You may be seated. Hello, Your Honor, this is the case of<i> Manser v. Sehr.
</i> Thank you, Jerome. Sure. Good day, everyone.
Good day. BILL: Good day. JUDGE LAKE: Mr Manser, you claim you spent five years in prison for failing to pay child support for the defendant, Ms.
Sehr's son, Dylan. That's right. JUDGE LAKE: And it was never proven that you are his biological father.
That's right. (AUDIENCE REACT) JUDGE LAKE: Now, Ms. Sehr, you say you have proof that Mr Manser is Dylan's father.
You argue you are here to prove, again, that he is the father of your son, to finally stop him running from his responsibility. Yes, ma'am. JUDGE LAKE: Mr Manser, explain to the court the circumstances surrounding you arrest.
Well, Your Honor, I'm here to explain that 12 hours of my life cost me five years in the Department of Corrections. (LAUGHS) She was a friend of my aunt. She was best friends with my aunt.
We all lived in the same little community. She lived across the street. I knew of her.
I knew her, I've spoken to her. But, as far as intimacy, we were together one time. And I hate to be crude, but it was a one-night stand.
I don't care what your version was, I was far from a one-night stand. Well, define the word "Dating. " Living across the street from each other?
Far from a one-night stand. My wife's gonna be upset 'cause I live across the street. .
. JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Sehr.
. . .
. . from somebody I'm not dating.
Oh, if I was your wife, I wouldn't trust you for nothing. JUDGE LAKE: I don't think, after all of this that has transpired, it really matters whether it was a one-night stand or a two-day tryst. .
. The point is, is you all had a sexual relationship at some point. So there is a possibility that he's the father of your son, Dylan.
Correct. Possibility. JUDGE LAKE:<i> Okay.
</i> I didn't find out anything about the child until I was served with papers in 1995. JUDGE LAKE: And so, you showed up for court and what happened? No, he didn't show up.
I was unable to show up. I was completely on the other side of the state. I was indigent.
I was living at my mom's. Didn't have a job at the time. So I didn't show up for court, and I was named the natural father by default.
JUDGE LAKE: And then what happens? And then I was charged criminally for not paying the child support that was ordered in the default judgment. So how did you get arrested?
That came three years later after I still didn't pay child support. Still unable to pay. I still had doubt.
I've never, to this day. . .
Thank God for your show or I'd never know for sure <i> whether or not I was the natural father. Never. </i> ELIZABETH:<i> If you would've shown up for court, you would've known.
</i> I didn't. . .
I couldn't show up for court. Why? I got there.
There a lot of people. . .
You live in the same town. Well, I got there just fine. Yeah.
I'm sure you did. I wasn't busy running away from everything. Did you.
. . That's right.
. . You didn't pay child support for about eight years.
Quit telling them it was three years, it was about eight years. The Court order was in 1995. Mmm-hmm.
I got arrested in 1998. So that's three years in my calculation. Twelve years.
. . And I went to prison for five years.
When I got out of prison in 2003, I paid child support from that day until this February of last year when I lost my job. Only because they garnished your wages. Absolutely.
That's what they do. And I actually asked my public defender, "Where's the proof? I've yet to see proof that the child's mine.
" He said that they obtained my DNA through a sample that was already on file. That's what she's claiming this whole time. For a daughter you didn't raise, too.
So, that's right. I'm not here to win any Father of the Year award, believe me. (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) ELIZABETH: You wouldn't get it.
But I'm here to say that, you know, in today's society, I think it's cruel and unusual punishment to be sentenced to five years in prison with rapists and murderers, and child molesters for missing a court date. 'Cause that's basically what happened. I missed a court date.
(APPLAUSE) ELIZABETH: You missed being a father. I dint know he was mine. You've had these so called "results", you know, for all this time.
If she'd presented these results back in 1995, or better yet, in court, when I was going to be sentenced to prison, things could've have been a whole lot different. I would probably. .
. I know I would've embraced Dylan a lot more than I did. Because, to this day I still don't have proof.
