well stop me if you heard this before US president Donald Trump put Canada in his crosshairs today twice he made threats against his Northern Ally the cbc's Katie Simpson joins us now from Washington to talk about the latest from the Trump Administration so what what now Katie tell us more about the latest Canadian comments well he did it on both the world stage and he did it in the Oval Office uh for a domestic audience Donald Trump had a couple of public appearances today one speaking to the world economic forum in Davos and he talked
generally about protectionist American policies trying to push companies to build or create jobs and set up manufacturing plants in the United States uh or else look out tariffs are a Comon and he also singled out Canada talking about how again he said this before but he talked about how listen we don't need their cars we don't need their Lumber um he said this before and and he uh talked about Canada becoming the 51st state because he's frustrated about the trade imbalance he as he describes it uh there is a trade deficit or Canada there is
a trade deficit but Donald Trump often mischaracterizes it and it's largely because Canada sells more energy products into the United States um so uh that that was one thing that certainly got a lot of attention in Canada because of course uh Donald Trump has threatened or suggested floated the idea that he could impose 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico thinking about uh uh February 1st so that's just over a week from now and so any time Donald Trump talks about it everyone in Canada of course is looking for more information more insight or something official
uh and then he was uh in the Oval Office signing a series of executive orders today and this issue came up again listen to the question from the reporter um uh and and and hear what he had to say is February 1 the date for Chinese tariffs as well sir February 1 or was that just Mexico and Canada uh it's Mexico and Canada but we we're talking about China too look China is sending us tremendous amounts of bad drugs Fenton all really bad stuff most of it comes through Mexico we'll have to stop it with
tariffs so if Donald Trump is going to go ahead with this plan to impose these tariffs on Canada I'm told by a senior Canadian government official um that uh no one officially from the new Trump team has actually indicated Canada specifically that that's going to happen doesn't mean it won't happen want to be uh very very clear about that um uh um and uh what the official tells me is um sir we have there's a mouse David I know there's a mouse sorry it's all you're making me nervous now I'm looking lift your feet up
lift your feet up well here's the thing here's the thing I've been deployed I've covered War I'm not afraid of os but I doesn't mean I like it um doesn't mean you're not distracted by it either doesn't mean I don't like it um so anyway okay so all right so it doesn't mean will happen doesn't mean it won't happen doesn't mean it won't happen tariffs are this is like the most important thing right now for the Canadian economy so I don't want to be like distracted by a mouse while we're having conversation but um but
it doesn't mean it's not coming but in terms of has anyone from the Trump team officially said to Canada hey this is happening here it goes no that hasn't happened um Melanie Jolie the foreign affairs minister in Canada had a conversation with the Secretary of State Marco Rubio I'm told uh by a source that he didn't say that directly there Canada Contin to do Outreach to push the advocacy case uh but in terms of has anyone officially given Canada some sort of indication that okay yes this is actually a thing it hasn't happened yet but
again that doesn't mean it won't happen right is that the mouse behind I'm just kidding l so we know it's live TV Kitty okay look uh mice in your Newsroom terce on the table but an agenda that terrorists haven't come fast but a whole lot of stuff has come fast from Trump executive orders just at a flurry what what did he do today yeah so sort of the biggest headline in in the moment right now down here and it it changes hour by hour is that one of Donald Trump's new executive orders was challenged and
uh by a court um and and it has been temporarily paused Donald Trump signed an executive order on Monday uh to ban Birthright citizenship um and that is if you are born in the United States uh you are automatically granted American citizenship um he assigned an executive order to end that uh hunt like law long precedented policy and uh that has been challenged and a judge described it as unconstitutional so the legal battle there begins Donald Trump vowed to to push for that um we also saw Donald Trump sign some executive orders this afternoon in
the Oval Office that's where that uh clip came from uh he talked about trying to create an AI Hub in the United States sort of repealing some of the guard rails for the private sector that Joe Biden had created around artificial around artificial intelligence um he also um he back isn't it yeah the m is back sorry sorry you know it's okay all right um yes all right about one other thing one other thing I know that you're going to run out of time one other thing he signed an an executive order to declassify um
uh information around the assassinations of JFK RFK and MLK don't know how quickly we're going to get those details but that's something certainly who knows what's in there okay Katie if you want to get rid of the mouse put a 25% tariff on the Bice solves everything as Katie Simpson in Washington with her Mouse thanks thanks if he does move forward on tariffs on Canada as he has said whether it be on back on January 20th or uh on on February 1st or February 15th as a Valentine's Day present or on April 1st or whenever
