Does Microstrategy Own Too Much Bitcoin? | Anthony & Polina Pompliano

what's going on guys today we've got an awesome episode with Pina Pano she's the editor at the profile we talk about does Micro strategy own too much Bitcoin they now have 2% of the supply and should we be concerned about that and what can you do at home we then get into the Daniel peny case we talk about some politics we also get through what is going on with the United Healthcare CEO and the shooter and then we talk about asset prices and the general Vibe shift that's happening on a national scale this conversation unpacks

a lot and it tries to make sense of what's going on in the world both in financial markets and in society at Large hope you guys enjoy it here's the latest conversation with Pina Pompano all right Pina what's the first topic micro strategy just bought another 2.1 billion dollar in Bitcoin while its combination of equity and fixed income security sales to finance this purchase uh is drawing increased scrutiny I want to talk about both but one more stat for the people micro strategy holds 42 billion dollar of Bitcoin which is 2% of the entire network

is that too much don't hate the play or hate the game if you think about what he's doing is Bitcoin has a lot of paradoxes in it right it's supposed to be an electronic peer-to-peer Cash System and so what that means is that there's Democratic ownership uh it's accessible to anyone with an internet connection and you should be allowed to uh buy as much as you want that is part of a free market and a democratic system uh with that said um it goes against the ethos of Bitcoin for anyone to own an outsized portion

of it right the whole idea is that you want everyone to own does anybody own more than 2% um well the ETFs the ETFs have more uh Satoshi has more so there are some you know kind of uh honey pots of Bitcoin what I think is interesting about this is again there's there's a lot of paradoxes in in this question uh and the answer is not as clear as people want it to be so Bitcoin is supposed to be democratized ownership and decentralized uh ownership no matter how much Bitcoin you own you don't control more

the network there's no special power promoting a lot of Bitcoin so whether you own one Bitcoin or you own 423,000 Bitcoin you get to use the Bitcoin Network the same way everybody else gets to use it with that said it definitely goes against the ethos of Bitcoin for somebody to own a lot a lot of it now it's a free market everyone should be able to buy whatever they want to buy and so uh I think a lot of bitcoiners are saying to themselves hey it's his right to go and buy as much as he

can buy uh it's his self-interest to do that but I don't love the fact that some owns more than 2% I don't love the fact that he's probably going to own more than 2% cuz he's going to keep buying but hate that's the game so don't hate the player hate the game now what I do think is also another Fair Point is uh somebody wrote to me and they said yeah but Micro strategy is owned by shareholders and so there is some democratized ownership of the company which then owns the Bitcoin similar to how Black

Rock has I think it's something like 500,000 Bitcoin in their fund but that fund is then owned by a bunch of individuals and organizations Etc and so it's just not black and white and so the question shouldn't be does he own too much it just is a thing he owns 2% he's probably going to own more instead what I think people should be focused on are things that they can control if you don't like Michael sailor owning 2% go buy more go try to compete and ultimately I think that's what the Bitcoin system does is

it incentivizes people to compete rather than complain which is obviously a much better system so this is the fifth consecutive week that he has bought Bitcoin in a large amount um just remind the people how is he getting billions of dollars to buy he's raising it he's raising debt and Equity he's selling shares on his company to get money to buy Bitcoin and he's raising debt he's issuing convertible notes and he's raising that capital is there a world in which things go down for Bitcoin as a result I don't know the exact man it sounds

awesome to talk about like risky things with a voice like this right now just sounds kind of like you know extra scary um if you think about how much Bitcoin he owns I I think the number is somewhere around 40 billion 45 billion 42 billion okay so he's got 42 billion uh I believe that uh he has seven or eight billion dollar of debt but let's just say it's 10 billion uh of debt and 40 billion of Bitcoin easy numbers I got a small brain so if you own $40 billion of Bitcoin and you you

have $10 billion of debt people are worried that oh my God he's taking on too much debt Bitcoin would have to draw down 75% and then if after the 75% draw down he sold all the Bitcoin he could pay off all the debt got it so there's this like margin of error in terms of how much the Bitcoin is worth versus what the debt is now has Bitcoin drawn down 75% before absolutely but I think what would end up happening is as the price was drawing down he would be buying more and so it's very

