SHOCKING - Hanuman Didn’t Have a Gada? Ramayana Stories Retold Like Never Before with Ami Ganatra

J Shri Ram J J Shri Raman is one of those stories which probably every Hindu or every Indian knows because there's a lot of rumor widespread rumor about SI G's character just like the king is responsible to the citizens a queen is also responsible to the citizens do you think we would talk about SI the way we do right now so the AG parika is keeping AG as the witness and making a statement about your Character Shri is broken he's madly in love with his wife if hey tree have you seen my wife who used

to love you so much please tell me if you have seen her anywhere I cannot live without her wife is he look at a mountain and he be like please tell me somebody please tell me where my wife is gone so nowadays there is a lot of stress on okay date the ramayan when did it happen date the Mahabharat I think that's important I'm not going to dismiss any of those Efforts but [Music] is there something that you that it's in ramayana that goes against what you believe I would have had a very different answer

if You' asked me this few years ago H tell me I would have said yeah lots of things the social practices the way uh Shri Ram thinks about himself versus his wife versus the society uh the way he's willing to give up his wife just because the society Said said something and all of that I think that's what I would have said and I would said now in today's day and age these things don't really hold today I don't believe that and what was what made you change your perception studying the text for what it

is see what happens Rodrigo while everybody in India or Hindus by a large they think they know Mahabharat ramayan but unfortunately most of us have stopped reading reading the text for What they are and when I say the text I mean the authentic original waliki ramayan and vas ret Mahabharat these are the two texts these are the source texts okay now of course there are questions around what we have is it the original can we call it the authentic well that nobody will ever know but it is generally accepted that this is the key Source

from which everything else is coming so one is we don't read our authentic texts one second is because we Are such an old civilization a lot of Storytelling has happened over and above those texts right and that is still continuing that is still continuing and there has never been a phase in the Indian history where anybody has stood up and said oh this is what it is and nobody can talk anything else Beyond this this is just one truth so I think the reason we don't know is because we don't read and we don't differentiate

between history fiction retelling and The original and if you read the original I think it's very clear what is the anchor of virtue it's very clear it's very clear what is Dharma adharma it is very clear why certain people are considered good and why certain people are considered bad and it is very clear what value systems Define the Indian culture which has G gone on which has survived for so long so what you say is that so people don't read fully and also as it is Passed through generations there's a lot of stories you know

and then it becomes there's a a bit distorted right distorted um and maybe you can help us like when you were um researching for ramayana what was something that was your biggest surprise that youed so I think there were some trivial ones and some non-trivial ones okay now I'm curious so um do you know Hanuman G yeah so Lord Hanuman yeah and if you if I've Told you Lord Hanuman you will always picture him with his weapon which is the G yeah that's how we remember Hanuman G that's how most of our pictures are drawn

and the the images in our temples at least the recent ones all have the the Gada now when when we were reading the ramayan we realize that it does not mention the gadada at all okay so the vanas the tribe to which Hanuman G belongs in typical Nar ation And even when they show it on the television they're all shown with this weapon called the gadada right but there is no gadada with any of the vanas in the ramayan of course it doesn't matter because sometimes imagery changes with time right so I don't think it's

such a such a non-trivial point I think it's quite a trivial thing but the beauty of it is to see how the imagery changes over time so if you go back to temples of Hanan probably 800 years ago 900 Years ago you don't find gas gdas have probably been associated with the image of Hanuman G with greater defecation of his and probably in the last 500 600 years but that happens that also shows how the faith and the belief system evolves changes transforms right so again I have to clarify this just in case somebody gets

it wrong I'm not saying that we should stop worshiping Hanuman G with g no no today we see him that way that's perfectly okay because The belief system the worship system and history they don't have to merge all the time your belief system your devotion is based on whichever Guru you follow and where they got their strength from on what image could they meditate on and derive that devotion that bti from and that's perfectly okay so you see your gods in your image right for example if we if we think of the west um you'll

always see Jesus as Caucasian yeah but he was not a ccasian he was a Jew right more Middle Eastern but if you go to Africa you will see Jesus looking like Africans why is that because we see gods in our image once upon a time when the Hindu Faith was more widespread even in the Southeast you have paintings from Thailand Cambodia of the ramayana and you see how Shri Ram looks there not the Shri Ram we are used to seeing right he's like one of the Asian tribes he has those looks so the imagery changes

what Is important is what is the dedication and with with what devotion and with what emotion are those imageries presented to us but again it is very important to keep in mind that the belief system may be different from the ithas which is history or ithas is not exactly history but for the sake of ithas so history is documentation of the past right ithas is also documentation of the past purv but narrated in a Kata format in a more Storytelling format because at that time it was more oral tradition right you had to communicate the

meaning or the the lessons from whatever happened in the life of your ancestors so that is the reason it was communicated in a certain way what was not important in ithas is timelines whereas in history timelines are the most important right you have to know yeah ad BC whatever whatever you will not find these timelines so to say in the ithas Which is Mahabharat and ramay what is important is again given in the definition ofas that meaning the ithas is is preserved and trans transmitted over time why to give us lessons of our life so