he says he's going to do it as he keeps repeating two things will happen one Canada will have a strong robust response because we don't want this but we will respond if necessary and two prices for American consumers on just about everything will go up and we don't think he wants that okay the power panel is back to tackle this one we've got Jonathan kis James Moore Andrew Thompson and shachi curl Andrew uh let's get get you to start it off I mean Trump's math keeps kind of changing kind of his reasoning keeps changing but
the threat remains ever present even as the date changes what do you think I think we're actually getting more clarity on what he's driving towards if you read the executive order as it came out if you look back at the papers his economic advisers have been presenting there's two big issues that keep coming up one is a concern that the American dollar is overvalued and the Canadian dollar is undervalued and this is providing an unfair subsidy to Canadian business this isn't exactly new and I think we've known this for some time in Canada we worry
about the low dollar because it masks a productivity problem but that's a big piece that seems to be in his mind and it's fact if you look at the number why picked 25% well that's about the currency differential and so by putting the Tariff in you almost immediately move those two currencies back to to par and he talks about that in the 21st you know in his 51st state uh you know mumbo jumbo that he gets into that seems to be one of the big issues there's a lot in his uh uh you know in
his executive order talking about currency manipulation from other countries so that's one piece second is that you listen to that list he just read through this is the same list we've seen since what 1984 1988 uh that keeps coming up it's Lumber it's Dairy it's the energy sector there's also all the other protected pieces that have been built in there's the uh IP protection pieces around Pharmaceuticals that keep Canadian drugs cheaper than American drugs there's the protection of the uh um financial sector protection of the airlines all of these are areas that Americans want to
reopen so what he's pushing towards I think is trying to force NAFTA back to really the the very very start so the next agreement won't be an incremental one it'll be foundationally different that seems to me to be where he's going of course in a very trumpian way he's going to break a lot of stuff as he goes along but that seems to be kind of what he's pushing towards you know shachi he laid all this out today the world economic Forum in Davos which is going to fry the brains of a certain part of
his uh his base uh but that's also uh a part of the Trump world I mean what do you make of this like the the Doug Ford has been going to the US to say we need to deliver the message and be on Team Canada and now his response seems to be I'm going to have an early election I know you've talked about you're polling saying that in Ontario showing strength against Trump the appetite was strongest there um but does that does does calling an election show strength or opportunism what what do you make of
that response oh gosh GE I wonder David could be both you know you two things can be true at the same time without our heads exploding uh yes is Doug Ford taking a moment uh to absolutely exploit the two weeks he's had as Captain Canada sure he is uh was he going to you know was he was he going to be in a fairly strong situation uh 3 months from now 6 months from now my guess is probably but uh but he's decided to go now maybe not the most helpfull thing to be doing in
terms of that that Persona that he wants to project and also in terms of the work he needs to be doing South of the Border with those bilateral conversations that he is going to be having with the governors of of a number of states where he's got those relationships in order to say uh Hey senior Senators hey Governors Hey Big City Mayors uh maybe you have something to say about the appetite for oil and lumber and vehicles I couldn't help but be struck not only by the by the the the the cognitive dissonance of trump
being at Davos of all places but also you know here's here's a leader who likes to to Pepper his rhetoric with how he he doesn't like it when people sound whiny and and he doesn't like it when people sound complaining and there he is whining about you know unfairness and whining about how we're we're being so tough on him uh and I I I don't know maybe it's uh it's just you know it's it's nothing for nothing for policy but it was a moment where I'm like really now this is your rhetoric this is what
you're going to say uh and you know if somebody wants to get under his skin or needle him on that front uh they they may do well to point that out Jonathan maybe maybe I'm making the mistake of trying to do rational analysis of it right because uh the number on on the subsidy to Canada it seems to be a combination of the currency Gap that that Andrew talked about the trade deficit the lack of defense spending maybe that gets added in there the oil like it seems to be a bunch of things bundled together
but maybe that's just what I'm driving from like Daniel Smith talked to and says he wants to buy more of our oil you heard that clip we don't need your oil you know it it's he's a human ink plot at at different test at different times I mean different times it it could be within two different hours and either he's focused on different issues or he's obsessed with different issues and you know I listen to Andrew and it it really makes a lot of sense and there's a lot of thought that went into it but
I don't think that a lot of thought has necessarily gone into what Trump is thinking and uh you know if if you sit there and try to respond to some of it whether it was you this this whole thing in the last two days about Fentanyl and the millions of people crossing the border including from Canada if you sit there and you try to to respond to each of the complete misinformation or the lie or the inaccuracy however you want to describe it you'll drive yourself crazy but also it's not gonna that's not a solution