hard to see a world where uh he owes back money and doesn't have enough Bitcoin on the balance sheet to pay back the debt now that doesn't necessarily address the equity in the company and that's a whole different kind of discussion and argument around the multiple of which he has because the company's worth more than the $40 billion of Bitcoin that's sitting on the balance sheet so he should get some credit for the software company but maybe that's a billion dollars and then he's got 40 billion of Bitcoin or 42 billion of Bitcoin so let's

just say it's like 43 44 billion dollar of quote unquote Book value for all the value investor nerds out there uh but it's trading at something like 90 billion uh in market cap I think or maybe $100 billion whatever it is say and so people are asking themselves why is the company trading so much higher market cap than the Bitcoin plus the software company and really that comes down to there's a premium on the Bitcoin um and then really what I think most people are missing in this is the market is assigning some sort of

multiple on his ability to continue to raise capital and buy more Bitcoin so they're saying well if he can keep doing this and he's doing it to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars per day well that looks a lot like Revenue it's just that through the traditional accounting metrics you can't count it as Revenue because it's not booked from a a customer yeah but if it ends up on your balance sheet it looks like revenue and so what he's doing is he's continuing to acquire more and more Bitcoin they're giving him some sort

of multiple for that the question is we're in Uncharted Territory what is the multiple is the multiple too high is it too low to like like there's a lot of questions here and so what I think a lot of sophisticated investors are doing is they're throwing up their hands and they're saying I can't figure this out this is too new there's too many kind of there's too much smoke here there must be a fire and so uh I'm not going to participate now I say that but then you go and you look at the cap

table and again with the paradoxes of this whole thing is like Black Rock and Fidelity and like all these comp you know they all own a lot of uh micro strategy that doesn't mean it's not risky it it doesn't mean that it's not risky but just saying that uh on one hand you have a lot of smart people who are like hey I'm not going to participate on the other hand you got a lot of smart people who are saying I am going to participate and so uh this is what makes markets this is why

it's so controversial is people are betting on both sides uh so far the people who have bought micr strategy stock and Ben long have been right now are they always going to be right we don't know we're going to find out but um I think that you you can't just simply say uh a company is involved with Bitcoin they must be good or they must be bad but I think that's really the discourse right now online is people are basically using micro strategy as a proxy for Bitcoin and so uh my argument is just do

extra work right it it there there's more to it than just a proxy for Bitcoin um and so if you don't like Bitcoin go and understand what he's doing and figure out whether you agree with it or not if you like Bitcoin you still go look what he's doing and see if you agree with it or not and make sure you don't just make the kind of simple analogy of oh if he's involved with Bitcoin it must be good or bad right and also I mean no nobody talks about this but they should there's keyman

risk Michael saor yeah is the CEO and founder of this company but what if one day he's not well he's not the CEO anymore he stepped down he became the chairman yeah and uh I I do ask people all the time you know when when people say uh there's no risk I always say well who's CEO and they can't name the CEO and I say okay I literally don't know who the CEO of micro strategy so the the point being that um Michael sailor has been one of the best uh kind of promoters of Bitcoin

micro strategy Etc uh it's no different than you know take us Steve Jobs and apple right like Steve Jobs was Apple and there was a lot of a vacuum of value when Steve Jobs died right so Michael sailor he's relatively young guy um he seems healthy all you know all those kinds of things but there's always keyman risk right that there there's all kinds of stuff that could happen and so um I just think that people who keep saying there's no risk again I'm not saying that there is obvious risk I'm just saying that when

you say there's no risk in something yeah that is usually not a good uh not a good scenario okay um off of that there's been a crypto Vibe shift there's a national Vibe shift a national Vibe shift but specifically there's you know in crypto markets um Donald Trump has appointed former PayPal Chief Operating Officer David Sachs as his White House Ai and crypto are it's so funny I don't know these titles um another step towards overhauling US policy saaks will guide the administration's policies for AI and cryptocurrency some of that work includes creating a legal

framework for crypto as well as leading a presidential Council of advisers on Science and Technology you know David right I do you have interviewed him I did and you have spoken to him privately I did okay um what do we think about sax being a David Sachs is the icing on the cake of silicon 's infiltration of Washington DC Washington DC they thought they were the big brother and that they were going to beat up on little brother Silicon Valley and they've been coming at them over and over and over and over again they overregulation

