Movement Mastery and Expanded Consciousness with Ido Portal

I continue to create for myself the opportunities for self-education not by reading the books and again getting the no no no don't do this do this Etc but by receiving opportunities to naturally feel and sense my mistakes and as well other areas which are more clicking into place ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the musle intelligence podcast today's Podcast is perhaps one of the best conversations I've had in many many years and that's not hyperbole um if you're into understanding human dynamics if you're into understanding human movement if you've been a fan of this podcast

this guest is in perfect alignment with everything I preach about and he does it in a much more eloquent way um ELO portello joins me today you may recognize Ido from his time working with Conor McGregor as a movement expert He's an incredible movement genius um and he may angry with me for saying that but he is also just an incredible intellectual with amazing amazing insights and depth that just seldom found in common society and this as I said went in a lot of different directions we talk a lot about Movement we talk a lot

about the thought behind Movement we talk a lot about how you can optimize movement and ultimately how oo has helped some of the best people in The world the best athletes in the world to optimize how they move what benefits you might see from improve improving your movement practice and maybe the things you might be missing in your movement practice that you should absolutely be thinking about and now enjoy the show with the incredible The Talented Ido portel I was a very very uh capable athlete as a child and then pursued bodybuilding so different different

Direction and now uh just completely resonate with your your mindset around movement right is it becomes so linear become so constrained and I've spent the last five years unwinding 20 years of professional bodybuilding right so I retired in 2016 um started pursuing yoga pretty pretty rular rigorously because that's the only path I knew that was like oh yoga feels like it's it's unwinding bodybuilding so it opened up my Mobility Quite a bit but as you would say it it ended up being still pretty rigid right it wasn't it wasn't as Dynamic it wasn't athletic as

I'd like it to be and then I started moving on this path of like seeing yourself and and starting to understand okay like what does this look like for me to to get into things that are a little more organic and I'd love to just start with a simple question is what is movement to you because uh I think I think having that clear Definition to start off our conversation just would be so powerful it's a question I get a lot I try to address it with every day every day every practice and yeah a

lot of moments ments of each day I think as a concept it's a concept that crosses so many different layers and that's why it's so confusing um because it's almost synonymous with a lot of those big words like being it's it's very much related to time and space also very related to To the opposite to the Stillness that is in its background and then we have of course physical movement which is a something that we use a lot this days when we mention this word but I'm I'm working with more than just physical movement I

try to apply it across the board into many other layers movement of thoughts movement of emotions that's such a big and diverse concept it's all it's it's it's related to an act of observation it's related to metabolism To breast not not physical breath only but to the breathing of everything around us expansion contraction that's why it's very difficult to address it or to discuss it directly but you have to apply it into a specific layer movement of a joint movement of the body or movement of a of another physical phenomenon or not physical phenomenon Etc

where's your mind when you move well it depends where it first where it should be and where it is those Are two different things when you are truly busy with the movement the mind is caring with it is not so much performing it from my experience and my my observation of it but it is more carried by it so in a way the future creates the past or or the observation creates The observed those are perceived as when we are in tune when we are in good movement it happens to us it moves through us

and then the mind is perfectly still on the on that movement it almost sounds like Like stepen Cotler would prescribe or describe as Flo or ultimately M chick s Mii would would describe as as a flow State I think that a lot of those definitions and observations come from the same the same need and the same observation just different terminologies yeah definitely so again another high level question why do you move and so where I'm going with that is I think anyone listening has never explored anything in their life to the depth that You explore

movement and when they start movement they won't start where you start they're going to start with you know as you you would say Big Frame small frame right they're gonna start Big Frame was your small frame and now after moving for you know coming up you know 40 Years of of intentional movement I would say you've been doing it very very long time why do you move now moving I don't have a choice we are moving as we are here we are moving Right now it's more aligning with the nature of that movement or not

what I try to to do is to be as whole as I can with the movement that I am in the moving through life sitting in a chair walking lifting weights those are just opportunities to align with it and also it can be very fractioned very de Associated where we are doing something but many aspect of ourselves are not aligned with that movement so that that's the reason that I'm trying to Address movement to move I must move as I'm here as I am going through this life I am going through this reality but I'm

trying to align more and more as I can with that movement the nature of that movement I love that and it sounds like it starts with presence right it starts as you say being present in the moment and it feels like there would be a depth to that presence right same idea Big Frame small frame someone who's barely paying attention to these big frame Movements their depth of attention or depth of presence is very shallow or someone like yourself who's getting into what we'll call the small frame movements requires it almost necessitates a different depth

of presence does that sound accurate yeah but depth can hint of degrees where it is more in all different directions there is no better directly there is more aware as those frames become Clos closer and closer together and Ultimately become more as a continuous flow of presence but our mind tends to take snapshots at especially the the intellectual property the cognitive property as we're thinking about our Movement we are not being in Movement we are thinking about movement that's a step a step a beginner step in becoming more and more in tune and that narrows

down these frames until they are becoming more and more continuous or one flow of attention and presence so it's Not necessarily deeper it can be also shallower but it is whole it is present in more and more and more aspects as well as more and more and more points in the time frame on the [Music] timeline hey everybody just a quick Interruption to this podcast from a message from our sponsors our sponsor today is organifi you guys have heard me talking about organifi green and red for a long time I've been drinking it every Day

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their gold which I promise you will not regret organifi.com muscle back to the [Music] show this your movement thought process Been influenced in any way by Tai Chi because it feels like at points where the concept of moving energy gets pulled into what you do like when when you move it it looks somewhere between you know a graceful movement and a dance and taichi and this this this almost feels like like a flow of of energy a flow of chi is that something you've ever considered yeah I I definitely looked into Tai Chi and research

taii tries to achieve the same the same goal it's a transform Ative practice aiming to bring this continuous presence in motion uh with every step along the way and and it does that through very basic movement the very basic movements um kind of like original movement forms for example if you can take a step um that is more original that is more basic than doing an elaborate Den move and then each step is comprised of going up and down and comprised of a certain rotation That appears so those are even more basic subatomic level original

forms and that that's the process of taing other methods somatic practices like for example MOS felden CH he tried to achieve the same through his instruction and and and it goes on and on it's all speaking of the same process focusing and having certain pros and cons due to that Focus for example taii is very good with achieving certain aspects of that quality but then it's very bad with Other aspects of that quality which is often not addressed which is often not mentioned because in those fields the perception is very enclosed there is a there