JUDGE LAKE: Once you don't show up for court, Mr Manser, yeah. (STUTTERS) You understand that now, that in this country, you've got to show up for court, if you've got to walk there. You need to be there.
You're right, Your Honor. Okay. And then you pled guilty.
So, for every American boy out there that goes to Florida on spring break and hooks up with a girl, and the girl goes to Texas, and the boy goes back to Massachusetts, and there's a petition to show up. . .
Yes! If he can't fly from Massachusetts to Texas, he's automatically the natural father? He better find a way.
And listen. Listen, listen. The pain that you've endured and what you've gone through is in part because.
. . My stubbornness.
JUDGE LAKE: Thank you. Yeah. My stubbornness.
(APPLAUSE) And you are a living example of that. (STUTTERS) It needs to be known out there. So, now, as you're being hauled off to court, you're still adamant, and you're saying, "I'm not the father of this child.
" I'm saying, "I've never been proven to be the father of this child. " I hadn't met him till he was, like, 15 years, after I initiated contact. .
. Eleven. .
. . for my son Chris.
I want him. . .
So, wait. Now, are you convinced he is the father? ELIZABETH: Yes, ma'am.
Why? 'Cause I have had a DNA test done, and I have the results right here. Would you like a copy of it?
She's worked for a lab pretty much for the last 20 years. I question the validity of the results. I mean, she could get those anywhere.
JUDGE LAKE: Hold on one second. Jerome, please hand me Ms. Sehr's evidence.
Here you go. ELIZABETH: It also shows the lab didn't. .
. The seal was not tampered with, therefore I cannot have tampered with the sample I never submitted to a test. I got a hold of the court clerks.
They sent me every. . .
I have a docket sheet here that pretty much details everything that's ever taken place in my file. There's nothing in there that show's any lab results. I mean, she had a boyfriend at the time, she had a Navajo Indian that was her boyfriend.
Jerome, please hand me Mr Manser evidence as well. He has evidence of what? I have evidence that there was never a DNA test.
There's no DNA testing in there. There was. If you want more episodes of Paternity Court Make sure to subscribe and click on the notification bell.
Before we continue to argue this, let me look at Ms. Sehr's evidence that she included because I want to understand the situation surrounding this previously collected sample. Who's to say it was my sample.
Maybe they got it mixed up with John Smith, down the street, you know. (LAUGHS) Ms. Sehr, your evidence clearly states that there was a laboratory test performed.
Yes, ma'am. JUDGE LAKE: I see here. I don't think it happened.
I think she worked in a lab, and she's had this thing manufactured. (LAUGHS) So. .
. JUDGE LAKE: This is what movies are made of. Yeah.
JUDGE LAKE: Now, Ms. Sehr. .
. I am good at my job, but I'm not that good. Did you work at a lab?
Who's to say. . .
I did. Actually, at that time, I worked at a plasma center. I harvested plasma with 16 gauge needles, had nothing to do with DNA.
I'm sure, you know, when you're in a business, you know other people from the business. Now, what's interesting to me is that, as I go through this evidence. .
. ELIZABETH: I was in school at that time, by the way. .
. . and I get to the information that is also included in the collection of the samples, <i> I do see that for alleged father,</i> <i> it's entirely blank.
</i> BILL:<i> That's right. Imagine that. </i> <i> Meaning, there is no Social Security number.
. . </i> <i> That's right.
</i> JUDGE LAKE:<i> . . .
there is no address. . .
</i> BILL:<i> She forgot to put that part in there. </i> <i> . .
. there is no information about you. It's all blank.
</i> <i> There's no picture of you, there's no photograph. </i> She didn't have that information. That's right.
Exactly! So, obviously, your contention that you didn't show up, you weren't there for this particular test is true. BILL: You're right.
Because there's no evidence that you were there on that day. We've established that. That's exactly right.
Thank you, Your Honor. We do, however, see a lab record of a collection taken on May 1st, 1995, which they claim was you. The date in May when they put on the extension number, that is when they pulled a sample out of their freezer.
Ms. Sehr, I see the laboratory results of the testing with a probability of paternity of 99. 67 percent.