it's like Peter heal's entire ecosystem has now successfully penetrated Washington DC and they're in charge it's like the meme you know the I'm the captain now yeah that's what's happened so if you go and you look JD Vance is the vice president of the United States David Sachs is the AI and crypto are Elon Musk is basically like the consigli a to the president and he's everywhere right you just go through all this stuff and you realize wait v ramaswami he's running Doge all of these people teal invested in them they were in the orbit

they were at PayPal all Etc and so what I think has happened is that we have very intelligent people who have been hyper successful if you look at the cabinet it's the most number of billionaires that's ever been in a cabinet I was goingon to say this is I think another reason for the vibe shift is normally um these billionaires you know people in the private markets are are normally like oh I can have more control and more influence outside of politics but that's shifted n let me let me I'm going to give a uh

an example that people may not like but it's the truth and that's what I I'm going to just say it Miami is full of a lot of fake money and in 2021 real money showed up okay all of the billionaires Etc showed up to Miami and a lot of the like flexing of rented cars and fake watches and all that it kind of scattered into the corners it's like somebody flipped on a light and the Rats scatter that's what happened because because what ends up happening is all the flaunting and flexing and all this stuff

right not the true miamians it's like the people who come they're like you know they they like come to there because they think that's what is cool and they all start flexing on each other and it's all for like Instagram yeah when the real money showed up all of a sudden those people feel inferior if you pretend to be rich and you sit next to a real billionaire it's like dude shut like it's just obvious right that's what's happening in Washington DC is there's real intelligence There's real value creation these people have been successful at

many things they've done in their life they never cared about politics but now they care and so it's like they've turned their attention and they said you guys are up you guys are wasting money you're creating this huge bureaucracy you guys are absolutely decimating our country our society and our economy we're coming to fix it and usually Washington DC could sit there and say oh my God the tech people they are so arrogant they think they can fix this look at how evil they are they're billionaires blah blah blah blah blah blah whatever the American

people just gave a mandate to the tech industry to go and fix this because Donald Trump won the popular vote and so when you think about that you say wait a second what if everything goes right and they actually can fix it do you think that El musk can run the DMV better than it's being run right now the immigration process ju just pick anything in the government I bet you that the private sector successful Business Leaders can run it better and if you don't believe me why is paler so successful I just think all

the bureaucracy is harder to get rid of than we think unless you fire everybody still it's it's a machine that's so entrenched in unless you fire everybody um wait you want to know what what's actually going to kill the bureaucracy what it has nothing to do with the people who are there it's the culture yeah I I I keep saying it and I I don't want to use names but like I am shocked I I had breakfast this morning with a guy who uh worked at a hedge fund super successful went to a very very

well-known school um incredibly intelligent said to me that uh yeah he's like I'm surprised how many of my friends don't work hard I said well how many hours a day do you work he said I don't like 12 14 hours right like this guy's like super just hard charging very successful somebody that I would love to come and work at one of our businesses and I said well what are you going to do next cuz he just left a very well-known Investor's uh family office he said I want to go work in the administration that

kid should never ever want to work in the government until now cuz guess what the same people who want to go work at SpaceX and Tesla and boring company neurolink Etc they now are like well maybe I can just go work at Doge and go take a sledgehammer and destroy all this bureaucracy so I think doge is going to become a very high status thing if you can put that on your resume that's going to be like you went to you know Stanford in the 90s or you went to uh work at Uber in the

early days or whatever and people are going to say oh you must be smart and so what does that do that pulls in the smart people and so I just think that people are drastically underestimating what is possible when you bring people who are very focused who are very enthusiastic and who are used to getting things done um I also think that it's interesting especially for Trump and that in the whole Administration how JD Vance used to be very critical of trump he's now the VP Sachs used to not that long ago was very critical

of trump if you remember in the all-in podcast um after January 6th uh David Sach said that Trump was Trump was clearly responsible for the events of January 6th and that he had disqualified himself from being a candidate at a national level and now he like held a fundraiser for Trump two months ago I I think that there's um a lot of change that has happened in the last four years but definitely over the last eight years and so um why I've talked well I've talked to a number of different people and um a few

people have said to me hey I knew Trump before he was president I spent some time with him when he was the president the first time I've never seen him this locked in focused and serious about this right so let's just say that um nobody's perfect but there's an element of like imagine you do a job then you get a second chance at doing the job yeah most people who aren't idiots would say I'm better prepared to do the job the second time and so what I think happened the first time in my kind of

