say six this later happened too there's six letters that get involved here later on that what is that what do you mean by that well there's two different tips nlr split nlr and then that that ran with the ab and then the other half was nlr FTB which was the brand you had six

letters there so you know some guys were Sixers they were fighting them which is a fight you couldn't win even though they were so Few they could have been overwhelmed but just by numbers but they weren't going to get out thought not with what the nlr was dealing with and then they also got Pina involved and it just it just if the whes could stay United they could they could have a stronghold like other like other tips and stuff other races you know but we're so busy trying to survive and then survive our own politics

that it's just crazy it's it's crazy California prison System's crazy so but when you're in the feds I'm asking who did you decide to where did you end up going oh I was okay so at Lewisburg so Ziggy ab and Bobby Ray Shields AB right they're both putting people in we're putting work in we're getting put up for the brown we're getting put in okay Boulder head put a rock on his neck um I could got the rock I was in we're all in but then it turned out that Ziggy was working with the feds

okay and I had tattooed nothing on me at This point but I had put the work in I'd got blessed everything's happened they put a freeze on it they said oh hold on anybody that Ziggy had anything to do with is on hold now this is that out that I was telling you about that you don't really often get a chance to step back okay but when that happened me Steve early from uh Texas uh it's the uh Syndicate no no no one of the Texas gangs one of the Texas white Gangs but see he

he steep back too me and him were talking just like like this and I'm saying well you know what nobody dies of old age everybody's got they're getting killed and not by other people the guy that's killing them they call their brother right you know I'm telling them hey I wish I and Goose I wish I wish i' never got mixed up in any of that right there cuz it's just really a bad tip and uh no retirement for and so I Ste back you know and I told everybody Hey look you know I put

the work in and that's done but this whole putting me on hold after I've already been blessed and everything I'm not cool with it I'm just stepping back and that was cool because they were they were they were removing everybody that Ziggy had a part with because here's the thing right say Ziggy put in five dudes him and Bobby Ray Bobby Ray don't know what's going on with Ziggy but say they put in five dudes one Ziggy's working with the feds Which one of them are working with the feds yeah you wait till it's too

late to find out their mindset is no they ended up even though they pulled everybody's rock at the time they ended up backing up and they gave uh ghost they gave uh they gave Boulder head a couple of the dudes that they they reinstated on everything right when they everything played out which is a smart move to do because you just can't figure out who's the one or you know what everybody Ste Back so but then also it's when I made my spart choice right there that's when whole change started to happen Okay so and

that's when you took a step back from gang life yeah kind of okay because then things started going with the whole nlr war and all of that like Kansas I made all of the Kansas odinist I flip them all into nlr because when they took me from lenworth they took me to the county jail I get to the county jail hold can you Explain that a little more I didn't really understand that's what I'm going to do I get to the county jail and when I go in there some Crips from California they're robbing these

white dudes when they go to store and there's no real gang in in uh um Kansas in the P prison system the white gang is the uh is the uh odinist so it's a gang and their religion so I tell one of the odinist dudes I said hey Homie can you uh have all the white dudes come in here after lunch your cell he had a bigger cell they all come in there and I tell them hey look here's the deal if we stand up with these dudes right here this is going to stop they're

not going to want to get locked down all the time couple of us might take weapons one or two times it's all going to stop I know and I'm telling you this how it is so if you tell me you'll step up and fight and Take the whooping I'll go out there and serve notice to them right now and they all were like yeah yeah whether they would or not who knows I just went up to the cribs on from California I told me here's what it is you take another anything from another white dude

going to store it's a riot hm we're getting it period and you may win doesn't matter to us we're going to do it every time first time you take something so every time that happens we're going to have a riot We're going on lockdown so whatever else you got going is going no more they go Ronnie we were just doing it because they were letting us so it put a stop to it so the Odin came to me and they said hey Ronnie look we want to separate our religion from a gang you know we

we're wondering about this nlr I told them well separate come nlr for Kansas I go okay so what's the Bylaws I go that's the beauty of nlr make it up as you go along right and uh so when I left there I had flipped that whole little get down right there in Kansas and then they flew me back to Rialto wow so you were you did how much time off the feds I did all of it you did all 12 and a half yeah what was uh how many penitentiaries were you in I was in

in that stretch I was in VI Ville USP Coleman 1 Hazelton Mcquery um just about all of them Lewisburg I was in just about all the all the what was the worst of the USPS they're all they're all okay so I can tell you stories from each and every one of them that like in if you go to Terra hope right um these two two aring Nations guys they're running around and uh uh Timmy and Jeremy they're telling guys they don't want to be there you need to get off the yard you don't get off

the yard will cut your head off and They got box cutters right so dudes are getting off the yard Jesus I guess the cops are going to come get him that night but they didn't go get him then so the last guy right before lockdown they said if you're still here after count we cut your head off after count the dude was still there so Jeremy would get on him it was right out some so he'd get on him he'd start cutting him with that box cutter and the cop would tackle him bam and as