You know, ma'am, that he said 99. 67 means he still might not be the father when he heard that number. Now, listen.
. . You can't pretend.
. . Mr Manser, let me say this to you.
What I do believe that's missing in all of this evidence is I don't see any information relating to the collection of the sample from Mr Manser. Now, listen. Mr Manser, let me say this to you.
What I do believe that's missing in all of this evidence is I don't see any information relating to the collection of the sample from Mr Manser. BILL: Right. JUDGE LAKE: Nothing!
Now, this court has administered new testing. Right. And both of you submitted to the test.
And it was. . .
ELIZABETH: True. JUDGE LAKE: Is that correct? And it was very thorough.
JUDGE LAKE: And is that correct, Ms. Sehr? Yes.
And we will reveal those results shortly. You think our DNA changed in 20 years? No, I think the chain of custody's changed.
I think. . .
JUDGE LAKE: Okay. . .
Your Honor, wouldn't most women want to shove that piece of paper in my face? I've yet to see this piece of paper. ELIZABETH: What's that got to do with anything?
Well, I guarantee you, any woman in this courtroom would want to prove or erase any of my doubt, that's for sure. You didn't even talk about doubt. There was never even an issue of doubt until my son turned 18 years old.
(BOTH ARGUING) JUDGE LAKE: So, wait a minute. Ms. Sehr, hold on!
Let's get some order. (POUNDS GAVEL) I want to understand this. Ms.
Sehr, you're saying that he expressed no doubt to you as to whether or not Dylan was his son until he was around 18? ELIZABETH:<i> Not until Dylan turned 18. </i> Don't you think the fact that I have nothing to do with him would express doubt?
You haven't had anything to do with three of you kids, including the one sitting there. I got one right here. Not until he was 13.
I got one right now. Yeah, because I was in prison for five years. Do the math!
That's not 13 years. I'm not winning no award. I here to tell you that I didn't submit to a DNA test.
At least on my part, he made up for it. He really has. So, let's hear from you son.
Please step up to the podium, Mr Manser. Please step up. You are Mr Manser's son?
Yes. Please tell us, has he been a father to you, and if so, has he been a good one? Absolutely.
He's been a great father to me. Um, we've had our ups and downs as a father-son relationship should be. But.
. . BILL:<i> We're best friends.
We're best friends. </i> CHRIS:<i> We really are. </i> JUDGE LAKE: And Chris, you've met Dylan, Ms.
Sehr's son? I originated that. JUDGE LAKE:<i> Were you like brothers, Chris?
</i> CHRIS:<i> Absolutely, yes. </i> BILL:<i> Absolutely. </i> JUDGE LAKE:<i> You had a relationship?
</i> CHRIS:<i> Yeah, I've felt he was my brother since I met him. </i> So, you've seen your father treat Dylan well? Yes.
Absolutely. I've been withdrawn. I've been distant, but that's because of the doubt that I've had, you know?
ELIZABETH:<i> You didn't even. . .
</i> BILL:<i> I've had doubt. </i> So, Mr Manser, you claim this has destroyed your life. Absolutely.
. . You've had a pretty decent life.
You didn't give up anything. I think it's time we meet Dylan. Jerome, will you escort Dylan into the courtroom, please?
Certainly. (SOFTLY) Just go up and stand on the other side. .
. Hello, Dylan. DYLAN: How are you?
Thank you for joining us. Now, Dylan, I want to know about your relationship with your father. I feel like I don't know him that well.
We don't. We don't know each other. JUDGE LAKE: Go ahead, son.
I love Chris, though. We've spent a lot of time together. JUDGE LAKE: Your brother?
Yeah. We're going to be brothers no matter what. <i> No matter what happens after today.
</i> DYLAN:<i> I've only met my little brother. . .
</i> Would you like to have a relationship with Mr Manser? I'm not really sure. I mean.
. . I can't respect someone talking so much harmful to my mother.
That's what I didn't want to do. I didn't want to do that. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) What do you want from today, Dylan?
I haven't seen either one of them in over a year. He has a daughter on the way. I have a daughter due in November.