uh analysis and talking to a lot of these different people is that the Trump Administration today believes that Trump did not think he was going to win in 2016 when he won it was basically chaos and they were like oh shoot we got to put all these people in these different positions well who do we get and all these names started getting thrown at them from The Establishment and so he just started picking the people that the establishment was telling him were the right people he end up firing most of those people and so if

that is true then if you look now there's very few establishment people that he's picking RFK is in charge of Health Kos Patel is going to be in charge of the FBI Tulsi gabber right I mean just go down the line you're like there's no establishment players do you know why I'm so worried though why I'm so worried because of the size of the egos of these people all working together if you think these people have egos wait till you meet politicians and government officials of you ever been at the TSA walking through the airport

I never seen someone puff their chest out so much to tell me to take my computer out of my bag or to tell ask me six times whe I took everything out of my pocket well did you no disrespect to the TSA I like you guys we're cool chill I don't need the secondary search but I'm just saying if you think about it it's human nature if you're put in a position of power that there's ego to it right you ever you want to know another that's crazy American Airlines we can go off on them

too because they just changed the rules now if you got a roller bag and you have a garment bag the garment bag counts as a second roller bag as it should what are you talking about you get two bags they're like no you get a personal bag isn't that a personal bag no see now here we go how crazy is this on for my entire life you could easily bring a roller bag and a garment bag and now these bureaucrats change all right so back to the billionaires and their ego how are you going to

have people try to get on the plane and you tell them this literally happened to me recently but this no this is serious this is just becoming a grievances this is serious go on go on get it out this is I I just want to highlight this like I was standing here I was standing there in this moment and I said to myself this is a perfect example of how stupid our economy and Country become he called me in the moment I was so mad and he goes I see a woman with a dog let

me let me explain let me explain so it's 6 o'clock in the morning I'm Waking my ass up to go to the airport to go on this plane I'mma fly somewhere I'm going to go to one lunch and I'm GNA fly back the same day personal choice already well cuz I love my family and I want to spend time with them so I I'm going to go do this right I'm there there's a bunch other people there's only two people at 6 o'clock in the morning that are on planes there's families where the parents look

like they're ready to jump off the building because their kids are acting crazy at six o'clock in the morning and then there's business people who are you know flying for stuff yeah so there's a line of all the business people we got our roller bags and then we got our gar bag don't ask me why I got a roller bag just for one day whatever uh so I'm in line I'm the second guy in line first guy goes they say Hey sir uh to the guy in front of me Hey sir you can't bring the

garment bag on you have two bags he says what and they say yes you that's is considered a second bag and he says what so I'm like ah that guy must have done something stupid go they tell me the same thing there's like six people in a row they say this to and now they all got us pulled over like we're like speeding or something they got us pulled over to the side your and they want us to fold up the garment bags put them into the roller bag go down the little jetway and then

we can take it out yeah so it's like it's it's like a like a stupid same with me with my no no it's stupid okay while I am doing this while I have the bag down I'm unzipping it putting it in whatever again it it's not the end of the world but it's just it's dumb right it's like a bureaucratic stupid thing I I swear to you I saw a woman who is like four or five people behind me walk onto the plane she got a roller bag she got a back pack and then she's

got like a a a what do they call like a like a satel a satchel thing but in the Satchel is a dog and I'm like wait a minute that woman has three bags and a pet and I can't bring a roller bag and a garment bag on the plane guys just so you have context for me I'm on the other side of this phone call and all I hear is there making me shove my bag and that woman has a dog and I'm like what is happening at the airport so my point is it's

like like the country for the last four or five years just divulged into stupidity think about what has to happen for a rule to get created that generally the business people fly the most often they're probably responsible for a very material percent of your Revenue the garment bags are not the thing that's taking up size in the in the plane for you to change the rules and do this type of stuff is just bureaucratic nonsense there's no common sense whatsoever and so I use that as an example because if you bring it all the way

back to the government that's in a private company what do you think is going on inside of these government organizations yeah there is nonsense you ever gone to the DMV and as you go through the process say to yourself this makes no sense um yeah it's like the entire experience makes no sense wait this is this has been the case all US Airlines count a garment bag as a carry-on and not as a personal item this is back in like 2019 no that's never been the case I don't know the people in the comments tell