soon as he tackled ter Jerry Timmy get up and get to whacking him and until they took the head all the way off you know and that happened right in front of your cell yeah yeah I watched him cut that guys at first it was a big blood curling screen one of the black guys goes please don't do that please stop oh my God and uh they just took his head off you know again it was a black guy that killed or another white guy no it was another white guy and that's that seems to

be most of the violence in Federal prison it's it's amongst the races amongst the races themselves yeah they're they're regulating their own conditioning their own you know it's better like this like say you screwed up with the Mexicans right rather than the Mexicans just going and getting on you because if I see a white guy getting jumped by so many Mexicans I'm jumping in so other white guys so now it's a riot so if you come to me and this guy's and you got Faith that if you come to me with what this guy did

and I weigh it all out and he needs to be regulated disciplined stabbed whatever needs to happen you have faith that I'm going to make that happen I'm going to make that call we're going to do it ourselves you don't have to that keeps because if it's not involved so when you start involving different races against each other you start having lockdowns Drug Money starts slowing down the whole deal okay um were You well tell us about that were you involved in drug trafficking while you were doing your federal stretch so yeah uh the whole

stretch every the whole thing and when I when I left the feds I went to the state I was in Lancaster right I went back to Lancaster so I'm a seart and uh I got a phone in my cell I start googling Lancaster prison I look at it my Sy Works in Pia and he tells me man he goes Pia we're soap we make the chemicals when you go out the pack when I go there we got he's telling me about how he works out right they got this little workout area in between all these

big barrels blue barrels right blue barrels he goes yeah they're bright blue well okay I can Google that and I'm listening and all I'm thinking is this spot they got hidden in the middle of these barrels sounds pretty good for a drone now look on you can see out my window there's two big water tanks so at night I take Google Earth and I get a Look at Lancaster I get a look at Pia I get a look at the blue barrels the and call somebody up set my thing up he sits between the two

big water tanks and he flies in whatever I wanted but I was mad at the time I was mad because the blacks were selling heroin to the whites that were strung out and they were just giving them little smears and just taking all their money yeah so you know what I brought in weed H because I wanted to get all that money back from The blacks right cuz they smoke weed in there they love the weed so I and I wouldn't give no bulk deals and I would never flood the yard and I would break

it out on visiting days so it looked like it came in that way and I would just and I could have got anything I wanted cuz what would happen is it the Drone would drop night in the spot my how much how much weed would they drop like if I wanted to bring in a pound for two weeks I bring in a pound it'd be Gone in s to yards and a pound of weed yeah in a prison oh yeah yeah yeah yeah it go and it' be gone it'd be gone with me chipping it

off like to the an the mount I'm not selling you're not going to come buy 25 caps at a discount for me no you just come by the Caps I send it over to other yards so and how many people does it take to help you to move a pound in prison because you can't keep any that on you it's yeah you got people in every building you send it over Because myi worked in Pia that's where he would get it and I had the painter that would go to all the yards right the painter

would he would go and he would get it from my sell and he had a false bottom on his cart so he could pass right through the cop station come to my cell paint drop everything off go to the other yard paint drop everything off so I had that going on matter fact I got it in my my wallet my job was the secretary for the the men advisory councel which Me I could walk everywhere all I had to do is yell out my door to the cop hey open the door he'd open the door

my office was up there by the office I was to go between for the cops when there was issues and and and the convicts wow you know so I was the secretary for the IAC so I could just walk anywhere I wanted you're hiding in plain sight in plain sight and moving major dope right there I just I was getting all the money back how are you how are you getting Paid because this is State Prison how how do they I know in the feds they pay with stamps how do they pay in so yeah

the feds are with stamps and there's a lot bigger picture too when you start messing with the mob in the in the feds because they're controlling economies just like the Jewish Bankers would you know with stamps I've watched him pull stamps off of a yard just by controlling the economy make the price go up and stay stay stable we just had a guy L Zisin he was a Jewish ecstasy Kingpin he did that at uh well at all the USPS he went to he would buy up all the stamps to regulate the price and regulate

the price in the economy yeah see all that going on so uh um in Lancaster so you're you're going to pay it doesn't you're going to do bank to bank you can have people picking up money if it's large amounts you can have it sent to your books and funneled that way you can do PayPal you can do there's just a million Ways get money yeah okay so you weren't actually you didn't have cash on you no no no no no I have my phones and I end up leaving that phone with my S so

this is where I met my wife this is where things start to change okay um they get this new law it's called the big six rolling which means that any point you got for violence on on another number they couldn't use against you well I had thousands of points for all the stabbings and all that stuff from my History that all had to come off I didn't know about this I get called to the counselor's office and he tells me Ronnie you're uh you're level two now I told what do you mean he goes yeah

big six rolling all these points came off handed me the paperwork he goes you go into classification next week we're going to send you to a three yard in Ironwood first and let you step down because we're just going to jump you to a two yard so you're going to get Overridden there and then you'll go to a two I tell him M I said put them back on he goes what so I got all this going on I said put my points back on man I'm not trying to go nowhere right yeah he goes