nowadays there is a lot of stress on okay date the ramayan when did it happen date the mahab I think that's important I'm not going to dismiss any of those efforts but for the indic mind it didn't matter What mattered was we know we we Genuinely believe Shri Ram is our ancestor because our Ries tell us that there are only two books which are history or ithas Mahabharat and ramayan they have not called anything else as IAS there is a very clear classification we have what is called the shti and spti shti are the way

upanishad yeah smis are everything else because smes are something which are transmitted from memory so you have the Dharma shastras which also tell you dos and don'ts laws To live your life in the society that is the dhash shastras you have what is called the daranas dashas are sort of philosophy you've heard of AD yoga Sanka all of that those are the philosophical uh schools you have ithas and you have puranas puranas is what I would still classify as the mythology because they have a lot of metaphors of the cosmos yeah told to us in

a format that makes sense to us also one of the U one of the Goals of panic mythological story so to say is to instill faith it has history it has documentation of some of the events which might have happened then it definitely has documentation of some of the lineages but the main goal is not history so to say the main goal is faith maybe you can we can start by understanding what are some a layer of um ramayana that not many people are aware but it's very rich in terms of uh Uh lessons H

okay so um ramayan is one of those stories which probably every Hindu or every Indian knows okay because one is the waliki ramayan which I kept saying is the IAS in every region of India in every language of India some retelling of ramayan has happened okay but by and large the understanding of ramayan is that Ram shiram is very strict About which is the right thing to do and which is the wrong thing to do including the means so for him the goal matters yes but the means are also Al equally important and come what

may he will never compromise on the means that is what is usually told and it is not completely wrong but I think that is a very partial understanding of it especially when we see his uh when we see his his actions in the ramayan and uh let me talk about probably two Incidents yeah which will bring this out even better good this is so interesting again not to say that he doesn't care for the means but is not as people think it is because you and the reason I'm bringing this out is if you talk

to most Indians they'll say oh for Shri goal is secondary the means are the most important oh to get to those goals but for Krishna goal matters for that any means is fine he's willing to distort the means this is how they Usually put it but again both these understanding understandings are wrong when you actually go back to the ithas because you can't be so rigid in life right the goal matters and sometimes for the goal to be achieved you have to probably do the right thing to do the means are not important the goal

is and to get to that goal you have to do what you need to do that is what a king is supposed to do again we are talking about SRI Ram as a leader he's not any Normal person what is applicable on a normal person does not apply on Raam because for leaders they have to take decisions which set the right precedent okay so there is an incident in uh ramayan where there is this um Warner King called Wali and Wali and sugri now sugri is in partnership with SRI okay and sugri wife and Kingdom

were taken away by W okay there was some misunderstanding amongst them and they are brothers W and sugriva brothers but The biggest crime which W did was to forcibly take away the wife of sugri while sugri was still alive okay so and anyways Vali always wanted to kill sugri because in his mind he thought this is my enemy not unjustifiably he used to think so now when Shri RAM and sugri became friends the their pact was that SRI Ram will help sugri get his wife back and his kingdom back and in return sugri will do

the same he'll help find Si G For Sri Ram so at that time SI was already kidnapped by ra okay okay so that had happened so sham didn't know where I was trying to understand where that comes yeah yeah so didn't know where it was this is after the kidnapping after Si's kidnapping by raan so sham says fine let's pluck out the low most low hanging fruit so what was the most low hanging fruit because they didn't even know where SI was to get sugri his wife And the kingdom and once sugri has the kingdom

the people are with him the Army is with him so even the next job of finding SI becomes easier right so they decide to kill Wali now now W is an extremely strong uh King and an extremely strong person and Sham does not have a direct enemity with him right so he's not going to challenge because V will not fight so what they decide is that sugri will challenge W to a duel and it could only Be a duel it couldn't be a war because these guys had no Army no the entire Army was with

W that would have been a stupid thing to do so they couldn't have called for an open War right so he said okay sugri you go and challenge Wali and when so sugri does that he goes challenges W and B is like this brother of Mine He's a fool I'm going to kill him now and he comes to fight and both of them get into a duel and what shiram does is that he's Standing somewhere hiding in the forest okay and when these two guys are fighting he shoots an arrow at w and W falls

down okay it's he's fatally injured because sham has that momentum that strength he's one of the best archers in the Indian history ever okay so w falls down and now in one way this was cheating right you you you you shot at somebody from behind the person was not fighting with you yeah so a lot of us have been very uncomfortable with This why because we think think yeah Krishna could have done that but Shri Ram can't do this right because of the image of Shri Ram we have he's called the marada Pam marada pusham

is the one who will always stay within limits who knows his boundaries who knows what is the right thing to do and will stay within that so that is his image so for us to make sense of this story with his reputation is difficult because of that what has happened is that people come up With different stories to justify okay so they'll say things like actually Vali had a superp power and that superp power was that if anybody fought with him from the front he would take away the person's energy half energy now that is