us if that's never been the case I don't know crazy cuz I asked a woman after the it happened a third time by the way this is like now they're like enforcing this or whatever so I asked the woman I said Hey listen I I the last two times I flew this happened can you explain to me did something change and she said uh uh she said yeah it's a new thing really yeah so American Airlines I listen I always been promoting I always say I like you guys I even still liked you when you

took the TVs out of the headrest the TVs that's all right but listen the Garment B y'all going to lose me um so back to the egos you don't think that so many billionaires in one room or everybody has such strong opinions such strong I I know but like do you not it's better to have billionaires who all have strong opinions and trying to get done than a bunch of NPCs who are hiding behind the blob and not getting anything done what is an NPC do I know that it's like you know in the video

game the the people who No One controls they just kind of move around ah you didn't know what an NPC man I don't know I don't play video games let's move on let's move on let's go to the next one video games let's go to the next one anyway all right speaking of nonsense yeah you going to get a lot of you're going to get heat for that one NPC non-person what non-player character non-player character all right go ahead what's the next topic God you called me an NPC no oh okay today's episode is brought

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today non-player charact I I'll think of that okay so Moren veteran Daniel Penny was acquitted by a Manhattan jury Monday in the death of Jordan Neely jurors cleared penny 26-year-old long Islander of criminally negligent homicide after the caught on camera fatal encounter on an uptown F train last year hero um yeah hero and the thing is that I think more and more people are coming out and saying that how on Earth did we try this man for something that is so blatantly and obviously like he did the right thing and it was not racially motivated

or politically motivated or or any like I I think that Daniel Penny would have done that no matter who was you know acting my uh my prediction my prediction is uh the United States is going to go back to Old School uh ethos we're gonna bring back hard work we're going to bring back respectfulness we're going to bring back uh the fact that if you go somewhere imagine if you went somewhere in Texas and you walked into a bar and you started saying I'm going to kill you you get your ass whooped but for some

reason people are like oh if it's on the subway in New York you can say whatever you want right so what's going to end up happening here is that people who have a proclivity to act this way are going to start to realize wait a minute that's not appropriate now it's a very delicate situation because a guy died and no one deserves to die yeah but what came out in the trial which I paid very close attention to is that the story that was told by the mainstream media is not the truth what actually happened

is that Daniel Penney did not choke this man out and kill him instead what happened is Daniel peny restrained him had him in a choke hold when the police arrived he was breathing and they did not want to give him mouth to mouth cuz they were scared they're going to get HIV which is if you think of the definition of a hero if the police show up to a scene and they don't want to involve themselves because they're because they're scared yeah imagine the self-sacrifice and courage that takes for a civilian to do it the

people on the train are thanking Daniel penny for protecting them right after the situation but then this guy dies and it comes out in trial that he had a bunch of uh K2 like the synthetic marijuana stuff he had a bunch of medical history stuff all these different things that they think actually led to him ultimately dying and so again it it's very sad I don't think anyone you know wants to see somebody die Etc but what the media said was it you it made it sound like Daniel peny was sitting there choking him until

literally he didn't breathe anymore and he killed him you know with his bare hands got up and like cheered about it yeah and not what happened and so my point all along has been uh Daniel peny acted heroically on that Subway but the unspoken hero of the story is the jury because there's a lot of pressure to just go with the charade and say well you know they're charging this guy it's just easier just say yeah just yeah he's guilty uh Court of public opinion blah blah whatever and the jury was mostly women and uhen

women women don't want to live in a society where uh people have a green light to go on the subway and threaten women and children that's crazy that's insane right so the headlines were Daniel Penny you know kills man on subway why isn't the headline Daniel peny heroically saves women and children on subway I think same story whole different perspective I think that the narratives of yester year are kind of gone and now people are more back to like Common Sense even I was looking at Twitter and um you know some of the tweets that

were like I can't believe Daniel penny has acquitted and all this stuff the responses just show that the sentiment is not shift shocking Vibe shift because ultimately what what people I think realize is hold on a second if you start to implement these crazy policies you are going to inch your way towards a society you don't want to live in so it's all fun in games when you're yelling and screaming about something that doesn't impact you but yeah I said it I said listen if you and our children were on a subway car yeah and