no it doesn't work that way we have to so but ironically the next drone I was having landed my partner wrecked it in the fence that's why I say that all this is known it's all old hat wow can you tell us a little bit more about the big six this is a California ruling yeah What it was was that say you had a history on old numbers you had stabbed people done all this violence cop stabbings and all of that there were certain amount of points you get for each one of those right to

where guys would get a new case and they'd go back and they end up with thousands of points right because of stuff not now but then that happened in the prison system okay everybody was just getting maxed out for Thousand Years now they're all up on These with all these points and stuff so the big six said that no longer could they use those those old number stabbings and violence and all that to put points on your new your new case you think that was cuz the the max level yards the four yards are just

getting overcrowded or what do you think the reason behind that was they're trying to switch to give guys a chance to work their way out to me I think this period I'm not a I'm not a fan of prison I'm Not but you know what it's needed Society needs prisons Society needs cops Society needs all these things you don't have a society without them law you have to have it um and you may be in the game going yeah I don't need no stinking comps badges we don't need no stinking badges you may be doing

all that right you're a liar MH cuz you know and I know that the minute you leave you got a mom you got kids and the only thing really protect protecting your family from Having some animals running in there them and doing what they do is sometimes in cops you know you got family members that you know I got an aunt that I know in a minute if they somebody did something wrong she would call them and you know what nobody holds that against her because that's who she is right so Society needs that and

we need to quit thinking that we're not a part of society that we have this separate Society but so yeah so I'm I believe in All of that I'm not a fan of the police when they come to get me right but when they're stopping something from happening to my daughter my mother or somebody like that you know what I'm their biggest cheerleader stop it from happening so my thing is this though I think every sentence should just be this bam as long as it takes oh you did this bam as long as it takes

as long as it takes for you to come back to me and show me that you're Somebody different if that takes you a year it's on you that takes you 10 years it's on you but I'm sentenc you to as long as it takes be somebody productive and different and that's just what I believe well this uh six law it's or you know ruling it seemed to work for you yeah it set me on and that's weird set you on a course yeah it did and this is when I meet Chris okay Chris Curtis has

been on this show yeah he's he's part of my me and him got the nonprofit now and He does Orange County uh the dark side at risk youth because I started the recidivism thing you know the veterans life skills program universal life skills program uh the the star speaking truth about recidivism because the truth is it doesn't have to be like it is that's the truth right truth is if you start putting the right stuff in play in prisons you can change people and they won't come back and I'm living proof of it right and

so is Chris so but Chris is Doing at risk youth you know what the best way to stop somebody from coming back to prison is from recidivism never start never start you get them at a young enough age to where they don't go to prison in the first place you don't have that reism so I want to hit it from all angles um well let's talk about the this course now so you you don't want to get classed down cuz you got such a good thing with the drones and the weed right uh but how

do you they force you to go There that's the one thing they do they will not let you stay in prison as much as it seems like they want to keep you there yeah when it's your time to go they kick you out they kick you out so I get shipped to uh Ironwood okay I get to Ironwood and I ain't there long a couple days what happens is this Mexican Mafia dude boxer he's there all right and he to told on a lot of people and he knows me knows who I am and I

go to a medical one day and I'm standing there it's like The next day or two days after I got there and I'm standing medical and there's boxer standing right there he tells me Ronnie what's up I tell what's up box tell look homie I your thing is your thing your people's your people and I'm cool I'm not here for that he go yeah okay bam he left the next morning they came told me pack your put me on a van transfer me to High Desert that quick right but then I had already stepped back

I'm trying to leave the Gangs alone I'm trying to trying to get out I want to get out there's got to be a way even though I got all this time left I get to High Desert right he had me moved so now I'm at High Desert I'm on the yard Chris Curtis is there and he's the uh maade advisory Council he's the Mac he's the one with the the representative for the whites but he's not he's working out he's not you know I'm kind of gonna I'm kind of Gonna Bump him for this you

know And uh what I do is I try a little manipulation move and I go around and I get all the white signatures that could vote him out that I could get and I get enough to at least be able to hold an election to do it and then I don't go to the people to have that done I just go to him and I say look homie I got all these signatures so we can have a vote to get you removed or you could just step back it's not personal you know don't take it

personal he's like kind of Am sure sure it does seem a little personal why were you trying to have him removed cuz I wanted to spot what did his spot I didn't know him at the time you know and uh you could run around and do things and I was going to push back on the cops and try to get Privileges and do things that Chris couldn't do as a lifer because he had to go to board and you know and Chris Chris tells me you know and I didn't know how he was gonna where

he was going to go with this At the time because he tells me I kind of am taking it personal you know I'm thinking oh wow here we go you know you're not a little dude I'm thinking okay we're going to have to go with this then Co hits Co hits we end up in a unit together no Mac reps are existing anymore this and that and they have an election okay so I won the election he didn't run but by this time I'm standing at the door and me and him were talking and we're