is a a culture of practice and a way of practice that gets more and more specialized even when you are trying to approach something general and a good example of that is is the amazing balance that the Tai CH practitioner has put them on a slack line and you'll expose immediately what is there what is Not there in terms of balance change the scenario then take a tight drop Walker or slack line specialist and put him in Tai Chi and have him just take basic steps on the floor and you'll see that even in something

so basic they will not be the depth of balance and knowledge of movement that the taii practitioner has and that's why I try to practice in in a more open way because I don't wish to achieve this specialized result or this specialized result not the do portal Result or not the taichi result but I wish to examine the concept itself so keep changing the the container that's the way for me I love that and I think that's great awareness for everyone out there to acknowledge is like no matter what you're doing no matter how far

you can take that singular thing like the basketball player being really good at basketball the better you get at that one thing the more it kind of strains you because you're within that container And and your concept seems to be like well eliminate the container learn how to move within every small frame imaginable whatever comes in front of you now it then it becomes I think curiosity in play at the root of it all definitely that's probably my most fundamental and and and my basic attribute that that drived everything in my life it's curiosity one

little correction is that I don't try to eliminate the container because I must Use the containers but I keep switching the containers in such a way that allows me both to receive some of the benefits of that specific container but not become overly specialized with it and then it's time to switch the container again but keep the same content so the content will be addressed across so many different containers you have a better chance of actually grasping the con content why don't I eliminate a container because it's impossible the Content must be carried by a

container right and the container is a form of practice an exercise a task a technique and I need those just like everyone else needs them I just try not to get stuck on them too much that's great so you mentioned earlier this this um awareness around emotions and how that's tied into movement and I'm I'm curious well maybe you could draw the bridge there for us CU I I I know I feel I know where you're going but I know the audience would draw A direct correlation between you know someone at your level who is

able to move through you know undulate through such nuanced movement and how that ultimately influences your emotional states and how someone else may experience emotional release or catharsis or or whatever it may be from um some expression of movement okay those are great question you really fire ING with me but I I enjoy those questions yeah first let me offer Something when you are mentioning my work or or my my way of doing I would avoid to to put any title of a level on it or a quality because the more I practice the more

I'm convinced that I'm of no level a very low level let's say and and I think that's probably um a big strength of the way that I practice it's a little bit you have nowadays in in martial arts world as uh we became more um as became bigger Something like grappling or MMA and people in there are being humbled daily you see those practitioners are much more humbl than sometimes the traditional martial artists which don't get humble daily so I'm one of those who get humbled daily if you'll watch me practice every day the way

that I practice in my personal practice you won't see anything impressive most of the time and because I'm I'm working through another scenario and again have To create my observations and now about your question the movement of emotions and the patterns of emotions first I I believe that there is a great confusion about emotions generally as we address them we title them but we don't quite observe them as accurately as we can and hence we are under the impression that they manifest on a layer that we refer to as emotional layer but if we actually

observe it we'll discover that most of these Emotions exist as as a form of a physical pattern plus added some cognition on it some thought about it that is maybe connecting to the past past experiences or future fears Etc so I think most emotions are not really emotions they're fake emotions they're actually comprised of other elements there are other emotions more more genuine emotions but they're more rare let's say and they're actually a good place to to Aspire to to to feel those Emotions for example genuine gratitude is very difficult to feel and you'll hear

a lot people say thank you these days but to feel that that genuine gratitude is is not really something that occurs before they say that automatic thank you those patterns of emotions they are tied and into physical patterns so they can exist Within These this scenario that occurs in the body and in the mind so when you're working with movement you are basically changing The ground the ground on which emotions hang into and and and grab into and you become a lot more pable and a lot more a lot more clarity arrives in the way

that you feel in the way that you are able to observe feelings in the way that they are able to rise and to fall as well instead of being kind of just being rled by the that ocean of emotions that many people experience and I always recommend to people to start with physical Observation because trying to think about emotions just simply doesn't work as as most people probably discovered if they tried usually cognition is almost like a lower level fuel source compared to emotions which are using much higher fuel source much more powerful energetic thing

so hence we're trying to fight these very powerful a movement inside of us with a very inferior movement so when does it work usually when another emotion is used to transform and fight That prior emotion or when a physical instinctual bodily support arrives for example I might get angry and agitated but if I'm feeling very well Vitality very energetic I'll be able to fight a lot of these anger much easier because I have that energetic support coming from the body in that day I won't be so agitated but in a day of low energy I'll

be much more prone to those emotions the other choice would be to involve another emotion for example in Some some places they for in Buddhism they use meta for example loving kindness which is a very powerful emotion that can can be used to to manipulate other emotions but the start of the process what I recommend is to observe physically what is the occurring what is actually occurring when we say I am agitated or I am sad we tend to think about that physical sensation but we don't observe the physical sensation where does it manifest for

example if I'm angry is it a form of a stomach ache is it a pressure in the head is it a contraction of certain muscles around the jaw or in the neck When You observe those things you allow first you you create a bit of a de Association and you allow some separation to occur you don't fuel the fire with more oil and you can start to transform the physical pattern in which this emotion hangs into and if you transform the physical pattern the emotion evaporates it's gone I love that And you said disassociate I

was thinking uncouple right I was like just like yeah what it sound like you're saying is many people will feel some type of physic physical sensation they'll create a cognitive story around what that sensation actually means when in reality we have the ability to push it away uncouple it and then change the physical physical sensation into something that maybe is um not going to make us a victim to an emotional reaction yes yes The only thing again I would be careful with the word push away because the push away will create an immediate resistance but

if I just observe what is occurring I don't try to push it away I don't try to elim that will not work I just observe the pattern as I'm observing the pattern and noting it for myself and really looking carefully I am transforming without any resistance and then later on I will be able to recognize the slow accumulation Of that pattern that leads to the emotion later on and then that would be um that would be even better because I'm now not allowing certain aspect certain emotions to control me because they have to hang on