already a wrong Advantage right exactly so then take then you can kill him from behind interes or some people say this is the only sin which SRI Ram committed in his life and hence in the Krishna JMA he was killed the way he was okay so They already consider him guilty that this is the wrong thing to do now let's go back to waliki ramayan and see what Shri Ram himself talks about this incident it's mindblowing so W's fallen down and W's like what happened who just hit me from behind and this way like wanting

to kill me and he's like he he's wondering what's going on here and he's going to die anytime so SRI Ram lakshman everybody else they go to him and his His own people have come trying to to see what has happened now our King is dying and valali is very angry when he says he sees sham because now he knows what happened he realizes that this person has killed me from behind so he says why did you do this I thought you were a very honorable man but clearly you're not you just you just dress

like a like an honorable man there is absolutely no virtue in you because otherwise why would you kill me like This I am not your enemy and still you hit me when I was fighting with somebody else this is clearly something very sinful that you did it is not a right thing to do very non virtuous thing to do and uh SRI Ram says you are teaching me about virtue and wise do you know what is virtue and wise so the the word they use is do you know what is Dharma and do you know

what is Raj Dharma and why Raja because Wali was the king and Sham also comes from the royal family he Was the prince who was going to become the King right so he says do you know what is Dharma do you know what is the right what is right and wrong in virtue and wives if you really knew what was virtue and wise and if you really knew if you were aware of the Raj Dharma Raj Dharma is the is the right thing to do for the Kings the right policy for the kings that is

Raj Dharma if you knew Raj Dharma you would know that what I have done the right thing to do even this Question wouldn't have come in your mind oh wow and then Shri Ram says but still you have this question let me answer it for you sham says per our scriptures a man who lusts his mother his sister his younger brother's wife is meant to only be given one punishment and that is punishment by death a man who lusts and puts his hand on his mother's sister and younger brother's wife now why younger brother's Wife

because he says a younger brother is like a son to you so his wife is like your daughter-in-law she's like your daughter how dare you wife violate her like this while your younger brother is still alive it's one of the most unpardonable pardonable sins to do this is what our scriptures say and you did that so if you really knew what was right and wrong you would have given the same punishment to anybody else so I was not fighting with you to follow the Rules of the war that I can kill you from front or

I can kill you from behind I was punishing you for the heinous violation that you have done because the scriptures recommend only death for a person like that now imagine if you want to keep some sanity of how do I say um right Behavior into the society you cannot be lusting your mother and your sister and your daughter-in-law right that cannot be otherwise what are we talking about what Society are we Talking about we are completely uncivilized so this is one of those core values of a civilized society and Vali had violated that core value

so sham says what I did was what a king would have ideally done for somebody who had done a crime like you and in case you're questioning whether I have the right to do that remember that I come from the family of the iwaku where he comes from the family that he comes from and we are the chakravartin chakravartin means we Are there are other kings around but we are the head of them all okay so we have that Authority accepted by all of you and while I may not be on the throne I'm the

representative of the king with that Authority I have done to you what I have done to you now if you accept your mistake you won't suffer you won't go to hell he's saying okay if you accept your mistake but if you don't accept it's only going to cause you make more pain because you are clearly in Violation of Dharma so what I have done is the right thing to do you don't tell me what is right or wrong because you yourself don't you have never known it now this is so different from what people are

are used to seeing Shri as right and this also shows what is that value that really matters and to preserve that value which is important for a civilized society the leader needs to do whatever he needs to do so this is one of those stories wow it's Fascinating I was just so focusing trying to understand what was the end like and yeah it makes sense so maybe there's a lot there's a lot of stories like this that there's some misconceptions or people are not aware so I want to continue in this line of trying to

understand not what is more uh what everyone talks about but maybe what is behind Ramana that not many people know and maybe another another angle is to understand who is an one character of Ramayana that not many people talk about it but also has a lot of uh we can learn a lot of lessons from it m uh I think one such character I mean people know him okay his name is bhat his uh okay we can talk about bhat or lakman but I would I would still pick lakshman over Bharat to answer your question

lakshman is the younger brother of Shri RAM and he's very devoted to Shri RAM and that is his role okay in one sense he doesn't shine across as any Other character but if but for lakshman Sri Ram wouldn't have been Shri RAM and the value of lakman becomes the most evident during that phase when Sith G is kidnapped because in crisis is where the moral value system and the conviction and what the person is really shines out right so what happens is after sit's kidnapped Shri is broken he's completely broken he doesn't know what to

do he's madly in love with his wife if you see the relationship of Sri and Si G that Has been described in RA in Raman oh my God I don't think I have read anything more romantic than that it's just so beautiful it's so romantic so he's completely distraught after sa's kidnap he's running around he look at a tree which probably SI liked or the flowers which SI liked and he's like hey um kadumba kadum is a name of a tree and kadum has lovely flowers so he'll say hey kadumba hey tree have you seen

my wife Who used to love you so much please tell me if you have seen her anywhere I cannot live without her he look at a a lion and he'll be like hey lion don't be afraid of me I'm not going to kill you don't worry just tell me where my wife is he look at a mountain and he be like please tell me somebody please tell me where my wife is gone please direct me to where she is now of course none of them are going to talk right he's just losing it and he