talking about what we really Want to do you know talking about getting out talking about doing the right thing and I'm telling him yeah he goes no I know it wasn't personal now he knows it's not now he knows I just want to I want to push the administration to do the right thing so he's comfortable and cool with it and uh besides that it's a advantage to have and I didn't play that card because of this Advantage I really didn't think of it until recently in hindsight I put Chris in a Position that in

order to do something and act on the way he was feeling he had to give up his chance to go home you know which is up you know and uh what year is this by the way this is in whenever covid first hit okay oh obviously 2020 so you're on a 20 I just want to remind people you're now serving a 28-year stretch consecutive yeah in 2020 and I still had a lot left right you you what did you think at this point did you expect to die in there did you Expect to get out

an old feeble man like what what were you trying to accomplish besides just living a more chill life that didn't involve the gang banging I had thought about both of those guy an old man in prison um just just both I just didn't think I was getting out and if I did get out I wasn't going to be in no condition to to live life you know what was the point at that point just keep me in but I hadm the wife I have now okay and she was like Dr how' you Meet her I

I met we okay so I've known her my whole life all right off and on been together and she's went her way and I've went mine and we've done things and um we find our way back to each other and I up a lot she didn't you know she she does good so me and her connect again we reconnect and she's not about the nonsense she's like this hey I don't mind I'll take care of you I'll do all of that while you're in here you won't do without the things that you have now You'll

still have but you don't get to land drones you don't get to stab people you don't get to do anything that isn't the next right thing that's the thing that's what I'm asking you to do so you wanna you want to be with me then this is how we're going to do it said okay so before I do anything I asked myself is this the next right thing and if it ain't with new thinking not with criminal thinking because you can justify just about Anything if you want to with new thinking and if it ain't

the next right thing I don't do it and so I get transferred out of high desert now to solidad level 2 CTF North they it's a three y they turned into a level two and I'm there and I start writing programs I write the veterans life skills program I write all this stuff and there's a lot of child molesters on this yard that I don't know about until in Hind cting at the end but there was this one who had The run-of the yard with all the staff the Free People this Jenny nestler comes in

under a program she was like she's with these child molesters backing them up you know and she with this Mark um Mark Wade did some crap in Riverside to some kids it was a sick thing I find out in hindsight after I write all my programs and I do all this all these child molesters that nobody knows are with this Jenny nestler they come together and and Ron self does the Veteran healing veterans and he got out of San Quinton they come together and I watch them try to take his program from him I watch

them lie when I know they're lying and say sexual harassment with Jenny and do all of this stuff and I told him look KRON I know I think it's you write this program you build it and they try to take it from you I'm going to write a declaration for you that uh says straight out you didn't do any of this you know and I'll sign it and do it Under perjury well that week they send the dog woman samon to tell me uh don't write that CU if you do you're you're going to lose

your dog you're going to lose your programs you're not going to get out like you think you are and all of that it was it was A Veiled Threat she said she was just looking out for me maybe that too was probably a little bit of both um they're going after Self they're trying to take something that he built but this is a new me I'm doing the Next right thing so I asked my wife I'm like look it turns out all this is going on this Jenny nestler has opened the door for all these

sex offenders and child molesters I didn't even know about and she's like one of them and she's doing it and she's attacking people that aren't sex offenders I don't quite get it who is this woman she comes in doing groups and stuff and she was part of Ron self had hired her and she end up trying to take his program from her okay so She's like a an outside independent contractor independent cont she's out of the veterans transition or or BTC veterans transition center right there in uh uh byol okay and then and and what

does this have to do with sex offender she's trying to rehabilitate them or no no no I thought maybe it first whatever was going on but it didn't turn out that way she's there's some weird dynamic going On it was between her this Sergeant Dy who had died so when I start learning about all of this right I start bucking back on these dudes when I help Ron Jenny nestler turns against me she gets with them and they lie and say that uh I threatened staff but you know what it just so happened I was

keeping all this evidence the threats to be cool or this and that because I had a feeling something was going to happen so they Li and said that well when they said that They put me in the hole to investigate Here Comes Squad I got all this proof that I didn't say nothing that that I was getting set up and they wanted to take my book they wanted to take my programs and take over all of that pretty soon Squad comes back and tells me yeah you know we're going to let you out man cuz

so right on he said just keep doing the next right thing so they've been listening to my calls too so they knew Everything that was going on because they listened to all their phone calls all of it so they let me back out but you know what I don't get back out now these guys get wind that I'm getting back out one of them goes up and says that I hit him in the mouth one day outside of the uh the gym and uh seven Witnesses so they write me up again put me right back

in the hole now they're going to to transfer me so I get transferred I get to New fsam the Lieutenant comes in he looks at everything he goes this is he goes you can look at this and see he goes the only reason you're here is because it was easier to transfer one than seven he goes so I'm just dismiss this right up and everything and uh he dismissed everything and wrote it up in a way that it didn't hinder me getting out so I was already put up and waiting on court to resentence me

well the judge that resent can you tell us about that Why were you up for resentencing because they passed the law that if you were a veteran of the United States military and they and you're the veteran and they didn't take it into account when you were sentenced then they had to take you back to court and take it into account now okay but here's the thing that opens a Floodgate because these now when they do that they're resentencing you that means that every new law that's in play that says a prior right here has