they have to climb me my physical presence certain tensions in the body certain patterns either rol said the issues are in the tissue that's what she meant they have to hang on to something emotions are physical there is nothing that is not physical and there Is nothing that is not mental not that is occurring to us right now here all the fluctuations those are movements movements that we call thoughts movements that we call emotions movement that we call physical gestures or Mo physical movements and they manifest also physically as well as in other layers and

this is very it's a big mystery but we definitely for me the best starting point is in this physical Part this physical part is a allowing me not to create any resistance not to fight anything and to be very still at the same time active with improving this aspect it's a lot there I think in your experience is it innately human and I could be wrong but is it innately human to want to feel something negative you know they put a label on something this is negative and I want to get rid of it I

want to push it away so there's something there it sounds like there's Something there around non-judgment right like see receiving what's there being being present with what's there and just being like I'm just going to I'm just going to let it go that that may be there may be a lot of um you know challenge in there for some people or or maybe a process to get there totally and and all these aspects that you're mentioning they are they're preached in those circles non attachment nonjudgment because they work because they work and The the fighting

the the active mindset the active active because we are talking about another type of active active passive where the activity is balanced with a certain passivity I do not go directly for the effect this success mindset is a huge problem and and at a certain point you just reach a point where you cannot go further I've I've experience certain success in certain areas of my life this becomes even a bigger trap so if you are successful to A certain extent you assume that is going to continue to work but at a certain point that will

not go any further and you will realize that you've created a huge amount of resistance with every active pursuit of success a bit disconnecting from that side of things this success mindset in its simplistic way in its overly simplistic way so I I know a lot of people have issues with it and might even need to crash and burn to hit the bottom of the ocean in order to Reach place where they are willing to try something else but I encourage you to try to to start with something very simple like I'm doing with my

students we are examining it in very simple scenarios escalating the scenarios as we go along the way as we continue to progress as we examine it in different containers and different scenarios it's it's very difficult to be hit in the face in boxing training and to undo this effect that occurs Inside if you cannot deal with bad words being screamed at your face like happens for example in the military as you're being talked at being you know screened at and those are steps those are steps along the way and I think a lot of people

that's where they they have the issue if they try to apply this concept they fail because they try to apply them in a too advanced fashion and we must start with something very basic understand how reactive we are almost Everything to the touch of the floor underneath the feet from there we can start to examine to observe and to undo you know that's beautiful the the success mindset is just so deeply woven into current society that is just constant Pursuit right it's like even from this time you're a child you're rewarded for success success there's

wins and there's losses and teaching you know reining the the the process oriented The Beginner's mind into our Culture just it just needs to be there like I feel like I mean needs to I I think many people um see the value so my speaking of my my specific circumstance you know reach the top of the level in professional bodybuilding and similar idea that's all I knew right that's all I wanted and I got there and it was this awareness like this is completely empty this is the ceiling right could I go higher maybe but

this is the ceiling and this is not what I hoped it to be and Now this is what's kind of been the Catalyst for this new journey is it's just like the journey is the process right the process is the journey and uh learning to exist in the in the small frames to use your um your metaphor it's just such a great framing so i' love for you to actually share what that is because we use that term a couple times large frame small frame and I don't expect our audience to know that and so

if you wouldn't mind just maybe Analyzing that a little bit for us dissecting that for us because I think that's a good Bridge it's a terminology that is used actually in martial arts and I kind of stole it and use it in a different way a little bit well everything has basic element to it like subatomic particles even when when you recognize this is the atom there is subatomic particles and those are comprised of even smaller and smaller entities so the small frame Big Frame it Just brings a certain relationship between two layers saying here

is movement here is even more basic and more subunit yeah more more Nuance movement and the focus that I try to draw is that people are attracted to the to the big bells and whistles to the those big movements just like they're attracted to the big bodies the big muscular bodies but actually those big movements are comprised of very small movements that Very few people care about and when you care about these small movements you naturally get the big movement because it's comprised of the small movements but if you just go for the big movement

you'll discover that you don't the control that you think you have outside of that specific movement and that's where the illusion is for example Michael Jordan was a great mover Michael Jordan was not a great mover Michael Jordan was a great basketball player and When he tried to become a baseball player he couldn't actually make that work on on the same level he's still very gifted and probably above average in many aspects of movement but what it goes to show us is the fact that you are able to address all that needs to be addressed

in basketball movements doesn't mean that you can address them if you change the ball to a smaller ball and the scenario to a different scenario not to talk about being a dancer an Acrobat or or you know any or a sailor whatever and that's where the focus for me um became smaller and smaller on original forms basic subatomic forms of move that are comprising all the big techniques that that's a big Pursuit it doesn't mean that you immediately receive everything that I can be great at everything but it does bring a certain knowledge into things

that you've never done and this is why I Started it I I used to say you're good at what you do that's not a problem everybody does that but can you be good at what you don't do that's actually a much better Pursuit not to slowly slowly practice in in your house hiding away from others but really to address it for the first time for me that's a very good test for a mover and you'll disc discover you'll be surprised some people which are considered great movers because they were great athletes are Actually very poor

movers and other people who you would not think twice about will actually show proficiency across many different scenarios yeah and so that's a little bit touching that concept I love it one question that came up for me while you're were talking there is I'm really curious how exploring motion exploring movement through your life has influenced your sensory experience in in the other senses so I'm a I'm a longtime fan of Leonardo da Vinci who speaks of his um success uccess in so many different areas being a polymath he attributes it to depth of awareness of

his sensory experience and so someone who explores movement to the to the again I know you don't you don't like the word depth but that's the only word that I'm able to come up with I'm curious if if you also find yourself exploring hearing and flavors and sight and perhaps smells in in the same nuanced way definitely That's something again that we are not usually train to think of for example bodybuilding training the muscle and then later on came concept of training the fascia the connect the connected tissue and then came another concept of training

the tendons okay but this can be applied all across the board go the full way you can train the senses you can train awareness in the way that awareness is always perfect of and of the same intensity but As it manifests into a certain aspect then you can train that aspect of awareness awareness itself is already full potency one or zero and it's always one it's always there but then as it manifest you can let it come out stronger or weaker or in in different qualities and ways and the same for senses and uh people

lost a lot of people during covid lost the sense of smell and a friend it happened to him and asked me I said train back your Sense of smell wake up in the morning take cloes take take a cinnamon take a citrus smell and look with your awareness for the tiniest hints of that and the various colors and textures inside that smell and you will see that you will regain back slowly slowly slowly in that process and that can be taking ad noosing you can train your senses to become very potent so that's something that