becomes so angry and He's like if none of you are going to tell me where my wife is trust me if I don't see her soon I'm going to destroy this whole world he he's just out of control because he's so dist distraught I'm using the same word again anyways at that point lakshman is the only one who's holding him together and and in every way he appeals to him intellect ually he appeals to him emotionally he appeals to to him you know sometimes we have to give a Negative push to get a person out

of his to get a person back to his senses because sometimes you get into this negative cycle of thoughts right and if you have to say something so outrageously bad that the person comes back into his he's done that as well so at at one point uh during the war when sham when the ra Ran's son indrajit he creates a hallucinate ation of killing satha okay so she's alive but he creates a hallucination and a message it's PSY Psyclops right as happens today as well the psychological warfare that goes on so he behaves as if

she's dead and the vanas get to know that she's dead they come running and they tell Shri that your wife is dead now imagine all this effort to find her come all the way to Lanka which was like 100 yojan is about how do I say it used to be like it it is thought today as one Ean is about 8 Miles yeah so about 100 800 miles they have traveled and how they got that Bridge made and all of that right they reach Lanka fight for all these days and suddenly they're told the goal

the very goal for which you've come here is not there anymore SI is already dead sham faints because he's like what am I never going to see my wife again I came all the way just for her how will I ever go back to aodha without her I don't want anything I'm just going to give up my life if she's not here I don't want to live Anymore so he just loses it he is depressed he faints he falls there again this is so much unlike the image of Shri Ram people have right but he's

he's just he has lived every emotion as deeply or more deeply than anybody of us can and in spite of living all those emotions feeling all those emotions when the decision to take a when the time to take a decision came he did not let the emotions overpower him but anyways that's a different story so here Lakshman of course lakshman is distraught but he has to get SRI Ram into a position where Shri Ram wants to fight again you know what he says it's very interesting it's a it's a when I read it for the

first time I like what is lakman saying he says Ram I think what we have done has been wrong has been completely wrong all this while we believe dma we should follow Dharma we should follow virtue and all of that I believe all that is not true People tell us that you get what you sow you do you reap what you sow if you do good actions you get good things I don't believe in all of it because why is ran getting all the luxuries otherwise right so I believe if you have the power if

you have the strength if you have the shy on and the prosperity and the money only then even the virtues follow you and you get the right thing you get the you get the good results of Your Action it has Nothing to do with good or bad it has nothing to do with Dharma Dharma and he says you left your father's uh Kingdom even though you should have fought for it then if you would have stayed there and fought for it because clearly that was unjust if you would have stayed there and fought for it

all this wouldn't have happened so what you did was wrong what you did was wrong and hence we are facing all of this now so something on This lines yeah and then I mean so clearly he didn't mean any of it but he wanted to he knows sham the thing is he knows Shri Ram so well that if SRI is told something like this he will completely get up and say no that's not right it cannot be that there is nothing like virtue and wise irrespective of what the outcome is and a person has to

follow or should follow virtue as far as possible right so he knows what sham believes in so this time he's he's Trying a negative tactic because what else do you tell a man who has just lost his wife for he him who came all the way for for her he came all the way here right if he tells us oh don't worry everything is for the good what will happen that guy will be like are you crazy everything's for the good I just lost my wife right or oh don't worry we will keep fighting we

will defeat raan but what's the point the wife is gone right so none of the positive tactics Could have had any impact at that point in time so what do you do you say something negative so clearly SRI Ram the the desperation that he was in I mean it hadn't gone away but while lakshman was saying all this thankfully he was getting slightly better but what something nice happened after that that vibhishan came and he said no no no this was all false so it already helped but for lakshman to play that role and to

Know when to use positive reinforcement when to hold him to together when to not say anything when to say things to provoke him so that he doesn't lose himself right it requires one a lot of devotion second deep understanding and dedication to the other person and that is lakshman in fact after they go back after uh sa G is gotten back and ravan is defeated and vishan is made the king and they go back to uh aodha and SRI Ram is cor coronated the king he wants Lakshman to be his Deputy but lakma says no

all I want to do is serve you and serve aodha I don't need a position for that because the position will bind me into certain duties which are beyond all of this I don't want any of this I don't care for the Authority for me it is you who matters so I'm here for you so that is the devotion and dedication that lakshman has Ram could be Ram only because lakman is lakman wow such a such A fantastic story um I love so what I love one is about uh well a lot of learnings I'm

getting so I'm excited and I want to share with you so one is about uh R was was feeling all the emotions in that moment so it teaches like whenever there's a situation feel the feel your emotions but never but then whenever comes the time to to decide you need to stay present and stay focused so that is something that I I learned from what you Said and second is luxman um his level of devotion and commitment that he he was present and he was understanding how he would get him in the direction that he

wanted um but he using different I'll give you another example of it now you're excited let's go so lakman was in what we would call in today's terms very very emotionally intelligent very very emot intelligent so when uh very much in the beginning when Shri was told by his stepmother and Father that you need to go to the forest for 14 years right lakman is not happy SRI Ram doesn't object he says okay aamu fine I'll go because the father has said I'll go and of course he has his own reasons now that's another um