to be Dismissed a gun enhancement has to be dismissed comes into play wow so you're watching people literally go from 30 years down to two wow you know what I mean Ronnie I think we can all say you served our country honorably yes let's go ahead let's keep saying that wow so this is really I mean this is like you got two wins right there with the six law and now with this sentencing law yep and I didn't stop I get the F I'm trying to put my programs in play there I wrote The book

the encyclop Encyclopedia of self-help and it's like 10 books in one starts with denial management and all the stuff I learned along the way I went to college kept 4.0 on taking psychology and everything so the book the book is off the hook it gets you there and it gets you there and you know that I don't just know how to deal with something from behind the behind the desk I know from living it have the experience so the book's great and what my thing is This is dudes that are in prison you see about

these programs not everybody gets a shot at them programs they're limited space so if you got a homie and you can homie up and get in there then you then you can do the stuff it takes to go home but if you don't guess what sorry about your bad luck do the time so is the uh are these programs like do you have to go get them certified by the prison and and saying like Okay if you complete this this can be used in front of the Parole board as U you know it can be

used as a factor in uh granting you parole by the board is that it my book my book is designed to be written in you know it's on Amazon when I tell people don't go to Amazon you can go on my website and you can get the address you can order it I Amazon wants 80 $85 for it I let it go for 50 and those books I just send them in like if I get a th000 books I'll bring them to a prison yard to W approval hand them all out now What's the beauty

of these books is this and I tell people if you got a certificate I don't know what you did to get it whether it came out of your wallet if you forged it in some office somewhere if you earned it I don't know if you really changed okay so if I'm looking at say my book and you sent the board you s I'm the board member you sent me that book with a certificate and I open up anger management guess what I get to read your process get to read What it was like when you

got mad I got to I get to read how let's just use this as an example like say your count to 10 I got to read how you use your count to 10 to calm down to not respond the way you used to so now I'm a board member with all these certificates and I get the inside knowledge of what was going on in your head while you were making the change wow and I can look at you I can really get in your head and I know exactly how you got these certificates Now because

I'm looking at the way you earned them right so it really helps people go home wow and the thing is this you send them they say people were saying all the time well board already has their mind made up before they get in there and I'm telling them well then that means you back up the clock get them what they need when they're making the decision don't wait till the last minute to try to help them decide get this book to them prior to you going to Board and let it make the difference then you

want to make the difference when the difference counts yeah and it's at that point how how far ahead can an inmate send the board all of this stuff they uh they get attorneys so they send them to their attorneys and they can get in there you know so it's easy to get in there and in me I sent all my stuff to court okay I had thousands of pages of everything certificates college and everything I had the books that I wrote The programs uh letters from people saying that you know what they knew I was

ready and I sent them in inmates that have changed because of my program that got out and are successful and I sent that to the judge well I had a judge that's hard-nosed he's the hammer what they call him and he don't believe in none of these new laws the hell with that and I had a DA that was the same because I had a gang charge at every one of my charges the da always bucked me Getting out early or anything and uh the judge was like this he was like man he goes I

look at all this and I don't like these new laws and I'm not going to sentence you under him there's only one that I have to follow the rest of it I'm not going to we're going to fight this all the way he goes but if not you who you know he goes I can't justify this so here's what I'm going to do I'm going to take this amount off for one of the new laws that an enhancement Or something had to come off there was no way around it because I'm taking that off how

much time was that I can't recall I know that it brought the let's see so I'm at like 44 years it brings it down to 22e sentence so they took off uh 22 years 22 years of what came off on it so but that was here's how it worked he took that time off and then that sentenced me to 22 years but he said and here's what I'm going to do I'm going to take that Federal time that you didn't Get credit for and I'm going to run it concurrent which gives you credit for all

that time which means that when everything's combined and you add the good time you end up with 27 years on a 22-year sentence have a good day don't let me down so what does that mean that means that I had a 22-year sentence I had credit for 27 years done and I was getting out and all five yeah the negative five ate up the parole so I had No paper oh my God that's unbelievable folks that is Penitentiary math that is Crim that's the criminal justice system it's they throw around years of your life like

it's a math problem yep and a funny story on the last thing that happened I'm in there cdcr up the mathematics on my time and tells me now you still owe us six years I'm going what how do you sent 22 you got 27 credit and I owe you six I said that's that's fuzzy Math my wife's freaking out I tell her look I got a couple of Sacramento people's emails and I notice a pattern in these emails they do them a certain way I said can you get and it's using their name I said

can you get me the name of everybody that works in Sacramento the director Corrections on down she goes I'll I'll see now I'm on the tablet so she gets them all she sends them to me and I start crunching the names and putting together these Emails I tell her here try this one this one I randomly pick three and tell me if they go through and they did so we blanket bombed you know all of Sacramento tell them you're going to get sued if I do a day extra this is what's going on so that