most people don't realize but because I've been living this Journey for many years now my sensory experience I guess is very different than people's for me it's it's normal but the way that I use my eyes my hearing my sense of smell my sense of taste has been totally transformed because those are movements and in order to pursue some of the movement aspects that I have pursued I I had to develop that like for example the use of the eyes is so Primary in the way that we move the body it's very difficult to Avoid

training the eyes and and achieving a certain delicate control of the eyes if you are pursuing movement and that happens in the Athletics in very specific scenarios um but because I've been switching the scenario so much I I've gained more and more insight into the general aspect of it it sounds like it would also transfer into learning right the ability to think on a different level um is that is that something you've experienced I think So um I I've I've been saying I've been talking about this for many years now a few decades and I

think if your interest is within developing thought you have no better bet not mathematics not physics not not philosophy then movement I think this is the primary vehicle from for from which the brain evolved into being what it is and this is the primary fuel source for developing cognitive abilities it doesn't mean that you're going to be a Mathematician from doing movement but if you are examining your cognition in new scenarios all the time you'll discover that the person who is engaging in diverse movement scenarios in a methodological way not just chaotic will have a

much better chance of of addressing that new scenario there's two questions that come out of that and I think the first one's hopefully maybe not a short one but I'll ask it is movement meditation for you it it sounds Like it becomes there there's a overlap the word medit means nothing these days it's mentioned and by so many different people in so many different ways that it it becomes totally empty it has been abused the word so I'm afraid to use it movement can be in many ways and anti-ed meditation of A Sort as well

again I can I can present movement for commercial ways or for inspiration to Make a YouTube clip and to say how my movement is my meditation Etc but really if I have to hone all of myself in order to perform a certain movement then by achieving that movement I actually decrease the demands over my system over time so in reality it becomes anti meditation in that sense of being present and we must make sure that that doesn't happen hence my focus again on not just doing things well but doing things that you suck at all

the time It's a much better bet it's a much better way to address what really needs to address because if everything changes all the time then what is constant emerges from the water because that is all the time fluctuating and that is really I that is that presence that is that objective of meditation that many people try to hit that eye that stability that Stillness in the in the background of everything else that fluctuates so to Give an example I'll give example from bodybuilding someone will train will really focus on the muscle and squeeze and

perform the exercise mind muscle connection we've heard it a million times before but then someone who actually performs the same movement with 10 times the weight will not be focusing on that sensation of the muscle at all for example a powerlifter versus a bodybuilder and and you know that and and and that's that's A bit hinting of a certain quality that emerges there I can do a one arm handstand and I can think about whatever because I can do it well and if I can do it well I need to really Focus everything the first

weeks when I just got my one arm handstand that was a focus practice I wouldn't call it meditation but an extreme focused practice but after a while it becomes the opposite so those are just some thoughts about it now at the same time Now I'll I'll flip it to the other direction movement can be the real meditation in essence that can be a little bit critical of meditation as we know it seating meditation many people they are talk they have done a lot of seated meditation and practice presence and awareness but if you take them

and you try to put any kind of feedback on Focus you'll be surprised at the result an outside feedback for example take a stick and balance it on your fingers Everybody can do that pretty much for 30 seconds no problem take a advanced meditator have him do it for 30 seconds if he's successful tell him now do it for one hour without dropping the stick you'll discover that his Focus cannot be applied well into this new scenario and he will lose it after a few minutes one moment of lack of awareness and boom it falls

and that's for me touching the weakness of the container even seated meditation where if if You're truly interested in achieving present continuous presence regardless of scenario you are you have a better bet to do it through multiple containers and using some kind of a feedback where it's possible you said when referring to movement as the gateway to an optimized mind right so you use them the the example of you know becoming better a better thinker or mathematician you mentioned applying a specific methodology and I'm curious What that methodology is you said as long as you're

meth methodical or you're applying a specific methodology I don't want to quote you this is really the heart of my work this is really what most people don't know about my work they cannot appreciate it and because they will never know it from outside this is truly the essence of what I call movement practice I don't need to take my shoes off to count the number of people that I believe are addressing it Well from my point of view of course it's just my point of view why because some systems are all about the protocols

if you get the right protocol you get the result but this practice is all about error management it's not about the protocol you can I can give you all the protocols as people are doing and you still have no results whatsoever in terms of general movement development Etc because it's all about managing the daytoday problems that are arising Individually so for example in our online H platform that we offer people training there is no program you can get you you can't buy a program it's all individual and you are being monitored by a person on

the other side constantly receiving feedback which makes it very cers some very expensive and very difficult to do in terms of sending videos and being all the time being watched and being but it is the real practice and that is also something that Actually appears in almost everything also in bodybuilding for example you can give me your program it doesn't mean nothing it has many aspects of problem solving day to day that I need to learn how to do this is the order in the chaos and the way that I try to switch the task

and constr ruct the practice as I go along the way and I try to do the same with my students of course you make many mistakes but because my focus has been on it for many decades I I've I've I've gained certain insight into the this process and and I see that a lot of people that's where they fail they try to get certain protocols they just try to repeat the protocols whether it's you know chemical protocols whether it nutritional protocols whether it's a movement protocol it's just dead protocols it it gives something but the

real secret is not there especially in this practice the real secret is not there it's super individualized every Scenario changes and switches and it's never the same you never step into the same river twice you know I'm very curious about your childhood so in North America school is I'm sure you're familiar with somewhat about the North American schools did you grow up in in Israel yeah was your was your experience as a child one of of you know convention was it normal was it you know quote unquote normal meaning you went to like in America

you know you go to certain School or Canada I'm from Canada go to a certain School you learn the same curriculum as everybody else you line up in a line you get in trouble if you're not in line it's it's inside a box and I'm curious where the the inspiration for this depth of exploration and curiosity came from I think and um part of it is something that emanates from inside some combination some lucky combination of attributes I haven't been blessed with many physical attributes or That I would really could have used during my my

practice um but certain other attributes of way of thinking way of feeling certain sensitivity was there and the second part is proper environment for self-education and this my mother has been a big part of that instead of educating me she took care that I will educate myself which was a much smarter and and intuitive way for her she she didn't need to specifically think about It some of the things she did but other things she just naturally understood which allowed me to construct certain way of being which is very resilient is very autonomous and en

enabled me to to navigate my life I think in a better way in in many scenarios and this relates to what you mention all these rules and all these educational attempts that are being slapped on us which are actually robbing us the opportunity of developing the real skill behind everything for Example H if you tell me um not to lie as a parent you make me a slave even if I don't lie I not doing it from any motive of my own I'm doing it out of fear I'm doing it out of trying to please