some guy gets on there and starts saying I'm G to kill people I pray that there's a man on there with enough courage and balls to knock him the out right because at the end of the day what are you going to do you're gonna let him actually do something yeah not fun fact one time very very early on Anthony and I were had just met so this maybe was like our second or third date I don't know I don't know what story you're about to tell what no no no go ahead just go ahead

tell story I'm proud of everything I ever did no this is not like that but we were in a nice Italian restaurant oh yeah I know this story hell yeah minding our own damn business it's crazy and so I'm sitting here Anthony's facing me and I'm I can see the door so he back to the door from yeah since then he always has to face the door no I always was like that I just being nice to the lady let her sit in the lady seat interesting okay well I was in the lady seat and

that is that's the lady seat in the bench stop it so then um we just hear commotion then I turn and I see a table flip I see glass shatter everywhere like what is going on people are fighting on tables woman KN there's a there's a uh hold on a second hold on the there is a guy who's in the restaurant like a like a patron who is fighting the general manager and they and they're going to the ground and and the table flips over Etc and what I quickly realize is that the waitress runs

around from behind the bar and she grabs a knife off the table and she is going to stab the general manager it was crazy and it quickly I realized that the patron is her father well you didn't realize I think we learned that no no no yelling at each other and she's yelling dad Etc whatever and so all this is happening and people in New York they're just eating they don't even they literally don't even stop the people next to us kept eating their salads and I was like guys there's a fight going on so

I get up and uh important to note without saying anything to me they they were starting to kind of separate a little bit the woman did not stab anyone she's like kind of pulling the guy whatever and so I get the dad and I just take him and I just like kind of put my arm around hey man let's go outside and we walk outside and he's hammered he's like drunk off his ass and so uh I say to him I said hey where do you live and he says some address I said all right

man I think you should go home and so uh I flagged down a cab uh I put him in the car and I say to the cab driver uh here's some money take this man home whatever he says just take him home and as they're driving away I hear the guy say nah I don't need to go home and so uh yeah sometimes you just you there you don't need to you don't need to intervene obviously if it's dangerous Etc but it's just like if you want to live in a society of uh that where

there's civilized people where uh You' be happy for your family to live in your kids to grow up and Etc uh it takes good people to always try to deescalate and help people Etc and so like who knows what's going on in that guy's life Maybe maybe he had a bad day maybe he lost his job maybe somebody got hurt what who knows yeah but he probably is not proud of the fact that at his daughter's work he's getting in a fist fight with her boss right shout out daughter who's ready to throw down for

pops but that's a whole different story right probably not you probably don't have a job for very long if you're grabbing a knife on your boss but it's just like again you know you don't need to get involved other than just hey man like just just take a deep breath just let's go outside right um and so uh yeah I don't know it's just like to look away and we've told the story before I'm not going to get into it again but like I thought that I was one of the people where I was like

if something happens I'm there I'm I'm inserting myself but like no you freeze when you don't know what's going on um when we were walking down the street there was a man in I save two people's life okay okay so this this guy probably actually but he was laying in the street he was non-responsive people thought that he had died um so I was like oh my God I can't I can't even look like I was so he had smashed his face it was bad um how you going to let a man just lay in

the middle of the street smash face my point is no not not you I'm saying all these people are standing around 16 people around him and nobody was doing anything crazy um and not he was and he was barely breathing and when we when we walked up on us I said what happened everyone says I don't know and nobody he was doing no one was calling the police nobody was doing they were all just staring at him like we're in a museum it was crazy it was insane and so it's like yo just hey are

you okay what happened whatever go get the police go you know what I mean try try to help somebody because I always think about if it was me in the situation would I want somebody to help me and to be honest I I haven't said this before but um I think that's why I tweeted about Daniel penny is because uh it was by the way it was really bothering Anthony for a long time that at me for like weeks yeah and I and I knew and I knew that most people probably thought the same thing

but it's just like is it worth it yeah is it worth actually talking about this thing and I think what I ultimately said to myself was if it was me who was sitting there on trial for something that I shouldn't be here for I hope people have you know the uh the wherewithal to speak up mhm and here's the crazy thing is when I tweeted that people saw the public reaction the private reaction was even crazier I had people I haven't talked to in years I had people who are highly successful uh that are in

the news every day like like just I had reporters I had producers at TV stations all these people reach out to me and say thank you for saying something and I'm sitting there thinking to myself how is it that me with like a little Twitter account saying saying something and all these people think the same thing but that's a society that we live in and so I think it's changing Vibe shift is happening that's good that's healthy um proud of you but there but there's a lot of I mean there's a lot of stuff now