next day they were all over it but they had one interest who gave me everybody's email yeah I I cracked that little code nobody gave them to me I built them put them together and uh so they weren't letting Name the the aw for the warden the associate Warden calls my wife and says look it looks funny I'm looking at it looks screwed up he goes look I'm going to have him out of here Monday morning so just come come on down so she's in the parking lot new fulam on Monday morning they don't let

me out they're still doing Fuzzy Math now I only owe them four years or three years nightmare this is the inmates worst nightmare yes so I go to the cop I tell them I'm on a Hunger strike you know bottom line I'm not eatting I'm not drinking he goes well I have to come take your food I said come take it eat it I don't care what you do with it I'm on a hunger strike then my wife calls the warden and tells the warden yeah I'm getting ready to contact the news and he's like

why is that she goes well my husband's in the prison right now on a hunger strike and I'm out here with my dog and we're both on hunger strikes I asked a guy I asked A hardened lifer about that or he was life on the installment plan like what if you're what if you're allowed to get out and they just don't let you out this happens in dictatorships you know the Soviet Union famously you'd be in the goog right Stalin's goog and you do your 10 years at hard labor and then they'd say well now

you have another 10 so these kind of nightmares even in democracies but he said what you do is you get a hold of the feds and they send The marshals down that can happen if it goes that far I went on the hunger strike my wife went on the hunger strike in the in the in the parking lot the aw came out and he goes please don't call the news right and it was a lieutenant that deals with uh Communications with Society or whatever m don't call the news we're looking into this it's still up

we know it is just hold on don't go nowhere don't call the news give me your word on that and tell your husband to Eat something she goes all right man how about you eat a let me out you exactly so and it's going through my mind and one more thing a lot of guys at that point can be so frustrated they do something that justifies what the cdcr is doing to them that's right yeah now who's making those decisions who are the people like doing the math trying to keep you in there who are

those bureaucrats in the uh Department of Corrections they have a Time computation People and apparently not too bright sure they're crunching numbers and I call it Fuzzy Math so here's the way it worked they went from the six years down to the four years down to the three years then at 5:30 that night they let me out they said but you still got parole so I wrote this appeal up to 602 when I walked into the Riverside parole office I hand it to my PL officer I said look I'm appealing this whole thing right here

yeah so he faxes it over to The main people in that area and then uh he goes you still got a report though I'm living in Idaho under the radar I ain't telling him I'm just driving back and Reporting because that's where I got to live so I go back to report and he comes out he goes I got some good news for you I what's that he goes you're discharged you don't need to be here wow cool but man they fought me on that the whole way you can't be right you're an inmate you're

a convict how could you do Math better than us yeah and you have to fight for yourself and you have to yeah keep your cool yep yeah you got to not panic wow that's unbelievable man and now I'm out paying it for my thing is this right I'm not going to lose on this I right now me and Chris are both in this nonprofit star22 3.org it's got everything on there everything that's been put into it has come out of our pocket mainly mine a pocket of a guy that's unemployed my wife Bank rolls a

Lot of it um we're not getting donations people aren't donating it's just whatever's happening we're kind of blackballed in the prison where they build a wall around getting grants the ones that are established and you have to go through that but I spent my life tearing down walls I'm not going to quit and give up can you explain to us exactly what this nonprofit does for the inmates yeah I uh okay I have the book I gave the Encyclopedia self-help book profits and everything 100% to the nonprofit I just have to generate sales um because

it's published self-published I don't have anybody to market for me or nothing or to get it out there to do and it's really a prison book so how you going to Market that um so I got to work on donations I get the donations I buy the books I bring them to the yards I hand them out to these guys a lot of guys can't afford them wow they can't afford The program so I hand them out um Chris and I also have the uh universal life skills program it's in solid dead North right now

it's in Stockton medical facility and I'm getting ready to open it up at the women's prison in in Chowchilla um or chucka Wala whichever one I'm going with Ron s for the veterans Jing veterans we're getting ready to open it up I have the top dog pets for vets so the guy in Vegas uh diam black blue diamond or black diamond Diamond uh uh kennels is getting ready he's I got the dog coming from him and I mean this is a champion bloodline dog so some of these it's it's the vets that are Mobility impaired

that we get these two so we'll have them trained in prison they'll come out to them and they'll have a they'll have a pure bread Champion bread bloodline dog oh that's great so you have the people you have the inmates working with these dogs training them that that helps their Programs yes and then you you donate them to vets yes and well it's a it's a an order the Vets are first Mobility impaired First Responders MH uh ambulance fire department police whatever they're they're next uh general public and then if none of them get one

of these dogs then the inmate that trained it has an option yeah in the family of that inmate so yeah it goes down that step and then uh there's that and then there's Chris's does the Orange County the dark side so we take the encyclopedia self out Orange County the dark side both of those go into the prison to where these guys can can read Chris's story they're relating to what's going on that you know this guy's been there and done that me and him both were in there thinking we were never getting out yeah

never say never you know especially not now and I know guys that are locked up watch this show it's like you know if there's a time to clean your Act up and really even if you got decades to do I mean look at all these people we've talked to that were doing life literally had life without parole or three strikes and they got out y they got out like really early I want people to change too not just get out the old me would have just wanted everybody out throw the gates open I don't care