because you're not going to point out to him that he's wrong and the fact that he goes and speaks at Davos and there you would think there would be some cognitive dissonance but again that's that doesn't have an impact it's yes he he has a there's a combination here he really likes tariffs and he thinks they're a solution to many things including generating additional income for the government he also thinks that Canada has gotten the advantage over the US without being able to really articulate why so he pushes and pulls from different areas and then
points his finger and so the real question is and I think one of the reasons Doug Ford has come out looking good in the last month on a lot of this is he doesn't sit there answering each of the specific accusations he comes at it with a team Canada approach team Ontario approaches well he has the Hat he talks simply he doesn't get into the rhetoric and the real weeds of each thing he has focused on this is going to be bad for Americans from day one we heard prime minister Trudeau say that today I
haven't heard that enough of the message publicly that Canadians who've gone on even American TV they should be repeating that as arguments a b c and d this is going to cost Americans more so that's really I think where the win will come from is when Trump realizes that his base American consumers are going to land up paying more and they're going to be angry about it and then at some point when that damage is done maybe he'll back down you know James rebutting everything he says is a bit like that arguing on the internet
you know it's just going to keep going uh is the way it seems right but you know Andrew Fury was on the show yesterday he talked to new Gingrich at the inauguration and Gingrich the former speaker said to him tariffs are Revenue source for him that's how he sees it he wants it for money and like if that is the true motivation and not just like border measures that's a whole restructuring of the relationship and a much more difficult conversation to have rather than what can we do about fenel right when George W Bush was
president of the United States the US national debt was $1 trillion today the US economy adds $1 trillion in new debt every 100 days and president Trump right or wrong wrong but right or wrong in his mind doesn't matter uh views tariffs as a source of tax revenue that foreigners pay that is painless for the American economy and of course that's a narrative that needs to be flipped as others have have talked about you know it's important for public Pol public policy makers Premier the Govern of Canada all to to not not react to things
you know I I always tried when I was in cabinet to have a have a position which was always respond never react you you call it reaction but you respond right measure twice cut once be thoughtful and measured about these things and so when Donald Trump speaks on Fox or he does a press conference or a throwaway line across his desk as he's signing the executive orders or even in his remarks at the at the world economic Forum um just don't respond right away you know just take your take a measured approach and and have
your response in a day or two and just kind of transact that way don't take the bait don't get overheated don't get over over animated and it's going to be particularly problematic for Canada to do so when you've got uh seven people but you know two real Front Runners but three credible people running for the leadership of the Liberal Party who no matter what Justin Trudeau and the Prime Minister says they're going to have to try to hedge him and be a little bit more of this or a little bit hotter that or or I
would do it a little bit differently this way or that way and then of course you have Pier PV there's the leader of the opposition who's going to be doing his job as chastising and presenting an alternative and then you've got Doug Ford launching his campaign so you're going to have all these voices reacting to Donald Trump because they're in the rubric of election campaigns meanwhile Canada can have sort of a coherent rational respond not react approach and I think that puts Canada at a real disadvantage yeah and Andrew James advis arum respond not react
it's very similar to what we saw with Trudeau during Trump one right was the don't react to words react to actions right a different version of it it's harder for them to do that because when they tried to take that approach they were accused of saying nothing and a leadership vacuum and then the premier started filling it and now it's the leadership race and so this cacophony just that slow measured diligent response may not be possible because of the politics domestically but I think a lot of people have learned and I hope that this is
one of the lessons the premier have learned that thinking out loud and ruminating about whatever their own individual uh you know Saving Grace is for this uh is actually simply weaponized by Trump I mean I feel bad for Daniel Smith I never thought I'd say it but I actually do feel kind of bad for her having you know put her heart out there and you know exposing the Canadian oil industry and saying how great this was and Trump slapping her back going don't care you know this is uh I think where they've got to realize
is that this is not uh you know as James has this type of reaction this kind of sense that you can get these one-offs just isn't going to work with this guy and we really do need that kind of team candidate approach the the question will be you know to what extent though do we need to be readying that response and this was certainly one of the things that Doug Ford's team was telling uh folks in Ontario privately in meetings is that they were very frustrated that Ontario that the federal government had not spent time
thinking about what the countermeasures would be the Ontario government had spent months they said they started working on it back in March uh to understand what their response would be what they thought the Tariff should be and how they would take that to Ottawa and there was no receptive ear in Ottawa so I mean this is part of the problem within the Federation this is part of I think why you see Ford stepping up and going hey nobody else is here I'm going to fill the vacuum it's convenient it also comes in advance of a