episode which shows the profound wisdom that sham has but I'm not going in that one I'm talking about lakman after I want to go there because it's my curiosity but let's go sure so lakman he is very angry lakman tells SRI you're being a coward You have done nothing wrong what are you being punished for our stepmother some whim she has had and she wants you out of the Kingdom that's not even fair you are going to be crowned the king the people wanted you as the king now suddenly they have decided just a few

hours before your coronation to send you away this is not right for a warrior the right thing to do is to fight for what is Right EX so you shouldn't agree to what is being Meed out to you but sham Says no no no I'm going and he says fine I accept it but I will go with you I will not let you go alone so he decides to come with shiram okay now SI G shiram and lakman theyve gone to the forest and um one day the Chari or and the minister suant he comes

to drop them then finally they cross the river and after two days they finally alone three of them in a deep forest okay they're walking all the civilization the cities have gone away and they're in the forest and that night While they are sitting and Si has slept by then Shri RAM and lakman are talking and the for Shri there's another objective used it is called purush sagna purush sarna means somebody who understands human beings very well he reads them he sees through them he understands their motivations intentions value systems all of that okay he

understands that very well why they are acting the way they do so clearly he knows that about his parents also now he May still respect them and all that but a person who is a purush saraga will know people around him as well in and himself as well so that night Shri is a little um upset if I may because uh when the decision was conveyed to him that you have to go away he did not fight it right he came and that day that night when they're sitting SRI Ram says that I know my

father is very unhappy must be very unhappy I'm sure he'll not be able to sleep without me because for Dash SRI Ram was everything his his heart was into Shri Ram so he says I'm sure my father would have been very happy I hope he lives through till we come back all of that and he says but you know what for a person who for the sake of lust gives up Dharma so who for the sake of Kama gives up D so basically lust for his younger wife that's what he's trying to say gives up

the right thing to do what was the right thing to do he had Dash G had Committed to the people right that I'm going to make Ram the king now just because the younger wife got angry and said no no you have promised to me and you have to do all of that he changed and he just did not say anything and let the wife have his way so he says a a man who for the sake of lust gives up virtue Falls this is exactly what has come to my father because who else in

the right mind would send away of obedient an Obedient son like me he clearly understands the Dynamics between his parents the Stepmother's mothers and all of that and in the previous chapters that Dynamics is very clearly given of the of how K was always favored by Dash to the extent that SRI Ram's own mother felt very neglected and in fact even insulted and humiliated and completely ignored by Dhat who's the father of Shri right so those Dynamics have already been Explained to us so this then makes sense where he's saying that how he has always

favored the younger wife and for that younger more beautiful wife he's not able to even see what is the right thing to do not right thing to do and all that so he's saying all that and he he says that I'm really worried what will happen to our mothers because clearly Ki the stepmother is not going to stop here she will do everything to harass our mothers also and while I know that bhat who K's Son will do the right thing I don't know at that point what if he also conspires with his mother exactly

so what will happen and our father probably will die anyways because of this so I'm very upset I'm very concerned you please go back you must go back this is I feel concerned you must go back now at that point see lakshman was the one who initially was like this is not right the right thing to do you should not accept we have to go all of that but at this Point he realizes that Shri Ram is weak there is a slight emotional weakness in him at this point in time hence he's saying all of

that ideally if we were there what we would have said see I told you this is exactly what would have happened CH let us all go back why should I go back alone all of that right yeah yeah you right I'll go back but at that point lakman just lets him say whatever he wants to he doesn't say see I told you He doesn't say no no no Our Father did the wrong thing nothing like that he says by I don't care for anything else you are in the forest I will be in the forest

with you I'm sure bhat will take care of all of them because he sees that Shri Ram is weak he will always be his strength so to have that understanding that at what point do you have to be strong at what point do you object at what point do you just let go and just Be there yeah that is uh lakman wow super interesting super interesting now I'm going to to ask a few questions for my curiosity uh understanding ramayana and there's one which um I would like to to to ask you the first is

to to understand why did Rama accept it to go to the to to the Exile yeah what's the real reason I think this is one of the most profound parts of Raman unfortunately people just uh explain it as he was very devoted to His father M so uh sham says I agree with all that you're saying but you know this situation is a little more complicated or there is another way of looking at what is happening with me right now right he says when a situation like this emerges which is completely unexplainable coming out of

nowhere coming so suddenly I see I think that that this can only be the hand of Destiny in such situations it's better to not fight the Destiny and let the life open us or rather take us in the direction that it is meant to take us to wow because only then we will know what life had in store for us so in such situations it's best not to fight it accept it and see what is there in strofi Rodrigo this is such a Prof found thing because you look at the autobiog autobiographies or even stories

of a lot of successful people they all have gone through this in life right they would Have a goal they would work towards it they do everything in their capacity to do the right thing but out of nowhere out of nothing that they have done right situation emerges in a way that what they had in mind completely collapses all all their dreams go for a toss now how do you behave in that situation do you keep crying do you go jump off a building do you take resort to alcohol or do you say okay doesn't