if you're black white Mexican Chinese in between got part doberman pincher I don't care none of That matters to me anymore I'm completely blind to all of it I want to help you get out I want to help you change I want to help you get out and be the guy you can be you know and look I can reach into my pocket right now I've been out six months yeah okay and there's ways I don't want to really put my name on it all but there's ways to get credit cards on and I gotta

pay these things so I don't have the money to I'm limited but my credit sitting at 780 right now and I can get all of these they give them to me I don't use them I sure love having them it feels good you know what I mean it feels good to know that if I ever had to and I was in trouble I could get in here coming down today I used a little bit on the credit cards I'm going to have to do some creative finances to pay for it CU I wanted to buy

the homeless that I know in California there's a lot of them and there's a lot of people that are on Yards with I bought them tents eight-man tents to give out and uh other stuff to give out so I put it on some of these credit cards and whatever happens happens you know I mean if I go down I'm G to go down doing a good thing but people may be watching this saying well why should I donate to a bunch of convicts and prisoners and I was a victim of a crime well guess what

people go back to prison it means they created another Victim of another crime mhm so you don't have to do anything for convicts or you don't have to do anything for any of that if you don't want to but you know what you can do it for the victims the ones that haven't been made victims yet right do it for them and then you got the guys that are out there that are watching this they're in the game they're doing this or that well you know what do this for you donate Pay It Forward because

you want my programs in There because when you're trying to get out early it's going to be me that's helping you that's right MH do you think you've helped so far in four years four and a half years it's hard to put number on it uh how many books have you given out than people that have that's a better question I've bought all the books myself so I've given out about 500 but it's all come out of me in my wife's pocket wow uh I've had one $50 donation but I haven't been on any shows

with any Real big forums I've been cutting my teeth on the small stuff yeah and they love it it's good they like you know people like I mean they like the story of Nino oh one more thing cuz this is interesting this is going to probably I'll probably put this in my next book bino thing but I then get a friend that tells me hey Ronnie we can go to Aruba and I I I can get Coke pretty cheap there and I was just watching a thing on 2020 about Aruba and how coke is there

And how the whole island was floated on cocaine with the the peruvians and the Columbians and he's hooked in with the Colombians so we get there got our old ladies with us about a couple hundred thousand dollars right we want 50 keys of coke they're 2,000 a piece so uh we're sitting in the diva Village waiting like we're on vacation we got all this money um right right there on the beach and they're not showing up and finally I just call the Colombians I tell them I get here's where my mouth gets me in trouble

again just like in the feds I tell them you Colombia your mama all that if you don't like it I'm in this room at the diva Village just come get some hang up the phone I look at my friend I tell them it's probably a mistake but uh give the money to the old ladies and give the give them a phone come take off down the beach if uh if I don't call go ahead and take a phone a plane home I'm not going To call um because it's over so we're watching blow on the

TV dude goes to Mexico he don't know nobody but he finds his dude with weed and he ends up on a mountain of it next thing you know he's with Pablo Escobar he don't know anybody he's just shaking hands asking people can I get this you know where I can get that I cut TV off I tell my friend I said hey Al we don't need to deal with the Colombians 60 minutes just said our 2020 just said the whole island is built On cocaine you see he just went and started shaking hands let's pull

a blow you go what do you mean just ask around let's just go ask all right so uh we had some ma Tins in there too we went and bought those you can get anything you want in Aruba right in the back streets so we're walking I got a guy in a Panama Hat we're asking people you know where we can get 50 Keys we get 50 keys we're just asking cats and the guy in a pan Hat's following me and I'm thinking man This is probably interpool right here and we already we've cut our

throats and who cares at this point I'm so tired of this old thing I tell my friend go get me an outfit and get me some dope off the street some coke if I'm going to jail I'm going high so he gets all that bam when I go in the bathroom of the bar here comes old pan all I'm ready to slam this dop and I tell him look I'll go with you no problem but I'm doing this he tells me no no no goes what do you Need goes go ahead kind of wants you

to see me do it right so I do it he goes what do you need I tell him 50 ke please CU I can help you gives me a card for somebody at a casino tells me go over there give this to him so I do dude takes me in the back room gives me a blackjack dealer has me and my partner playing Blackjack while we're waiting on him dude comes back the casino guys and says go go to the store so we're in the Jeep get the money we go to the store And here

homeboy comes Bo little Panama Hat guy and he's got all these motorcycles with these long rear ends drag bike type stuff they're all going around him right I'm going yeah look at his crew man they're everywhere they pull us out they take us into this this trees that went in a circle and inside the trees two houses they pull us in there and you got dudes right there with the bench and he's got a Kia Coke up there and Kia Coke it stamped it's got a Pee with a circle around it you know and he

cuts it open bam and I told him hold on I get that outfit a little bit of water I slam it it's pure Coke we're getting him a 2,000 a key okay that's almost unheard of and I tell him well look say I get to 200 300 400 Keys man uh can you guys handle that and he walks me to the second house it's hollowed out it's nothing but Coke wow Florida ceiling boom boom I'm like how in the hell does this happen only on TV right Right but now I'm stuck it's a thing so