here's the reverse the healthcare killer okay so let's talk about the healthcare killer this guy so y all lost your minds talking about this guy on the internet a CEO was shot in Cold Blood um in front of his hotel where he was going to do like an investor day um United Healthcare CEO killed uh straight up in the back crazy video insane um coward yeah and nobody they couldn't find this guy for five days nobody was calling in we had his face we had everything nothing nobody was saying who it was we now know

it's a 26-year-old Stanford Graduate Penn Penn sorry my God Stanford I'm sorry pen graduate um named Luigi mangioni um you want to know something funny about pen No I saw a great meme on the internet they had a they had Trump careful no they had Trump's mug shot and they had Luigi and they said the pen to prison pipeline is strong God well wait where was this a joke it's funny so here's my question so we have Luigi he has now been charged but no he has not been charged with the he's been charged did

he get charged today one 11 hours and 6es minutes ago one count of second degree murder how is that second degree murder listen I hold on before we get to all this first of all this is all this all alleged we'll figure out what's going on I mean he has been charged no no it's charged but I'm just saying got to go to court okay Court will determine whether you're guilty or not um but I want to specifically two things that I haven't heard people talk about the first today's episode is brought to you by

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if you got a problem with somebody going back to the old school way yeah you show up you would confront them to their face you guys may scrap a little bit you know punch each other whatever and you walk away it takes somebody with just absolute complete lack of like what it is to be a man to get a gun and to go Ambush somebody yeah and to execute them from behind yeah that you don't like the executing that's like some little just coward stuff right because it it goes back to if you're such a

tough guy that you think you know you're Justified whatever make it a fair fight right but that's not what this is about it's it's like something different and so um I just think like nobody is really talking about this element of like we've devolved into a society where like this person became judge jury and executioner yeah right versus a different way maybe they were had been handled you know decades ago that's first of all second of all this blew people's minds that it is a ivy league graduate that went to a $440,000 a year you

know High School all this stuff now I'm G to say something that uh I don't like making a lot of predictions but I did tell y'all Trump was gonna win by a landslide um and so I'm gonna go out on a limb oh God there's another vibe shift that's going to happen and it's a great Paradox of our society veterans who have PTSD Etc are reporting in large numbers the benefits of psychedelics micro doing micro doing uh iasa all this stuff they got real problems and they found a solution that can help them and it

was usually like a medical solution somewhere along the way a bunch of rich kids decided that they were going to start to use these to solve their invented problems Society is going to turn on all these medicines because what they're going to realize is which the science shows is that they can be triggering it's a small percentage of people but it can be triggering of course it can and can create these you know kind of uh uh uh manic episodes these like psychotic episodes Etc whatever if you're changing the chemistry of your brain alcohol weed

cocaine wait do you remember when the people made fun of me when I said marijuana yeah you cop um so I if uh if you think about this not a cop guys I do think that there's this like very interesting Paradox of psychedelics obviously are very valuable for a certain subset of the population but they may be incredibly dangerous for another subset of the population and do we actually know enough to be able to determine the difference I don't think so and I think with people with severe depression like things that are so severe that

it requires an intervention sure but I think the iosa trip became kind of like a oh what are you doing I'm going on a you know it's like look some people come back and they I can change my life and it was this amazing positive thing it's it's like anything right like some people are like hey I drink once a week and it helps me relax whatever and some people are like I'm an alcoholic right so like you you you can get multiple outcomes from this stuff but I just think that um if it's a

big if yeah if that played a part which is right now what one of the narratives is if it played a big part in uh somehow you know uh kind of changing the course of this kid's life that led to this thing huge change course in life I think that there's going to be a conversation about those specific medicine SL drugs uh that is currently not happening now with that said just just one thing thing before you move on um what do you think about like the Tim Ferris and Joe Rogan who are pretty big

advocates for this kind of stuff be because I think that again it goes back to um I I have friends I have very good friends yeah who are like hey look I've gone and done this and had this massive positive impact and so I think that people have been very hopeful that these drugs and and these medicines could have this like great impact but it doesn't come without risk and so I think that I'm not predicting that hey we're going to go to a society that like bans I actually think that's a risk in the