Etc so this is not actually genuinely rising from me and occurring from the right place but opposite I've been now robbed of that opportunity to a large extent while if you create the conditions in which I will feel the stin of my lives naturally and alone then you Would educate me in a passive way much more deeply and will affect me for the rest of my life and I think that we receive certain opportunities of that sort but most of these opportunities are being stolen in modern culture in that regard hence we are growing into

these Machinery things which we we we view as normal these days and um it carries a lot of problems and at least on the other side you again at a certain point in life and with certain difficulties And and depression or sense of empty meaninglessness you are having the opportunity to regain that and that connects a lot to my practice I've heard one Steve Paxton said that he he he created this um contact improvisation this practice because he wanted to finish his physical development which he never was allowed to finish as a child so it's

very similar for me I I I I continue to create for myself the opportunities for self-education not by Reading the books and again getting the no no no don't do this do this Etc but by receiving opportunities to naturally feel and sense my mistakes and as well other areas which are more clicking into place so that has been present to a certain extent in my childhood as my mother didn't do much she didn't do all the wrong [ __ ] and and and she she gave me unconditional love that supported me and Asked me a

lot of questions and arose my curiosity that I have to dig and I have to find by myself and that later manifested into whatever I wanted it to manifest in my life and so Mom thank you very much and I think this is also a role for us as partners as wives husbands parents brothers sisters to to also support this because we all need that that self-education it's the best parenting advice I've ever heard and I'm going to Think about that a lot I have two young children in G my greatest um value in life

and I everything I do ultimately is is a self- exploration so that I can be better for them and that sounds like it's exactly what everyone should be doing to one give their themselves an opportunity to explore their emotions and their feelings and who they are and also for your children so thanks you that was that was awesome sure sure don't don't I I just want to offer one L Thing about it is of course this idea sounds great but when you go to apply it of course you will meet many difficulties good you should

deal with those difficulties for example how do I facilitate these scenarios for my child and this has to be struggled with this has to be contemplated this has to be pursued I don't want to offer a Solutions even when I have them because again I rob you the opportunity but if you wish to Really become a better parent you should devote time for this and this is the most precious thing that you can give to your child not money you can give your child your time that's the most precious thing this thought this care and

then you will discover that many of those conditions and those situations in which you allow the child to really receive that experience they involve some things that we often slap a negative context on and that's a huge challenge especially In North America but noways Western culture and unfortunately this is you see the difficulty for example of democracy dealing with certain certain instances these days certain occurrences we reach a point where this fake good that comes from a good orientation but have misled the good for something else it reached a the ceiling and now you have

to facilitate certain evils I would even dare to say in order to create the real good the Real good is not human moral good bad it is related to awareness more aware good more good less aware less good and that is often times require experiences for example experiencing hunger to a certain extent really develop something inside of us but we we've been robbed this opportunity most most of our lives and and this is something that of course I don't recommend you to Star your child but for example I remember a scenario Where my dad took

me on a walk in nature and I was really small and he miscalculated he thought it was a very short walk and it ended up being this six-hour walk and he didn't take food with him but I didn't experience it as something that he did to me because I realized he just made a mistake and now we are here and we have to finish this and this created a chain of events inside of me it only years after that I realized that such opportunities helped Me get something we used to go hunting with our parents

we used to experience the need to not move for many hours to be quiet to smell um to to to do very physically effortful things and these Evils are really necessary for certain growth certain self-education yet Society is removing that from from our front mirror right or from in front of us we just we simply can't and or making it harder and so thank you for sharing that I I will Definitely take that into consideration as I mentioned before we started recording Hope to come to your event coming up here in August and exclusively because

I want to be able to move at a level that my kids move and teach them how to move and pass it on to them because I just see the value I just see the value as you say in Awareness like awareness is the root of all change you know in order to make a shift we have to become aware of it and um yeah that's That's tremendous so I want to come back to you know what it would look like for someone sitting at home right now saying okay I want to start uh an

intentional movement practice I want to start Mo moving in a way that you would suggest to get get out of the box we'll say right or to start exploring the small frame okay the real answer people don't like to hear but that's the real real genuine answer I can give in this state of hearing this being inspired the only Answer can be education this is the only answer we can apply certain things and we can start to play with certain things but definitely the majority of our investment in this beginning phase is to study these

Concepts and these are very weird way of using our mind using our body using our awareness and it takes education um just like if you if I ask you about bodybuilding then I can you can give me the the simple Global gym workout three Times 8 to 12 or whatever and that would be immediate cool but the real answer if you wish to become involved with bodybuilding would be to educate yourself on so many different things and also at the same time start to practice and that's the answer the only answer that I can also

give so definitely a huge investment in the beginning in terms of Education which is rare difficult to find and then starting to experiment with simple things and I I I've provided a lot of free content over the years potent simple for people to to start to apply various little YouTube clips that you can watch and old blog post that you can read and and look at and post some of my students have downloaded all my Facebook posts over the years made made a like notebook from it there is a lot of information there that this

is the start of Education it's free it's available this is something that I put out there Has been other authors talking about movement people like Moshe felden chist I definitely recommend to to read and his writings he he was talking about this stuff you know more than half a century ago in in a very very developed way he was ahead ahead of the game totally and there has been other contemporaries but for me Moshe is very unique in the level of his thought of movement and and these things the level of application not always so

sometimes I Have some I have a feeling that a lot of the work has been Miss missed or or misunderstood or took another face to it but but I'm sure there are people who are doing a good job with that as well the thinking that basic the basic awareness that develops out of this education should be carried into our dayto day one of the first things is to observe the body for as long and as often as you can during the days and this is something like we spend A lot of time running Loops of