number of political problems he's got to domestically around the green belt and his budgets and a bunch of other things that this is a good distraction for him but I think that that's kind of what what's fitting in and this is hopefully a lesson that all the premier have learned which is be careful about what you're speculating on uh in public Shota your thoughts on that well I would agree with that and I would say that you know we're also the collective we are also taking moments to maybe do things that are that are unhelpful
when when the leader of the opposition puts out not an off-the-cuff statement in a scrum or or a a reaction to a reporter's question but deliberately says things like Canada has never been so weak and out of control how do you think that plays on the other side of the Border how do you think that plays in a trump White House now uh maybe maybe Pierre poov knows something that the rest of us don't know maybe he thinks that this is brilliant strategy I think it is it is part of the problem I said back
in early November as soon as that election was was uh over that we would probably not see the same level of coherent United pan political Team Canada response that that uh we saw the first time around and and that's because of the the domestic political uh uh variations and machinations that are now playing out and coming to pass but it just looks very ugly very messy and I don't see how it can possibly be helpful from a negotiating or a strength tactic at this stage no Jonathan you know partisans will put the blame on whoever
they want but there is something fun m al broken in politics right now because people on other sides of the divides they just don't talk to each other try to understand each other and and and agree with each other so they can't pull together the only place where you kind of see cross-partisan agreement is when the premier meet with the premier because they're never going to run against each other at least not in their current jobs right and this is a fundamental challenge with a a guy like Trump who causes fractures probes for weaknesses and
domestic and individual agendas are kind of getting in the way of of collaboration and cooperation at in kind of every level all else being equal and it's not we're talking about politics here but wouldn't it be great if Justin Trudeau could call Pier PV and say come into my office bring Jamal javani with you let's sit down and figure out how we can get past the next couple of months because this guy has special access he can pick up the phone or he can fly down to Washington and have a straight conversation with JD Vance
and we can discuss how how much JD Vance in the end is going to have an influence on Donald Trump or not but you know if all else was equal and we weren't in a political war zone then maybe that could happen maybe the Prime Minister should do it anyways I I just don't see that offer being accepted and you know again Shashi said it we're not in 2017 you know Ron Ambrose played an important role uh with others uh in you know NAFTA negotiations 1 Point know and you know unfortunately Brian morrone has passed
away and he played a role in that so you know cross part bipartisan cooperation is a show of strength we're just not in that reality anymore and we can point fingers but that's not actually a solution I wish we could just find a solution put down the guns for short period of time and say what's in the best interest of all Canadians I think everyone would benefit because Canadians would applaud that really from all Corners it's not going to happen James 30 seconds on that if you got or or was who was jumping in there
was that Andrew is Andrew yeah sorry I was just going to say I mean I I kind of agree with that with the one exception that this isn't going to get settled quickly this isn't a oneandone situation with Trump we are going to be in this for months and I can you know I understand where to a certain extent PV is at which is why I cooperate with this guy when he thinks he's going to be you know the prime minister in in six months and it's still going to have these problems to deal with
there's a sense of let's pull as much possible forward because there's going to be a long time where we're going to have to sort out what to do with Trump and I think as long as we' got that instability here that's one of the problems that Canada is going to have no and you're not wrong on that James is day four of 1, 461 days of the Trump Administration right so so yes maybe Justin Trudeau maybe PV doesn't need to do it in the short term but he might need this kind of support a year
from now two years from now so do you think there's any world in with something like this can happen in the next 60 days uh yeah but I think Andrew's point is the APT one right U president Trump at any time as he did with steel and aluminum can invoke section 232 tariffs and bring them down nothing is ever his fault nothing is ever a mistake he is always the victim and when it comes to being a victim then he has powers at his disposal to go after the other even if you have a new
NAFTA the usmca or the kousma agreement is a was a replacement of the old NAFTA agreement and it's being violated by by nature of this as well so even if you get a new NAFTA we have four years here where we're going to be riding the bull and it's going to be complicated and we're going to we are going to need everybody to have their best efforts forward and we just kind of as I said respond don't react be thoughtful be linear be long-term build relationships with Marco Rubio build relationships with Ambassador hookstra deal with
Governors deal with Mayors deal with play the long game be calm this relationship is has been the most prosperous in human history and it'll survive any of these gations okay uh we got a we got yeah we just solved it uh good good work everybody it's a productive Thursday I want to thank the power Andrew Thompson shoty Cur Jonathan kis and James Moore