You're the grandpa. I'd like for you to be part of her life. Well, I'd advise you to get proof.
I'd advise him to raise his child from day one. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Well, once he gets proof, he will. JUDGE LAKE: Ms.
Sehr, you are very emotional right now. What are you feeling in this moment? I feel like I've never ever deserved disrespect.
I was not the woman that showed up at your doorstep every two months. "You're going to be my baby's daddy. " I have never disrespected you.
You didn't have to. You prosecuted me. I let you live your life.
. . Live your selfish life you've lived for the last 20 years.
All right. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) JUDGE LAKE: I think it's time for the results. Yes, ma'am.
JUDGE LAKE: All right. Jerome, do you have the envelope? I do.
Thank you. You're welcome. Everything's in there.
Thank you. You're welcome. These results were prepared by DNA Diagnostics.
And because this is a very special case, and we've had previous DNA testing done, in which our plaintiff questions the chain of custody of the specimen, the actual sample that was collected. Right. Now there's no doubt, the result to this.
You filled out the proper forms. . .
That's right. . .
. including your names, date of birth, social security number. That's right.
And you signed them, right? BILL: Yep. <i> You presented photo IDs.
</i> Yes, ma'am. ELIZABETH:<i> And there wasn't a friend of mine there, either. </i> That's why these will be accurate.
JUDGE LAKE: No friend there. The photographs were taken of each of you. <i> Everyone involved.
</i> There was swabbing performed, and they were packaged in envelopes. In front of us. In front of me.
JUDGE LAKE: They were properly labeled, signed by the collector, sealed with tape. . .
Right. . .
. and sent to the lab for testing. Are we clear on that procedure?
ELIZABETH: Yes, ma'am. That's the correct procedure. Yeah.
And you were comfortable with that procedure. Absolutely. Yes.
The lab, because of the sensitivity of this issue, ran two tests. Nice. The results are as follows.
In the case of<i> Manser v. Sehr,</i> Mr Manser. .
. The lab, because of the sensitivity of this issue, ran two tests. The results are as follows.
(EXHALES) In the case of<i> Manser v. Sehr,</i> as it pertains to 20-year-old Dylan Sehr, Mr Manser. .
. You. .
. Are. .
. Not his father. Oh, God!
(AUDIENCE GASP) Oh, man! Five years in prison. (AUDIENCE REACT) I.
. . Dylan, I'm sorry, bro.
This is why. This is why I did what I did. ELIZABETH: But this does not mean I made up the lab test.
You've made it all up. No, I did not. Well, those results, apparently, are made up.
I don't know any of those people on that form. Oh, my God. This is clearly the most shocking news.
. . ELIZABETH: Very much.
. . .
we've ever gotten in this courtroom. Oh, my God! She should be convicted of some crime.
No, I should not. That is Fraud. Mr Manser, I know you're upset.
That is fraud. (SIGHS) I know it's overwhelming. BILL: I told you.
I need a moment with Dylan because I want to make sure he understands. Do you want to find out who your father is? Of course.
JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Sehr, do you know? Yes, ma'am.
JUDGE LAKE: You know who his father is? Yes, I talk to him still. (AUDIENCE REACT) JUDGE LAKE: Listen.
. . Get away from my son.
(SOFTLY) I'm sorry. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) He apologized. I know that under his breath he's calling me a liar.
You cannot stand there and really suggest that you cannot comprehend why this man would not have any type of ill feeling, frustration or regret as it relates to anything involving you. Five years in prison! And then I say, "Do you know who your son's father is?
" And you say, "Yes. I'm still in touch with him. " That is a really huge pill to swallow!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) JUDGE LAKE: Dylan, this was not an easy day for you. And I commend you for standing here, as respectfully as you have. I wish you the best of luck.
Thank you. If you need help processing this, figuring out how to get through it, the court can provide resources for you, all. I wish you the best of luck, and I'm going to see each one of you in my chambers because I feel like I need to tell you some things as a woman and judge that can help you move forward, faster.
BILL: Thank you. Court is adjourned.