matter I gave my best that is all I Could have done now if this is not meant to be doesn't matter maybe it's some other door that's open for me but I can only know if I look I seek and I don't keep fighting this I accept it and I say okay let me see where this goes let me see where life takes me maybe there is a bigger thing at stake there maybe there's a bigger goal for me which I don't know right now and we saw that is how it was for him but

for that ran wouldn't have been killed even though Ki Doesn't know any of it Ki is not trying to be nice to him so he goes and kills raanu that's not the thing right but how do you take such situations in your life whatever be the intention of everybody else but how do you make sense of these situations and he says that is why I believe this is the right thing to do at this point in time I see that my destiny is pushing me somewhere [Music] Wow well like then uh like what have you

learned about how to take the decisions in these moments then how to take de how to take decisions beautiful question so if you see Mah Andra I actually put this in a gray box because this is obviously the immediate next question come right exactly that do you just leave everything to Destiny right in fact lakman asks in that he says only cowards Leave things to Destiny what do you mean Destiny Destiny right Destiny can do anything will you don't act only then what to do so the answer of this is given in bhagat Gita by

Krishna oh wow so I actually bring in that schloka when I explaining the situations I put it the way I write is I've write these text is that I want to answer my own questions right so I had this question so how do you make sense of it and I got the answer in the Gita and Gita has answers For everything you just open a page and like ah this is what I was looking for so there is a very famous shoka of gaita which you might know it says which means you have the right

over your action you don't have the right over its fruits okay okay so don't try to think that you are only the doer of things but also do not be so indifferent that you don't act you have to act okay and you have the you have the right to decide What your action is but you cannot decide what the outcome of that I ask you now my next curiosity is the moment where um so we had uh um s was pregnant and uh and Rama uh uh asked her to go to the Exile even when

she already proved her Purity yes doesn't make sense correct why so um before even getting into the incident I have to tell you a little bit of background in terms of how Scholars view this incident okay uh this incident comes in the seventh section of Ram which is after SRI Ram coming back and getting coronated as the king and all that lot of scholars believe that this whole section is is not a part of Raman and it has been added much later when the Norms of the societies had become probably a lot more rigid this

is what one section of scholars believe so you should know this controversy okay what did I do like when I because I am in no way um I don't think I'm qualified enough to Say this way or that way okay So eventually it goes to what what do you want to believe okay so when I was writing ramay and ra i i very clearly said that those who believe that this is not a part of ramayan per se composed by valmiki G don't read this part I'm going to separate it out as an epilog okay

okay if till 6 it's all main story and everything for these specific incidents which are from utaran which I believe need to be studied and Understood because I I personally believe there is a lesson in that too okay but if somebody doesn't want to believe that fine no problem you can exclude it but for others who believe this is there I think we don't have to get so judgmental or defensive and I'm not going to even use time here that oh then versus now the way I understood this incident is a little differently okay and

I believe that if sh if such a situ had Actually happened SRI Ram would have probably done this maybe in a more sensitive way I don't know but he would have asked sitar to go now why do I say this now for that again I have to explain the story as waliki utar kand has okay General understanding of the story comes from folklore narration where it is said that oh a washer man basically raised finger on saa's character and just because one washer man raised satha sham was like cut I'm Leaving you that's not how

it happened sham was sitting in his um Chambers with all his ministers and um there is always this thing which the Kings at that time had was the Spy Network these spies could be anything they could be uh uh performers anybody okay so he had some of these performers who would keep him informed about what all is going on in the state so one day they were all sitting and Shri was asking them that are the people happy what are they Talking about is there any concern about me my family lakshman bhat is everybody happy

with all the work happening all of that so this guy bhadra his name is he says yeah it's all fine they're very happy all that and he suddenly goes silent so sham feels that there something wrong here so he says no you tell me I'm not going to punish you tell me what's the truth so bhadra looks down and he says sham there's just one thing there is a lot of Um uh upad if I me there's a lot of rumor widespread rumor about SI G's character in the state and people are saying that or

rather you taking her back from Lanka is being SE seen as the right to violate the boundaries of a conjugal relation okay so a lot of people people he says women basically are just flouting their boundaries and using this as an example to say that see Shri had no issue that his wife went and lived with some other Man so why is it a problem here if the Raja can take her back why are people questioning us something of that sort so it was basically leading to violation of boundaries in a conjugal relationship so SRI

is completely taken a back and he's like what are you even saying and he asks the other cers and they're like this is very true this is a very widespread notion in this state where every person every everybody is talking about this so sham is very very Upset after they go he calls lakshman and he's in tears and he says see lakshman I knew this is what will happen that is why I provoked satha to prove herself there because I knew people will question that is what people do but now they have and the only

way for me is to leave her okay so he lets her go okay now as I said what is the purpose of ithas one is we can sit and judge but for me it's a case study what is a case study we learn lessons for our life now How do we learn lessons from our life only if we can understand that situation and only if we can put ourselves in that position okay this is not a normal couple this is a king sit G is also not a normal lady she's a queen just like the