sense of if people all of a sudden are like oh the one out of a million you know bad situation we got to throw it all out right that that would be overreaction but I do think that there's now going to be a conversation about Hey listen there's positives and negatives there can be these one and whatever the odds are situations and so you know there's this like cohort of people and again we we're finding out a bunch of information but I think a lot about if I was born 10 years later yeah would I

be one of these guys who's running around doing psychedelics remote working air Quotes no one's actually working going on Retreats every in Bali Hawaii what's the place in Mexico oh ohaka ohaka like whatever right Anthony I don't know how to pronounce that word I don't but like there's this cohort of people who are like doing all that stuff I've seen it I I know some of these people some of them are great people of course some of them are psychopaths some of them have jumped off the deep end we know a few yeah and so

it's like again you you go back to you're like okay there is some percentage of people who do certain things doesn't affect them there's some percentage of people who don't the the guy that I had breakfast with this morning um he grew up in New York City mhm what was it like he said well it's a a very bifurcated outcome out of all my friends they're either hyper successful or they went to rehab right same city just very very different outcomes and so uh I think the same thing about U kind of this digital Nomad

you know kind of psychedelics like all this stuff and again it's a generalization because not everyone who does the digital Nomad thing is doing the Psychedelic whatever but like what I have seen so far is that there's a very bifurcated outcome either people are like I've never been happier in my life and this is amazing and that's a story that gets told on Instagram Etc or people go crazy yeah and and that bifurcated outcome is not the story that's being told my thing is that it usually kind of consumes your whole life once people go

down that path that's the only thing they talk about and it's not like Oh I'm a serious you know person with a startup and I do that on the side it's like that becomes the story with a side of and I work sometimes kind of like how do you know someone does CrossFit yeah they'll tell you or veganism or whatever how do you know someone's into Bitcoin they'll tell you how do you know someone's a vegan they'll tell you um how do you know someone's a digital Nomad they'll tell you let's talk briefly about the

conver the sentiment the vibe if you will online around this killing it's disgusting yeah right it's um there is no critical thinking left in a conversation like this um I think that there are number of people that I've seen who have said just absolutely vile disgusting things where they' basically celebrating uh the death of the CEO um and what I try to remind people is like this guy's a father of two kids if I understand correctly two boys like you know he's running a business that business uh they get some things right they get some

things wrong and people will always focus on the uh loud minority right who is upset but if I and I want to be careful I don't get the data wrong so I think that the number of claims that are um uh uh denied is something like 30% I don't know which all if that number is true United Healthcare you mean means that majority of them are approved right and so you look at these businesses you're like they provide tons of health care services and insurance to millions of Americans but if you don't do it for

100% of people there will always be someone who is upset disagrees whatever let's just let's just say it how it is just because you're upset that an industry is broken or bad or whatever does not give you the right to take somebody's life of course in Cold Blood well of course and if you celebrate it then you're only uh perpetuating a conversation um that again it's just vile and disgusting there are people with influence and power and followers who go on national television and say I like many of Americans felt Joy watching that video like

how stupid do you have to be to say something like that well lacking brain cells certain people are dumb but I think that um yeah I just I think there's another part of the story which is um if you want change if you want um some sort of uh uh you know Improvement compete Imagine The Story of a pen graduate who's a valid Victorian of his high school who got a master's in computer science and who took the time and energy to go and build the next great insurance company that took down the big bad

evil corporations yeah do you think that would have better impact 100% And so what I fear is that there is disdain um there is uh uh this upsetness disagreement whatever with something and if we become a society where we basically throw our hands up and say we can't do better then you resort to this but America was built in a way where compete use capitalism use economic incentives go build a better insurance company and you will put them out of business yeah and you will provide health insurance for tens of millions of Americans so it's

it's like um it's very short-sighted to pursue violence if what you really aspire to is to affect change and it's not going to be easy it's not going to be overnight but that story is not only one much more heroic but it is also much more impactful and so it kind of goes back to this game of like again if people are upset or whatever okay but it is the output the the action taken is wrong and so if people can't see that it's kind of crazy I think I think they just uh the memes

on the internet are more important than somebody's life to some people well we're going to figure out what uh uh if he actually did it or not well also why second degree I need to look into this it you a legal scholar it was clearly premeditated guys I know more about Luigi than I know about myself at this point so I'm just a reading all right that's all we got today all right guys see you next time