thoughts just endless thoughts of the same manner into of the past and of the future and and grinding water as we say with that a huge huge Improvement would be to start to notice the body body parts little by little as it becomes more elaborate you will start to experience this happens with usually a few years of practice a certain sensation of body Unity some kind of a general sensation of self that is very physical not me feeling my knee Or my hand and this is very transformative I think this is very important this sense

of self is a sense of movement is a sense of the body in motion and later it expands beyond the body as we know it as it continuing and this is something that can really improve so you can do it during your weightlifting you can do it during washing the dishes and you might feel oh I don't want to do it now because I have all these things to think About but if you truly observe you see that those Loops of thoughts don't arrive anywhere we we rarely have like constructive functional cognitive flow that reached

a conclusion and is useful for us most of the time is just grinding water and only contributing to negativity to holding on an attachment and all these problems that we mentioned before hence feeling the body while doing things is a very Powerful thing and immediately it can be applied and then on a more pragmatic level I recommend people to start to have certain practice around different positions of the body different postures like for example I talked a lot about squatting as a basic way to fold the whole body like this basic thing you you just

fold your body we don't fold the body we are mostly extended even when we sit even when we lie down and definitely when we stand up it's all the time Extended and hence like a very powerful thing would be to experience this full contraction in and I created some materials for that my squat challenge Etc it's very transformative and this is something simple not necessarily A starting point because there is no starting point but it's definitely a good place to start people with more shoulder issues hanging the same thing I created a lot of materials

for that and again we're doing pull-ups and we're Doing all these power exercise but hanging allows us again to elongate to use gravity to realign the whole structure it's very useful for the shoulders but not only and that's also something very nice to do another aspect that I put out is spinal waves since the spine is so is such a in basic element it is really Us in terms of movement if if you want to have a good a a good part that will affect a lot of movement it's the Spine and uh this is

a major problem by the way with the modern neutral spine phenomenon where we are actually eliminating movement from the spine hence we eliminate movement from the rest of the body and usually it's in an attempt to protect ourselves without realizing that the problem got created in the beginning because of lack of movement of certain aspects so you will not see back pain on the folk dancer from Slovakia because he took care of these little motions but you will see that back pain in the gymnast and you will see back pain in the couch potato one

is moving too much in a very specific and aggressive way the other is not moving enough and in between we have those people which are rare that are moving all the little segments and articulating them in different ways and the spinal wave is something very nice to start to construct and there is also these Materials on YouTube you can find from me you got a ton of amazing stuff on YouTube um yeah so you know like with like I as with everyone in the gym right it's so linear like we spoke in the beginning everything

is so linear there's seldom rotation involved certainly not anything that looks like a spinal wave and you start to lose movement and as you said if spine becomes tight your body's going to try to pick it up with the shoulder of the Hip and then those start becoming injured which is so common and so um yeah there there's there's tons there what does your current movement practice look like you know do you is it just like from morning to night whenever you get an opportunity or is it really intentional as far as like carving a

specific time of the day the practice with the years it started to glue was I always had these like sessions running like and I first I I Did like one session when I was still in school and later it became two sessions because I just that's that's what I do and then it became like these two 4our sessions which is like anyone that respects himself works for eight hours a day so I I went for that as as well little by little it started to become practice practice it's synonymous for me with the word living

I'm practicing because there is no living there is just an illusion of Living the practice brings me the hope and the connection to living when people think of the oh yeah I don't have time to do this I don't have time to do this but what do you have time for when you actually EX examine it there is no life there is just illusion of Life there there is these things that we have to do seemingly but we can do them while practicing while becoming more aware while becoming more in tune so a lot of

time people ask me how do you get the Time to read so much to do this it's like there there is plenty of time there is plenty of time I I'm practicing all every moment that I can sometimes during my sleep as my practice invades that I find myself practicing on some level and I think this is what's happen happened naturally with time and with love there is no you know Charles point of view about it there is no discipline there is just love to what you do or you can also say There is Obsession

it's a bit maybe sound negative but you're just you're just interested you're just just like you just want to do that yeah and that that's that's my practice so I use every opportunity even now but I'm I'm carrying certain awareness of my body certain awareness of my spine and I'm trying to bring some of that still into the presence because this podcast is part of my practice there is no life and after I finish I start to practice it is Part of my practice it is part of my way of being this is a something

that takes time to digest I think but it it is a good it's good to to try to address try to become more in tune with it if people feel that they need a break it is coming from a place of going back to sleep it is a yearning to go back to sleep to mindlessness and this yearning is natural because we train that mindlessness day in and day out with our iPhones with our social media with Everything that we do hence of course your whole being aligns to help you you wish to be mindless

let me help you now it's very difficult for you to be mindful every time you're mindless you're being rece you receive like a present it's easy it's fun it feels good but eventually it robs you of everything that you care about and the so that's for me the concept of practice I I also get tired sometimes from being involved but I I go back to That I Inspire myself back into that and I and I try to be more present and More in practice more in mode of practice has there been a maybe an influence

or uh an an event in your life that caused a big shift in your way of thinking or was it always just a progressive narrowing toward where you are now or was there some things in your life where was like oh my goodness this this is what it is it's a good question I think there is like a general movement a certain Momentum that builds through life which is more like very mild and quite linear but then there are these spikes and waves and and for a long time you can be in a certain state

of being and then all of a sudden you have a huge jump and I think often we mention either this steps and wave progression or the slow linear one but actually they're both occurring together so I had many events like that and I don't think they are like so unique I think I think we all we all Have events from which we can grow and use and just sometimes it's a bit more hidden it's a bit more tricky and this this concept is also related very much to suffering that suffering is there because it's very

useful because it's required I I think like the end wishing for the end of suffering is wishing for the end of everything suffering is the school that we are here for we are here to join this seminar we are not perfected you know some people offer They have reached reached it if you're here you haven't reached it and this is a schooling and the schooling occurs through certain suffering and difficulties that are being resolved and I think this might be a little misunderstanding of the end of suffering that's the end of suffering understanding that suffering

is part of how we evolve and do hence you go for the conscious suffering you engage with the suffering instead of waiting for it To fall on you and maybe even not being aware of how you manipulate it for your growth and that's real suffering that we should avoid so those are some events that some difficult events school and a kid or or something happens in your life or or a relationship related or business related and then if you're a practitioner you manipulate you manipulate everything you digest everything for your growth everything is food everything