king is responsible to the citizens a queen is also responsible to the citizens right it is not just one way and it is a responsibility of the queen to see to it that the king can fulfill his Responsibility towards the society or the citizens that he has so if we put ourselves in the shoes of Shri and then we say okay what are the options available now this has happened this is happening okay so what are the options available one I can say I just ignore they can say whatever they want I don't give a

damn okay I know my wife is right people can say what they want exactly now see what would happened There do you think we would talk about SI the way we do right now because we would have taken what the people are thinking right that she was wrong whatever be the situation in their head she is wrong AGN par all doesn't matter so the notion would have stayed today we have benefit of the behavior of sham but I'll come to that or they would have said see the king doesn't even care he's doing what he's

doing somebody would have thought that how do how this is Diluting the value system in the society right and the king is not even bothered will the Citizens Trust a king like that right okay the second would be okay fine you don't trust my wife I trust her I am leaving with her I do not want to be your king because you don't have faith in me yeah right you don't have faith in me you don't have faith in my wife fine I give up my kingdom and I'm going away with her that could have

been the other option again think of it What people would have said that would the the stigma with sa would still have been there because people were thinking that right he's done nothing to clear it he's only saying I trust her I'm also going with her what would it do in addition look at this person we waited for him all these years but how did he turn out exactly like his father yeah right his father also chose the wife over doing the right thing he must have promised her and all that fine But he promised

to us as well that sham will be a king but he chose his wife he chose the lust over doing the right thing he's also doing the same thing he's choosing his personal life over us okay now even today if we what do we expect from our leaders do we expect them to choose their family or us yeah we always expect that oh a Leader's life is public the person has to because we made them leaders right they have to look after us Before they look after their own children right all that we say he

actually did that no by going away he would have just relinquished his responsibility and be like how whatever I like my personal life is more important okay third he did what he did now people may say but he was the Raja he was unfair to siah mhm he still did the wrong thing exactly right okay then should he have called a court and made SAA prove herself again would that have Been the right thing to do imagine putting a pregnant lady through that kind of stress MH having to face an extreme L hostile public which

was very much hostile at that point in time was that the right thing to do would have had would that have helped SAA in anyway she had already done that in Lanka if that was not enough why would this have been enough right it was just taking her word for it right the other was tell people okay you don't believe it Fine I will do what you want me to do because also SI is responsible that right it's it is her responsibility also live up to the expectations of the people so if the people lose

faith in her she being right or wrong doesn't even matter right a leader might be right or wrong but if the people lose faith in the leader the leader has to go right otherwise the revols and everything happen but anyways so she also had to live up to the respons to to What the people wanted so anyway so he lets her go but he does something very very interesting at that time his father had three wives probably even more at that time not even at that time till much later in the society and especially in

the royal families the Kings had multiple wives right people just assume that he was supposed to only have one wife no there was no such thing binding on him in fact kings were uh encouraged To have more wives for strategic reasons for geopolitical reasons was anyone stopping Shri Ram from marrying again in fact for a lot of the uh Rel religious rituals it is important for the couple to do it together right he could have very well married again why doesn't he and what is he saying by not marrying again he's saying the you people

for my Raj Dharma as a king as a Leader you all my citizens will always be my priority I will do what makes you happy that is the Raj Dharma applies on SAA also even if it comes at the cost of my personal happiness I will put you before my personal happiness oh wow however that doesn't make satha wrong and that doesn't mean I stop loving her if there is anyone in this world who will always be my wife if There is anyone in the world who I will always love it is her and by

showing that in action not wor in action he made a point about how pure and clean and chased she is and today we accept her that way it is because of the statement made by his action by Shri Ram also for me I mean coming from outside India I would love you to help me to understand uh which is the the the part of the an par um and to understand one Is to to understand what it represents but also U through the lens of the the the the the the the situation of women today

in India okay so again I would say it is not only India specific there is a saying I think it said the Caesar's wife has to be Beyond doubt this a Greek saying right what do you mean Caesar's wife King yeah the king's wife can should be Beyond any suspicion or doubt oh I see that's what they say yeah because otherwise that is The weakest point in the king's armor to bring the king down so the uh the character of The King and his closest family which is basically his wife should be such which we

should be blemishless basically I think that is what the quote says anyways but so everywhere this has been the thing it is not an Indian thing okay but uh the Agni parika what does it mean right uh I'll answer this in two stages AG parika the the symbolic significance of It Agni is considered as the medium between humans and Dees and gods in the Indian uh worldview okay from the Vic times we used to do a lot of these fire rituals and everything the point was that you offer something to the AG which is then

used which basically is transferred to the gods which is taken to the gods that's how how it is and Agni is considered the ultimate purifier that is why after death also we cremate right we don't bury we create so it's Called the ultimate purifier ultimate purifier in the sense that it purifies everything and it knows everything so when somebody um takes a wow in front of Agy you are supposed to you cannot lie okay like today outside they'll take a wow on the Bible which is binding right which is symbolically binding but it is a