I said okay so we'll see you in Vegas he goes what do you mean I said the coke right the Columbians were going to get it over there for us he goes oh no he goes you get up to 400 Keys we'll get it over there for you but this is on you he goes but I can help you m M calls the head of airport security so this guy comes down he's going to give us these suitcases all Right so they're they got little bottoms you put everything in hold six keys in there and

we get everything hooked up 50 keys of coke on all these suitcases but we just give them to him pay him and he puts them on it because you go through customs in Aruba you don't go in it in the US so you go through US Customs in Aruba once you're through customs you get off the plane in Vegas you just walk down and get your luggage wow so he's airport security my luggage going Through customs it's going right on the plane I'm going wow I just fell into all this I pull a blow right

and we go back and we turn the 50 Keys into 100 keys and sell it for 19,000 a key wow paying 2,000 $1.9 million a lot yeah I didn't even it got so crazy it was like blow I was this during your meth run yeah it was during everything Ronnie this was a great story to tell in the middle of the episode not at the end we're trying to plug donations for prison reform but we Will talk about that on the patri we're going to get more into the grimy stuff we're going to switch over

to patreon but for anybody like that just to sum up what you guys are doing for inmates you've created these self-help encyclopedias in which the inmates fill out these are large books these are like training courses basically that they have to do the homework on fill out and it's helping inmates who then present that to the parole boards for early Release yeah it's not just helping them for early release it's helping them become better people I has the only gun I went at gun when I went to college right so I'm taking the psychological courses

I'm taking psychology I'm doing everything in college doing pretty good at 4.0 and and I'm doing that and I'm I'm looking at this gun Rehabilitation thing because guns become an addiction you become addicted there's a power you have when you have a gun in your hand You can take a guy that's 4 foot three inches tall give him a gun and send him in a room he's God MH he walks in there he's controlling everything he's the guy no he's not small no not no more he's got a gun and you get addicted to what

the gun does for you so I went at guns in this course as if it was an addiction I want to deal with why you get a gun how you justify having to have one but why are you really getting one right what's causing you to want to feel like How can you how can you accomplish being that 10 foot tall guy without the gun right that's what we want to figure out figure out how we make you 10 foot tall without having to have a gun because there's a way to do that that's great

of course you and uh and so it's got the only gun course in it so the donations come in they buy these books we deliver them but they and then the books sell the profits that come on the books go right back to the program right because There's dogs there's there's I go in like I'm when I leave here I'll be going into solidad CTF prison to go in and see on one of my groups just started up there and I'll sit in on it and we'll we'll we'll do some things there right and so

I going back in I'm waiting trying to get a brown car which will allow me to go to all the prisons okay but this all takes money and I can't keep that's right pulling it out of my pocket so if you can donate $50 just $50 To your program this gets you a couple of books that are getting to inmates and covers your overhead yes and I'm certainly going to make a donation um I believe in it and I'm trying to pay it forward yeah exactly you know what I mean yeah and I want to

make people different people and I you know what the best way to rehabilitate is the best part of everything is helping somebody else and this is what I discovered when I help somebody become somebody Different somebody better and I see their daughter treat them better I see the way their family reacts to it that's the best highe I'll ever have I don't use drugs I was just at a house where people were using drugs I stepped out on the porch I didn't want to be a part of it and they all understood they said yeah

well you're getting a look at what you don't want to do anymore yeah I said yeah and you're getting a look at what you can do right you know so I mean I just you pay paying it forward is the universal law if you want to gain you must give yes it's all in equation to what you give and that's why I'm encouraging people if you don't know how to give that donating to this good cause is is one of those things it all starts with your mind it does your mindset right and here's the

thing too is that no donation is too small I if if you're a $5 donation guy or You Know What You Get Enough $5 donation guys I can help Quite a few people um so it's not too small no donations too small no donations too large you do what you could do you do what you're comfortable with and it's st202 3.org and star2 2023 2023 yeah and it's got addresses if you just want to mail you can mail a cash donation doesn't matter um if you do a big donation it's 100% tax deductible I put

the EIN number on your receipt and everything if you want a receipt you could ask me for it and call and ask for It and it's 100% it carry of your it's 100% tax deductible of 60% of your AGI just a gross income and that carries over for I think three years so you can break it up and you can get all that money back so you're choosing who your tax doll go to at that point not Uncle Sam that's right yeah exactly donate don't pay taxes donate to you know your cause star 20123 uh

link will be in the description Ronnie harell what a an amazing journey and uh congratulations My friend on sobriety on freedom on uh your new life thank you sir truly it is uh touching so we're going to talk more over on patreon patreon.com slthe connect show Ronnie harell once again uh thank you for uh [Music] one-of-a-kind life story that you've just shared with us I appreciate you man it's not over yet no damn right it Ain yeah take care all right bu [Music]