is useful brilliant have You ever experienced in maybe the last you know call it 20 years any injuries or any joint pain very little very little because my secret is that I'm a big coward hence I I've been able to always avoid the things that next to me people in martial arts or the military or anywhere that I was in in competitive Athletics Etc I saw saw people getting injured and I think this is also part of my limiting factor that I I'm very resistant to certain change and had to Work on that over the

years but it also protected me tremendously I've experienced some injuries here there but relatively for what I did and for the time I did it and for the amount of practice like I'm saying many many hours a day every day that's what I do my body is a body of a child that has been also a big eye opener as I saw like people over the years degrade and have difficulties and then other students of mine I saw a difference I saw something Else that is there to balance it out to protect um and and

that that is certain attribute of it for me one of the proper practices the reason is not the usual reason that people think of and usually we are mentioning longevity and we mention Health two words that I have a bit of a nausea from and and have t got tired from because this longevity it comes on a cost it comes with a cost it it comes it comes with a certain price that you pay as an Individual in your Evolution and also it comes as the cost of the global of the of the the major

the big pool if you survive long somebody else doesn't there is always a cost and the other thing is like this perfect health but sometimes we need to actually damage our health to get certain certain progression certain attributes if we are trying to Aspire for perfect health we are moving Against The Grain because from the moment we are born we are dying we are in a constant death we are aging and dying we are not living we are dying so hence this immediately creates a collision and immediately creates a problem that start slowly slowly to

build up to build up to build up look at for example for example my beard my white beard when I when I got a few white hairs I could I could paint them black but eventually my whole beard will turn White and now I have to paint it daily and to keep it in that shape and underneath the surface it is white but I hide it let's say I I am able to hide but other aspects will spill out so my skin will wrinkle so I hide that another aspect will come out my eyes will

deteriorate and you see the quality of the eyes in older people everything you are just creating a resistance and Eventually it will eat you up eventually it will build up to huge magnitude what I'm saying is I don't I don't say abandon this let it wash over you let it degrade you take care of yourself but know a limit health is not a good epone to focus on neither is longevity anyone that does that and put all the eggs in this baset will eventually from basic logic as I said will pay the price because in

this game we all go to the same spot and we all lose that game but If your game is different you might get away with it you might get away with it a certain growth a certain progression using your years until the last moment and who knows maybe even Beyond in a certain aspect of development so for me this is much more powerful I get a lot of health benefit from my practice Yeah but I also know when to say enough this is a little bit of unhealthy habits are very healthy yeah this is an

ex that's a good example of of the container creates The demands right so if if there is no container there's no demands if your aspiration is just Health then it's like well based on what criteria right so if if you're in your case you have a you have a demand that you place on yourself and that so for example if I'm competing in bodybuilding or if I'm coming to train with you in three weeks I'm putting a demand on myself that allows me to uplevel everything I do uh in every area Right so I'm going

to pay attention to how I sleep how I hydrate how I nourish how how I recover and that's an optimized living experience but it's moving toward this worthy ideal in this container to use your term you beautifully I I wish more people would be able to conceptualize such things so so quickly and so clearly because we depend on this understanding we don't we don't have bad intentions but we end up in Hell paved With good intentions as they say and this is important for us just live to the fullest in what you're passionate about and

I love that you said uh Obsession can sometimes be misconstrued it's not misconstrued it's only Mis con by people who don't understand what we do you know it's it has to be Obsession to take it to the level that you do and that I did right and and I didn't see it as Obsession like this is the only thing I like I just love this this is what I Want to do yeah that's awesome yeah and even the point where you crash and burn at a certain point is needed but for you to make the

next metamorphosis and change but if not if all you wish to do is bodybuilding what happens now you're done game over and that's that means that that the proper phase change and shift did not occur you the practice didn't prepare you for the next phase important to do and to address in the way that we practice and and in my Experience I'm curious if you would agree with this the reason that people aren't allowed to go through the metamorphosis is they never allow thems to be fully submersed in the like I was able to leave

bodybuilding knowing I'd left it on the table because I gave it all I gave it my all right when I was there I was 100% submersed and uh most people are not most people are are you know halfway in halfway out they're uncertain and that's what I think leaves The the degree of just unsettled business right unfinished business I want to do more and they're not able to leave it's almost like it becomes their passion becomes their Nemesis maybe it is maybe it is but maybe it is not maybe it's because you have other aspects

to your yourself which somehow along the way you've continued to develop and promote a way of being first I am a human being I don't need the practice to be human I I'm I'm already good I'm here I'm here this thing to practice in order to be but in essence not as being being present but to get the V I am okay this is wrong to practice to be a bodybuilder to gain your humanity is wrong you are already human then you engage with this practice later you might engage with another practice and the Common

Thread is your Humanity for me this is synonymous with movement synonymous with practice is something that we have to carry we have to Connect to that so I also went through this transformation and started with acrobatic movements and bodybuilding and and doing and and being busy with first beautiful body then beautiful movements and then eventually you don't want you do want to do ugly movements why because as we see in art what goes beyond Beauty ugliness that's the next level so you find things you beautiful that you you thought they were ugly and they were

empty and you know all of a sudden your Whole your whole point of view transforms I think like again in the way that we are educated we are being pushed into into being just that thing that we practice instead of realizing we are practicing ourselves using this in bodybuilding it's a known route very similar to like certain Olympic sports you know that you can do it up to a certain age and that actually helps because it's in the back of your mind from day one but then other the other Places I find people get stuck

on way worse even though of course I can give you the example of the dried prun bodybuilders who are have the body of a you know in a phase of a dry prune in their 80s it's a bit sad not because it's not a good practice it's because is this the only practice is this the only thing that you hang on to because one day after and and you're gone just like just like anyone else and that was the only experience that you gleaned out of Life that was the only you know thing so I

think this this can be limited that this can be limiting and can be limited I was very blessed when I first started training to uh meet and you know sort of be mentored by a man who was uh at the time an 85y old Japanese man who trained twice day own the gym that I uh trained in and he he built all the equipment by hand he was a welder and uh to to see his passion and at 85 years old he'd be running across the gym to answer the Phone and you know his ability