part of your belief that if somebody takes a vow in front of over Bible they will not lie they cannot lie right that was or Even more was the significance of the AG that is why if you see the weddings which are ever binding so to say they are over AG where they say okay we both will be friends for life we'll be partners for life so that is the significance of AG so the AG parika is keeping AG as the witness and making a statement about your character yeah the way it has been shown

there as she enters it okay but I think it is more about using Agy as a witness to prove That she has always loved only shiram and nobody else that's what it means now why was that important because no one knew what had happened how it had happened nobody except jayu who had then passed away knew if SI G went by herself to raan or she was forced into it was she living there happily who had seen that she was upset there only Hanuman yeah right and only ran knew what about the people nobody knew

could they have thought that She must have gone by herself today we know everything because we have we know the entire story in its entirety right but for people in aodha at that point in time how are they to believe that s went on her own or rather she did not go on her own she was forged into it they were living in a jungle who knows what happened right AA now there's another thing when Hanuman goes to hanumanji goes to Lanka and he figures out where She is he tells her you come back with

me okay so that you don't have to go through any more pain and you will see SRI Ram immediately you don't have to wait for them to come and all that she says no I will not come she says first of all how will you take me it's so far away you are so small how will you carry me he says he says don't worry I can I'll carry you I'm big enough to carry you so she says okay fine even if you carry Me there's one thing because of which I cannot come I will

not come with you because if you rescue me the whole world is going to look down upon my husband that he couldn't take care of his wife he couldn't even rescue her and that is not acceptable to me you get the credit of rescuing me right so this is this is what she says okay I I'll come back to this part after explaining the part that I was talking yeah because this I also I was curious About this what you just shared yeah so she doesn't come back with him now this whatever happens between them

can people have thought that oh she didn't want to come back yeah right even if Hanuman G says whatever what is the proof only they two right it's her word versus my word or I can say ah Hanuman is just making it up maybe she didn't want to come back only she was happily living with ravan he was a very very strong and very his his kingdom was very prosperous Right they had lots of riches yeah so probably she liked it there who is to say she didn't even come back now if I am just

a normal ordinary person I can think all of it that maybe she went on her own and maybe she didn't want to come back who knows right so this question is actually not completely unfounded for somebody to have this doubt yeah it takes a Visionary like Ram to sense is because now he knows that we are going to go Back he never has a doubt he doesn't have even an iota of doubt about her character she he knows SAA the others don't right yeah yeah yeah so when he finally he goes all the way to

rescue her finally ran is killed finally she comes and I told you how his situation was when satha was away right he was like a madman missing her every second that was his situation so can anybody question his love for satha absolutely not even what satha went through in in Ran's Lanka she gave up eating everything just because of her love for Sri and she she did not accept any of the riches so both of them know completely how much they love each other but the others don't yeah so um when she comes now it's

almost the end of the 14 years of their uh Exile right and at that point again what I was telling you about emotions not overpowering the right thing to do at that point he could have just hugged her Told her wow I've missed you so much nothing at that point he realized that I'm going to go back soon I see and when I go back I'm not going back as a husband of SAA that is there but I'm going back as the king of aodha and what are the people going to think they will qu

obviously question her character they don't know they will question her character but I don't want anybody questioning the character of my wife exactly what Sith said to hanumana Now that I don't want anybody questioning the character of my husband if that means I have to stay here and take more pain I can do that same thing if people think I did the right thing wrong thing I don't care but I know people are going to question her character not acceptable to me so he provokes her to prove herself and she is the one who actually

says fine you don't trust me I'm going to prove it through the AG parika okay now when the AGN pra Happens and everybody says that haha no no she's pure and she's right and all of that you know what ramj says sham says sham says oh I have always known that I have always known she's pure I had not an iota of Doubt yeah he says but for the sake of the people for the because people need to know what I know for the sake of the people I did not stop her from proving herself

oh I see he says it was beyond it was beyond ran to violate her She's that tese he had what was he had no sture to even touch her I know that and nobody can take satha away from me she is like the light the aura around the Sun you can't take the aura from the Sun you can't separate the do they're always together super good we're coming to the end and U maybe you can just help us like from your perspective what are the the the three main lessons from rayana that we can apply

in our life so the First one is the first one comes from the the the discussion the the conversation I it was from bagita pretty much that it is actually connected right it's connected that do what you need to do and then accept what comes but how do you do what you need to do to the best of your abilities no compromises made there but then if things are not what you think they are it doesn't necessarily mean it's a failure it only means there is some other direction you Have to look in right so

let life have happen to you don't try to control everything let life happen to you be happy so that's one second is never forget what you represent and what you are be a brother be a husband be a wife but also socially what is it that you represent and what is at stake because of your decisions the third is feel every emotion live your life all those feelings are very important but when it comes to making a decision don't let Your emotions your biases Cloud your brain wow learn to separate the two and do what

you must do that makes you happy internally not the physically sensually happy no that which allows you to sleep well at night that was such a great way to end our conversation I mean I I loved it and thank you so much for I mean I feel grateful for this opportunity that you gave me to go deeper into an important text as the ramayana and I learned a lot Today and it was such a pleasure to have this conversation with you thank you so much J sham sham