to move and you know still lift you know I think he was 130 pounds or something like that still lifting 185 pounds over his head uh it was just just phenomenal to me and and so to watch his how it became part of his identity I I think really impacted me as a person because I'd never experienced someone with that level of passion and that level of of depth and and who who just truly live lived and loved and embodied What it was it was a really great I just would sit back and observe and

you unfortunately the man ended up losing his gym because he was so old that people start started just coming and not paying him but it was a great learning opportunity for me to experience someone who had spent 60 years or more doing the exact same thing and still as you say he still loved it but he still he still Fel still felt like a kid at play and uh yeah that really feel was like I can't I Think certainly for me something to Aspire to and it doesn't have to be in that bodybuilding state but

it's just like the joy and and the Vitality that still existed at 85 and 87 I think when he lost his gym was just um just remarkable and it's just inspirational for me this is yeah this is the kind of example sometimes that really go deep even without realizing it back then sometimes only later on I would offer for you to dig inside yourself and ask What inside then is still the same driving forces that are happening today as they happened back then and you will discover something much more precious than bodybuilding or podcasting or

whatever yeah and and and that that thing is often not not researched it's just taken for granted it's like I'm I'm I'm a successful guy so I go for the next success like for example you have these gymnasts often ex gymnast and they Always become businessmen or in Israel the special op units that are graduating from the military they always become these hyper Hightech successful guys or Doctors medical doctors why the difficulty of the way so the difficulty is now you're master and you're a slave that's not a good orientation just to go for it

for sake of difficulty but but is it is it perhaps the pursuit of challenge right it's like the so for that I I do That all the time it's like so I want to do things because I think it's exploring the the ledge of of what I'm capable of that's very different because if you understand what you just said at the pursuit of the challenge for what for self growth and development yeah so the real master is you you are supposed to gain something out of these challenges I can have you run marathons I can

have you do 24hour of burpees the fact it's difficult doesn't mean we should do it Because it's difficult but we should pursue challenges for growth for our self-education it looks very similar one is an 80-year-old bodybuilder and one is an 80y old bodybuilder and inside you don't know which one of them did the real practice and really gained something inside this humanity and inner growth a development of the totality of that person and another just did bodybuilding and pursued the certain development of the body Period and it's very different we that's why I say it's

it's a faceless practice because you won't see from the face of it what I'm actually doing inside one person does handstand and get handstand the other person does handstand become enlightened the woman sitting in the supermarket sits eight hours a day on her ass and gets depressed and a page and a small paycheck the monk sits eight hours a day and become enlightened it looks the Same but what we do inside is the real important this unofficial practice and that's related to this concept that's why difficulties are there that's why suffering should be Cho chosen

to a certain extent should be embraced that's that's beautiful and that that was a learning opportunity for me during my life is um when you when you choose it when it's the I get to mindset versus the I have to mindset it completely changes the entire experience and so I Think for me it was is what do you choose and just as you said is like you're you're going to suffer either suffering is going to exper it's going to experience you or you're going to choose it um I think that's an amazing amazing um piece

of advice yeah I hope that it it helps those who listen you're a wise man EO I really appreciate you making the time um this is an incredible conversation I I value that so much um we will link to Your website your social media and is there any other message you want to leave in parting no yeah I think we covered a lot of beautiful aspect I would just like to promote more more practice more personal practice not my practice your practice each person's practice in way of in a way of being in a way

of becoming um I think this is missing we replaced it first with religions and we replaced it with all kinds of practices but not the practice As it should be this concept I think is very powerful and also very modern and and very conceptual which make it sometimes very difficult something that I I I view as purely good because it brings more awareness more more presence as a society we gain the benefit as as parents as As Leaders as Educators the more we support is the better we do yeah sometimes I feel this is lost

inside the big offerings that are around already it feels like childlike curiosity or or Exploration is what that that's what it sounds like you're saying to me I don't know if that that feels accurate it's definitely a huge part of it is this beginner freshness this this childlike freshness the experience of the first time because it is the first time it is always the first time there is not the same river twice so that that that quality is definitely a quality of the practitioner of the one who is going through his life who is present

in his Life and and and a result of again a result of your difficulties this cannot be just arrived at like this it it cannot be there because you heard this concept this must be unfolded into you into every cell and how only through practicing so this podcast or or a book or anything is just is is nothing it's it's just very very mild arrow pointing at a certain direction the actual becoming is this dressing the situations dressing The containers using them and transforming ourselves each time a little bit more each time in a little

different way every moment of our days can be can be used if you if you practice this state of mind and this is important powerful transformative in the way that I see it youo thank you very much truly incredible thank you Ben hey thanks so much for joining me here on the muscle intelligence podcast ladies and gents I hope you enjoy my Conversation with Ido so much wisdom I'm gonna go back and listen again and definitely plan to have him back on the podcast and go a little bit deeper maybe I'll be so lucky to

do one if I get to join him in Germany for his movement Camp which is up you can check out EO at edor portal.com you can check out on Facebook and Instagram where he's very very um present and posting often just incredible wisdom around movement and the insights he has in his movement Practice muscle intelligence is about ultimately empowering you with a knowledge and skill set to show up as the best version of yourself and sometimes in life we're not exposed to challenge we're not exposed to the opportunity to grow as Ido spoke about in

this podcast humans need challenge we need to discover for ourselves what we're capable of and too often we're put into this container that is maybe safe and maybe prevents us from learning About who we are and what we're capable of and then we start developing inadequacies or fear or you know lack of self-confidence because we've never developed our own thoughts our own capabilities for ourselves uh and that's one of the great missions of musle intelligence is to intentionally expose you to not only the greatest Minds in the world but also the greatest practices in the

world to allow you to step into who you are step into Who your soul knows you are so if this stuff resonates with you uh don't forget to follow muscle intelligence also on Instagram and follow muscle Intelligence on Facebook you can jump in the private Facebook group that ultimately is um supporting you and living your greatest life in a body of love thank you to our sponsors for today or organifi organifi.com muscle thanks guys appreciate you being here and we will see you next Time thank you so much for tuning in to muscle intelligence if

you enjoyed today's episode please be sure to share it with at least one person you know make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode this podcast is for information purposes only the statements and views on this podcast are not medical advice this podcast including Ben pulski and the producers disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information Contained herein opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests this podcast does not make any representations or warranties about Guest qualifications or

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